Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Something to Talk About Mastella Podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm Sarah Lamarquin, your host, and this year I have
Speaker 1: had the privilege of sitting down with some of the
Speaker 1: biggest names in the country. Because when Estrala's celebrities are
Speaker 1: ready to talk, they come to Something to Talk About.
Speaker 1: We're continuing to publish across the summer break, and we'll
Speaker 1: be back with a brand new episode on January twelfth.
Speaker 1: In the meantime, each day for the next two weeks,
Speaker 1: we'll be revisiting some of your favorite episodes from the
Speaker 1: past year, and I'm happy to report that there have
Speaker 1: been a lot of popular episodes, but out of the
Speaker 1: fifty we released in twenty twenty four, we've narrowed it
Speaker 1: down to ten conversations to revisit over the summer break,
Speaker 1: and today we'll hear from Kate Langbrook. When I first
Speaker 1: spoke to Kate in July, we spoke about the glamor
Speaker 1: gap that divides men and women working on TV, had
Speaker 1: a candid update on her family, and somehow she even
Speaker 1: managed to fondly look back on that time I fired
Speaker 1: her as a stellar columnist. I'm sure you'll enjoy this
Speaker 1: chat with Kate, just as much as I did.
Speaker 2: Kay, Sarah Sarah, whatever will be will be. We're chatting
Speaker 2: just you and me, Okay, Sarah Sarah. Does everyone always
Speaker 2: sing that song to you?
Speaker 1: No, you're the first person we've recorded it because you
Speaker 1: know that's what we do because it's a podcast. So
Speaker 1: do I have your permission to use that as a
Speaker 1: new opening credits for something.
Speaker 2: To talk about? You? Are you have my permission to
Speaker 2: use me any way you like, milady friend?
Speaker 1: Oh well, look, Kate, it's already been an absolute pleasure
Speaker 1: having you back on something to talk about. You know,
Speaker 1: I was going to mention I don't always talk about
Speaker 1: things that go off air. Don't panic here, don't worry.
Speaker 1: It's nothing controversial. I think we kept We did all
Speaker 1: of that on air, didn't we tame when we went
Speaker 1: off here?
Speaker 2: And you know I'm not panicer.
Speaker 1: No, No, that that is right. I do not think
Speaker 1: that I could make you panic, but I certainly don't
Speaker 1: even want to. But at the end of our chat
Speaker 1: last year, Kate, we had a conversation about catching up.
Speaker 1: And I know that sounds so flippant, but I'm not
Speaker 1: somebody that, within reason says that too flippantly, Oh, let's
Speaker 1: really catch up, Let's have a coffee, let's do lunch.
Speaker 1: I really mean it, and I honestly feel you all
Speaker 1: this Obviously, I think everyone knows what.
Speaker 2: Kate says is pretty straight shooter.
Speaker 1: But of course, spoiler alert, we never did, did we No?
Speaker 2: No, well, because we were like Morning side of the
Speaker 2: mountain and Twilight side of the hill, like we just
Speaker 2: we just live in different universes and it's hard to
Speaker 2: get them together. So I actually look forward to this
Speaker 2: because it's you know, it's fun.
Speaker 1: Well to thank you, and that's exactly what I was
Speaker 1: going to say, and so our dear listeners, basically what
Speaker 1: I'm saying to you is it's never a hardship for
Speaker 1: you to sit down and have virtual coffee and banana
Speaker 1: bread with Kate Langbrook, and for me selfishly, because she
Speaker 1: and I never got together to have real coffee and
Speaker 1: real banana bread, this is our excuse to catch up again.
Speaker 2: Kate.
Speaker 1: You have recently launched your own podcast, The buck Up
Speaker 1: with Nate Balvo, which is a weekly antidote that promises
Speaker 1: to provide a joyous reprieve from depressing news cycles buzzwords
Speaker 1: to do lists with a whole lot of laughter and levity. Kate,
Speaker 1: I definitely need laughter and levity in my life. I
Speaker 1: think a lot of us do right now. So I
Speaker 1: am proposing that today we do a bit of a
Speaker 1: podcast mash up a little bit of something to talk about,
Speaker 1: and then I thought we could maybe bring a little
Speaker 1: bit of the buck up. So what do you think
Speaker 1: two podcasts for the private perfect?
Speaker 2: Perfect, fantastic because otherwise the times are heavy. They are
Speaker 2: there's no doubt, and these no doubt that it's important
Speaker 2: that you take on that stuff. But the way also
Speaker 2: because we're so connected and the news is just coming
Speaker 2: at you constantly, there's only so much the human spirit
Speaker 2: can bear. And there's these other aspects to the human
Speaker 2: spirit which actually help you endure everything and make bad
Speaker 2: times better. And that is humor and joy and as
Speaker 2: you said, levity and just an exchange of stories from
Speaker 2: your life. You know how there is hopefully everyone has
Speaker 2: a friend that when they see that friend they feel
Speaker 2: better after. You know, some people are drainers. Some people drainers,
Speaker 2: and some people are taps. So Nathan Valvo and I
Speaker 2: are the tap. We're just going to you can turn
Speaker 2: the tap on it anytime there's a little half hour,
Speaker 2: we guarantee you'll feel better at the end of it,
Speaker 2: just for us sharing our lives, listeners lives and having
Speaker 2: a laugh about things, because laughter is the greatest gift.
