WEBVTT - The '24-carat f*ckwit' who became Nine's golden boy

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<v Speaker 1>After two decades at nine It's post boy, Karl Stefanovic

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<v Speaker 1>has left the building, and for the first time, people

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<v Speaker 1>who worked with him are speaking out.

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<v Speaker 2>I spoke to about twenty different people who had known

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<v Speaker 2>and worked with Karl over twenty six years.

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<v Speaker 1>Journalist Tina Quinn has been asking questions about Stefanovic's rise

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<v Speaker 1>at the network and what really prompted his podcast pivot.

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<v Speaker 2>I was really trying to work out, I guess how

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<v Speaker 2>it had gotten to this, you know, what exactly had happened,

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<v Speaker 2>This man that had once called Lori Oaks his great hero,

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<v Speaker 2>how had it come to this?

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<v Speaker 1>And what she found was a surprising number of people

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<v Speaker 1>willing to be frank about their views on working with him.

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<v Speaker 2>As I continued to go on, it felt like roadblocks

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<v Speaker 2>of people that weren't really at first wanting to talk,

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<v Speaker 2>but then completely opened up to me. And then by

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<v Speaker 2>the end, Yeah, it was just this incredible snowball.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Ruby Jones and you're listening to seven AM today,

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<v Speaker 1>a host of Fourth Estate on tw SCR and Qriike

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<v Speaker 1>contributor Tina Quinn on Karl Stefanovic's rise, what his former

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<v Speaker 1>colleagues really think and what his future outside the network

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<v Speaker 1>will look like.

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<v Speaker 3>It's Monday, July.

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<v Speaker 1>Twenty Tina, to begin with, in your conversations with all

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<v Speaker 1>of these insiders at nine, what impression were you left

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<v Speaker 1>with of Karl Stefanovic's place at the network before his exit?

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<v Speaker 2>How much sway did he have and how was he

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<v Speaker 2>seen well? Karl Stefanovic was the Today Show and was nine.

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<v Speaker 2>That's how many people described him to me. The last

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<v Speaker 2>thing that guests or visitors would see as they entered

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<v Speaker 2>the soundstage of the Today Show at North Sydney was

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<v Speaker 2>this large empot using portrait of Carl, which I thought

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<v Speaker 2>was really interesting.

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<v Speaker 3>It's of Carl.

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<v Speaker 2>He's walking, He's sort of in silhouette and he's walking

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<v Speaker 2>onto the sound stage, almost like walking into his domain,

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<v Speaker 2>his kingdom. He'd been with the program for twenty one

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<v Speaker 2>years and had outlived all eight of his female co hosts.

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<v Speaker 2>He was someone that was seen as almost untouchable. It

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<v Speaker 2>didn't matter how many scandals there had been, how many controversies,

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<v Speaker 2>the network continued to back him no matter what, and

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<v Speaker 2>I think people they're incredibly shocked that that era has

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<v Speaker 2>come to an end. He was described as the network's

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<v Speaker 2>Golden Boy, and.

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<v Speaker 1>Before he kind of became the Karl Sevanovic of the

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<v Speaker 1>Today Show, this sort of big protected figure at nine.

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<v Speaker 1>What do people tell you about what he was like

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<v Speaker 1>as a young reporter.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean that was quite interesting in itself, because,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I spoke to his first newsroom director at nine, Risbon.

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<v Speaker 2>This is a guy named Lee Anderson. He said he

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<v Speaker 2>was one of the most talented reporters I'd ever come across,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, very charismatic. But I also spoke to other producers,

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<v Speaker 2>more junior in that newsroom who were less than glowing,

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<v Speaker 2>who said that he was quite lazy. That was a

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<v Speaker 2>word that consistently came up across a lot of my reporting.

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<v Speaker 2>He was very good at getting other people to do

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<v Speaker 2>things for him. He arrived when he liked knowing that

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<v Speaker 2>as quote, some Lackey producer would have you written his.

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<v Speaker 3>Work for him.

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<v Speaker 2>But he was very good even back then at sucking

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<v Speaker 2>up to the right people. The exacts, although I thought

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<v Speaker 2>it was really interesting. There was one particular news and

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<v Speaker 2>Current Affairs director who was visiting Brisbane and there was

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<v Speaker 2>an afterwork drinks you know, he said, I just heard

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<v Speaker 2>this voice behind me, just really just talking himself up

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<v Speaker 2>to the point of tedium, and I just you know,

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<v Speaker 2>after about five minutes of listening to his dissertation on

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<v Speaker 2>why he was so wonderful and excellent, I sort of

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<v Speaker 2>turned around to Lee Anderson, the news director, and said,

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<v Speaker 2>who the hell's this blow? And Li said, oh, this

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<v Speaker 2>is our new boy Wonder, And that's when he said, well,

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<v Speaker 2>he might be your boy Wonder, but he's a twenty

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<v Speaker 2>four Carrent fuck wit. So you know there were people

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<v Speaker 2>even back then that were less than impressed.

