1 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to The Australian's Money Puzzle podcast. I'm 2 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:18,240 Speaker 1: James Kirkby, the Wealth editor at The Australian. Welcome aboard everybody, Well, 3 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 1: how is your financial year going? We are moving towards 4 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: the end of January. You've had a few weeks now. 5 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: Have you enacted those plans formulating in your mind all 6 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 1: through the holidays about what you were going to do? 7 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 1: Have you got on top of those posts you had 8 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:37,479 Speaker 1: about maximizing your situation as an investor? Have you sold 9 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: those stocks that you know are no good and you 10 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: won't let go? And most importantly, have you got a plan? 11 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:47,280 Speaker 1: Have you got a plan for this year? And my 12 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 1: guest today is what I would think of as a 13 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 1: classic financial planner and keeps his eyes firmly fixed on 14 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 1: the issues that matter most two investors, and that often 15 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 1: comes down to actual detail or the nitty grit if 16 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: you like, of managing money as much as it does 17 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: what we all have to talk about, which is markets 18 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 1: and global forces and geopolitics which drive markets seem short 19 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: of the Sonas Group, He's volunteer to answer the first 20 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 1: batch of questions from investors for the year. How are 21 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:21,959 Speaker 1: you Liam. 22 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 2: I'm very good. James has a lovely breakover Christmas in 23 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:27,119 Speaker 2: New Year, so ready to go for twenty twenty five. 24 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:29,480 Speaker 1: I like the sound of that. I like the sound 25 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 1: of the refreshed guest. Very good, very good. All right 26 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 1: now we still are just about and perhaps no more 27 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: after this, but I think people do like to reset 28 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: and get a sense of, you know, how is last 29 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: year of what's coming down the line. We've covered that 30 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 1: in the show fairly well, and most people would have 31 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 1: listened now to the summer series where we laid out 32 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 1: what the expectations are and some guides if you like, 33 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 1: for the year ahead in all acid classes, shares and 34 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: property and everything else. Just from your point of view, Liam, 35 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: in terms of every year, some planners will be so 36 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 1: sort of focused on a textbook approach. Would be like 37 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 1: that they refuse to think that there's anything different one 38 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:14,800 Speaker 1: year after another, that the basic stay the same, but 39 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: there's always new things. And just give us, if you would, 40 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:22,119 Speaker 1: your estimation of what the risks and opportunities are specifically 41 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:24,520 Speaker 1: this year. What about the risks, because I know there 42 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:26,799 Speaker 1: is there's certainly some points you want to make. 43 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 2: Now we've had a couple of good years for people 44 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 2: to invest in cash and fixed interest term of positive 45 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:34,799 Speaker 2: rates have been above five percent, and they did really well, 46 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 2: and they've got accustomed to it. And now what we're 47 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 2: seeing is as those rates start to drop and people 48 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 2: understand that they're probably going to drop a fair bit 49 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 2: in this year, probably about over zero point eight percent 50 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:49,080 Speaker 2: by the end of the year, but it's still a 51 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 2: drop below that five percent. Key what I'm afraid of 52 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 2: is that people are now going to be poached or 53 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 2: attracted to new investments that are still offering more than 54 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 2: five percent and in some case is double that by 55 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:04,640 Speaker 2: making it sound like they're safe investments. That The one 56 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 2: I'm worried about is private credit and private equity. Often 57 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 2: these are badged up as wholesale investments sold to wholesale investors, 58 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 2: which means it just means somebody with assets over two 59 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:17,960 Speaker 2: and a half million or an income over two hundred 60 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 2: and fifty zer now in one of the capital cities 61 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 2: that a person's house may qualify them for that. So 62 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 2: what concern is these investments are being targeted at people 63 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 2: because their wholesale investor status, they don't have to give 64 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 2: as much information. There's no protection in the background if 65 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 2: it goes wrong, because they're not retail funds. So all 66 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 2: I'm saying to people is, instead of trying to chase returns, 67 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 2: understand that the cash raid is going to drop a 68 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 2: little bit and your term deposits will drop a bit. 69 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 2: Maybe look to do a two or three year term 70 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 2: to posit that your four point seven or four point 71 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 2: eight percent rather than worrying about, you know, sort of 72 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 2: trying to get more than five percent in a different investment. 73 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: That's thing you know, people have we you know this 74 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: can't this this broadcam census and team that rates cycle 75 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 1: the top, then that rates will fall in the year ahead. 76 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 1: I've not actually come I'm not entirely convincedly in myself 77 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 1: that they will, but they may, and the US certainly, 78 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 1: I'm particularly not convinced that they might fall anymore. 79 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 2: There. 80 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:21,719 Speaker 1: But having said that, that doesn't matter, because the banks 81 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:24,279 Speaker 1: will upset their rates anyway, won't they. They'll do what 82 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 1: they like regardless of official rates to some degree. So 83 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:30,600 Speaker 1: you're altually coming upon this when you talk about this 84 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 1: whole rush to private credit and unlisted opportunities, but mostly 85 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:41,719 Speaker 1: what they call private credit. Private and let's distinguish that 86 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 1: from private equity or whatever. This is private credit where 87 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 1: people are it's put in front of investors that they 88 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 1: can get in on this sort of line of business 89 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 1: that was always there, and for some reason we are 90 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:56,719 Speaker 1: led to believe that all of a sudden it suits everyone. 