1 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey. 2 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: It's Friday May twenty four. It's been two years since 3 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: labor One government and Anthony Albanezi is coming for Peter Dutton. 4 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: The PM will launch a ferocious political attack on the 5 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:24,919 Speaker 1: opposition leader. In a speech marking the election anniversary today, 6 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 1: he says Dutton's a carbon copy of his predecessor, Scott Morrison, 7 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:33,879 Speaker 1: and he'll urge voters to reject fear and division stoked 8 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: by the Coalition in the run up to the election. 9 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 1: That story is live right now at the Australian dot 10 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:46,160 Speaker 1: Com dot a U. Six years after the Teacher's Pet 11 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: made waves around the world, The Australian's national Chief correspondent, 12 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:53,600 Speaker 1: Headley Thomas is back with a brand new podcast investigation. 13 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 1: This time, Headley's delving into the cold case of Bronwyn Winfield, 14 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 1: a young mum who disappeared from an idyllic surftown on 15 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 1: the New South Wales North Coast more than three decades ago. 16 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 1: In today's episode, Headley explains how this story found him 17 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 1: and if he thinks it can be solved. In twenty eighteen, 18 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:36,320 Speaker 1: Australian journalism blew up with a huge story told in 19 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: a groupping new way, an investigative podcast by The Australian's 20 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 1: National Chief correspondent Headley Thomas. The Teacher's Pet has had 21 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: more than eighty million downloads around the world and it 22 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: resulted in the arrest, charge and murder conviction of its subject, 23 00:01:55,280 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 1: Christopher Michael Dawson. He is now appealing. What almost no 24 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 1: one knows is that at that time another big story 25 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:09,800 Speaker 1: was brewing in the background. Family members and friends of 26 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 1: another missing woman, Bronwyn Winfield, was struck by the similarities 27 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: between her case and that of Lynette Simms, whose disappearance 28 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: Headley investigated in The Teacher's Pet. In those early days, 29 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 1: years before Lynn's husband Chris Dawson would be brought to justice, 30 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: Bromwin's loved ones reached out to Hedley, urging him to 31 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 1: look into her nineteen ninety one disappearance from Lennox Head 32 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 1: in the New South Wales Northern Rivers region, but Bromwin's 33 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 1: name was already on Headley's radar. 34 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 2: It was late twenty seventeen Claire I was interviewing the 35 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 2: former Deputy State Coroner for New South Wales Karl Milavanovitch 36 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 2: about the case of Chris Dawson and the allegations that 37 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 2: he had murdered his wife Lynn all those years ago 38 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty two, and while I was talking to Karl, 39 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 2: he expressed his grave concerns about a number of cases 40 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 2: involving missing women, women who had suddenly disappeared. They had 41 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 2: ties to the community, they had small children. Lynn was 42 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 2: one of those, and he mentioned the case of bromwyn Winfield. 43 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 2: He told me that he'd run an inquest into that 44 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 2: case in two thousand and two and he'd made a 45 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:26,959 Speaker 2: recommendation about it. 46 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 1: Here's the moment Hedley first heard bromwyn Winfield's name from 47 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: Karl Milvanovitch. 48 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 3: I did an inquest of a lady called bromwyn Winfield, 49 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 3: and she had two kids as well, and she went 50 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 3: to bed one night and she disappeared next day. And 51 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 3: there was some suggestion from a neighbor that. 52 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 2: And I didn't have time then to deal with it, 53 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 2: but I wanted to revisit it at some point, and 54 00:03:57,800 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 2: I guess for the last six and a half years, 55 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 2: I've been collecting bits and pieces and talking to people 56 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 2: connected to the case, reaching out to Bromwin's family. What 57 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 2: also happened was that as the episodes of The Teacher's 58 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 2: Pet began unfolding from May twenty eighteen, people who were 59 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:20,599 Speaker 2: listening they were reminded of something that had just eaten 60 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 2: away at them for some time, that there hadn't been 61 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 2: a proper resolution of Bromwin's disappearance, the deeply suspicious