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<v Speaker 1>So Carl his success becomes very entwined with the Today Show.

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<v Speaker 1>And that is despite a number of scandals that might

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<v Speaker 1>have affected the career of a different presenter, things like

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<v Speaker 1>when he turned up seeming to still be drunk after

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<v Speaker 1>the logis.

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<v Speaker 3>That's one example.

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<v Speaker 4>I didn't feel drunk when I work up the next morning,

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<v Speaker 4>Otherwise I would not have gone on here. Now, I

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<v Speaker 4>might like to think that I'm professional enough to have

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<v Speaker 4>made that decision that clearly, from the vision that I've seen,

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<v Speaker 4>I wasn't at my best.

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<v Speaker 1>All of these things that happened, though they didn't damage him,

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<v Speaker 1>they kind of seemed to just feed into his brand.

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<v Speaker 3>It's going to ask Arctic.

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<v Speaker 5>Who's going to be manning seven eleven's today. I'm not

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<v Speaker 5>sure about who's going to be matting seven eleven, but

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<v Speaker 5>you might have to look at you might have to

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<v Speaker 5>look at Cena Link as well.

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<v Speaker 3>I think.

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<v Speaker 1>Tell me about why that was and what the effect

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<v Speaker 1>of that was.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, you know, you say it might have had

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<v Speaker 2>a different effect on a different broadcaster, especially had it

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<v Speaker 2>been a female one. I mean if Lisa Wilkinson was

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<v Speaker 2>his co host at the time, and imagine if Lisa Wilkinson,

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<v Speaker 2>married mother of three, turned up drunk to work on air,

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<v Speaker 2>I think it would have been received very differently.

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<v Speaker 3>Kyl had some very powerful backers.

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<v Speaker 2>That is something I kept hearing time and time again,

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<v Speaker 2>most notably David Ginjel who was at one time the

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<v Speaker 2>CEO of Nine. You know, people like Paul Fenn, the

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<v Speaker 2>Sydney News director, James Packer, the son of Kerry Packer

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<v Speaker 2>who owned the network, Alan Jones, who wasn't at nine

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<v Speaker 2>but was a very powerful Sydney media presence who loaned

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<v Speaker 2>him it basically gave him the deposit.

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<v Speaker 3>For his first house.

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<v Speaker 2>So very powerful people in his corner who continued to

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<v Speaker 2>back him. I think what was really noticeable to me.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, he was brought on to replace Steve Liebman,

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<v Speaker 2>and when he started at the Today Show, he received

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<v Speaker 2>reviews that his on air performance was quite wooden, and

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<v Speaker 2>someone wrote that he was he seemed incapable of sort

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<v Speaker 2>of lighthearted banter on air, and you know, he was

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<v Speaker 2>not well received, but he was continually given leniency over

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<v Speaker 2>years and years of on air controversies and as you mentioned,

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<v Speaker 2>would have ended another broadcaster's career, certain comments about migrants

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<v Speaker 2>really inappropriate, in sensitive comments, all sorts of things that

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<v Speaker 2>took place.

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<v Speaker 5>Well, as we all know, I can be a complete tool, right, Well,

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<v Speaker 5>yesterday I was worse. I was an ignorant tool. When

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<v Speaker 5>I say ignorant, I truly meant.

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<v Speaker 1>And I kind of Okay. So you've got this seemingly

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<v Speaker 1>fairly untouchable presenter, with this lackable lark persona who after

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<v Speaker 1>a few years at least, is doing well with audiences.

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<v Speaker 1>Behind the scenes, perhaps a more complex picture of power

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<v Speaker 1>and ego. Were there any signs, though, of where Karl

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<v Speaker 1>Stefanovic was heading, any kind of early signs of what

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<v Speaker 1>we are now seeing and in his current reinvention.

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<v Speaker 2>Most of the people that I spoke to all agreed

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<v Speaker 2>that this was not an ideological pursuit of Karl's what

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<v Speaker 2>we're seeing with this podcast. In fact, when I asked

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<v Speaker 2>one source, someone who is still at nine and who

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<v Speaker 2>worked with Karl on and off for a number of years,

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<v Speaker 2>I said, the views that Carla's platforming on his podcast,

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<v Speaker 2>do you think they're his owner? They used that he

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<v Speaker 2>has and shares and this person just laughed and just

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<v Speaker 2>won't know. I don't it's exactly what you think. This

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<v Speaker 2>is for clicks and the power, and he is very

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<v Speaker 2>much a product of the industry that made him, and

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<v Speaker 2>that industry is shape shifting and it is transforming in

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<v Speaker 2>front of him, and he can see the writing on

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<v Speaker 2>the wall, and he is trying to remake himself.

