WEBVTT - Why Bill Shorten is quitting politics 0:00:01.280 --> 0:00:09.680 From Schwartz Media. I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven am. 0:00:09.720 --> 0:00:12.600 Bill Shorton has wanted to be the Prime minister since 0:00:12.640 --> 0:00:16.840 he was a teenager. Yesterday he finally gave up that ambition, 0:00:17.320 --> 0:00:22.200 announcing his resignation from politics. Shorten spent almost two decades 0:00:22.239 --> 0:00:25.960 in Parliament, rising to be Opposition leader and contesting two 0:00:25.960 --> 0:00:30.160 elections but never winning. As an architect of the National 0:00:30.160 --> 0:00:34.839 Disability Insurance Scheme, his legacy is significant, but his political 0:00:34.880 --> 0:00:39.400 failures have shaped the country in enduring ways too. Today 0:00:39.800 --> 0:00:43.280 Schwartz Media's editor in chief Eric Jensen on how Bill 0:00:43.320 --> 0:00:52.720 Shorton's career has changed Australia. It's Friday, September. 0:00:52.240 --> 0:01:03.639 Six, ladies and gentlemen. 0:01:04.120 --> 0:01:07.440 I've decided not to seek a seventh term in parliament. 0:01:08.560 --> 0:01:12.160 So Eric, as we talk Bill Shorton, former labor leader 0:01:12.200 --> 0:01:15.760 and ex union boss. He's just announced that he's leading politics. 0:01:15.800 --> 0:01:19.679 He'll retire early next year before the election. What do 0:01:19.720 --> 0:01:21.200 you think is behind this decision? 0:01:21.680 --> 0:01:25.240 I think one of the defining aspects of Bill Shorton 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:28.360 is the fact that since he was a teenager he 0:01:28.400 --> 0:01:30.440 has been walking up to people and telling them he 0:01:30.560 --> 0:01:33.039 was going to be Prime Minister of Australia. He was 0:01:33.040 --> 0:01:35.920 telling his teachers, he was telling his classmates, and he 0:01:36.000 --> 0:01:40.039 believed it to be inevitable. The realization that that is 0:01:40.080 --> 0:01:42.600 not true and that it is never going to happen 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:45.840 must be an absolutely shattering one. 0:01:46.680 --> 0:01:53.720 None of this would have been possible without the tremendous love, patience, 0:01:54.240 --> 0:01:58.520 support from Chloe, Rupert, Georgette and Clementine. 0:01:59.160 --> 0:02:02.160 On top of that, Shorten's talked in the past about 0:02:02.240 --> 0:02:06.120 the selfishness of politics and what politics causes you to 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:08.720 ask your families to do. I'm sure that's a factor 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:10.279 in this as well. 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:16.120 The sacrifices they've made. Chloe has been a tower of 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:20.120 love and strength, and I think she's shown more courage 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:22.280 than I dreamed would exist. 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:27.200 And he's going to an important job. He's going to 0:02:27.200 --> 0:02:31.160 be vice chancellor of the University of Canberra. I suspect 0:02:31.200 --> 0:02:35.040 he'll make probably a pretty substantial contribution to tertiary education. 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:39.680 Education is the modern means of taking someone from disadvantage 0:02:39.680 --> 0:02:42.720 to advantage in a way that no other method can, 0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:45.840 and universities have a critical role to play. 0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:48.959 It is a chance for him to make another meaningful 0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:51.440 contribution to life. And for all the things you can 0:02:51.440 --> 0:02:55.000 say about Shorten, he is genuine in his desire to 0:02:56.040 --> 0:02:58.720 give service, to do things for the country, and I 0:02:58.720 --> 0:03:01.840 guess maybe it's a sad but he's realized that there's 0:03:01.840 --> 0:03:04.079 not much more he can do in politics because it's 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:05.400 not going to go the way he wants. 0:03:06.400 --> 0:03:10.080 And of course Anthony Albanezi took over from Shorten after 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:14.160 he failed to become Prime minister in twenty nineteen. What 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:17.400 is their relationship like and to what extent do you 0:03:17.400 --> 0:03:20.560 think that any tension there might have played into this decision. 0:03:21.480 --> 0:03:24.600 There's no tenderness in that relationship. There from different sides 0:03:24.600 --> 0:03:26.600 of the party. They each had to go at leading 0:03:26.600 --> 0:03:29.960 the party. Shorten didn't get to be prime minister. I 0:03:30.000 --> 0:03:32.640 mean they have a working relationship, but he will I 0:03:32.680 --> 0:03:35.960 suspect not being regular contact with Anthony Albanezi once he's 0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:39.160 no longer in cabinet. But I think if Bill Shorton 0:03:39.200 --> 0:03:42.360 could have rolled Anthony Albanezi and been Prime minister, he 0:03:42.360 --> 0:03:43.120 would be thrilled. 