1 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:06,400 Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey. 2 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 1: It's Friday, November fourteen, twenty twenty five. A new political 3 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:18,239 Speaker 1: battleground electricity prices. That's after the Liberals joined the Nationals 4 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 1: in dumping their support for the government's policy of reaching 5 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: net zero greenhouse gas emissions by twenty fifty. It took 6 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 1: a huge brawl within the Liberal Party to get here, 7 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 1: and Susan Lee's leadership is still in question, but the 8 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:36,879 Speaker 1: opposition says they're still committed to protecting the climate and 9 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 1: getting power bills down. That's been a riproaring political barney 10 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 1: and you can read all about it at The Australian 11 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 1: dot com dot au. A blockbuster new podcast from The 12 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 1: Australian and our investigative star reporter Hedley Thomas. Sick to 13 00:00:56,600 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 1: Death is the horrifying true story of a sur jhn 14 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 1: who made catastrophic mistakes and went unchallenged by a broken system. Today, 15 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:10,679 Speaker 1: Hedley joins me to examine the case of Giant Patel, 16 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: Australia's favorite podcaster. The Australian's own national chief correspondent, Hedley Thomas, 17 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:30,320 Speaker 1: is back on the air today with Sick to Death 18 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 1: an exploration of one of the most remarkable stories of 19 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:38,040 Speaker 1: the century, how a surgeon was implicated in the death 20 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 1: and serious injury of scores of patients and earned himself 21 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 1: the nickname Doctor Death. Today, the Australians bringing Hedley's book 22 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: by the same name to life with a gripping piece 23 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 1: of audio storytelling. 24 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:56,919 Speaker 2: My name is Headley Thomas. In two thousand and five, 25 00:01:57,160 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 2: my reporting exposed shocking medicae negligence at the heart of 26 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 2: a major healthcare system. An overseas trained surgeon who was 27 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 2: nicknamed Doctor Death by the nurses, doctors and hospital administrators 28 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 2: left patients mutilated, incapacitated, even dead. Sick to Death is 29 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 2: based on my book of the same name, and it's 30 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 2: the true story of doctor Jan Patel's lies and manipulation 31 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 2: and the herculean effort it took to finally stop him. 32 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 1: Indian born American surgeon Jayant Patel was director of surgery 33 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:39,800 Speaker 1: at the Bunderberg Base Hospital between two thousand and three 34 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 1: and two thousand and five. The reporting of Headley Thomas, 35 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: plus the courage of whistleblowing nurse Tony Hoffman and crusading 36 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:52,639 Speaker 1: local MP rob Messenger brought Patel's misconduct to light. A 37 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 1: commission of inquiry in November two thousand and five found 38 00:02:55,919 --> 00:03:00,200 Speaker 1: thirteen patients died because of his negligence and many more 39 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:01,679 Speaker 1: suffered complications. 40 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 3: United States marshals collected the doctor from a Portland prison 41 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:07,799 Speaker 3: on Wednesday morning. 42 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:11,359 Speaker 1: They took him to Los Angeles. Hotel was extradited from 43 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 1: the US to Australia to face trial, and was convicted 44 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 1: and jailed in Queensland in twenty ten on three counts 45 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: of manslaughter and one of grievous bodily harm that related 46 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:25,920 Speaker 1: to surgeries on four patients. The convictions were quashed on 47 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:29,639 Speaker 1: appeal in twenty twelve after the High Court ruled he'd 48 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: suffered a miscarriage of justice, triggering his release from prison. 49 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 3: The sixty two year old was released from jail last 50 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 3: Friday after the High Court found a gross miscarriage of 51 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 3: justice occurred during his trial in twenty ten. 52 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 4: In the trial, allegations were made not only about my 53 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 4: competence as a doctor, were also going to the root 54 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 4: of my character and my descency as a human being. 55 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: After two failed retrials, one of which resulted in a 56 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: man's lie, acquittal, Queensland prosecutors dropped all criminal medical negligence 57 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: charges against Patel in twenty thirteen, and he pleaded guilty 58 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 1: to four counts of fraud. He admitted lying to Queensland 59 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:18,279 Speaker 1: authorities by hiding his American disciplinary history to get the 60 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 1: Bunderberg job, and was given a two year suspended prison sentence. 61 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:25,280 Speaker 1: He flew out of Australia the following day. 62 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 4: Godam long and very difficult journey. I'm pleased that you 63 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 4: sawer and I'll be going back to my life and 64 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 4: my word. 65 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 1: In twenty fifteen, a Queensland tribunal ordered Patel never be 66 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 1: registered in a medical profession in Australia again. And now 67 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:54,479 Speaker 1: we've found him in Portland, Oregon, where Patel now lives. 