WEBVTT - Catching Eurydice Dixon’s murderer: Andrew Stamper Pt.2 0:00:01.880 --> 0:00:04.880 The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:08.039 Detective see aside of life. The average person is never 0:00:08.119 --> 0:00:11.080 exposed her I spent thirty four years as a cop. 0:00:11.560 --> 0:00:14.040 For twenty five of those years I was catching killers. 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:16.200 That's what I did for a living. I was a 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:20.560 homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead, 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:23.120 I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated. 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:26.400 The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:28.760 from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:31.440 and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:34.640 of the content and language might be confronting. That's because 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:37.640 no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged. 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:40.400 Join me now as I take you into this world. 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:49.440 In Part two of I Catch Killers, I continue my 0:00:49.560 --> 0:00:53.000 chat with Andrew Stamper, who is a former commander of 0:00:53.280 --> 0:00:57.440 Victorian Homicide Squad and the Missing Person Squad. Andrew takes 0:00:57.480 --> 0:01:00.600 us deep inside the investigation of the brutal rape murder 0:01:01.120 --> 0:01:04.640 Eurodissy Dixon, who was killed by a stranger while she 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:08.400 was walking home. That was a really sad case. After 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:11.679 facing some of the worst of humanity, we also discussed 0:01:11.720 --> 0:01:15.400 the pressures of leading major investigations and how he survived 0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:18.080 so long at the sharp end of policing. Have at 0:01:18.080 --> 0:01:22.360 listened to what Andrew has to say? Andrew Stamp, Welcome 0:01:22.400 --> 0:01:24.679 back to part two of I Catch Killers. 0:01:25.440 --> 0:01:25.920 Thank you. 0:01:26.120 --> 0:01:28.679 That's always good to speak to a cop. We seem 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:31.880 to speak a certain language. This is not in my 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:36.240 show notes here, but I'm going to say this Michael Francisi, 0:01:36.600 --> 0:01:39.960 that he's a mafia capo. You look exactly like him. 0:01:40.040 --> 0:01:44.600 Is that right? Check where from. 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:47.400 New York mafia? He's a big He was a capo 0:01:47.520 --> 0:01:51.280 in the Columbia Mafia in New York. He was one 0:01:51.320 --> 0:01:54.720 of the most powerful mafia figures going around in his time. 0:01:55.520 --> 0:01:57.600 I've had him on the podcast and I also did 0:01:57.600 --> 0:02:00.320 a tour around the country. As strange as that sounds, 0:02:00.360 --> 0:02:06.040 with mafia cape, but have a look when you reform, reform, reform, 0:02:06.360 --> 0:02:08.760 I think Edie's peak he was earning eight million dollars 0:02:09.400 --> 0:02:13.680 a week. He was in had some scam going with 0:02:14.160 --> 0:02:17.160 petrol xiz and all that. But yeah, it was a 0:02:17.200 --> 0:02:17.720 real deal. 0:02:17.760 --> 0:02:20.120 But obviously a fairly good look and. 0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:22.960 A great a great style of a black Yeah. But 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:28.920 I just sitting there just look. Yeah, anyway, we'll get back, 0:02:29.200 --> 0:02:32.320 get back on topic. When we're talking the other day, 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:37.280 you were talking about the pressures of leadership leading high 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:40.280 profile investigations, but you also mentioned the word and it 0:02:40.400 --> 0:02:45.280 made me think too about the loneliness of leading investigations 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:48.120 because you've got people sitting above you and you're answering 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:51.080 to them, You've got your team underneath you that you're 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:54.920 trying to support them. It can be a fairly lonely position, 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:55.360 can't it. 0:02:55.720 --> 0:02:58.200 Oh, definitely, Yeah, the amount of times I said in 0:02:58.240 --> 0:03:01.040 my office, and you do feel like you know the 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:04.200 meat in the sandwich a little bit, because, yeah, the 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:08.880 expectations of the higher level. You put all your efforts 0:03:08.880 --> 0:03:11.440 into looking after your team as well and making sure 0:03:11.800 --> 0:03:14.040 that you know that or trying to do your best 0:03:14.040 --> 0:03:17.040 to make sure that you know that their welfare is 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:22.080 guided for. And something that often used to occur to 0:03:22.120 --> 0:03:23.880 me is that no one ever used to come and 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:26.480 tap me on the shoulder, and you know, certainly from 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:29.200 the higher level. And I'm not critical in it because 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:29.720 I think you. 0:03:29.720 --> 0:03:32.040 Know that's just that's the nature of the position. 