1 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business Interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. 2 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:11,360 Speaker 1: Life three sixty is one of the most interesting companies 3 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:15,320 Speaker 1: on the ASX. It describes itself as Australia's number one 4 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: family safety and location sharing app. Life three sixty years 5 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:22,600 Speaker 1: is a subscription model, starting with a free tier and 6 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:24,320 Speaker 1: going all the way up to two hundred and fifty 7 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: dollars per year. Last month, Life three sixty reported thirty 8 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:30,480 Speaker 1: three percent increase in total fourth quarter revenue to a 9 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:33,560 Speaker 1: record one hundred and fifteen point five million US dollars. 10 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 1: Total subscription revenue was up thirty two percent. Chris Hull's 11 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 1: co founder and CEO of Life three sixty, spoke with 12 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 1: Juliet Sally at Osby's about the results, but also about 13 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: the future, the lofty goals for the company, how it 14 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: competes with Apple and Google, the plans to expand into 15 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: pets and the seniors market. As I said, this is 16 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 1: one of the most interesting companies on the AX. This 17 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 1: interview comes courtesy of our partnership with Osby's, the country's 18 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: leading provider of live and on demand video of the 19 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:04,400 Speaker 1: latest news in Australian business markets, economy, and startups sign 20 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:07,679 Speaker 1: up for free at Osby's dot com dot au. Chris 21 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:10,919 Speaker 1: Hull's started by looking at the results for the quarter. 22 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:17,040 Speaker 2: So we had our one of our best everquorders. 23 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 3: Our core indicator of our health is our global MU base, 24 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:24,400 Speaker 3: and we had huge traction internationally. We are now over 25 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 3: eighty million monthly active users and we're also very excited 26 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 3: to announce our pet tracking launch which is coming up 27 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 3: this year, which is why I have the dog in 28 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 3: the background. So we're excited on all fronts, moving ahead 29 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 3: and advertising great results on revenue, and very excited about 30 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:39,319 Speaker 3: the new verticals we're about to enter. 31 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 4: Yeah, we love seeing Dolores, your dog in the background there, Chris, 32 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 4: so tell us about this new area you're going into. 33 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 3: So the vision of Light three sixty is how do 34 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 3: we protect families across all life stages. And that's beyond people, 35 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 3: it's pets, it's things, it's everything you worry about. So 36 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 3: since we acquired Tyle, we have a lot of people 37 00:01:56,920 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 3: putting Bluetooth tags on their dogs and we're ready to 38 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 3: level that up with GPS capability as a lost pet 39 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 3: finder network and that we'll even go into seniors in 40 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 3: twenty twenty six. We've made some pretty cool product announcements today. 41 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 4: Some analysts have questioned how you're going to remain to 42 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 4: grow at the levels that you are and where you're 43 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 4: going to boost revenue. I know you've acquired the Fantics 44 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:18,679 Speaker 4: platform to boost your AD business. Just tell us where 45 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:20,079 Speaker 4: you're at with that growth. 46 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 3: Sure, so we're in the early days of advertising, but 47 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 3: I do believe that we have a real potential for 48 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 3: our indirect revenue, which includes advertising data, partnerships, things like 49 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 3: insurance offers, eventually that it could actually beat our subscription 50 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:38,080 Speaker 3: revenue because only about one in eight of our customers 51 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 3: pay us in the US, So if we have one 52 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:42,640 Speaker 3: eighth the revenue on a per user basis, we have 53 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 3: matched what we're getting from the overall subscription business. 54 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 2: So that's going to be a long march to doing that. 55 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 3: But we have this very very unique first party location 56 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 3: data set that nobody else has, and the Fantas acquisitions 57 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 3: helping accelerate our move into targeting and attribution and using 58 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:00,200 Speaker 3: AI to figure out where people are going and what 59 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 3: they're doing, what audience segments they're in. How do we 60 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:05,959 Speaker 3: track if an AD was effective? And it's really hard 61 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 3: to do that when you don't have all the data, 62 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 3: and that is something that we are in a very 63 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 3: unique position to do. 64 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:13,360 Speaker 4: So it's also fantics the acquisition, as I mentioned, to 65 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:16,639 Speaker 4: boost your ad business. What further growth in advertising you 66 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:18,920 Speaker 4: you expecting to boost your bottom line? 67 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 3: Well, as we get smarter and smarter, what we offer 68 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 3: is going to look less and less like an AD. 69 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 3: We do have our banners, but those really are just 70 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 3: our training wheels. A partnership we launched last year is 71 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 3: one with Uber. When you landed at New Airport, we 72 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 3: actually say hey, Chris, welcome to CFO. 73 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 2: Do you want Nuber? 