WEBVTT - Australia’s own Dr Death

0:00:03.400 --> 0:00:06.400
<v Speaker 1>From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

0:00:06.519 --> 0:00:13.280
<v Speaker 1>It's Friday, November fourteen, twenty twenty five. A new political

0:00:13.360 --> 0:00:18.239
<v Speaker 1>battleground electricity prices. That's after the Liberals joined the Nationals

0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:21.720
<v Speaker 1>in dumping their support for the government's policy of reaching

0:00:21.840 --> 0:00:26.040
<v Speaker 1>net zero greenhouse gas emissions by twenty fifty. It took

0:00:26.079 --> 0:00:28.920
<v Speaker 1>a huge brawl within the Liberal Party to get here,

0:00:29.280 --> 0:00:33.120
<v Speaker 1>and Susan Lee's leadership is still in question, but the

0:00:33.159 --> 0:00:36.879
<v Speaker 1>opposition says they're still committed to protecting the climate and

0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:42.040
<v Speaker 1>getting power bills down. That's been a riproaring political barney

0:00:42.280 --> 0:00:44.880
<v Speaker 1>and you can read all about it at The Australian

0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:52.000
<v Speaker 1>dot com dot au. A blockbuster new podcast from The

0:00:52.040 --> 0:00:56.560
<v Speaker 1>Australian and our investigative star reporter Hedley Thomas. Sick to

0:00:56.600 --> 0:01:00.320
<v Speaker 1>Death is the horrifying true story of a sur jhn

0:01:00.320 --> 0:01:06.240
<v Speaker 1>who made catastrophic mistakes and went unchallenged by a broken system. Today,

0:01:06.440 --> 0:01:10.679
<v Speaker 1>Hedley joins me to examine the case of Giant Patel,

0:01:21.840 --> 0:01:27.520
<v Speaker 1>Australia's favorite podcaster. The Australian's own national chief correspondent, Hedley Thomas,

0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:30.320
<v Speaker 1>is back on the air today with Sick to Death

0:01:30.640 --> 0:01:33.920
<v Speaker 1>an exploration of one of the most remarkable stories of

0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:38.040
<v Speaker 1>the century, how a surgeon was implicated in the death

0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:41.840
<v Speaker 1>and serious injury of scores of patients and earned himself

0:01:41.920 --> 0:01:47.200
<v Speaker 1>the nickname Doctor Death. Today, the Australians bringing Hedley's book

0:01:47.280 --> 0:01:50.240
<v Speaker 1>by the same name to life with a gripping piece

0:01:50.360 --> 0:01:51.960
<v Speaker 1>of audio storytelling.

0:01:53.400 --> 0:01:56.919
<v Speaker 2>My name is Headley Thomas. In two thousand and five,

0:01:57.160 --> 0:02:01.440
<v Speaker 2>my reporting exposed shocking medicae negligence at the heart of

0:02:01.480 --> 0:02:06.040
<v Speaker 2>a major healthcare system. An overseas trained surgeon who was

0:02:06.120 --> 0:02:11.120
<v Speaker 2>nicknamed Doctor Death by the nurses, doctors and hospital administrators

0:02:11.160 --> 0:02:17.160
<v Speaker 2>left patients mutilated, incapacitated, even dead. Sick to Death is

0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:19.720
<v Speaker 2>based on my book of the same name, and it's

0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:23.800
<v Speaker 2>the true story of doctor Jan Patel's lies and manipulation

0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:32.120
<v Speaker 2>and the herculean effort it took to finally stop him.