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:35.680 You get lost as a as a senior investigating officer, 0:03:35.720 --> 0:03:38.720 and it's something that I've spoken about, you know, certainly 0:03:38.720 --> 0:03:43.120 the leadership forums around the country as well, that it 0:03:43.440 --> 0:03:46.280 can be a lonely place. And that's why, you know, 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:49.400 I was always and still am a big advocate for 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:52.800 self care and looking after yourself because I don't think 0:03:53.600 --> 0:03:56.640 you can look after others unless you look properly, unless 0:03:56.680 --> 0:03:59.720 you look after yourself. So that's that's been something that 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:02.360 I've I've been a strong advocate for. 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:05.280 How did you manage that? How did you manage a 0:04:05.320 --> 0:04:06.640 pressure looking after yourself? 0:04:07.840 --> 0:04:11.600 I did a lot of a lot of fitness work, 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:15.320 Like I run, not as far or as as well 0:04:15.360 --> 0:04:15.920 as I used to. 0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:17.920 Still you've still got one good brother. 0:04:18.120 --> 0:04:21.240 Still I was still I was still out running this morning, 0:04:21.279 --> 0:04:24.040 even with a bit of sunshine in Melbourne. So running, 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:26.560 you know, has been a big thing for me. I 0:04:26.600 --> 0:04:29.520 love the rhythm of running, and you believe it or not, 0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:32.520 I listen to hip hop music so big shout out 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:36.599 here to the hilltop who you know. For some reason, 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:38.840 I just kind of just like the rhythm of it. 0:04:38.920 --> 0:04:42.240 It just kind of yeah, just put some of that 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:44.640 on and go for a run, and it just helped 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:46.960 me to clear clear my head. And you know, another 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:49.920 fitness work. There's a lot of research now that shares 0:04:49.960 --> 0:04:53.640 that actually proves that resistance training, so lifting weights is 0:04:54.760 --> 0:04:57.200 a great thing for your mental health too, and I'd 0:04:57.240 --> 0:05:01.560 be a strong advocate for that, But I I use 0:05:01.560 --> 0:05:04.480 a word of caution as well now, and that you 0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:08.200 know from my own personal experience. I think fitness, like 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:12.479 any other medication, should come with a bit of a 0:05:12.520 --> 0:05:14.480 warning that you can do too much of it. And 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:17.520 I don't think at times that I probably started to 0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:23.839 wear myself out physically through exercise, through trying to actually 0:05:24.080 --> 0:05:27.000 come my brain a little bit. So that's a word 0:05:27.000 --> 0:05:31.680 of caution there. I do think there's no no medication 0:05:32.120 --> 0:05:35.000 for mental health better than getting out in the fresh 0:05:35.000 --> 0:05:38.000 air or going to the gym and having a good workout. 0:05:38.040 --> 0:05:41.880 But yeah, like anything else, you can become a bit 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:44.800 addicted to it, and it can become if you let it, 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:47.440 it can turn into a bit of a negative as well. 0:05:47.520 --> 0:05:50.880 So when you say running, I used to do a 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:53.560 lot of running as well, and it's like a moving 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:56.359 form of meditation. You could just get in and lose 0:05:56.400 --> 0:06:01.040 yourself in that, and that's the way I Yeah, twenty 0:06:01.080 --> 0:06:04.520 five years investigating homicides, and that's the way I would 0:06:04.839 --> 0:06:08.000 deal with it like the physical training like people you okay, 0:06:08.680 --> 0:06:12.800 and I would and encourage my team. I thought there 0:06:12.839 --> 0:06:15.160 was nothing better than the team building. If we all 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:17.400 went down to the gym at lunchtime, if the time 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:19.599 was there, or if I knew we had a busy day, 0:06:19.960 --> 0:06:21.720 let's all train in the morning, get it out of 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:25.760 the way, and then we can do what needs to 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:26.560 be done. 