Speaker 1: I'm Ruby Jones and you're listening to seven AM. The
Speaker 1: killing in the city of Elfasha, in Sudan's staff War
Speaker 1: region is so brutal and widespread that bloodstains on the
Speaker 1: ground can be seen from space. For a year and
Speaker 1: a half, a militia group called the RSF has been
Speaker 1: attacking the city, and last week it fell, resulting in
Speaker 1: the mass slaughter of civilians. In the past two years,
Speaker 1: twelve million people in Sudan have fled their homes and
Speaker 1: more than one hundred and fifty thousand people have died,
Speaker 1: making this the world's largest humanitarian crisis. The violence is
Speaker 1: sponsored and enabled by the United Arab Emirates, a key
Speaker 1: Western ally, raising questions about the West in action and complicity.
Speaker 2: Today.
Speaker 1: Sudanese political analyst and founder of the think tank Confluence
Speaker 1: Advisory Hallud Hair on what is unfolded in al Fascia
Speaker 1: and what comes next for Sudan. It's Friday, November seventh,
Speaker 1: so a lot a few days ago the world saw
Speaker 1: these images of blood stained ground into four which is
Speaker 1: evidence of violence so widespread that it is visible from space.
Speaker 1: Tell me what you thought when you saw those images.
Speaker 3: Well, it's very indicative of the sort of scale of
Speaker 3: the violence that has been reported. A lot of the
Speaker 3: violence that we're seeing is actually documented by the RSF
Speaker 3: soldiers themselves in videos that have been posted on social media,
Speaker 3: on TikTok, on Instagram and other apps as well. The
Speaker 3: scale of the violence that we're seeing against the people
Speaker 3: in fashion is reminiscent of other genocides. You have, you know,
Speaker 3: the separating of men and boys from women and girls
Speaker 3: that we saw during the Srebonita massacre. You see the
Speaker 3: velocity of the killing that we saw in the Rwandan genocide.
Speaker 3: You see the siege and starvation of people, you know,
Speaker 3: ahead of mass episodes of slaughter that was sow for example,
Speaker 3: in Raza. You know, to my mind, this is very
Speaker 3: clear that we have the systematic targeting of ethnic communities
Speaker 3: by the RSF that is very much consistent with the
Speaker 3: types of a trustee violence we see during a genocide.
Speaker 4: Horrific details emerging out of Sudan as the two year
Speaker 4: civil war reaches a dangerous new phase. AID agencies reporting
Speaker 4: new evidence of genocide citing these On top.
Speaker 3: Of that, we have seen videos where they dehumanize the
Speaker 3: people they're about to kill and they say you know,
Speaker 3: it's rabbits a season and we need to you know,
Speaker 3: chase after them as they're chasing after them in the
Speaker 3: middle of the desert and killing them. So we see
Speaker 3: all the hallmarks here of a sort of genocidal violence
Speaker 3: playing out. There was a recent report that said about
Speaker 3: seven thousand people had been killed in the past sort
Speaker 3: of eight days, and that's average of one thousand a days.
Speaker 3: So there's a huge number of people that are losing
Speaker 3: their lives. But we have, according to un estimates, two
Speaker 3: hundred and sixty thousand people, half of whom one hundred
Speaker 3: and thirty thousand were children who were in ul fashion
Speaker 3: before Old Fashed fell, and the numbers of people who
Speaker 3: have since made it out of Old Faship only number
Speaker 3: about sixty thousand. So we still have about two hundred
Speaker 3: thousand people that are unaccounted for, which means the atrocity
Speaker 3: risks that have been in place since Lashed fell continued
Speaker 3: to be there.
Speaker 1: And talk to me a bit about how what's happening
Speaker 1: in El Fashia right now fits in in the broader
Speaker 1: context of war in Sudan over the past couple of years.
Speaker 3: So the RSF has been trying to get its hands
Speaker 3: on Alfashed for the better part of eighteen months now,
Speaker 3: and Fashia itself has had been under siege per Abaus
Speaker 3: five hundred and fifty days before it finally fell in
Speaker 3: the hands of the RSF.