Speaker 1: It absolutely is. It is as I said, really well,
Speaker 1: actually I stole it from the press release, so antidote
Speaker 1: is not my word. It's whoever did the very clever
Speaker 1: press release for the buck up. But it really is
Speaker 1: the antidote to what we're living through.
Speaker 2: Glad Yeah, the antidote to the times. And in fact,
Speaker 2: Sarah Harris, who does the project and I'm lucky enough
Speaker 2: to see on Tuesday nights when I do the show,
Speaker 2: she sent me a message the other day when the
Speaker 2: other week when it launched, and she said, oh my goodness,
Speaker 2: I actually do feel better than I did. And she said,
Speaker 2: this is the Prozac of podcasts. So if I was
Speaker 2: really clever, I would have put.
Speaker 1: That in antidote. Prozac all the same thing. Look Sarah Harris,
Speaker 1: she could also be writing press releases on the side.
Speaker 1: And I think also, Kate, as you say, sometimes we
Speaker 1: need that levity and it has quite a profound, I
Speaker 1: think effect on the human spirit and sometimes humor and
Speaker 1: the lightness and the having a bit of fun and
Speaker 1: frivolity is something that sometimes people think, oh, I'm not
Speaker 1: going to be taken seriously, or people are going to say,
Speaker 1: these are very serious times, we don't have time for
Speaker 1: something called the buck up. But actually it's critical, as
Speaker 1: you say, and it's so great when people that have
Speaker 1: that profile, like I do not necessarily need to be
Speaker 1: quote unquote serious, because I think.
Speaker 2: Any more than you already are and through your work,
Speaker 2: and you know, we're all exposed to the world, and
Speaker 2: because of the nature of the world we live in,
Speaker 2: we're even exposed to parts of the world and happenings
Speaker 2: in the world that we normally would not be And
Speaker 2: sometimes when I look at the news in the morning,
Speaker 2: I'm just like, oh, a terrible like terrible, and you
Speaker 2: feel a weight inside you that really if you were
Speaker 2: to leave, I guess in a way that in a
Speaker 2: more old fashioned way, I guess you would know your neighbors.
Speaker 2: You would know you know the people at school, or
Speaker 2: the other people walking their dogs or the people at
Speaker 2: the shops. You wouldn't necessarily have that weight on you.
Speaker 2: You would have a proper community. So I think community
Speaker 2: has been kind of become a bit of a weezer
Speaker 2: word in many ways. Of like, any time people want
Speaker 2: to just lump people together, they call it community. But
Speaker 2: real community is linked by knowing each other. And when
Speaker 2: you are taking on all this stuff from people that
Speaker 2: you don't know, and it fills you with fear for
Speaker 2: your children, for the world, for people that you love,
Speaker 2: it's not helpful to anybody because all it does is
Speaker 2: atrophy you, I think, and make you incapable of It
Speaker 2: makes you scared of your fellow humans. And it's just
Speaker 2: it's just not helpful.
Speaker 1: And it's connection too, isn't it. Because as you say,
Speaker 1: the word community has been a little bit exploited, probably
Speaker 1: by I think certain sort of corporate jargon over the
Speaker 1: last few years. But at its heart, it is about
Speaker 1: that human connection and that's such a critical part of
Speaker 1: navigating all of these parts of life. None of us
Speaker 1: can do it without the village, as we say, no.
Speaker 2: That's right, And you know if you've because I've been
Speaker 2: lucky enough to spend most of my professional life in
Speaker 2: well across many camps, really but very soundly rooted in
Speaker 2: comedy and with comedians. That's always been during the comedy festivals,
Speaker 2: you know, Melbourne recently, Sydney's got Brisbane's got one. When
Speaker 2: you sit in a room of people laughing, the energy
Speaker 2: is so great, it's so powerful, but it's always underestimated.
Speaker 2: It's like it's a long standing understood truth that a comedy,
Speaker 2: a common film, will never win an Academy Award. You've
Speaker 2: got to you've got to delve into the depths and
Speaker 2: you know, get a beautiful actress to make herself look ugly,
Speaker 2: and then everyone's like, oh yeah, but comedy is, like
Speaker 2: you said a little bit, it's not valued. It's seen
Speaker 2: as a flippancy, and sometimes it can be, but it
Speaker 2: also is one of the basic tenets of my survival.
Speaker 2: And as Megan Marker would see my thrival, it's not
Speaker 2: enough to survive, it gotta thrive, and it is. It's
Speaker 2: just happiness is such a leavening of the breed of
Speaker 2: your soul that it makes everything else happy.
Speaker 1: Wow, that was That was a beautiful sentence, Kate. You
Speaker 1: mentioned Sarah Harris Saran that you appear alongside her on
Speaker 1: the project on Tuesdays, and you also appear Instellar today.
Speaker 1: You've been photographed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, images so beautiful. That was such a beautiful shoes.
