1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:03,320 Speaker 1: Hi, good a team. It's Dr Jody and Craig Athny Harper, 2 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:06,160 Speaker 1: It's the You Project, it's us, it's you, and I'm 3 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:08,280 Speaker 1: a bloody idiot. I tell you why I'm a bloody idiot. 4 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:11,320 Speaker 1: Put my hand up. I'm throwing myself under the bus 5 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 1: because Dr Jody and I just did a fabulous five 6 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 1: minutes or so of broadcasting without actually recording it because 7 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:23,320 Speaker 1: Fatty harps Jumbo over here, who's in charge of the buttons, 8 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:29,320 Speaker 1: didn't push the go button. Dr Jody, I apologize, welcome 9 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 1: back again. 10 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 2: Oh do you know what, Craig, it's so comforting for 11 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 2: all of us to know how many podcast episodes have 12 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:39,479 Speaker 2: you recorded and that you have made a small mistake, 13 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 2: and thankfully we realized very soon and very early on. 14 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:45,480 Speaker 2: So I am great, and I know what you're gonna 15 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 2: ask me, and I didn't the first time round, so 16 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 2: I'm better prepared. 17 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:51,960 Speaker 1: Well, can I tell you one way worse than you 18 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 1: and me? Which was about four minutes of wasted time? 19 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: But then was it? Maybe it was beautiful, But I 20 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:05,399 Speaker 1: interviewed the hesitant of the Hawthorne Footy Club whole interview. 21 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:08,399 Speaker 1: I mean, also, it's not like he's got a lot 22 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 1: of free time, Andy Gowers. It's not like, oh, he's 23 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:15,559 Speaker 1: got heaps of free time because he works full time 24 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: in another capacity. Also is the president of Hawthorne Footy Club. 25 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:25,199 Speaker 1: Me fifty minutes, I was about fifty minutes until fifty 26 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:29,319 Speaker 1: five minute podcast and I realized, and I'm like, so 27 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 1: do I make mistakes? Well, that's the worst one I've 28 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 1: made in the history of the U Project. Not that 29 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 1: you're not a big deal, but at least wasted. At 30 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 1: least I wasted four minutes of your life, not fifty. 31 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 1: All right. So for those of you who haven't met 32 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: doctor Jodi among well, you give our newbies, you give 33 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 1: them a snapshot of who you are, rather than me, 34 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 1: do it? 35 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 2: Oh, Craig Okay, well hello, and it's lovely to be yeah, 36 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 2: spending some time I'm with you if you haven't met 37 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 2: me before. I was just saying to Craig, I was 38 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 2: so anxious the first time I was a guest, and 39 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:08,920 Speaker 2: I've lost count. So I've been a guest on and 40 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 2: off over the last few years. So I am I 41 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 2: guess my life's work is around helping people to understand anxiety, 42 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 2: to know that it is something that we can do 43 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 2: many things to dial down, settle down, settle ourselves, understand it, 44 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 2: cope with it more than cope with it, support other people, 45 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 2: and that I do that as a professional speaker in 46 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 2: workplaces and schools. I have a weekly podcast, Well Hello Anxiety, 47 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 2: and I have written two books, two anxiety books, one 48 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 2: for parents and one for anxious mums. So I live 49 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 2: with it. It's very much a part of my life. 50 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:53,679 Speaker 2: And I'm medicated for my anxiety. So I feel like 51 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 2: I have a really good handle on what it's like 52 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 2: to live with it, and also all of the kind 53 00:02:57,680 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 2: of the professional side of what we can do about 54 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:01,640 Speaker 2: it to live a really good life, even if it's 55 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 2: part of it. Yeah. So that's me in a. 56 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 1: Nutshell perfect And I've done something which I never do. 57 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 1: I've prepared for a chat. And I'll tell you why 58 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:12,679 Speaker 1: I prepared because I feel like with doctor Jodi, we 59 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 1: just well, I just well, No, I mean, I think 60 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 1: we get good feedback, so it must not be terrible. 61 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: But I think I could probably use your knowledge and 62 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:28,559 Speaker 1: your skills and your experience and your understanding of anxiety 63 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:32,080 Speaker 1: and all of the intersecting issues and variables in a 64 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 1: more productive way. Than I have. So today we're going 65 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 1: to be grown up. So I'm going to actually ask 66 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 1: you grown up questions that might be of value that 67 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: people can go, oh cool, well that's really good to know. 68 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: That makes me less stressed, or that's good to know 69 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 1: I might try that, or I didn't know that. That's 70 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 1: a revelation. So and every time I talk to you, 71 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 1: you know, and I've been around people with mental health 72 00:03:57,720 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: issues and people who have struggled, and I've had my 73 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: own little moments in time, but every time I talk 74 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: to you, every time I learn it at least one 75 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 1: new thing. So so I'm very grateful to you. All Right, 76 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 1: now you know what question one is, but I'm going 77 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: to ask it again for the because of course of 78 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: our false start everyone. So question one is, what is 79 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 1: something about anxiety that most people either get wrong or 80 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:20,839 Speaker 1: don't understand? 81 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:24,840 Speaker 2: Well let me think, no, I know the answer is one. 82 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 2: So the thing about it, So first and foremost, I 83 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 2: just want to say that like anxiety, living with it, 84 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:35,800 Speaker 2: it can be so painful and so debilitating, and like 85 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:40,040 Speaker 2: I've been there, and what I didn't understand at the beginning, 86 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:42,920 Speaker 2: and what I really love to help people sort of 87 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 2: be clear about with anxiety is it it's you know, 88 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 2: essentially in the brain there's a threat that has been 89 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 2: detected around us. For some reason, when we feel anxious, 90 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 2: we don't feel safe. It could be because we're doing 91 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:01,599 Speaker 2: something really important like a job into or we could 92 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:05,040 Speaker 2: be doing something that other people find easy, like even 93 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 2: just picking up the phone and making a phone call. 94 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:09,719 Speaker 2: So anxiety can show up for different people in different ways. 95 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:13,599 Speaker 2: But I think the thing I want most people to 96 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 2: understand that is often misunderstood is that it's not something 97 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 2: that we can eliminate from our lives. It's something that 98 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:26,160 Speaker 2: is there to keep us safe. But just our brain 99 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 2: constantly going into that survival mode of I detect a threat, 100 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:34,279 Speaker 2: your life is in danger means that often our anxiety 101 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 2: is really overreacting and overprotective to what's happening for us. 102 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 2: We can't get rid of it because it is there 103 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 2: to keep us safe. It's our brain sort of alarm system. 