68 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 5: My name is Ellie Dudley. 69 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:59,719 Speaker 1: Patel was out for a walk when he was approached 70 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:03,599 Speaker 1: by our reporter Ellie Dudley and our videographer Quint Brewers. 71 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 5: I'd really love to sit down and interview you and 72 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 5: chat about the events in Bunderberg in the early two thousand. 73 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:13,279 Speaker 4: Yeah, completely forgot about it and I'm beyond that. 74 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 5: Yeah, I would really love to sit down with you 75 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:18,719 Speaker 5: as he has done this history and hear about your 76 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:22,280 Speaker 5: what you've got to say about what happened? You've got 77 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 5: nothing to say? 78 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:27,600 Speaker 4: No, No, I don't react to stupid criticism. So who 79 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 4: I'm my life? I'm fine. 80 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 3: Yeah. 81 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 5: Do you think you were treated poorly or worry about it? 82 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 1: Helly, what was your response to hearing that from giant 83 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 1: pattel Well? 84 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:47,840 Speaker 2: I think he was trying to put a brave face 85 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 2: on what must have been one of the most incredibly 86 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:57,040 Speaker 2: painful chapters in his life. A man with an oversized ego, 87 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:03,159 Speaker 2: very bombastic and confident, and manipulative and dishonest surgeon who 88 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 2: came to Australia having lied about his background in the 89 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 2: United States, having lied about the negligence and the investigations 90 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:16,840 Speaker 2: that led to him being very severely disciplined and barred 91 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 2: from practicing the surgery that he then decided that he 92 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:25,040 Speaker 2: would practice in Australia in a public hospital. When he 93 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 2: was welcomed with open arms, and when he said that, 94 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 2: when he said he'd forgotten, well, do we ever forget 95 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:37,159 Speaker 2: something like that? Imagine his life was upended, the lives 96 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 2: of many other people had been ended by his surgery, 97 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:44,839 Speaker 2: and he went to jail. He served time behind Bars, 98 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 2: so I don't think he was being truthful when he 99 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 2: said he'd forgotten about it. 100 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:58,799 Speaker 1: This story was absolutely enormous. It went around the world 101 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 1: and of course devated Australians and I think it shook 102 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:04,279 Speaker 1: some of our faith in the health system that we 103 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 1: do like to trust. But your work at the Brisbane 104 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 1: Career Mail at the time started, like a lot of 105 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 1: stories do, with something very simple at Google search. Tell 106 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 1: me about the genesis of the story and what did 107 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: you google? 108 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, back then, Claire was April two thousand and 109 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 2: five and smartphones were something you know, I don't think 110 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 2: we actually knew off if we used mobile phone, sure, 111 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 2: but they didn't have the capacity for Internet and downloads 112 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 2: or big data files. So I had been in Bunderberg, 113 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 2: this regional city short flight from Brisbane. I'd gone up 114 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 2: there to investigate the concerns of a nurse who had 115 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 2: been in touch with me, Tony Hoffman. This nurse had 116 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 2: told me about a surgeon that she said was dangerous, 117 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 2: was killing patients. 118 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 1: Headley met other nurses, including Karen Jenner, who told him, 119 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 1: of course the to Bettel didn't become a bad surgeon overnight. 120 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 2: I asked her, what do you mean by that? And 121 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 2: she said, well, you know, he's in his fifties, he's 122 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 2: been practicing surgery for a long time. He didn't become 123 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 2: this bad overnight. And I said, in front of Tony 124 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 2: and Karen and the other nurses who had taken a 125 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 2: big risk after their shifts to come and talk to me, 126 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 2: I said, so, do you mean that where he's practiced previously, 127 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 2: there's probably going to be similar issues. There'll be a 128 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 2: trail of problems and badly damaged patients where he's previously worked. 129 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 2: And they all said, yeah, absolutely, that's right, that's what 130 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:44,959 Speaker 2: they'll be. And I couldn't sleep that night in this 131 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 2: little budget motel in Bunderberg because I kept thinking about 132 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:55,080 Speaker 2: that comment and what it possibly meant. And the next 133 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:58,439 Speaker 2: day I flew back to Brisbane, and as I said, 134 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 2: we didn't have smartphones, I had to go back to 135 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 2: my desk in the newspaper building. I wanted to go 136 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 2: straight home, it had been a difficult assignment, but instead 137 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 2: I went to my desk to perform that online check. 