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you about that side of your
Speaker 1: role in the media because of the project, there's big
Speaker 1: hair and makeup, and then there's wardrobe, and then you
Speaker 1: come on set for Stella if there's a lot of
Speaker 1: obviously focus on the styling, what you wear, hair and makeup. Again,
Speaker 1: do you like that side of what your role sometimes
Speaker 1: demands of you?
Speaker 2: Kate, Mmm, Well, the wardrobe girls will tell you, and
Speaker 2: my girlfriend Alice would tell you that I am a
Speaker 2: lazy dresser. Like even my boots I've gone on. I
Speaker 2: have to have zips. I can't be bothering laces like
Speaker 2: sometimes my girlfriend analy says to me, are you a toddler?
Speaker 2: That you that you I would almost have belcro But
Speaker 2: it is very lucky. It's like it's a beautiful thing.
Speaker 2: In particular, during lockdown, you really learned that that the
Speaker 2: things that you once resented or you know, you saw
Speaker 2: as an obstacle were actually things you were lucky to have.
Speaker 2: So to go in once a week and have someone
Speaker 2: actually do your makeup or do your hair was incredible,
Speaker 2: And so I try to be less lazy. But when
Speaker 2: I go into the project and the stylist Rachel sort
Speaker 2: of oversees this team of other stylists in there, and
Speaker 2: they really just they's so great and they're doing news,
Speaker 2: they're doing whatever. And I've got some clothes hanging on
Speaker 2: the rack. Normally this is what I do. I try
Speaker 2: on the first one. I put it on over whatever
Speaker 2: T shirt I'm wearing at the time, and I go,
Speaker 2: that'll do. They're always like, can you try on the others,
Speaker 2: just so we know. I'm like, oh, man, man, like
Speaker 2: really pitiful, And this is my uniform that I wear
Speaker 2: all the time. I've got overalls on. Do you call
Speaker 2: them overalls? That? Yes, bib and brace.
Speaker 1: Overalls like yeah, I think other people, yeah you say braces,
Speaker 1: but absolutely overalls over a T shirt.
Speaker 2: Over a T shirt. I have very few shirts in
Speaker 2: my wardrobeans taking them.
Speaker 1: Buttons, yeah, button, but dresser, yes.
Speaker 2: You've got it. You've got it. So just things I
Speaker 2: can pull on and pull off, things I can zip
Speaker 2: up and whip off. So I do enjoy like everyone like,
Speaker 2: sometimes you put on a garment so transformative, Isn't it
Speaker 2: really elevates you? You're like it's great for the spirit,
Speaker 2: like laughter, beauty is also I think a high principle,
Speaker 2: not a low principle, So not like in a not
Speaker 2: in a self obsessed sort of I'm gonna say, kardash
Speaker 2: in way just a shorthand for what we know what
Speaker 2: that means, but as our noble principle. Entire you know,
Speaker 2: entire civilizations have been founded on the love of beauty,
Speaker 2: you know, the Romans and the Italians to this day, etc.
Speaker 2: So it does. It elevates you and it lifts you up.
Speaker 2: But I am loath to use that as much as
Speaker 2: I possibly should. Also because I'm busy. I've got four kids,
Speaker 2: I've got a husband, I work, and I can't be asked.
Speaker 1: It's I'm reluctant. It would be a bit cliche of
Speaker 1: me to say it's so refreshing to hear a woman
Speaker 1: in the spotlight that's going on national television or going
Speaker 1: in a major national magazine saying not going to worry
Speaker 1: too much about that. So I'll be cliche and say
Speaker 1: it is refreshing to hear somebody say that. But I
Speaker 1: think about this a little bit in terms of women,
Speaker 1: because I would say, for me, Kay, I do agree
Speaker 1: with you about aesthetic like it's something that actually feel
Speaker 1: quite strongly with is a form of I think self
Speaker 1: expression and identity, and it can be misunderstood in our
Speaker 1: society because I think everyone assumes if a woman's taking
Speaker 1: those things seriously whatever it is, that oh, she's pandering
Speaker 1: to the male gaze, or there's some sort of metric
Speaker 1: to use, as he said, the Kardashian shorthand for it,
Speaker 1: and who.
Speaker 2: Have taken it, because they have taken it to this extraordinary.
Speaker 1: Length exactly, And there is obviously a level of exploitation
Speaker 1: and more problematic things going on there. But that doesn't
Speaker 1: mean that leaning into any of that glamour fashion style,
Speaker 1: whatever it is, it doesn't have a more profound connection
Speaker 1: to identity and self expression. But I always also love
Speaker 1: exploring the idea that some people are like, that's just
Speaker 1: not really something that I can be bothered doing the
Speaker 1: buttons up or what else will constitute address that you
Speaker 1: might think, well that would be amazing, but just could
Speaker 1: not be bothered. I'm assuming zippers are good? Are they?
Speaker 2: I mean, you know good? I don't want to sound
Speaker 2: like I'm amish. What is it? The Armies? Are they
Speaker 2: anti zipper? It must be zippers, is it? But they
Speaker 2: have buttons?
Speaker 1: Didn't know that they were anti zipper.
Speaker 2: Because I think it's one of those fastenings is new technology,
Speaker 2: so it must be the zipper because.
