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Speaker 1: The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.

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Speaker 1: Detective sy aside of life the average person is never

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Speaker 1: exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop.

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Speaker 1: For twenty five of those years I was catching killers.

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Speaker 1: That's what I did for a living. I was a

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Speaker 1: homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead,

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Speaker 1: I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.

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Speaker 1: The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories

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Speaker 1: from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw

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Speaker 1: and honest, just like the people I talked to. Some

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Speaker 1: of the content and language might be confronting. That's because

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Speaker 1: no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.

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Speaker 1: Join me now as I take you into this world.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to part two of my chat with Daniel Hogan.

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Speaker 1: Danielle grew up in one of Sydney's most affluent suburbs,

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Speaker 1: but found her self caught up in a large scale

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Speaker 1: dialer dealer drug syndic it. We left part one with

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Speaker 1: Daniel been sentenced three years and ten months imprisonment. Now

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about her time in prison, how

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Speaker 1: she survived, and what being behind bars taught her. Danielle

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Speaker 1: also talks about what she's doing now and how she's

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Speaker 1: trying to make a difference working with a group of

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Speaker 1: ex prisoners for an organization known as Confit and the

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Speaker 1: new business called inside Out. Daniel Hogan, Welcome back to

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Speaker 1: Part two of I Catch Killers. Thanks having me Okay, Well,

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Speaker 1: part one was interesting, entertaining, sad, Yeah, full of my life,

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Speaker 1: full of emotions and yeah, I always knew there was

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Speaker 1: a story here and the different things that you've experienced

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Speaker 1: in life. For those that didn't hear part one, we

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Speaker 1: talked about your childhood where you grew up in surnives

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Speaker 1: and then when you were sexually sold as a teenager,

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Speaker 1: which was sort of a watershed moment in your life

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Speaker 1: all the way that you viewed the world. Then we

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Speaker 1: talked about poor relationship choices it's like dating advice on

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Speaker 1: eye Catch Kill. And then how you found your way

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Speaker 1: into a situation where you were caught up in a

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Speaker 1: not caught up. You were working for a large scale

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Speaker 1: dial a dealer, drug synding it deal in cacaine on

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Speaker 1: eastern suburbs and CBD. You got the rested and you

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Speaker 1: a made a career choice that you needed to head

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Speaker 1: in a different path. But it looks like you made

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Speaker 1: the choice too late and you got the rested. And

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Speaker 1: that's where we left you in part one. So we're

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Speaker 1: talking about the cell complex at Surrey Hill's police station.

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Speaker 1: So the police have come in and rested you. You

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Speaker 1: didn't get grunted bail and you were kept there. You

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Speaker 1: were telling me a story before about what it was

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Speaker 1: like in the cells at Surrey Hill. So as a

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Speaker 1: cautionary tale to anyone that thinks is a glamorous life

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Speaker 1: to be had in crime, tell us your experience there.

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Speaker 2: Oh, there's absolutely nothing glamorous about it.

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Speaker 3: Look, you handed a bar of soap that I'm not

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Speaker 3: even sure was soap at the time, and you're given

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Speaker 3: a toothbrush that you kind of is because half the

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Speaker 3: time the water doesn't work in the cells. So yeah,

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Speaker 3: the story that I was telling you was basically, I

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Speaker 3: think it was day three or four. I had a

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Speaker 3: knock at the cell hogan you know, you can go

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Speaker 3: for your shower, and now I thought, oh, great, thanks,

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Speaker 3: this is this is my opportunity finally, and I was

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Speaker 3: walked to this massive hallway where back of this hallway

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Speaker 3: you could see two glass glass doors with the showers behind.

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Speaker 3: And so there was a part like a partition or

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Speaker 3: sort of like a part that covered those doors, but

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Speaker 3: the part of that only covered sort of like your stomach.

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Speaker 3: So I'm going, what's the point in that, you know,

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Speaker 3: it's not really covering all the parts that need to

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Speaker 3: be covered. So, as I'm walking towards those shower doors,

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Speaker 3: I looked to my left and looked to my right,

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Speaker 3: and there were four cells, and best believe, there were

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Speaker 3: only men in those cells. And I think it was

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Speaker 3: a Saturday or Sunday night, which meant all of those

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Speaker 3: cells were completely filled with males. And I burst into tears, going, Okay,

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Speaker 3: I really need slush, want a shower, but I do

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Speaker 3: not want to shower in front of all of these men,

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Speaker 3: because God knows, you know, what crimes are in here for.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, as I'm being led to led to the

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Speaker 3: showers of pretty much a tea towel in my hand,

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Speaker 3: there was this Cory bloke, this older male, which luckily enough,

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Speaker 3: he saw what was about to go down, and he

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Speaker 3: winked at me and he goes, don't worry, Sis, I've

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Speaker 3: got you. And as I step into the shower, you

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Speaker 3: know the sixty seconds timer the shower turns on, and

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Speaker 3: he was grabbing all the pieces of foam, which some

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Speaker 3: people unfortunately call a mattress in those cells, and he

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Speaker 3: started placing whatever pieces of foam he could against the

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Speaker 3: glass so that none of the men could see that

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Speaker 3: I was showering. And then you know, the rest of

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Speaker 3: the other cells kind of followed suits. So it was

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Speaker 3: it was a scary time, but it was actually such

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Speaker 3: a beautiful thing knowing that, you know, people were actually

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Speaker 3: coming together and we're trying to make me feel.

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Speaker 1: Safe, a little bit of humanity in the dark place.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, and I followed it, definitely followed suit. So when

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Speaker 3: I returned back to my cell, you know, right around

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Speaker 3: the corner, I kind of would have gotten around that.

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Speaker 3: You know, there was a above average looking girl that

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Speaker 3: was in there, and you know I had another another

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Speaker 3: older male sort of sing me to sleep, which was

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Speaker 3: really nice. But then I also had another girl that

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Speaker 3: came into the cell quite late at night, and she

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Speaker 3: had done quite a lot of time prior to that,

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Speaker 3: coming off some very heavy drugs, but really took the

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Speaker 3: time to actually acknowledge that I was there, I was

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Speaker 3: a human being. I'd never been there before. And so

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Speaker 3: the first thing she said was you ever been to

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Speaker 3: Gel said.

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Speaker 1: Nut, How did she pick that? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Right, she goes, I said nah.

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Speaker 3: She goes, yeah, I didn't think so she goes, all right,

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Speaker 3: she goes, don't worry, she goes, I'll help you out.

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Speaker 3: So from there, she said, of she was showing me

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Speaker 3: how to make my bed and you know, sort of

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Speaker 3: giving me tips and tricks that were that were going

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Speaker 3: to get me through. And then I was really sad

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Speaker 3: when we set of parted ways over the next few days.

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Speaker 3: But then I luckily ran back into her at silver

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Speaker 3: Water just when the time called for it.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, she definitely took care of me.

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Speaker 1: So you've spent three or four days in the cells

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Speaker 1: and people don't understand the process. You're arrested by the police.

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Speaker 1: We're talking New South Wales here. If it was in Sydney,

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Speaker 1: you had bail refuse, so you were to be held

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Speaker 1: in custody and normally there's a trend holding cells at

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Speaker 1: Surrey Hill's police station that you've talked about, and then

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Speaker 1: you get moved to a prison if you still haven't

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Speaker 1: got bail. So that was the trip to prison. How

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Speaker 1: scared were you, because like so we sit here and laugh,

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Speaker 1: but you described yourself at the time that you were arrested.

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Speaker 1: You had long blonde haird down your back. You looked innocent,

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Speaker 1: and you were going into prison. That must have been

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Speaker 1: scary for.

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Speaker 3: It absolutely just not average our jailbirds. So I was terrified.

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Speaker 3: But you know, from watching shows like Wentworth or Oranges

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Speaker 3: in You Black, you know, everything tells you that you

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Speaker 3: can't show your fear, you can't appear scared, and so

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Speaker 3: I just thought, you know, whatever's going to be will be,

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Speaker 3: and so I did my absolute best to put on

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Speaker 3: a brave face. I got to Silver Water, which is

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Speaker 3: pretty much maximum security until they figure out what they're

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Speaker 3: going to do with you. And so imagine there's so

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Speaker 3: many girls on a remand there so basically remind is

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Speaker 3: girls that haven't been sentenced yet, girls that have no

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Speaker 3: idea what their future holds. You've got women that have

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Speaker 3: just come to like off of the streets, so they're

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Speaker 3: coming down off drugs.

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Speaker 2: That is like the.

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Speaker 3: Most volatile and like heightened experience you can ever have

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Speaker 3: because you don't know who you're talking to, whoever, whoever

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Speaker 3: they appear to be. In the first five minutes different

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Speaker 3: a day later. So it was terrifying because you're like,

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Speaker 3: I don't know who to make connections with. I don't

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Speaker 3: know who to be open with. Everyone always says you

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Speaker 3: don't talk about your crimes, and so I was just

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Speaker 3: in this state of confusion, and so I really shut down,

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Speaker 3: didn't want to talk about anything. Like you said, I

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Speaker 3: had been refused bail, which meant I was constantly trying

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Speaker 3: to fight for the phone, which it is a fight

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Speaker 3: every time to try and get on a call you know,

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Speaker 3: your lawyers or your loved ones to explains what's going

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Speaker 3: on or try and find out what can happen from here. Basically,

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Speaker 3: I receive word from my lawyers that we can apply

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Speaker 3: for Supreme court bail. It's very unlikely in this instance,

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Speaker 3: but they were going to try for it anyway. So yeah,

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Speaker 3: we went from there.

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Speaker 1: Because you were charged with commercial quantity drug supply half

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Speaker 1: a killer. Yeah, okay, so that's yeah, that's a potentially

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Speaker 1: very lengthy sentence. Had you got to speak to your

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Speaker 1: parents at this stage by that.

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Speaker 2: Point, yeah, I think it was like ten days. I

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Speaker 2: had finally spoken to my parents, and obviously I was

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Speaker 2: nothing but apologetic, and you know, all they could say

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Speaker 2: was it's fine, like this is you, Now, this is

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Speaker 2: up to you. You know, we just want you to

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Speaker 2: be safe, We want you to be careful.

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Speaker 1: I don't think we often consider the people left on

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Speaker 1: the outside, Like I can imagine your parents obviously, and

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Speaker 1: the way that you've talked about them, that they love

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Speaker 1: and care for you and they're decent people, how hard

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Speaker 1: it would be for their daughter to be in the

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Speaker 1: situation like that, And basically the only thing you can

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Speaker 1: say is yeah, be strong and look after yourself absolutely.

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Speaker 3: And this is it's a very touchy point for me,

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Speaker 3: Like we can speak about everything, we can speak about

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Speaker 3: my traumas and the things that I've been through, but

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Speaker 3: the only thing that hits hard and hits home the

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Speaker 3: most for me is the impact it had on my

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Speaker 3: family and my mates. Like, while I know it was

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Speaker 3: disappointing and upsetting for them because they obviously had to

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Speaker 3: wear the wrath of you know, people coming to them,

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Speaker 3: employers coming to them, or extended family asking like what

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Speaker 3: the hell? Like we remember Daniella's this you know, inspiring

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Speaker 3: young kid, and now Watch's in jail.

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Speaker 2: So I feel sick that I wasn't there.

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Speaker 3: To be the one to explain, you know, why I

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Speaker 3: was the way that I was, and that it had

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Speaker 3: nothing to do with my family or nothing to do

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Speaker 3: with my upbringing. It still hurts so much now, is

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Speaker 3: because every time I try and communicate that with my

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Speaker 3: family or even try and bring up the last few years,

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Speaker 3: my Mum will cry on cue every time, which I

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Speaker 3: can see anything in this world. I could probably see

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Speaker 3: someone murdered in front of my eyes, but seeing my

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Speaker 3: mother cry, I can't. And so yeah, it sucks because

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Speaker 3: the last thing I ever wanted to do was disappoint them.

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Speaker 3: But it almost hurts even more the understanding that they have,

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Speaker 3: and every every time we speak about this, they will

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Speaker 3: always say the same thing. They always say that you

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Speaker 3: had to go through what you what you did in

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Speaker 3: order to become the person that you are now, or

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Speaker 3: to do what you do for for work, or to

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Speaker 3: do what you love, you know, And it almost sucks

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Speaker 3: because it kind of discounts what they went through, you know,

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Speaker 3: and everything that they did for me, because they did

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Speaker 3: so much foremen I was inside.

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Speaker 2: But it's never about them. It's always like, we did

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Speaker 2: what we had to do and we got through it.

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Speaker 2: But all we're worried about is you? And I think

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Speaker 2: that that's what the definition of being a parent is.

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Speaker 1: Well, this is a definition that's a burden of being

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Speaker 1: a parent too, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they've got you got your for life and unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure there were moments when they they like but you.

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Speaker 2: Know what, they did their best and when I mean

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Speaker 2: their best, they went above and beyond.

