1 00:00:03,460 --> 00:00:08,950 Sean: Welcome to the Fear and Greed daily interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. This has been an extraordinary year for 2 00:00:08,950 --> 00:00:13,730 Sean: property in Australia. National house price growth has been phenomenal 3 00:00:13,860 --> 00:00:17,810 Sean: peaking at a monthly rate of 2. 8% in March across 4 00:00:17,810 --> 00:00:21,850 Sean: the year to November national dwelling values rose 22%, made 5 00:00:21,850 --> 00:00:24,810 Sean: up of a 21% increase in combined capital city values 6 00:00:25,110 --> 00:00:29,590 Sean: and an incredible 25% lift in regional Australia. The estimated 7 00:00:29,590 --> 00:00:32,339 Sean: total value of Australia's residential real estate has hit a 8 00:00:32,340 --> 00:00:36,729 Sean: record high of $ 9. 4 trillion up to staggering $ 2. 9 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:40,790 Sean: 2 trillion in just 12 months but where to now? 10 00:00:41,030 --> 00:00:44,610 Sean: The bank through all forecasting prices to slow significantly next 11 00:00:44,610 --> 00:00:48,190 Sean: year and then drop slightly in 2023. Tim Lawless is 12 00:00:48,190 --> 00:00:52,040 Sean: the Research Director for Asia Pacific at CoreLogic. Tim, welcome 13 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:52,809 Sean: back to Fear and Greed. 14 00:00:53,340 --> 00:00:55,290 Tim: Thanks, Sean. Great to be on the show again. 15 00:00:55,630 --> 00:00:58,940 Sean: First things first, your numbers we use every week. We 16 00:00:58,940 --> 00:01:03,230 Sean: love Corelogic simply because of the ability to turn around 17 00:01:03,230 --> 00:01:06,500 Sean: data so quickly, really is quite a skill to get 18 00:01:06,500 --> 00:01:10,030 Sean: those numbers out basically on Sundays after Saturdays. That's a 19 00:01:10,030 --> 00:01:10,620 Sean: lot of work. 20 00:01:11,010 --> 00:01:15,140 Tim: Absolutely and there's so many different data points in the 21 00:01:15,140 --> 00:01:18,309 Tim: housing market these days. From the auction results, which seem 22 00:01:18,310 --> 00:01:21,280 Tim: to get a lot of attention but more importantly, looking 23 00:01:21,380 --> 00:01:23,789 Tim: at the private treaty results, the number of sales that 24 00:01:23,790 --> 00:01:27,360 Tim: are coming through the rental market conditions. It's the biggest 25 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:30,690 Tim: asset class in Australia by far, so it's pretty important 26 00:01:30,690 --> 00:01:34,160 Tim: to be reporting very timely and accurately on the market 27 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:37,790 Tim: itself. So we do certainly try our hardest to make 28 00:01:37,790 --> 00:01:39,700 Tim: it very timely and high frequency. 29 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:42,300 Sean: You do a great job. Tim, I don't want to 30 00:01:42,300 --> 00:01:45,069 Sean: wage you but I have dealt with you for quite 31 00:01:45,069 --> 00:01:46,620 Sean: a few years. So he just put it that way. 32 00:01:46,910 --> 00:01:48,570 Sean: Have you ever seen a year like this one? 33 00:01:49,350 --> 00:01:52,620 Tim: Well, no, absolutely not and in many ways this has 34 00:01:52,620 --> 00:01:57,030 Tim: been the perfect storm for housing. We've seen so many 35 00:01:57,030 --> 00:01:59,960 Tim: different factors that have pushed housing prices to where they 36 00:01:59,960 --> 00:02:02,150 Tim: are at the moment. In fact, you'd have to go 37 00:02:02,150 --> 00:02:05,660 Tim: all the way back to the late 1980s to see 38 00:02:05,660 --> 00:02:08,070 Tim: a growth rate this strong. Back in the late '80s, we 39 00:02:08,070 --> 00:02:11,519 Tim: saw a peak rate of growth about 32%. And at 40 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:14,650 Tim: the moment we're seeing an annual rate of growth across Australia 41 00:02:14,650 --> 00:02:18,580 Tim: just a little bit over 22%. So it's not unprecedented 42 00:02:18,950 --> 00:02:22,299 Tim: but back in '89, when we saw housing markets previously 43 00:02:22,300 --> 00:02:24,950 Tim: go through something similar, I was just coming out of 44 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:27,840 Tim: grade 12. So I was still around but definitely not 45 00:02:28,250 --> 00:02:30,550 Tim: in the role that I am now. So this has 46 00:02:30,550 --> 00:02:34,460 Tim: been an unprecedented level of value growth for this generation. 