Speaker 1: Right, yes, I can't imagine then, Like you talked about
Speaker 1: laces before and shoes, so like a corset or something
Speaker 1: like that. Yes, a million different buttons just yes, never
Speaker 1: never know.
Speaker 2: You know, when you watch, you know, something set in
Speaker 2: the oldie times and they look so beautiful and they're
Speaker 2: sort of wasp wasted, or you know that show that
Speaker 2: We're bridget in. When I was watching bridging In, right,
Speaker 2: I was like, those they look so beautiful and it
Speaker 2: really is like that that it's the epitome of feminine, right,
Speaker 2: sometimes even to the point of being crippling in many ways,
Speaker 2: but it was the epitome of femininity. But I'm just like,
Speaker 2: what would I have done in the olden days? What
Speaker 2: would I have done? Oh, there is no way unless
Speaker 2: I had a lady in waiting, you know, and you
Speaker 2: did the traditional lean over the table.
Speaker 1: Was Scarlet O'Hara in Gone with Them?
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly exactly, But more likely I would have been
Speaker 2: not upstairs but downstairs and in some steamy kitchen, you know,
Speaker 2: with all everything hanging out as I juggled pots and pans,
Speaker 2: you know, for them upstairs. But even so, if I
Speaker 2: was downstairs, I would be like the downstairs in the Titanic,
Speaker 2: you know, they would dancing jig and the ones of course, yes,
Speaker 2: the car, the car.
Speaker 1: You would be there with Leo. It doesn't matter what part,
Speaker 1: the first class wherever it's going to be, Kate, Leo
Speaker 1: steamy hand.
Speaker 2: On the car. Well, I think in dancing a jeeg
Speaker 2: wherever I am, I like to think I'm dancing a jig. Yeah,
Speaker 2: even if it's just internally.
Speaker 1: I think. You know, Kate, if you did decide to
Speaker 1: go back into acting, we talked about your acting career
Speaker 1: last time, maybe like a period drama, you know, Bridgeton,
Speaker 1: and it could be what does somebody with Kate Langbrook's
Speaker 1: fuss free approach to dressing in this time?
Speaker 2: I mean really imagine imagine that the diamond of the
Speaker 2: season and then I come in all a jiggle. They
Speaker 2: would not like it.
Speaker 1: What about the makeup? Hair and makeup? We talk about
Speaker 1: the pay gap. I have talked about the pay gap,
Speaker 1: Yes we have. I'm sure of course you have heard
Speaker 1: and observed firsthand multiple times the hair and makeup gap
Speaker 1: I'm not sure what it's called. Maybe there's a fancy
Speaker 1: word for it, the glamor app.
Speaker 2: Something somebody ever talks about that.
Speaker 1: So let's say you're at the Project on Tuesday night
Speaker 1: and yes, you know, you and Sarah. All women on
Speaker 1: commercial TV, not just in Australia around the world can
Speaker 1: be anywhere between, you know, forty five minute minimum, often
Speaker 1: sixty ninety minutes, and people are listening going what do
Speaker 1: they do in that time? Believe me, they do, They
Speaker 1: do things. And then you would have Will Lead or
Speaker 1: any of your male.
Speaker 2: Sam tauntons they whipping five minutes before the show.
Speaker 1: How does that make you true?
Speaker 2: Well, you know, this is interesting because it's like any
Speaker 2: anyone listening to this, who any woman who's got ready
Speaker 2: for an event that she's going to with her partner,
Speaker 2: husband or whatever, would have noted this. The lead up,
Speaker 2: the prep, the whatever, the shopping, the shoes, the fittings,
Speaker 2: the la la and then the husband if he even
Speaker 2: has a tux or puts it on, brushes his hair,
Speaker 2: squirt of whatever to hide the funk of him, and
Speaker 2: he's out the door. But this is what I kind
Speaker 2: of think if I was offered the and it is television, right,
Speaker 2: So it's vision. So that's a very important part. Like
Speaker 2: today I've come in, I'm not wearing makeup. Probably I
Speaker 2: should be. For people who are for her high death
Speaker 2: watching this in a high definition, which is, by the way, horrendous.
Speaker 2: If I was offered to go on the show, on
Speaker 2: that show or any other and offered the opportunity to
Speaker 2: save sixty to ninety minutes a day, I would not
Speaker 2: take it. Really. I wouldn't take it too much that
Speaker 2: I would put I would put this this shiny halloween
Speaker 2: lantern face on television without any of the niceties that
Speaker 2: go with television. I actually wouldn't do it, to be honest,
Speaker 2: even though we but when we see the guys, we're
Speaker 2: always like, it's how easy for you? Which it is.
Speaker 1: And then let's just say that you were thinking about
Speaker 1: going back or moving into TV full time, you were
Speaker 1: offered to aim her you know, morning TV show or
Speaker 1: whatever TV may look like in five years, could be
Speaker 1: a whole other time slot that I'm not even thinking sure,
Speaker 1: And it all sounds great, and then they say, and
Speaker 1: it would be you know, ninety minutes every day in
Speaker 1: hair and Maker from Monday to Friday, and then wardrobe.