Speaker 5: In Sudan's north, what was once a sanctuary is now
Speaker 5: under siege. The road to alf Fasher, Sudan's last major
Speaker 5: city that hasn't fallen, a battleground targeted by the rebel
Speaker 5: paramilitary Rapid Support Forces or RSF, who've been accused of
Speaker 5: ethnic cleansing.
Speaker 3: The Submizan forces that was stationed there. They fled Al
Speaker 3: Fashia two days before it fell, effectively leaving the people
Speaker 3: of Alfasha to their fate. With the RSF.
Speaker 2: RSF fighter's cheer in front of the army headquarters and
Speaker 2: El Fasher in Darfur. It's a strategic victory for the
Speaker 2: paramilitary group which has been fighting the Sudanese army since
Speaker 2: twenty twenty three. The government forces have now lost their
Speaker 2: last remaining stronghold in Sadan sta Full region.
Speaker 3: We've seen them make further moves towards other towns in
Speaker 3: the southwesterly region. The RSF is keen to consolidate its
Speaker 3: military control over the western territory of Saddan, because this
Speaker 3: allows it to keep the supply lines of weapons and
Speaker 3: fuel consistent that come in through Libya, Chad, Central African
Speaker 3: Republic and parts of South Sudan. Much of the weaponry
Speaker 3: that is coming through those supply lines is thought to
Speaker 3: originate from the United Arab Emirates, which has been a
Speaker 3: key supporter of the RSF since the start of this war.
Speaker 3: So this they believe is quite a turning point for
Speaker 3: them in terms of their fortunes, after having lost swathes
Speaker 3: of territory over the past year before the rainy season,
Speaker 3: and now starting off this dry season or fighting season
Speaker 3: with sort of a bang, if you will, and moving
Speaker 3: ever eastwards, eventually they hope into the capital Khartoum again
Speaker 3: and then eventually into the Red Sea.
Speaker 1: So the RSEF is now in control of Elfacher and
Speaker 1: it has been a bar with the Sudanese Armed Forces
Speaker 1: since twenty twenty three. Those two militias were initially partners
Speaker 1: in government. Can you take me back and tell me
Speaker 1: what happened in twenty twenty three to begin this war.
Speaker 3: So if we want to look at the origins of
Speaker 3: this conflict, we have to go two years before it
Speaker 3: broke out in Jartu, which is the coup of twenty
Speaker 3: twenty one.
Speaker 6: Now, after thirty years in power, Sudanese President Omar al
Speaker 6: Bashir has been overthrown by the military. It comes after
Speaker 6: months of deadly protests over his repressive rule. On Thursday,
Speaker 6: Defense Minister Alad Mohammad Ahmad ibn Uf announced that Bashir
Speaker 6: had been arrested. A military council will now be formed
Speaker 6: and it will rule for two years before elections take place.
Speaker 3: Within that period, the staff and the RSF position themselves
Speaker 3: very well, particularly the RSSEF, to make sort of political
Speaker 3: claims as to representing the people and allowing civilian democratic
Speaker 3: rule to take shape, but realized that with the civilian government,
Speaker 3: the prospect of military rule from which they benefit would
Speaker 3: be diminished. That civilian rule would show value, that it
Speaker 3: would bring Sadan back in from the cold and really
Speaker 3: become part of the international community. Those successes very much
Speaker 3: threatened the security state of which the Sudnzan forces and
Speaker 3: the RSF were each part. But once they conducted this
Speaker 3: coup together in twenty twenty one, the cracks between them
Speaker 3: really started to show.
Speaker 7: More explosions in Sudan's capital, Hartoum in the first minutes
Speaker 7: of what was supposed to be a ceasefire but did
Speaker 7: not take effect as Sudan's army and most powerful paramilitary
Speaker 7: fight each other for the fourth day.
Speaker 3: They did not agree, for example, on how they would
Speaker 3: consolidate this coup. Then those questions were really never answered
Speaker 3: because just ahead of an agreement that would have seen
Speaker 3: a lot of these issues, if not resolved then at
Speaker 3: least addressed, the Rapid Support Forces and the Sudesearm Forces went.
Speaker 8: To war, two warring sides, each supported by multiple armed groups.
