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Speaker 1: Welcome to Fear and Greed Sunday feature. I'm Michael Thompson.

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Speaker 1: Every Wednesday, we release a sister podcast called How Do

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Speaker 1: They Afford That. It features me and financial planner Canna Campbell.

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Speaker 1: It is all about personal finance. It's about making your

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Speaker 1: money work harder for you and we cover everything basically

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Speaker 1: from household budgets to superannuation, to investing in property and

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Speaker 1: everything in between. But the episode that came out on

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Speaker 1: Wednesday of this week was a little bit different. It

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Speaker 1: is about how to help somebody who is in financial trouble.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it's a friend, maybe it's a colleague, maybe it's

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Speaker 1: a family member. But this episode is about the warning signs,

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Speaker 1: the support that is available, and also how to help

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Speaker 1: somebody without putting your own financial security at risk. This

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Speaker 1: is How Do They Afford That? It is out every Wednesday.

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Speaker 1: There is a link to the full back catalog in

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Speaker 1: the show notes. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to How Do They Afford That? The podcast that peaks

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Speaker 1: into the financial lives of everyday Australians. I'm Michael Thompson.

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Speaker 1: I'm an author and the co host of the podcast

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Speaker 1: Fear and Greed Business News, and as always I'm with

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Speaker 1: Canna Campbell, financial planner and founder of Sugar mam A TV,

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Speaker 1: the financial literacy platform that you find just about everywhere

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Speaker 1: that you can consume content podcasts like this one and

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Speaker 1: Instagram and threads and TikTok and everywhere all over the place.

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Speaker 1: Hello Canna, Hello. Can a serious topic today. It's actually

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Speaker 1: a genuinely serious one, and it's one that can be

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Speaker 1: a little bit delicate at times. We're talking about what

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Speaker 1: to do when you notice that somebody is in financial trouble.

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Speaker 1: It might be a friend, it might be a family member,

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Speaker 1: it might be somebody that you work with, and they

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Speaker 1: might not have actually necessarily have confided in you that

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Speaker 1: they are having trouble, but you might have seen some

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Speaker 1: of the signs that they are struggling.

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Speaker 2: Or even intuitively pick something up.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yeah, just comments that they've made or something

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Speaker 1: like that. So the question is kind of do you

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Speaker 1: do anything, how much do you do? How do you

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Speaker 1: go about it? So there's a fair bit in this,

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Speaker 1: and as I say, a delicate one. Can we start

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Speaker 1: with the warning signs, assuming that someone doesn't just come

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Speaker 1: straight out to you and say, hey, I'm in trouble.

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Speaker 1: I haven't got enough money, I haven't got like I

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Speaker 1: can't afford to pay my rent or something. What are

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Speaker 1: some of the warning signs that someone that you know

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Speaker 1: is in financial trouble.

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Speaker 2: Well, first of all, some signs can be quite subtle.

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Speaker 2: Obviously some are quite obvious. So the classic one is

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Speaker 2: changes in spending habits, so suddenly going becoming incredibly frugal,

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Speaker 2: or even the opposite, actually becoming quite squndalous and trying

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Speaker 2: to keep up with the joneses.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow, that which there makes a problem so much worse, right.

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Speaker 2: Exactly just compounds. And then a classic one that I

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Speaker 2: see quite a bit is people avoiding social situations, so

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Speaker 2: they'll pull out last minute, or they'll perhaps turn up late,

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Speaker 2: So turn up late to the restaurant so that you

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Speaker 2: know when everyone's finishing their meal, or just having dessert,

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Speaker 2: so that they only order a dessert. Oh, they'll say, oh, look,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to drive, so I'm not drinking at the moment,

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Speaker 2: which obviously is responsible and there's nothing wrong with that,

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Speaker 2: but they will sort of delicately tiptoe around the problem

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Speaker 2: at heart. And then obviously things like having to always

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Speaker 2: borrow money, so asking for small loans out of the blue,

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Speaker 2: and you're seeing that happening maybe on a regular basis,

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Speaker 2: or you see them using their credit card to buy