0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:36.840
<v Speaker 1>Indian born American surgeon Jayant Patel was director of surgery

0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:39.800
<v Speaker 1>at the Bunderberg Base Hospital between two thousand and three

0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:43.400
<v Speaker 1>and two thousand and five. The reporting of Headley Thomas,

0:02:43.440 --> 0:02:47.560
<v Speaker 1>plus the courage of whistleblowing nurse Tony Hoffman and crusading

0:02:47.600 --> 0:02:52.639
<v Speaker 1>local MP rob Messenger brought Patel's misconduct to light. A

0:02:52.680 --> 0:02:55.760
<v Speaker 1>commission of inquiry in November two thousand and five found

0:02:55.919 --> 0:03:00.200
<v Speaker 1>thirteen patients died because of his negligence and many more

0:03:00.280 --> 0:03:01.679
<v Speaker 1>suffered complications.

0:03:03.000 --> 0:03:06.560
<v Speaker 3>United States marshals collected the doctor from a Portland prison

0:03:06.680 --> 0:03:07.799
<v Speaker 3>on Wednesday morning.

0:03:08.320 --> 0:03:11.359
<v Speaker 1>They took him to Los Angeles. Hotel was extradited from

0:03:11.440 --> 0:03:14.480
<v Speaker 1>the US to Australia to face trial, and was convicted

0:03:14.480 --> 0:03:17.840
<v Speaker 1>and jailed in Queensland in twenty ten on three counts

0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:21.560
<v Speaker 1>of manslaughter and one of grievous bodily harm that related

0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:25.920
<v Speaker 1>to surgeries on four patients. The convictions were quashed on

0:03:26.000 --> 0:03:29.639
<v Speaker 1>appeal in twenty twelve after the High Court ruled he'd

0:03:29.680 --> 0:03:33.880
<v Speaker 1>suffered a miscarriage of justice, triggering his release from prison.

0:03:34.600 --> 0:03:37.040
<v Speaker 3>The sixty two year old was released from jail last

0:03:37.120 --> 0:03:40.080
<v Speaker 3>Friday after the High Court found a gross miscarriage of

0:03:40.280 --> 0:03:43.320
<v Speaker 3>justice occurred during his trial in twenty ten.

0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:48.080
<v Speaker 4>In the trial, allegations were made not only about my

0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:52.280
<v Speaker 4>competence as a doctor, were also going to the root

0:03:52.320 --> 0:03:54.880
<v Speaker 4>of my character and my descency as a human being.

0:03:56.120 --> 0:03:59.600
<v Speaker 1>After two failed retrials, one of which resulted in a

0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:05.240
<v Speaker 1>man's lie, acquittal, Queensland prosecutors dropped all criminal medical negligence

0:04:05.320 --> 0:04:09.240
<v Speaker 1>charges against Patel in twenty thirteen, and he pleaded guilty

0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:13.920
<v Speaker 1>to four counts of fraud. He admitted lying to Queensland

0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:18.279
<v Speaker 1>authorities by hiding his American disciplinary history to get the

0:04:18.279 --> 0:04:22.520
<v Speaker 1>Bunderberg job, and was given a two year suspended prison sentence.

0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:25.280
<v Speaker 1>He flew out of Australia the following day.

0:04:26.600 --> 0:04:31.240
<v Speaker 4>Godam long and very difficult journey. I'm pleased that you

0:04:31.320 --> 0:04:33.440
<v Speaker 4>sawer and I'll be going back to my life and

0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:33.880
<v Speaker 4>my word.

0:04:35.680 --> 0:04:39.440
<v Speaker 1>In twenty fifteen, a Queensland tribunal ordered Patel never be

0:04:39.520 --> 0:04:49.880
<v Speaker 1>registered in a medical profession in Australia again. And now

0:04:49.960 --> 0:04:54.479
<v Speaker 1>we've found him in Portland, Oregon, where Patel now lives.

0:04:54.880 --> 0:04:56.440
<v Speaker 5>My name is Ellie Dudley.

0:04:56.960 --> 0:04:59.719
<v Speaker 1>Patel was out for a walk when he was approached

0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:03.599
<v Speaker 1>by our reporter Ellie Dudley and our videographer Quint Brewers.

