1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,840 Speaker 1: Yesterday, making it better every week since twenty thirteen. Mine 2 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:05,200 Speaker 1: Amzosha Ginsburg, thank you for being a part of the show, 3 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:08,960 Speaker 1: playing the highlights, playing the hits over the summer, bringing. 4 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 2: You some absolute gold from some of. 5 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: The magnificent conversations we have every single week here on 6 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 1: the show. In this episode, the divine Debra Francis White 7 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 1: from the Guilty Feminist podcast talks about why authenticity is overrated. 8 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 2: The formidable Harry. 9 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:26,760 Speaker 1: Garside opens up about what masculinity means to him and 10 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 1: why we should all choose to get a bit uncomfortable. 11 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:32,600 Speaker 1: And we'll kick off with the multi award winning multi 12 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 1: fantastic or multi magnificent Catherine Martin. 13 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 2: She's one more roscers than any other Australian person. 14 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: In my conversation with Catherine, we talk about creativity, self care, 15 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:45,199 Speaker 1: and here she talks about a few of the most 16 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 1: important factors in the way she works. 17 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 3: I think that the one thing that always contains you 18 00:00:55,120 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 3: is time. Time is a great leveler. That's something that 19 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:07,679 Speaker 3: you can never create, and so invariably in any endeavor 20 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 3: which has a time limit, like anyone can be a genius. 21 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 3: If you have as much money and time as you 22 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:20,319 Speaker 3: know that you could just keep stretching that forever. But 23 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:23,559 Speaker 3: one of the resources that you get less and less 24 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:26,959 Speaker 3: of as you get older and older is time. So 25 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:30,320 Speaker 3: I think that that is the one thing that keeps 26 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 3: you honest, because there are deadlines in life, and there 27 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 3: are deadlines in filmmaking, there's deadlines in theater, there are deadlines, 28 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 3: you know. I live in a practical industry where at 29 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:44,400 Speaker 3: some point someone's going to push a button and they're 30 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 3: going to turn camera and something has to be in 31 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 3: front of it. And I think that is what endlessly 32 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 3: keeps you resourceful. And I think too working with people 33 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:59,919 Speaker 3: who you know, I work with someone who constantly surprises 34 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 3: me and constantly has ideas that I didn't think of. 35 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 3: And I work with collaborators who challenge me on a 36 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 3: daily basis and have challenged me over years and years, 37 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 3: And that keeps you resourceful. And look, I don't know 38 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:19,520 Speaker 3: what it is about life, but I find the more 39 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 3: you feel that you're on top of something and you think, yep, yep, 40 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:27,680 Speaker 3: I've got this all sewn up. I know exactly what 41 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 3: I'm going to do. I'm going to show up tomorrow 42 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 3: and it's all going to be perfect. And invariably it's 43 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 3: in those cocky moments where you go for a bit 44 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 3: of a tumble and that keeps you honest too, and 45 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 3: you've just got to pick yourself up and in the 46 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 3: moment come up with a new idea. 47 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:47,920 Speaker 1: It's understandable people might think, here, I am, I have 48 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: four oscars. 49 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 2: Don't you challenge me? This is my vision? 50 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 1: What do you get out of working with people and 51 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 1: training the people that you work with? And it's okay 52 00:02:58,520 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: to question you what do you get out? Well? 53 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 3: I think that it's really hard for one individual to 54 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:08,920 Speaker 3: see something in three hundred and sixty degrees. You know, 55 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 3: there'll always be a blind spot, however open or undefensive 56 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 3: or whatever you're being, just because you are who you are. 57 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 3: There is a kind of a blind spot always in 58 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 3: what you're making or doing. And I think that when 59 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:31,279 Speaker 3: you have people that you can have an honest conversation 60 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 3: with and they can help you to see in a 61 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 3: more global way, you actually are pushed to have better 62 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 3: and more complete ideas and also to go outside your 63 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 3: comfort zone. And it's also less lonely, I mean, being 64 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 3: in conversation, it's a much happier place to be because 65 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 3: you're not alone. And that's one of the things I 66 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 3: really enjoy about the theater and about filmmaking, about my 67 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 3: work is that it's not just about me. You know, 68 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:16,359 Speaker 3: I have other people that I'm in constant conversation with, 69 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 3: and that means that it's a shared journey and somehow 70 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 3: that's a bit more satisfying than just being by yourself. 71 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:30,599 Speaker 1: I couldn't agree with you more. We're a herd animal, 72 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 1: We're a pack animal. And to not whiten anything, but 73 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:36,599 Speaker 1: I've been speaking with mates who work in policy in 74 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 1: the Middle East, and one of the things I keep 75 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 1: coming back to is like, the true way to achieve 76 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 1: anything with someone. 77 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 2: That you disagree with is to build something together. 78 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 1: So what great way to bond with another person is 79 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: to create something together? 