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Speaker 1: It's just hard and so many people that have been

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Speaker 1: inside and they look at the pain that they've caused

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Speaker 1: people close to them and all that. But we're going

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Speaker 1: to get you surviving through prison at this stage. So

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Speaker 1: you've gone in there, had the media hit in the prison,

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Speaker 1: so they are aware that you were the Kcaine dealer

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Speaker 1: from the and suburbs.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's when the media originally hit.

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Speaker 3: Luckily enough for me, I didn't have any awareness to

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Speaker 3: it because I wasn't able to hear or read or

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Speaker 3: see anything. So my family and friends didn't want to

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Speaker 3: relay anything. Yep, obviously didn't want to stress me out.

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Speaker 3: So luckily enough, I actually received Supreme Court bail two

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Speaker 3: weeks after I was arrested.

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Speaker 2: I was then on bail for two years just before.

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Speaker 1: We get out of there because you've mentioned another thing

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Speaker 1: and I don't think we've covered on the podcast that

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Speaker 1: the lady that you met in the Surrey Hills and

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Speaker 1: this is a stroke of good luck. So we talked, Calma,

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Speaker 1: this might have been your karma. She was in Silver War.

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Speaker 2: The prison, thank god for that.

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Speaker 1: And what did she say and do for you?

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Speaker 3: So as soon as so you're kept in yourselves for

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Speaker 3: a few days, and then as soon as I was

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Speaker 3: released sort of onto the compound, this is like dumping ground.

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Speaker 3: This is this was scary shit, you know, And again

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Speaker 3: didn't know who to talk to. There were people trying

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Speaker 3: to stand me over for my food. There were people

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Speaker 3: trying to stand me over for the way that I look,

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Speaker 3: trying to date me, trying to sexualize the whole situation. Whatever,

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Speaker 3: and anyway, I was walking up to the office one

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Speaker 3: of these days, and thank god I saw her, because

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Speaker 3: she immediately ran towards me and then said to all

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Speaker 3: of her like everyone that she had known there, she goes,

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Speaker 3: this is my girl, she goes, I know her, She's

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Speaker 3: a beautiful person. She goes, none of you fuck with her.

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Speaker 3: And she was just she was someone in the system

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Speaker 3: who is so known and is so respected that that

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Speaker 3: was such a sigh of relief for me.

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Speaker 1: How I can only imagine how it made you feel,

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Speaker 1: and like walking into the yard for the first time

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Speaker 1: might just yeah, it must have been so scary for it.

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Speaker 2: It's nothing that high school can even prepare for, Like.

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Speaker 1: Well, you went to four different high schools. That can

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Speaker 1: be scary your first day at Playlightech, but this is

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Speaker 1: it was another level exactly.

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Speaker 3: None of that was like you just never thought you

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Speaker 3: were going to get bashed or sexually assaulted or you know,

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Speaker 3: this was an entirely different ballgame. This was arguing with

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Speaker 3: idiots like this was a you don't you really nothing

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Speaker 3: prepares you for this moment because you just you don't

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Speaker 3: know how to act. If I was too articulate, if

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Speaker 3: I word it things some ways, girls would then get

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Speaker 3: offended and think that I'm trying to trying to offend

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Speaker 3: them using bigger words, or you know, if I was

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Speaker 3: trying to speak sort of street or I was trying

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Speaker 3: to act a certain way, then girls were smart enough

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Speaker 3: to figure out that I was acting or there was

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Speaker 3: no middle ground. You know, it sends you into an

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Speaker 3: absolute frenzy. For someone that was still trying to build

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Speaker 3: her personality. You're going, holy shit, like I don't know,

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Speaker 3: I don't know who to be, how to be?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Well we had going back a couple of years,

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Speaker 1: Mindy Satori, who does a lot of work in jail

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Speaker 1: activism and also like helping prisoners before they've gone in,

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Speaker 1: giving a not a cheat sheet, but giving instructions on

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Speaker 1: how people should behave when they go in the jarl

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Speaker 1: because people like yourself, like the little things that you

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Speaker 1: would have been taught by your mate when you first

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Speaker 1: met her at the Sydney Police Cells would have been

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Speaker 1: invaluable for you, like going into prison, how they react.

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Speaker 1: And you've been through the system now say you know,

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Speaker 1: but when you first walked in there, you wouldn't have

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Speaker 1: had any idea.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely no idea.

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Speaker 3: And this is why I'm honestly, I'm so grateful now

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Speaker 3: for initiatives that are being set up since my release.

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Speaker 3: So we were going to mention later, but I'll say

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Speaker 3: it now. So I've recently been working with a coalition

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Speaker 3: keeping women out of prison, and the work that they've

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Speaker 3: been doing over the last several months is just inspiring

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Speaker 3: because they're finally acknowledging the importance of the lived experience

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Speaker 3: model and bringing real voices in real time, bringing these

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Speaker 3: women into situations, into policies and government level staff of saying,

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Speaker 3: you know, this is what they need and why they

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Speaker 3: need it is because of xyzed. So seeing all of

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Speaker 3: that stuff come out now and being a part of it,

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Speaker 3: it's amazing.

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Speaker 1: Well, we'll talk more in depth about that, and also

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Speaker 1: the aspect of women in prison that are often the

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Speaker 1: forgotten prisoners compared like the public's perception is that it's

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Speaker 1: all jails are filled with men, but there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of women in prison, and I think a number of

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Speaker 1: women in prison is increasing as well as I understand that.

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Speaker 1: So we'll talk about that you got bail. So two

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Speaker 1: weeks you spent at silver Water minus a couple of

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Speaker 1: days in the luxury resort that the Surrey Hill police cells.

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Speaker 1: How did it feel when you got bail?

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Speaker 2: Honestly, it was my saving grace.

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Speaker 3: I'm not a godly person, I'm not a religious person,

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Speaker 3: but I remember the night before my Supreme Court bail,

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Speaker 3: I was on the top bunk of a two person cell.

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Speaker 3: Beneath me was a severe schizophrenic and we were both

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Speaker 3: screaming out loud this night, and I thought, stuff, while

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Speaker 3: she's screaming, I'm gonna pray to God, which I haven't done,

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Speaker 3: you know, since I was a kid, And so I

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Speaker 3: basically said to God, if you grant me this opportunity,

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Speaker 3: you know, I'm going to do everything I can to

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Speaker 3: turn my ways around and to try and you know,

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Speaker 3: make the most of it. I'm grateful for the fact

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Speaker 3: that although I was sentenced and sent to jail two

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Speaker 3: years later, if I had gone to jail in those

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Speaker 3: two years, I was not mentally prepared. I was mentally

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Speaker 3: health wise, I was not ready, meaning I was so

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Speaker 3: sick to the point where I've got suicidal tendencies, I've

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Speaker 3: got depression, I've got anxiety.

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Speaker 2: Rather la la lah on paper, you know, I know

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Speaker 2: that I would not have lasted.

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Speaker 3: So I'm grateful that I had the opportunity to spend

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Speaker 3: those two years out of jail, to redefine myself and

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Speaker 3: to actually prepare myself for what came next.

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Speaker 1: Because in that two years, as you would entertain some degree,

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Speaker 1: I hope that you would know, with the charges and

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Speaker 1: the strength of the police case, the possibility is that

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Speaker 1: you're going to go inside. So two years out. Did

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Speaker 1: the world look different after the first two weeks in

353
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Speaker 1: there when you got out, did you go why did

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Speaker 1: I do this? Why have I put myself in this position?

355
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Speaker 1: What was your attitude?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely like, naturally you have that why did I do this?

357
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Speaker 3: How did I get here? How can I fix it?

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Speaker 3: But I think in such an early stage, I came

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Speaker 3: to the conclusion that I can't fix it. I'm the

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Speaker 3: fixer of my life. I always have been.

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Speaker 2: I've always been the one.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I've always been the one that pulls myself out

363
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Speaker 3: of shit or just has to get by. But I

364
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Speaker 3: think I came to a point where I was like,

365
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Speaker 3: you know what, although everyone's being so hopeful and thinking

366
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Speaker 3: that I'm going to get home detention, or that I'm

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Speaker 3: going to get let off because it's my first offense,

368
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Speaker 3: whatever else, I was like, I just had this internal

369
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Speaker 3: feeling that I'm like, I'm going to jail. And I

370
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Speaker 3: didn't hate it at first. Obviously you resist the idea

371
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Speaker 3: thinking oh my god, jail's horrible, but I was going,

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Speaker 3: you know what, it's either death, rehab, romain a junkie

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Speaker 3: or Joe.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So, even at that stage, with the threat of

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Speaker 1: a lengthy jail sentence. You could see the positives in

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Speaker 1: them always.

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Speaker 3: I think that's just kind of who I was raised

378
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Speaker 3: to be. But you know, unfortunately your lawyers need to

379
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Speaker 3: make it the worst of the worst outcome. So I

380
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Speaker 3: was being told what I was getting charged for, so

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Speaker 3: I think it was like a maximum of like something

382
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Speaker 3: stupid like fifteen years. Yea, you know, And in my

383
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Speaker 3: mind I was going, no, like that's not going to happen,

384
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Speaker 3: No way. I was preparing for like five years. But

385
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Speaker 3: I didn't know what those five years look like because

386
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Speaker 3: no one no one really understands or explains the system correctly, right,

387
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Speaker 3: because no one truly knows the outcome. So people can't

388
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Speaker 3: give you false hope, but at the same time, they

389
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Speaker 3: can't give you the worst of the worst out.

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Speaker 1: Well, there's precedence, but all cases are judged individually. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you can't really anticipate what the sentence. But seeing what

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Speaker 1: you had, I would have an expectation you were going

393
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Speaker 1: to go inside. What did you do to prepare yourself

394
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Speaker 1: in those two years.

395
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Speaker 2: You already know?

396
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Speaker 3: So look, I just tried to upskie myself. I tried

397
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Speaker 3: to do whatever I thought I could to. Let's say,

398
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Speaker 3: like look good in the magistrate's eyes. So I was

399
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Speaker 3: completing courses about self development or rehabilitation. I was working

400
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Speaker 3: pretty much full time. I was trying to start up businesses.

401
00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:35,560
Speaker 3: I was hanging out with more positive people like whatever

402
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Speaker 3: I could. But then several months out of my sentencing,

403
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Speaker 3: I thought, Okay, if I'm going to jail, I need

404
00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:46,080
Speaker 3: to I need to get ready, and so I did that.

405
00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:50,919
Speaker 3: I connected with an old friend who is a personal trainer,

406
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Speaker 3: and he's a boxer.

407
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Speaker 2: So we started. Yeah, we started boxing.

408
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Speaker 1: Sorry I'm laughing because we've already had this joke when

409
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Speaker 1: we're speaking the other days, when you were telling me

410
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Speaker 1: how you were boxing and getting prepared for prison, and

411
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Speaker 1: I couldn't but help make reference to the movie Getting

412
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Speaker 1: Hard with Will Ferrell and Kevin Hart. If you haven't

413
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Speaker 1: seen the movie, you probably don't understand the joke. But

414
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Speaker 1: if you have seen the movie, you'll understand. This was

415
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Speaker 1: Will Ferrell was being sent to prison. He was a

416
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Speaker 1: nerdy accountant, and Kevin Hart was teaching him be a

417
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Speaker 1: tough guy to survive in prison. Oh.

418
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Speaker 3: Look, and they definitely got me prepared. Like, while I

419
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Speaker 3: did you know, sort.

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Speaker 1: Of did you watch that movie while you were preparing

421
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Speaker 1: did that movie come out. It would have been around

422
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Speaker 1: about the must.

423
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Speaker 2: Have been on a subconscious level.

424
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Speaker 3: I must have thought, this is what I need to do,

425
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Speaker 3: because I started the boxing classes, but I had to

426
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Speaker 3: take it a step further.

427
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Speaker 2: So I think I don't.

428
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Speaker 1: Know if it was how to make a shive for yeah.

429
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Speaker 3: No, Look, I think he got really shitty tatoos, like

430
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Speaker 3: maybe on his bum or something.

431
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Speaker 2: So I didn't go that. I got really shitty hand tatoos, thinking,

432
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Speaker 2: you know the gel demographic, get some really ugly tatoos.

433
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Speaker 1: No one will picked me for the first time. Oh God,

434
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:05,480
Speaker 1: but I look, it sounds like you made the most

435
00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:07,520
Speaker 1: you could in those two years that you were out,

436
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Speaker 1: and I would imagine you, Yeah, you probably became closer

437
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,720
Speaker 1: to your family. Your family would have been really struggling

438
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,080
Speaker 1: with the thought that you're going to go inside and

439
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:18,280
Speaker 1: not having any idea what's going to happen when you

440
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,320
Speaker 1: go inside. That's it's a scary place.