circumstances 62 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:31,160 Speaker 2: surrounding it, and they urged me to get involved in it. 63 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 1: Today, all the information and evidence heavily collected over the 64 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 1: years has made it out of the folder he created 65 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:43,479 Speaker 1: on that day in twenty seventeen and into a new 66 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:48,919 Speaker 1: podcast investigation for The Australian. It's called Bronwyn and it 67 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 1: is hauntingly similar to the disappearance of Lynn Dawson. Loving 68 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 1: young moms, sudden disappearances families left in the grief and 69 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:01,679 Speaker 1: shock of ambiguous loss. 70 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 2: Sadly, it's the case that across Australia police forces through 71 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 2: the eighties and nineties, and no doubt earlier, were unwilling 72 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 2: to look at foul play as the probable reason for 73 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 2: the sudden disappearances of loving, dedicated young mums, particularly those 74 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 2: going through a marital breakdown. So when they disappeared, the 75 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 2: paperwork was just filed in the bottom drawer marked missing person, 76 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:35,360 Speaker 2: not given a high priority as a possible homicide. And 77 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 2: this is what Karl Milavanovitch identified in a number of 78 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 2: these missing women cases that he dealt with as a 79 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:45,839 Speaker 2: senior coroner before his retirement. When he flagged that to 80 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 2: me when I met him at his home in late 81 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 2: twenty seventeen, it was a bit of a light bulb 82 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 2: moment because you think, gosh, how many other cases are there. 83 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:59,479 Speaker 2: This was a systemic problem. It's no longer the case today. 84 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 2: If a young mum like Bromwin suddenly disappeared at the 85 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 2: same time as she's newly separated from her husband, there 86 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 2: would almost certainly be a very committed police investigation looking 87 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:15,919 Speaker 2: at all of the unusual circumstances and making sure that 88 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:21,719 Speaker 2: witnesses were soon interviewed. But unbelievably, for the first five 89 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:25,919 Speaker 2: years after Bromwin's disappearance, the police did not even take 90 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:29,480 Speaker 2: a statement from anybody. They spoke to, just a couple 91 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:32,679 Speaker 2: of neighbors. They didn't bring anyone down to the police 92 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 2: station to take a formal statement. They didn't properly search 93 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:40,839 Speaker 2: the house or the car. It's hard to believe how 94 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:43,039 Speaker 2: poor the original investigation was. 95 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:51,599 Speaker 1: Bromwyn Winfield was just thirty one years old when she 96 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:55,480 Speaker 1: disappeared from the home built by her husband John. 97 00:06:56,680 --> 00:07:00,919 Speaker 2: Bronwyn was to everybody who knew her, an incredible, caring 98 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:07,039 Speaker 2: and devoted young mum. She had two daughters. They were Lauren, 99 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 2: who was five, and Crystal ten. Bromwam was close to 100 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 2: her brother, her cousins. She'd had a difficult childhood because 101 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 2: her own mother, when Bromwin was two, had postnatal depression 102 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 2: and she disappeared from her own young children. And very sadly, 103 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 2: when Bromwin herself disappeared some twenty nine years after her 104 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 2: own mother had disappeared, there was for the police a link. 105 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 2: They thought, well, is she doing what her own mother 106 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 2: had done. The circumstances were very, very different. Bromwyn was 107 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 2: of very sound mind. She had plans, She was making plans, 108 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 2: She had appointments the next day. The kids were going 109 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 2: back to school on the Monday. 110 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: John was Bromwin's second husband and the relationship had been 111 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:01,239 Speaker 1: strong for some time. 112 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 2: She wanted to leave her husband John, and indeed she did. 113 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 2: She moved into a townhouse that she couldn't really afford, 114 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 2: but she knew she had to get away. Only a 115 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 2: short drive from the family home, the home that John 116 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 2: had built. He's a very skilled bricklayer. He could build 117 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 2: houses from scratch and this house was his pride and joy. 118 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:29,679 Speaker 2: She disappeared on the Sunday evening. She had very little money, 119 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 2: She didn't have means to support herself, but she and 120 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 2: her husband were going to be having an argument