80 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 2: And there's a great joy in that. 81 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:58,280 Speaker 1: I firmly believe that as humans were hardwired to pursue 82 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 1: that group problem solving in service of the good of 83 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 1: both of you, because that's what keeps us. 84 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 3: Alive totally, and to me, group problem solving is just 85 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:15,920 Speaker 3: so miraculous. It's the true magic of being human. What 86 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 3: do you call it when you turn, you know, lead 87 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 3: into gold alchemy? I just think It's incredible how through 88 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 3: conversation and sitting around in a room I can go 89 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:31,919 Speaker 3: in with an intractable opinion or something I imagine is 90 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 3: intractable into a workshopping session or a discussion, and it 91 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 3: never ceases to amaze me how words and collaborating with 92 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 3: another person and listening to them can convince me of 93 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 3: completely the opposite thing that I came in with, And 94 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 3: I think that that is miraculous, and how through conversation 95 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 3: you can actually turn something totally ephemeral, whether it's a 96 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:06,720 Speaker 3: script or a story, or an idea of an actor 97 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 3: or the storytelling vision of a director or whatever, which 98 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:14,839 Speaker 3: is just words and air, and it can actually become 99 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 3: something real, which to me I just find just so 100 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 3: profoundly magical. I can't even speak. And the fact that 101 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 3: you know people through talking can change your mind, you 102 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:36,720 Speaker 3: know that. To me, I always think, Wow, that's incredible, 103 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 3: And yeah, I can totally see how making something together 104 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 3: or having a discussion or just looking at up and like, 105 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 3: I got really excited about the scenes in the movie 106 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 3: Oppenheimer where they're all sitting in the room bringing all 107 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 3: the knowledge together and talking about how to make the 108 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 3: atom bomb and to me, whether that's a good thing 109 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:04,919 Speaker 3: or a bad thing, I'm not kind of discussing that. 110 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:08,720 Speaker 3: But what was interesting was it was about a collective 111 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 3: working together. You kind of have this vision that you know, 112 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 3: it's one person who kind of isn't lying in bed, 113 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 3: kind of in a giant light globe goes off. Well, yes, 114 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 3: that is true to some extent, But how much further 115 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 3: ideas go when you have a collective that are actually 116 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 3: discussing it and trying to make that idea grow. 117 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 4: A large part of any kind of creativity is really 118 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 4: it's our brain reaching into a subconscious and here's a connection. 119 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 4: But it's something we you know, you can stoke and 120 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 4: you can work out. I wonder like the feeding of 121 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 4: the subconscious, being mindful of what's going in your eyeballs. 122 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 4: Or I'm going off to work on this particular project. 123 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: I need to go and you know, feed my brain 124 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 1: with a bit of stuff and then go do something 125 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 1: else for a while and then the ideas will come. 126 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 2: Or is it like all in. 127 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 1: One one hit for you when you're when you're starting 128 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 1: to create anything. 129 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 3: Look, I think it's a mysterious process. I mean, in 130 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 3: terms of the work that I do it's very research based, 131 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 3: so there's a lot of input either through reading or 132 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 3: looking at pictures. And a lot of the time I'm 133 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 3: not somebody who goes the questions posed and I immediately 134 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 3: know the answer, you know. Usually I'm confused or have 135 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 3: no idea, you know, And it's really humbling because I 136 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 3: think also as a creative person, you tend to have 137 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 3: the wildly You go through moments of wild egotism when 138 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 3: you think, oh, I'm flying and I've got so many 139 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 3: great ideas, and then the next minute you're like, I 140 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:02,199 Speaker 3: have absolutely no idea what I'm doing, and I have 141 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 3: no idea how to get to where I need to go. 142 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 3: So you wildly swing from those two things, and it's 143 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:13,720 Speaker 3: probably the tension between the two that keeps you honest. 144 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 3: And as I get older, I've just learned that you 145 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 3: have to quiet those voices and kind of do the 146 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:27,560 Speaker 3: boring things, which is read the book, write a list, 147 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:34,560 Speaker 3: look at the pictures. That there is no magical moment, 148 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 3: it's just work and you just have to go through 149 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:44,079 Speaker 3: the process. And sometimes the process is enormously satisfying, and 150 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 3: sometimes it's less satisfying, but ultimately, if you're consistent however 151 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:55,680 Speaker 3: dull that sounds. If you're consistent, eventually you will have 152 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 3: some revelations. You will wake up at three o'clock in 153 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 3: the morning and go, oh, now I know what I 154 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:08,440 Speaker 3: should do. You know, because you've primed yourself a number 155 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 3: of years ago. You know, I learned transcendental meditation, which 156 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 3: I try and do. I'm in a very bad period 157 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 3: at the moment of not meditating as I should. But 158 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 3: one of the things that always struck me is I 159 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 3: think that the Mahariji said, you know, when meditating, people say, oh, 160 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 3: that was a good meditation, or that was a bad 161 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 3: meditation or whatever. But then when they put all the 162 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 3: electrodes on your brain, people report that they're having, you know, 163 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 3: a transcendental moment, and other people report that their toe 164 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 3: was just itching, but actually their brain waves change in 165 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 3: exactly the same way. And I think the Maharishi said, 166 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:48,559 Speaker 3: you know, if you can jump in the ocean, or 167 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 3: you can step in a puddle and you still get wet. Right, 168 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:55,200 Speaker 3: So I think it's sort of similar with creativity, is 169 00:10:55,240 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 3: that a lot of it, right, is quite practice based. 