0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:06.440
<v Speaker 5>I'd really love to sit down and interview you and

0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:09.360
<v Speaker 5>chat about the events in Bunderberg in the early two thousand.

0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:13.279
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, completely forgot about it and I'm beyond that.

0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:16.120
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I would really love to sit down with you

0:05:16.200 --> 0:05:18.719
<v Speaker 5>as he has done this history and hear about your

0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:22.280
<v Speaker 5>what you've got to say about what happened? You've got

0:05:22.279 --> 0:05:22.960
<v Speaker 5>nothing to say?

0:05:23.320 --> 0:05:27.600
<v Speaker 4>No, No, I don't react to stupid criticism. So who

0:05:27.920 --> 0:05:29.520
<v Speaker 4>I'm my life? I'm fine.

0:05:29.640 --> 0:05:30.320
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:05:30.400 --> 0:05:37.520
<v Speaker 5>Do you think you were treated poorly or worry about it?

0:05:40.760 --> 0:05:43.800
<v Speaker 1>Helly, what was your response to hearing that from giant

0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:45.360
<v Speaker 1>pattel Well?

0:05:45.440 --> 0:05:47.840
<v Speaker 2>I think he was trying to put a brave face

0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:51.560
<v Speaker 2>on what must have been one of the most incredibly

0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:57.040
<v Speaker 2>painful chapters in his life. A man with an oversized ego,

0:05:57.600 --> 0:06:03.159
<v Speaker 2>very bombastic and confident, and manipulative and dishonest surgeon who

0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:07.400
<v Speaker 2>came to Australia having lied about his background in the

0:06:07.480 --> 0:06:13.560
<v Speaker 2>United States, having lied about the negligence and the investigations

0:06:13.760 --> 0:06:16.840
<v Speaker 2>that led to him being very severely disciplined and barred

0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:20.760
<v Speaker 2>from practicing the surgery that he then decided that he

0:06:20.800 --> 0:06:25.040
<v Speaker 2>would practice in Australia in a public hospital. When he

0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:28.240
<v Speaker 2>was welcomed with open arms, and when he said that,

0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:32.440
<v Speaker 2>when he said he'd forgotten, well, do we ever forget

0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:37.159
<v Speaker 2>something like that? Imagine his life was upended, the lives

0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:40.760
<v Speaker 2>of many other people had been ended by his surgery,

0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:44.839
<v Speaker 2>and he went to jail. He served time behind Bars,

0:06:44.920 --> 0:06:47.719
<v Speaker 2>so I don't think he was being truthful when he

0:06:47.760 --> 0:06:49.120
<v Speaker 2>said he'd forgotten about it.

0:06:55.520 --> 0:06:58.799
<v Speaker 1>This story was absolutely enormous. It went around the world

0:06:58.960 --> 0:07:02.320
<v Speaker 1>and of course devated Australians and I think it shook

0:07:02.360 --> 0:07:04.279
<v Speaker 1>some of our faith in the health system that we

0:07:04.360 --> 0:07:08.760
<v Speaker 1>do like to trust. But your work at the Brisbane

0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:11.560
<v Speaker 1>Career Mail at the time started, like a lot of

0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:14.600
<v Speaker 1>stories do, with something very simple at Google search. Tell

0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:16.480
<v Speaker 1>me about the genesis of the story and what did

0:07:16.480 --> 0:07:16.920
<v Speaker 1>you google?

0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:19.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, back then, Claire was April two thousand and

0:07:19.680 --> 0:07:24.600
<v Speaker 2>five and smartphones were something you know, I don't think

0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:27.880
<v Speaker 2>we actually knew off if we used mobile phone, sure,

0:07:28.000 --> 0:07:33.000
<v Speaker 2>but they didn't have the capacity for Internet and downloads

0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:36.720
<v Speaker 2>or big data files. So I had been in Bunderberg,

0:07:36.840 --> 0:07:40.680
<v Speaker 2>this regional city short flight from Brisbane. I'd gone up

0:07:40.720 --> 0:07:45.120
<v Speaker 2>there to investigate the concerns of a nurse who had

0:07:45.120 --> 0:07:48.800
<v Speaker 2>been in touch with me, Tony Hoffman. This nurse had

0:07:48.840 --> 0:07:52.360
<v Speaker 2>told me about a surgeon that she said was dangerous,

0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:53.560
<v Speaker 2>was killing patients.