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Speaker 2: things all the time that you know isn't necessarily within

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Speaker 2: their budget, or always using buy now, pay later. And

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Speaker 2: then there's also the physical appearance, so this the look

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Speaker 2: of stress and anxiety. You can actually sometimes see that

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Speaker 2: in people's face. They just look worried, they look worn out,

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Speaker 2: they look stressed, and you know they might be quite

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Speaker 2: short fused. They could be you know, looking like they're

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Speaker 2: stressed about bills, or they could be quite irritable, and

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Speaker 2: you know, this is one of the things about bearing

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Speaker 2: their head in the sand. And then of course skipping payments,

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Speaker 2: so completely ignoring any of their financial responsibilities or obligations.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot in all of that, but it's actually

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Speaker 1: that's really quite heartbreaking, isn't it a particularly I think

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Speaker 1: the one where they change their behavior where someone is

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Speaker 1: they're pulling out of they're not seeing their friends because

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Speaker 1: they can't afford to spend money, or they turn up

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Speaker 1: late to things to avoid kind of the meal or

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Speaker 1: not drinking that it almost feels quite shameful exactly.

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Speaker 2: And there's nothing wrong with saying, look, I'm want to

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Speaker 2: type bart it or we've hit with an expense. And

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Speaker 2: that's the other thing to point out. Because someone's in

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Speaker 2: trouble financially, people should never assume it's because of something

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Speaker 2: they've done that's their own fault. Sometimes it's just a

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Speaker 2: bit of just unfortunate bad luck.

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Speaker 1: I remember doing that once when this is a few

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Speaker 1: years ago, and meeting up with a group of friends

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Speaker 1: and the suggestion had been made, I will go to

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Speaker 1: this restaurant, and I know it was a very very

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Speaker 1: very expensive restaurant, and I actually messaged them separately and

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Speaker 1: I was thought, you know what, I'm not going to

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Speaker 1: kind of pull out or hide. I said, look, at

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Speaker 1: the moment, I can't afford it. Things are just a

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Speaker 1: little bit tight. At the moment, I said, I just

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Speaker 1: don't have it in the budget to go to this restaurant,

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Speaker 1: knowing that it would be a couple one hundred dollars

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Speaker 1: per person to go to this place, and I just said, look,

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Speaker 1: I can't afford it right now. And that person was

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Speaker 1: like entirely accommodating. They said, actually, you're right, it is

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Speaker 1: a lot of money, and no one has kind of

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Speaker 1: spare money at the moment. Let's find somewhere else and

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Speaker 1: we did. Great, you broke the ice. Yeah, absolutely, And

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Speaker 1: I was just like, and I think that more than anything,

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Speaker 1: just told me that in so many cases, honesty is

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Speaker 1: actually the best policy and people will understand. If you

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Speaker 1: are honest, you.

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Speaker 2: Create a safe space for other people. Then to step

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Speaker 2: up and say, actually, you know what, I'm the same

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Speaker 2: boat and this is an expensive restaurant. Maybe it's something

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Speaker 2: that should be held off for a special occasion only.

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Speaker 1: Perhaps, Yeah, okay, so that's like, these are the signs.

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Speaker 1: These are the warning signs. If you see this happening,

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Speaker 1: what are you saying to them? And perhaps not kind

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Speaker 1: of just coming out and saying it, what are you

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Speaker 1: saying to them? Are you actually broaching the topic with them?

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Speaker 2: Look, you've got to start with empathy and something nice,

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Speaker 2: you know, complete and absolute care and compassion. And remember

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Speaker 2: what is your objective here? It is to help that

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Speaker 2: particular person. So instead of saying, hey, I noticed you

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Speaker 2: look stressed and you're struggling right now, or you can't

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Speaker 2: afford to pay that, perhaps something that's more gentle, like, hey,

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Speaker 2: I've been thinking about you, like how are things going,

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Speaker 2: or when you know that you're about to see someone,

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Speaker 2: send a message and say, hey, I'm so excited about

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Speaker 2: seeing Hey, I'm so excited about knowing that we're going

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Speaker 2: to catch up and see each other. You know, I

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Speaker 2: can't wait to hear what you've been up to. So

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Speaker 2: you really make that person feel safe and secure and

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Speaker 2: most importantly respected, So you know, perhaps you start to

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Speaker 2: share your own experiences where there was a moment in

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Speaker 2: your life where you were facing financial stress before, so

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Speaker 2: you can make it really safe, in a non judgmental

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Speaker 2: space for that person to open up and feel less alone.

