WEBVTT - Ruby Jones on the government’s plan to demolish public housing 0:00:02.840 --> 0:00:05.920 So yeah, so this has been here since says I 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:06.320 was a kid. 0:00:06.680 --> 0:00:10.360 Yeah, I think Barry Barry has lived in his North 0:00:10.400 --> 0:00:12.360 Melbourne flat for most of his life. 0:00:13.039 --> 0:00:16.720 So there's two rulings here. I think this is a 0:00:16.760 --> 0:00:20.400 Sunner suit. And he's got twenty fours and he's got 0:00:20.400 --> 0:00:20.919 twelve floors. 0:00:21.560 --> 0:00:24.600 He has mild cerebral palsy and he's cared for by 0:00:24.640 --> 0:00:27.040 his mother here in his home. He has all the 0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:28.800 medical support he needs close by. 0:00:29.840 --> 0:00:31.760 And how many bedrooms did she say? 0:00:32.320 --> 0:00:34.519 I've got three bedrooms? Some of them got like four 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:38.800 or five bedrooms? Can I think, sir? Yeah? 0:00:38.920 --> 0:00:44.760 And tickets. His mosque is nearby his Erritrey and community 0:00:44.800 --> 0:00:49.880 surrounds him, as do his friends and wider family. This week, 0:00:49.920 --> 0:00:52.680 my colleague Ruby Jones went to visit him there and 0:00:52.720 --> 0:00:55.560 Barry told her about this moment in twenty twenty three. 0:00:56.560 --> 0:00:59.800 He remembers being in his home back in twenty twenty 0:00:59.800 --> 0:01:03.080 three getting a text message from a friend. This friend 0:01:03.120 --> 0:01:05.040 told him to turn on the TV, which he does. 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:08.760 I've got a calm saying a message saying hey, turn 0:01:08.840 --> 0:01:09.440 the town nine. 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:13.560 Barry watched as Daniel Andrews announced Barry's home in Melbourne's 0:01:13.600 --> 0:01:16.440 public housing towers would be demolished. 0:01:16.520 --> 0:01:19.880 And so that is how he finds out that the 0:01:19.920 --> 0:01:22.400 apartment that he's lived in for more than twenty years, 0:01:22.440 --> 0:01:25.880 the government wants to knock it down and he is furious. 0:01:26.200 --> 0:01:29.440 Once announcement came kicked in straight away my min started 0:01:29.480 --> 0:01:33.600 to just go and I workload basically what to do next. 0:01:34.280 --> 0:01:36.399 I think for anyone who lives in Melbourne, they will 0:01:36.440 --> 0:01:39.480 immediately have an image of those public housing towers. They're 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:42.080 pretty iconic to the city. You find them in the 0:01:42.080 --> 0:01:47.559 inner suburbs of Fitzroy, Carlton, Richmond, North Melbourne, that home 0:01:47.640 --> 0:01:51.200 to a lot of new immigrants, refugees, people who are 0:01:51.240 --> 0:01:55.000 living on low incomes, and those people who were sitting 0:01:55.000 --> 0:01:59.000 in those homes in September twenty twenty three, they had 0:01:59.120 --> 0:02:02.440 no idea that and Andrews was about to announce that 0:02:02.760 --> 0:02:05.040 the government planned to tear these towers down. 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:14.760 From Schwartz Media, I'm Daniel James. This is seven AM Today, 0:02:14.880 --> 0:02:18.680 reporter and co host of seven Am Ruby Jones on 0:02:18.800 --> 0:02:22.240 plans to demolish public housing during a housing crisis and 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:25.040 the David and Goliath fight to stop the towers falling. 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:30.760 It's Friday, April fourth. 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:35.800 Ruby. 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:38.760 Once Barry hears Dan Andrews say on TV that the 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:41.920 towers would be locked down, he was shocked, he was angry. 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:43.320 What does he do about it? 0:02:44.120 --> 0:02:47.359 So he starts talking to people, and everyone in these 0:02:47.360 --> 0:02:50.040 towers is talking to each other. They're asking him what 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:53.800 he's going to do, what they should do. And eventually 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:56.920 Barry ends up connecting with a local legal service, the 0:02:56.960 --> 0:03:00.640 Inner They're called Inner Melbourne Community Legal, and they end 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:03.959 up launching a class action and they ask him if 0:03:04.040 --> 0:03:06.840 he will be a part of it, and he eventually 0:03:06.919 --> 0:03:08.600 ends up actually being the lead plaintiff. 0:03:09.320 --> 0:03:12.959 So Barry decides to take on the Victorian government over this. 0:03:14.200 --> 0:03:16.240 Tell me about the case he's making. What's his argument? 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:19.080 Yeah, so the basis of his claim is that the 0:03:19.120 --> 0:03:23.240 way that the government made this decision without consultation is 0:03:23.280 --> 0:03:25.959 not compatible with his human rights or anyone else who 0:03:25.960 --> 0:03:28.960 lives in the towers. So I spoke to one of 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:31.680 the lawyers from in a Melbourne Community Legal about this, 0:03:31.800 --> 0:03:32.840 Louisa Bassini. 