170 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 3: You know, it's quite skills based. It's going through the 171 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 3: process and having faith that the process will deliver you 172 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:14,440 Speaker 3: to a place you hadn't imagined before. But that's hard 173 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:17,720 Speaker 3: sometimes because you'd like it to be just easier or 174 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 3: less boring, or you know. 175 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 1: Catherine Martin holds the record for the most amount of 176 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 1: oscars one way any Australian. But listen to the absolutely grounded, 177 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:30,560 Speaker 1: absolutely down towards and everything she said. 178 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 2: It's a cracking conversation. Get on it if you need to. 179 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:36,719 Speaker 1: I could say the same thing about our next guest here, 180 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 1: Harry Garside. He spoke with a calm wisdom that was 181 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:43,320 Speaker 1: far beyond his years, and there really is no better 182 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 1: example of the way that he characterized the different facets 183 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: of masculinity. 184 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 5: Yeah, immature and mature masculinity. 185 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 2: Oh talk to me about that. 186 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:57,200 Speaker 5: Yeah, so I would say, like immature masculinity was that 187 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 5: one to prove? Was that beat my chest? Look how 188 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:02,080 Speaker 5: strong I am? Look at my arm I look at 189 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:04,199 Speaker 5: look at me the warrior, right, the one who runs 190 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 5: in and I'm so tough. Yeah, I would say that's 191 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 5: immature masculinity. I think secure masculinity is I know, the 192 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 5: one working behind the scenes, you mean, providing for the family. Yeah, 193 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:17,320 Speaker 5: the one who's stable. Secure the one that everyone turns 194 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,560 Speaker 5: to when I mean there's a storm and everything's been 195 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 5: knocked down. Yeah. Yeah, that's mature masculinity. 196 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 2: Mature masculinity and immature masculinity. That's uh. 197 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 1: I like that better than I was previously referring and 198 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 1: talking about it as healthy and unhealthy, very. 199 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 5: Much the same. 200 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:39,439 Speaker 1: Yeah, but I like the idea, the idea of it's 201 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 1: a little more aspirational to put immature and mature. 202 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:43,960 Speaker 2: I really like that. 203 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:46,079 Speaker 5: I did steal it. I would just love to say 204 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:49,080 Speaker 5: that it's my but it's not. I got a podcast. 205 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:49,680 Speaker 5: I can't remember what. 206 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 2: It doesn't matter. This is how ideas are. 207 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 1: This is what happens with ideas matter, Like ideas, Someone 208 00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:59,680 Speaker 1: invented a limerick and now there's a billion of them, 209 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 1: like someone a thousand years ago dead going, that's my 210 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:03,680 Speaker 1: fucking line and. 211 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 2: That's my rhymings. 212 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:09,080 Speaker 1: Game doesn't matter, you know. Once the idea is it's 213 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:11,680 Speaker 1: a toothpaste out of the tube. It's out, man. But 214 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 1: I like the idea of immature masculinity and mature masculinity 215 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 1: because nobody wants to be a little boy making childish 216 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 1: decisions or treating people like that. 217 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 2: We obviously what it's like to be a toddler. 218 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: It's pretty hard, though, when those kind of choices get 219 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 1: made by twenty three rob blokes with neck hats and 220 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 1: you know they've got a friend with a bum bag 221 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:35,200 Speaker 1: down the gym and they are just massive. Next thing, 222 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:36,680 Speaker 1: you know, they make a decision in the blink of 223 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: an eye that changes everyone around them. 224 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 5: I must have been and I'm such a flawed human 225 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:44,679 Speaker 5: and I always have coexistent realities inside myself. I actually 226 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 5: I've got some personality, but I'm like, I've just got 227 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:51,440 Speaker 5: so many facets to myself and I I always know 228 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:53,840 Speaker 5: that inside of me there's like that judgment. There's like that, 229 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:56,440 Speaker 5: oh look at them, Like there's that critique, right, But 230 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 5: then there's also this this one to like I don't 231 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:01,320 Speaker 5: have compassion and empathy. And I try and sit there 232 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 5: as much as I can, and I don't always live 233 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:05,319 Speaker 5: up to them. But it's like I always think, I 234 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 5: see those people. I grew up in an area that 235 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 5: there's a lot of bikeis and stuff like that. I'm like, 236 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 5: they're grown men acting like little boys. I'm like, what 237 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 5: is what is going on right now? That's just like 238 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:15,839 Speaker 5: what what do they need? Like what do they need? 239 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:17,559 Speaker 5: Do they need? Is that what they're looking for? Connection? 