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:29.279 And it's changed a lot over the years, and that's 0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:31.839 very much, you know, I think, you know, cops have 0:06:31.920 --> 0:06:38.360 all different areas, you know, far more in the fitness now, 0:06:38.400 --> 0:06:41.719 whereas you know, it's not the life that we started 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:43.919 off with. Certainly, you know, it was more likely to 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:45.440 go down the pub at the end of the day 0:06:46.040 --> 0:06:48.600 and go to the gym. But you know, certainly for 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:50.719 me for the last twenty five years as well, it's 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:53.080 been more around fitness and just kind of looking trying 0:06:53.120 --> 0:06:54.600 to look after myself that way. 0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:56.640 Well, when you say not to go over the top. 0:06:56.680 --> 0:06:59.240 When I first started in the end, whole up squad, 0:06:59.279 --> 0:07:02.719 and this is year up squad of the eighties, so 0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:05.640 you eighties and early nineties, so you can imagine the 0:07:06.120 --> 0:07:08.560 amount of the drinking that was going on there. I 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:10.600 was heavily into my fitness, and I got to the 0:07:10.600 --> 0:07:12.720 point where I was just burning myself out. I can't 0:07:13.360 --> 0:07:16.040 drink all night then train all day and try to 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:19.240 fit work in there. So I sort of stepped away 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:22.720 from the drinking and thinking I can't can't keep this 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:26.680 pace up, but the fitness side of things. But look, 0:07:26.920 --> 0:07:29.320 I think it's an important message and hopefully people that 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:33.080 are listening to this might be encouraged to join the 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:36.679 police or even police officers listening to it. Like it's 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:39.080 helped me with a lot of pressure going through it. 0:07:39.120 --> 0:07:42.400 And it's interesting that you that's the first thing you 0:07:42.440 --> 0:07:45.960 say about the benefits of physical training to get you 0:07:46.000 --> 0:07:48.559 through the get you through the pressure. And it helps 0:07:48.560 --> 0:07:50.840 on those jobs when you're up for twenty four hours 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:53.520 and that, and I could see that the people that 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:57.840 could handle the pace of that when you know, some 0:07:57.880 --> 0:08:00.640 of those jobs come and you just got to operate 0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:03.680 without sleep and just keep pushing forward. 0:08:04.000 --> 0:08:06.440 Yeah, but you know, I'd still go to the gym 0:08:06.440 --> 0:08:08.480 at the end of that as well. And people think 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:10.320 you're crazy, you know, you've been up all night, but 0:08:10.440 --> 0:08:12.080 you know, just go to the gym just to wind 0:08:12.120 --> 0:08:14.960 down a little bit and I'm certain towards the end, 0:08:15.000 --> 0:08:16.920 I preferred to work out at the end of the 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:19.600 day rather than the beginning of the day. It's just 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:23.160 kind of the way it worked with me, just to help, 0:08:23.280 --> 0:08:24.920 just to clear my brain a little bit before I 0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:25.480 got home. 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:28.160 No, I think it's a good thing. And if my 0:08:28.280 --> 0:08:30.000 team were looking for me, they'd say I was in 0:08:30.040 --> 0:08:33.040 the happy place, and that happy place was a gymnasium 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:36.440 or the local police boys club in case I want 0:08:36.520 --> 0:08:39.800 to want to talk about. It's a horrible case, and 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:42.240 I think it touched on a lot of people because 0:08:42.240 --> 0:08:44.440 of the nature of the crime and just the randomness 0:08:44.440 --> 0:08:49.760 of the crime. Was the murder of a comedian. You're 0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:52.680 a DC am I pronouncing that correct? Yeah? 0:08:52.760 --> 0:08:57.679 I think eurrot Is or Eurydicy Youdic Dixon. 0:08:58.200 --> 0:09:02.400 She was only twenty two years old and was raped 0:09:02.440 --> 0:09:05.920 and murdered walking through the streets of Melbourne. You're involved 0:09:05.960 --> 0:09:09.040 in that matter, Can you tell us about that case? 0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:13.240 I was in charge of homicide of that particular time 0:09:13.240 --> 0:09:16.599 when that happened, and you know, as you know, you 0:09:17.440 --> 0:09:21.439 as leading the squad like that, you've got a lot 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:23.440 of people that are actually doing the hands on stuff. 