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:34.200 My name's Luisa Bassini. 0:03:34.200 --> 0:03:37.640 I'm the manager of Housing and Tendency in a Melbourne 0:03:37.680 --> 0:03:40.640 Community Legal. We work closely with people who live in 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:44.360 public housing in this area. So I think we were 0:03:44.400 --> 0:03:46.640 the first port of call for them when the announcement 0:03:46.720 --> 0:03:47.040 was made. 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:48.600 She has been leading the class action. 0:03:49.040 --> 0:03:52.760 We made an argument that people have the right not 0:03:52.880 --> 0:03:56.760 to have their homes arbitrarily interfered with under the Charter 0:03:56.760 --> 0:03:59.600 of Human Rights and Responsibilities Act, that there needs to 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:02.560 be an opportunity for people to have a say when 0:04:02.600 --> 0:04:06.000 a decision is being made that so directly affects them. 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:08.800 Victoria has this Charter of Human Rights. It was put 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:11.600 in place back in two thousand and six, and it 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:16.400 requires public authorities, so state and local government departments to 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:20.160 act consistently within the human rights of that chatter flowing. 0:04:19.839 --> 0:04:22.400 From that, you know, our argument was that even if 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:26.480 there is a decision made that public housing needs to 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:32.600 be renewed, so improved or grown, whatever on, the estates 0:04:33.240 --> 0:04:37.480 that any objective that the government is seeking to achieve 0:04:37.760 --> 0:04:41.960 needs to be pursued in a manner that is the 0:04:42.040 --> 0:04:43.880 least restrictive on people's rights. 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:46.880 And so this all comes back to consultation. The idea 0:04:46.920 --> 0:04:49.599 that because the government didn't consult with the residents before 0:04:49.640 --> 0:04:52.800 they made this announcement, they've disregarded those human rights. And 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:56.960 she says that flowing on from that, other options should 0:04:57.000 --> 0:05:00.440 have been investigated, things like improving the towers other than 0:05:00.520 --> 0:05:01.880 knocking them down, for example. 0:05:02.320 --> 0:05:04.680 How has the Victorian government responded to this? 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:09.520 Yeah, so Homes Victoria. They made several arguments in their defense. 0:05:09.720 --> 0:05:11.360 So first of all, they say the towers, it does 0:05:11.400 --> 0:05:14.159 not fit for purpose. They're in bad condition, there are 0:05:14.200 --> 0:05:19.160 all these noise problems, problems with accessibility, safety concerns, and 0:05:19.240 --> 0:05:22.320 that they can't retrofit them. The impact of that would 0:05:22.360 --> 0:05:25.760 be the same as redevelopment anyway. They also say that 0:05:25.920 --> 0:05:29.719 they did consider the impact on human rights. They know 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:33.120 that the redevelopment program will affect people's home lives, their 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:36.960 community connections, and their ability to access local services, but 0:05:37.000 --> 0:05:39.960 they say that they have taken steps to minimize those impacts. 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:43.080 And then they also say that they have consulted. They 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:45.840 said that they got some reports about the feasibility of 0:05:46.000 --> 0:05:49.680 refurbishing the towers versus redeveloping them. But I think it's 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:52.520 important to say here that they didn't consult with the 0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:55.320 people in the towers. That all happened after the announcement, 0:05:55.360 --> 0:05:57.000 after people had already seen it on TV. 0:05:57.720 --> 0:06:00.000 Right, So what do we know then about the government 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:03.600 decision making process. I mean, who did they actually consult 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:04.479 and what were they told. 0:06:04.800 --> 0:06:06.480 It's a really interesting question. 0:06:06.600 --> 0:06:11.200 So there are these series of reports that Homes Victoria 0:06:11.440 --> 0:06:14.520 commissioned when they were investigating all of this, and then 0:06:14.560 --> 0:06:17.080 they sent these reports to cabinet to look at. But 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:21.480 because they were prepared for cabinet, they're considered cabinet in 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:23.719 confidence and they're not public. 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:28.159 But we do know who was consulted with. 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:33.719 They've seen this list and it's really largely engineering consultancies. 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:35.800 There's also an architecture firm. 