240 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 5: And they're looking for certain things like what do they 241 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 5: actually need from society? I guess not to be like 242 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 5: that or are they happy? Like I don't know, Like 243 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 5: I don't know what's right. I don't know if it's 244 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 5: me being arrogant pushing my way of my world onto 245 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 5: them like they should live like other people. It's like, 246 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 5: am I right to say that? I don't know. 247 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 1: Walking down the street as a man in my you know, 248 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 1: late teens, early twenties, I've feared that Brisbane and so 249 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 1: you know, he saw violence on the street and I 250 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 1: see guys possibly they might have seen John Wick and 251 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 1: thinking this is how it's going to go, you know, 252 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 1: and they wade into something and then about two seconds flat, 253 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 1: someone who's forty cent it is shorter than them. 254 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 2: It's just you know, that's it. 255 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 1: You're You're in rehab for the next five months trying 256 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: to swallow again. 257 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's wild and wild how quickly that stuff can happen, right, Yeah, 258 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 5: it's a wild thing. And that just shows like that 259 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 5: primitive nature that animals, animalistic instincts. It's like if you 260 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 5: can't control it, it will control you. 261 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: You mentioned before if someone came in here and it 262 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 1: was a threat, you know, but what is it walking 263 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 1: through the world knowing that you've got this. I can 264 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: only imagine having that do everything you possibly can to 265 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 1: never ever ever use it. 266 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's one of those things. Like one of my 267 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 5: one of my good friends in Sydney, we went for 268 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 5: lunch and I was walking through everywhere in I think 269 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 5: it was Glebe and it was just like there was 270 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 5: some interesting characters walking around. And I'm always aware of 271 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 5: what's going on, and I think it's like it's making 272 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 5: it makes me hyper aware. I feel like I'm I 273 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 5: don't know what it is, but it's like the protective nature, right, 274 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 5: it's not my friend to be safe and and of 275 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:02,160 Speaker 5: course nothing's happened to us, and most of the time 276 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 5: nothing does. We live in a great society. But yeah, 277 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 5: it's a weird thing. And I yeah, definitely there was 278 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 5: times in my childhood or teenage years where I feel 279 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 5: like I was still very insecure and I had to 280 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 5: beat my chest. And yeah, I'm just grateful now that 281 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 5: I guess most of the time I don't need to. 282 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 5: I don't feel like I need to. I know that 283 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 5: it push on the shove, watch what I do. 284 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 1: I've seen guys who I swear with security, guys who 285 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 1: like x sas kind of I think I kill you 286 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 1: with the fingernail if they wanted. 287 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 2: And they just have something in their voice. 288 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 1: You know, they walk up to whoever is being a 289 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 1: diet and they just do, we have a problem. I 290 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 1: don't think you want us to have a problem. Think 291 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: about what you're doing. And I just watched these guys 292 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 1: turn to water because they have the thing in their 293 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 1: voice that says, I've done shit in Northern Africa that 294 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 1: I can't sleep at night because of. 295 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 2: And they hear it. 296 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 1: They hear it enough enough, he is it in their voice, 297 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 1: and these guys just fall at the knees. Sometimes mentioned 298 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 1: I trained a little bit. It was an interesting guy. 299 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 1: It was early, so early, kind of UFC days. One 300 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:06,920 Speaker 1: of the guys he lived in Los Angeles. His job 301 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 1: was to teach the jiu jitsu guys how to punch 302 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 1: all right, and I want to go train with him. 303 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:14,879 Speaker 1: I was in him for a couple of months. I 304 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 1: was still drinking at the time. It was useless, but 305 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:21,360 Speaker 1: far around man, the conditioning stuff was just nuts. Man 306 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:25,320 Speaker 1: and I remember this kid that I eventually got to 307 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:26,720 Speaker 1: the point where I was putting on the head gear 308 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 1: and sparring this like a fourteen year old. Right. This 309 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 1: guy didn't even like, didn't even break a sweat, and 310 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 1: he was he moved so fast I couldn't see him, 311 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:40,680 Speaker 1: and I was like, holy fuck me. He occasionally tapped 312 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:42,640 Speaker 1: me on the head gear and just get the shit 313 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 1: out of me. Right as you're going into like a 314 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 1: big fight, I can't you would know, You would know 315 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 1: more about what it is to face pretty certain pain 316 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:56,639 Speaker 1: than anybody. What do you want people to know about 317 00:17:56,840 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 1: literally stepping into the ring and testing yourself, Like. 318 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 5: Yeah, I feel like I'm moving my body the way 319 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 5: I'm supposed to as an animal. Yeah, I think it's 320 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 5: the most pure place I can go. I wrote a 321 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:11,120 Speaker 5: poem if I remember lines, if it was like it's 322 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:14,360 Speaker 5: act as the world begins to feel ever so quiet, 323 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 5: as my mind begins screaming war cries. Never do I 324 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 5: feel so alive, Never do I feel so in my body. 325 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:25,680 Speaker 5: Man versus man, ego versus ego. Grateful to be reminded 326 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 5: all that we are is barbaric animals trying to act civilized. 