91 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:00,080 Speaker 1: And why hadn't everyone been in it all the time? 92 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:04,480 Speaker 1: Tell me, if you would, how that comes across and 93 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:08,599 Speaker 1: how how are people like our listeners encountering this. Is 94 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 1: it in the way of a listed option, a listed 95 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 1: investment on the market. Is it a private fund? How 96 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 1: how does this stuff get offered? Is it just ads 97 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:19,160 Speaker 1: basically in newspapers and on websites. 98 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, often it's being prompted by you know, promotion 99 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:27,600 Speaker 2: to accountants or to probably trusted advisors, and they're you know, 100 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 2: they're being sold. But it's usually unlisted and you're talking 101 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 2: a managed funder unit trust. The key factors that we've 102 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 2: seen it is because it's private credit, it's loans to companies, 103 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 2: and a lot of this has come from the fact 104 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 2: that in construction of property development at the moment, they're 105 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:45,480 Speaker 2: finding it hard to raise money from the normal lenders, 106 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 2: the banks and other providers, so they're looking for an 107 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 2: alternative source of financing, and that's where these private credit 108 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 2: funds are built up. So they're packaging up these It 109 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:58,280 Speaker 2: might be you know a number of different developments around 110 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 2: the country and you're funding that the developer. But it 111 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 2: doesn't really sound like that in the perspectives. It's just 112 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:07,599 Speaker 2: and it is a very short perspectives because it's for wholesale. 113 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:10,719 Speaker 2: It's basically been sold as you know sort of, it's 114 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 2: you lending to private companies, you know, and it's pretty 115 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 2: secured secured over investments, and you know, but you know, 116 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 2: you start looking at things like it may be locked 117 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:22,919 Speaker 2: in for three to four years, so there's no liquidity, 118 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:26,720 Speaker 2: there's no guarantee on the return on the investments, even 119 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:29,919 Speaker 2: though there's assets backing it. Well. You know, for example, 120 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:33,040 Speaker 2: if there's a development that falls apart and doesn't go ahead, 121 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 2: most of the money could be lost on that. It 122 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 2: just depends on what they recover selling the land that's there. 123 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 2: So I just warned people to to think twice, get 124 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 2: an independent view of something like that, and really ask themselves, 125 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 2: am I a wholesaler sophisticated investor do it have I 126 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,840 Speaker 2: really got the knowledge to manage something like this and 127 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 2: to be involved in something like this, and there is 128 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 2: the person who's selling it to be are they connected 129 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 2: to it in any way integrated? 130 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: I must ask you two things. One is, this isn't 131 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 1: all private, right? There is listed versions of this, isn't there? 132 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 2: Yes? 133 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 1: So that means you don't have to be a sophisticated investor, right. 134 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: So if it's on the share market, you can buy 135 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 1: five hundred buxworth. So but as you say, the sort 136 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 1: of target audience is so cold sophisticated investor audience, which 137 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 1: is something of a misleading term these days if it 138 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: was ever or anything else, but certainly misleading these days 139 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 1: because it allows the seller of the product to not 140 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 1: take half as many as they don't have half as 141 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 1: much responsibility to you because you're classified as sophisticated. You're 142 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 1: classified sophisticated. Nothing to do with your sophistication, just a 143 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: matter of your bank accounts and how much you have. 144 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: And they haven't indexter changed that threshold. Consequently, the number 145 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: of people who qualify has become enormous, really, and they 146 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 1: are reviewing that, but for the moment everyone's taking advantage 147 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 1: of it. I went to a presentation with the top 148 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 1: really the top and I'm not want to pin someone here, 149 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 1: but I went to the presentation from the leading private 150 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 1: credit group probably in Australia and one of the originals. 151 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 1: And of course people would have made money out of 152 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: this fund and funds from this house in the early days, 153 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 1: and now of course they see now they just know, 154 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 1: you know, this is what we're going to go for 155 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 1: the middle Australia. We can get the average investor. And 156 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 1: the same group has gone very big and they've moved 157 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 1: from their little suburban office block up in the suburbs 158 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: into the middle of town. I'm sure you have an 159 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 1: idea who I'm talking about. Anyway, it was such a 160 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 1: good presentation. It was so convincing, and it was about 161 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 1: how the banks were pulling back and the banks weren't 162 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:45,960 Speaker 1: really lending anymore, and this was the opportunity for lifetime 163 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: and you know, don't miss this, You're going to If 164 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:51,959 Speaker 1: you miss this, you're going to regret it. Blah blah blah, 165 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 1: And it was quite convincing. What's the flow in their presentation? 166 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:55,680 Speaker 1: Do you think. 167 00:08:56,320 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 2: It's the nature of the assets that are backing these 168 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 2: funds has changed dramatically since COVID. The financing is tougher 169 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 2: materials have gone up to cost the trades to complete 170 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:11,599 Speaker 2: these developments, and council requirements to complete these developments. Is 171 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 2: it all? 172 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:12,839 Speaker 1: It's propertly Liam, is it? 173 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 2: I mean? 174 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 1: Is there nothing else to these guys are doing? 