over 121 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 2: who got the spoils from the marriage. How would that 122 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:42,960 Speaker 2: property settlement unfold? And on the evening she disappeared. Her 123 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:46,959 Speaker 2: husband had left Sydney to fly back. He'd been working 124 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 2: in Sydney building a house, and he became aware that 125 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 2: Bromwin had moved from the rented townhouse with the girls 126 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 2: back into the family home, the home that she had 127 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 2: had to leave when they said. She was there for 128 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 2: two nights, and then on the Sunday, John arrived. And 129 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:09,559 Speaker 2: that's the last time anybody ever saw or heard from Bromwin. 130 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:15,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, she tucked to her children into bed that night. Headley, 131 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:19,439 Speaker 1: how do we know that? Were the children interviewed by police. 132 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 2: Bromman's eldest daughter did talk to police several years later, 133 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:27,439 Speaker 2: but The children were also in touch with their auntie 134 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 2: and uncle. They spoke to their neighbors and friends, and 135 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:35,080 Speaker 2: it's not disputed by John that the children were in 136 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 2: bed that Sunday night. In fact, John readily acknowledges that 137 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 2: he was at the house too, and according to some accounts, 138 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 2: he acknowledged that he actually had a disagreement with Bromwin 139 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 2: on the Sunday night. But his story is that she 140 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 2: got into a car after she had made one or 141 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 2: two phone calls from the bedroom, a car turned up. 142 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:58,960 Speaker 2: He doesn't know what sort of car it was, he said. 143 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 2: He couldn't see the driver, doesn't know who was driving it. 144 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 2: She got into that vehicle and left. Now, it was 145 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 2: a very unusual thing for her to do, to go 146 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 2: away for a break. She hadn't told her friend she 147 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 2: was going away for any sort of break. She left 148 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 2: behind pretty much everything, and she had very little in 149 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 2: the way of money. That's why her family was very 150 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:29,320 Speaker 2: concerned immediately. But local police did a very poor job 151 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 2: in the early stages. They really just treated ron Win 152 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:36,320 Speaker 2: as if she was doing what her mother had done, 153 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 2: that she was a runaway mom, abandoning her family, her 154 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 2: husband and her kids. Crystal has described having heard raised 155 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 2: voices her parents are arguing, and then she must have 156 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 2: fallen asleep because she was woken up along with Lauren 157 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 2: late at night, probably around ten thirty pm, maybe a 158 00:10:55,800 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 2: little bit earlier. John left the house with his daughters 159 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 2: and drove through the night to Sydney, arriving the next morning. 160 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 2: The children were due at school on the Monday, was 161 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 2: in school holidays and they ended up staying in Sydney 162 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 2: for ten or eleven days. And then John, at the 163 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 2: urging of Bromwan's brother, drove back up to Lennox and 164 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 2: did report Bromwyn missing to police. 165 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 1: Coming up why it's taken so long for Bromwyn Winfield's 166 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 1: case to be taken seriously. The podcast Bromwyn is available 167 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:41,199 Speaker 1: now at bronwynpodcast dot com. That's bro Nwyn podcast dot com. 168 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 1: Subscribers to The Australian are the first to hear episodes 169 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: of Headly Thomas's brand new investigative podcast series. Plus they 170 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:51,079 Speaker 1: get breaking news alerts direct to their phones. All are 171 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: lively commentary and access to special events. Check us out 172 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:57,680 Speaker 1: at The Australian dot com dot au and we'll be 173 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 1: back after this break. There were eleven days between Bronwyn 174 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: Winfield was last seen and the time her husband, John 175 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 1: reported her missing to police. On his account, Bronwyn had 176 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 1: said she was going away for a few days to 177 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 1: take some time for herself. So why the delay? 