327 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 5: I think it's so true. I don't know, and boxing 328 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:36,679 Speaker 5: is a week in combat sport in general, Like I 329 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 5: think most combat athletes would probably agree, Like, there's times 330 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 5: that it hurts, but it's like that primal nature comes 331 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 5: out and it's like you're adrenaline's pumping. You probably get 332 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:45,679 Speaker 5: hurt more on a quirky from AFL than what you 333 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,200 Speaker 5: would in in boxing at times. Most of the time, 334 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:50,479 Speaker 5: nine times out of ten, you will get hurt more 335 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:52,879 Speaker 5: from a football game than you were boxing. But of 336 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 5: course it's a beautiful sport because it is that pure 337 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 5: nature of combat, which I think we've all done to 338 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 5: survive or our ancestors did to survive so many people. 339 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 2: And I've certainly done this myself. It happened to me 340 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 2: the other day at the gym. Turn away from truly 341 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:10,160 Speaker 2: testing ourselves. 342 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:14,160 Speaker 1: I really want to do this, but if it doesn't work, 343 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:17,480 Speaker 1: then I'll know that I've I'm not good enough to 344 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 1: get that job, or I'm not good enough to date 345 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:23,959 Speaker 1: that person, or I'm not a great parent. Because ultimately, 346 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:28,439 Speaker 1: when you step through those robes, you are it's you 347 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 1: against you. You're testing yourself and the other person's trained 348 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 1: as hard as you. They want it just as much 349 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 1: as you. What do you get out of doing that? 350 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:40,400 Speaker 1: What do you get out of testing yourself willingly walking 351 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:41,920 Speaker 1: towards that test. 352 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 5: I think I've turned myself into the man that my 353 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:47,639 Speaker 5: young bought my young younger self didn't think he was. 354 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:50,639 Speaker 5: I mean, I'm quite proud of that. Like I know, 355 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 5: I've been doing this weird challenge that I do one 356 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,640 Speaker 5: challenge of months for the last five and a half years. 357 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:58,680 Speaker 5: I'm actually kind of been doing my sixty eighth month 358 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:02,200 Speaker 5: in a row. It's called the Uncomfortable Challenges. And I've 359 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:07,159 Speaker 5: done things like fifty hours no talking, improv class, warm makeup, 360 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:11,159 Speaker 5: full face and makeup for a day. I begged for 361 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:15,639 Speaker 5: money for a couple of hours. I've washed windows at lights. Like, 362 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 5: I've done a number of things right. Some are fun, 363 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:20,879 Speaker 5: some are hard, some are physical, some are emotional. But 364 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:23,159 Speaker 5: each challenge I've learned something from. And I think the 365 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:25,879 Speaker 5: world we live in right now, the Western world, it's 366 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 5: almost like our ancestors did too well. That it's like 367 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:30,959 Speaker 5: we've got it real good in Australia, most people. I've 368 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 5: got it real good in Australia. And it's like in 369 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 5: that our body is naturally hardwired to protect itself as 370 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 5: much as it can. So if we can conserve energy 371 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 5: and be in a comfortable place, we can conserve energy 372 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 5: for the time that we're going to be in stress, right, 373 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,639 Speaker 5: because that's how we're hardwired. And it's like, right now, 374 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:51,439 Speaker 5: it's like the comfort is the Netflix, the couch, the clothes, 375 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 5: the heat up, the warm showers, like these are all 376 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:57,640 Speaker 5: things we didn't have one hundred years ago. Right, It's 377 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 5: wild to think that not that long ago we didn't 378 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:02,919 Speaker 5: have that. And it's just like, I think there is 379 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 5: so much in our society pulling us in a way 380 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:07,919 Speaker 5: of comfort that it keeps us stuck, it keeps us small. 381 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 5: And I think the more that you can consciously push yourself, 382 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 5: whether that be a hard training session, whether that be 383 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:15,920 Speaker 5: having a cold shower in the morning, whether that be 384 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 5: you know your poison, you pick your poison and make 385 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:21,399 Speaker 5: sure you do it and feel that elation when you 386 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 5: achieve it, and feel how you shed your skin and 387 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 5: you get a little bit bigger, and you continuously do 388 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 5: that day after day after day. You watch that transformation, 389 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 5: because there's. 390 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:36,680 Speaker 1: Our body has an an adaptation response to stress. But 391 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:39,359 Speaker 1: I got quite sick A large part of it was 392 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:42,040 Speaker 1: turning away from the thing that I was terrified of. 393 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 1: I want to scroll past those stories, and I know, no, man, 394 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:47,879 Speaker 1: you got to read it. You got to read it, 395 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:50,679 Speaker 1: so click on it. I read it, I feel all 396 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 1: the shit in my body, like, Okay, there it is. 397 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:56,760 Speaker 1: Take caverle risks and then it's not as scary as 398 00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 1: it was five minutes ago. 399 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 2: But if I scroll past. 400 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:04,680 Speaker 1: It's even scarier the next time, you know, and. 401 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,520 Speaker 5: It gets harder. That's why I generally have empathy for 402 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:09,960 Speaker 5: people that if they've lived a certain way for so long, 403 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 5: it's so hard to bite the bullet and change that thing. 