Speaker 1: Would that then be a deal breaker for you, Kate?
Speaker 2: I do think I think of that often when I
Speaker 2: see you know, the sisters who do who do morning TV?
Speaker 2: You know, Sylvia or nat Bar Gean. Nat Bar is
Speaker 2: doing some heavy hitting at the moment, by the way,
Speaker 2: isn't she She's just like bam bam coming out swinging amazing. Anyway,
Speaker 2: I think they've got up. It's like that Ginger Rogers
Speaker 2: free to steer things with their male co hosts. Everything.
Speaker 2: They're doing everything he did, but backwards in high heels
Speaker 2: and in here and makeup nineteen minutes before. So they
Speaker 2: must be getting in at like three thirty in the morning.
Speaker 1: They are, I don't know, it comes in at three thirty.
Speaker 1: You're right, it.
Speaker 2: Would be a consideration. But I also don't think, you know,
Speaker 2: if you're wanting people to wake up with you. I
Speaker 2: think it's nice that you have made that effort, don't you.
Speaker 1: I do. It's one I wanted to ask you about
Speaker 1: it because I don't think there's any easy answers to this,
Speaker 1: as in it's as you said, it's that example, getting
Speaker 1: ready for an event at home. If you're in a
Speaker 1: heterosexual relationship and as the guy comes in and gets
Speaker 1: ready in two minutes. It's not fair and it's crazy.
Speaker 1: But then are we outraged about it? And that is
Speaker 1: an opening. Some people may be outraged.
Speaker 2: I'm not.
Speaker 1: I really wanted to know. Yeah, what your thoughts.
Speaker 2: No, but it's just one of those things that you clock.
Speaker 2: It is. It's like at Christmas time, Christmas would not
Speaker 2: happen without the women generally.
Speaker 1: That's right. Well, I do get a bit outraged about you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's annoying. It's annoying. It's you know, no
Speaker 2: one in an office would get a present if were
Speaker 2: it not for the women.
Speaker 1: This is true, you know.
Speaker 2: What I mean. It's like, it's just the stuff that
Speaker 2: we do. But I think in many ways like that,
Speaker 2: your strength is also your weakness. So women make the
Speaker 2: world beautiful, and we are the ornaments of the world.
Speaker 2: There is no doubt. We're not the birds. We're not
Speaker 2: the drab, brown ones where the colorful, beautiful ones not
Speaker 2: always don't have to be. But that is something that
Speaker 2: is open to us. And I love that we have
Speaker 2: that capacity I have, but it can also consume you.
Speaker 1: It's true.
Speaker 2: And you know you said for the male gay earlier
Speaker 2: ninety percent of it is not for the male gaze,
Speaker 2: that's right, and it's it's either for our gaye or
Speaker 2: for the gays of each other.
Speaker 1: And when we come back, I ask Kate about how
Speaker 1: she's balancing the work family life ratio in twenty twenty four.
Speaker 1: Her answer is very unexpected and very funny. Kate, I
Speaker 1: wanted to get your pick your brains on this thing
Speaker 1: that we call work life family ratio because you always
Speaker 1: have such really refreshing, wonderful insights into it. You and
Speaker 1: I obviously have discussed previously, you and your family going
Speaker 1: to Italy for two years in twenty nineteen, and no
Speaker 1: people still stop you on the street and talk about that.
Speaker 1: You've written a book about it, but.
Speaker 2: Which I love, By the way, my favorite people other
Speaker 2: than the buck up people now, but my favorite people
Speaker 2: in the world are the people who stop me to
Speaker 2: talk about the book because we've just shared so much,
Speaker 2: like we've shared Italy for starters, and we've shared two
Speaker 2: years of my life. And you know what I learned,
Speaker 2: What I learned from it, not that i've you know
Speaker 2: that beauty conversation is very Italian.
Speaker 1: That's right. And I think also, as you know, even
Speaker 1: from the moment that you first announced that you and
Speaker 1: the family were going over there. There was huge response
Speaker 1: on social media because it's that thing that people talk
Speaker 1: about and dream about and don't necessarily do. And that's
Speaker 1: why I wanted to, like I say, sort of shamelessly,
Speaker 1: just pick your brains and ask you what is your
Speaker 1: day to day life rhythm looking like. In twenty twenty four,
Speaker 1: we talked about the buck Up. That's a weekly podcast.
Speaker 2: Goodness, yes, that's weekly. Yeah, so we do that. Oh
Speaker 2: look my week and now because I'm freelancing, So for
Speaker 2: years I did until I went to Italy. Really I
Speaker 2: did a long you know, I did twelve years of
Speaker 2: breakfast radio with Husy and then I had a year
Speaker 2: off and then we did National Drive. So that even
Speaker 2: though particularly doing breakfast radio, tiredness is your constant companion,
Speaker 2: but you still have this structure to your day, and
Speaker 2: the same doing Drive. You're not as tired, but you
Speaker 2: have a structure to your day. And now I kind
Speaker 2: of have no structure because I'm freelancing, but my structure
Speaker 2: is about the family mate. It's brutal. Some days I
Speaker 2: have done I have done a day's work by eight
Speaker 2: thirty am. I have done washing. I have done I've
Speaker 2: maybe cooked a meal. I've been to the shops when
Speaker 2: they open at seven o'clock. I've made lunches of whatever.