441
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, And that was the hardest part was I couldn't

442
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:27,000
Speaker 3: read my family because and my friends because at the

443
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,480
Speaker 3: same like, everyone around me was putting on a brave

444
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,200
Speaker 3: face because they felt like they had to because they

445
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:34,240
Speaker 3: all thought that I was the only one going through this,

446
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,720
Speaker 3: that this is me. But like seeing how much it

447
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:41,679
Speaker 3: was impacting everyone without them trying to show how I

448
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:43,240
Speaker 3: was impacting them sucked the most.

449
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:43,520
Speaker 1: Ye.

450
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,199
Speaker 3: So although on paper like I was completing all these

451
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:48,879
Speaker 3: things and I was doing whatever I could, I was

452
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:54,879
Speaker 3: still suffering with like severe PTSD from my previous relationship

453
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:55,679
Speaker 3: that I hadn't dealt with.

454
00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:57,199
Speaker 2: I was dealing with a drug addiction.

455
00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,720
Speaker 3: I was still like, they were still all of these

456
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:06,160
Speaker 3: things that parts, yeah, that I couldn't shake. But this

457
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,280
Speaker 3: is why I kind of called jail my saving grace

458
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:13,320
Speaker 3: is because genuinely, I think going to jail was probably

459
00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:14,640
Speaker 3: one of the best things I could have done.

460
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:18,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's an interesting thing because I and yeah, this

461
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:21,200
Speaker 1: is where the system probably works, because if you didn't

462
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,919
Speaker 1: get a custodial sentence, you would have you would have

463
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:25,800
Speaker 1: been nervous leading up to it. But if you were

464
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 1: allowed to just walk free, maybe you could have fallen

465
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:30,879
Speaker 1: back into old habits, or you wouldn't have learned the

466
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:31,800
Speaker 1: lesson hard enough.

467
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:33,879
Speaker 3: To be honest, it just would have proven what the

468
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,439
Speaker 3: rest of like my prior life had proven, and that

469
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,119
Speaker 3: was I get away with bloody matter like now, accountability,

470
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:43,760
Speaker 3: no accountability whatsoever. I've always just managed to skim past

471
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,399
Speaker 3: in life, you know, call it winging it or whatever.

472
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:48,840
Speaker 3: But I've never for a lot of the things that

473
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 3: I've done, I've just always managed.

474
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:52,119
Speaker 2: To get away with.

475
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,239
Speaker 1: Well, good on you for recognizing it, because a lot

476
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:59,480
Speaker 1: of people date ye self reflection as you locked up

477
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,720
Speaker 1: in the cell. But no, but that that shows that

478
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,800
Speaker 1: there is a development and is something that you've recognized,

479
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 1: because yeah, if you keep getting away with things that

480
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 1: there's no lessons learned.

481
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 2: Is it exactly?

482
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:14,400
Speaker 3: And look to be honest, it was no no accreditation

483
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,919
Speaker 3: to corrective services at all. I definitely put in the

484
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 3: work myself. I may I made that decision that I

485
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 3: wanted to change, that I was going to turn my

486
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 3: life right.

487
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 1: You pleaded guilty, Yeah, okay, that's sentencing. You turn up

488
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:33,640
Speaker 1: with your toothbrush, that's it. I actually bring your tooth bras.

489
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:36,639
Speaker 3: I turned up with about five pairs of undies on

490
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:40,960
Speaker 3: and inside one of those I had maybe like a

491
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,919
Speaker 3: tiny piece of paper like a posted note size, with

492
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 3: all of my numbers scribbled on them.

493
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 2: I learned that from some of my friends prior to Yeah,

494
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:48,680
Speaker 2: the girl that I'm speaking.

495
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 1: You learned that from Getting Hard the movie.

496
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 2: I learned that from Getting On. Yeah, but.

497
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 3: I wasn't. Look, you're never prepared for a thing like that.

498
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 3: You never prepared for you know, the outcome, let alone,

499
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 3: what's going to happen in that In that initial courtroom,

500
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,640
Speaker 3: the conversations that it had, it was an absolute shit show.

501
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:15,159
Speaker 3: It was adjourned several times, which really threw a spanner

502
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 3: in the worst.

503
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:19,160
Speaker 1: You're in the mindset, Okay, today might be the day,

504
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 1: and then it gets adjourned, and that's good, but yeah,

505
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:24,199
Speaker 1: it's bad in the way too.

506
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,880
Speaker 3: So the first time I was like, cool, I've got

507
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 3: more time. Second time I was like, yeah, I'm getting

508
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 3: over it. Third time I was like send many dollar

509
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:35,920
Speaker 3: at this point, like you so, because it's it's heightening

510
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 3: everyone around you lack emotions And is today that the

511
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 3: last day that we see.

512
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:48,679
Speaker 1: Her and your family and close friends would have been there? Yeah? Again,

513
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 1: how hard is that for them?

514
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 2: Again?

515
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 3: Everyone everyone put on such a brave face and it

516
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:54,919
Speaker 3: killed me, Like it.

517
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 2: Something in a theme, let's.

518
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 3: Call it, in my entire life, in my family and whatever.

519
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,679
Speaker 3: Because everyone is always so focused on the positives. We

520
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,639
Speaker 3: don't talk about the hard shit. We don't talk about

521
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:11,159
Speaker 3: the real things. So that's always been an issue that

522
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 3: I've struggled with and something that I'm still actively trying

523
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:18,120
Speaker 3: to work on now is creating those really uncomfortable conversations. Yeah,

524
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 3: but having them they're important, and we did, We truly

525
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:23,880
Speaker 3: did start having them before I went to jail, which

526
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 3: is important. But then yet on days like sentencing, you're

527
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,719
Speaker 3: going just say something like tell me how you really feel, please,

528
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 3: But everyone just wanted to make sure that look, due

529
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 3: to my mental health history, that I was okay, first

530
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 3: and foremost, that I understood what was going on and

531
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 3: that everything was fine, that no matter what the outcome was,

532
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 3: that they loved me.

533
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 1: So that's a messaging. I'm just breaking it down. In

534
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:51,399
Speaker 1: my mind. I can imagine walking in there with your parents.

535
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 1: You're probably traveling together and making small talk. Get there

536
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 1: and walk in there, and then it comes to the

537
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,360
Speaker 1: court start and your mum's probably give your cuddle, might

538
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 1: be for the last last time for a very long time,

539
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 1: and then you got to go sit and see what happens.

540
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, the hardest, Like I can laugh about it now,

541
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 3: but the hardest part was when we were driving in

542
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 3: the last time my dad. My dad's my hype man, right,

543
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 3: so's he's the driver and he's trying to get the

544
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 3: tunes going and building the excitement and whatever.

545
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 2: Put on this one song.

546
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:28,920
Speaker 1: And I always look on the bright side.

547
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:33,639
Speaker 3: No, it was something from the lyrics were basically like

548
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:37,880
Speaker 3: come home, like you're coming home, like i'll see I'll

549
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 3: see you soon. And then the was that you didn't like.

550
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,359
Speaker 3: I didn't So as soon as I think that was

551
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,199
Speaker 3: the first thing I said when I jumped Oh was

552
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,880
Speaker 3: Bertie whatever? Yeah, one of Bertie's lyrics was something about

553
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 3: coming home. And then the first time, so i'd been

554
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 3: probably like ten or eleven days that I hadn't spoken

555
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 3: to my parents for as soon as I jumped on

556
00:27:58,000 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 3: the phone to my dad, I was.

557
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 4: Like, well, those lyrics are right. It didn't quite cut it,

558
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 4: didn't you. Okay, So you're there, You've gone through the

559
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 4: court proceedings. There's a lot of stuff that goes on,

560
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,360
Speaker 4: and that it's hard when you're sitting there and they're

561
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,640
Speaker 4: talking about your life, your future, the things that you've done,

562
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 4: and you're sitting there and almost like a side piece

563
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 4: to what's going on. We've everyone talking about you, not

564
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 4: so much to you, and then the judges you've been

565
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,880
Speaker 4: found guilty or you've played guilty, and the judge has

566
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,640
Speaker 4: to hand down the sentencing. What sentence did.

567
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 3: You get again, Because, like you just said, because you're

568
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 3: kind of sitting on the sidelines of your entire life,

569
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 3: I couldn't really understand what was happening to get complicated

570
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 3: with and some of the terminology they use. I'm like,

571
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 3: why dumb it down for a person?

572
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 1: Please, you know, hold up a sign, please, you've got this.

573
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 2: I need subtitles at that point.

574
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 3: But I just remember this, this pivotal moment of my

575
00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 3: barrister speaking to the magistrate and saying, like you could

576
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 3: you could tell that we were really, you know, trying

577
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 3: to pull every string we could at that point, because

578
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 3: my magistrate turned around saying, you know, if you send

579
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 3: her to jail, there's going to be a target on

580
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 3: her back because of all the media attention.

581
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 2: I was like, as if that's something you'd mentioned in

582
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 2: a court room.

583
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 1: But anyway, your defense said said that to the magistry.

584
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 3: Like basically put out all the media attention that was

585
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 3: that was put out prior to that saying, do you

586
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 3: realize what you're doing to this young girl? If you're

587
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 3: if you're about to send it at a prison, like

588
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 3: you're basically putting her in harms way, And so I

589
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 3: remember hearing that and going hmm, like that's going to

590
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 3: be on the news. And then I looked over at

591
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 3: the magistrate and then before I knew it, the magistrate

592
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 3: was handing down my sentence, wouldn't even look at me,

593
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 3: and all I heard was four years, ten months, and

594
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:49,959
Speaker 3: in my mind, I was like, oh my god, I'm

595
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 3: going to jail for four years. It's all like, I

596
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 3: was like, what I There's no emotion you can even

597
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 3: describe at that point when you hear something like that.

598
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 3: I think I let out like a nervous laugh. So

599
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 3: I was like, oh shit, like this is okay, plot.

600
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 1: Twist laughing at yourself.

601
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm going, oh okay, what now? You know? This

602
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 2: is insane.

603
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 3: So from there it was, honestly, I think I felt

604
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 3: like I was in a dream state, like it didn't

605
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 3: feel real at all. I remember looking to all of

606
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 3: the seats, so my family, some of my friends were there.

607
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 3: Everyone was crying, obviously, and then I remember looking at

608
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 3: my barrister. He walked over to me and he just

609
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 3: started thrying cash, and I was like, what is happening

610
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 3: right now? But it's because no one tells you again

611
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 3: you need physical money, Like you can't go in with

612
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 3: a credit card. You know, you need cash on you

613
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 3: to put anything in your account. So he's throwing me

614
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 3: whatever he could. I'm trying to catch all of it.

615
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 3: And then I had two officers walk over to me,

616
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 3: handcuff me, and then walk me past all of my

617
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 3: friends and family to basically in the smallest elevator I've

618
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 3: ever seen, to then go beneath the beneath the Dunning

619
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 3: Center Court cinema.

620
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 1: Your family say there when you've been walked past in handcuffs.

621
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 3: I don't even remember words, to be honest, I just

622
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 3: remember I kind of like flung my arms around them

623
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 3: in handcuffs to hug them. Wasn't allowed to do that,

624
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 3: so arms were removed instantaneously because it was during COVID

625
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 3: as well, mind you. Yeah, so yeah, that happened. And

626
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 3: then I just remember my dad kind of nodding as

627
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 3: if to say, like, you'll be all right. I think,

628
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 3: out of everyone, I think my dad and I were

629
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 3: kind of the only two that recognized that I was

630
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 3: going to jail, that I was going to be sentenced

631
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 3: to present so kind of gave me the look of

632
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 3: it's okay. And then yeah, I walked into the tiniest

633
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 3: elevator I've ever seen, and I just remember handcuffs in

634
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 3: front of me.

635
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 2: I look at the handcuffs. I look down.

636
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 3: I'm in stilettos, and I just started laughing because I

637
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 3: was like, this is a weird shit. Ever, I'm like,

638
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 3: what what is happening right now? You know you can't

639
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 3: write this stuff?

640
00:31:57,960 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 1: Yeah.

641
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 3: So yeah, from there, I was thrown into a dry cell,

642
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 3: strip searched all the rest of it, and that that

643
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 3: was a pivotal moment for me. Everyone always says it's

644
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 3: you know when you're arrested, or you know, when you

645
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 3: spend a few days in jail whatever. No, no, no,

646
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 3: That that was the moment that I was like, this

647
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 3: shit needs to change now.

648
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 2: Yeah.

649
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, when the sentence where you're looking down the track

650
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 1: of spending news in prison.

651
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just thought about things really quickly and I

652
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,479
Speaker 3: was like, you know what, no one's coming, Like, no

653
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 3: one's coming to save me.

654
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 2: This is up to me now.

655
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 1: That's the thing that I don't think and it's important

656
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 1: that people have experienced talk about it because I've seen

657
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 1: the look of shock on people's faces when they're actually

658
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 1: going to jail. What And yeah, I explained to it,

659
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 1: and I explained it in hard terms sometimes to people. No,

660
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 1: your life, as you've known, that has ended at this

661
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 1: point in time, and now everything you do will be

662
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 1: controlled by someone telling you what to do at what time,

663
00:32:56,680 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 1: and you have no idea. But that's that's the consequences

664
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 1: of going to prison.