175 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 2: There is some yeah, you know, we talked to private 176 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 2: equity separate, but there's also you know, financing for companies 177 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 2: that want to do some growth and things like that. 178 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:25,440 Speaker 2: The ones I'm worried about are the ones that are 179 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 2: backing construction. I know that we have to build in 180 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 2: this country, and I know that's required, but I don't 181 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 2: think that should be done on the back of people 182 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 2: that don't understand what they're getting into. If I was 183 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 2: doing funding a private developer, I would be wanting eighteen 184 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 2: to twenty five percent return. So when somebody sees something 185 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 2: that says ten to twelve percent and it's a great opportunity, 186 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 2: I don't think that's a great opportunity because you're taking 187 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 2: a lot of risk that the development can go wrong, 188 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:51,079 Speaker 2: and we you know, I think there's over seven hundred 189 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 2: construction companies went bust in Victoria last year, and I'm 190 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 2: not sure the number of New South Wales and the 191 00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 2: other States. But that should tell you alone. And the 192 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 2: thing you mentioned the banks are pulling back from this area. Yeah, 193 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 2: the banks have assessed the risk and decided. 194 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 1: It's too book. That's right. It was good, it was 195 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 1: good business. You'd imagine they'd be in there. I want 196 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 1: to simplify it, but there is that line of thinking, okay, 197 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 1: very good. So it's interesting that to do this with you, 198 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 1: just to sort of narrow down and say, Okay, there 199 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 1: standing risk and what about the harder question imagined for 200 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: someone like you to answer, what about the outstanding opportunities 201 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 1: This year? 202 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 2: It can be really volative, continued volatile year. There's a 203 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 2: bit of euphoria today that Gazza seems to be you 204 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 2: on its first step, but that that could fall apart 205 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 2: very quickly, and if it does, then may be a 206 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 2: shock to the market. So this is a year to 207 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 2: keep some money in cash. Trump is coming in. If 208 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 2: he suddenly announces tariffs or threadns tariffs, the markets may drop. 209 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 2: That's always his first gamble gambit, so he often pulls 210 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 2: back from that. So when he does threaten them, the 211 00:10:57,240 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 2: markets may fall. That maybe your time to buy into 212 00:10:59,920 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 2: a nicely diversified ETF and just get yourself a little 213 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 2: bit of extra exposure and just ride that wave of 214 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:08,319 Speaker 2: recovery once he calms down and says, okay, instead of 215 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 2: a twenty five percent taro, if I'm going to do 216 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:12,439 Speaker 2: a five percent taro for you know, I'm not going 217 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 2: to attack Canada and Mexico because they are good. 218 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 1: Neighbors in itself. By the dips. Is this fairly bullish view, 219 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:20,199 Speaker 1: isn't it? 220 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 2: Well? If if you're buying into a solid blue chap 221 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 2: etf well diversified for the long term, it's nice to 222 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:29,200 Speaker 2: get in at five or ten percent below where it's 223 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:32,320 Speaker 2: currently trading. Yeah. And I'm a long term investor, James, 224 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 2: So I'm not trying to trade the market. I'm just 225 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:37,440 Speaker 2: looking for opportunities for at the moment, I'm looking at 226 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 2: it and going, oh, I really don't want to put 227 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:41,560 Speaker 2: more into the market at the moment. But if I've 228 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:43,200 Speaker 2: got an opportunity to get in at five or ten 229 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 2: percent less, yeah, So for the long term, I'd like 230 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:48,320 Speaker 2: to just move a little bit of money from cash 231 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 2: and fixed interest where we've done really well, just to 232 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 2: take a little bit of an extra risk going forward. 233 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 2: But also I'm taking some money out of things like 234 00:11:55,960 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 2: CommonWell Bank and things that just can't back their valuations. 235 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 2: And I'm just saying a lot of my clients are 236 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:05,680 Speaker 2: in pension phase, so there's no CGT, so I'm able 237 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:07,439 Speaker 2: to take some money out of there, and just I'm 238 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 2: looking for opportunities of where to place that. 239 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 1: Okay, that's right, Okay, very interesting two issues there. One 240 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:17,680 Speaker 1: is obviously that idea that the fixed interest has the 241 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:20,679 Speaker 1: cycle has topped, as you say, and you said at 242 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 1: the start, perhaps if you still want that, perhaps you 243 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 1: fix at the inn and around these levels, knowing that 244 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 1: you know, there's very few times in history really where 245 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:32,560 Speaker 1: you get where your cash rad is above this to say, 246 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: four to six percent. That's a sort of standard range, 247 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:35,079 Speaker 1: isn't it. 248 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:38,200 Speaker 2: And I was just getting some quotes this morning, James. 249 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:42,439 Speaker 2: So you can get a four year annuity for four 250 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 2: point nine percent, or a five year one at four 251 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:46,960 Speaker 2: point nine to five. So that's locking in four point 252 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 2: nine five percent paid each year for the next five years. 253 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 2: You know, if you're somebody in pension phase that needs 254 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 2: to fund your your pensions, that's a lovely guarantee for 255 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 2: the next time. 256 00:12:57,240 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: That's you said, a newity. That's not a fix. That's 257 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 1: not that cash deposit. 258 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:04,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, the term deposits. For the same time, you're looking 259 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,559 Speaker 2: at four point five to four point seven, So you 260 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:09,679 Speaker 2: can get that a little bit extra by going through 261 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 2: an annuity provided and there's challenger and resolution life and comeback. 262 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 2: So just shop around and just have a look. 263 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 1: You're putting cash with the annuity provider, is. 264 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 2: It, yes, into a fixed term annuity? 265 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 1: Yes, I see a right, okay, and they tend to 266 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 1: pay a little more, do they. 267 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:29,079 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, at the moment they do. Okay, you can 268 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:31,959 Speaker 2: still get The trick is you can open an incentive 269 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 2: save over with one of the banks, or you know, 270 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:36,079 Speaker 2: a high interest savings acount and still get over five. 271 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 2: But we know at some stage during the year that's 272 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 2: going to drop. Even if interest rates don't drop, the 273 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 2: banks will start dropping them themselves. You had three months 274 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:46,199 Speaker 2: ago the term deposit rates dropped the four point seventy 275 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 2: five because the thought rates would really start dropping from February. 