74 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 3: And doesn't feel like an AD because you actually need 75 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 3: a Nuber at that point in time. Maybe you're an 76 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 3: Uber customer and they want to make sure you don't 77 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 3: go to lift. That push is going to help Uber. 78 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 3: Maybe you don't have a ride sharing app and you're 79 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 3: not sure which one to get. You'll get that push 80 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 3: and you'll download it and as a customer will make 81 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 3: you feel like you're getting really good value in it. 82 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 3: Cantine with promos like a discounted ride and so that's 83 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 3: live now and being able to point to that has 84 00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 3: been great for discussions with other advertisers they see and 85 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 3: it just make some much. So imagine we no shops, 86 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 3: you've been to a lot, we could put an offer 87 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 3: on the map, or we could target you to go 88 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 3: with a competitor to go to another store and give 89 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 3: you an offer there. So over time you're going to 90 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 3: see the ads feel less and less like banners and 91 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 3: much more like targeted offers, which you think are going 92 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:16,840 Speaker 3: to be much more powerful. 93 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 4: Can you talk us through your full year twenty five 94 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:23,280 Speaker 4: goals and what you're intending to say, particularly in growth 95 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:25,040 Speaker 4: of subscription revenue? 96 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 2: Sure? So subscription growth. 97 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 3: I don't have the exact breakout numbers now and want 98 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 3: to be careful about quoting guidance, but very substantial growth 99 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 3: and the consolidated revenue will be within a stone's throw 100 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:37,720 Speaker 3: of five hundred million. Not quite there, but it's a 101 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:41,359 Speaker 3: nice round number. We're targeting. Top line MU growth continue 102 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:44,480 Speaker 3: to grow, big focus in international, more of a contribution 103 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:49,360 Speaker 3: from advertising and data increase penetration and subscriptions around the world, 104 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 3: and then hardware that will likely stay flat because the 105 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:57,159 Speaker 3: emphasis is very much on driving subscriptions, not having hardware revenue, 106 00:04:57,360 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 3: and the pet tracking device will come out towards the 107 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:01,279 Speaker 3: end of the year, we'll be able to have some 108 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:03,720 Speaker 3: early signals, but the real revenue from that will come 109 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:04,839 Speaker 3: in twenty six and beyond. 110 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 4: What are you seeing from your paying circles business and 111 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 4: how much do you expect that to increase? 112 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 3: It's going to grow substantially, and a lot of that 113 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 3: is MAU is growing well. I mean, MAAU grows if 114 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 3: everything else stays the same. Subscriptions will grow in line 115 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 3: with that. But we're getting better at conversion, We're adding 116 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:28,040 Speaker 3: more value, the product's getting better, and international is very greenfield. 117 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 3: So we're in the very early days of that growth trajectory. 118 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 4: What do you say, Chris, to analysts that say they 119 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:37,159 Speaker 4: don't see why your business is going to survive when 120 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 4: you've got the likes of Apple iPhone and some Google 121 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 4: products as well doing a similar thing that are in 122 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:44,159 Speaker 4: built with those devices. 123 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 3: Sure, so a few things. Number One, we are focused 124 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 3: on families. We are not the one size fits all. 125 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 3: Apple provides a very generic utility layer, but they're not 126 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 3: going after our vertical. They're kind of a good enough 127 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:03,359 Speaker 3: product that everybody can use. They also are not cross platform, 128 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:08,039 Speaker 3: so Apple essentially does not make Android software and the 129 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 3: majority of the world is on Android phones. But despite that, 130 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 3: going back to this family point, we actually have higher 131 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 3: penetration where iOS is more prevalent, and Google seems to 132 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 3: have largely ignored the space. They have family link more 133 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 3: on screen monitoring, they have not gotten deep into location. 134 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 3: We really have been an overlook category and we're just 135 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 3: objectively a better product. So while we definitely pay attention 136 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:32,799 Speaker 3: to Apple historically they have helped by popularizing the category 137 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,599 Speaker 3: versus skimming users. We don't rest on our laurels, but 138 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 3: a lot of the focus with the products that I 139 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:41,480 Speaker 3: have mentioned is not just looking like a generic commodity. 