665
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 3: And it was kind of like a double edged sword,

666
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 3: right because, like you said, like it's that acceptance that

667
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 3: nothing that happens from here on out is up to you.

668
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 3: But at the same time, it kind of is like

669
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 3: your mentality is up to you. Fair Enough, you're told

670
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 3: when to eat, went to sleep, when to go to

671
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 3: the whatever. But your mentality of how you drive this

672
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 3: entire several like next few years, that's all up to you.

673
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 3: You can either remain a victim, you know. I experienced

674
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 3: so many girls in there that were so mad at

675
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 3: the system, was so mad at their friends or whoever

676
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 3: they thought that they were in there because of And

677
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 3: I would always rebuttal with like no, like you're in

678
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 3: here because of you, Like yeah, and I recognize, like

679
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 3: I got myself here and although I have all this

680
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 3: support on the outside, they're not the ones that are

681
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 3: in here every single day going through what I'm about

682
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 3: to experience, Like I either had to man the fuck

683
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 3: up and decide that whatever I do from here on

684
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 3: out is completely up to me, or I can just

685
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 3: sort of give in.

686
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, that that mindset is probably dictates how you're

687
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 1: going to do the time and how you are when

688
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 1: you come out, if you come out. So you're on

689
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 1: the on the prison van heading heading to prison. How

690
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 1: did that feel when you realized it wasn't sort of

691
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 1: the silver Water experience where you're expecting to get bail.

692
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 1: You know, this is now your life for a substantial

693
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 1: period of time. How did you feel?

694
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 2: It was interesting?

695
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 3: I think because I was not prepared, but I had

696
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:41,959
Speaker 3: a taste to it prior. I kind of knew boxing train, Yeah,

697
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 3: I was ready, you know, gloves, I don't know. I

698
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 3: kind of I sort of knew what to expect. I

699
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 3: knew the conversations I was going to be having. I

700
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 3: knew how to handle the girls. What I wasn't expecting

701
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 3: was the fact that it was during COVID and it

702
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 3: was during Christmas and years, so I didn't my cell

703
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 3: for over a month, and that was the scariest part.

704
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:07,240
Speaker 1: Were you in the cell on your own, which.

705
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 2: Was even scarier I would have preferred. I love my

706
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:09,800
Speaker 2: own company.

707
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 3: I'm good, You're safe, you know, but you're always you're

708
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 3: put in with someone that you have no idea about who.

709
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:19,799
Speaker 1: We're sharing with without giving up the name, Yeah I was.

710
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:21,799
Speaker 3: I was putting with a girl who we actually ended

711
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,239
Speaker 3: up becoming really close friends at the end of it.

712
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 2: Well, once we separated, once we left parted ways.

713
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 3: But at the time she was coming off a lot

714
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:33,800
Speaker 3: of drugs when we were thrown in the cell together,

715
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 3: so I didn't hear from her for the first I'd say,

716
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 3: like five six days.

717
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, you just got this body, basically a.

718
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:41,920
Speaker 2: Literal body, like I just checked that she was breathing

719
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:44,360
Speaker 2: every couple hours. She just slept.

720
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 3: But then when she woke up, one of the funniest

721
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 3: people I ever met, you know, just so down to earth,

722
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 3: like same things, so so loved life. Just so I

723
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,799
Speaker 3: wouldn't I wouldn't say innocent, but just had this thing

724
00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 3: about her where she made every moment important when she

725
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 3: was awake. Yeah, you know, And so we had a

726
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:06,280
Speaker 3: great time, like all through Christmas. We would never forget

727
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 3: this time. We freaked all the screws out. One time,

728
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:11,879
Speaker 3: I think it was Christmas Eve.

729
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:13,360
Speaker 2: We had baby powder.

730
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so we had a we had a plate

731
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:20,480
Speaker 3: out one day and they obviously, like the officers knew

732
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:22,319
Speaker 3: what I was in for. So we put all the

733
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 3: baby powder on the plate and we started coming it up. Yeah,

734
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:27,879
Speaker 3: and they would and they would come and do night checks,

735
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 3: but they'd walk to the veranda side, so you've kind

736
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 3: of got like a massive like glass screen.

737
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,759
Speaker 2: View of our skirls. And so they walked past and

738
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:38,439
Speaker 2: we're pretending that we were doing lines off this off

739
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 2: this red plate, and so they ran in and like

740
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 2: tried to cause the scene and we're just like, ah,

741
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 2: it's maybe powder like sucked in. Like little things like that.

742
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 2: It seriously gets you by.

743
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 1: Well, I suppose you got to find the joy in

744
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:51,840
Speaker 1: those little little.

745
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 2: Moments you do, and there's so many of them in there.

746
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 1: When you're out with the population, And did you have

747
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 1: to adjust your attitude and absolutely what sort of changes

748
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:01,719
Speaker 1: did you have to make?

749
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 3: We both did, and that was that's what kind of

750
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 3: became the beautiful thing. Is like when we'd returned back

751
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:09,359
Speaker 3: to our cell, like we could be ourselves, you know,

752
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 3: but when we're out there, we'd have to be brave,

753
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:15,879
Speaker 3: we'd have to be short, we'd have to be quick

754
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 3: witted with you know, remarks or that type of shit,

755
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 3: Like you just had to be defensive all the time.

756
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 2: And that was a sad reality.

757
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:28,840
Speaker 3: Like for me, it was one thing, but for my roommate,

758
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 3: for example, she was Indigenous, but she was white indigenous,

759
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 3: so she's fighting battles that I couldn't even handle, you know,

760
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,439
Speaker 3: her own people weren't even accepting of her. So even

761
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,399
Speaker 3: seeing that, I was going, fuck, like, I have it hard,

762
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:43,760
Speaker 3: but there's other people here that have it so much harder.

763
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 3: So that's the thing that people don't recognize, is like,

764
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:49,920
Speaker 3: and kind of what made it easier for me is

765
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:54,360
Speaker 3: recognizing that every single person that was on that compound,

766
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 3: we're all fighting our own battles. We would all go

767
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 3: back into our cells of an afternoon and be like,

768
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 3: oh my god, I just had to do that, including

769
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 3: the bullies, including the standovers, including you know, all of

770
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 3: these people that seem like the toughest and the roughest,

771
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 3: like they're putting on the front as well, they're.

772
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 1: All just people and then going back in the cell

773
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 1: and just like they can switch off the Yeah, did

774
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 1: you experience or encounter violence in there?

775
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 2: Absolutely? Those those boxing classes definitely came to.

776
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 1: Use, right, Okay, so health your hands up.

777
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:27,759
Speaker 3: Not for only only for one like serious occasion, I'd

778
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:31,919
Speaker 3: say so. From silver Water, I got moved to Windsor yep,

779
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 3: and that was easily my scariest time. So that was

780
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 3: minimum security, but that meant you're put on a compound

781
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 3: like an area of about three hundred women, and anyone

782
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 3: can imagine three hundred women what that looks like. You know,

783
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,759
Speaker 3: it was crazy. There was just honestly, it felt like

784
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 3: you're in year ten again. There's so much bitchiness, there's rumors,

785
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:58,399
Speaker 3: there's whatever. So day one of me being there, I'm

786
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 3: pushing through this massive thing of all my clothes and

787
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 3: all of the newcomers with me.

788
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 2: It was lockdown.

789
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 3: So all of the girls were looking out through their

790
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 3: rooms obviously like the new fresh meat on the compound,

791
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 3: and so everyone had sort of seen who I was

792
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,760
Speaker 3: whatever else. And then the next day, I'm walking around.

793
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:22,320
Speaker 3: Luckily I made a friend because I lived in the

794
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 3: same area as her at the time, so we became

795
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 3: very chummy very quickly, and she was honestly, I believed

796
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 3: at one point she was my guardian angel for what

797
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:35,479
Speaker 3: came next. So anyway, we're walking around one day and

798
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:38,400
Speaker 3: I think this was the second day, and I had

799
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:41,279
Speaker 3: one of my coal offenders come up to me. And

800
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:43,840
Speaker 3: I didn't know a that two coal fenders could be

801
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 3: in the same jail at the same time. But also

802
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,239
Speaker 3: I didn't know that she disliked me the way that

803
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 3: she did, so we never really got along like in

804
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 3: the past. But it was very high by there was nothing,

805
00:39:57,239 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 3: you know, too serious. So I walked up to her

806
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 3: being friendly, being nice. Who I am, Oh, I can't

807
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 3: believe we're here together, blah blah blah, And she was

808
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 3: met that same energy, exactly the same, Oh, I'm so

809
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 3: happy you're here, Come and see me later this or

810
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 3: the other. Continue to walk anyway, Later that afternoon, I'm

811
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 3: doing laps outside. You're walking around this massive compound outside, right,

812
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 3: and I walk past this group of girls and I

813
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:23,719
Speaker 3: hear barking like barking like dogs, and I look at

814
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:26,160
Speaker 3: my friend and I was like, that was weird?

815
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:26,920
Speaker 2: Is that for you?

816
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:30,840
Speaker 3: And she goes, listen, I've been here for six months.

817
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 3: She goes, I've never been barked out. She goes, have

818
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 3: you done something wrong?

819
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:36,000
Speaker 2: And I laughed. I was like, we've obviously all done

820
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 2: something wrong, like we're all here, right, VALI valid right?

821
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 2: And she's like no, I mean are you a dog?

822
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 3: Are you a giver? And I was like, what the

823
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,359
Speaker 3: Like what are you talking about? And she goes, have

824
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:52,520
Speaker 3: you given anyone up? Have you done something wrong? Said no,

825
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 3: like I'm here, I'm doing my time, Like what are

826
00:40:56,280 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 3: you talking about? Couldn't understand anyway cap happening. We'll walking around.

827
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 3: Other girls were barking or making just smart remarks, and

828
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 3: I was like, now I've had enough of this because

829
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:09,200
Speaker 3: you're walking around with your blood pressure through the roof.

830
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 3: You're going you just don't know what's going to happen.

831
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 3: I'm looking behind my back if someone's gonna dog shot me.

832
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 3: You know, you have no idea anyway. So I walk

833
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 3: up to one of the girls that's kind of like

834
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:20,880
Speaker 3: seen as like the head honcho in the jail, and

835
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 3: I said, what's up, like I don't understand what's going on.

836
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 3: I just got here. You know, girls are saying XYZ.

837
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:29,879
Speaker 3: And she goes, oh, we hear that. You're a give up,

838
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 3: Like you're a dog. You gave up the syndicate. And

839
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 3: I laughed because I was like, are you joking? Like

840
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:36,800
Speaker 3: I'm doing the most amount of time that any of

841
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 3: the girls are doing. That doesn't that doesn't make sense

842
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 3: in any way, shape or form. She's like, well, that's

843
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:45,239
Speaker 3: just what we've heard, so we're going to act accordingly.

844
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:50,239
Speaker 1: That's scary. I'm the statement going.

845
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 3: You can't argue with idiots, right, So I'm going, how

846
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 3: do I how do I handle this situation? And then

847
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:00,399
Speaker 3: I've always been told like, if your old school jail,

848
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:04,040
Speaker 3: you're old school criminals. Whatever you read statements, if that's

849
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 3: how you find out if someone's a dog. So I

850
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:08,959
Speaker 3: was laughing because I was going, we can all, I said,

851
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:10,799
Speaker 3: We'll go to the office. They can print out our

852
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:13,880
Speaker 3: eighteen thousand page brief. We can all sit there and

853
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:17,319
Speaker 3: sing Kumbaya and read like my brief because I've done

854
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,840
Speaker 3: absolutely nothing wrong. And she's like, I don't want to

855
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:22,359
Speaker 3: hear it. You're a dog. We know you're a dog.

856
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 3: It came from above. So I'm going, what is anyway cool?

857
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:30,239
Speaker 3: Kept walking and I was like wrapping my head around

858
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 3: this for the rest of the afternoon, going something's going

859
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:33,799
Speaker 3: to come from this. I don't know how to handle it.

860
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 3: And I'm crying to my friend, going have you ever

861
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 3: dealt with like this my first day?

862
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 2: Angail?

863
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 3: Like what, you know what? There's no TV show that

864
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:44,920
Speaker 3: prepares you for me. It's like what do I do?

865
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:47,520
Speaker 3: And she goes, look, all we can do is try

866
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:49,880
Speaker 3: and talk some sense into this girl that was like

867
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:52,279
Speaker 3: higher up or she said, you need to talk to

868
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:54,719
Speaker 3: your cold fender because obviously it's come from that. Yeah,

869
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:58,280
Speaker 3: And so tried to talk to my cole Fender wouldn't

870
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:00,080
Speaker 3: have a bar of it. She was very much like

871
00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 3: set in her ways that that was the case. She

872
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:06,879
Speaker 3: was adamant that I was a dog. But mind you,

873
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:09,719
Speaker 3: she'd also been there three months prior to me, so

874
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 3: she'd built friendships and.