276 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 2: Now we're back up to where we can get five 277 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 2: percent for term deposits at the moment for one year, 278 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:57,200 Speaker 2: four point nine for two years, and then it starts 279 00:13:57,240 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 2: dropping off. But when I was so I was looking 280 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 2: for alternatives. And I looked at some the nudities over 281 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:04,200 Speaker 2: the last few days and I can get four point 282 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:06,319 Speaker 2: seven to four point nine to five from two year 283 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 2: to five years. So you talk about laddering to make 284 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 2: sure that you're covering your future capital needs to pay 285 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 2: pensions or to pay your living expenses. And by using 286 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 2: those term the puzzles and the nudies over twelve twenty four, yeah, 287 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 2: three years, four years, and five years, they can lock 288 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 2: in and be sure that then with the rest of 289 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 2: their money, they don't have to react to market changes. 290 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 2: They can invest longer term knowing that they've covered their. 291 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 1: Cost, they've got this core and they know they're going 292 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 1: to get for it over a period of time. Very yeah, 293 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 1: very interesting. Okay, all right, And just on the other issue, 294 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 1: just before we go to the break, taking some off 295 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 1: the table. Obviously, after a very good year on equity markets, 296 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 1: there are certainly a very good year when we look 297 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 1: at it, it was only it was a goodish year 298 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 1: for equity markets, but it was a spectacularly year for 299 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 1: bank stocks. So you're talking about taking a little bit 300 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 1: off the top of the bank stocks. 301 00:14:56,680 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, and look last year I was winging that back 302 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 2: in nab and an Ain said, we're so far behind 303 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 2: and they just had they had a great year and 304 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 2: they've pulled up. I don't understand Commonell Bank at the 305 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 2: moment why it's up where it is. So I am 306 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:13,360 Speaker 2: taking profits on that, but you know, I'm not coming 307 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 2: out of them. I'm just saying, you know, let's just 308 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:17,640 Speaker 2: take a bit of a risk off the table. It's 309 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 2: been a good run and you know, you know, in 310 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 2: a lot of cases now I need to prepare for 311 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 2: future pension payments and things like that. So I am 312 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 2: just building up that cash with the idea that if 313 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 2: the market does take a big drop, I have the 314 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 2: option to go in and get in a little low 315 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 2: price if I need to. 316 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 1: Right, Okay, very good, Very good. All right, we'll take 317 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 1: short break, Folks'll be back in a minute. Hello, Welcome 318 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 1: back to the Australians and Honey Puzzle podcast. I'm James Kirby, 319 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 1: was editor at The Australian, talking to financial advisor Liam 320 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 1: Short of the Sonas Group, who's often on the show. 321 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:01,280 Speaker 1: Always a popular guest. I'm one of my first guests 322 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 1: of the year for the Money Puzzle. Okay, Liam, I've 323 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 1: collected quite a few questions for you. We may not 324 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 1: get through them all, and keep the questions coming everybody. 325 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 1: They're really good, and I've noticed that they're getting more 326 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 1: and more diverse in nature, which is great actually, and 327 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 1: all sorts of Sometimes people literally just make a comment 328 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 1: or an observation. That's all welcome. Okay, Catherine says, I 329 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: love the podcast. I'm so glad. I wish I'd come 330 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 1: across this sort of information years ago. Thank you, Catherine. 331 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 1: The hard part for me was understanding and making the 332 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 1: first investment, taking that initial plunge, then coping with everything else. 333 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 1: I guess I learned by doing, But in hindsight I 334 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: really had issues finding good, clean information and independent advice. 335 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 1: I do not really think it is possible to make 336 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 1: good decisions without having basic knowledge, given the number of 337 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: bad operators out there. Okay, Catherine, now can you please 338 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 1: talk about it realistic long term journey to financial literacy 339 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 1: and security. Please and recommend basic courses on finance because 340 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 1: I have found there is a lot of bad advice 341 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:14,680 Speaker 1: out there. Okay. It's a great question, you know, with 342 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 1: something we should cover more often. Someone who's starting or 343 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 1: is somewhere near the start of an investment journey. And 344 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 1: I wish I do wish I could tell you there's 345 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 1: a course that you can sign up for. I really do. 346 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,120 Speaker 1: I don't know it, and I hate to tell you 347 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:34,640 Speaker 1: that a lot of the private courses are deeply skeptical 348 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 1: about courses offered by anyone selling anything. What do you think, Liam, Yeah. 349 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 2: Well look for me. There's two things you need to 350 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 2: start with. One, understand your cash flow. So just go 351 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 2: to moneysmart dot co the you and look for the 352 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 2: budget planner. 353 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 1: It's good, Yeah, to download that. 354 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:54,240 Speaker 2: Budget planner spreadsheet and get out six months of credit 355 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:56,639 Speaker 2: card and debit card and expenses and put it into there. 356 00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:58,760 Speaker 2: Have a glass of wine, just take your time doing it. 357 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 2: But the value of understanding whether or not you've got 358 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 2: spare money to save or whether you've got commitments that 359 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 2: mean you can't take a risk, that's the first a 360 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:10,679 Speaker 2: deal goal. And then go back to that money Smart 361 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 2: website and start reading some of the articles on different 362 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:13,879 Speaker 2: things in there. 