Speaker 2: All of those things I don't have to do, and
Speaker 2: yet I have to do them. I have to do
Speaker 2: them for the family, but also I have to do
Speaker 2: them for myself because it was my idea. It was
Speaker 2: my idea, and sometimes I'm like, I think about that now,
Speaker 2: and we talk about it on one of the episodes
Speaker 2: of The buck Up as well. This concept of shadow labor,
Speaker 2: which drives me fucking crazy, which is the work that
Speaker 2: they make you do. They make you do now that
Speaker 2: used to be done by other people. Like you go
Speaker 2: to a car park and it's a there's no person
Speaker 2: there anymore, and you have to put your license numbering
Speaker 2: and you have to data data, or you try to
Speaker 2: book on a plane and you're filling out the things
Speaker 2: and you go to the three supermarket. Yes, that's shadow labor.
Speaker 2: So that was once someone's job, and it's all become
Speaker 2: our job. Like even if I want to watch something
Speaker 2: on television, it's like scan this QR code and into
Speaker 2: your thing and your blah blah, and your email and
Speaker 2: your it drives me crazy. That I do at home
Speaker 2: is not shadow labor. It is my labor. It is
Speaker 2: life's labor. And there is something you know, I don't
Speaker 2: want to. I don't want to, you know, gild the
Speaker 2: lily too much. It's not even a lily. I don't
Speaker 2: want to gild the weed, but there is. I try
Speaker 2: to find that there's something noble in it that I'm
Speaker 2: doing it. Sometimes I even have to project myself into
Speaker 2: the future and imagine that I'm dead, wishfully imagine that
Speaker 2: I'm dead and imagine how my family will reflect on
Speaker 2: what I did, and that helps. I'm the only person
Speaker 2: that does that. Do you ever imagine that you're dead?
Speaker 2: And what would say?
Speaker 1: Oh, I don't know that. I do it specifically for
Speaker 1: those shadow labor tasks. So if you're talking about some
Speaker 1: of those things like food preparation and those things, I
Speaker 1: don't do it then, but I I absolutely do do
Speaker 1: it because I think it's that thing We're all taught,
Speaker 1: aren't we about what our priorities would be on our deathbed,
Speaker 1: but then also the next stage after that in terms
Speaker 1: of yes, how you will be remembered and even when
Speaker 1: your children are looking back ten, twenty, thirty, fifty seventy years,
Speaker 1: will it have been worth doing this? So I absolutely do.
Speaker 1: I don't think I do it though for things in
Speaker 1: the kitchen, I think I'm just a bit more maybe
Speaker 1: roll my eyes overtly, maybe I'll start thinking about that.
Speaker 2: Well. I'm not advocating it as a thing. It's just
Speaker 2: sometimes probably I wish I was dead. It's probably as
Speaker 2: basic as that. It's just a fleeting moment when you're
Speaker 2: just like looking at all the mounds and the hordes.
Speaker 2: But it's also a thing that we're always it seems
Speaker 2: to be a conceit of the times that we're always
Speaker 2: going we must have a conversation about whatever, la la la,
Speaker 2: And some of those conversations are important, but I believe
Speaker 2: actions are more important than conversations. One is sometimes lead
Speaker 2: from the other. But so what I am doing in
Speaker 2: my family, and my husband Peter Alan Lewis is also doing,
Speaker 2: is we are showing. So people say all the time,
Speaker 2: I don't want my daughter to grow up with an
Speaker 2: eating disorder, So I tell her all the time she's beautiful,
Speaker 2: how she is or whatever, And yet they watch their
Speaker 2: mother go kneel by mouth until it's wine time or whatever.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean, absolutely so, And I'm always like,
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter what you say. What matters in every
Speaker 2: aspect of life is what you do. And so I
Speaker 2: try to even though it is it is well, I
Speaker 2: guess it's like a lot of things. It's once an
Speaker 2: honor and a burden, but it's one. Particularly since we
Speaker 2: came back, well, since we went to Italy and I
Speaker 2: had I wish come true to spend more time with
Speaker 2: the family. I'm also like, why did I wish that?
Speaker 2: Because I'm like normal, and I'm my inclination is like
Speaker 2: most people that I would like to be selfish, and
Speaker 2: I would like to be lazy, and I would like
Speaker 2: to you know, but you part of the stretch of
Speaker 2: what you do in life, no matter what it is,
Speaker 2: if it's having a family or not. But if you
Speaker 2: love and care for another creature, the love and the
Speaker 2: stretch and the growth comes from going beyond what you
Speaker 2: would like to do, going outside yourself, and it's kind
Speaker 2: of powerful. It's a powerful concept, but also it can
Speaker 2: leave you just exhausted. So I oscillate between those two.
Speaker 2: I'm just like, and that is I guess that is
Speaker 2: just the dance of life, isn't it?
Speaker 1: It is? And I suppose the the cost or the
Speaker 1: tax I suppose, isn't it of unconditional love and caring
Speaker 1: for people is what brings value to this world. But God,
Speaker 1: it's hard work.