104 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 2: But what we can do is we can live an 105 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 2: amazing life by getting a good understanding what's happening, having 106 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 2: a willingness to turn around and have a little look 107 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 2: at your anxiety and get to know it a bit 108 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:02,160 Speaker 2: better and understand it and sort of end the struggle. 109 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:04,599 Speaker 2: One of the things I love to say is imagine 110 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 2: you're in a tug of war with your anxiety. You'd 111 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 2: kind of like letting go of the rope. Anxiety is 112 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 2: still there, you're just dropping the struggles. So I guess, 113 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 2: you know, one of the things that I think is 114 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 2: misunderstood is that you know, we can wait for it 115 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:20,840 Speaker 2: to go to do the things we want to do. 116 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 2: And another thing, too, is that some people think that 117 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 2: just time will help heal it. But time actually doesn't 118 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 2: heal anxiety unless you're doing certain things to move it 119 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,720 Speaker 2: to the background, and often it gets worse if it's 120 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 2: left unaddressed. 121 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 1: I feel like with everything you know, everything from anxiety 122 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:49,040 Speaker 1: to nut allergies to how we respond to weight training, 123 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:55,039 Speaker 1: to you know, our physiological response to being in a 124 00:06:55,120 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 1: small room, or I feel like it's different for different people. Two, 125 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:06,160 Speaker 1: It's like anxiety manifests differently and at different levels, and 126 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 1: is triggered by different things in different people. Obviously, So 127 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 1: my question is like, for example, while you say we'll 128 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 1: always probably deal with anxiety on a level, but isn't 129 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: it possible that the thing that used to give me anxiety, 130 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: say public speaking doesn't anymore. 131 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, you can. Absolutely, Yeah, that's a really good question. 132 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 2: And I was just thinking while you were talking there 133 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 2: was something I wanted to add. Absolutely, there's no question 134 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 2: that we can manage it. We can settle it, and 135 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 2: we can we can learn to live with it in 136 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 2: a way that it doesn't stand in the way of 137 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 2: us doing those things. But the only way forward is through. 138 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 2: And what I overlooked saying before, is it anxiety show 139 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 2: up around the things that we care about. So, like 140 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 2: you and me, we stand in front of groups of 141 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 2: hundreds or over a thousand people in a room with 142 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 2: a microphone. And I don't know about you, but I 143 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 2: mean I don't get so anxious I can't do what 144 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 2: I want to do, but I still feel anxious because 145 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 2: I care about it. You know, anytime you're doing something 146 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 2: that's important, it's a very natural thing to feel. So 147 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 2: we can settle it down. And I often say we 148 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 2: dial it down because we don't want it to overwhelm us, 149 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:38,199 Speaker 2: because when it overwhelms us, we can't actually think and 150 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 2: use the part of our brain we often need to 151 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 2: to perform well in the situations we are anxious about yes, so. 152 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, true. You know what's interesting as you were saying that, 153 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 1: as you're talking about you and doctor Jody gets on 154 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 1: stage and talks to groups and companies and organizations like me, 155 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:59,559 Speaker 1: and yeah, I'm you and I probably similar in that 156 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 1: if I've got I've got a bunch of gigs coming up, 157 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:04,960 Speaker 1: and some of them are really big, and my overwhelming 158 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 1: emotion is excitement. Right. However, as we're recording this, it's 159 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 1: eleven seventeen and at two o'clock today, so in less 160 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 1: than three hours, I've got a zoom meeting with my 161 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: senior academic supervisors where I've got to talk and give 162 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: them a bit of a debrief on where I'm at 163 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 1: with the progress of my what they call project right, 164 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 1: which is your PhD. Right, that me talking to them 165 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: two or three depends on who shows up. Where I've 166 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:41,679 Speaker 1: got a talk for twenty thirty minutes to tell them 167 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:43,680 Speaker 1: where I'm at, what I'm doing. Da Da da da da. 168 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 1: That gives me not overwhelming but low level anxiety where 169 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 1: I'm worried. Now, that's me talking to two or three 170 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:57,080 Speaker 1: people on Zoom versus Hey, Harps, you're in the Grand 171 00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:59,839 Speaker 1: Ballroom at the Hiatt or whatever, and I'm like, what 172 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 1: zero zero fear just fun just can't wait, just fucking 173 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: let me out there. So it is funny, like the 174 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 1: same the same activity in a different setting or context 175 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: or for a different reason. So yeah, it is interesting. 176 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:23,079 Speaker 1: Like when I've done my you know what they call milestones, 177 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 1: academic milestones where you stand in front of board, you 178 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 1: and I have spoken about. I didn't know I could 179 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 1: be so scared. It's so funny. Look, because I think 180 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: I don't get scared of much, and in my general life, 181 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:37,560 Speaker 1: I don't. I get scared about mom and dad dying 182 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 1: a bit. I don't overthink it. But I'm like, yeah, 183 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 1: I'm not excited about that when I think about things 184 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 1: that I'm fearful of. But then when I started doing 185 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:50,320 Speaker 1: these things where I'm definitely absolutely the dumbest person in 186 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 1: the room in this conversation, and then you think, oh, 187 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:56,320 Speaker 1: they're all smarter than me, they're all better than me, 188 00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 1: they're all more academic than me, they've all got more 189 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:02,440 Speaker 1: miles on the clock than me. Ah, for sure, I'll 190 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: be found out, you know. So yeah, that's an maybe 191 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: that's a variable in there. 192 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 2: Oh it's and it speaks to the fact that you 193 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:15,200 Speaker 2: care very very deeply. Of course you do. This is huge, 194 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 2: like what you're undertaking doing completing a PhD. Is it. 195 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:23,559 Speaker 2: It's not for the faint hearted. It's very very stressful 196 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:26,440 Speaker 2: and a huge, huge part of the meetings that you're 197 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 2: having is that the outcome of this goal that you've 198 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 2: set for yourself, you know, is at every step where 199 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 2: you have these milestones, you have these meetings. It's there's 200 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:41,719 Speaker 2: that uncertainty about the outcome versus the first time you're 201 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:43,839 Speaker 2: on stage. I mean, I don't know like I think 202 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 2: when I first started, Like it's like anything, we're more anxious. 