363 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 1: Okay, I mean we should tell listeners that the particular 364 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 1: attraction of the money Smart website is said, it's from 365 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 1: the government, it's from ask and it's something that Acik 366 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:25,440 Speaker 1: has done and stuck with and it's evolved and it 367 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 1: is damn good. So money Smart, which is money smart 368 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:33,440 Speaker 1: dot gov dot au, the ACIIC website where whatever else 369 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:35,639 Speaker 1: is going on at that website and whatever is the 370 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:40,199 Speaker 1: nature or the articulation of ideas And initially, if you 371 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 1: like basic elementary investment ideas and protections for you, it 372 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:50,679 Speaker 1: is from the government and they are not selling anything. 373 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:53,240 Speaker 2: And then move on from there when you're ready to 374 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:55,920 Speaker 2: start learning about investing. Then if you want to know 375 00:18:55,960 --> 00:19:02,400 Speaker 2: about shares and listed products, the ASEX have courses on shares, ETFs, 376 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:06,680 Speaker 2: bonds and they're all split down into nice little short 377 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:10,359 Speaker 2: modules of about ten to fifteen minutes each, really easy 378 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 2: to understand. If you're interested in SMSF, the ATO have 379 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 2: a set of about twenty six little two to three 380 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 2: minute videos on every aspect of running an SMSF. And 381 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:24,120 Speaker 2: they've also now just issued a course. The course, I'm 382 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 2: afraid is not what I expected. It's they've designed it 383 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:29,639 Speaker 2: as the one to punish people who broke the rules 384 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:30,520 Speaker 2: and force. 385 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 1: Them to read it, so they spend all their time 386 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:35,200 Speaker 1: thinking of telling you what not to do. 387 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, it's just it's very boring. It's all written, 388 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:41,879 Speaker 2: whereas those videos were excellent. So I would start with 389 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:44,440 Speaker 2: the videos and then move to the thing, and then 390 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 2: just start going. If you're interested in something specific, go 391 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:51,440 Speaker 2: onto a forum maybe on Facebook or somewhere that's talking 392 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:54,959 Speaker 2: about those forget about what they're recommending on there. Listen 393 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:58,679 Speaker 2: look for what people say where they learned from. You know, 394 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:01,440 Speaker 2: they if they the course they did or a book 395 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 2: that they read. And that's why I go back to 396 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 2: that money Smart. I know a lot of people love 397 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,120 Speaker 2: Scott Papes Pare for the Investor and things like that. 398 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:10,119 Speaker 2: I believe now he might be doing a lot of 399 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:15,360 Speaker 2: work with money Smart. So you're looking for your places 400 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,480 Speaker 2: where you're getting educational content and no one's trying to 401 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 2: sell you anything. Like as a financial advisor, I'm not 402 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,919 Speaker 2: licensed to sell property or to advise on property. But 403 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:27,720 Speaker 2: because I do SMSFS, I've got a whole section on 404 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 2: my SMSF coach, So I have fifteen different articles on 405 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:34,159 Speaker 2: everything to do with property in an SMSF purely because 406 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:36,200 Speaker 2: if I have someone who comes to me and wants 407 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 2: to know whether it's right for them, I want them 408 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 2: to be educated about it and know the risks and 409 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:43,359 Speaker 2: know what they can do before they commit to doing 410 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:44,120 Speaker 2: something like that. 411 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 1: Terrific Okay, yeah, yeah, Catherine, keep that in mind and 412 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 1: everyone keep that in mind. So I did like the 413 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:54,359 Speaker 1: ideas they're the money Smart okay, which is on by ASIC, 414 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: which is own by the government, as the sort of 415 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 1: elementary protect yourself because you've got to protect first for 416 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:02,960 Speaker 1: do anything. I think that's a very well good way. 417 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 1: In Liam, the ATO, the Australian Tax Office on this 418 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 1: is on super and on SMS in particular, as Liam 419 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:14,639 Speaker 1: says that I imagine the weakness of the ATO delivery of 420 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 1: information is that they're so concentrated on what you're not 421 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 1: allowed to do they might forget to tell you what 422 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:22,880 Speaker 1: you can do. That's because they are the regulator as well. 423 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 1: But anyway, it is the government rather than someone's selling something. 424 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 1: You mentioned the AX, which is a course a listed company, 425 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:32,360 Speaker 1: but nonetheless, traditionally it was very strong on education, used 426 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 1: to be very good. I went through a patch where 427 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 1: they were where they weren't very good, and I think 428 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:40,880 Speaker 1: they definitely have revived considerably the AX. And it's interesting 429 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 1: to hear that they have those short videos, courses and modules. 430 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 1: So that's another place you could look, and I would 431 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 1: trust them on that issue of education and education alone 432 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:52,520 Speaker 1: very good. So hopefully that's a start, Catherine. I mean, yes, 433 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 1: there's books, Yes, there are courses, extreame. I think the 434 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 1: talking off the cuff here. Scariest thing I see in 435 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:03,880 Speaker 1: terms of people getting to know investing is people who 436 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 1: don't know anything starting into something ridiculously elaborate, like trading 437 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:12,120 Speaker 1: CFOs or warrants or options. As if you could walk 438 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 1: off the street and do that. I mean, I'm doing 439 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:17,400 Speaker 1: this for thirty thirty years, and I would be very 440 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 1: and I'm qualified as a security advisor. I still wouldn't 441 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: do it that way. So so let me just put 442 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 1: that on the table or yes, thank you Catherine. Okay, 443 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:28,440 Speaker 1: a question from Brett there. 444 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 2: Liam, Yeah, I'll read this one. Ut I have an 445 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 2: internal debate on continuing my financial advisor, who currently manages 446 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 2: my portfolio of three hundred and ninety thousand. I've worked 447 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:40,639 Speaker 2: out I can do it myself using index funds and 448 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:44,120 Speaker 2: morning Star services for tracking in re search, saving one 449 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 2: point zero five in fees. My main concern is my 450 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:50,120 Speaker 2: own time. I work more than fifty hours a week 451 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:52,440 Speaker 2: in my current job, and with kids, I'm not sure 452 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:55,159 Speaker 2: I can devote enough time to manage the portfolio successfully. 