Speaker 2: It's hard work. And we've got all the appliances and
Speaker 2: still hard work.
Speaker 1: Imagine that. Imagine the shadow labor when you were trying to,
Speaker 1: you know, not put on that corset. Well, that's tion,
Speaker 1: you know in the bridges, that's.
Speaker 2: Well, the shadow labor was actually for the for the
Speaker 2: poor chicken was trying to lace me up. Well, she
Speaker 2: was doing the shadow. That was a lot she was
Speaker 2: sucked into.
Speaker 1: Actually, last year, when you and I spoke talking about family,
Speaker 1: we spoke about how your son Lewis is dating Gypsy.
Speaker 1: Lee hate Sobrano.
Speaker 2: And Gypsy was kind of fresh then, wasn't it. It was?
Speaker 1: It was you said, she's just a beauty, she's divine,
Speaker 1: and they're both really beautiful, too, beautiful neph babies who
Speaker 1: neither of whom are casual, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: It's so beautiful? And then Gypsy has since appeared in Stella.
Speaker 1: Early this year, we released her dut we asked Gypsy
Speaker 1: about obviously you being part of the extended Stella family.
Speaker 1: There you go, that's just more to add to your
Speaker 1: shadow labor taking care of the Stella family as well.
Speaker 1: And Gypsy said that you and her mum Kate used
Speaker 1: their witching powers to set us up in a way.
Speaker 1: Kate and Lewis have the same bond that Mum and
Speaker 1: I have. I love witching powers. That's really beautiful too,
Speaker 1: isn't it.
Speaker 2: It was interesting because Lewis says to me, Mum, do
Speaker 2: you know someone called Gypsy? And I went, oh, well,
Speaker 2: I said no, not not exactly, but I know her mom.
Speaker 2: And he goes, oh, I've got some really nice messages
Speaker 2: from it. And I said to him, Lewis, the old
Speaker 2: ladies in the village of match making you And I said,
Speaker 2: I'm not. I'm not actually playing an active part in it,
Speaker 2: but I know that it's going on, like I'm not
Speaker 2: being an obstacle. And then Trudy, my girlfriend, went to
Speaker 2: an op shop and found this really beautiful I love
Speaker 2: op shoppy stuff and she's a brilliant vintage and op
Speaker 2: shopper and she found these beautiful Irish lynnen Place mats,
Speaker 2: right and she gave them to Kate to give to
Speaker 2: Gypsy to drop off at our house. So then they
Speaker 2: got into this really strange sort of they hadn't met,
Speaker 2: but they were messaging each other about this thing. And
Speaker 2: then Peter and I last year went to back to
Speaker 2: Italy for the first time and went to Paris for
Speaker 2: Peter's first time. And when we left, so we were
Speaker 2: gone for three weeks. When we left, Lewis was going
Speaker 2: on his first walk with Gypsy, and three weeks later
Speaker 2: he facetimed me. We were in Paris at that point
Speaker 2: and he was going to the movies with Gypsy the
Speaker 2: next day, and I knew that seen each other in between,
Speaker 2: and I said to Lewis, have you got a girlfriend? Lewis?
Speaker 2: And he said, I think I do, Mum and that,
Speaker 2: so now they've had like they've past the year anniversary.
Speaker 2: I love beautiful, amazing witching powers.
Speaker 1: Indeed, beautiful phrase, beautiful phrase, witching powers, Indeed, I love it.
Speaker 1: But then it's a little bit if you know your
Speaker 1: social media there as well, you know, see those do
Speaker 1: those videos? You're never not we're trying to to lead.
Speaker 2: But also she was Kate was spot on in her instincts.
Speaker 2: I have to say, like spot on, nothing could have
Speaker 2: been easier. And it's really only in retrospect that I go, oh,
Speaker 2: my goodness, when your kid brings someone home, it could
Speaker 2: go disastrously wrong suddenly, like if you didn't like them
Speaker 2: or whatever. It is a myriad exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And look, I mean, I'm sure every parent has
Speaker 1: to contemplate that and obviously deal with it sometimes. And
Speaker 1: I've got no doubt personally that you would absolutely handle
Speaker 1: that really graciously.
Speaker 2: Oh do you think so that I would, Sarah, because
Speaker 2: you know, you know how it is when you're in
Speaker 2: love with someone and when you're first in love and
Speaker 2: when you're young. Yes, Like, which of us has not
Speaker 2: made a mistake in our youth?
Speaker 1: I did?
Speaker 2: And if my parents, I mean I didn't see my
Speaker 2: parents then because they I had left the Jehovah's witnesses.
Speaker 2: So luckily I was free to make my own mistakes?
Speaker 2: Or was I lucky there was no one there to
Speaker 2: say to me? I don't know. I don't know about this, honey,
Speaker 2: I don't know. But you have to be really careful
Speaker 2: how you deal with it, because you're dealing with you're
Speaker 2: trying to talk to someone about you're trying to express.
Speaker 2: I imagine reservations where they see none that's true.