0:09:23.480 --> 0:09:27.280 So yeah, I've got to actually make a big shout 0:09:27.360 --> 0:09:31.720 out to the people that actually, you know, manage that 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:34.960 investigation from the start, because I have a strong feeling 0:09:35.880 --> 0:09:40.640 about that particular investigation, and we caught that individual within 0:09:40.679 --> 0:09:44.080 twenty four hours, and my view is that he would 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:47.439 have gone on and done more if we hadn't. It 0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:50.800 was so random the way it happened, and his trajectory 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:59.040 of offending was so significant. I honestly believe that if 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:01.000 he hadn't been called, he would he would have gone 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:06.040 and done more. So I've got enormous pride and respect 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:09.720 for the people that actually ran the investigation. I as 0:10:10.040 --> 0:10:13.439 being in charge of the squad, was the public face 0:10:13.480 --> 0:10:16.920 of that at the time, which was which was particularly 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:22.840 difficult because I think when you get cases like that, 0:10:23.200 --> 0:10:28.720 you really run the full, the full spectrum of public emotions. 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:32.040 And I came to learn a lot around you know, 0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:36.360 how a community grees when there's something like that, and 0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:39.080 there's phases of community grief. I think the first one 0:10:39.120 --> 0:10:41.560 is when something like that has happened is just is 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:46.560 just absolute shock, and then it kind of goes to sympathy, 0:10:47.320 --> 0:10:51.200 and then it kind of goes to anger and then 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:54.560 into why you know, why did this happen. There's there's 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:57.280 really specific phases of it, and I really felt it 0:10:57.320 --> 0:11:00.600 through that time, you know, and I copped I copied 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:04.000 a bitter criticism about some comments that were that were made, 0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:07.280 and I think unfairly there were some elements of the 0:11:07.320 --> 0:11:10.240 media that were happy to kind of jump on and 0:11:10.320 --> 0:11:14.560 drive an agenda and really didn't recognize the amazing work 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:17.280 that had been done by the cops to actually find 0:11:17.280 --> 0:11:20.360 this individual and holding to account ultimately and stopping from 0:11:20.360 --> 0:11:21.439 doing it to anyone else. 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:26.200 I'll talk about that criticism that you got because I'm 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:30.199 aware of it, but the actual crime, it was literally 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:32.480 a person and this is these are quite often the 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:34.840 sad ones, someone in the wrong place at the wrong 0:11:34.880 --> 0:11:36.760 time with a presator. 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:41.160 And I hate to use the analogy because it just 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:48.520 seemed so so insignificant in terms of what happened. But 0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:53.440 it was a sliding doors moment. You know. He just 0:11:53.480 --> 0:11:55.440 happened to be standing on you know, pretty much on 0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:58.400 the corner of Flint Destreet and Swanston Straight outside Young 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:04.720 and Jackson's hotel and Erotics. Was was walking down Swanston 0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:09.640 Straight and he just happened to see it and you know, 0:12:09.800 --> 0:12:12.480 she was from what I understand she was, you know, 0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:17.160 she was in a really happy mood and he just caught, 0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:20.240 you know, caught, caught a look at her and for 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:23.160 whatever reason, decided to start following her. He followed at 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:27.080 the length of Swanston straight up towards Carlton to you know, 0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:30.760 where Melbourne University is and which is where he attacked her. 