203 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 2: But the more experience we get and the more predictable 204 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:55,080 Speaker 2: and experience becomes, the less anxious we're going to feel 205 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 2: about it. And public speaking is unpredictable because like you 206 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 2: and me, we don't don't have notes in our hands. 207 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 2: We're just you know, talking, But we have the confidence 208 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 2: in ourselves and we have the experience under our belt 209 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:09,720 Speaker 2: that I've done this before, I can do it again. 210 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 2: And we're anxious because well I'm anxious because number one, 211 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 2: I have an anxiety disorder. But too it's a mix 212 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 2: of anxiety and excitement. But the circumstances that you're under 213 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 2: for this meeting today. It's perfectly natural that you feel 214 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:31,640 Speaker 2: that way. And I you know, once you've once you've 215 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 2: submitted and you've passed, and if you have a meeting, 216 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:39,559 Speaker 2: I imagine your anxiety will be a lot less because 217 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 2: the outcome is known and the novelty, the questions, the 218 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 2: uncertainty can can really be very threatening to our brain 219 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:52,440 Speaker 2: because the brain's like, well, I don't know what's happening here. 220 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:56,199 Speaker 2: Let's just put you on high alert because this feels dangerous. 221 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 1: Lot. All right, I'm very bad at asking questions. I've 222 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:06,200 Speaker 1: got twenty questions. I've asked one, right, we definitely won't 223 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 1: get through twenty. Our question two is how do we 224 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 1: tell the difference between normal, garden variety worry and a 225 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:22,679 Speaker 1: clinical anxiety disorder? Like, what's the Yeah, how do we 226 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: how do we know the difference? 227 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:28,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, So the worry being a symptom of anxiety and 228 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 2: a very prevalent symptom of anxiety. Lots of worries are 229 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 2: a part of the picture, as well as lots of 230 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 2: bodily symptoms. So really, what what we want to look 231 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 2: at is fundamentally and there are there are checklists, and 232 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 2: there are diagnostic tools, of course, but fundamentally, is it 233 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:53,440 Speaker 2: getting in the way of daily life? You know, is 234 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 2: it frequent? Is it extreme? And is it stopping you 235 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 2: the person from being able to do the things that 236 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:03,320 Speaker 2: you want to do. Is it stopping you from saying 237 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 2: yes to catching up with some old friends that are 238 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 2: you know, a reunion dinner for for your high school buddies, 239 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:12,319 Speaker 2: or is it stopping you from putting your hand up 240 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 2: for that opportunity at work that's a step out of 241 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:18,080 Speaker 2: your comfort zone, It's a step up a level, and 242 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 2: you're not sure of whether or not you'd be successful. 243 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 2: You know, is it stopping you from being able to 244 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 2: be present with your children because your mind is us 245 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 2: We're focusing on things that may never happen, and we 246 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 2: know from the research they're unlikely to happen. And so yeah, 247 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 2: I think normal everyday anxiety will come and go with 248 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 2: a stressful situation. And you know, my daughter recently had 249 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 2: a job interview for a fast food restaurant and she 250 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 2: had a job interview sit down with a manager and 251 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 2: she had to answer questions about how does the previous 252 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:57,119 Speaker 2: experience you've had as a gymnastics coach and a babysitter. 253 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 2: How what have you learned and how does that translate 254 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 2: to you know, you potentially being a good candidate here, 255 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 2: and that will create anxiety when you know you've got 256 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 2: the interview, you'll probably be during it. But when it's over, 257 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:13,360 Speaker 2: it settles down. That's normal, all. 258 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: Right, we're plowing on, Doc, and you're doing bloody great. 259 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 1: Question three, like us like grown ups, asking and answering. 260 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 1: Can you give us a snapshot of what's actually happening 261 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 1: in someone's brain and body in the middle of a 262 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:33,520 Speaker 1: moment of anxiety or like an episode from want of 263 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 1: a better Like what's happening in their brain, what's happening 264 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 1: in their body? Just so people might be able to 265 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 1: identify or relate. 266 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 2: Oh I love these questions, Craig So, yes, absolutely. So. Basically, 267 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 2: if we think about so we think about five senses. 268 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 2: We think about our five senses, but we actually have 269 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 2: other senses, and one of them is called neuroception, and 270 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 2: that is the sense that is essentially scanning our environment 271 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 2: all the time. So essentially we're looking out for cues 272 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 2: of danger and safety wherever we go, wherever we are, 273 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 2: and that could be from people, It could be from 274 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 2: the environment. It just could be from unexpected sounds, noises, smells. 275 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 2: So there's a part of our brain that is taking 276 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 2: in that information and determining very very quickly whether we're 277 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:28,120 Speaker 2: safe or we're not. If we are in an environment 278 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 2: that is detected determined to be unsafe for whatever reason, 279 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 2: then it activates the stress response in the body. Because 280 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 2: the brain doesn't know the difference between literally sitting down 281 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 2: and opening up an email from your boss that says, hey, 282 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 2: I needed to talk to you after lunch. That feels 283 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 2: threatening because well, what do they want to talk to 284 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 2: me about? What have I done wrong? All of the 285 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 2: what if questions come. That is very activating because it 286 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 2: feels threatening because we don't know what's going to happen. 287 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 2: The activation is same as if you were going down 288 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:05,439 Speaker 2: the street to get your coffee and you're on your 289 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 2: phone and you're nearly step in front of a cart. 290 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:11,159 Speaker 2: The brain doesn't know the difference between a real threat 291 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 2: to safety and one that's imagined or perceived. So the 292 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 2: threat system is activated and through a series of changes 293 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 2: that affect adrenaline, belief and activation of the sympathetic nervous system. 