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:46.480 Okay, and Eric, you spent quite a lot of time 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:49.480 with Bill Shorten in twenty nineteen while you were writing 0:03:49.520 --> 0:03:53.880 your quarterly essay on that election campaign. What did you 0:03:54.120 --> 0:03:55.400 learn about who he is? 0:03:56.440 --> 0:04:00.360 The surprising thing about Bill Shorton is his insecurity. You know, 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:03.960 he's someone who famously his brother is taller than him 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:06.960 and better at sport, and you know, he's always felt 0:04:06.960 --> 0:04:12.560 second to that. He is not an especially confident person, 0:04:13.120 --> 0:04:16.599 which is a curious thing in politics, and actually think 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:19.919 it's a very good thing in politics. When you're not 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:24.919 a confident person, you lead by consensus. And so a 0:04:24.920 --> 0:04:27.880 lot of what Shorten has done in politics has been 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:31.159 being in rooms where he listens to other people and 0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:34.640 then tries to find an effective way through. He's also 0:04:34.640 --> 0:04:39.120 someone who is extremely effective as a politician. He's just 0:04:39.240 --> 0:04:42.520 not especially good at getting people to like him. And 0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:45.080 one of the sadnesses of Shorten is he desperately wants 0:04:45.120 --> 0:04:45.920 people to like him. 0:04:46.200 --> 0:04:47.159 Did you like him? 0:04:47.480 --> 0:04:50.760 I liked him because he was insecure, and I think 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:54.039 him being insecure as the reason most voters wouldn't like him. 0:04:54.360 --> 0:04:56.800 He's quite good at talking to people. He's good at 0:04:57.040 --> 0:05:02.200 genuine connections. He is terrible at translating that into anything 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:05.120 bigger than himself in the sort of shallowness of politics. 0:05:05.120 --> 0:05:11.200 That is probably a difficulty. But he's also gone through 0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:15.840 periods of time where he was hugely liked. Beaconsfield is 0:05:15.839 --> 0:05:18.440 probably the moment at which you know he became a 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:19.760 national figure. 0:05:20.000 --> 0:05:22.720 Union leader Bill Shorten has lived this rescue each and 0:05:22.760 --> 0:05:23.320 every minute. 0:05:23.320 --> 0:05:25.640 He says, all those who made it happen deserve a. 0:05:25.680 --> 0:05:28.720 Medal art thinking. You don't realize how close you get 0:05:28.720 --> 0:05:31.880 to these things. And I probably I was probably quite 0:05:31.880 --> 0:05:34.839 affected by it. I'm really really happy. I'm happy for 0:05:34.880 --> 0:05:36.799 the families. I'm happy for Todd and brand. 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:40.400 He was a Union representative there on the news every 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:42.480 night talking about these men who were trapped in those 0:05:42.480 --> 0:05:45.880 mine shafts. The Daily Telegraph at the time were running 0:05:45.880 --> 0:05:48.839 front pages saying Bill Shorten for Prime Minister when he 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:50.880 actually could be prime minister. There are running pages that 0:05:50.960 --> 0:05:54.280 said quite the opposite. But he I think every time 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:57.440 he confronts a problem, he genuinely tries to solve it, 0:05:58.040 --> 0:06:01.880 and that's why I think makes him likable. 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:05.320 And that is perhaps reflected most in his work on 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:09.200 the National Disability Insurance Scheme and its creation is seen 0:06:09.240 --> 0:06:12.760 as one of his biggest political achievements. He is, of 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:15.880 course right now leading a major overhaul of that scheme. 0:06:16.040 --> 0:06:19.280 So how do you think that we should think about 0:06:19.320 --> 0:06:22.520 his role in relation to the NDAs and the impact 0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:23.320 that he's had there. 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:28.480 I mean, I think the NDIS will be the great 0:06:28.600 --> 0:06:32.520 policy of our generation, probably in terms of its impact 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:36.160 on thousands of people's of lives. It's our version of 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:41.640 medicare being introduced. It has allowed thousands of people who 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:44.720 live with disability to live in their own homes, live 0:06:44.720 --> 0:06:48.839 with appropriate support, live with the care that they need, 0:06:49.440 --> 0:06:52.080 live fuller lives, and they are otherwise going to be 0:06:52.120 --> 0:06:56.800 allowed to lead. The reforms that Shortness pushing through now 0:06:56.800 --> 0:07:00.000 are obviously controversial because they're largely about cutting my money 0:07:00.120 --> 0:07:04.120 out of the scheme. But I think in the fullness 0:07:04.160 --> 0:07:06.520 of time, people will look at the NDIS and think 0:07:07.360 --> 0:07:11.080 that is one of the Labor Party's great contributions to 0:07:11.120 --> 0:07:11.560 the country. 0:07:12.280 --> 0:07:14.320 And do you think it will be Shortens legacy. 