138 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:15,959 Speaker 2: It was a Google search. I literally googled dr J. 139 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:21,200 Speaker 2: Patel and disciplinary history or words to that effect, and 140 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 2: a PDF with the details of Dr Pateel's disciplinary record 141 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:31,080 Speaker 2: and the findings against him in Portland, in the United 142 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 2: States and in New York State suddenly appeared and I realized, 143 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:41,960 Speaker 2: holy crap. And that day, well, that night, we scrambled 144 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 2: to remake the front page and write a feature article 145 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:48,559 Speaker 2: about it with the headline why didn't they check? 146 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 1: You went on to win the Gold Walkley twice, Australia's 147 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 1: highest honor for journalism. You're one of the world's most 148 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 1: respected investigative journos. Did that experience of googling something that 149 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: I think as a journalist you might have thought, of 150 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 1: course they would have checked that. Of course people would 151 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 1: have checked. That teach you something about asking those basic 152 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:17,559 Speaker 1: questions that you might assume have already been answered. 153 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 4: Yeah. 154 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 2: Absolutely. I mean if I as a journalist two years 155 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 2: after Petel's employment at Bunderberg Hospital, two years in which 156 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:31,079 Speaker 2: he's been the subject of internal complaints, there were even 157 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 2: issues raised in the state parliament, and I'm the first 158 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:39,440 Speaker 2: person to discover that he's got this terrible record in 159 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:41,560 Speaker 2: the United States, which meant that he shouldn't have been 160 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 2: employed to prepare a cut finger let alone, to sophagectamies 161 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 2: and other very serious operations. It just underlines why journalism 162 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 2: can make such a powerful difference. We need to come 163 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 2: along and keep doing those and asking questions. 164 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 1: Coming up. The whistleblower who worried Headley would think she 165 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 1: was crazy. 166 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 3: She became known as the Whistleblower. But for the people 167 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 3: of Bundenberg and Queensland, Tony Hoffman risked everything to save 168 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,679 Speaker 3: their lives. A nurse in the local hospital, Tony stood 169 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 3: alone against doctor Botel, a senior surgeon who she believed 170 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 3: responsible for the deaths of patients. She fought hard to 171 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 3: be heard. 172 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:40,719 Speaker 1: Something that's a characteristic of your journalism is forming relationships 173 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 1: of deep trust and friendships really with whistleblowers and sourcers. 174 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 1: In this case, it's Tony Hoffman, the nurse who you 175 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 1: spoke about, who's carried a very heavy burden from being 176 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 1: the person who blew the whistle on Jan Totel, You've 177 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:57,680 Speaker 1: done a lovely interview with Tony as part of this 178 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 1: series where she talks about your first face pace meeting 179 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 1: where she was very emotional. You know, she was very worried, 180 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 1: she was very afraid, but she was trying to get 181 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 1: you to trust her and to believe it even though 182 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:12,440 Speaker 1: she was very upset, she was telling the truth. 183 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:16,199 Speaker 6: I mean, I was frightened. I was living on adrenaline. 184 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:20,200 Speaker 6: I was talking really fast. I was so scared. I 185 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 6: was crying all the time. So I was emotionally distraught. 186 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 6: So I was presenting myself like that. So it's hard 187 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:34,439 Speaker 6: for people to understand that you can still be credible 188 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 6: but be emotional. 189 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:42,440 Speaker 1: That's a really interesting dynamic, isn't it The journal who 190 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 1: needs to be able to trust your sources. But often 191 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 1: people who blow the whistle are, because of the trauma 192 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:52,439 Speaker 1: of doing that, very emotional. They seem that they might 193 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 1: not be credible. Did you know from the start that 194 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 1: you could trust Tony? 195 00:12:57,360 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 2: I had a gut feeling that I could trust her, 196 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:03,960 Speaker 2: But we were wary of each other. And often that's 197 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 2: the start of a relationship with your source or whistle 198 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 2: blowing contact. You're really trying to work out what the 199 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:16,200 Speaker 2: potential weaknesses are and whether the person looks like they've 200 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 2: lost their marbles because of the fact they've been trying 201 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:23,200 Speaker 2: to blow the whistle about something of great importance and 202 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:25,440 Speaker 2: public interest for a long time and no one's listening, 203 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 2: or whether they've lost their marbles and they're just making 204 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 2: stuff up. With Tony Hoffman, I believed her because I 205 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 2: had myself done quite a lot of reporting before meeting 206 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 2: Tony about Queensland Health, and I was aware of the 207 