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:34.160 But he stalked her for a significant period of time 0:12:34.200 --> 0:12:37.319 and it was all based upon that initial contact and 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:40.439 and it's something that's really stuck with me and in 0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:45.160 that and other cases, how unfair it can be that, 0:12:46.160 --> 0:12:48.760 you know, because if if he'd looked left instead of right, 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:52.880 well you know, it wouldn't it wouldn't have happened. And 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:56.440 it's it's just so it's just so tragic. It's just 0:12:56.520 --> 0:13:00.960 so tragic. But yeah, it was certainly, you know, trying 0:13:00.960 --> 0:13:03.920 to find the right way to communicate that to the 0:13:03.960 --> 0:13:06.880 community because there had already been other cases here in 0:13:06.920 --> 0:13:10.160 Melbourne and certainly I'm sure elsewhere in Australia as well, 0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:14.319 where where the public messaging around that had been criticized, 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:20.520 around victim blaming, and it's it's really difficult to know 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:25.319 what to say, and certainly, you know, the media conference 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:28.760 that I did around that is as a whole story 0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:31.240 in itself, it's probably the biggest one I did in 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:34.000 my career. And bear in mind we'd arrested him at 0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:39.079 that stage, we knew that there would be someone somebody 0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:43.120 would ask the question around the safety of you know, 0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:46.640 women and walking the streets, and how do you how 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:49.080 do you answer that? I mean, I would I would 0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:54.240 love to live in utopia where we don't have to 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:57.760 worry about walking the streets. But as the father of 0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:00.679 a daughter, I remember that night. We we were sitting 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:05.600 around having dinner that night and my son after i'd 0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:09.000 you know, there had been criticism of the way that 0:14:09.200 --> 0:14:11.400 you know, and there was only some sections of the 0:14:11.400 --> 0:14:17.160 media that basically accused me and others have kind of 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:21.400 blaming the victims. My son actually said, you know, well 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:23.520 why do they do that? And my daughter was sitting 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:26.320 sitting at the table as well, and I used it 0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:27.960 as one of those you know, whether you call it 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:30.240 a teachable moment, you know, in these days, and it 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:33.360 was it was actually a moment for him to actually say, well, 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:36.680 you know, my daughter at that age was training, she 0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:39.120 was going to the gym. You know, she was going 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:41.200 there at certain times because she didn't want to be 0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:43.360 at the gym at certain times, because you know, there 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:45.680 was more blocks there. And I knew that she parked 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:48.720 her car in a certain place at the gym where 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:51.400 there was more light, and you know, because she went 0:14:51.440 --> 0:14:53.640 there a bit later. And I said to Will, you'll 0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:56.400 never have to worry about that, you know, And this 0:14:56.560 --> 0:15:00.440 is reality. And it breaks my heart that we you know, 0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:03.280 there are sections of us, you know, society and someone 0:15:03.320 --> 0:15:06.040 who's very dear to me that they have to have 0:15:06.200 --> 0:15:10.640 these extra considerations in life and extra concerns in life. 0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:14.080 But it's sadly, it's the reality of the society that 0:15:14.120 --> 0:15:15.880 we live in. And you know, people say, well, how 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:18.760 can we fix that? Well, you know, we could go 0:15:18.840 --> 0:15:24.320 to a Singapore style of society, where you know, there 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:29.640 are far more consequences for bad actions, far more control 0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:33.000 I suppose over the individuals. Would I put my hand 0:15:33.040 --> 0:15:37.720 up for that one percent one percent, But the majority 0:15:37.720 --> 0:15:40.440 of people wouldn't, wouldn't want that, you know, so we're 0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:41.240 not going to have that. 0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:47.000 And the criticism, my understanding, flowed on it from warning 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:50.800 that women should be safe walking