875
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:13,279
Speaker 1: She made a name.

876
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, She's got a crew around her.

877
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 3: So she told all of them, and so I'm stressing

878
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 3: out at this point, but I was like, you know what,

879
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:23,239
Speaker 3: I can't I have to show face, Like I can't

880
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 3: hide in my room.

881
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:28,040
Speaker 2: There's nothing I can do about it. So I'm still walking, walking, walking,

882
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 2: and then this random girl who never met walks up

883
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 2: to me and she goes, are you Doneyelle? I said yep.

884
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:39,399
Speaker 3: She goes, all right, you've got sixty seconds to put

885
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 3: yourself into protection or else we're going to put you there.

886
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:47,279
Speaker 3: All right, this girl's twice my size. I'm going I

887
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:48,840
Speaker 3: don't know how to handle this at the moment. And

888
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 3: then mind you, because it's a drama, girls drama, everyone

889
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 3: starts swarming, so there's like fifty people on her side.

890
00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:58,440
Speaker 2: I had only made two friends.

891
00:43:58,239 --> 00:43:58,799
Speaker 1: This day, so.

892
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:04,239
Speaker 3: Right, so I'm turning around and I'm going, oh god,

893
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 3: what do I do here? And both of my friends

894
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:10,719
Speaker 3: are like, yeah, you're okay, we've got you. So I

895
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 3: turn into freaking Wolf of Wall Street at this point

896
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:16,359
Speaker 3: because everyone's always told me you don't show your fear, like,

897
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 3: just stand up for yourself, stand your ground. So I

898
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:21,799
Speaker 3: start banging on my chest. I'm like, I'm not going anywhere,

899
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:26,319
Speaker 3: like I fucking leave it, right, and then this girl

900
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 3: starts counting sixty fifty nine fifty eight, and all of

901
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 3: her friends around her, for some reason, start singing.

902
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:38,319
Speaker 2: That what's it that rspc CT that's what do you know?

903
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:40,760
Speaker 2: There is that song? Don't know what?

904
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:41,240
Speaker 1: Okay?

905
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:44,920
Speaker 3: That And then we are fairly don't know, just trying

906
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:49,240
Speaker 3: to create that like weird intimidation. So she starts counting,

907
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 3: they start singing. I'm looking around for whoever I can,

908
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:55,360
Speaker 3: being like, oh mind you, we're the only white girls

909
00:44:55,640 --> 00:45:00,399
Speaker 3: here in this situation. So start counting, start counting. Get

910
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:03,319
Speaker 3: to one, I'm still screaming the same thing. I'm not

911
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:06,200
Speaker 3: going anywhere. I was like, bring your friend out. I

912
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:08,279
Speaker 3: said my issues with her, not with you, da da

913
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 3: da da wouldn't hear it. I think she got to

914
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:14,440
Speaker 3: like four or three, someone jumps out from behind her

915
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:16,799
Speaker 3: and just punches me in the mouth. So then as

916
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:20,560
Speaker 3: that happens, I sort of swing to the left, see

917
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 3: the girls behind me. I go like this is if

918
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:25,719
Speaker 3: to be like this is happening. And then it just

919
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 3: swarms like it turns into like a freakin' footy scrum.

920
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 2: It was insane.

921
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 3: And then this is mind you, this is right out

922
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:36,080
Speaker 3: the front of all of the stuff, like the stuff office.

923
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 3: So I'm trying to scream as that as I can,

924
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:40,719
Speaker 3: being like maybe it'll cause something they'll realize.

925
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 2: That something's happening.

926
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:43,440
Speaker 3: It'll get broken up. I wasn't ready for this, right,

927
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:48,600
Speaker 3: no way, anyway, get here in the mouth, turn back around,

928
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 3: start swinging, doing whatever I can. I get hit in

929
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:52,880
Speaker 3: the back of the head.

930
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:53,799
Speaker 2: I fall.

931
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:56,880
Speaker 3: I was getting kicked in the ribs or whatever else.

932
00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 3: And then I don't know if I passed out. I

933
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:01,600
Speaker 3: don't know what happened. All I remember is it gets

934
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:06,880
Speaker 3: broken up. I'm mid panic attack at this point, meaning

935
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 3: crying so hard there's snot in my mouth, like I'm horrified.

936
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:14,359
Speaker 1: Oh your big girls, what's up with your Oh?

937
00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:19,399
Speaker 2: The audacity? Right? How do I be scared? And I

938
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:22,200
Speaker 2: just remember being handcuffed, hands beha my back.

939
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:24,720
Speaker 3: I'm sitting on the ground and this one officer lifts

940
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:28,760
Speaker 3: me up by the handcuffs. He goes, you're safe, You're okay,

941
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:31,680
Speaker 3: there's nothing wrong with you. We're moving you away now.

942
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:37,480
Speaker 3: He goes, stop fucking crying, You're okay, be proud.

943
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:40,759
Speaker 2: So I put my head off, catching my snot in my.

944
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 3: I put my head up and I walk out, and

945
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:45,799
Speaker 3: I'm just sort of like nodding my head as if

946
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:48,440
Speaker 3: to say like I'm okay, Like you didn't you didn't

947
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:48,759
Speaker 3: you get me.

948
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, anyway, I get moved.

949
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:56,920
Speaker 3: To segregated cells, and by then I let everything out.

950
00:46:56,960 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 3: I'm losing it because I'm going I don't know what

951
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:01,440
Speaker 3: happens from here. You know that was minimum security, so

952
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:04,480
Speaker 3: I either stay there or I go to protection. I'm

953
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:07,760
Speaker 3: not going to protection, no fucking way. So I'm losing

954
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:11,080
Speaker 3: it waiting for you know what's happened. Next, the governor

955
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:13,759
Speaker 3: comes in. She sits down with me, and she goes, look,

956
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:16,200
Speaker 3: I've done this for fifteen years.

957
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 2: She said.

958
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:19,240
Speaker 3: I see this a lot. She goes, you know, pretty

959
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:21,759
Speaker 3: girl like you comes in. Everyone has something to say

960
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:23,480
Speaker 3: about it. She goes, you're practically the home and away

961
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 3: in this situation.

962
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:26,719
Speaker 2: You know drama. They love that.

963
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 3: And she said, so what do you want to do.

964
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:32,120
Speaker 3: I said, you're not putting me back out there because

965
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 3: I will die and I know that. I said, I'm

966
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:36,520
Speaker 3: not looking over my shoulder for the rest of my sentence.

967
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:38,799
Speaker 3: I said, but you're not sending me to protection either.

968
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:39,279
Speaker 2: There's no way.

969
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 3: I've done nothing wrong. Why should I go there? I said,

970
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:44,280
Speaker 3: so what are you going to do? And she goes, okay,

971
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:47,279
Speaker 3: She goes, I'm going to send you to maximum I

972
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 3: go maximum security. I was like, what with the killers

973
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 3: and the girls that are doing you know, ten years plus.

974
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 3: I go, that sounds like a great idea. And she goes,

975
00:47:57,719 --> 00:47:59,759
Speaker 3: before you say anything, she goes, this is a good

976
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:02,759
Speaker 3: thing you. She goes, there's only like thirty girls to

977
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:05,919
Speaker 3: each unit. She said, it's drama free. Girls just want

978
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:08,160
Speaker 3: to do their time. They don't give a shit. There's

979
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:10,839
Speaker 3: no drama. There's you know, it's a lot less than

980
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:13,840
Speaker 3: what you just experience. So she said, please trust me,

981
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:16,879
Speaker 3: I'm going to send you there. And then from there

982
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 3: I got thrown in there with no shoes, no property, nothing,

983
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:24,320
Speaker 3: And then from there it was that, honestly, was probably

984
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:24,960
Speaker 3: the best time I.

985
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:28,879
Speaker 1: Had right in the in the maximum maximum security. Well

986
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:32,239
Speaker 1: what a story. But like, full credit for you for

987
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 1: standing your ground on it, and that that's a test.

988
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 1: Everyone that goes to prison talks about the tests. At

989
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:40,560
Speaker 1: some stage it's going to come, and I'm.

990
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 2: Just glad it came earlier on.

991
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:45,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but it's a horrible thing to ye walk

992
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:51,080
Speaker 1: around with that when you went to maximum security, did

993
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:54,600
Speaker 1: you change your attitude or how did you survive in prison?

994
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:58,480
Speaker 1: In there, like not just physically mentally, emotionally was what

995
00:48:58,560 --> 00:48:59,200
Speaker 1: was the secret?

996
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:02,719
Speaker 3: I think I just came to the conclusion when I

997
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 3: was in minimum, although it was such a short stay,

998
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:09,440
Speaker 3: I really tried to blend in. I did whatever I

999
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:11,880
Speaker 3: could to sort of lay low, because that's what everyone tells.

1000
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:14,920
Speaker 3: You don't get involved in the drug game, don't you know,

1001
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:16,359
Speaker 3: stick out too much.

1002
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 1: Just try to do it.

1003
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 3: I've never been that great girl. I've never fit in,

1004
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:25,960
Speaker 3: whether I wanted to or not. I've just it's not

1005
00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:28,359
Speaker 3: my personality, it's not my looks nor whatever. Just never

1006
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:33,560
Speaker 3: fit in. So recognized that didn't work. So I was like,

1007
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:36,120
Speaker 3: you know what, if I can't fit in, I'm going

1008
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 3: to stand out. I'm going to stand up.

1009
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:41,960
Speaker 2: Fuck it. I started recognizing very early on that there

1010
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:42,560
Speaker 2: were all these.

1011
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:45,239
Speaker 3: Inconsistencies in women's prisons. So I'm going to make sure

1012
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:46,920
Speaker 3: I'm the one that tries to work on them or

1013
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:49,279
Speaker 3: fix them. And that's what I did. Although I was

1014
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 3: extremely limited in maximum security, they moved me several months

1015
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:57,440
Speaker 3: later to minimum up in Kempsey, and that's where I

1016
00:49:57,480 --> 00:50:00,040
Speaker 3: really started to put the work in let's call.

1017
00:49:59,880 --> 00:50:04,520
Speaker 1: It and agitating for prisoner's rights and we should change

1018
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:06,960
Speaker 1: this and change that is that the type of thing

1019
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:07,600
Speaker 1: you're talking.

1020
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:09,080
Speaker 2: About, absolutely like it was.

1021
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:12,439
Speaker 1: So you became the loud voice in the yard.

1022
00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:16,279
Speaker 3: I became a delegate absolutely, so I was known at

1023
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 3: the start, I was known as a scrim which is

1024
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:21,440
Speaker 3: basically like a screw criminal.

1025
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:23,360
Speaker 2: So you basically work with the officers.

1026
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 3: But I thought, you know what, if you're that small

1027
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:30,200
Speaker 3: minded to put me on that and make me out

1028
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:31,920
Speaker 3: as if to be like I'm against all of you

1029
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:34,920
Speaker 3: and I'm the one that's trying to actually get things

1030
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:37,960
Speaker 3: running for you, guys here, fucking try me. You know,

1031
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:41,800
Speaker 3: I more or less one of things done for myself.

1032
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:44,319
Speaker 3: I recognized that I didn't have anything available to me.

1033
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:48,920
Speaker 3: I didn't have any education, self development program, nothing, nothing,

1034
00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:52,440
Speaker 3: not even a gym facility. So I'm going, Okay, I

1035
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:54,239
Speaker 3: want all of these things for myself. But then I'm

1036
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:57,160
Speaker 3: looking behind me, I'm going none of these like, no

1037
00:50:57,160 --> 00:51:01,000
Speaker 3: one has anything available. Women, men get a thing. We're

1038
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:04,719
Speaker 3: the minority. So I'm going, okay, how can I fix this,

1039
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:07,239
Speaker 3: not only like a personal level, how can I fix

1040
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 3: with everyone else here?

1041
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:13,279
Speaker 1: Just a couple of things. That was a clever strategy

1042
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:16,359
Speaker 1: in your mind to change. Okay, Well, I can't blend in. Well,

1043
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:19,120
Speaker 1: I'm going to stand out and just be who I am.

1044
00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:23,480
Speaker 1: That's a yeah, it's a good strategy there because other

1045
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:25,879
Speaker 1: people might have just well, I've just got to keep

1046
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:28,839
Speaker 1: my head down even more, and that was not going

1047
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:31,799
Speaker 1: to work with end in tears again, not that you cry,

1048
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:35,279
Speaker 1: you just have. You just had a running nose when

1049
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:39,040
Speaker 1: they bashed you. Okay. So, and I know this is

1050
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:42,520
Speaker 1: something in our conversations before the podcast, very important to

1051
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:45,239
Speaker 1: you about women in prison and how we could make

1052
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:48,440
Speaker 1: it a better place. I acknowledge I was native to

1053
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:50,600
Speaker 1: it until it's been pointed out by quite a few

1054
00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:53,839
Speaker 1: women that have come on the podcast that we don't

1055
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:56,879
Speaker 1: get the type of things that are available to men

1056
00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:00,319
Speaker 1: in men's prisons. So talk us through that, the union

1057
00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:01,839
Speaker 1: delegate there, How could it.