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Speaker 2: And the other thing I would suggest is asking open

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Speaker 2: ended questions rather than just bombarding someone with advice, So

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Speaker 2: things like you know, what can I do to help

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Speaker 2: you right now? Or is there anything that you can

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Speaker 2: think of that would actually help reduce the stress for

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Speaker 2: you instead of saying you should do this, or you

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Speaker 2: must do that, or you need to do that. You know,

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Speaker 2: this is where you can just come with a completely

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Speaker 2: different I guess energy and just come from a really kind, compassionate,

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Speaker 2: understanding place so that person does feel safe and they

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Speaker 2: feel safe to open up and to download.

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Speaker 1: So really it's about not making them feel judged. It

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Speaker 1: is about not making them feel embarrassed about it. It

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Speaker 1: is making them feel like they have got someone that

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Speaker 1: they can confide in exactly okay.

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Speaker 2: And also listen, you know some people, some women, maybe

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Speaker 2: they just need to like vent or download and they

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Speaker 2: don't actually want a solution because they're already working on

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Speaker 2: fixing the problem themselves. They just want to be able

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Speaker 2: to share what's going on and how they're feeling and

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Speaker 2: how it's impacting them right now, so they're not actually

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Speaker 2: asking for help necessarily. And another great question I think

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Speaker 2: is really important is to ask them what are they

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Speaker 2: doing to help themselves? You know, if they want any

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Speaker 2: other ideas or tips or tricks that they might have

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Speaker 2: themselves that could help that person get through this situation, because,

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Speaker 2: as I said, sometimes in situations, people need to figure

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Speaker 2: things out themselves. And you know, it sounds harsh, but

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Speaker 2: that's when you figure things out yourself, that's sometimes where

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Speaker 2: the best growth and you learn and gain the most

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Speaker 2: amoutter of wisdom and you don't repeat that pattern again.

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Speaker 2: So sometimes part of helping is actually stepping back and

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Speaker 2: supporting them from the sidelines.

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Speaker 1: Okay, should you always try to help? Like? Should you?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 1: I know that that is kind of helping but stepping

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Speaker 1: back right and making them know that the support is

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Speaker 1: there if they need it, but also just kind of

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Speaker 1: standing back and allowing someone perhaps to kind of work

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Speaker 1: their own way through it. But should you always do

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Speaker 1: something or are there circumstances perhaps where it's just best

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Speaker 1: to stay.

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Speaker 2: Out of it? Okay?

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Speaker 1: This is and look, I know this is actually quite

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Speaker 1: a delicate and tricky.

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Speaker 2: One because what I face all the time with people

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Speaker 2: around me, because obviously I'm a financial planner, and I

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Speaker 2: can sit and see things, you know, professionally and personally,

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Speaker 2: and I have to pick and choose when I you know,

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Speaker 2: if it's appropriate for me to say something or not

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Speaker 2: at all. But look, this is my from personal experience

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Speaker 2: and professional experience. I really believe that you can't actually

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Speaker 2: help someone who isn't willing to help themselves, because there

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Speaker 2: are sometimes people in different phases of their lives that

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Speaker 2: actually like to stay in a place where they are

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Speaker 2: a victim. Being a victim feels comfortable, they don't know

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Speaker 2: anything else but that, however, that definitely does not mean

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Speaker 2: you don't support or encourage them or even disrespect them

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Speaker 2: in any way whatsoever. Everyone has their own personal wake

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Speaker 2: up call, and sometimes your rock bottom where you think

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Speaker 2: all right, enough's enough is very different to what that