404 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 5: Whatever you want to change yourself, yourself. That's why I 405 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,880 Speaker 5: think it's always like start small, start small, cold shower 406 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:20,399 Speaker 5: in the morning, just do it, and even just finish 407 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:22,199 Speaker 5: in a cold you have to start on it. But 408 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 5: just do something right. Just do something that's you could 409 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 5: have been like mow the lawns out the front like, 410 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 5: but just say you're going to do something that you 411 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 5: don't want to do and do it and then feel 412 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 5: that actually sitting in it for five seconds ago. I 413 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 5: did that, Like I did that for myself. I chose 414 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,159 Speaker 5: to do that like, oh, what a feeling? What a feeling? 415 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:41,919 Speaker 1: I love the way that he makes me feel excited 416 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 1: about being uncomfortable. It's cool, Harry Gars, I's an excellent 417 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 1: human being. There's some amazing words to come from Deborah 418 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:51,399 Speaker 1: Francis White, but I do need to play some ads 419 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:51,880 Speaker 1: back in a tick. 420 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:56,359 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to the show. 421 00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,920 Speaker 1: One fine little bite for you from Deborah Francis White's 422 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:06,080 Speaker 1: incredible thinker, an amazing speaker. She's so eloquent, so passionate, 423 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:08,919 Speaker 1: and this moment in a chat. I really love this 424 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:11,880 Speaker 1: part because so often we hear the advice be authentic 425 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,119 Speaker 1: or embrace her authentic selves. 426 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 2: Well, Debra has a different idea about that. 427 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 6: We have become obsessed with authenticity in the corporates all 428 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:24,639 Speaker 6: the time, like athenticity, authenticity. 429 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:25,920 Speaker 7: Now listen, Obviously, I. 430 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:27,359 Speaker 6: Believe we should be here we are and say what 431 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 6: we mean and you know, of course, but I do 432 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,880 Speaker 6: find the concept of authenticity very limiting because if you're 433 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 6: authentically crap at. 434 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 7: Something, you well, that's you're stuck with it. 435 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 6: I think, to me, your authentic self this is the 436 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:43,359 Speaker 6: biggest thing. I think, the biggest thing I've ever learned. 437 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 6: This is the most important thing I've ever learned. Your 438 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 6: authentic self is just your habitual self. My authentic self 439 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:53,359 Speaker 6: likes to eat cake and lie down. When I was 440 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:54,920 Speaker 6: a kid, that's what I wanted to do. My sister 441 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:56,440 Speaker 6: wanted to run around the garden and play games with me, 442 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 6: and I'd be like, I'll be reading this book I 443 00:23:57,800 --> 00:23:58,680 Speaker 6: loved reading. 444 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 7: And she didn't really like sweet staff. 445 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 6: I would be like, you know, spend my pocket money 446 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 6: on sweets, and I just wanted to do that. My 447 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:09,719 Speaker 6: best self likes to eat fruit and a yoga, and 448 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,359 Speaker 6: I find if I just do the things that my 449 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 6: best self would do for three to six months, they 450 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:21,639 Speaker 6: become my habitual self. It's more authentic for me now 451 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:25,120 Speaker 6: to move than it is to be sedentary. When I'm 452 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 6: sedentary for too long, my body demands movement. 453 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:30,679 Speaker 7: Do you know why. I've created a practice of it. 454 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 6: So it's more authentic now for me to go to yoga, 455 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 6: jump on the peloton, have a dance class than it 456 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 6: is just to lie there. But that is because I 457 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 6: have changed my habits. All we are is a product of. 458 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 7: What we do every day. 459 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:48,880 Speaker 6: We really are, And so your authentic self is your habit. 460 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:50,440 Speaker 7: Yourself if you feel. 461 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 6: Inhibited, if you feel shy, if you feel like I 462 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 6: could never do a presentation or a good presentation, I'm always. 463 00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,440 Speaker 7: Going to hate that part of my job. Take any 464 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:01,119 Speaker 7: opportunity to. 465 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 6: Just if I ride a horse every day for a year, 466 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 6: I'm quite scared of horses. If I ride a horse 467 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 6: every day for a year, it'll just become what I do. 468 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:11,439 Speaker 6: So do karaoke sober every week for a year, It'll 469 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:13,399 Speaker 6: just become what you do. You'll never be scared of 470 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,280 Speaker 6: presenting again. And that's the biggest thing that I think 471 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:17,119 Speaker 6: I've ever learned. 472 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,800 Speaker 1: I think what you're describing is something that I too, 473 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:22,200 Speaker 1: have found incredibly powerful. 