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:40.240 There's a demolition contractor, and then there's this global commercial 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:41.719 real estate this firm. 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:45.080 But no residents. But no residents, right, so how does 0:06:45.120 --> 0:06:45.960 it all go in court? 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:48.880 Well, so we're waiting on a decision and that decision 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:50.880 is due in just a few hours time, at ten 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:53.800 am this morning, and so I think right now there'll 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:55.960 be a lot of residents getting ready to go down 0:06:55.960 --> 0:06:58.680 to the courthouse to hear what the judge has to 0:06:58.720 --> 0:07:02.080 say in real time. But while this court action has 0:07:02.120 --> 0:07:06.000 been going on, Holmes Victoria agreed to not evict anyone. 0:07:06.440 --> 0:07:10.600 What they have done is sent letters to residents offering 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:15.440 to relocate people. And I'm sure that Homes Victoria would 0:07:15.480 --> 0:07:18.160 say that what they're doing is giving people their options. 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:21.480 But for a lot of residents receiving these letters, it 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:24.680 actually feels like pressure is being placed on them to leave, 0:07:25.120 --> 0:07:27.680 and that's what they have been doing en mass, and 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:31.400 they say it really feels like it's eviction by stealth. 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:36.720 Coming up after the break the class actions chance of 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:46.840 success Ruby the Victorian government can't evict people at least 0:07:46.880 --> 0:07:50.320 while this class action is ongoing. But nonetheless, residents are 0:07:50.360 --> 0:07:53.440 feeling the pressure to relocate. So tell me what the 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:54.520 vibe is on the ground. 0:07:55.000 --> 0:07:59.320 Yeah, So everyone who lives in these towers, they are 0:07:59.360 --> 0:08:02.160 guaranteed a PLA to live while the redevelopments happen. The 0:08:02.160 --> 0:08:05.600 government has said that. But the way that it works 0:08:05.880 --> 0:08:09.760 is that people under the guidelines of Homes Victoria, they 0:08:09.800 --> 0:08:14.120 are entitled to two offers of housing. When they receive 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:17.320 them and see that, a lot of them get really 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:20.920 concerned that if they don't accept the first offer they get, 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:23.960 then maybe the next offer won't be as good. And 0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:27.160 then they wonder what happens if they don't accept that 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:30.480 second offer. Because it's been outlined they're only entitled to two. 0:08:30.640 --> 0:08:30.880 Now. 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:33.800 The Victorian government maintains that no one will be made 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:38.199 homeless and that housing officers are working closely with everyone. 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:40.320 But I think what's ended up happening is that a 0:08:40.320 --> 0:08:43.400 lot of the people who might disagree with the government's 0:08:43.400 --> 0:08:47.199 plans to get rid of these towers, they are relocating 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:49.720 because they feel like they don't have any other options. 0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:53.360 So according to Barry, some of those include families who've 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:55.520 had to split up because there hasn't been houses that 0:08:55.559 --> 0:08:58.200 have been big enough for them. And when you go there, 0:08:58.640 --> 0:09:00.800 I mean, not only is the place emptying out, there 0:09:00.840 --> 0:09:05.760 are already construction crews testing the soil below the building 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:07.280 that Barry lives. 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:13.600 In, testing the soil for the production so for the 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:14.000 real book. 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:18.720 But they haven't. Wow, okay, so we've got the class. 0:09:19.679 --> 0:09:20.760 Yes. Yes. 0:09:20.920 --> 0:09:27.200 So the message is that this is happening, whether or 0:09:27.240 --> 0:09:30.800 not you like it. And that's something that Barry himself 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:33.640 has felt, I think very acutely, because his own mother 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:36.680 and brother have also been telling him that they want 0:09:36.720 --> 0:09:39.720 to leave. They've been getting the letters too, and they're 0:09:39.880 --> 0:09:43.880 worried about their future. So he, you know, he's convinced 0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:46.080 them to wait it out. Because he is the lead 0:09:46.080 --> 0:09:49.240 plaintiff in this case, so he obviously can't leave. But 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:52.240 I think he is very worried and so the rest 0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:53.560 of his family about their future. 