1058
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:04,359
Speaker 3: Be improved in so many ways more than one, But

1059
00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:09,840
Speaker 3: to be honest, just education and upskilling, like I remember, so,

1060
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:13,200
Speaker 3: don't get me wrong. There were courses available, but they

1061
00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:17,680
Speaker 3: were very like mindset or just minimal, Like there were

1062
00:52:17,719 --> 00:52:20,000
Speaker 3: booklets that we were all doing that was coloring in

1063
00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:22,280
Speaker 3: like stuff that you'd give to a child. And I'm going,

1064
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:28,920
Speaker 3: you're literally receiving women you're receiving a captured audience that

1065
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:31,680
Speaker 3: are sober for the first time in their lives, that

1066
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:35,520
Speaker 3: are away from every destruction that they know, every responsibility

1067
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:37,919
Speaker 3: that they know. You've got them in their truest, most

1068
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:39,840
Speaker 3: like pure form possible.

1069
00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:42,239
Speaker 2: So why not do something with it? You know?

1070
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 3: And I met I became close with so many women

1071
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:49,000
Speaker 3: that were doing like six seven, eight years and whenever

1072
00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:51,800
Speaker 3: the like previous to me coming they were being told

1073
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:55,080
Speaker 3: in terms of like tape courses or any form of

1074
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:59,799
Speaker 3: education that they were either not doing enough time to

1075
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:00,640
Speaker 3: feel a course.

1076
00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:03,279
Speaker 2: Or they were doing too much time. What does that

1077
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:05,960
Speaker 2: even mean? Too much time? You know?

1078
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:09,680
Speaker 3: So it aggravated me so much. And then sitting in

1079
00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:13,560
Speaker 3: these programs as well, where everything was about mindset and

1080
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:17,719
Speaker 3: being mindful, like mindfulness, Like these women would have had

1081
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:19,960
Speaker 3: no idea about any of this stuff prior to incarcerations.

1082
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:22,200
Speaker 3: So it's like, why cant you just pick up at

1083
00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:24,120
Speaker 3: a place of like, oh, let's learn how to meditate

1084
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:27,600
Speaker 3: when we should be learning. Okay, why should you learn

1085
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 3: to meditate?

1086
00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:30,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's got to be more and more depth to it.

1087
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:34,320
Speaker 3: Perhaps just deal with the initial trauma or like what

1088
00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:37,319
Speaker 3: what is it that makes you tick or what is

1089
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:39,440
Speaker 3: it that has upset you that has made you commit

1090
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:43,960
Speaker 3: this crime? You know, no one, no one is passionate

1091
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:47,040
Speaker 3: enough about getting to the root cause of this is

1092
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:48,359
Speaker 3: why you did what you did.

1093
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:49,520
Speaker 2: Let's talk about.

1094
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:51,680
Speaker 1: It, and you've got to sort that base out then

1095
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:53,680
Speaker 1: build on from there, absolutely.

1096
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:56,480
Speaker 3: Because otherwise you're just doing what my entire childhood does

1097
00:53:56,520 --> 00:53:58,480
Speaker 3: and you slap in a band aid over it, going

1098
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:00,560
Speaker 3: here's a simple fix. But that's exact who what drugs

1099
00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:04,520
Speaker 3: do of? Okay, we won't acknowledge what's happened to you.

1100
00:54:04,680 --> 00:54:07,320
Speaker 3: We can admit that you're here because of a shit situation.

1101
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:10,080
Speaker 3: But oh, here's how you deal with it with a

1102
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:11,520
Speaker 3: couple breath work.

1103
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:15,400
Speaker 1: Or yeah, I do get it. There needs to be

1104
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:17,440
Speaker 1: more depth to it. Then you've got to get to

1105
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:20,200
Speaker 1: the root cause of the problem and then build from there.

1106
00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:21,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I get it.

1107
00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:25,799
Speaker 3: While there needs to be some form of punishment level,

1108
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:28,600
Speaker 3: all it is is punishment in there. It's not rehabilitation

1109
00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:32,399
Speaker 3: or rehabilitation means dealing with the root cause and then

1110
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:33,080
Speaker 3: moving forward.

1111
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:36,960
Speaker 1: My view on the prisons have changed since I've been

1112
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:40,040
Speaker 1: out of the cops, because before I do the job,

1113
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:43,959
Speaker 1: get a case investigator, put the person before the court

1114
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:45,759
Speaker 1: and then move on to the next case, not really

1115
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:48,960
Speaker 1: thinking what happens here. But my eyes have been opened

1116
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:51,319
Speaker 1: on this podcast and people have met since I've left.

1117
00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:54,719
Speaker 1: The cops very much say about the world's a better

1118
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:58,960
Speaker 1: place and this is not all airy fairy stuff. If

1119
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:01,920
Speaker 1: we want to reduce crime, stop people reoffending, So if

1120
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:04,480
Speaker 1: people go into jail, if we can create people to

1121
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:08,480
Speaker 1: come out better versions of themselves, everyone's a winner. And

1122
00:55:08,719 --> 00:55:11,440
Speaker 1: I spoke to some victims of crime about that, like,

1123
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:14,440
Speaker 1: is this getting soft on prison? And the narrative is no,

1124
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:19,080
Speaker 1: it's getting smart. It's being smart and everyone, well not everyone.

1125
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:21,319
Speaker 1: A lot of people are going to Most people are

1126
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:24,440
Speaker 1: released from prison, so they're going to come back into society.

1127
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:27,279
Speaker 1: So don't we want to give them the tools that

1128
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:30,719
Speaker 1: they can function in society. And the other thing is

1129
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:33,520
Speaker 1: about punishment, And this is sort of changement review too,

1130
00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:37,120
Speaker 1: And I'm not a softy, bleeding heart that the punishment

1131
00:55:37,239 --> 00:55:39,640
Speaker 1: is being taken away from society. We don't have to

1132
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:42,719
Speaker 1: have them in breaking rocks and eating bread and water.

1133
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:45,520
Speaker 1: We should be trying to help these people so they

1134
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:48,480
Speaker 1: don't reoffend. Is that the sort of narrative viewer on

1135
00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:51,720
Speaker 1: because it's something that I'm passionate about now. I honestly

1136
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:54,120
Speaker 1: believe that is a better way of fighting crime than

1137
00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:57,520
Speaker 1: by the time I turned up after someone's dead and

1138
00:55:57,640 --> 00:55:59,959
Speaker 1: we put handcuffs on someone and put them before the court.

1139
00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:01,319
Speaker 2: I completely agree with you.

1140
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:04,680
Speaker 3: I honestly think sending a person to jail does not

1141
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:08,200
Speaker 3: reduce the rates of recidivism, doesn't reduce the rates of reoffending.

1142
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:11,120
Speaker 3: Like you're sending a person to a place where they're

1143
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:13,960
Speaker 3: basically put in Middle Earth. They're not being held accountable

1144
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:17,239
Speaker 3: for their actions at all because they don't speak about them.

1145
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:20,719
Speaker 3: There's you know, oh you've done this, okay, so we're

1146
00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:22,640
Speaker 3: just going to leave you in a place for however

1147
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:26,719
Speaker 3: many months, years, whatever. But everything's done for them. So

1148
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:29,319
Speaker 3: I'm not saying it's not easy, but I'm saying it's

1149
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:32,239
Speaker 3: not hard either. Yeah, like you're in Middle Earth. There's

1150
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:35,080
Speaker 3: no accountability, there's no rehabilitation, there's nothing.

1151
00:56:35,160 --> 00:56:38,279
Speaker 1: And I think you've also acknowledged that there needs to

1152
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:41,360
Speaker 1: be that deterrent to the crime. But the deterrent is

1153
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:43,800
Speaker 1: going to prison. That was the thing that changed you.

1154
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:46,000
Speaker 1: You're saying, well, it's probably the best thing in hindsight

1155
00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:48,680
Speaker 1: that happened to me. But if I understand what you're saying,

1156
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:51,080
Speaker 1: that's because the work that you've done on yourself. You

1157
00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:55,200
Speaker 1: don't think the system itself is set up to Yeah,

1158
00:56:55,239 --> 00:56:57,799
Speaker 1: you're one of the lucky ones or the ones, one

1159
00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:00,400
Speaker 1: of the people that put work into yourself, But we

1160
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:02,520
Speaker 1: want to make it available for everyone. Is that what

1161
00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:03,320
Speaker 1: you're saying?

1162
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:08,239
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and no discreditation to corrective services and what they're

1163
00:57:08,239 --> 00:57:10,160
Speaker 3: trying to do. I understand it comes down to a

1164
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:12,879
Speaker 3: resource level and things that they have available to them,

1165
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:16,160
Speaker 3: but more things do need to be more available because

1166
00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:20,120
Speaker 3: you're leaving people to their own devices. Like, it's not

1167
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:23,440
Speaker 3: I changed because I made that decision that that's not

1168
00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:25,000
Speaker 3: my life, that I'm not going to spend the rest

1169
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:26,240
Speaker 3: of my life in and out of jail.

1170
00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:29,120
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, most women that go to jail do.

1171
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:33,480
Speaker 3: I've literally lost friends, people that I thought were more

1172
00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:37,560
Speaker 3: normal than normal than me. I ran into in jail,

1173
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:40,240
Speaker 3: and now I find out that they're still in jail

1174
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:43,560
Speaker 3: and have continuously gone back. Why Because that's what they

1175
00:57:43,640 --> 00:57:46,919
Speaker 3: settle for, Because the system doesn't teach them that they're

1176
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:50,520
Speaker 3: worth anything more than that that they can have a

1177
00:57:50,520 --> 00:57:54,520
Speaker 3: fresh start that they are capable of doing more.

1178
00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:55,920
Speaker 2: Because they're not provided with anything.

1179
00:57:56,440 --> 00:58:01,120
Speaker 3: So okay, different story if they're upskilled, if they're if

1180
00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:04,320
Speaker 3: there's some form of glistening hope that's provided to these women,

1181
00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:06,720
Speaker 3: that's like, Okay, you haven't had that life before, it

1182
00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:09,520
Speaker 3: doesn't mean you're not capable of living this one when

1183
00:58:09,560 --> 00:58:10,040
Speaker 3: you get out.

1184
00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:12,640
Speaker 1: And it's kind of that. The support on the outside

1185
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:15,160
Speaker 1: is important too, and you were fortunately. I think you'd

1186
00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:16,680
Speaker 1: be the first to admit that that you had a

1187
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:19,080
Speaker 1: loving family and the support the family round you, and

1188
00:58:19,120 --> 00:58:21,000
Speaker 1: that must have helped so much.

1189
00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:23,200
Speaker 3: And that's what's driven the work that I do today

1190
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:26,680
Speaker 3: is that I acknowledged that I was probably the one

1191
00:58:26,720 --> 00:58:31,160
Speaker 3: percent of female or even just inmate in general that

1192
00:58:31,240 --> 00:58:34,520
Speaker 3: has that ongoing support on the outside that's willing to

1193
00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:38,360
Speaker 3: do anything to see me succeed, you know. But I

1194
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:41,120
Speaker 3: recognized very early on that no one had that. And

1195
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:44,640
Speaker 3: while that is challenging, it also comes down like a

1196
00:58:44,760 --> 00:58:48,040
Speaker 3: massive part of it is having that support for yourself.

1197
00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:50,640
Speaker 2: Like if you I saw people.

1198
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:53,160
Speaker 3: That had family support, that had friends support, that had

1199
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:57,720
Speaker 3: financial support, doesn't mean shit until you decide that you

1200
00:58:57,760 --> 00:58:59,680
Speaker 3: want a better life or you decide that you're worth

1201
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:00,200
Speaker 3: more than that.

1202
00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:02,880
Speaker 2: Nothing's going to change you.

1203
00:59:02,880 --> 00:59:07,120
Speaker 1: You ended up spending seventeen months. Yeah, okay, how that

1204
00:59:07,160 --> 00:59:08,200
Speaker 1: feel when you got out.

1205
00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:10,000
Speaker 2: Weird?

1206
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:14,120
Speaker 3: I would imagine that would freaking did Like, so I

1207
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:16,080
Speaker 3: spent the last six months.

1208
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:19,920
Speaker 2: Okay, So Kempsey, which is where I spent the majority

1209
00:59:19,960 --> 00:59:23,040
Speaker 2: of my sentence, was awesome. Ye, not a big compound.

1210
00:59:23,120 --> 00:59:25,840
Speaker 3: I think there was about eighty girls there, but that's

1211
00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:30,920
Speaker 3: where I really got to flourish and work with officers

1212
00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:33,200
Speaker 3: who actually gave a fuck about their jobs and actually

1213
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:34,720
Speaker 3: wanted to see better.