294 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 2: So that's the branch of our nervous system that really 295 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,879 Speaker 2: helps us respond in times of stress. We get a 296 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:37,879 Speaker 2: whole lot of physical changes so that the changes in 297 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:40,679 Speaker 2: essence are to power up our bodies so that we 298 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:45,919 Speaker 2: can fight or flee. And those changes people will know 299 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:51,679 Speaker 2: very well. Racing heart sometimes pins and needles in the 300 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 2: arms and legs, will have changes to our breathing, will 301 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 2: have blood shunted from our dart to our arms and legs. 302 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 2: We can run, we can fight, we can defend ourselves, 303 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 2: we can keep ourselves safe, we can have changes to 304 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 2: our vision. And you know, essentially all of these different 305 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 2: physiological changes are there because our brain thinks we are 306 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 2: in you know, danger of life threatening danger, and we 307 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 2: need to be able to move quickly. So the thing 308 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 2: about anxiety is that so that's when the stress response 309 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 2: is activated. We feel all of this anxiety will activate 310 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:33,360 Speaker 2: that response. Just lying in bed at night and thinking, 311 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 2: like our daughter recently got a concussion, harps. You knew 312 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 2: about that, and there's a concussion. But like I'm lying 313 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 2: in bed at night and I put my head on 314 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 2: the pillow that are ready to go to sleep, and 315 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 2: if my mind drifts to do you hope she's going 316 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 2: to be okay. I wonder, really what the outcome of 317 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:53,879 Speaker 2: this kick to the head at football is going to be. 318 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:59,680 Speaker 2: Just thinking about that will activate that whole response, even 319 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 2: though I'm safe, tucked in electric blanket on, snuggled down 320 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 2: and warm. That's what gets activated. And so that's really 321 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 2: what's happening in the brain and the body. And we 322 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 2: often have a lot of worry because the brain is 323 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 2: trying to understand the problem and worrying about what the 324 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 2: outcome will be and trying to find some certainty around 325 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 2: the situation that triggered the anxiety in the first place. 326 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 1: So here's me, Craiger, find some of that. If I 327 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:35,680 Speaker 1: get it wrong, stop me. But I feel like we're 328 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 1: talking about a physiological response. So elevated blood pressure, breathing, adrenaline, cortisol, 329 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:45,400 Speaker 1: sympathetic nervous system, all of these things happening, blood going 330 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:50,160 Speaker 1: to your limbs, all that, all these physical changes physiology, 331 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 1: which might be completely turned on or activated for one 332 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 1: of a better term, by a non physical thing, which 333 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:01,439 Speaker 1: is an idea. The idea is, oh my god, something 334 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 1: bad's going to happen. Now, let's just say in this 335 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:07,920 Speaker 1: story that I'm talking about nothing bad is going to happen, 336 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:11,880 Speaker 1: not in the foreseeable future. It's just a thought. So 337 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 1: our body doesn't respond to what's real. It responds to 338 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 1: the perception or the idea. Now, if I'm being like 339 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 1: this sounds self defeating and self loathing. But in many ways, 340 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 1: I am stressing. I am creating anxiety for me when 341 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 1: anxiety or all this elevation of physiology is not at 342 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 1: all required by the reality of the situation. So I 343 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:45,160 Speaker 1: make me stressed. I make me anxious via my stories. Now, one, 344 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:52,399 Speaker 1: if that's true, can we then, like mitigate that somewhat 345 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:56,879 Speaker 1: by changing our stories or what we pay attention to. 346 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 2: Absolutely we can, And there are skills and practices that 347 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 2: we can learn. And this gets back to what we 348 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:06,920 Speaker 2: were talking about at the beginning, that you can There's 349 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 2: so much that we can do. It is a treatable 350 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:13,159 Speaker 2: mental illness, if you like. I don't usually like to 351 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:18,120 Speaker 2: call it that psychological challenge. It's treatable. We can't change. 352 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 2: We can dial down the sensitivity of the alarm in 353 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:26,200 Speaker 2: our brain if you like, through certain practices like meditation. 354 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 2: But the way we think can absolutely change the way 355 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 2: that our body will respond to things that might previously 356 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 2: have been very, very triggering and caused a full blown 357 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 2: physiological response. Yeah, definitely, definitely. 358 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, Yeah, I'm always curiosity, curiosity, I'm always curious around, 359 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:55,639 Speaker 1: you know, thinking about thinking, metacognition, and even with my 360 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:57,960 Speaker 1: own you know, I have a thought, you know, sometimes 361 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 1: you have just fucking weird thought. 362 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 2: Oh my idea. 363 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm so glad no one lives in my 364 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:09,120 Speaker 1: head because that is a weird thought, right, But then 365 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:11,600 Speaker 1: to lean into that and go, you were one. That's 366 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:15,920 Speaker 1: weird too. I'm glad I can recognize its weirdness. But three, 367 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 1: where does that come from? Like? What is that about? 368 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 1: What is that? You know, when you start to get 369 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:25,760 Speaker 1: curious about how you think and you start to question 370 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:30,479 Speaker 1: your stories rather than automatically believe them, like that's a 371 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 1: powerful kind of pause button to go yeah, yeah, I yeah, 372 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 1: I am a piece of shit and then like, well, 373 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,680 Speaker 1: hang on, no, that's a story. The story is I'm 374 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,200 Speaker 1: a piece of shit. I'm unlovable, I'm not this, I'm 375 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,200 Speaker 1: not that enough, I'm too much of that. All right, 376 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 1: let's just hit the pause button. Is it possible that 377 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:56,160 Speaker 1: that stuff's not true? Or some of it's not true, 378 00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:59,840 Speaker 1: Is it possible? You know, then you start to reframe, 379 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:01,080 Speaker 1: you know, go on. 380 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:04,960 Speaker 2: It doesn't actually matter if it's true or not, because 381 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 2: some of the stuff we are going to think is 382 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 2: going to be true, and some of the stuff we're 383 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:12,959 Speaker 2: going to think is going to be false. What matters 384 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:18,119 Speaker 2: is what we are thinking about helpful And it's a 385 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:21,640 Speaker 2: very very different way of looking at it. But it's 386 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 2: hard to sort of cut through the noise, you know, 387 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 2: because our minds will race away and all of a sudden, 388 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,200 Speaker 2: our mind's drifted. It's like when we're reading a book 389 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,880 Speaker 2: and we realize I have not read the last two pages. 390 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 2: We recognize, okay, I've drifted. My attention is on something else. 391 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 2: Have I put the bins out? That was the latest thing? 392 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:43,439 Speaker 2: You know, Like obviously my mind just went to, oh, 393 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 2: the bins, you know, Cozy and company in bed and 394 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 2: we've got a couple of hundred meter walk to put 395 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,920 Speaker 2: the bins out. Anyway, so we end up moving away 396 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 2: from the present moment and we can get caught up 397 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 2: in that. So we need to develop the skills to 398 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:03,440 Speaker 2: be more present of mind and when we can notice 399 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:06,160 Speaker 2: what we're thinking, Like you say, think about what we're thinking. 