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:17.640 Shorten and Gillard, I think will be remembered as the 0:07:17.640 --> 0:07:20.440 people who did something that no one else thought was 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:25.400 worthwhile or possible. And you know, for anyone who knows 0:07:25.400 --> 0:07:28.320 anyone on the NDIAS, it is a huge and transformative 0:07:28.360 --> 0:07:33.840 thing and it should be Shortens legacy. But actually his 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:38.560 unrealized ambitions and how they've changed our politics, that's probably 0:07:38.560 --> 0:07:39.800 what's going to define. 0:07:39.520 --> 0:07:45.480 Him coming up after the break Bill shortens ambition and 0:07:45.520 --> 0:07:57.520 its consequences, for. 0:07:57.520 --> 0:08:01.120 Better or worse. I think that the defining public image 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:04.520 of Bill Shorten is him standing on the podium in 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:08.200 twenty nineteen. He's wearing a red tie, His wife Chloe 0:08:08.240 --> 0:08:11.120 is next to him in that red sheath dress, and 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:15.800 he was a man clearly expecting to become prime minister, 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:20.520 but instead conceding defeat for a second time. You were 0:08:20.560 --> 0:08:23.360 there that night, Can you tell me about that moment? 0:08:24.280 --> 0:08:29.800 This has been a top campaign, toxic at times. 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:35.000 I was there at the weird little hotel off the 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:37.480 airport where they were holding this, and I don't think 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:38.960 I've ever been in a sadder room. 0:08:40.360 --> 0:08:43.960 I know that you're all hurting, and I am too. 0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:47.079 There was this expectation that Shorten would win. At the 0:08:47.080 --> 0:08:49.080 beginning of the evening, the room was full of people 0:08:49.160 --> 0:08:51.280 who thought that they were going to be celebrating another 0:08:51.320 --> 0:08:55.080 labor prime minister. And by the time he actually got 0:08:55.080 --> 0:08:59.360 out to concede, only a third of the people who 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:00.920 were there at the beginning was still there. 0:09:01.600 --> 0:09:06.320 While there are still millions of votes to count and 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:11.760 important seats yet to be finalized, it is obvious the 0:09:11.840 --> 0:09:15.320 label will not be able to form the next government. 0:09:17.320 --> 0:09:21.760 Everyone just looked as if they couldn't comprehend that the 0:09:21.800 --> 0:09:28.440 country had decided that Scott Morrison, this shockingly insubstantial person, 0:09:29.559 --> 0:09:32.360 was going to be Prime Minister and Bill short and 0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:36.920 a man with an actual ambitious reform agenda, was not. 0:09:37.880 --> 0:09:39.520 Why do you think that he lost that election? 0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:44.080 Firstly because people didn't like him. That is an insurmountable 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:47.800 problem in politics. He is not someone people fel draw 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:52.320 on too. Secondly, he was putting forward some very ambitious 0:09:52.360 --> 0:09:55.760 tax reform and I think really good policy. To be honest, 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:59.080 he was going to fund a series of major initiatives 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:03.560 by cutting back negative gearing in capital gains discounts and 0:10:04.040 --> 0:10:08.880 by taxing frankin credits. Those should not be controversial policies. 0:10:09.360 --> 0:10:12.040 Those are sensible reforms that would help to make the 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:15.160 country just a little bit fairer. But he was fundamentally 0:10:15.200 --> 0:10:20.920 unable to convince people that those things were good. And 0:10:20.920 --> 0:10:23.280 one of the problems for him was he believed because 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:25.839 those things were so obviously the right thing to do, 0:10:26.240 --> 0:10:29.680 that people would just agree with them. So he was 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:32.839 not worried about the complexity of that reform agenda because 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:35.160 he thought if this is right, people will just get it. 0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:38.280 And what he learned was that being correct is not 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:41.480 the same as being in a position to win. 0:10:42.880 --> 0:10:45.840 Yeah, and when you think about it shortens political legacy. 0:10:45.880 --> 0:10:47.959 It does seem to be tied to this idea of 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:51.400 what could have been the prime minister that he wanted 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:54.080 to be but never became, and the tax reforms that 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:57.960 he wanted to introduce but couldn't. What are your thoughts 0:10:58.000 --> 0:10:58.200 on that. 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:01.559 Yeah, Look, I think we would be a very very 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:04.240 different country if Bill Shorten had won the twenty nineteen election. 