178 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 2: I think that's a very good question, Claire. And as 179 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:42,560 Speaker 2: best I can understand from talking to Bromwin's family and friends, 180 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 2: they were waiting for John to make that move, and 181 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 2: they were urging him to do so for some time. Andy, 182 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 2: who is Broman's brother, He had told John that if 183 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 2: he didn't report Bromwin missing to the police, Andy would. 184 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:02,080 Speaker 2: A woman called Deb Paul, who was Broman's very good 185 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 2: friend and nearest neighbor. She told me that she said 186 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 2: was the same effect. She was very very concerned about 187 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 2: Bromwin and what had happened. She knew how devoted Bromin 188 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 2: was as a mum, the plans that Bromwyn had made. 189 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:21,080 Speaker 2: She was happy to be back in her house. She 190 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 2: had flagged no plan or intention to leave the house, 191 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 2: and Deb couldn't see when Deb went through the house 192 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 2: that Broman had actually taken anything with her except for 193 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 2: her handbag, which wasn't there. 194 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 1: In two thousand and two, the former Deputy State Coroner 195 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 1: Karl Milvanovitch, who you heard about at the top of 196 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:47,079 Speaker 1: his episode, found Bromwyn Winfield was dead. He recommended to 197 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 1: the new South Wales Director of Public Prosecutions that John 198 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 1: Winfield be charged with her murder. Nicholas Cowdery, who was 199 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:57,720 Speaker 1: the DPP, then didn't pursue it. He said there was 200 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:01,200 Speaker 1: no evidence John had killed Bronwyn or played any role 201 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:06,960 Speaker 1: in her death. It's a decision that's baffled Bronwin's loved 202 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 1: ones for decades. This is a feature of the justice 203 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:15,560 Speaker 1: system that I think some people might not know so 204 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 1: much about. Can you explain Headley, how it can be 205 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: that a coroner can make a recommendation about a case 206 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 1: like this that doesn't turn into a prosecution. 207 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 2: I think that there's such a mismatch between what happens 208 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 2: when a coroner runs an inquest involving sometimes many days, 209 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 2: sometimes a week of public hearings with witnesses appearing and 210 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 2: giving evidence under oath, and then the coroner, who's often 211 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 2: an experienced senior magistrate, makes certain findings and recommendations, and 212 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 2: then there's this behind closed door paperwork review by unknown 213 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 2: lawyers in the office of the Director of Public Prosecution, 214 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 2: They review the recommendation, and presumably they go through the evidence. 215 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 2: Often the police brief is very extensive. But how much 216 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 2: of the evidence do they go through? Do they read 217 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 2: all the transcripts and witness statements. Are they at a 218 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 2: sufficiently senior level to really appreciate what the senior coroner 219 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 2: has appreciated. We don't know, because that process is very opaque. 220 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 1: You reached out to John Winfield. What did he say? 221 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 2: John Winfield got back to me and he acknowledged the 222 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 2: letter that I had written to him seeking his side 223 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 2: of the story. He said that he had previously answered 224 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 2: something like four hundred and fifteen questions from a homicide 225 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 2: squad detective and he stood by all the answers he 226 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 2: gave to those, and we'll unpack those in several episodes 227 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 2: of the podcast series. He said also, and I think 228 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 2: this is very interesting because it's a reflection of some 229 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 2: of the things that have been said over the years 230 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 2: by him about Bromwin that her side of the family 231 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 2: has a long generational history of mental illness on the 232 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 2: male and female side. That's how he put it. Now, 233 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 2: I've talked to Bromwyn's good friends in Lennox. Head I've 234 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 2: talked to family members. The police have obviously talked to 235 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 2: many people because when the police did do a very 236 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 2: thorough investigation starting in nineteen ninety eight, many dozens of 237 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 2: statements were taken by Detective Sergeant Glenn Taylor, and in 238 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 2: none of those interviews or statements does anyone say Bromwin 239 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 2: was showing signs of mental illness. It just doesn't register. 