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:57.640 So the judgment will come down at ten am today. 0:09:58.320 --> 0:09:59.400 What's likely to happen. 0:09:59.720 --> 0:10:02.040 Yeah, So I asked Harry about that and he said 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:04.679 he thought it was fifty to fifty. I would say 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:08.560 that the lawyer who's working on the class action, Louisa Passini, 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:10.200 having she seemed less hopeful. 0:10:10.559 --> 0:10:12.640 I think it's pretty clear it's a. 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:16.079 Real David and goliathe kind of fired. So if they lose, 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:18.920 so Barry will have to move and everyone who lives 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:21.200 in his state will as well. Most of them will 0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:24.280 go into community housing, which is different from public housing. 0:10:24.360 --> 0:10:27.960 So in public housing, the government is your landlord, the 0:10:28.000 --> 0:10:30.640 rent is capped at twenty five percent of your income. 0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:34.000 But community housing is quite different. It's run by not 0:10:34.080 --> 0:10:37.199 for profits, the rent tends to be higher and there 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:39.880 are just less benefits in general. And if we look 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:42.880 to what happened in Barrie's estate, So just a couple 0:10:42.920 --> 0:10:47.040 of weeks ago, the Victorian government actually released the plan 0:10:47.160 --> 0:10:51.840 for that site, and that plan includes a mix of 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:56.240 private rentals and community housing, but that does not include 0:10:56.280 --> 0:10:59.160 any public housing at all. I mean I spoke to 0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:02.679 someone of Victoria Victorian government who said that each estate 0:11:02.760 --> 0:11:05.480 will be approached on a case by case basis. But 0:11:05.520 --> 0:11:08.160 if you look at what has happened to the very 0:11:08.200 --> 0:11:12.040 first one that the Victorian government has redeveloped, I think 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:15.600 it's pretty clear to see that it's a very different 0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:17.559 kind of a state than the one that Barry grew 0:11:17.600 --> 0:11:17.800 up on. 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:21.080 And then there is the location. So for Barrier, that 0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:21.520 means that. 0:11:21.840 --> 0:11:24.439 If he moves, he he might lose his community, he 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:27.080 might lose easy access to the mosque across the road, 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:30.280 and you know, to the landscape of his entire life. 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:33.040 Really and I think if you look more broadly at 0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:36.080 what will happen, the inner suburbs of Melbourne are going 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:40.000 to change drastically if these towers do not exist. You know, 0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:43.000 it's already an incredibly expensive place for people to live, 0:11:43.440 --> 0:11:47.880 and if you remove the towers, that only becomes more acute. 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:51.120 You only get more gentrification. And so the inner suburbs 0:11:51.120 --> 0:11:53.640 of Melbourne they become wealthier and they become whiter. 0:11:54.160 --> 0:11:57.520 And this case is coming in the middle of housing crisis. 0:11:57.600 --> 0:12:01.160 Which is a key election debate. What will the effect 0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:02.560 be on housing? 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:05.240 Yeah, I mean the Victorian government is making the case 0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:08.360 that this will improve the housing crisis, so they say 0:12:08.400 --> 0:12:10.679 that there'll be more homes at the end of all 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:14.079 of this, and more social housing specifically as well by 0:12:14.280 --> 0:12:14.920 ten percent. 0:12:15.559 --> 0:12:17.240 You know, that is kind of the stated aim of 0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:17.600 all of this. 