0:07:55.000 --> 0:07:59.080
<v Speaker 1>Headley met other nurses, including Karen Jenner, who told him,

0:07:59.240 --> 0:08:02.840
<v Speaker 1>of course the to Bettel didn't become a bad surgeon overnight.

0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:07.760
<v Speaker 2>I asked her, what do you mean by that? And

0:08:07.800 --> 0:08:10.200
<v Speaker 2>she said, well, you know, he's in his fifties, he's

0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:13.920
<v Speaker 2>been practicing surgery for a long time. He didn't become

0:08:14.000 --> 0:08:18.440
<v Speaker 2>this bad overnight. And I said, in front of Tony

0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:21.160
<v Speaker 2>and Karen and the other nurses who had taken a

0:08:21.160 --> 0:08:23.440
<v Speaker 2>big risk after their shifts to come and talk to me,

0:08:24.240 --> 0:08:28.240
<v Speaker 2>I said, so, do you mean that where he's practiced previously,

0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:32.560
<v Speaker 2>there's probably going to be similar issues. There'll be a

0:08:32.640 --> 0:08:37.840
<v Speaker 2>trail of problems and badly damaged patients where he's previously worked.

0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:41.000
<v Speaker 2>And they all said, yeah, absolutely, that's right, that's what

0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:44.959
<v Speaker 2>they'll be. And I couldn't sleep that night in this

0:08:45.840 --> 0:08:50.360
<v Speaker 2>little budget motel in Bunderberg because I kept thinking about

0:08:50.840 --> 0:08:55.080
<v Speaker 2>that comment and what it possibly meant. And the next

0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:58.439
<v Speaker 2>day I flew back to Brisbane, and as I said,

0:08:58.440 --> 0:09:00.960
<v Speaker 2>we didn't have smartphones, I had to go back to

0:09:01.040 --> 0:09:03.800
<v Speaker 2>my desk in the newspaper building. I wanted to go

0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:07.880
<v Speaker 2>straight home, it had been a difficult assignment, but instead

0:09:07.920 --> 0:09:11.880
<v Speaker 2>I went to my desk to perform that online check.

0:09:12.120 --> 0:09:15.959
<v Speaker 2>It was a Google search. I literally googled dr J.

0:09:16.200 --> 0:09:21.200
<v Speaker 2>Patel and disciplinary history or words to that effect, and

0:09:21.679 --> 0:09:27.000
<v Speaker 2>a PDF with the details of Dr Pateel's disciplinary record

0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:31.080
<v Speaker 2>and the findings against him in Portland, in the United

0:09:31.160 --> 0:09:37.640
<v Speaker 2>States and in New York State suddenly appeared and I realized,

0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:41.960
<v Speaker 2>holy crap. And that day, well, that night, we scrambled

0:09:42.000 --> 0:09:45.160
<v Speaker 2>to remake the front page and write a feature article

0:09:45.200 --> 0:09:48.559
<v Speaker 2>about it with the headline why didn't they check?

0:09:55.480 --> 0:09:57.920
<v Speaker 1>You went on to win the Gold Walkley twice, Australia's

0:09:58.000 --> 0:10:00.800
<v Speaker 1>highest honor for journalism. You're one of the world's most

0:10:00.840 --> 0:10:06.600
<v Speaker 1>respected investigative journos. Did that experience of googling something that

0:10:06.679 --> 0:10:09.240
<v Speaker 1>I think as a journalist you might have thought, of

0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:10.920
<v Speaker 1>course they would have checked that. Of course people would

0:10:10.920 --> 0:10:15.000
<v Speaker 1>have checked. That teach you something about asking those basic

0:10:15.080 --> 0:10:17.559
<v Speaker 1>questions that you might assume have already been answered.