400 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,120 Speaker 2: One of the things I think I've shared before here, 401 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 2: but really so worthwhile to share again. There's a very 402 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 2: powerful strategy from the behavioral therapy, acceptance and commitment therapy. 403 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 2: And this was a game changer for me because we 404 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,919 Speaker 2: do get very caught up in is it true or not? 405 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:29,159 Speaker 2: And then when we believe something's true, like you've got 406 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:30,640 Speaker 2: a mole on your arm and you think it's skin 407 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 2: cancer that you know, the belief around that drives that 408 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 2: sick feeling in that anxiety response. So what you can 409 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,200 Speaker 2: do is say, all right, you know, I'll use the 410 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:45,919 Speaker 2: freckle as the example. I'm having the thought that this 411 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:52,880 Speaker 2: this skin spot is cancerous. So I I've already stopped. 412 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:55,440 Speaker 2: I'm not spiraling anymore that oh my gosh, this is 413 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 2: skin cancer and I'm going to die next week. Okay, 414 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,479 Speaker 2: I notice I'm having this thought about it. And then 415 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 2: the next thing, the next step is it helpful? Well, actually, 416 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:06,720 Speaker 2: you know what that is something helpful to worry about. 417 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,160 Speaker 2: We should worry about because it could be a problem. 418 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 2: How about we do something next. But I'm you know, 419 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,160 Speaker 2: I'm stupid, i can't do it. I'm not good enough. 420 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 2: You know, they're so painful. They're so painful, those thoughts. 421 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,400 Speaker 2: But when we say that I'm having that, I'm noticing, 422 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:28,400 Speaker 2: I'm thinking I'm not good enough? Is that helpful? Well, no, 423 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,359 Speaker 2: it's actually not. So what can I do next that 424 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:33,840 Speaker 2: would be helpful instead? 425 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 1: Yeah? That makes sense? Good question? All right? Three down seveneen. 426 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,880 Speaker 2: Good answer, Good question, Chads. 427 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 1: Question four. In your view, are we over pathologizing uncomfortable 428 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:56,200 Speaker 1: emotions or are we under treating genuine mental health issues 429 00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:00,720 Speaker 1: or maybe option C, which is neither of the girls, 430 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:02,639 Speaker 1: all of the above, or a bit of both. 431 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 2: Yes, we overpathologize difficult emotions. It is only human to 432 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,399 Speaker 2: feel a whole range of emotions, and I think we 433 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:19,679 Speaker 2: get sort of lulled into this trap of thinking that 434 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:22,879 Speaker 2: it's normal to be happy all the time, that that's 435 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 2: really what life is about, which it's not. And it's 436 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,639 Speaker 2: actually not normal to be happy all the time. Nobody is, 437 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:38,200 Speaker 2: and the feelings, all feelings are really normal and human. 438 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 2: And I read it quote the other day that joy 439 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,199 Speaker 2: is the matetriarch that can only arrive when all of 440 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:49,399 Speaker 2: her children have been welcomed, and it was a really 441 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 2: profound quote. I think I put it in my newsletter 442 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 2: last week. I'm probably butchering it a little bit, but 443 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 2: you get the gist. I would dearly love, I would 444 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 2: dearly love for everybody to know that whatever comes up 445 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 2: for us, whatever we're feeling, even you know, we don't 446 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 2: like it, we don't want to feel it, and so 447 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 2: we try to struggle with it. We try to pretend 448 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:16,160 Speaker 2: it's not happening, distract ourselves, maybe numb ourselves with you know, 449 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:20,960 Speaker 2: chocolate or food, or drinking or drugs or what you 450 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:26,879 Speaker 2: name your vice. When overwhelmingly, when difficult emotions come up, 451 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 2: when we can recognize that this is the experience we're having, 452 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:36,720 Speaker 2: and we can say to ourselves, I'm feeling so disappointed 453 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:39,880 Speaker 2: or I'm feeling terribly upset about this, so I'm so distressed, 454 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:44,919 Speaker 2: or I'm so overwhelmed right now, simply that idea of 455 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 2: naming it, we know from the science, reduces the distress 456 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:52,239 Speaker 2: in itself. But when we can just sit and go, right, well, 457 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 2: I'm just going to feel a bit like this for 458 00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 2: a while, I'm going to feel a bit crap for 459 00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,439 Speaker 2: a while, I'm going to feel a bit sad for 460 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,440 Speaker 2: a while, and just go okay, well, that's just how 461 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,080 Speaker 2: I'm feeling at the moment, and then you know, we've 462 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,199 Speaker 2: acknowledged it. We've welcomed it, not because we want it 463 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,080 Speaker 2: to come back every day, but we're sort of not 464 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 2: shoving the door, you know, closed. Then we process it 465 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 2: because we have to move through what we feel. We 466 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:19,720 Speaker 2: try as we might. We can't go around under over 467 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:22,359 Speaker 2: or they do catch up with us as we know. 468 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,239 Speaker 2: So in terms of sort of the over pathologizing, like 469 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 2: it is natural to feel devastated when you lose a 470 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 2: loved one. It is natural to be sad for weeks, 471 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 2: maybe months, even if you know you lose a pet. 472 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 2: It's natural to feel terribly disappointed if you don't get 473 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 2: the job that you've applied for. They're all natural. In 474 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 2: terms of the other part of the question, which was 475 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:52,440 Speaker 2: related to are enough people? So, was it are enough 476 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 2: people getting the help they need for? 477 00:28:55,600 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll challenge like is it over perthologized? Like are 478 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 1: we just going everyone who's having a bad day, Oh, 479 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 1: you've got this, you've got that. It's like I feel 480 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:10,240 Speaker 1: like people are given labels. You just go somewhere and 481 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 1: it's like you've got this, you need that, you need 482 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 1: this medication and I'm I'm not trying at all being insensitive. 483 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 1: I'm like, is it possible that I'm actually just a 484 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 1: regular human having a shit day? And shit days are 485 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 1: just normal part of the human experience. It's not an illness, 486 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 1: it's human. Is there that? Or and the part B 487 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:40,480 Speaker 1: was or are we under treating genuine you know issues 488 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 1: mental health issues? 489 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, and there are a lot of people who are 490 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:47,640 Speaker 2: struggling with their mental health who aren't connecting with help 491 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 2: and support, and so I think I think it's probably 492 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 2: you know, it's a d you know, a little bit 493 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 2: of the above, which is it's so human, Like, I mean, 494 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 2: terrible things happen to us because you know, to to 495 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 2: live the lives that we have with meaning we're going 496 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 2: to care about things, and things don't always go the 497 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 2: way we want. You Inevitably the people we love will die. 498 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 2: We will too, and so these things are bloody painful. 