140 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:43,359 Speaker 3: If you take air tags, they do have that and 141 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 3: a compete with us, but they explicitly say it's not 142 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 3: for pets, it's not for people. They really are trying 143 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 3: to do about things they're worried about stocking in ways 144 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:51,920 Speaker 3: that we think go a little bit far, so it 145 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 3: really undermines their ability to offer the products we think 146 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 3: are going to move the needle for our business. 147 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:00,360 Speaker 4: You've been one of the best performing stocks on the 148 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:03,680 Speaker 4: aspix over the past year, and indeed since you'll launch 149 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 4: as well. Chris, do you think that that kind of 150 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 4: growth of nearly two hundred percent in your share price 151 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 4: can be achieved continually. 152 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 2: Over the long term. 153 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 3: Yes, I don't look at the share price in the 154 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 3: short term genuinely, between earnings. I don't even know what 155 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 3: it is, because what I tell our employees is if 156 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 3: the free core user base is growing, everything is going 157 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 3: to take care of itself. And while our stock price 158 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 3: is gyrated our MAU growth. I see the graph you're 159 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 3: putting up there. If you put our user growth, it's 160 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 3: been dead consistent. So we have done a very good 161 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 3: job of growing the base. And if you look at 162 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 3: our valuation relative to other companies with the same install base, 163 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 3: we're actually the kind of the It's not something for 164 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 3: us to be proud of. We are the thirteenth biggest 165 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 3: app in the US by DAU, and the companies around 166 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 3: us are they're the trillion dollar giants, the multi hundred 167 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 3: billion dollar giants. So if we succeed, we have a 168 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 3: lot of room to grow. And I think it's very 169 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 3: rare where you will find a product where the TAM 170 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 3: is hundreds of millions, if not billions of customers around 171 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 3: the globe. 172 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 4: Would you be bold enough to think that you could 173 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 4: be one day as big as the Mag seven. It 174 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 4: could become the Mag eight. 175 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 2: I think everyone could use us. 176 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 3: I feel there's a realistic chance this could be one 177 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 3: hundred billion dollar business. I'm not saying that's going to happen. 178 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 3: We have built a reputation of not drinking your own 179 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 3: kool aid, but I think there is a real chance 180 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 3: that we could get to that scale. And then, who knows, 181 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 3: nothing's more important than family. So if you think of 182 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 3: all the other services we get add on shore, I 183 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 3: think we have essentially unbounded upside. 184 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 2: But there are many many outcomes. 185 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 3: Where we're not one hundred billion or a trillion, which 186 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 3: will I think generate great return for shareholders. And while 187 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:41,200 Speaker 3: we're achieving our vision of giving peace of mind to 188 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:42,320 Speaker 3: families around the globe. 189 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 4: And would you say that you will always keep a 190 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:47,559 Speaker 4: portion of the app free or would it at one 191 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 4: point move to fully subscription. 192 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:53,080 Speaker 2: One hundred percent. The free app is our lifeline. 193 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:55,960 Speaker 3: We will eventually be a little bit more in harvest 194 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:58,440 Speaker 3: mode versus growth mode. You can look at many companies 195 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 3: as you're trying to grow. As long as that top 196 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:02,679 Speaker 3: line of users is growing, don't get in the way 197 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 3: of that. It's extremely short term thinking, but you can 198 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 3: going back to the MAC seven comparables, they have been 199 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 3: any more aggressive monetization, and many of them did not 200 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 3: do that at least until twenty thirty years into their journey. 201 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 2: So we're not there yet. 202 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 3: But part of what makes me extremely confident about driving 203 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 3: results on the bottom line is that when top line 204 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 3: does inevitably slow down at some point in time, we 205 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 3: have so much ability to drive up revenue and profits. 206 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 1: That's Chris Hale's co founder and CEO of Life three 207 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:38,560 Speaker 1: sixty on Osby's. Sign up at Osby's dot com dot au. 208 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:41,679 Speaker 1: It's free. This is the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. 209 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:43,720 Speaker 1: Join us every morning for the full episode of Fear 210 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: and Greed daily business news for people who make their 211 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:51,319 Speaker 1: own decisions. I'm Shanelma. Enjoy your day.