47 00:02:34,460 --> 00:02:36,090 Tim: It's probably a good way to describe it. 48 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:39,410 Sean: Sales volumes, let's talk about that highest level in almost 49 00:02:39,540 --> 00:02:44,669 Sean: 18 years, that's 614,000 properties went up for sale across 50 00:02:44,669 --> 00:02:46,980 Sean: the 12 months. Why would the volume so high this 51 00:02:46,980 --> 00:02:47,460 Sean: year, do you think? 52 00:02:47,820 --> 00:02:50,120 Tim: There's a bunch of reasons and part of it's the 53 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:55,370 Tim: context of history where coming into the middle of 2019, 54 00:02:56,030 --> 00:02:58,929 Tim: we're seeing a turnover rate across Australia. There was only 55 00:02:58,930 --> 00:03:01,889 Tim: about three and a half percent, meaning we're only seeing 56 00:03:01,889 --> 00:03:04,280 Tim: about three and a half percent of home selling each 57 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:07,130 Tim: year which was a record low. So there's been a lot 58 00:03:07,130 --> 00:03:11,530 Tim: of pent up demand across Australia's housing markets, which started to 59 00:03:11,530 --> 00:03:15,139 Tim: get unlocked way before the pandemic. Back in the middle 60 00:03:15,139 --> 00:03:19,800 Tim: of 2019, just after the federal election, we saw APRA 61 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,720 Tim: loosening up their credit rules. That's when they actually relaxed 62 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:26,350 Tim: their serviceability buffer. We saw interest rates coming down. A 63 00:03:26,350 --> 00:03:28,560 Tim: lot of that pent up demand started to flow into 64 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:32,280 Tim: the housing market and it was temporarily interrupted in early 65 00:03:32,290 --> 00:03:35,840 Tim: 2020 as the pandemic first became a thing. But then 66 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:39,210 Tim: quite quickly, as we saw rates coming down further, as 67 00:03:39,210 --> 00:03:42,580 Tim: we saw a lot of fiscal support, as we saw 68 00:03:42,580 --> 00:03:45,930 Tim: household saving a lot more, which made it easier for 69 00:03:45,930 --> 00:03:50,470 Tim: them to access credit, we saw turnover rates got back 70 00:03:50,470 --> 00:03:53,420 Tim: to above average levels. So typical average over the past 71 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:56,090 Tim: 10 years is about a five and a half percent 72 00:03:56,090 --> 00:03:58,800 Tim: turnover rate. And over the past 12 months we saw 73 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:01,920 Tim: that get up to and six percent or so. So definitely 74 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:04,500 Tim: not shooting the lights out, even though we haven't seen 75 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:09,210 Tim: transactional activity this high for nearly 20 years, we actually 76 00:04:09,210 --> 00:04:11,580 Tim: saw the number of home sales back in say, the 77 00:04:11,580 --> 00:04:13,840 Tim: early two thousands a bit higher than what they are 78 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:16,680 Tim: now. Despite the fact that there was more than a 79 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:20,640 Tim: million fewer homes in Australia. So even though we have 80 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:24,650 Tim: seen this real surge in housing sales, it is still 81 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:29,140 Tim: remarkably quite a relatively low level of transaction activity. Considering 82 00:04:29,140 --> 00:04:31,300 Tim: the pace of capital gains we've seen, which I think 83 00:04:31,830 --> 00:04:35,630 Tim: simply reflects affordability constraints in the marketplace that have been 84 00:04:36,020 --> 00:04:38,900 Tim: building up for several decades across the market. 