474 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 2: It's the idea to act as if. 475 00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:27,959 Speaker 1: And the way I would trick myself into it is 476 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 1: just getting up and telling myself, I'm the kind of 477 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 1: person that takes a run every day on my arms. 478 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:37,159 Speaker 2: I don't want to get up, so I hang on. 479 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,240 Speaker 1: I'm the kind of person that takes it run every 480 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 1: day and then not long three four weeks or so, 481 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:46,320 Speaker 1: I'm going over why I'm kind of person takes a 482 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 1: run every day. 483 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:50,399 Speaker 6: Ye, So much is your identity or identity if you 484 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:52,880 Speaker 6: keep telling yourself I'm bad at public speaking, or I'm shy, 485 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:56,719 Speaker 6: or I get stage fright. You've convinced your brain of that. 486 00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 6: Now that may be true. But the chance to get 487 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,680 Speaker 6: to work on yourself is the biggest chance you'll ever 488 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 6: have in life, I think, and it's the most. You 489 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,399 Speaker 6: can't really change the world unless you change yourself. You 490 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 6: have to look in woods. Not possible. But then I 491 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:17,200 Speaker 6: do feel it responsibility to try and have an impact 492 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:19,399 Speaker 6: on the world and you know, leave it better than 493 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 6: when I found it without being hebristic and going, oh, 494 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:22,480 Speaker 6: I'm changing the world. 495 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:27,120 Speaker 7: But you know, sometimes people feel I'm just a drop 496 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:28,119 Speaker 7: in the ocean. What can I do? 497 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:29,720 Speaker 6: Like with feminism, with trying to make the world a 498 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 6: better place for women. You know, I landed in Australia 499 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,720 Speaker 6: and they've turned on the news and it was women 500 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 6: out in the street protesting that a woman is killed 501 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:39,680 Speaker 6: by her intimate partner every four days in this country. 502 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 6: And that is for the pop size of the population. 503 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:45,160 Speaker 6: It's also true in the UK we have three times 504 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:46,200 Speaker 6: the size of the population. 505 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:48,159 Speaker 7: One woman is too many, but. 506 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,639 Speaker 6: One in every four days in either of those countries 507 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 6: is far too many. And in this country, with the 508 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,920 Speaker 6: population of twenty two million. That is a shocking number. 509 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,880 Speaker 6: So you know, we have to try and do something 510 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:03,400 Speaker 6: about that. 511 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 7: I can't be complacent about that. I can't just go oh, 512 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 7: well like it. 513 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 6: You know, I'm not in that position where that's likely 514 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:14,679 Speaker 6: to happen. So I'm just going to crack on with 515 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:18,440 Speaker 6: watching you know, married at first sight and having a cocktail. 516 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,159 Speaker 7: And you have to have a go at that. 517 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:21,919 Speaker 6: You have to have a go at changing that and 518 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 6: at least try and make some kind of contribution to 519 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 6: changing that. 520 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:27,480 Speaker 7: But unless you. 521 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,879 Speaker 6: Are prepared to work on yourself and the places where 522 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:36,919 Speaker 6: you are lying to yourself, disassociating saying I'm going to 523 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,879 Speaker 6: look after myself and not looking after myself, pretending my 524 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:41,639 Speaker 6: priorities and are not what they are. You know what 525 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:45,160 Speaker 6: your priorities are by based on what you do. Everyone 526 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 6: will tell you, oh, health top priority, family, top priority. 527 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:53,119 Speaker 6: But if every morning you get up and you know 528 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:56,880 Speaker 6: that your health span would be better if you did 529 00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:58,920 Speaker 6: do a downward facing dog or went for a walk 530 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,360 Speaker 6: or whatever it is, or you know, you. 531 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 2: You put that first dart of the day. 532 00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:06,879 Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, well it really hits part yeah exactly, you, 533 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:09,400 Speaker 7: then then it's not a priority. 534 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:10,119 Speaker 2: It's just not. 535 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 7: It's just not. 536 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:13,919 Speaker 6: So you know, whatever it is that you're telling yourself 537 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,119 Speaker 6: is most important. If you say families most important, but 538 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,919 Speaker 6: you but you never find time to visit you, you know, 539 00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 6: relatives who you know, you have a close connection with, 540 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:23,440 Speaker 6: or whatever. 541 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 7: Then it isn't. Then it isn't. 542 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 6: You know, there's I'll tell you there's executives working in 543 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 6: this city who would say, oh, my kids the most 544 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 6: important thing to me, But they haven't seen their kids 545 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 6: in six weeks because they have been flying around the 546 00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 6: world and they missed their kids concert or whatever, And 547 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:39,520 Speaker 6: then it isn't. 548 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:40,160 Speaker 7: Then it isn't. 549 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:42,920 Speaker 6: You know what's most important to you by what you 550 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 6: put first consistently that that doesn't mean that. Of course 551 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 6: there are times in our life when something else has 552 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 6: to come first because. 553 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 7: It's more urgent. 