453 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 2: How much time should I expect to set aside each 454 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 2: week to manage this myself. That goes back to what 455 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:04,119 Speaker 2: he mentioned about moving to index funds and using some 456 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,200 Speaker 2: morning start to manage is your portfolio or the research 457 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 2: on it. It's whether he is he going to start trading, 458 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 2: which you've just mentioned is a really hard thing to do. 459 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 1: How active is he or is he going. 460 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 2: To choose some decent diversified index funds and maybe some 461 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 2: satellite funds and some individual stocks and just you know, 462 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 2: keep an eye on them, but not be looking to 463 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 2: flip them every time, you know, the market moves, so 464 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:32,679 Speaker 2: you know, if he sets it up properly, be aware 465 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 2: that I would not do this with just individual shares themselves. 466 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,280 Speaker 2: I would be using index funds or managed funds. You 467 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:41,359 Speaker 2: could set them up and the most you would have 468 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 2: to do is want to two hours a week, and 469 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:45,399 Speaker 2: most of that would be reading about what's happening in 470 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 2: the world and understanding what's happened in the world, Even 471 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,160 Speaker 2: something as simple as watching Alan Coler on the seven 472 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 2: o'clock news to understand what's going on and the effect 473 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:55,639 Speaker 2: on your portfolio. So and it may be something that 474 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 2: he does as a bit of downtime for himself from 475 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,880 Speaker 2: the from working the kids. But really it comes back 476 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,480 Speaker 2: to that, why are you doing it if you think 477 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:08,719 Speaker 2: you can trade and beat the market? I'd say, because 478 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,359 Speaker 2: you're busy gonna It's gonna end up being one of 479 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 2: those things that falls in the background. You'll have gone 480 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 2: into some stupid stock that you had great somebody said 481 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:19,680 Speaker 2: as a great outlook, and then you go back and 482 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:21,359 Speaker 2: look at it two months later and you've lost sixty 483 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 2: percent of your mind. 484 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:23,600 Speaker 1: Sir, you didn't look at it for a month and 485 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:28,400 Speaker 1: you said, what on earth, Oh, what's going on? Fifty percent? Yes, okay, Brett. 486 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:30,400 Speaker 1: So I hope you hear that. I would just add 487 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 1: one thing about morning Star, and I like morning Star 488 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 1: and I have a lot of respect from morning Star. However, 489 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:41,120 Speaker 1: I would tell you that, you know, no researcher is perfect, 490 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:46,440 Speaker 1: and their analysis is, in my experience, it's a heavily 491 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 1: it's heavily quant it's heavily numbers based. And often I 492 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 1: see sometimes this stuff makes perfect sense, and sometimes I 493 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:58,480 Speaker 1: see they have a stock recommended and I say, oh God, 494 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 1: how could you recommend that, but they're working entirely on 495 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 1: the numbers, and the numbers might well be very interesting, 496 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,199 Speaker 1: but I might be familiar with the company and the 497 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 1: people and the history of that particular company, and it 498 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:17,639 Speaker 1: will completely change my view. So just keep that in 499 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,639 Speaker 1: mind about that sort of thing. Research. It's a straight 500 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:21,439 Speaker 1: quand research. 501 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 2: Yeah. One thing to mention there, James, is whichever broker 502 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,080 Speaker 2: or online trading platform you're using, normally they'll have a 503 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:31,680 Speaker 2: research and a news section for each stock, a lot 504 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 2: of the better ones. They'll also have a consensus section, 505 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 2: which shows you what all the brokers are thinking about it. 506 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,400 Speaker 2: They may not name the brokers, see that all look, 507 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 2: seven brokers have it as a hold, two have it 508 00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:45,879 Speaker 2: as a strong buy, and one has it as a 509 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,160 Speaker 2: strong sell. That gives you an idea that, yes, it's 510 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,680 Speaker 2: probably not a bad one to get into, and then 511 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 2: you could do a bit more research and try and 512 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 2: find out why a few of them are recommending it. 513 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 2: Really well. But if you suddenly find a morning starts 514 00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 2: recommending something and six other brokers are saying sell, that's fine. 515 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:06,159 Speaker 2: So that's your safety blanket to check, you know, is 516 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 2: the thinking that of the research house I'm using, is 517 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 2: it way out of whack with what the market thinks. 518 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:14,879 Speaker 1: And to be fair, they are not brokers in the 519 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:16,840 Speaker 1: sense they're not they're raising money for anybody, so you 520 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,440 Speaker 1: don't have any of those complications with morning Star. Wars 521 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 1: is a very good thing. They're doing some very good work. 522 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 1: I will put that down. But I personally have an 523 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:29,439 Speaker 1: observation that sometimes there's almost a certain myopic aspect to 524 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,360 Speaker 1: the work which is so heavily based on numbers and 525 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 1: not what's going on around that particular stock. That's just 526 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,440 Speaker 1: something you see sometimes with all sorts of people, including 527 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,239 Speaker 1: some fund managers to who are again good, but have 528 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 1: that issue that completely believe the numbers and the other 529 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,479 Speaker 1: thing is that the numbers are not true. I give 530 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,840 Speaker 1: the companies bullsheitting on the numbers. Well you know, I'm sorry, 531 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,680 Speaker 1: but the whole estimation goes out the window. Okay, we'll 532 00:26:53,720 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 1: take short break back in a moment. Hello and welcome 533 00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:06,640 Speaker 1: back to The Australian's Money Puzzle podcast. James Kirby talking 534 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:10,440 Speaker 1: to Liam Short of the Sonas Group. Sonas Group. He's 535 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 1: a financial advisor regular on the show. So I'll just 536 