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:19.400 But when you start to speak to people who work 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:22.160 in the housing sector, you know, it's clear that they're 0:12:22.200 --> 0:12:26.040 pretty worried. This could make the housing crisis worse because 0:12:26.040 --> 0:12:29.000 it will put pressure in the public housing weightless, you know, 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:31.040 even more than there already is pressure, which you know, 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:34.040 could mean that more people are homeless. And I think 0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:36.560 one of the big problems that they identify is that, 0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:39.160 you know, even if there is the same amount of 0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:42.320 housing or more housing replacing what's being knocked down, it 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:44.000 is all going to take a lot of time. These 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:47.240 new builds, they don't happen quickly. It takes years and years, 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:50.040 and in the meantime, this housing squeeze, it just gets 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:53.320 tighter and tighter. And at the end of the day, 0:12:53.360 --> 0:12:56.640 it comes back to how you see public housing and 0:12:56.679 --> 0:12:59.520 whether you think that it's you know, a principle that 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:04.120 governments should provide housing for people or whether I think, 0:13:04.120 --> 0:13:07.120 as is increasingly being seen, public housing is kind of 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:10.320 a social service that really is only for the poorest 0:13:10.400 --> 0:13:12.520 of the poor and should only be used for a 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:15.640 short time until people can kind of somehow find their 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:18.840 way into the private rental market. So there is this 0:13:18.880 --> 0:13:22.600 bigger ideological shift underpinning this transition, but that is not 0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:25.720 really a conversation that is being had out in the 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:29.320 open at this point. Having said that, I think there 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:32.640 is people within labor who are uncomfortable with this plan, 0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:34.120 particularly federal labor. 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:35.920 As the election approaches. 0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:39.040 There are MPs who have these towers in their electorates, 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:41.679 and I think some of them are worried about what 0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:45.400 this means for them when they're walking into an election 0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:47.440 that is going to be about the cost of living 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:50.520 and about housing, Like, is it a good look for 0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:54.920 them when public housing is being demolished, particularly when these 0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:57.400 towers is public housing, I think for a lot of 0:13:57.440 --> 0:14:00.920 people is a symbol of a time when governments did 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:04.040 really invest in housing for people. It was seen as 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:06.960 a fundamental human right and something that we should expect 0:14:06.960 --> 0:14:08.160 our governments to provide. 0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:11.480 Ruby James, thanks fit Reporting and thank you for coming 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:12.720 on seven AM this morning. 0:14:13.480 --> 0:14:14.000 Anytime. 0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:31.080 Daniel also of the news today, Australia has been hit 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:33.640 with a ten percent tariff and all goods exports to 0:14:33.680 --> 0:14:37.280 the United States as part of US President Donald Trump's 0:14:37.320 --> 0:14:41.440 sweeping Liberation Day announcement. Australia's rate was one of the 0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:46.200 lowest announced tariffs, matching the UK, Singapore, Turkey, Brazil and 0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:50.600 other countries. Ten percent has been described as the baseline amount, 0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:54.480 and Anthony Albertinzi says the Trump administration may have breached 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:56.920 the terms of our trade deal with the United States 0:14:57.560 --> 0:15:00.520 and has threatened to use dispute resolution powers within our 0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:03.800 free trade agreement. The government could be set to take 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:06.840 the United States to the World Trade Organization to resolve 0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:10.080 the issue. And we'll have full coverage of the political 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:13.480 fallout of Trump's tariffs on a special edition of seven 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:17.600 AM tomorrow. I'm Daniel James. I'll catch you then.