85 00:04:39,270 --> 00:04:41,789 Sean: Okay. In the last couple of months, the market seems 86 00:04:41,790 --> 00:04:44,339 Sean: to be cooling certainly in Sydney and Melbourne. And I 87 00:04:44,339 --> 00:04:46,460 Sean: mean, it's not going backwards, of course it's just the pace 88 00:04:46,460 --> 00:04:51,880 Sean: of increases is lower. Whereas, Brisbane and Adelaide Canberra, I 89 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:55,190 Sean: think as well seem to be doing pretty well still 90 00:04:55,190 --> 00:04:58,320 Sean: Hobart's had a great year. What is it that drives 91 00:04:58,410 --> 00:05:01,040 Sean: the difference between cities, is this too stupid a question 92 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:02,860 Sean: to who ask, Tim? I fear it might be but I'm 93 00:05:02,860 --> 00:05:06,260 Sean: going to ask anyway. So why is Sydney and Melbourne slowing and 94 00:05:06,260 --> 00:05:09,339 Sean: why are some of those other capital cities, Brisbane and Adelaide 95 00:05:09,339 --> 00:05:10,390 Sean: doing so well still? 96 00:05:10,690 --> 00:05:14,210 Tim: It's become a real two speed market, hasn't it? For 97 00:05:14,210 --> 00:05:17,850 Tim: a while there, we're seeing every region around the country 98 00:05:17,850 --> 00:05:22,290 Tim: was absolutely rocketing ahead in value growth. Sydney was recording 99 00:05:22,290 --> 00:05:26,050 Tim: a monthly growth rate of 3. 7% back in March and 100 00:05:26,050 --> 00:05:28,500 Tim: that's now reduced down to 0. 9%, at least at 101 00:05:28,500 --> 00:05:31,690 Tim: the end of November. Melbourne moved through a recent peak 102 00:05:31,690 --> 00:05:34,570 Tim: rate of growth of 2. 4% in March of this year. 103 00:05:34,570 --> 00:05:37,900 Tim: It's now back to 0. 6%. Whereas as you say, 104 00:05:37,900 --> 00:05:42,320 Tim: Brisbane and Adelaide are both at cyclical highs. We're seeing 105 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:46,000 Tim: Brisbane housing values rising at nearly 3% month on month. Adelaide's 106 00:05:46,010 --> 00:05:48,200 Tim: about two and a half percent. We haven't seen growth 107 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:51,140 Tim: rates through this cycle so far that high in either 108 00:05:51,140 --> 00:05:53,810 Tim: of those cities, Canberra also, as I say, has been quite 109 00:05:53,810 --> 00:05:57,430 Tim: resilient, so as Hobart. Both recording growth of more than 110 00:05:57,870 --> 00:05:59,839 Tim: 1% month on month at the moment. So I think 111 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:02,270 Tim: the reason we're seeing this slow down comes back to 112 00:06:02,270 --> 00:06:05,870 Tim: two things. One is affordability and we know that in 113 00:06:05,870 --> 00:06:09,239 Tim: markets like Sydney, where the dwelling value to income ratio 114 00:06:09,779 --> 00:06:13,340 Tim: in Sydney is up around 10 time or it's 10.1 115 00:06:13,430 --> 00:06:16,510 Tim: now. Meaning the typical household is spending about 10. 1 116 00:06:16,510 --> 00:06:20,070 Tim: times the gross annual household income to purchase the medium 117 00:06:20,070 --> 00:06:24,580 Tim: price dwelling. So affordability is clearly slowing the marketplace down 118 00:06:24,630 --> 00:06:27,810 Tim: in the very expensive markets. Sydney is the most obvious, 119 00:06:27,810 --> 00:06:31,020 Tim: Melbourne as well but then you've also got the fact 120 00:06:31,020 --> 00:06:33,870 Tim: that in both of those cities, Sydney and Melbourne, we've 121 00:06:33,870 --> 00:06:37,420 Tim: also seen a much more substantial surge in listing numbers 122 00:06:37,420 --> 00:06:39,910 Tim: coming on the market. Partly due to a lot of 123 00:06:39,910 --> 00:06:43,630 Tim: the pent up supply that's built up through lockdowns but 124 00:06:43,630 --> 00:06:45,870 Tim: also I think we're seeing a lot more vendors taking 125 00:06:45,870 --> 00:06:48,950 Tim: advantage of the very strong selling conditions and putting their 126 00:06:48,950 --> 00:06:51,440 Tim: property up for sale. Which means a lot of that 127 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:55,190 Tim: urgency that's been driving the market, has simply dissipated in 128 00:06:55,190 --> 00:06:58,560 Tim: its two larger cities. Great news for buyers because they're 129 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:00,770 Tim: finally getting a little bit of leverage back in those 130 00:07:00,770 --> 00:07:01,870 Tim: very hot markets. 