240 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 2: Bromwen was a very capable, intelligent, motivated young mum. It 241 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 2: seems that having separated from John, she knew what she 242 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 2: wanted to do. She just wanted to start again with 243 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 2: her two girls, but without John, and the next stage 244 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 2: in that process was working out what she would walk 245 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 2: away with, what portion of the house and all the 246 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 2: assets that they had jointly strive to achieve together she 247 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 2: would be able to have to start again. 248 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 1: What's your instinct, Headley, Is this case solvable? 249 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:14,639 Speaker 2: Well? I think all these cases are potentially solvable. It 250 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:19,400 Speaker 2: would only take some fresh new information that is really 251 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:24,359 Speaker 2: probative that somebody has not disclosed, has for whatever reason, 252 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 2: decided to keep to themselves for many years. If somebody 253 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 2: comes forward with that to the police directly, to me, 254 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 2: then if it's corroborated and checked out, that can make 255 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:39,160 Speaker 2: a difference. It could show that somebody else, somebody other 256 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:42,879 Speaker 2: than John Winfield, was responsible. For example, I mean, we 257 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:46,119 Speaker 2: don't know what happened on that Sunday night. John's story 258 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:48,639 Speaker 2: is she got into a car driven by a stranger 259 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:52,959 Speaker 2: and that's that. Who knows. Maybe somebody has some information 260 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 2: about that, Maybe they have information about something else that 261 00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:59,919 Speaker 2: John hasn't told us, But of course they can be solved. 262 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 2: Bromwyn disappeared nine years after Lynn disappeared. People believed that 263 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 2: Linn's case could never be solved, and it was. 264 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:15,360 Speaker 1: There is an important difference in the stories of lin 265 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 1: Sim's and Bromwyn Winfield. John Winfield has never been charged, 266 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 1: and there's no suggestion that he's anything like Chris Dawson. 267 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 1: But the similarities between Lynn and Bromwyn are inescapable, loving, 268 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:32,919 Speaker 1: protective mothers whose children were robbed of their right to 269 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:35,479 Speaker 1: a safe, secure maternal bond. 270 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 2: I think we need to be very careful to not 271 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 2: conflate them or see them as being cut from the 272 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:48,879 Speaker 2: same cloth. John Winfield has always emphatically denied any involvement 273 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:53,400 Speaker 2: in foul play. He certainly has never been charged with anything. 274 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:57,680 Speaker 2: The coroner recommended to the then DPP Nicholas Cowdery, that 275 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:03,399 Speaker 2: he should be charged and considered for prosecution over Bromwin's 276 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 2: suspected murder, but in the DPP's assessment back in two 277 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 2: thousand and three there was insufficient evidence. Of course, there's nobody, 278 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 2: and some might argue that Bronwin has been living a 279 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:23,879 Speaker 2: life somehow incognito, having never been seen. In my opinion, 280 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 2: that is just completely implausible. Bromwin's almost certainly dead. What 281 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:33,480 Speaker 2: we don't know is when she died and how she died. 282 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:38,720 Speaker 2: But the idea that a very committed mum of thirty 283 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:42,120 Speaker 2: one years old could spend the next thirty one years 284 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:47,639 Speaker 2: somehow eking out a life, remaining unnoticed, being able to 285 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 2: support herself, and never contact two little girls with whom 286 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 2: she had a very beautiful and loving relationship is just 287 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 2: ridiculous in my view. 288 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:21,359 Speaker 1: Headly Thomas is The Australian's national Chief correspondent and the 289 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:26,159 Speaker 1: creator of our new investigative podcast series Bronwyn. Subscribers to 290 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 1: The Australian are the first to hear it. You can 291 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:31,680 Speaker 1: register to listen to the first two episodes now at 292 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:36,879 Speaker 1: Bronwyn Podcast dot com. We've also got exclusive stories, maps, timelines, 293 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:41,920 Speaker 1: graphics and video and for all Australia's best journalism twenty 294 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:45,439 Speaker 1: four to seven go to the Australian dot com dot au. 295 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us on the front this week. Our 296 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 1: team is Kristin Amiot, Leat Sammaglu, Josh Burton, Jasper Leigue, 297 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:55,639 Speaker 1: Tiffany Dimac, Matthew Condon and me Claire Harvey.