1214
00:59:35,080 --> 00:59:38,320
Speaker 1: I'm glad you acknowledged because I know the narrative visits

1215
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:41,080
Speaker 1: blue and the Green and yeah, never shall we meet

1216
00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:44,680
Speaker 1: or show any connection. But there are some people deserve

1217
00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:47,280
Speaker 1: to be criticized in coreactive services. But there's some great

1218
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:50,760
Speaker 1: people in there too, isn't he people that genuinely care? Oh?

1219
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:53,960
Speaker 3: There were so many officers that made my time hard

1220
00:59:54,200 --> 00:59:58,640
Speaker 3: or that you know, I couldn't imagine saying on the outside.

1221
00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:04,320
Speaker 3: But there were also, in turns, so many that recognize

1222
01:00:04,360 --> 01:00:06,360
Speaker 3: I recognized that they were there for the right reasons,

1223
01:00:06,600 --> 01:00:10,000
Speaker 3: and you know, I would start to have these conversations

1224
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:12,320
Speaker 3: with them about you know, what their life is like

1225
01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:16,080
Speaker 3: or why they want to help. And so many had brothers, sisters,

1226
01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:19,480
Speaker 3: you know, people that had people in their lives that

1227
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:22,120
Speaker 3: had faced the system and that were either treated poorly

1228
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:25,640
Speaker 3: or didn't get the necessarily like the right outcome, so

1229
01:00:25,720 --> 01:00:26,840
Speaker 3: they wanted to make a difference.

1230
01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:29,320
Speaker 2: You know. They all had an interesting backstory.

1231
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:32,520
Speaker 3: And so why I loved that place so much is

1232
01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:35,520
Speaker 3: because these were the offices that actually helped me to

1233
01:00:35,560 --> 01:00:36,200
Speaker 3: get things going.

1234
01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:37,800
Speaker 2: So I managed to get programs running.

1235
01:00:37,800 --> 01:00:40,040
Speaker 3: I managed to get white cards for the girls or

1236
01:00:40,040 --> 01:00:43,360
Speaker 3: fitness programs, you know, and I know that that's stuff

1237
01:00:43,400 --> 01:00:46,760
Speaker 3: that would now still be in place, you know, upon

1238
01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:49,000
Speaker 3: me leaving there, I'll never forget.

1239
01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:49,920
Speaker 2: It was the funniest thing.

1240
01:00:50,040 --> 01:00:54,440
Speaker 3: So I was luckily I got accepted into a transitional center,

1241
01:00:54,680 --> 01:00:57,440
Speaker 3: which is basically a place where you can work or

1242
01:00:57,480 --> 01:01:00,280
Speaker 3: study so and wear normal clothes that aren't green. So

1243
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:04,800
Speaker 3: that was awesome. But upon me leaving, I got called

1244
01:01:04,840 --> 01:01:07,360
Speaker 3: into the Governor's office and I was like did I

1245
01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:09,600
Speaker 3: walked in and I was the only inmate in there,

1246
01:01:10,160 --> 01:01:13,080
Speaker 3: and there was about five six officers. I'm going, oh

1247
01:01:13,120 --> 01:01:16,480
Speaker 3: my gosh, right, it immediately as an inmate you're going

1248
01:01:16,560 --> 01:01:18,880
Speaker 3: I've done something wrong with something bad is about to happen.

1249
01:01:20,080 --> 01:01:21,840
Speaker 2: And I walked in and I was still trying to

1250
01:01:21,840 --> 01:01:25,920
Speaker 2: be cocky. I was like, yeah, what's up. Everything okay?

1251
01:01:26,120 --> 01:01:28,360
Speaker 3: And the governor actually sat me down and she said,

1252
01:01:28,480 --> 01:01:31,320
Speaker 3: you're literally the success story. And she said, I just

1253
01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:34,400
Speaker 3: want to thank you. She said, you've bridged the gap

1254
01:01:34,440 --> 01:01:37,760
Speaker 3: between blue and green. She said, you've helped us realize

1255
01:01:38,200 --> 01:01:41,480
Speaker 3: what we need to change or what we're capable of changing.

1256
01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:43,240
Speaker 2: So she said, I want to thank you, and she

1257
01:01:43,280 --> 01:01:44,000
Speaker 2: gave me a cake.

1258
01:01:44,320 --> 01:01:46,600
Speaker 3: Wow, I know, and it was incredible because all I

1259
01:01:46,600 --> 01:01:49,320
Speaker 3: could think about was imagine one of these inmates see

1260
01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:51,160
Speaker 3: me walk out right now, they're going to think, oh

1261
01:01:51,200 --> 01:01:52,880
Speaker 3: my god, biggest dog in the world. But at the

1262
01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:56,160
Speaker 3: same time, I was like, you know what I'm or

1263
01:01:56,200 --> 01:01:59,040
Speaker 3: I did or I'm doing what too many people have

1264
01:01:59,120 --> 01:02:01,600
Speaker 3: been scared to do. Yeah. So I was so proud.

1265
01:02:01,640 --> 01:02:03,480
Speaker 3: I was so proud in that moment. Yeah, so you

1266
01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:05,360
Speaker 3: should be Everything made sense in that moment.

1267
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:08,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. Since you've been out, you've been working with Comfit,

1268
01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:11,560
Speaker 1: and we've had Joe and a few others on the

1269
01:02:11,960 --> 01:02:15,040
Speaker 1: cross paths with Comfit. Tell us what Comfit's about because

1270
01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:16,840
Speaker 1: I think that's a great concept as well.

1271
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:20,120
Speaker 3: It's amazing and I can't give enough credit to Joe

1272
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:24,440
Speaker 3: and what he's created for confit in itself, but also

1273
01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:29,840
Speaker 3: every person with lived experience, and he's really made us

1274
01:02:29,880 --> 01:02:34,560
Speaker 3: feel like anything's possible. So Comfit is basically and not

1275
01:02:34,600 --> 01:02:37,960
Speaker 3: for profit. We offer mentoring services to young people that

1276
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:42,240
Speaker 3: are incarcerated. So originally it just started in juvenile centers

1277
01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:44,800
Speaker 3: in New South Wales, but now I've extended to regional

1278
01:02:45,240 --> 01:02:47,880
Speaker 3: so we run like digital hubs that kind of thing.

1279
01:02:48,480 --> 01:02:51,880
Speaker 3: And this man's mind is insane, like he doesn't stop

1280
01:02:51,920 --> 01:02:54,440
Speaker 3: coming up with new and fresh ideas of how we

1281
01:02:54,480 --> 01:02:58,960
Speaker 3: can help the system and those that currently face the system.

1282
01:02:59,080 --> 01:03:01,720
Speaker 3: So yeah, I work with Confident at the moment. I

1283
01:03:01,800 --> 01:03:08,720
Speaker 3: basically I'm the female leader of the female juvenile Justice space.

1284
01:03:08,920 --> 01:03:11,840
Speaker 3: So we going twice a week. I work with two

1285
01:03:11,880 --> 01:03:15,400
Speaker 3: other awesome mentors, my closest friends, and Yeah, we go

1286
01:03:15,480 --> 01:03:18,560
Speaker 3: in there, we run about a forty five minute workout

1287
01:03:18,760 --> 01:03:21,320
Speaker 3: and then we speak. We do a little bit of

1288
01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:24,800
Speaker 3: mentoring about all of the subjects that are really important

1289
01:03:24,800 --> 01:03:27,480
Speaker 3: to us personally and kind of like what's helped us progress.

1290
01:03:27,680 --> 01:03:31,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's all ex prisoners, so all life experience.

1291
01:03:31,720 --> 01:03:35,320
Speaker 3: Not necessarily all ex prisoners, majority of yes. But then

1292
01:03:35,360 --> 01:03:38,840
Speaker 3: there's also others that have faced you know, ten plus

1293
01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:40,600
Speaker 3: years of addiction, homelessness.

1294
01:03:40,760 --> 01:03:44,160
Speaker 1: Okay, so you broad with Joe. When the first started,

1295
01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:46,320
Speaker 1: it was people that serve time.

1296
01:03:46,560 --> 01:03:49,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, look, we've I think we came well, Joe

1297
01:03:49,760 --> 01:03:52,480
Speaker 3: came to find or I did, like during the hiring

1298
01:03:52,520 --> 01:03:55,280
Speaker 3: process as well. But it's very hard to find a

1299
01:03:55,360 --> 01:04:00,080
Speaker 3: female that has that prison experience that then wants to

1300
01:04:00,440 --> 01:04:02,840
Speaker 3: kind of make a yeah, to make a career path

1301
01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:03,240
Speaker 3: out of it.

1302
01:04:03,480 --> 01:04:06,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but it must be rewarding work, Like, if

1303
01:04:06,800 --> 01:04:09,240
Speaker 1: you're making the difference in someone's life.

1304
01:04:09,720 --> 01:04:13,480
Speaker 3: It's unbelievable to almost And it's a two way street,

1305
01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:18,720
Speaker 3: right because for all of us mentors, it's so rewarding

1306
01:04:18,880 --> 01:04:20,880
Speaker 3: to be able to make sense of all the shit

1307
01:04:20,920 --> 01:04:23,960
Speaker 3: that we've been through, whether we've had family members in

1308
01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:26,840
Speaker 3: prison or family members addicted to drugs and we've helped them,

1309
01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:29,640
Speaker 3: or we started falling down that path in life, or

1310
01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:32,880
Speaker 3: you know, we've been through it ourselves. To be able

1311
01:04:32,920 --> 01:04:35,400
Speaker 3: to make sense of all the mess in our lives,

1312
01:04:35,600 --> 01:04:37,320
Speaker 3: it's such a beautiful thing to do. That week in,

1313
01:04:37,360 --> 01:04:40,360
Speaker 3: week out. And don't get me wrong, like these young

1314
01:04:40,400 --> 01:04:42,680
Speaker 3: people test us like I don't know if you remember,

1315
01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:44,880
Speaker 3: I'm sure you would have dealt with your fair share

1316
01:04:44,920 --> 01:04:48,560
Speaker 3: of you know, fifteen sixteen year old people little shits. Yeah,

1317
01:04:48,600 --> 01:04:51,360
Speaker 3: and while the respect element is there, oh my god,

1318
01:04:51,400 --> 01:04:54,280
Speaker 3: they test us every week. But it's beautiful to see

1319
01:04:54,280 --> 01:04:58,560
Speaker 3: the progression, to actually see there will be so many minimal,

1320
01:04:58,680 --> 01:05:02,760
Speaker 3: minor moments, but we do have these such special moments

1321
01:05:02,760 --> 01:05:05,120
Speaker 3: where we can see that we're impacting these young people's lives.

1322
01:05:05,360 --> 01:05:09,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's fantastic. You're also doing something else that

1323
01:05:09,080 --> 01:05:12,880
Speaker 1: you're getting up and running called inside out. Tell us

1324
01:05:12,880 --> 01:05:13,200
Speaker 1: about that.

1325
01:05:13,280 --> 01:05:14,920
Speaker 2: Better to be out than in that harp?

1326
01:05:15,520 --> 01:05:16,520
Speaker 1: Is that inside out?

1327
01:05:16,600 --> 01:05:16,800
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1328
01:05:16,840 --> 01:05:17,440
Speaker 1: Okay?

1329
01:05:17,800 --> 01:05:18,880
Speaker 2: But yees.

1330
01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:21,560
Speaker 3: So it was kind of a byproduct of confit, and

1331
01:05:21,760 --> 01:05:27,040
Speaker 3: it definitely happened accidentally a little bit premeditated, but it's

1332
01:05:27,120 --> 01:05:30,880
Speaker 3: kind of it's turned into something awesome. So from confit,

1333
01:05:31,040 --> 01:05:34,960
Speaker 3: I just I recognized working within the juvenile centers that

1334
01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:39,000
Speaker 3: there's such a niche or there's there's such a there's

1335
01:05:39,040 --> 01:05:42,440
Speaker 3: such a missing link, and that's from young people being

1336
01:05:42,600 --> 01:05:46,480
Speaker 3: supported inside to then being supported outside. While I can't

1337
01:05:46,480 --> 01:05:50,360
Speaker 3: fault that there aren't supportive services outside.

1338
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:51,800
Speaker 2: They haven't built the rapport.

1339
01:05:51,480 --> 01:05:54,840
Speaker 3: With these young people, which means that's like another few

1340
01:05:55,000 --> 01:05:57,520
Speaker 3: weeks months that they need to spend that time building

1341
01:05:57,560 --> 01:06:01,720
Speaker 3: that rapport, yeah, or that like just that trust element

1342
01:06:01,760 --> 01:06:05,800
Speaker 3: in general, but also in the same term, like when

1343
01:06:05,880 --> 01:06:07,920
Speaker 3: young people get out, they don't they don't want to

1344
01:06:07,920 --> 01:06:11,400
Speaker 3: be mentored or spoken to or directed by someone that

1345
01:06:11,520 --> 01:06:16,160
Speaker 3: has no similar experiences to them, that have textbook experience, right.