0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:18.000
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

0:10:18.040 --> 0:10:21.760
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely. I mean if I as a journalist two years

0:10:21.840 --> 0:10:26.800
<v Speaker 2>after Petel's employment at Bunderberg Hospital, two years in which

0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:31.079
<v Speaker 2>he's been the subject of internal complaints, there were even

0:10:31.320 --> 0:10:34.720
<v Speaker 2>issues raised in the state parliament, and I'm the first

0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:39.440
<v Speaker 2>person to discover that he's got this terrible record in

0:10:39.480 --> 0:10:41.560
<v Speaker 2>the United States, which meant that he shouldn't have been

0:10:41.559 --> 0:10:46.120
<v Speaker 2>employed to prepare a cut finger let alone, to sophagectamies

0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:51.960
<v Speaker 2>and other very serious operations. It just underlines why journalism

0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:54.880
<v Speaker 2>can make such a powerful difference. We need to come

0:10:54.920 --> 0:10:58.520
<v Speaker 2>along and keep doing those and asking questions.

0:11:00.360 --> 0:11:03.720
<v Speaker 1>Coming up. The whistleblower who worried Headley would think she

0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:28.800
<v Speaker 1>was crazy.

0:11:18.559 --> 0:11:21.320
<v Speaker 3>She became known as the Whistleblower. But for the people

0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:25.200
<v Speaker 3>of Bundenberg and Queensland, Tony Hoffman risked everything to save

0:11:25.280 --> 0:11:28.679
<v Speaker 3>their lives. A nurse in the local hospital, Tony stood

0:11:28.720 --> 0:11:32.480
<v Speaker 3>alone against doctor Botel, a senior surgeon who she believed

0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:35.960
<v Speaker 3>responsible for the deaths of patients. She fought hard to

0:11:35.960 --> 0:11:36.360
<v Speaker 3>be heard.

0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:40.719
<v Speaker 1>Something that's a characteristic of your journalism is forming relationships

0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:44.640
<v Speaker 1>of deep trust and friendships really with whistleblowers and sourcers.

0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:47.920
<v Speaker 1>In this case, it's Tony Hoffman, the nurse who you

0:11:47.960 --> 0:11:51.760
<v Speaker 1>spoke about, who's carried a very heavy burden from being

0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:55.240
<v Speaker 1>the person who blew the whistle on Jan Totel, You've

0:11:55.240 --> 0:11:57.680
<v Speaker 1>done a lovely interview with Tony as part of this

0:11:57.840 --> 0:12:00.640
<v Speaker 1>series where she talks about your first face pace meeting

0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:04.280
<v Speaker 1>where she was very emotional. You know, she was very worried,

0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:08.240
<v Speaker 1>she was very afraid, but she was trying to get

0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:10.240
<v Speaker 1>you to trust her and to believe it even though

0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:12.440
<v Speaker 1>she was very upset, she was telling the truth.

0:12:13.120 --> 0:12:16.199
<v Speaker 6>I mean, I was frightened. I was living on adrenaline.

0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:20.200
<v Speaker 6>I was talking really fast. I was so scared. I

0:12:20.240 --> 0:12:24.400
<v Speaker 6>was crying all the time. So I was emotionally distraught.

0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:29.240
<v Speaker 6>So I was presenting myself like that. So it's hard

0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:34.439
<v Speaker 6>for people to understand that you can still be credible

0:12:34.520 --> 0:12:37.000
<v Speaker 6>but be emotional.