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:15,880 Speaker 1: start with the one from Ranjeev, who says I would 537 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:17,480 Speaker 1: appreciate it if you could send me the list of 538 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:22,080 Speaker 1: top financial advisors published by the Australian. Yes, well, now, Rangjiev, 539 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 1: I can't do that, but I can only point you 540 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 1: to to how that comes out. So that's the Baron's 541 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,400 Speaker 1: list of the top one hundred and fifty advisor which 542 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,720 Speaker 1: is put together by the Australian in conjunction with Barons 543 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 1: of New York every year. If you're really quick and clever, 544 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 1: I would say to any listener, it's a great list 545 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 1: worth getting, and you could just buy the magazine on 546 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 1: the day, which is in September every year it comes out. 547 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,800 Speaker 1: But if you miss the magazine in paper, then the 548 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:51,199 Speaker 1: only way to see that list in its entirety one 549 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty advisors is to go onto the Australian 550 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 1: and to subscribe. Nothing is free. I'm afraid someone has 551 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,679 Speaker 1: to pay somewhere for all this. So that's how it goes, 552 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:04,199 Speaker 1: all right for tax, Randjiev, And hopefully that would be 553 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 1: useful to you when you do that, all right? Question 554 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:08,200 Speaker 1: from Bruce Liam. 555 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:12,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, so, Bruce asks, I always enjoy your too weekly podcast, 556 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 2: but something that stirs me up every time that I 557 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:16,640 Speaker 2: hear you say it is that a person can only 558 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 2: have a maximum of one point nine million in their 559 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:22,920 Speaker 2: superannuation tax free pension phase account. That is not true. 560 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:25,440 Speaker 2: So that's what he's saying, And what is true is 561 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 2: that you can only start a pension with one point 562 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,159 Speaker 2: nine and they can, which you know it's correct on 563 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 2: that point. It's called a transfer balance cap, and that's 564 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,639 Speaker 2: the maximum amount that you can move from accumulation to 565 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 2: pension phase to start a pension. And at the moment 566 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,200 Speaker 2: that's one point nine million, probably going to go up 567 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 2: to two million on the first of July. But yes, 568 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 2: if it grows and let's say you earn seven percent 569 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 2: and you're only taking four percent pension, yes your balance 570 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 2: can go up. So that's not an issue. One of 571 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 2: the catches that he probably you've probably been talking about 572 00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 2: is there's also called a total superbalance. Once your balance 573 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 2: and super hits one point nine million, you can no 574 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 2: longer put any more non concessional amounts into your super. 575 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,160 Speaker 2: You can only do the thirty thousand concessional each year. 576 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 2: So there are two different limits, but unfortunes are set 577 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 2: at the same amounts and they cause a lot of confusion. 578 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,600 Speaker 2: But you can only put a maximum of one point 579 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 2: nine in before you're stopped pulling any voluntary contributions, and 580 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 2: you can only start a pension with a maximum of 581 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 2: one point nine million at the moment. So that answers 582 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 2: the first part of his question. 583 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:33,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, so you can read the second part in the moment. 584 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 1: I might just add it for Bruce and everyone else 585 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 1: on this one. The Super arrangements, as I so often mentioned, 586 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 1: are ridiculously absurdly complex, often contradictory, and it's just a 587 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 1: patchwork quid that's been designed over the year, over the years, 588 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:54,880 Speaker 1: and people keep getting ideas to add and subtract to it, 589 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,480 Speaker 1: and it's just ridiculous. It's like learning another language. I 590 00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:00,440 Speaker 1: have learned the language as many people have need to, 591 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 1: but I can't explain the whole thing every time. That's 592 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:05,959 Speaker 1: the problem, Bruce. I mean, if I's been asked, if 593 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:09,120 Speaker 1: I give the proper answer, the full comprehensive answer to 594 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 1: every question on Super, honestly, everyone would just fall asleep, 595 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 1: they'd walk away, and no one would listen to the show. 596 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 1: So we use this sort of shorthand, like one point 597 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 1: nine is the most you can have in super before 598 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:25,120 Speaker 1: you start paying tax. One point we should say one 599 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,719 Speaker 1: point nine is the most you can have and your 600 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 1: transfer balance when you speak, when you move from miccuing 601 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,480 Speaker 1: relation to the pension, as Liam just said, and then 602 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 1: from then on it actually can get bigger. So yes, 603 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 1: you can have, over the fullness of time more than 604 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 1: one point nine as it grows. Yes you can, but. 605 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 2: We just can't. 606 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:46,720 Speaker 1: It's just it's impractical for commentators like myself to spell 607 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:50,160 Speaker 1: that out each time. So so that's the explanation. I 608 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 1: hope it's good enough for you, all right. The rest 609 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,480 Speaker 1: of that question from Bruce Liam, if you would. 610 00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:57,760 Speaker 2: Yes, he says, also, yes, perhaps AUSSI shares might have 611 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:01,280 Speaker 2: had less favorable in these recent years compared with US shares, 612 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,480 Speaker 2: but I also recall how around year two thousand, US 613 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 2: shares were not doing as well as Aussie shares, and 614 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 2: I reasoned at the time that Ozzie shares would always 615 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,040 Speaker 2: do okay because all the money that lands on our 616 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,520 Speaker 2: superannuation fund managers desks every day and which they need 617 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,600 Speaker 2: to do something with like buying Aussie shares. Anyway, so 618 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:21,480 Speaker 2: may I suggest that you add some nuance when you 619 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 2: tell listeners about this so again he's right. Two thousand 620 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,920 Speaker 2: was a very volatile time for US stocks, but that's 621 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:33,960 Speaker 2: because there was opportunities in the tech stocks at those 622 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,959 Speaker 2: times it was the tech bubble. There was no access 623 