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Speaker 2: other person's rock bottom is where enough's enough, And that

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Speaker 2: moment will come, but it will come at the time

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Speaker 2: that's right for that person, and so you definitely can't

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Speaker 2: be necessary that person that pulls them out all the

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Speaker 2: time because then become codependent. But you can definitely be

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Speaker 2: the person that, as I said, sits on the sidelines

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Speaker 2: and is the first person to cheer them the moment

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Speaker 2: that time has come where they go all right, I

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Speaker 2: get what you've been saying, enough's enough. I can't live

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Speaker 2: my life like this. I deserve better. I'm willing to

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Speaker 2: do the work and help myself. Can you now help me?

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Speaker 2: So we really need to respect that time, depending obviously

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Speaker 2: how serious it is.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so there's clearly no kind of one set solution

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Speaker 1: here is basing it entirely on the relationship that you

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Speaker 1: have with that person, the details of their circumstances, how

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Speaker 1: open they seem to be to receiving help, and just

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Speaker 1: what you know about them as to what their personality

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Speaker 1: is like and how much they will need from someone

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Speaker 1: else and how much they're capable of doing themselves. How

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Speaker 1: then do you make sure that your offer of support

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Speaker 1: if you are talking to them, is actually practical rather

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Speaker 1: than just well meaning, Because the well meaning side of

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Speaker 1: it is good just for them to know that you're there, right,

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Speaker 1: but how do you actually physically help, physically help when

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Speaker 1: it's you don't just want it to be kind of

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Speaker 1: empty platitudes like oh it'll get better or yeah, you're

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Speaker 1: you're okay, you've got this, like it's nice, but it's

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Speaker 1: not going to actually do anything, right.

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Speaker 2: Of course, So obviously there's practical things, so you can

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Speaker 2: help to do a budget, say to that person, look,

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Speaker 2: why don't we sit down together and do your budget?

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Speaker 2: Or why didn't I come with you to see a

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Speaker 2: financial counselor so that you've actually doing the work with them,

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Speaker 2: holding their hand along the way.

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Speaker 1: And that kind of helps in a number of ways.

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Speaker 1: If you offer to go and see someone with them,

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Speaker 1: they've got emotional support, they've got kind of someone almost

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Speaker 1: holding them accountable in a way, kind of making sure

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Speaker 1: that they get there and don't cancel that kind of

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Speaker 1: appointment at the last minute. That would be a very

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Speaker 1: very kind of powerful thing to do.

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Speaker 2: And also you've got another set of ears in the room. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: because you know the counselor or you know that budgeting experience.

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Speaker 2: There might be a tip that gets missed my person

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Speaker 2: who needs to help the most, and then they can

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Speaker 2: gently remind them, Hey, don't forget that. You know that

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Speaker 2: counselor said, this is very common. You know this is

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Speaker 2: a great strategy to use. So it is again it's

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Speaker 2: coming back to that place of care and compassion. But

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Speaker 2: obviously you've got to be mindful not overstepping the mark.

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Speaker 2: Obviously you can't be giving superannuation advice to someone who's

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Speaker 2: really stress about retirement. You need to understand Thay, that's

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Speaker 2: probably where a professional steps in and you're offering guidance here,

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Speaker 2: not control. So you don't want to be taking over

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Speaker 2: their finances for multiple reasons. But this is all about

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Speaker 2: helping them help themselves as well and having boundaries in place.

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Speaker 2: You know, when they're ready to talk, your talk. But

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Speaker 2: if you get to a point where they're exhausted emotionally, mentally,

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Speaker 2: even financially, that you know, okay, all right, we're going

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Speaker 2: to park this conversation for a while, and a big

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Speaker 2: one I would say here as well, from a practical

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Speaker 2: point of view, is protecting yourself.

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Speaker 1: I want to get to that in the moment as

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Speaker 1: well about kind of how you make sure those boundaries

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Speaker 1: are in place to protect you as well, and also

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Speaker 1: to talk about what happens if the person that you're

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Speaker 1: speaking with, that you have identified as needing some help

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Speaker 1: is resistant to help and you're worried that their situation

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Speaker 1: is just going to get worse and worse and potentially

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Speaker 1: they are at risk. So there's still a bit to cover.