499 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:16,880 Speaker 2: But there is obviously that point at which you know, 500 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 2: we can have our normal emotions that we move through 501 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 2: day to day versus emotions whether that be anxiety or 502 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:28,720 Speaker 2: sadness or anger, that overwhelm us and are hanging around 503 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:30,400 Speaker 2: for a long time and getting in the way of 504 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 2: our relationships, our work. There's that too. So yeah, that's 505 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 2: a complicated answer. I suppose all right, good. 506 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 1: You're going well, so far elephant stamp for you? 507 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:46,400 Speaker 2: Oh what the golds does? 508 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 1: So this one is more personal, right, So could you 509 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:54,720 Speaker 1: tell us one thing other than medication? Like, I only 510 00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:56,880 Speaker 1: want one and maybe there is not one at the 511 00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:58,680 Speaker 1: top of the list, but I just want one that 512 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 1: is at the top of the list or near the 513 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:04,680 Speaker 1: top of the list. A protocol, a practice, a habit 514 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 1: that works best for you in alleviating the mayhem of anxiety. 515 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 1: So other than taking im ds, what is one thing, 516 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 1: one practice or ritual that you have that's really proven 517 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 1: to be valuable. 518 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 2: It's my breath and it is frequently during the day 519 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 2: lengthening my exhale, and I sometimes try to remember to 520 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 2: do the physiological side, which requires an extra inhalation. So 521 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 2: it would be like. 522 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:43,080 Speaker 1: This, right, So just describe for people who are only 523 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 1: listening because we didn't hear it described for people. Sorry, 524 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 1: that's all right. Describe for people what you just did. 525 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:53,920 Speaker 2: Okay, So Number one, the thing that helps me the 526 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 2: most is lengthening my exhale. So when I realize I'm stressed, 527 00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 2: I will just almost automatically go to that as a strategy, 528 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,040 Speaker 2: so slow my breathing length and my exhal out. I 529 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:06,240 Speaker 2: don't count it. I just slow down and lengthen it. 530 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:11,720 Speaker 2: Sometimes when I am doing a more deliberate breathing practice, 531 00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:16,760 Speaker 2: I'll use a version of that where you breathing inhal 532 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:18,000 Speaker 2: through your notes fully. 533 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, And then. 534 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,200 Speaker 2: There's a tiny little bit extra that if you just 535 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 2: do a little extra inhalation at the top, like a 536 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,600 Speaker 2: little sip, a little sniff at the top of that 537 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 2: inhalation through oat. So that's true, and then length in 538 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:33,520 Speaker 2: your exal that's called the physiological site. And I find 539 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 2: that to be profound in the way that it helps 540 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:40,560 Speaker 2: me settle my nervous system very very quickly when I'm anxious. 541 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:45,480 Speaker 1: Love it. I think that's yeah. I do a similar thing, Yeah, 542 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 1: kind of. I do a bit of box breathing, but 543 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 1: it's in the same wheelhouse. I wrote a thing the 544 00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:55,000 Speaker 1: other day. I want to ask you a question off 545 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:58,040 Speaker 1: the back of this thing. So I wrote this for 546 00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:00,880 Speaker 1: social media. The heading or the the title is not 547 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:06,600 Speaker 1: special in brackets, and that's okay. Maybe someone told you 548 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:10,200 Speaker 1: that you're special and amazing and gifted and unique. But 549 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,160 Speaker 1: what if you're not. What if you're a regular human 550 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:15,960 Speaker 1: who has to work hard like me, one who fucks 551 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 1: up and gets back up, one who tries harder and 552 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,840 Speaker 1: then tries harder, one who develops skill and confidence and 553 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 1: competence and maybe even mastery through effort and courage and 554 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:30,920 Speaker 1: discipline and repetition. What if, despite not being the unicorn, 555 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:34,480 Speaker 1: you decide to explore your outer limits to optimize what 556 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,239 Speaker 1: you have to work with, to outperform your fear and 557 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 1: self doubt and overthinking mind. And if you do, I'll 558 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:47,280 Speaker 1: be cheering you on. My question around that is, I'm 559 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 1: not a parent, so I wouldn't even pretend to have 560 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:55,360 Speaker 1: any unique insight into parenting or working with kids in 561 00:33:55,400 --> 00:34:03,200 Speaker 1: this kind of cognitive, psychological, sociological kind of space. But 562 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:11,160 Speaker 1: what's the the balance between, you know, every time your 563 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:14,520 Speaker 1: kid's got like the slightest thing, you run in there 564 00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:17,160 Speaker 1: with the nerf gun and the safety net and the 565 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:23,239 Speaker 1: warm blanket and the cuddle and then and you're always 566 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,600 Speaker 1: protecting them and always, And I get it, I understand 567 00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:30,319 Speaker 1: the compulsion to do that, But what's the cost of 568 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,160 Speaker 1: not letting kids fall over or have a hard day 569 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:39,000 Speaker 1: or come last, and you go, You're not special. You're 570 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,799 Speaker 1: loved by me, and you're special to me. I'm not 571 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,279 Speaker 1: saying I would say to a kid, you're not do 572 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:45,960 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? I mean, this is just 573 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,239 Speaker 1: the reality of the world is that not everyone is 574 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:54,359 Speaker 1: fucking special. But we have this story like I am 575 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 1: and I'm not throwing myself under the bus, but i 576 00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:00,160 Speaker 1: know my skills and abilities and talents and I'm I'm 577 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:03,840 Speaker 1: so not fucking special. And people go, oh, and that 578 00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,720 Speaker 1: makes people feel uncomfortable. Even when I say that, people 579 00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:08,799 Speaker 1: feel like they've got to come in and say no, 580 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:12,280 Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm fucking not. I'm not looking for attention 581 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,839 Speaker 1: or approval of validation. I don't need and I appreciate 582 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,920 Speaker 1: the love and the kindness and the empty but I'm not. 583 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:21,840 Speaker 1: There are some things that I'm good at, and that's 584 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:25,239 Speaker 1: mainly through work and effort and repetition. There are some 585 00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:30,719 Speaker 1: things I'm shit at and also that's okay, Like how 586 00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:34,719 Speaker 1: do we juggle this thing where you know, like we 587 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,640 Speaker 1: want simultaneously want to care about people and love people, 588 00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:43,480 Speaker 1: and or also we need people to be resilient and 589 00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,120 Speaker 1: if they never have to do hard things, or feel 590 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:50,440 Speaker 1: hard things, or make hard decisions, or get uncomfortable or 591 00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,920 Speaker 1: fall down or