1346
01:06:16,240 --> 01:06:19,840
Speaker 3: So I immediately saw that missing that missing link and thought

1347
01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:24,320
Speaker 3: I can do something about this here. So yeah, I

1348
01:06:24,440 --> 01:06:27,400
Speaker 3: just basically started speaking with a lot of people within

1349
01:06:27,880 --> 01:06:30,200
Speaker 3: Department of Communities and Justice and said, I want to

1350
01:06:30,240 --> 01:06:32,720
Speaker 3: start mentoring these young girls that I already know so

1351
01:06:32,880 --> 01:06:37,040
Speaker 3: well when they're exiting prison, because the turnaround is so

1352
01:06:37,040 --> 01:06:38,760
Speaker 3: so quick for young women.

1353
01:06:39,280 --> 01:06:41,480
Speaker 1: You've met them when they're on the inside, and then

1354
01:06:41,680 --> 01:06:44,280
Speaker 1: you want to be involved when they get out.

1355
01:06:44,400 --> 01:06:47,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I am so yeah. So I already work

1356
01:06:47,480 --> 01:06:49,400
Speaker 3: with several young women at the moment. It's expanding, so

1357
01:06:49,440 --> 01:06:53,400
Speaker 3: we're getting male mentors as well. But it's basically about

1358
01:06:53,880 --> 01:06:57,400
Speaker 3: creating that pre and post interventions, So it doesn't even

1359
01:06:57,440 --> 01:07:01,880
Speaker 3: necessarily need to be young people that are lead EVN incarceration.

1360
01:07:02,240 --> 01:07:05,320
Speaker 3: It's more about people that are facing the justice system

1361
01:07:05,320 --> 01:07:07,160
Speaker 3: in any way, shape or form, or have dealings with

1362
01:07:08,360 --> 01:07:09,960
Speaker 3: and that have heard about us and they know that

1363
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:13,479
Speaker 3: where mentors with lived experience, We've we've done what they've

1364
01:07:13,480 --> 01:07:16,120
Speaker 3: been through. We've we've come out of it in a

1365
01:07:16,440 --> 01:07:18,880
Speaker 3: positive way, and now we've kind of used it to

1366
01:07:18,920 --> 01:07:22,360
Speaker 3: the best of our abilities and you know, have created

1367
01:07:22,400 --> 01:07:24,600
Speaker 3: a beautiful life because of it. They see that, they're

1368
01:07:24,600 --> 01:07:26,600
Speaker 3: inspired by it, and they want to be they want

1369
01:07:26,600 --> 01:07:27,280
Speaker 3: to work with us.

1370
01:07:27,360 --> 01:07:30,440
Speaker 1: Well, I see two benefits there. That you've got the

1371
01:07:30,480 --> 01:07:33,439
Speaker 1: lived experience, so they can relate to what you've been

1372
01:07:33,480 --> 01:07:35,880
Speaker 1: through and you can relate to what they're going through,

1373
01:07:36,240 --> 01:07:39,360
Speaker 1: so that that's ticked. But then inspiring them that look,

1374
01:07:39,440 --> 01:07:42,000
Speaker 1: no matter how bad your life goes, you can turn

1375
01:07:42,040 --> 01:07:44,360
Speaker 1: it round. So there's benefits all around.

1376
01:07:44,520 --> 01:07:48,160
Speaker 3: And it's almost like an accountability thing, like we can say,

1377
01:07:48,640 --> 01:07:50,680
Speaker 3: like we're pretty much the only people that can say

1378
01:07:51,560 --> 01:07:53,640
Speaker 3: the shit that you've been through or the environments that

1379
01:07:53,680 --> 01:07:55,480
Speaker 3: you've been in, it's not a fucking excuse.

1380
01:07:55,720 --> 01:07:57,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can turn it around. It's up to you.

1381
01:07:57,960 --> 01:08:01,600
Speaker 3: It's not you're You're not a byproduct of your environment,

1382
01:08:01,720 --> 01:08:05,240
Speaker 3: or your shitty decisions or the shitty things that you've experienced.

1383
01:08:05,480 --> 01:08:07,240
Speaker 3: You're a by product of your decisions.

1384
01:08:07,680 --> 01:08:10,920
Speaker 1: You do it like that, And I think a society

1385
01:08:11,120 --> 01:08:14,080
Speaker 1: these days, we need to own our actions, don't we.

1386
01:08:14,560 --> 01:08:17,840
Speaker 1: There's too many excuses why this happened or that happened.

1387
01:08:17,840 --> 01:08:20,560
Speaker 1: But getting that message across, I think that's important for

1388
01:08:20,640 --> 01:08:23,439
Speaker 1: kids when we're old, that we can look back and go, oh, well,

1389
01:08:23,479 --> 01:08:25,400
Speaker 1: it's because of this and that. But as a kid,

1390
01:08:25,520 --> 01:08:27,599
Speaker 1: if you've got excuses, you're going to grab them and

1391
01:08:27,760 --> 01:08:30,920
Speaker 1: hang on to it, and that's it in the right direction.

1392
01:08:31,120 --> 01:08:33,840
Speaker 3: Were literally like we learn from these young people every

1393
01:08:33,880 --> 01:08:37,160
Speaker 3: single day. Like kind of what kickstarted this for me

1394
01:08:37,479 --> 01:08:41,479
Speaker 3: was we were doing sort of like a value a

1395
01:08:41,520 --> 01:08:45,000
Speaker 3: session in confit based off of values, right, and so

1396
01:08:45,080 --> 01:08:48,760
Speaker 3: we're getting these girls to speak affirmations out loud or

1397
01:08:48,800 --> 01:08:50,840
Speaker 3: like speak on the ones that resonated with them. So

1398
01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:54,040
Speaker 3: imagine we're had a list of like twenty twenty affirmations

1399
01:08:54,600 --> 01:08:57,840
Speaker 3: and one of them was I'm not my past or

1400
01:08:57,880 --> 01:08:59,400
Speaker 3: I'm not the bad things that have happened to me.

1401
01:09:00,400 --> 01:09:02,160
Speaker 3: And this young girl, she would have only been like

1402
01:09:02,160 --> 01:09:04,559
Speaker 3: fifteen or sixteen, she comes up to me and she goes,

1403
01:09:04,600 --> 01:09:07,400
Speaker 3: I'm not okay with this one. I said, okay, but

1404
01:09:07,520 --> 01:09:09,479
Speaker 3: let's talk about it, like woyw aren't you okay with it?

1405
01:09:09,840 --> 01:09:12,120
Speaker 3: She goes, because it's not true. Said what do you mean?

1406
01:09:12,120 --> 01:09:16,200
Speaker 3: And she goes, we should own what we've experienced, or

1407
01:09:16,200 --> 01:09:18,760
Speaker 3: we should own the bad things that we've been through,

1408
01:09:18,760 --> 01:09:21,120
Speaker 3: all the bad decisions that we've made that has made

1409
01:09:21,120 --> 01:09:23,439
Speaker 3: who we are. It's what we do with it. Next,

1410
01:09:23,479 --> 01:09:25,439
Speaker 3: I was like, oh my goodness, Like I was just

1411
01:09:25,479 --> 01:09:29,080
Speaker 3: schooled by a fifteen years old, you know, and she's

1412
01:09:29,120 --> 01:09:32,080
Speaker 3: helped build the foundations of this business and she doesn't

1413
01:09:32,080 --> 01:09:34,800
Speaker 3: even know it. Like, we are our bad decisions. We

1414
01:09:34,920 --> 01:09:37,280
Speaker 3: are the bad things that's happened to us. It's what

1415
01:09:37,320 --> 01:09:38,280
Speaker 3: we decide to do with it.

1416
01:09:38,400 --> 01:09:38,799
Speaker 2: Next.

1417
01:09:39,120 --> 01:09:42,439
Speaker 1: Wow, yeah, okay, Well let's point in in the right direction.

1418
01:09:42,840 --> 01:09:45,280
Speaker 1: Do you look back now? And I think we started

1419
01:09:45,320 --> 01:09:47,559
Speaker 1: off the podcast saying it was the arrest of the

1420
01:09:47,560 --> 01:09:49,680
Speaker 1: best thing that's happened to you. You look at your

1421
01:09:49,680 --> 01:09:54,960
Speaker 1: life now and what you've been through regrets or it

1422
01:09:55,040 --> 01:09:56,840
Speaker 1: was a path that you had to take. What do

1423
01:09:56,920 --> 01:09:58,559
Speaker 1: you think this was a journey you had to take

1424
01:09:58,640 --> 01:10:00,000
Speaker 1: to become who you are now?

1425
01:10:00,600 --> 01:10:03,040
Speaker 3: I mean, I wouldn't recommend jail like I'd give it

1426
01:10:03,160 --> 01:10:05,280
Speaker 3: one and a half stars on tripid fise Far. I

1427
01:10:05,439 --> 01:10:08,760
Speaker 3: feel like it was definitely something I personally had to

1428
01:10:08,880 --> 01:10:11,320
Speaker 3: experience because it's stopped me in my tracks and sort

1429
01:10:11,320 --> 01:10:14,839
Speaker 3: of pivoted me into a new direction. In terms of remorse,

1430
01:10:15,800 --> 01:10:18,559
Speaker 3: I feel like my actions and the way I live

1431
01:10:18,600 --> 01:10:22,040
Speaker 3: my life now definitely speak on that. It wasn't an

1432
01:10:22,080 --> 01:10:24,599
Speaker 3: ideal situation what I went through, but it also wasn't

1433
01:10:24,920 --> 01:10:28,120
Speaker 3: an ideal outcome of what I did with it, you know,

1434
01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:31,040
Speaker 3: And so I feel like I'm kind of trying to

1435
01:10:31,040 --> 01:10:33,240
Speaker 3: make up for that in some way, shape or form.

1436
01:10:33,280 --> 01:10:34,240
Speaker 2: I've said of seen.

1437
01:10:35,120 --> 01:10:37,120
Speaker 3: While I can acknowledge the bad things I went through,

1438
01:10:38,240 --> 01:10:40,360
Speaker 3: like I see all of these young people go through,

1439
01:10:40,479 --> 01:10:43,400
Speaker 3: because none of these young women that I meet in

1440
01:10:43,520 --> 01:10:47,040
Speaker 3: jail have had an easy life, none of them. And

1441
01:10:47,200 --> 01:10:49,559
Speaker 3: it's to the point where every week I'm shocked, like

1442
01:10:50,080 --> 01:10:51,760
Speaker 3: some of these and I'm sure you can imagine some

1443
01:10:51,800 --> 01:10:54,599
Speaker 3: of the stories that you hear. It just mind boggling.

1444
01:10:54,680 --> 01:10:58,639
Speaker 3: But again, it doesn't give the excuse for shitty behavior.

1445
01:10:58,760 --> 01:11:01,719
Speaker 3: It doesn't give the excuse to make bad and ugly

1446
01:11:01,840 --> 01:11:05,840
Speaker 3: decisions that impact society. The impact families that you know,

1447
01:11:05,960 --> 01:11:09,320
Speaker 3: impact yourself in negative ways. So I think in all

1448
01:11:09,360 --> 01:11:12,879
Speaker 3: of my teachings and in all of basically in everything

1449
01:11:12,920 --> 01:11:15,360
Speaker 3: that I do in my life, you know, I always

1450
01:11:15,400 --> 01:11:18,400
Speaker 3: try to explain to everyone that it's not about what

1451
01:11:18,439 --> 01:11:20,160
Speaker 3: you went through, it's about what you do with it.

1452
01:11:20,360 --> 01:11:24,360
Speaker 3: So yeah, that shows that that's my remorse to some degree.

1453
01:11:24,640 --> 01:11:28,920
Speaker 1: Okay, well, I think that's a nice message to leave with. Really,

1454
01:11:29,200 --> 01:11:33,879
Speaker 1: there were so many I haven't even gone looked at.

1455
01:11:34,520 --> 01:11:36,800
Speaker 1: I've been enthralled by your story in the way that

1456
01:11:36,840 --> 01:11:39,880
Speaker 1: you've you've told the story, and like full credit to

1457
01:11:40,240 --> 01:11:41,960
Speaker 1: like what you're doing now and the work that you're

1458
01:11:41,960 --> 01:11:45,920
Speaker 1: doing now is so important. And I hope all the

1459
01:11:45,920 --> 01:11:47,720
Speaker 1: best for the future, and I hope you keep up

1460
01:11:47,760 --> 01:11:49,920
Speaker 1: the keep up the good work. And if we can

1461
01:11:49,960 --> 01:11:52,080
Speaker 1: help you here on eye catch killers in any way,

1462
01:11:52,080 --> 01:11:54,360
Speaker 1: put the message out, let the snap.

1463
01:11:54,320 --> 01:11:55,280
Speaker 2: Thank you, I'm excited.

1464
01:11:56,120 --> 01:12:03,479
Speaker 1: Cheers one in their two and two died in six