131 00:07:02,270 --> 00:07:03,930 Sean: Stay with me, Tim, we'll be back in a minute. 132 00:07:08,740 --> 00:07:11,810 Sean: I'm talking to Tim Lawless, Research Director for Asia Pacific 133 00:07:12,020 --> 00:07:14,990 Sean: at CoreLogic. Tim, your best of the best report has 134 00:07:14,990 --> 00:07:17,350 Sean: been released today. Looks at some of the best property 135 00:07:17,350 --> 00:07:22,110 Sean: performers in last year. What surprised me somewhat was the 136 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:25,580 Sean: strong performance at the very top in the list of units. 137 00:07:25,660 --> 00:07:29,440 Sean: Because I just had this thought that units hadn't done 138 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,100 Sean: anywhere near as well but the list of the top 10 139 00:07:32,100 --> 00:07:34,990 Sean: most expensive property sales is dominated by units. 140 00:07:35,420 --> 00:07:37,720 Tim: Yeah, it's surprising isn't it? Because we know that the 141 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:41,990 Tim: unit market has generally, underperformed quite substantially compared to the 142 00:07:41,990 --> 00:07:45,290 Tim: house market. In fact, that the annual growth rate nationally 143 00:07:45,290 --> 00:07:48,210 Tim: is less than half of what it is for houses. 144 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:51,420 Tim: So it is interesting to say the top 10 sales 145 00:07:51,420 --> 00:07:55,240 Tim: across the country, the first four of them are units. 146 00:07:55,620 --> 00:07:58,800 Tim: They're all in Sydney, the most expensive sale was that 147 00:07:58,810 --> 00:08:02,590 Tim: the $ 60 million sale of 163 Castle Ray Street, which 148 00:08:02,590 --> 00:08:06,870 Tim: is your full top floor penthouse with quite extreme fixtures 149 00:08:06,870 --> 00:08:09,010 Tim: and fittings is probably a polite way to describe it. 150 00:08:09,470 --> 00:08:11,960 Tim: But you've also got all the Barangaroo sales flowing through 151 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:15,260 Tim: as well. So it looks like the top four sales 152 00:08:15,260 --> 00:08:18,910 Tim: where everything we're selling over $ 40 million, by the way. 153 00:08:18,910 --> 00:08:21,670 Tim: And each of those other top four sales is really 154 00:08:21,670 --> 00:08:25,610 Tim: the result of an influx of very high end, newly 155 00:08:25,610 --> 00:08:28,700 Tim: built stock or refurbished stock. As well as the fact 156 00:08:28,700 --> 00:08:32,589 Tim: that we are seeing this ongoing trends towards the demographic 157 00:08:32,590 --> 00:08:36,120 Tim: trend of a lot of downsizes empty nesters, cashed up 158 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:39,540 Tim: baby boomers, however, you want to describe them are driving 159 00:08:39,540 --> 00:08:43,709 Tim: this demand for boutique, unique high end apartments and that's 160 00:08:43,710 --> 00:08:46,880 Tim: really shining through in these top sales over the year. 161 00:08:47,490 --> 00:08:50,199 Tim: We're still seeing 6 of the top 10 are houses 162 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:53,929 Tim: or at least town homes. Most of them again, around 163 00:08:53,929 --> 00:08:57,059 Tim: your Blue- chip suburbs of Sydney and Melbourne like Hawthorne 164 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:00,520 Tim: and in Victoria or Point Piper in Sydney. 165 00:09:00,530 --> 00:09:05,960 Sean: Okay. We can dream. Regional areas, they've performed particularly well. 166 00:09:06,270 --> 00:09:08,839 Sean: What's been the main driver across the regions this year, 167 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:09,280 Sean: do you think? 