be embarrassed or look like an idiot, 592 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:56,760 Speaker 1: because all of those are the human experience. By the way, 593 00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:00,760 Speaker 1: if we're trying to constantly protect them from a feeling 594 00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:06,120 Speaker 1: anything bad or experiencing anything hard, how does that work? 595 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,759 Speaker 2: It doesn't work very well. And it's a there's a 596 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:14,759 Speaker 2: false kind of belief that that you you know, for 597 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,800 Speaker 2: some for some parents, And look, parenting is so difficult, 598 00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:21,400 Speaker 2: and I'm no parenting expert, and people people respond as 599 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:23,560 Speaker 2: parents because of the way that they were raised, and 600 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:26,400 Speaker 2: you know, the different sort of stories and experiences and 601 00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:29,439 Speaker 2: beliefs in their own lives. But what I can say 602 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:32,759 Speaker 2: is that you know that there's that old saying, isn't 603 00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:35,840 Speaker 2: it bamboo only gains its strength in the wind. It's 604 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:39,200 Speaker 2: it's we we only we only learn what we can 605 00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:43,799 Speaker 2: cope with by coupling with stuff. That's the only way 606 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:45,719 Speaker 2: we learn. We learn that if we you know, when 607 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 2: you're little, if you get wet socks because you jumped 608 00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,520 Speaker 2: in a muddy paddle that was too deep and the 609 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,279 Speaker 2: water went in your gum boot. Yes it's cold, Yes 610 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:56,960 Speaker 2: it's unexpected. Takes you by surprise, but you know what, 611 00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:59,399 Speaker 2: you realize we can just whip that sock off, pull 612 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:01,200 Speaker 2: the water out, put the boot back on, get on 613 00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:03,960 Speaker 2: with having some fun, like you know, right through to 614 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:09,560 Speaker 2: losing people in our lives, like I lost my gorgeous 615 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:13,799 Speaker 2: dear Annie jen and last October from a stroke, and 616 00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:16,839 Speaker 2: it's so devastating, and you do feel at the time 617 00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 2: like you'll never get through it, and that it's so 618 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:23,560 Speaker 2: painful and distressing, but you learn through time and experience 619 00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,719 Speaker 2: that you actually do, you do get through it, and 620 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:31,239 Speaker 2: so instinctively, as parents, our job is to keep our 621 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,120 Speaker 2: kids safe. Of course, don't let them run on the road, 622 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:36,879 Speaker 2: and don't let them fall from the monkey bars if 623 00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:39,920 Speaker 2: it's too far a drop, you know, of course, but 624 00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 2: we do. There's not enough risk taking, and it's through 625 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:49,120 Speaker 2: risk taking and play that young people actually learn to 626 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:51,920 Speaker 2: push on the edges of those boundaries and to manage, 627 00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:55,880 Speaker 2: you know, stretching themselves a little bit and experiencing a 628 00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:57,799 Speaker 2: little bit of fear, but knowing you know where the 629 00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:00,239 Speaker 2: boundaries are, and then stretching those a little bit more 630 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:05,360 Speaker 2: so you know, I also know that like as a 631 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:07,720 Speaker 2: parent myself, like you have to let your kids stuff 632 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:13,520 Speaker 2: up and fail, and you just have to because that's 633 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,960 Speaker 2: they'll learn through those experiences. And our job isn't to 634 00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:19,600 Speaker 2: keep them safe from everything. It's to prepare them for, 635 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:22,719 Speaker 2: you know, spreading their wings getting out to the big 636 00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:25,920 Speaker 2: wide world, which is not very precious. 637 00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:32,040 Speaker 1: Well, I mean, and that's the thing, right, I need 638 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:35,839 Speaker 1: to be careful here. But so I've got and had 639 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:39,560 Speaker 1: friends over the years who and people that I know 640 00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:42,200 Speaker 1: well and not so well. And it's not that their 641 00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:44,560 Speaker 1: kids are bad kids, they're not at all, but they've 642 00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:49,720 Speaker 1: just been so sheltered, so protected. Then they literally become 643 00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:53,279 Speaker 1: an adult. Okay, now they can drive, now, they can vote, now, 644 00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:55,480 Speaker 1: they can drink alcohol. Now they're going to go get 645 00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:58,680 Speaker 1: a job or go to university, and they are like 646 00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:03,960 Speaker 1: adults twelve year olds who oh yeah they can they 647 00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:07,520 Speaker 1: can land the Space Shuttle with their phone, but they 648 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:11,360 Speaker 1: can't have a hard conversation. They can't go in for 649 00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:15,000 Speaker 1: a job interview and look someone in the eye. They can't. 650 00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:20,040 Speaker 1: You know. It's like I think that, and I mean, 651 00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:22,520 Speaker 1: I don't know, but the challenges, yes, doing what you 652 00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:24,720 Speaker 1: were talking about. Yeah, we've got to love them, protect 653 00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:28,000 Speaker 1: them to a point but then also allow them to 654 00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:33,120 Speaker 1: have experiences where they can build resilience and competence and 655 00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:39,359 Speaker 1: capacity and understanding and situational awareness and social awareness and 656 00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:41,520 Speaker 1: all of these things where you're like, right, you're an 657 00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:45,640 Speaker 1: adult now. I mean, I've got friends who've got twenty 658 00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:49,879 Speaker 1: five year old kids who are like big babies. I mean, 659 00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:54,680 Speaker 1: they're well and truly grown ups, but oh my god, 660 00:39:54,719 --> 00:40:00,279 Speaker 1: the relationship is so fucking dysfunctional, and it's you. 661 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:04,720 Speaker 2: Know, well meaning loving parents can often do their kids 662 00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:08,960 Speaker 2: a huge disservice, and we've all done it. We've all 663 00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:11,359 Speaker 2: stepped in when we kind of realize in hindsight, oh, 664 00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:14,200 Speaker 2: I should have let that, you know, let that unbold 665 00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:18,800 Speaker 2: you know, you know we don't. But it's our pain 666 00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:23,160 Speaker 2: that we're trying. We have to learn to tolerate our 667 00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:28,120 Speaker 2: pain and our distress around the failure, whether it's not 668 00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:31,600 Speaker 2: getting the job, or or breaking up with the boyfriend 669 00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:35,360 Speaker 2: or girlfriend, or not getting the atar you know that 670 00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,640 Speaker 2: you need for the course that you want to get into. 671 00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:43,440 Speaker 2: But coming back to the you being special, I think 672 00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:46,359 Speaker 2: one of the things I think about is that you 673 00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:50,279 Speaker 2: do a lot of very special things. You've worked very 674 00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:56,040 Speaker 2: very hard and developed skills and with a perseverance, unlike 675 00:40:56,239 --> 00:41:00,640 Speaker 2: most people I know to be in a position where 676 00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:05,280 Speaker 2: you're doing a lot of wonderful things that that people 677 00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:09,640 Speaker 2: really admire about you. And it's hard, I think sometimes 678 00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:13,880 Speaker 2: when you don't see what's sort of turning behind the scenes, 679 00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:16,799 Speaker 2: behind the curtain of all the work that comes to it, 680 00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:23,440 Speaker 2: it's hard sometimes to kind of hold the two things 681 00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:27,120 Speaker 2: at the same time. That you speak in front of 682 00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:30,879 Speaker 