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Speaker 1: We'll take a quick break and come back with more.

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Speaker 1: Can We are talking about how to help somebody who

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Speaker 1: is in trouble, in financial trouble, and we talked about

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Speaker 1: the importance of approaching it from a really supportive place,

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Speaker 1: that it is all about having empathy and it is

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Speaker 1: about making sure that person doesn't feel judged and just

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Speaker 1: feel supported. What happens though, if they don't want help,

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Speaker 1: or if they deny that they are having issues, because

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Speaker 1: there is an element of embarrassment absolutely in this. What

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Speaker 1: if they deny that there's a problem, do you just

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Speaker 1: drop it or what's.

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Speaker 2: Worth you try and help them and they throw it

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Speaker 2: back in your face. Well, they don't actually follow what

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Speaker 2: you shouldes did it all and go down a completely

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Speaker 2: different path that actually causes more damage. Yes, look, it

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Speaker 2: is really hard, and this is where you've got to

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Speaker 2: protect yourself. I had a recent situation where someone very

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Speaker 2: close to me was in a lot of financial trouble

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Speaker 2: and they came to me and confided to me, And

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Speaker 2: you know, I spent hours going through a list of

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Speaker 2: all the different things they could do to help fix

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Speaker 2: the situation, and did the budget with them, did some

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Speaker 2: goals with them to spoke about their mindset. And I

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Speaker 2: spent hours and hours and hours, and I pulled all

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Speaker 2: these special strings for this particular person so that they

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Speaker 2: had this opportunity to make some extra cash and quite

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Speaker 2: a bit of extra cash. And they did all those things,

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Speaker 2: but then they went and bought a whole new wardrobe

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Speaker 2: with all that money instead of actually dealing with the

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Speaker 2: actual heart of the financial problem. Now, that was really hard.

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Speaker 2: There was such a mix of emotions there. I was angry,

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Speaker 2: I was frustrated, I felt disrespected. Then I felt really

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Speaker 2: sad because I could see this situation that was the

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Speaker 2: exact problem at the first place as to why this

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Speaker 2: person was in this situation. So you've got to know

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Speaker 2: when to pull back and when to say, all right,

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Speaker 2: I'm not of any help here. This person hasn't actually

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Speaker 2: reached their rock bottom. So this is where you really

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Speaker 2: need to respect their decision, keep the door open, let

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Speaker 2: them know that you are still there to help. But

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Speaker 2: you also just need to move on with your life.

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Speaker 2: And you know, I really think there's a lot of

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Speaker 2: power in leading by example. You don't necessarily need to

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Speaker 2: say you should do this, or I said this is

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Speaker 2: a great idea. You can sometimes you know, silence and success.

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Speaker 2: You just get on and do your thing and mention now, yes,

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Speaker 2: you know, I'm working on this financial goal right now,

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Speaker 2: or I've managed to save up this much money so far,

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Speaker 2: or I've finally paid off that credit card. Just lead

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Speaker 2: by example, and you just peppering did all the things

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Speaker 2: that you've managed to do and how it feels, and

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Speaker 2: just talk about that and just lead by example. Over time,

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Speaker 2: that person may wake up, but you can't help everyone.

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Speaker 2: And that's what I've really had to realize as well,

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Speaker 2: as a financial planner who's so passionate about financial illness.

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Speaker 1: Onto a rather to his situation now, and that is

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Speaker 1: family helping family or really close friends. Are there circumstances

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Speaker 1: where you would ever give or lend money to people

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Speaker 1: in order to help them through a situation or is

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Speaker 1: this just too kind of high risk that you can

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Speaker 1: end up kind of getting dragged into their financial mess

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Speaker 1: as well. And I suppose if you do do it,

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Speaker 1: how do you do it in a way that protects

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Speaker 1: you again putting up these boundaries and trying to protect

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Speaker 1: your own situation while helping them.