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 2: in Australia to any of those opportunities. So in the 624 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 2: run up to it, international shares were doing brilliantly because 625 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:44,960 Speaker 2: they were invested in these shares, But there was a risk, 626 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 2: And that's why you've always got to look at the 627 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 2: risk of what you're getting yourself into. At the moment, 628 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:53,360 Speaker 2: you'd be really worried about getting into AI is such 629 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 2: a good run, you'd be worried about you'd be worried 630 00:31:56,120 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 2: about putting more money into international tech stocks. But for 631 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 2: people who understand that area, have done their research, they 632 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 2: may be comfortable to do so. 633 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 1: Can I just do you think there's any merit in 634 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,880 Speaker 1: Bluth's line of thinking that there's so much money in 635 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 1: the superinnuation funds that Australian shares will be okay because 636 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:18,840 Speaker 1: they need to do something with it. Is there is 637 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:20,960 Speaker 1: that a reliable way of not anymore? 638 00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 2: Because you look at Australian Super it's got its own 639 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,080 Speaker 2: office in New York and London. Now same with a 640 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:29,920 Speaker 2: lot of the other companies. Probably sixty to seventy five 641 00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 2: percent of every dollar that comes in in super now 642 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:36,640 Speaker 2: is going overseas in either international bonds, international government bonds, 643 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:40,560 Speaker 2: international shares, infrastructure. Look at the amount of you know, 644 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,840 Speaker 2: international investments and that all of these super funds are 645 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:48,280 Speaker 2: involved in nowadays. So the problem in Australia, I feel 646 00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 2: is yes it everyone feels it's fairly secure because you know, 647 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,080 Speaker 2: you've got thirty two percent in banks and insurances in 648 00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:59,120 Speaker 2: our index, you've got our long term big resource stock companies. 649 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,840 Speaker 2: But that's probably our biggest risk is that we're such 650 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:07,920 Speaker 2: a focused, small in a small, fun country that if 651 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 2: one or two sectors take a hit, it can really 652 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:13,240 Speaker 2: put Australia shares on in the bad books. 653 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:15,600 Speaker 1: Half half the market it is two sectors, and half 654 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,920 Speaker 1: the market is four banks and three miners. Really yeah, 655 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,400 Speaker 1: and banks and miners are forty five percent or. 656 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,240 Speaker 2: So of the market cap. And one of the things 657 00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:26,840 Speaker 2: I'm really talking to my clients about is talk to 658 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,640 Speaker 2: your children and understand the next generation and their loyalty 659 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,840 Speaker 2: to the banks. Okay, they have not grown up with 660 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 2: A and Z and CBA and all of those being 661 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 2: in their ear they will move for a five dollars 662 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 2: voucher or something exciting that's offered free as part of 663 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,040 Speaker 2: an app to a company. When they're going for a mortgage, 664 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,720 Speaker 2: they're going to a mortgage broker. I think seventy two 665 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,160 Speaker 2: percent of loans now are done to mortgage brokers. So 666 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 2: they're not having contact, well, they can't even have contact 667 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,200 Speaker 2: with their bank manager because there is no bank manager 668 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:57,800 Speaker 2: in the local branch anymore and they've got no authority. 669 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,880 Speaker 2: So you know, all big four banks at the moment, 670 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,760 Speaker 2: I really worry about who is going to be our 671 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,839 Speaker 2: big four banks in ten years time, because it's who 672 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,440 Speaker 2: has your data? Is the one that's going to be 673 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:12,840 Speaker 2: selling to you and the one that you're going to 674 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:17,320 Speaker 2: be because they'll be sending messages to you and texts 675 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,960 Speaker 2: and emails and you know, three your searches, they will 676 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,080 Speaker 2: be targeting you. And this is the Amazon banks and 677 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:27,279 Speaker 2: the Apple banks and the paypals, and they have so 678 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,400 Speaker 2: much information. And look, I know our own banks have 679 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,360 Speaker 2: that information from the FBOs machines and things like that. 680 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:37,040 Speaker 2: And I've seen CommonWell Banks computer studio where they can 681 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:40,080 Speaker 2: see when people are spending in different suburbs at different times. 682 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:43,279 Speaker 2: But it's once you step up to the information that 683 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:47,279 Speaker 2: Apple has from people's Apple Pay and iPhones and their searches. 684 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:49,719 Speaker 2: You know, I know in the US at the moment, 685 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,480 Speaker 2: Apple have their savings account that they've opened up and 686 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:56,440 Speaker 2: are letting people invest. It's paying about one to one 687 00:34:56,440 --> 00:35:00,239 Speaker 2: point five percent above the normal big bank right, So 688 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:00,640 Speaker 2: then you. 689 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:02,359 Speaker 1: Just wouldn't you just eat that up if you could 690 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:04,640 Speaker 1: have that. I mean, I'm on the phone all day, 691 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,000 Speaker 1: I use it for all my payments basically, and if 692 00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:10,400 Speaker 1: I was getting one and a half percent above above 693 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:11,359 Speaker 1: the official rate. 694 00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:14,520 Speaker 2: They're targeting the people they want as customers because they've 695 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:18,160 Speaker 2: seen it their spend history, and so I do worry 696 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:19,759 Speaker 2: about who's going to be the big banks in ten 697 00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:20,279 Speaker 2: years time. 698 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,799 Speaker 1: M M okay, interesting and that and that in some 699 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,880 Speaker 1: way makes you feel more comfortable in taking some profit 700 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,000 Speaker 1: off your com bank shares that went up fifty percent 701 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 1: last exactly, Okay, terrific. Hey, we might leave it at that, 702 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:36,920 Speaker 1: Liam for today. Thank you very much, Liam of Sona's Group. 703 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,040 Speaker 2: No worries. Always enjoy James. 704 00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:42,279 Speaker 1: I always enjoy having you on, Liam, and thank you 705 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:46,439 Speaker 1: for listening. And remember We're wide open for some more 706 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,960 Speaker 1: very clever questions, like the ones we had today the 707 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:53,399 Speaker 1: money puzzle at the Australian dot com dot au. Talk 708 00:35:53,400 --> 00:36:09,880 Speaker 1: to you soon, h