0:11:05.200 --> 0:11:09.120 I remember bumping into one of his advisers in one 0:11:09.160 --> 0:11:12.000 of the COVID lockdowns on at the walks that you 0:11:12.000 --> 0:11:13.560 were allowed to take around the block at the time, 0:11:14.000 --> 0:11:16.000 and he made the point. And I think it's right 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:20.920 that had Shortened been in office through the pandemic, these 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:24.760 things that happened, like childcare relief and the lifting of 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:27.800 the rates of welfare payments, that those would not have 0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:31.280 been temporary measures. That a shortened government would have used 0:11:31.280 --> 0:11:34.680 the opportunity, the political opportunity of the pandemic to help 0:11:34.760 --> 0:11:36.719 reshape the country and to do these things that we 0:11:36.760 --> 0:11:39.040 all agreed were good, not just for a short period 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:42.840 of time but forever, and you. Had he won that election, 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:48.560 we wouldn't have had the ludicrous embarrassment of the Morrison years, 0:11:49.240 --> 0:11:52.040 and I think we would have actually genuinely invested in 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:52.800 a better country. 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:57.000 Do you think that will shortens time in politics? His 0:11:57.120 --> 0:12:00.400 seventeen years has changed the way that the Labour Party 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:04.600 operates significantly, and I suppose to extend on from that 0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:06.560 the kind of country that we live in. 0:12:06.840 --> 0:12:11.200 Absolutely. I think the paradox of Shorten is that in 0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:16.280 attempting to bring complexity to politics, he has created the 0:12:16.400 --> 0:12:20.320 most simple politics you could imagine. There is no ambition 0:12:20.720 --> 0:12:25.880 anywhere in any party for serious reform because people look 0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:27.640 at the twenty nineteen election, they look at Bill Shorton 0:12:27.679 --> 0:12:29.720 and think the lesson to draw from that is done 0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:32.840 try to change anything. And you know, it's a tragedy 0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:36.319 for the country that our major parties think the way 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:41.680 to win is to promise nothing. And people inside Labor 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:44.320 think that Shorton lost that election because he was promising 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:46.760 too much. He lost it because he was selling it poorly. 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:49.440 But the result of that has been to make our 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:55.960 politics less serious, less substantial, and sadly less meaningful. 0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:04.040 Eric, thank you so much. For Viata, Thank you Verby. 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:15.640 Also in the news today, the Governor of the Reserve Bank, 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:18.520 Michelle Bullock, has said its premature to be thinking about 0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:22.200 rate cuts. In a major speech yesterday, Ms Bullock pointed 0:13:22.280 --> 0:13:25.439 to the rising cost of construction and higher rents as 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:29.400 key drivers of inplation. Her speech comes after the Treasurer 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:32.839 Jim Chalmers called out the Reserve Bank's successive interest rate 0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:36.720 hikes for smashing the economy. The Reserve Bank has raised 0:13:36.760 --> 0:13:40.920 interest rates thirteen times since May twenty twenty two, and 0:13:41.040 --> 0:13:43.440 the head of ASIO, Mike Burgess, says he plans to 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:47.559 make tech companies unlock encrypted chats when necessary for national 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:52.520 security investigations. Encrypted platforms are increasingly being used by bad 0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:55.960 actors to hide their communications. Miss Burgess said the move 0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:59.280 would not amount to mass surveillance, but wants the corporation 0:13:59.360 --> 0:14:01.480 of big tech and will compel them to do so 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:06.040 if they don't voluntarily comply. Seven Am is a daily 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:09.240 show from Schwartz Media and The Saturday Paper. Our hosts 0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:12.480 are Me Ruby Jones and Daniel James. We're produced by 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:17.000 Shane Anderson, Zoltanfecho and Zaya Artungrel. Our technical producer is 0:14:17.040 --> 0:14:20.760 Atticus Basto. We're edited by Chris dmgate and Sarah mcphe. 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:23.880 Eric Jensen is our editor in chief. Our mixer is 0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:26.800 Travis Evans. Our theme music is by Ned Beckley and 0:14:26.880 --> 0:14:31.320 Josh Hogan of Envelope AUDEO. Thanks for listening, See you 0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:34.000 next week.