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Speaker 2: Personally, I would always help someone I cut and Tom

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Speaker 2: and I both like that, and we've actually agreed that

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Speaker 2: there are certain people in our lives that we will

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Speaker 2: always find a way to help them if it got

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Speaker 2: to that situation. And so if you do decide to

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Speaker 2: do it, there are a couple of I guess agreed

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Speaker 2: rules that you must have in place beforehand. Is Number

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Speaker 2: one is you never lend more money than you can't

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Speaker 2: afford to lose. So if you almost need to expect

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Speaker 2: you're not going to get that back, and if you do,

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Speaker 2: that's wonderful. The other thing is, obviously, if you're in

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Speaker 2: a relationship, if you've got to check with your partner

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Speaker 2: that you're both on the same page, and you agree

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Speaker 2: on the limit, you reagree on the terms, and that

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Speaker 2: there are no more loans beyond that particular point. So

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Speaker 2: there are some firm boundaries that you've communicated upfront and

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Speaker 2: you've communicated to that particular person. If you lend money,

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Speaker 2: also consider getting it written down to avoid any misunderstandings

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Speaker 2: as to you know, whether there's interest paid, or whether

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Speaker 2: how long that money has to be paid back, or

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Speaker 2: you know whether it can be paid in certain chunks perhaps.

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Speaker 1: And to make it abundantly clear that it is in

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Speaker 1: fact alone and not.

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Speaker 2: A gift exactly. And at the end of the day,

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Speaker 2: if you can't lend it, because it's going to put

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Speaker 2: you at financial jeopardy, explain that back to the person

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Speaker 2: to say, look, I would love to help you, but

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Speaker 2: we're actually in a really tight situation ourselves. So by

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Speaker 2: us helping you out, we're actually going to be you know,

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Speaker 2: it's going to mean that we're going to default on

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Speaker 2: this and that, and then that's going to happen, you know,

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Speaker 2: certain repercussions. But also never forget you know, you can

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Speaker 2: help someone not necessarily by throwing money at the problem.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's that non monetary help can sometimes actually

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Speaker 2: be of greater value, you know, connecting them with resources

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Speaker 2: like the National Deadline or for example, you know CBA's

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Speaker 2: Next Chapter program, which is amazing for people who are

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Speaker 2: suffering from you know, financial abuse. So there are lots

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Speaker 2: of different ways you can actually help people without giving

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Speaker 2: them money. And you know, like I know for times

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Speaker 2: in my lives where my friends have sent each other

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Speaker 2: quotes or funny means to help improve their mood as

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Speaker 2: they're going through a particular challenging time. You know, you

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Speaker 2: can't pour from an empty cup, So remember that, so

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Speaker 2: that you have that firm boundary for your own protection

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Speaker 2: when it comes to helping people.

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Speaker 1: And I suppose if the person who is approaching you

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Speaker 1: is a family member, it does add a certain emotional

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Speaker 1: element to it, Yeah, which you again need to navigate carefully.

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Speaker 2: Right, you feel so much more obliged to help a

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Speaker 2: family member, Well, I certainly do think most a friend.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And so in terms of then of you mentioned

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Speaker 1: a couple of resources there, and it's probably a good

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Speaker 1: place to kind of finish up where people can get

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Speaker 1: help if they need to. And so I'll just get

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Speaker 1: you to mention those ones again. But also, is it

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Speaker 1: just a case of providing these details to someone who

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Speaker 1: needs help, or is it kind of How do you

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Speaker 1: encourage someone to seek professional advice knowing that a professional

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Speaker 1: is unless you are the person that they're approaching for help,

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Speaker 1: a professional is probably always going to be able to

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Speaker 1: give better advice than say, regular person. Right, how do

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Speaker 1: you get them to get that professional advice without them

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Speaker 1: feeling pressured?

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Speaker 2: Well, this is the problem if they're not ready to

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Speaker 2: get help themselves. I mean, you can take a horse

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Speaker 2: to the water, but you can't make it drink. So

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Speaker 2: you need to respect they may have not actually hit

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Speaker 2: that moment where they go all right, this is my

403
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Speaker 2: rock bottom. Enough, so enough, I'm going to rebuild from here.