0:12:39.240 --> 0:12:42.440
<v Speaker 1>That's a really interesting dynamic, isn't it The journal who

0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:45.040
<v Speaker 1>needs to be able to trust your sources. But often

0:12:45.040 --> 0:12:48.920
<v Speaker 1>people who blow the whistle are, because of the trauma

0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:52.439
<v Speaker 1>of doing that, very emotional. They seem that they might

0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:55.160
<v Speaker 1>not be credible. Did you know from the start that

0:12:55.200 --> 0:12:56.040
<v Speaker 1>you could trust Tony?

0:12:57.360 --> 0:12:59.960
<v Speaker 2>I had a gut feeling that I could trust her,

0:13:00.920 --> 0:13:03.960
<v Speaker 2>But we were wary of each other. And often that's

0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:07.120
<v Speaker 2>the start of a relationship with your source or whistle

0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:11.400
<v Speaker 2>blowing contact. You're really trying to work out what the

0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:16.200
<v Speaker 2>potential weaknesses are and whether the person looks like they've

0:13:16.200 --> 0:13:19.640
<v Speaker 2>lost their marbles because of the fact they've been trying

0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:23.200
<v Speaker 2>to blow the whistle about something of great importance and

0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:25.440
<v Speaker 2>public interest for a long time and no one's listening,

0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:29.640
<v Speaker 2>or whether they've lost their marbles and they're just making

0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:33.920
<v Speaker 2>stuff up. With Tony Hoffman, I believed her because I

0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:37.880
<v Speaker 2>had myself done quite a lot of reporting before meeting

0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:42.800
<v Speaker 2>Tony about Queensland Health, and I was aware of the

0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:51.160
<v Speaker 2>incredibly deceptive and downright dishonest conduct of senior people in

0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:55.800
<v Speaker 2>Queensland Health in covering up big problems. I'd also done

0:13:55.840 --> 0:14:01.520
<v Speaker 2>a lot of reporting on the challenges facing patients and

0:14:01.800 --> 0:14:07.199
<v Speaker 2>health administrators when it came to overseas trained doctors. Australia

0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:10.320
<v Speaker 2>had and still has a great shortage of doctors, so

0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:14.559
<v Speaker 2>we were importing doctors from overseas. We needed them, particularly

0:14:14.559 --> 0:14:18.239
<v Speaker 2>in areas of need, rural and regional areas, and Queensland

0:14:18.320 --> 0:14:21.880
<v Speaker 2>needed them more than anywhere at that time, but we

0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:26.480
<v Speaker 2>were not properly vetting the doctors. And I had done

0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:30.560
<v Speaker 2>a series of stories back in that period, shortly before

0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:35.320
<v Speaker 2>I broke the Betel story, and that series focused on

0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:40.640
<v Speaker 2>how overseas trained doctors without proper credentials, who hadn't been

0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:45.760
<v Speaker 2>checked out thoroughly and had been given jobs of responsibility,

0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:49.680
<v Speaker 2>had caused a lot of harm and it was being

0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:52.040
<v Speaker 2>swept under the rug. And I remember when I started

0:14:52.040 --> 0:14:56.120
<v Speaker 2>writing those stories and asking questions to develop those stories,

0:14:56.560 --> 0:15:00.280
<v Speaker 2>getting some raised eyebrows from people and having to sort

0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:05.120
<v Speaker 2>of answer their questions about whether this was some kind

0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:10.000
<v Speaker 2>of racist line and reporting where we were attacking the

0:15:10.400 --> 0:15:14.520
<v Speaker 2>overseas trained doctors, many of whom were from countries like

0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:19.920
<v Speaker 2>India and Pakistan and so on, because they weren't white,

0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:22.360
<v Speaker 2>and nothing could be further from the truth. It was

0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:27.360
<v Speaker 2>about upholding standards of care and ensuring that the Australian

0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:30.880
<v Speaker 2>public was protected. But what we discovered as a result

0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:35.120
<v Speaker 2>of the inquiries that were held after the Pateel scandal

0:15:35.240 --> 0:15:39.040
<v Speaker 2>really blew up was that in Queensland we were not