554 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 6: But overall we know what's most important by what we do, 555 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,959 Speaker 6: not what we say. If you break that cycle, like 556 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 6: when at the start of at Lockdown, which went on 557 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,959 Speaker 6: off for two years in London, we didn't know how 558 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 6: long it was going to go for I just went, 559 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,640 Speaker 6: I know myself and it's really easy for me to 560 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 6: become not physical and I thought we were allowed to 561 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:18,400 Speaker 6: go for one walk a day, didn't have a peloton 562 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 6: at that point, and I just thought, I can see 563 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 6: this going very badly, and I can see myself staying 564 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 6: up later and later working, sleeping in later and later 565 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 6: getting depressed and becoming really on physical and really miserable, 566 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 6: because I know I get depressed if I don't move. 567 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 6: And I thought all the sorts of you know, I'd 568 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 6: come out the other end of lockdown in a physical 569 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,240 Speaker 6: physically in a worse shape, you know, which, affecting my 570 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 6: health span, my life span, everything. So I booked in 571 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:48,720 Speaker 6: a nine thirty dance class fire zoom because I knew 572 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 6: if it was like join our dance class, I could 573 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:54,680 Speaker 6: lie in bed going I'll go tomorrow. There's twelve people there, 574 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 6: they don't need me. So it had to be me 575 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,880 Speaker 6: and my dance teacher. I need an embarrassing deadline, like 576 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 6: she's just waiting there on the other end of a 577 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 6: zoom and I'm going to just lie in bed and 578 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 6: just let her wait. And also I'm going to pay 579 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 6: for the class, which I can't afford to do unless 580 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 6: I take the class. And eventually I danced for two 581 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 6: hours a day, or I did. 582 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,560 Speaker 7: An hour dance and an our personal training every single day. 583 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 6: And I at the beginning the reason I did dance 584 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:20,240 Speaker 6: is I'd always wanted to learn to dance. I've done 585 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:21,960 Speaker 6: dance a bas as a kid, but I was really 586 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:23,640 Speaker 6: I was one of those people that at a hen 587 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 6: night or a sketch show or something where everyone had 588 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 6: to do a bit of simple choreography, I'd be like 589 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 6: checking the excepts going I'll go left when everyone else 590 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 6: goes right. I'm not going to be able to do this. 591 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,760 Speaker 6: I'm the kind of person who can't remember choreography. And 592 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 6: I thought that's a challenge I'll set for myself. So 593 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,760 Speaker 6: rather than personal training, which feels a bit like these things, 594 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 6: I wanted to learn how to dance. And by the 595 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:49,160 Speaker 6: end of the pandemic, I at the end of a pandemic. 596 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 7: I shouldn't say that this is pandemic is still going on. 597 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:52,040 Speaker 5: By the end of the. 598 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 6: Lockdowns, because we started to be allowed to come out, 599 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 6: like I could go to a studio around the corner 600 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 6: and work with the dance teacher one on one for 601 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 6: a while, and things like that. I could do, like, 602 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:04,080 Speaker 6: you know, I had proper West End choreography, and I 603 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:05,719 Speaker 6: could do it, and I could pick it up, you know, 604 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 6: relatively quickly, because I said to them, I don't just 605 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 6: want to dance to keep fit. I had two dance 606 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 6: teachers and I said, I don't want to get danced 607 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 6: to keep fit. 608 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:14,600 Speaker 7: I want to learn how to do it properly. 609 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 6: I want to learn how to look like a dancer, 610 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 6: how to feel like a dancer. And it was kind 611 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,480 Speaker 6: of amazing at the end how much I could do. 612 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:26,560 Speaker 6: And I now, because I've been on tour, you know, 613 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 6: I've stopped dancing, and for a while, I was like, 614 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:31,720 Speaker 6: I felt like a dancer. 615 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:32,800 Speaker 7: I felt like, you can say. 616 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 6: I'm not you know, obviously, if you necessarily've been dancing 617 00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:36,720 Speaker 6: since you're a child, you're never going to be a 618 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:41,640 Speaker 6: professional dancer. But you could say I'm not a professional dancer. 619 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 6: But you can't say I'm not a dancer because I 620 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 6: get out of bed and dance every day. And I 621 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:45,560 Speaker 6: really want to go back to it when I come 622 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:47,960 Speaker 6: back to London, because I'm like that made me feel 623 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 6: like a different kind of person. 624 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:54,600 Speaker 1: I've said it and heard it a few times in 625 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:58,480 Speaker 1: this podcast. Now that magic possibility to act as if 626 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,600 Speaker 1: really can be the door. 627 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:03,840 Speaker 2: To a whole new version and a whole new world 628 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:07,080 Speaker 2: for yourself and your family. It's well worth it. Thanks 629 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:07,600 Speaker 2: for listening. 630 00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:09,440 Speaker 1: I appreciate it. I hope you took something away from 631 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 1: the episode today. There's plenty more to be had if 632 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 1: you listen to the whole episodes of those people. Boy, 633 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 1: there's a lot in there. Katherine Martin, Hary Garside, Debra 634 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:18,720 Speaker 1: Francis White. Just have a look at the podcast feed, 635 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,480 Speaker 1: follow the podcast where you can like, subscribe, rate, share 636 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:24,040 Speaker 1: it with the mate, get on the substack for more. 637 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 2: I'll put a link in the show notes. 638 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 1: And if you tickets to the live show story Club 639 00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 1: coming back Fairbury and Mark Ship the Factory Theater in Sydney, 640 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,000 Speaker 1: So get on to that. There's live show tickets there. 641 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:36,720 Speaker 1: And if you need me, the email's been the same 642 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,320 Speaker 1: since twenty thirteen. Send it or your email at gmail 643 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:39,840 Speaker 1: dot com. 644 00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:40,560 Speaker 2: Talk to you next week.