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Speaker 1: I've spoken with anti abortion campaigner Professor Joanna How a

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Speaker 1: number of times over the last few weeks in regards

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Speaker 1: to the n late term abortion bill that was before

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Speaker 1: state Parliament. As part of that, she has labeled supporters

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Speaker 1: of that legislation baby killers and has a campaign on

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Speaker 1: social media using that term. She's been asked by those

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Speaker 1: offended by the term to take it down and is refusing,

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Speaker 1: promising to in fact scale up. Now. Joanna is a

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Speaker 1: professor of law, so from a legal point of view,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure she's across the legalities of it all, but

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Speaker 1: she is on the line doctor Joanna How, good morning.

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Speaker 1: So you're planning to ramp this up.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think the first point to make is just

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Speaker 2: that it's an accurate post. So my daughter reads the

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Speaker 2: Babysitters Clubs book, so we have a lot of them

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Speaker 2: at home, and I was looking at those books and

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Speaker 2: the covers and just thinking about a play on words.

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Speaker 2: Because I'm social, being able to explain your message extinctly

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Speaker 2: is very important, and I came up with the idea

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Speaker 2: with my team of the Baby Killers Club because it

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Speaker 2: exposes the fact that anybody who was a vocal opponent

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Speaker 2: to the live birth Spill, which is a very reasonable

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Speaker 2: bill that prevented a baby in the third trimester from

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Speaker 2: being injected with the testine chloride into their heart and

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Speaker 2: being delivered still born. The labeled baby killer is actually

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Speaker 2: quite accurate for someone that is against that very sensible bill.

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Speaker 2: So you know, from that perspective, the reason for the

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Speaker 2: post is to really expose the people that support lethally

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Speaker 2: injecting children with tatine chloride in the third trimester.

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Speaker 1: Okay, is it insensitive? Do you think? I mean people

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Speaker 1: that are offended by it, or obviously those I imagine

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Speaker 1: who are pro the legislation.

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Speaker 2: Sure, so the people that are offended to other people

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Speaker 2: that are being called baby killers, they're being exposed to

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Speaker 2: the fact that they support the injection of attacting chloride

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Speaker 2: into a baby's heart. I think in our society today,

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Speaker 2: we're just so quick to cancel anyone, and can you know,

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Speaker 2: cancel culture has just been a rampant for almost half

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Speaker 2: a decade now, and I think people are getting really

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Speaker 2: sick of it. Yes, the post is provocative, Yes it

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Speaker 2: is assertive, but I would argue it's accurate. And you know,

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Speaker 2: I think that there's a hierarchy of value. So yes,

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Speaker 2: some people get offended by it, but point to me

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Speaker 2: why it's inaccurate and then have a discussion with me

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Speaker 2: merely telling me you've got hurt feelings or you feel

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Speaker 2: offended or you think it's hate. That to me, isn't

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Speaker 2: a very strong argument when these people for a procedure

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Speaker 2: that intentionally kills babies in third hemester. I mean that

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Speaker 2: is actually, you know, in terms of hierarchy of values,

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Speaker 2: that's actually supporting killing of innocent people. And so you know,

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Speaker 2: I think there is a very robust debate that we

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Speaker 2: have to have around that very extreme position that people

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Speaker 2: like Lensick and Frank's and others who are exposed on

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Speaker 2: that post are taking.

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Speaker 1: Okay, no remorse on you're part. Obviously you're going to

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Speaker 1: keep it up.

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Speaker 2: Well. I think part of what I feel cool to

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Speaker 2: do is to break this issue of abortion open. We

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Speaker 2: do have abortion up to birth for any reason across Australia,

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Speaker 2: not just in South Australia, and we haven't had a

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Speaker 2: proper discussion about late term abortion. You know, in South Australia,

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Speaker 2: eighty percent of late term abortions kill healthy, viable babies.

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Speaker 2: They don't need to be injected with potassium chloride, they

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Speaker 2: could be induced to lives rather than dead. That was

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Speaker 2: all the Live Births Bill did and I think most

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Speaker 2: reasonable South Australians would agree with that proposition. And you know,

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Speaker 2: I think sometimes to force the conversation that people are

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Speaker 2: reluctant to have, you have to be a bit provocative.

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Speaker 2: And I stand by the accuracy of the post and

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Speaker 2: I would say to people who are offended by it

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Speaker 2: to say that you know, I am speaking for babies

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Speaker 2: that have no voice and who you endorse injecting with

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Speaker 2: attesting chloride. They can't speak to their right to be

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Speaker 2: offended because they don't have that capacity. And I think,

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Speaker 2: you know, when we look at the greatest human rights

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Speaker 2: atrocities of our time, it's always been when one group

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Speaker 2: of civilians have claimed that another group doesn't have human rights.

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Speaker 2: And that's what's going on here that people who are

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Speaker 2: born like Lamesic Chapman of Frank's, etc. Connie Bonnaris, they

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Speaker 2: support injecting babies with attaching chloride into the heart because

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Speaker 2: they don't categorize those third trimester babies as human beings

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Speaker 2: with rights. Otherwise, how could you justify this? And so

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Speaker 2: part of my goal is to sort of call a

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Speaker 2: spade a spade. We often speak about abortion in eupemisms

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Speaker 2: reproductive rights, the woman's right to choose, but I think

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Speaker 2: we have to talk really concretely about what this is.

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Speaker 2: And in the third trimester, it is intentionally killing a baby.

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Speaker 2: It's completely medically unnecessary to do that for the women's health.

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Speaker 2: She has to deliver that baby anyway, Let's just deliver

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Speaker 2: that baby alive. And that's the very sensible position that

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Speaker 2: this very radical fringe group of women were against.

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Speaker 1: All right, Joanna how appreciate your time as always, Thank you,

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Speaker 1: Thanks Jackie. Doctor Joanna Howe on the Baby Killers Club

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Speaker 1: is how she's labeling her social media with the people

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Speaker 1: in favor of the legislation as it currently stands for

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Speaker 1: late term abortion abortion to birth, and you have to

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Speaker 1: ask why do we need that law in South Australia

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Speaker 1: or anywhere for that matter. And while I wouldn't propose

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Speaker 1: to speak for women making these decisions, I do share

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Speaker 1: the thought that unborn children don't have any rights to

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Speaker 1: speak out. I can see that argument very clearly. And

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Speaker 1: you know, if you I think going to consider an abortion,

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Speaker 1: my view would be do it early, not late. For

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Speaker 1: goodness sake,