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Speaker 2: That moment may just have not come yet, may in

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Speaker 2: fact never come at all, and they'll just continue on

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Speaker 2: living this life. Now, we need to respect that's someone's decision.

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Speaker 2: They have a choice themselves. And I come back to this,

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Speaker 2: I've helped so many people who have then self destructed.

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Speaker 1: Again.

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Speaker 2: People need to learn how to help themselves, and it

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Speaker 2: is the best way to learn most of the time,

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Speaker 2: not all the time, but most of the time. So

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Speaker 2: you know, you've got to have your hand on your heart.

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Speaker 2: So you've got to nowhere to support, where to listen,

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Speaker 2: where to show compassion, where to step in, and of

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Speaker 2: course where to just step out and sit patiently on

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Speaker 2: the sideline. So you are the first person to cheer them,

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Speaker 2: support them and encourage them the moment they say, you

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Speaker 2: know what, I'm ready to help myself.

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Speaker 1: Okay. So those resources. The National Debt Helpline is a

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Speaker 1: great one, great to start with and look, the easiest

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Speaker 1: way to get in touch there is to go to

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Speaker 1: the website NDH dot org dot au. If you just

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Speaker 1: google National Debt Helpline it'll come up. But there are

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Speaker 1: other resources like so many next next Chapter, through Combank

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Speaker 1: and others.

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Speaker 2: A lot of the churches have free financial counseling as well,

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Speaker 2: so there are lots of people out there who are

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Speaker 2: willing to help you for free. And of course then

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Speaker 2: you've got great podcasts like this one.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, you've got books.

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Speaker 2: You can get from the library. There are lots of

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Speaker 2: online courses you can do. There are so many things

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Speaker 2: out there that are for free. They give you some

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Speaker 2: really great financial literacy to help you get out of

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Speaker 2: the situation. You're in, or help that person get up

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Speaker 2: the situation they're in.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, in terms of the kind of formal ones like

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Speaker 1: the dead help line and those will put a few

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Speaker 1: links in the show notes as well. Serious topic today,

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Speaker 1: wasn't it?

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Speaker 2: It was? But it's an important one.

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Speaker 1: I think so, And I think everyone will have experienced

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Speaker 1: this at some point, have identified somebody in their life

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Speaker 1: who is going through Look, and let's face it, there

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Speaker 1: are a lot of people going through financial trouble at

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Speaker 1: the moment because everything is just so expensive. So hopefully

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Speaker 1: there is something in here in terms of those signs

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Speaker 1: to watch for, the things to watch out for, and

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Speaker 1: even that very basic principle of help them do it

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Speaker 1: from a place of compassion and empathy and not judgment

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Speaker 1: and use those professional resources as the backup. And I

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Speaker 1: reallyzed what you said about kind of leading by example

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Speaker 1: as well, just kind of demonstrating kind of what you're

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Speaker 1: doing and people will observe that and it might be

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Speaker 1: a more kind of tactful way or delicate way of

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Speaker 1: kind of navigating through. But just be there for the

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Speaker 1: people who need it around you.

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Speaker 2: Exactly.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Canna, where do we find you? If anybody wants

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Speaker 1: more information.

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00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,560
Speaker 2: The best place to get in contact with me is

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Speaker 2: at Canna Campbell Official on.

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Speaker 1: Instagram, and you can hear me every day with Sean

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Speaker 1: Aylmer on Fear and Greed, daily business news for people

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Speaker 1: who make their own decisions. Thank you very much for

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Speaker 1: listening to how do they afford that? Remember to hit

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00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:32,680
Speaker 1: follow on the podcast, and importantly, particularly for this episode,

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00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,439
Speaker 1: if there is someone who think might benefit from hearing it,

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00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,280
Speaker 1: then please send them the link to the episode so

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00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:40,159
Speaker 1: they can have a listen. Thank you very much for

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00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:41,840
Speaker 1: your company. Please join us again next week