Speaker 8: The Sudanese armed Forces and the paramilitary Rapid Support Forces
Speaker 8: used to work alongside each other, but have been locked
Speaker 8: in a bloody civil war since April twenty twenty three.
Speaker 3: Now to this day, we don't have firm evidence of
Speaker 3: who fired the first shot and therefore started off in Khartoum,
Speaker 3: But what we do know is that because the war
Speaker 3: started in Khartoum, then Sudan has such a centralized state structure.
Speaker 3: This has had a reverberating impact on state functionality in general.
Speaker 3: So we have seen very sharp state collapse across the country.
Speaker 3: Banks suddenly weren't able to function, telecommunications struggled. Services such
Speaker 3: as health and education became impacted. Seventy percent of health
Speaker 3: centers were suddenly out of commission. Ninety percent of school
Speaker 3: children were suddenly out of school in the first few
Speaker 3: years of the war. By and large, most of the
Speaker 3: population Insteradan has no access to public infrastructure, public services, policing, etc.
Speaker 1: Coming up, how Western weapons are being used in the
Speaker 1: genocidal violence. And this is not simply a conflict between
Speaker 1: two rebel groups. This is too fully armed and back militias.
Speaker 1: The SAFF is supported by countries including Egypt and Russia
Speaker 1: and Iran. But as you mentioned, the RSF has been
Speaker 1: supported by the UAA. Can you tell me more about
Speaker 1: what we're not about that?
Speaker 3: So the UAE denies supporting the RSF, But there have
Speaker 3: been very well grounded and well founded pieces of evidence
Speaker 3: that point two are very sustained campaign by the UAE
Speaker 3: to support the RSF. So we have had investigative reports
Speaker 3: by the Wall Street Journal, the New York Times. The
Speaker 3: UN's own panel of experts has said that its found
Speaker 3: credible evidence of the UE supporting the RSF.
Speaker 9: The UAE's foreign Ministry tells for UA it is not
Speaker 9: providing any support or supplies to the Rapid Support Forces
Speaker 9: or to any of the warring parties in Saddan, but
Speaker 9: to UN reports, says there is credible evidence to the
Speaker 9: country and we.
Speaker 3: Know through open source intelligence analysts or ocent analysts that
Speaker 3: there are several flights, especially over the past few months,
Speaker 3: but certainly since the start of this war, that saw
Speaker 3: plane falls of weapons land in nearby countries for use
Speaker 3: of the RSF, where the UAE has created us sort
Speaker 3: of alliances with countries all around Sudan.
Speaker 10: The waterrn country is surrounded by major arms trafficking hubs.
Speaker 10: Apart from Chad, weapons and ammunition are smuggled in through
Speaker 10: countries like Libya, the Central African Republic, South Sudan, and Uganda.
Speaker 3: But the RSEF also sits on land that has a
Speaker 3: lot of gold deposits, and the UAE of course has
Speaker 3: some of the world's largest gold markets, particularly in Dubai.
Speaker 3: Now the irony is that the UAE also had very
Speaker 3: until very recently economic agreements and economic relationships with the
Speaker 3: Sydney's Armed forces as well, particularly around gold where several
Speaker 3: gold companies, especially one in the eastern part of the
Speaker 3: country was co owned by the Sydney's Armed Forces and
Speaker 3: then several Amoralti companies, and so what we see here is,
Speaker 3: you know, sort of a scramble for Sudan, if you will.
Speaker 3: That has a lot more to do with access to
Speaker 3: resources and an influence over the Nile and the Red Sea.
Speaker 3: And because Sidan straddles so many geo strategic zones, whether
Speaker 3: it's a Hell, the Horn of Africa or the Red Sea,
Speaker 3: it becomes a prize for countries like the UE that
Speaker 3: have these imperial ambitions in the region. That sees it
Speaker 3: sort of rise out of its middle power status to
Speaker 3: really become a hegemen in the region. The UAE, for example,
Speaker 3: outspends China and parts of the African continent, and it's
Speaker 3: actually relied upon by the West to outspend China economically speaking,
Speaker 3: and so that has given its a very particular position
Speaker 3: which it has relied upon in order to minimize the
Speaker 3: level of censure it gets from the West.
Speaker 1: Can we talk a little more about that, because the
Speaker 1: US is of course a key ally to the UAA.