168 00:09:10,179 --> 00:09:13,530 Tim: The regional markets across Australia have shown a much stronger 169 00:09:13,530 --> 00:09:15,790 Tim: result and a much resilient result as well. We're not 170 00:09:15,790 --> 00:09:19,870 Tim: really seeing the same slowing trend across regional markets as 171 00:09:19,870 --> 00:09:22,880 Tim: we are across some of the major capital cities. And I think 172 00:09:23,059 --> 00:09:24,720 Tim: we can put this growth down to a couple of 173 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:27,630 Tim: factors. One being just the demographic shift that we've been 174 00:09:27,630 --> 00:09:30,990 Tim: seeing a lot about. There's been a real shift in 175 00:09:30,990 --> 00:09:34,820 Tim: demographic trends away from the capital cities towards the regional 176 00:09:34,820 --> 00:09:37,760 Tim: markets. As more people look to base themselves in regional 177 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:40,920 Tim: Australia and fewer people from regional Australia moving back to 178 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:44,300 Tim: the capital city. So those two trends have really amplified 179 00:09:44,300 --> 00:09:47,949 Tim: the demand for housing across regional Australia. And a big 180 00:09:47,950 --> 00:09:50,880 Tim: part of that demand increase, I think is simply being 181 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:53,840 Tim: that a lot more people can work flexibly now. They 182 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:57,160 Tim: can actually base themselves in a regional market and still 183 00:09:57,250 --> 00:10:00,890 Tim: earn, say Sydney or Melbourne wages. We are seeing a 184 00:10:00,890 --> 00:10:04,270 Tim: lot more companies now formalizing what you might describe as 185 00:10:04,270 --> 00:10:07,540 Tim: their hybrid working policies, where they are expected to be 186 00:10:07,540 --> 00:10:09,540 Tim: back in the office for a few days a week. 187 00:10:09,870 --> 00:10:11,750 Tim: But they could also work remotely a few days a 188 00:10:11,750 --> 00:10:14,620 Tim: week as well. So I think for that reason, we 189 00:10:14,620 --> 00:10:17,340 Tim: are seeing the strong longest trends seem to be in 190 00:10:17,340 --> 00:10:21,569 Tim: those markets that are both commutable as well as livable. 191 00:10:22,140 --> 00:10:25,190 Tim: And sometimes you can include affordable in that basket as 192 00:10:25,190 --> 00:10:27,470 Tim: well. (crosstalk) Although the regional markets are becoming less and 193 00:10:27,470 --> 00:10:30,920 Tim: less affordable. Simply because the growth rates have been so 194 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:32,650 Tim: high compared to the capital cities. 195 00:10:33,050 --> 00:10:35,220 Sean: Okay. This is the other one I wanted to mention the popularity 196 00:10:35,220 --> 00:10:38,740 Sean: of the lifestyle markets, the Mornington Peninsula in Victoria, Sydney's 197 00:10:38,740 --> 00:10:42,099 Sean: Northern beaches, the Golden Sunshine Coast in Queensland. Do you 198 00:10:42,100 --> 00:10:44,600 Sean: think their popularity will continue into 2022? 199 00:10:45,210 --> 00:10:47,300 Tim: I think they will. And for those reasons I just 200 00:10:47,300 --> 00:10:50,030 Tim: mentioned. They're commutable, so you can actually commute back into 201 00:10:50,030 --> 00:10:53,040 Tim: the major capitals from those markets. They offer up a 202 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:56,240 Tim: lifestyle advantage from the coastal location. You can throw the 203 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:58,400 Tim: Southern Highlands, for example, in there as well as not 204 00:10:58,900 --> 00:11:01,190 Tim: a coastal market but more of a leafy or a 205 00:11:01,190 --> 00:11:04,100 Tim: tree change market. A lot of the hinterland areas are 206 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,630 Tim: similar but I think again, going back to affordability, which seemed 207 00:11:07,850 --> 00:11:10,160 Tim: to be in the underlying theme across a lot of 208 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:13,210 Tim: these trends at the moment. These markets are becoming very 209 00:11:13,210 --> 00:11:15,900 Tim: expensive and they're becoming quite exclusive. So I wouldn't be 210 00:11:15,900 --> 00:11:19,679 Tim: surprised if we do see a broader trend where the 211 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:22,390 Tim: next best market start to show a very strong growth 212 00:11:22,390 --> 00:11:25,309 Tim: rate as well. So rather than Northern beaches in Sydney, 213 00:11:25,309 --> 00:11:27,870 Tim: it might be the central coast. We're getting down into 214 00:11:27,870 --> 00:11:31,030 Tim: Sutherland in Melbourne. It might extend from the Mornington Peninsula 215 00:11:31,860 --> 00:11:34,960 Tim: out towards the Bass Coast or Southern Gippsland area or 216 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:37,730 Tim: in Southeast Queensland, from the Sunshine Coast up towards in 217 00:11:38,050 --> 00:11:42,010 Tim: Wide Bay. Those markets aren't quite as commutable. So it'll 218 00:11:42,010 --> 00:11:45,610 Tim: be interesting to see how popular they become simply driven 219 00:11:45,610 --> 00:11:46,670 Tim: by their price points. 220 00:11:47,210 --> 00:11:51,010 Sean: Okay. So the ultimate question, what do you think the market will do next year? 221 00:11:51,490 --> 00:11:54,580 Tim: Well, I think we're already seeing some pretty good hints 222 00:11:54,780 --> 00:11:56,660 Tim: on where the market might end up next year. The 223 00:11:56,660 --> 00:12:00,220 Tim: growth rates across the most of the capital cities are slowing 224 00:12:00,220 --> 00:12:03,990 Tim: down, particularly in that the largest capitals. We're already seeing 225 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:07,900 Tim: fixed interest rates are moving higher. We're seeing housing affordability, 226 00:12:07,900 --> 00:12:11,130 Tim: slowing the marketplace and a lot of speculation that we 227 00:12:11,130 --> 00:12:13,550 Tim: might start to see the cash rates lifting earlier than 228 00:12:13,550 --> 00:12:16,950 Tim: what the RBA has been forecasting as well. So chances 229 00:12:16,950 --> 00:12:19,679 Tim: are next year. The growth rate for housing will be 230 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:23,150 Tim: remarkably lower than what it was this year. I think 231 00:12:23,150 --> 00:12:25,480 Tim: we'll end this year, we'll see an annual growth rate 232 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:29,020 Tim: or a calendar year growth rate nationally, probably up around 233 00:12:29,020 --> 00:12:32,699 Tim: the 25% mark. Next year, I wouldn't be surprised if 234 00:12:32,700 --> 00:12:37,370 Tim: we Australian housing values rising, maybe somewhere between 5% and 7%. 235 00:12:37,370 --> 00:12:40,240 Tim: So quite a remarkable slowdown from where we've been this 236 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:42,070 Tim: year but there is going to be a lot more 237 00:12:42,070 --> 00:12:45,310 Tim: diversity, I think. We're already seeing that non numbers, that 238 00:12:45,460 --> 00:12:49,160 Tim: markets that are affordable as what they say, have those commutable 239 00:12:49,210 --> 00:12:51,740 Tim: and livable options as well. I think, we'll become much 240 00:12:51,740 --> 00:12:53,790 Tim: more popular than what they had been in the past. 241 00:12:54,230 --> 00:12:57,720 Tim: And maybe seeing those affordable markets like Brisbane and Adelaide 242 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:01,700 Tim: and Perth outperforming the major capital cities like Sydney and 243 00:13:01,700 --> 00:13:04,010 Tim: Melbourne, which is something we haven't seen for quite some 244 00:13:04,010 --> 00:13:05,500 Tim: time through previous cycles. 245 00:13:05,990 --> 00:13:07,760 Sean: Tim, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 246 00:13:07,990 --> 00:13:09,220 Tim: Always a pleasure. Thank you. 247 00:13:09,429 --> 00:13:12,130 Sean: That was Tim Lawless, Research Director for Asia Pacific at 248 00:13:12,420 --> 00:13:14,949 Sean: CoreLogic. This is a Fear and Greed Daily Interview. Join 249 00:13:14,950 --> 00:13:17,280 Sean: me every morning for the full Fear and Greed podcast 250 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:19,530 Sean: with all the business news you need to know. I'm 251 00:13:19,530 --> 00:13:21,010 Sean: Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.