home at night, or 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:54.800 just be cautious or something as innocuous as that. That 0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:55.800 sort of. 0:15:57.360 --> 0:16:01.600 I recall this because I have about and again this 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:05.000 is another story for over a beer one day, but 0:16:05.520 --> 0:16:07.960 I had about literally about one minute to prepare for 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:11.000 that for that media conference. I didn't want to do it, 0:16:11.040 --> 0:16:14.800 and you know, but it actually came from above that 0:16:14.920 --> 0:16:17.760 somebody they wanted us to do it. We actually we 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:20.840 charged an individual, and we didn't normally do press conferences 0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:23.760 after we charge someone. But because there was so much 0:16:24.840 --> 0:16:28.040 a feeling in the community about it, the thought from 0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:31.560 the very senior level of our organization was that there 0:16:31.560 --> 0:16:36.080 needed to be some reassurance messaging put out there. So yeah, 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:38.680 I went to our media unit. I had about one 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:40.640 minute to prepare. They gave me a whole heap of 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:43.560 media lines and I scanned through them and I looked 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:45.400 at ninety nine percent of them. I said, I can't 0:16:45.440 --> 0:16:49.720 say that because we charged someone. And then they'd given 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:52.600 me a version of if you do get that question, 0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:56.320 well what it should be, and I kind of thought, yeah, 0:16:56.440 --> 0:17:00.520 and it was really My response was something along the 0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:04.480 lines of we all have to be aware of our 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:08.080 environment and you know, in our personal safety and that 0:17:08.160 --> 0:17:11.560 was about it, and there have been some other comments. 0:17:11.560 --> 0:17:14.640 So I'd done a media interview with the divisional commander 0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:17.199 for that area earlier in the day, and you know, 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:20.000 he sort of copped a bit of a bit of 0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:23.119 flag for that one too. But I think, you know, 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:26.560 in terms of the effort that we were putting into 0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:30.520 behind the scenes to actually catch this catch this individual, 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:32.480 or that we had done it. You know, at that time, 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:34.560 we'd actually done it. We'd taken him off the streets 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:37.840 and charged him, and it had been an incredible piece 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:42.000 of work to do that. It was unfair. But you know, 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:44.200 again I've put a lot of thought into it over 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:46.480 the years and thinking about, you know, how a community 0:17:46.560 --> 0:17:49.040 grieves when something like that happens. And it's right that 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:53.520 we should, because we should be outraged if a young 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:58.720 woman can't walk home safely and has you know, and 0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:01.800 it's subjected to an evil act like that, we should 0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:05.280 be outraged. And so I actually, you know, put a 0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:07.639 lot of thought into actually just you know, how a 0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:11.600 community does grief something like that. And again, I think 0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:13.199 it's just one of those times where you've got to 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:17.199 ride the waves as a sort of senior police member 0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:19.760 and think, well, this is just kind of part of 0:18:19.760 --> 0:18:22.520 that grieving process. 0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:22.840 Grief. 0:18:23.440 --> 0:18:25.439 We all want answers. We all want to know, how 0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:27.600 do we stop this from happening again. That's that's the 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:31.320 most important part of it. How do we stop it 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:34.080 from happening again? And you know, I wish we could. 0:18:34.840 --> 0:18:38.399 I think you your instinct on that case too, like 0:18:38.880 --> 0:18:43.280 a crime like that happens, that we got to catch him, 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:45.480 or this might occur again. 