Speaker 1: It's got diplomatic partnerships with many countries in Western Europe,
Speaker 1: So to what extent do you think that those global
Speaker 1: ties have allowed these atrocities to continue to occur.
Speaker 3: Well, the atrocities are fed by local dynamics. We see
Speaker 3: the Arab groups that make up the RSF really try
Speaker 3: to settle scores historical scores around key grievance's local grievances
Speaker 3: under the cover of this national level conflict that is ongoing.
Speaker 3: But certainly the RSF would not have the capacity to
Speaker 3: be able to carry out such acts of violence and
Speaker 3: certainly will not be in such a sophisticated position, particularly
Speaker 3: in regards to the weaponry that it has, were it
Speaker 3: not for the support of the United Arab Emirates. But
Speaker 3: every statement that we have seen from Washington, from Whitehall,
Speaker 3: from Brussels, from New York, the United Nations, even closer
Speaker 3: to home of the African Union, whilst all of them
Speaker 3: mentioned the violence committed by the RSF and mentioned the
Speaker 3: RSF by name, they do not mention the support that
Speaker 3: they get from the United Arab Emirates. And that's because
Speaker 3: the UE has positioned itself very well visa v its allies,
Speaker 3: particularly in the West, where it's become indispensable on several
Speaker 3: files on data and crypto, particularly following Donald Trump's recent
Speaker 3: visit of the summer to the Gulf region also interests
Speaker 3: around Israel and the security of Israel, in which the
Speaker 3: United Arab Emirates has positioned itself as really the only
Speaker 3: Arab ally in the region on that file. Then because
Speaker 3: of that, Sudan doesn't really rank very highly in terms
Speaker 3: of the foreign policy priorities that the West has with
Speaker 3: the UE.
Speaker 1: And so if the US and the Western world are
Speaker 1: as it seems unwilling to put pressure on the UAE
Speaker 1: to stop arming the RSF, how do you think this
Speaker 1: conflict is going to play out from here?
Speaker 3: Well, quite clearly, unless the West are going to call
Speaker 3: out the UAE, but also have consequences for the actions
Speaker 3: of the UAE, including are not limited to sanctions as
Speaker 3: well as stopping arms transfers and sales from these countries
Speaker 3: to the UAE, not much is going to change. We
Speaker 3: have seen recent reporting that shows that British, American and
Speaker 3: Canadian weapons or weapons parts finding their way into the
Speaker 3: rsf's hands having first been bought by the UAE. And
Speaker 3: this is very concerning for not just these countries that
Speaker 3: now become implicated in the acts of the RSF, but
Speaker 3: also becomes very concerning for the publics in these countries
Speaker 3: that do not want their governments to be party to
Speaker 3: the kind of genocidal violence that we're seeing taking place
Speaker 3: in therefor by the RSF right now. But again because
Speaker 3: of these shared interests with the UAE around data around Israel,
Speaker 3: it's very unlikely under the current conditions that we're going
Speaker 3: to see the West call out the UAE for supporting
Speaker 3: the violence of the RSF is committing.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for speaking with me.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Also in the news, almost three million Australian Microsoft customers
Speaker 1: who upgraded their plans plans to include the AI feature
Speaker 1: copilot will be offered a refund. The company emailed the
Speaker 1: refund offered to subscribers, admitting they had fallen short following
Speaker 1: legal action against them by the a Triple C. The
Speaker 1: consumer watchdog alleges Microsoft intentionally misled customers to believe they
Speaker 1: had to pay more for AI, even though they actually
Speaker 1: had the option to remain on their current plan. The
Speaker 1: tech giant faces multimillion dollar penalties if the court rules
Speaker 1: in the A Triple C's favor, and police are expected
Speaker 1: to apply for a warrant to arrest Bruce Lammon after
Speaker 1: he failed to appear in court on a charge of
Speaker 1: vehicle theft. The former staffer is alleged to have stolen
Speaker 1: a Toyota Prado last year, an allegation he denies. But
Speaker 1: when Lamman's matter was called in court yesterday, neither heat
Speaker 1: nor his lawyer were present. I'm Ruby Jones. This is
Speaker 1: seven am. Thanks for listening.