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<v Speaker 3>And this isn't really driven by ideology.

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<v Speaker 2>It's driven more by something that he sees will could

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<v Speaker 2>possibly work in this market, something that we've seen very

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<v Speaker 2>successfully done over in the United States, in the UK.

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<v Speaker 2>It's something that he's trying to bring here to Australia.

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<v Speaker 3>Coming up.

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<v Speaker 1>Can car survive without the production support that comes with

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<v Speaker 1>Breakfast TV.

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<v Speaker 5>I think it's important that I keep campaigning and I

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<v Speaker 5>keep driving forward with freedom of speech. If you don't

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<v Speaker 5>like the way I do an interview, then don't watch it.

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<v Speaker 5>It's my style, it's my show, and I.

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<v Speaker 1>Want to teote. Right from the very outset of his

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<v Speaker 1>podcast launch, there were things that Karl Stefanovick was doing

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<v Speaker 1>that were quite clearly putting him.

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<v Speaker 3>At odds with his colleagues.

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<v Speaker 1>So he had that friendly interview with Charlie TiO, for example,

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<v Speaker 1>who Kate McClymont did the series of investigations into. He

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<v Speaker 1>also waded into the Ben Robert Smith charges defending him

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<v Speaker 1>after his arrest. So how much tension do you think

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<v Speaker 1>all of that caused within Nine Huge?

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<v Speaker 2>You know, Nine spent millions and millions upon dollars defending

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<v Speaker 2>those investigations. The doggared committed investigative reporting that Nick McKenzie

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<v Speaker 2>and Chris Masters conducted over years upon years was extraordinary,

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<v Speaker 2>and the amount of money that Nine spent defending that.

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<v Speaker 3>Was not insignificant.

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<v Speaker 2>The same with Kate mcclimont, with Charlie Teo to have

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<v Speaker 2>one of its own stars.

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<v Speaker 3>And look, there's a conflict in there.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a real conflict in the fact that Nine and

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<v Speaker 2>Fairfax merged a number of years ago. Right, and there's

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<v Speaker 2>journalistic sensibilities that are conflicting there as well. It was

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<v Speaker 2>a huge conflict within nine because to have one of

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<v Speaker 2>its own big stars denigrading the work of people like

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<v Speaker 2>Kate mcclemont and Nick McKenzie and Chris Masters, it definitely

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<v Speaker 2>stoked conflicts and also nine's own reporters, like Channel nine,

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<v Speaker 2>the TV network itself, I think there were a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of reporters that felt they were sharing a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>concerns about the way people would perceive them because of

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<v Speaker 2>the views of one Carl, because I think they were

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<v Speaker 2>very concerned that it somehow took away the credibility from

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<v Speaker 2>their own reporting to have again this big network star

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<v Speaker 2>being able to go and platform people like anti vaxer

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<v Speaker 2>Pede Evans, Pauline Hanson, Barnaby Joyce. Then of course afar

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<v Speaker 2>right fascist who is on Australia's Terra Watchlan is not

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<v Speaker 2>allowed into this country. I'm talking about Tommy Robinson here.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that was something that was proving very anxiety

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<v Speaker 2>driving within nine's own stable.

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<v Speaker 5>I see on sky News UK Sky News important difference

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<v Speaker 5>that he's a threat to society.

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<v Speaker 1>Musk anyone who believes in free speech is affected their society,

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<v Speaker 1>because their society is about control. They want to control speech,

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<v Speaker 1>They want to control everything, every element of your life.

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<v Speaker 3>They want to control. That's their future, that's the Left future.

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<v Speaker 1>And obviously that's all led to him leaving the network.

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<v Speaker 1>How do you think it's going to go for him

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<v Speaker 1>from here? Because he's obviously you know, he's good at TV,

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<v Speaker 1>He's a gifted broadcaster. But while at nine and while

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<v Speaker 1>on Breakfast, he's got this huge production machine around him.

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<v Speaker 1>There's all these people who are paid to make him

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<v Speaker 1>sound good. So how do you think he will work

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<v Speaker 1>without all of that?

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<v Speaker 2>I think it will be well. Look, it will be

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<v Speaker 2>interesting to say something that a number of produce even

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<v Speaker 2>who were working up with him up until the present day,

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<v Speaker 2>consistently said they called him hard to produce for at

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<v Speaker 2>times because they were often doing the brunt of the

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<v Speaker 2>research and the work. He was often not across his breeze.