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:46.120 Was right? 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:48.920 That's the way I would look at the crime, the 0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:51.080 crime of that nature. Do you know, I think he 0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:52.800 was nine, nine years old, you know, if he had 0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:55.240 any any history leading up to it, was there. 0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:59.440 Anything really inocuous from memory? There was basically nothing else. 0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:04.200 I said, you know, that was his offending. The trajectory 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:07.480 of you know, his offending just went from basically zero 0:19:07.600 --> 0:19:11.919 to one. That was the one thing I think with 0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:16.080 him that made me think if we didn't get him quickly, 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:19.080 that he would see this and he would feed off 0:19:19.440 --> 0:19:23.200 the notoriety or what he would see as the notoriety 0:19:23.560 --> 0:19:26.439 and and look to do it again. And as we 0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:30.960 all know, over time, there's been serial killers who have 0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:36.480 gone on and done that. Unfortunately, they don't happen as much. 0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:40.600 And I'm touching Wood really seriously here again now. And 0:19:40.640 --> 0:19:42.840 I think a lot of that is to do with, 0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:45.320 you know, a lot of the technology and a lot 0:19:45.359 --> 0:19:49.000 of the accountability in society. I think I think it's 0:19:49.040 --> 0:19:51.679 a lot harder for someone like that, but you've got 0:19:51.720 --> 0:19:52.760 to get on to him quick. 0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:58.119 Yeah, definitely. And I think investigative practices have approved and 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:02.439 involved evolved, and that's why, Yeah, there's less of the 0:20:02.600 --> 0:20:05.280 serial predators. And we're also have a bit more of 0:20:05.320 --> 0:20:11.040 an understanding like serial killing identified as serial killers that 0:20:11.080 --> 0:20:14.480 we're looking for that only came out around in the 0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:17.560 seventies when we started talking and talking and talking about that. 0:20:17.880 --> 0:20:20.199 And I think the way that we communicate between the 0:20:20.200 --> 0:20:24.680 different law enforcement agencies and understanding the nature nature of 0:20:24.720 --> 0:20:30.440 the crime we're reducing it. A crime like that adds 0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:33.320 another layer of pressure, doesn't it. When the team that's 0:20:33.359 --> 0:20:36.280 investigating it, And as you said, you're sitting as the 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:39.000 boss of homicide at the time and there's a team 0:20:39.040 --> 0:20:42.720 working under I'm at pains to explain anytime we're talking 0:20:42.720 --> 0:20:46.240 about I did this or that. It's always a team environment. 0:20:46.280 --> 0:20:50.320 You are working working in the team, but the team 0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:53.840 heading up that investigation would have felt the pressure. 0:20:54.240 --> 0:20:57.680 Absolutely, and I think your job as the boss there 0:20:57.840 --> 0:21:00.199 is to is to shield them as much as you 0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:02.399 possibly can. And I always felt that that was my 0:21:03.400 --> 0:21:06.240 most significant role in those times when you did get 0:21:06.280 --> 0:21:09.720 an investigation like that, was to actually be the buffer 0:21:10.240 --> 0:21:13.879 and let them do their work, which is we both 0:21:13.960 --> 0:21:17.880 know they do really well, I mean ultimately. And there 0:21:17.920 --> 0:21:19.760 was a decision that we had to make on that one, 0:21:19.760 --> 0:21:22.520 and we had to make it pretty quickly, and because 0:21:22.520 --> 0:21:25.600 we did, we got a photograph and we weren't one 0:21:25.680 --> 0:21:28.399 hundred percent sure at the time that it was the 0:21:28.400 --> 0:21:30.560 person we were looking for, but certainly it was someone 0:21:30.640 --> 0:21:34.600 who who we could say it was a significant person 0:21:34.640 --> 0:21:37.600 of interest. And I remember looking at the time, it 0:21:37.640 --> 0:21:40.000 was like quarter to sixth and I thought, we we've 0:21:40.000 --> 0:21:40.560 got to get. 0:21:40.400 --> 0:21:42.159 This on the evening meet news. 0:21:42.880 --> 0:21:45.359 And you know, as you know, putting a photograph on, 0:21:46.080 --> 0:21:49.560 you know, potentially the national news when you're not one 0:21:49.640 --> 0:21:53.680 hundred percent sure comes with it comes with risk. So 0:21:53.800 --> 0:21:56.359 we had to be really careful around our wording as well, 0:21:56.560 --> 0:22:00.120 you know that this was a person of interest, and 0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:02.600