0:15:39.200 --> 0:15:43.680
<v Speaker 2>just getting doctors from overseas who were incompetent. We were

0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:48.160
<v Speaker 2>employing people who pretended to be doctors, one of whom

0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:53.520
<v Speaker 2>was a Russian fellow who had no experience in psychiatry

0:15:53.600 --> 0:15:57.000
<v Speaker 2>and had been employed as a psychiatric registrar and had

0:15:57.040 --> 0:15:59.800
<v Speaker 2>done a lot of damage to the patients by telling

0:15:59.800 --> 0:16:02.680
<v Speaker 2>them they didn't need their medication. And he got away

0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:05.200
<v Speaker 2>with this for a long time, and a number of

0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:08.080
<v Speaker 2>psychiatrists who assessed him said, oh, we thought it was

0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:10.600
<v Speaker 2>pretty good. It'd never been to medical school.

0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:19.760
<v Speaker 1>We've worked together at the Australian for years now, and

0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:22.720
<v Speaker 1>we've made quite a few of your big investigations. We

0:16:22.800 --> 0:16:24.440
<v Speaker 1>always seem to do it the hard way. I think

0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:27.320
<v Speaker 1>that's you, that's your fault. And in this one, we've

0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:31.000
<v Speaker 1>brought this story to life with nearly two hundred voice actors,

0:16:31.400 --> 0:16:34.640
<v Speaker 1>a beautiful production led by our audio lead Jasper Leek

0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:38.480
<v Speaker 1>and supported by producers Kristin Amyot, Stephanie Coombs and Leott Samaglu.

0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:41.880
<v Speaker 1>It sounds absolutely beautiful. You and I have talked a

0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:45.640
<v Speaker 1>lot over the years about why audio is a great

0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:49.120
<v Speaker 1>way to tell big stories like these, long stories like this.

0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:51.440
<v Speaker 1>What do you think it is about sick to death

0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:54.120
<v Speaker 1>that lends itself to a listen rather than a read.

0:16:55.320 --> 0:17:01.480
<v Speaker 2>It's a chilling story, and there's intimacy and partnership, you know,

0:17:01.600 --> 0:17:04.400
<v Speaker 2>for a journalist who back in two thousand and five

0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:09.120
<v Speaker 2>IRS thirty eight, I was probably well cynical by then,

0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:16.720
<v Speaker 2>but I wasn't prepared for what was uncovered in that saga.

0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:20.280
<v Speaker 2>We were able to lift the lid on that as

0:17:20.320 --> 0:17:26.679
<v Speaker 2>a result of this crisis surrounding a doctor Patel in

0:17:26.760 --> 0:17:31.440
<v Speaker 2>a regional hospital which just then widened into a massive

0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:39.000
<v Speaker 2>and I think very important investigation of the entire health system,

0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:44.040
<v Speaker 2>and it showed what can be made possible when you

0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:47.840
<v Speaker 2>start with something small and the damage and the ripples

0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:51.399
<v Speaker 2>go out. And these lessons are still around today, Claire.

0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:54.560
<v Speaker 2>Some things have changed for the better, some things haven't,

0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:58.680
<v Speaker 2>and we need to be constantly reminded of this. I

0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:05.000
<v Speaker 2>am in doubt that across Australia today there will be doctors,

0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:12.040
<v Speaker 2>surgeons and people pretending to be doctors who shouldn't be there,

0:18:12.080 --> 0:18:17.680
<v Speaker 2>who are incompetent or fraudulent, who are just impostors, and

0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:19.560
<v Speaker 2>we have to be always vigilant about that.

0:18:36.240 --> 0:18:39.960
<v Speaker 1>Ketley Thomas is the Australian's national Chief correspondent and his

0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:43.800
<v Speaker 1>investigation Sick to Death is available now at Sick todeathpodcast

0:18:43.840 --> 0:18:48.280
<v Speaker 1>dot com, in Apple podcasts and in the Australians Mobile app.