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 2: incredibly deceptive and downright dishonest conduct of senior people in 208 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 2: Queensland Health in covering up big problems. I'd also done 209 00:13:55,840 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 2: a lot of reporting on the challenges facing patients and 210 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:07,199 Speaker 2: health administrators when it came to overseas trained doctors. Australia 211 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:10,320 Speaker 2: had and still has a great shortage of doctors, so 212 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:14,559 Speaker 2: we were importing doctors from overseas. We needed them, particularly 213 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:18,239 Speaker 2: in areas of need, rural and regional areas, and Queensland 214 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 2: needed them more than anywhere at that time, but we 215 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 2: were not properly vetting the doctors. And I had done 216 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 2: a series of stories back in that period, shortly before 217 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 2: I broke the Betel story, and that series focused on 218 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 2: how overseas trained doctors without proper credentials, who hadn't been 219 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 2: checked out thoroughly and had been given jobs of responsibility, 220 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 2: had caused a lot of harm and it was being 221 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 2: swept under the rug. And I remember when I started 222 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 2: writing those stories and asking questions to develop those stories, 223 00:14:56,560 --> 00:15:00,280 Speaker 2: getting some raised eyebrows from people and having to sort 224 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 2: of answer their questions about whether this was some kind 225 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 2: of racist line and reporting where we were attacking the 226 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 2: overseas trained doctors, many of whom were from countries like 227 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 2: India and Pakistan and so on, because they weren't white, 228 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 2: and nothing could be further from the truth. It was 229 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 2: about upholding standards of care and ensuring that the Australian 230 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 2: public was protected. But what we discovered as a result 231 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 2: of the inquiries that were held after the Pateel scandal 232 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 2: really blew up was that in Queensland we were not 233 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 2: just getting doctors from overseas who were incompetent. We were 234 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:48,160 Speaker 2: employing people who pretended to be doctors, one of whom 235 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 2: was a Russian fellow who had no experience in psychiatry 236 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 2: and had been employed as a psychiatric registrar and had 237 00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 2: done a lot of damage to the patients by telling 238 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 2: them they didn't need their medication. And he got away 239 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 2: with this for a long time, and a number of 240 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 2: psychiatrists who assessed him said, oh, we thought it was 241 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 2: pretty good. It'd never been to medical school. 242 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 1: We've worked together at the Australian for years now, and 243 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 1: we've made quite a few of your big investigations. We 244 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: always seem to do it the hard way. I think 245 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 1: that's you, that's your fault. And in this one, we've 246 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 1: brought this story to life with nearly two hundred voice actors, 247 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 1: a beautiful production led by our audio lead Jasper Leek 248 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: and supported by producers Kristin Amyot, Stephanie Coombs and Leott Samaglu. 249 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 1: It sounds absolutely beautiful. You and I have talked a 250 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 1: lot over the years about why audio is a great 251 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 1: way to tell big stories like these, long stories like this. 252 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 1: What do you think it is about sick to death 253 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 1: that lends itself to a listen rather than a read. 254 00:16:55,320 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 2: It's a chilling story, and there's intimacy and partnership, you know, 255 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,400 Speaker 2: for a journalist who back in two thousand and five 256 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:09,120 Speaker 2: IRS thirty eight, I was probably well cynical by then, 257 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:16,720 Speaker 2: but I wasn't prepared for what was uncovered in that saga. 258 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 2: We were able to lift the lid on that as 259 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:26,679 Speaker 2: a result of this crisis surrounding a doctor Patel in 260 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:31,440 Speaker 2: a regional hospital which just then widened into a massive 261 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 2: and I think very important investigation of the entire health system, 262 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 2: and it showed what can be made possible when you 263 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 2: start with something small and the damage and the ripples 264 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:51,399 Speaker 2: go out. And these lessons are still around today, Claire. 265 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 2: Some things have changed for the better, some things haven't, 266 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:58,680 Speaker 2: and we need to be constantly reminded of this. I 267 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 2: am in doubt that across Australia today there will be doctors, 268 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 2: surgeons and people pretending to be doctors who shouldn't be there, 269 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:17,680 Speaker 2: who are incompetent or fraudulent, who are just impostors, and 270 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 2: we have to be always vigilant about that. 271 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 1: Ketley Thomas is the Australian's national Chief correspondent and his 272 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 1: investigation Sick to Death is available now at Sick todeathpodcast 273 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:48,280 Speaker 1: dot com, in Apple podcasts and in the Australians Mobile app.