2: big groups you loved and adored through your podcast and 683 00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:34,600 Speaker 2: through your community and your workshops, and you've written your 684 00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:37,719 Speaker 2: books and you sought after in so many ways. You're 685 00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:41,720 Speaker 2: finishing a PhD in your sixties. Those things are special 686 00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:45,480 Speaker 2: things to have achieved. But yeah, it's hard sometimes I 687 00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:47,160 Speaker 2: think to think, well, there's got to be something really 688 00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:48,759 Speaker 2: special about this person who's done all this. 689 00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:54,799 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, thank you, I appreciate all that. I This 690 00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:57,279 Speaker 1: is not my recommendation everyone, This is not what I 691 00:41:57,320 --> 00:41:59,920 Speaker 1: think you all should be. But for me, I've kind 692 00:41:59,920 --> 00:42:03,000 Speaker 1: of different rules for me. I think I should be 693 00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:07,839 Speaker 1: hard on me, but not in a self loathing way, right, 694 00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:12,080 Speaker 1: I think, you know, like my PhD is largely around 695 00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:16,279 Speaker 1: self awareness, situational awareness, social awareness, self other awareness, as 696 00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:21,160 Speaker 1: it's called in some research, but anyway, it's like, I like, 697 00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:24,759 Speaker 1: there's no bigger critic in the world of me than me. Now, 698 00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:26,960 Speaker 1: that doesn't mean I think I'm shit. I don't think 699 00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,160 Speaker 1: I'm shit. I also don't think I'm a gift to 700 00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:32,120 Speaker 1: the world. I don't think that at all, Right, But 701 00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:36,759 Speaker 1: I think it's this juxtaposition of being able to love 702 00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:41,520 Speaker 1: yourself in a healthy, not egotistical, but a healthy, emotionally 703 00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:45,799 Speaker 1: healthy way, right, but also go, yeah, I fuck that 704 00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:49,680 Speaker 1: thing up and I'm the problem, so I need to 705 00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:52,239 Speaker 1: undo it or fix it. And it's not mum and 706 00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:54,360 Speaker 1: Dad's fault, and it's not my genetics, and it's not 707 00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:56,279 Speaker 1: the boss, and it's not the government, and it's not 708 00:42:56,360 --> 00:43:00,319 Speaker 1: the weather, and it's not the situation. It's me. It's 709 00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:03,720 Speaker 1: very hard. We've had this conversation many times on this show, 710 00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:08,440 Speaker 1: like people want feedback until you give them feedback, Like, 711 00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:10,960 Speaker 1: oh yeah, I love feedback. No, you don't. You love praise, 712 00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:14,360 Speaker 1: you love support, you love all of those things. And 713 00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:16,560 Speaker 1: I don't blame you. Me too. When someone tells me, 714 00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:18,920 Speaker 1: I mace like you kind of just did, it's lovely. 715 00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:23,640 Speaker 1: It's great for my ego. However, there's a lot more 716 00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:26,880 Speaker 1: to me than the good stuff. You know, there's all 717 00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:28,880 Speaker 1: the fuck ups. There's all the things I've had to 718 00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:32,440 Speaker 1: do and undo and repair, and you know, there's my 719 00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:34,799 Speaker 1: ego and my shitty self worth and all of my 720 00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:38,000 Speaker 1: body image issues over the years, and all of the 721 00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:40,760 Speaker 1: behaviors that I hid from people because I was embarrassed, 722 00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:42,719 Speaker 1: because I wanted them to see me in a certain light, 723 00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:44,920 Speaker 1: so I'd eat a certain way publicly, and I'd need 724 00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:48,040 Speaker 1: a different way privately, And you know, all of this 725 00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:54,400 Speaker 1: very human, not very special, not very desirable stuff. You're like, oh, 726 00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:56,279 Speaker 1: so you're pretty fucked up. 727 00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:57,839 Speaker 2: Well I was. 728 00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:00,080 Speaker 1: You know, I'm probably still a bit fucked up. But 729 00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:02,319 Speaker 1: I'm a work in progress, and so I think that 730 00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:05,640 Speaker 1: to be able to go. Look, I'm better than I was. 731 00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:09,040 Speaker 1: I've still got work to go and I'm really trying. 732 00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:13,680 Speaker 1: And but you know, there are things that I still 733 00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:16,239 Speaker 1: don't do well, and some things I do do well 734 00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:22,000 Speaker 1: without getting trapped in the emotion of it all like 735 00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:25,720 Speaker 1: oh poor me, And it's like, well, of course people 736 00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:28,640 Speaker 1: don't give a shit about you sometimes, like have you 737 00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:32,640 Speaker 1: been out into the world. You know, some people want 738 00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:35,800 Speaker 1: you to fail, right, of course, Now I'm not saying 739 00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:38,360 Speaker 1: that's good. It's terrible. But it's just part of the 740 00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:42,480 Speaker 1: human experience, you know. Do I get people send me 741 00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:46,960 Speaker 1: fucking horrible messages? Of course, it's an inevitability. If you 742 00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:49,400 Speaker 1: write enough stuff and say enough things and have a 743 00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:53,600 Speaker 1: big enough audience. Of course, some people are gonna hate me. Okay, 744 00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:56,040 Speaker 1: So if you don't want any of that, Craig, then 745 00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:59,440 Speaker 1: get off social media. Don't say anything, don't have a podcast, 746 00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,680 Speaker 1: don't have a voice, step away from the public, go 747 00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:05,440 Speaker 1: live in the bush, our complant some veggie. Shut the 748 00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:07,720 Speaker 1: fuck up, get a golden retriever. Actually, this is sounding 749 00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:11,480 Speaker 1: very as it's coming out of my mouth. I'm like, 750 00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:14,840 Speaker 1: am I not doing that? Hey, Jody, we've got to 751 00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:17,800 Speaker 1: wind up. You're great. Tell people how to get your books, 752 00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:21,160 Speaker 1: listen to your show, give them the whole Jody spiel again, 753 00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:22,520 Speaker 1: if you would, please and thank you. 754 00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:26,279 Speaker 2: Oh Craig, it's always a pleasure. Thank you for having me, 755 00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:29,400 Speaker 2: and I really enjoyed this conversation. Oh yes, please just 756 00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:32,759 Speaker 2: google me d dr So it's Dr Jody with an 757 00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:36,280 Speaker 2: I j O. D. I. Richardson dot com is my website. 758 00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:41,040 Speaker 2: You'll find me on Instagram, and LinkedIn and Craig, I'm 759 00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:43,000 Speaker 2: not going to say what it is, but next time 760 00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:44,879 Speaker 2: we talk, I will be able to announce that I've 761 00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:49,319 Speaker 2: got something very special that I am going to be 762 00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:52,319 Speaker 2: releasing into the world, So I'll tell you off air. 763 00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:55,520 Speaker 2: But yeah, next time we talk, a jump to a 764 00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:57,759 Speaker 2: newsletter please if you'd like to be the first to know. 765 00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:02,040 Speaker 2: And yeah, that's on the bottom of my landing page 766 00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:04,319 Speaker 2: on my website. Yeah. I'm really excited to Chouse in 767 00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:08,239 Speaker 2: the making. Huge amount of work, poured my heart and 768 00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:08,920 Speaker 2: soul into it. 769 00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:14,800 Speaker 1: So yes, well, grats a preliminary congrats. That is exciting. 770 00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:19,480 Speaker 1: Jody's podcast is called will Hello Anxiety, so give that 771 00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:21,920 Speaker 1: a listen. I will say goodbye in a mini but 772 00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:23,000 Speaker 1: for now, thanks 773 00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:26,520 Speaker 2: Doc, Thanks Craig, thank you,