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<v Speaker 2>He was hard to get a hold of. They compared.

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<v Speaker 2>Some compared him to Lixa Wilkinson, who liked to be

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<v Speaker 2>She was seen as much more meticulous, She really liked

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<v Speaker 2>to be involved with stories. She was much more generous

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<v Speaker 2>with her time. Karl was not sometimes, as I said,

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<v Speaker 2>difficult to get a hold of, wouldn't respond to the

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<v Speaker 2>research that was provided for him, and he'd sort of

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<v Speaker 2>go on air and.

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<v Speaker 3>He'd wring it.

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<v Speaker 2>But that's easy to do when you've got a huge

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<v Speaker 2>production team. I mean, the Today Show is a huge production.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a lot of money behind it. I think people

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<v Speaker 2>would be surprised to know the number of producers that

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<v Speaker 2>they would have working on one particular show at any

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<v Speaker 2>given time. He doesn't have that on this podcast, and

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<v Speaker 2>I think he got into such strife interviewing someone like

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<v Speaker 2>Tommy Robinson because in some ways he didn't interview him.

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<v Speaker 2>There was a lot of backslapping and yeah mate, this

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<v Speaker 2>made and the sort of stuff that Carl has kind

0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:06.920
<v Speaker 2>of been able to get away with over his career

0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:11.120
<v Speaker 2>because those interviews were still peppered with what we were

0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:13.840
<v Speaker 2>seen as hard hitting questions that were written for him

0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:17.440
<v Speaker 2>by producers. There was a lot less of that in

0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:21.120
<v Speaker 2>that interview. I mean, there was no accountability at any

0:13:21.120 --> 0:13:24.640
<v Speaker 2>given point during that interview. Very strange from someone who

0:13:24.640 --> 0:13:28.000
<v Speaker 2>once named the great political journalist Laurry Oaks as his

0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:33.280
<v Speaker 2>great hero and inspiration in his LOGI speech in twenty eleven,

0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:38.120
<v Speaker 2>and so I think we're already seeing the result of

0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:42.920
<v Speaker 2>him having less support around him. If you watch any

0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:47.120
<v Speaker 2>of those interviews, they're not particularly enlightening and they're in

0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:50.920
<v Speaker 2>no way hard hitting. They're not the work of a

0:13:51.000 --> 0:13:54.000
<v Speaker 2>journalist that you would expect of someone like Carl who

0:13:54.200 --> 0:14:00.240
<v Speaker 2>fronted a leading breakfast show for over two decades. Story

0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:03.199
<v Speaker 2>telling about the level of talent he really does possess

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<v Speaker 2>in that area.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's funny. It's like his kind of grappling with

0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:12.800
<v Speaker 1>the tension between casting himself as this outsider and then

0:14:13.000 --> 0:14:15.520
<v Speaker 1>the reality of what that actually might mean for him

0:14:15.679 --> 0:14:18.079
<v Speaker 1>to be on the outside of the mainstream.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's always interesting hearing from these guys who

0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:25.160
<v Speaker 2>always claim that they've been silenced and they've been canceled.

0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:28.560
<v Speaker 2>You know, they still seem to have these very loud

0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:34.240
<v Speaker 2>microphones and podiums to talk about that from Tina, thank

0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:36.000
<v Speaker 2>you for your time, Ruby, Thank you.

0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:51.680
<v Speaker 1>Also in the news, the United States has launched fresh

0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:54.760
<v Speaker 1>strikes against Iran after at least two American troops were

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<v Speaker 1>killed by an Iranian attack on an air base in Jordan.

0:14:58.240 --> 0:15:01.320
<v Speaker 1>Since the war began, sixteen Secon service members have been

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<v Speaker 1>killed and more than four hundred and thirty wounded. Donald

0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:06.960
<v Speaker 1>Trump says the deaths are very sad, but came in

0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:10.840
<v Speaker 1>service to their country, and Shadow Housing Minister Andrew Bragg

0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:13.200
<v Speaker 1>says he does not agree with comments made by Liberal

0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:16.760
<v Speaker 1>Party president Tony Abbott. In a video posted to social media,

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<v Speaker 1>Tony Abbott claims that multiculturalism has failed and diversity is

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<v Speaker 1>not a strength.

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<v Speaker 3>Bragg also hit.

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<v Speaker 1>Out at comments from One Nation lead NA Pauline Hanson

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<v Speaker 1>at a conference in London that authorities are stupid for

0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:31.520
<v Speaker 1>giving rights to transgender Australians, calling the comments insane.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm Ruby Jones.

0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:34.920
<v Speaker 1>This is seven am. Thanks for listening.