Speaker 1: And it's complicated, and I mean people can have that
Speaker 1: even with good friends, can't they. We've all seen somebody
Speaker 1: that we care deeply about, and yes, know that it's
Speaker 1: really not going to be good, but it's very complicated
Speaker 1: to have those conversations, and you have to stay up.
Speaker 1: I love this person, Is it in their best interest
Speaker 1: to speak? Or am I blowing this relationship up? So
Speaker 1: it is?
Speaker 2: And then they break up, and then they get back together,
Speaker 2: and in the meantime she's told him or whoever, all
Speaker 2: the things that you've said, and then your relationship is
Speaker 2: reen to thunder forever like it's very tricky to rain.
Speaker 2: It is, and luckily I have not had to navigate it.
Speaker 2: But I've still got three other children coming through. Let
Speaker 2: me touch wood that the course of love runs smooth,
Speaker 2: and we'll be back.
Speaker 1: In a moment to hear Kate open up about how
Speaker 1: she first experienced anxiety. Last year. We've talked a little
Speaker 1: bit about radio. Obviously worked with Hughes and now you
Speaker 1: have the as I said, the weekly podcast, the buck Up.
Speaker 2: Yes, but but I don't even know if that's the
Speaker 2: opening song, but I think it is.
Speaker 1: I should really probably return the favor and sing an
Speaker 1: opening song to you, since oh I'm in the top
Speaker 1: of our conversation. But that's okay, I'll come up. I'll
Speaker 1: come up with something a bit later. You clearly are
Speaker 1: very very very good podcast host and extremely capable feeling.
Speaker 1: So I'm just going to hand over that the end
Speaker 1: of this episode is something to talk about to you
Speaker 1: as a co host of The Buck.
Speaker 2: Up Well, Sarah, So we start by, I mean, we
Speaker 2: say hello, I'm kateline Brook.
Speaker 1: You are I am Sarah Lamarquin.
Speaker 2: Yes, correct, well done. That's the first of the way.
Speaker 2: But you want so the ethos of the podcast is,
Speaker 2: and it's kind of difficult to articulate, but but let
Speaker 2: me give you an example so that things in life
Speaker 2: really get you down. There's no doubt anyone who lives
Speaker 2: a life. As my mother said, the longer you live,
Speaker 2: more bad things are going to happen to you, which
Speaker 2: also makes me laugh. But there's something about sharing bad
Speaker 2: things that have happened. And I think I believe this
Speaker 2: because I spent a long part of my life in
Speaker 2: a religion where I had to keep a big part
Speaker 2: of my self secret, like the most essential part of myself,
Speaker 2: because it would be so disapproved of and everything about
Speaker 2: me was wrong for that religion. It turned out the
Speaker 2: religion was wrong for me, but whatever. So now I'm like,
Speaker 2: I don't really have many, if any secrets. So the
Speaker 2: buckup is when stuff happens to you that's kind of terrible.
Speaker 2: If you just reset yourself a bit, often you'll find
Speaker 2: that it's got an upside to it. So when we
Speaker 2: were talking about first doing the podcast, I was telling
Speaker 2: nath what had happened when I went to America early
Speaker 2: this year, and I did these two massive interviews with
Speaker 2: Zendaya and Florence Pew and Austin Butler and Timothy Chalomay
Speaker 2: and I talk about that in the first episode of
Speaker 2: the podcast. But what I didn't talk about was when
Speaker 2: I came back from America, this really weird thing happened
Speaker 2: and I had anxiety for the first time in my life.
Speaker 2: I've never had it before. I'm modern, so I know
Speaker 2: heaps of people who have got it, and kids have
Speaker 2: got it, and grown ups have got it, and even
Speaker 2: dogs have got it. Right, it's the malaise of our
Speaker 2: modern world, and I had it for the first time,
Speaker 2: and it took me a little while to realize what
Speaker 2: it was. I was waking up in the morning with
Speaker 2: this just this waking up ding, and then terrible things
Speaker 2: were popping into my mind, real or imagined. And then
Speaker 2: I went, oh, I've got anxiety. Right, this is terrible.
Speaker 2: So I call the number of a guy who I'd
Speaker 2: been recommended by, strangely, a woman that I go and
Speaker 2: have colonics with, right, and she had mentioned this guy
Speaker 2: to me before, and I'd met him in the past
Speaker 2: and he was really lovely. So I just seen him
Speaker 2: a message. At this stage, I was so low that
Speaker 2: I couldn't even explain to him why I was coming
Speaker 2: to see him. I just had to say, I really
Speaker 2: need to see you. I was so low that even
Speaker 2: the people that I live with, who are very often
Speaker 2: blind to you because they see you every day and
Speaker 2: you're like a service animal in that life, you know. No, Yeah,
Speaker 2: so even they noticed, and I said, I said to Louis,
Speaker 2: I can't go into the backyard. Peter was doing armor
Speaker 2: garden in the backyard. I just I'm like, I can't
Speaker 2: go in the backyard. It's given me anxiety. Peter comes
Speaker 2: to anxiety, said, Louis Seed, you've got anxiety, and I said, yeah,
Speaker 2: I do. And Peter was like, this is a phrase
Speaker 2: I have never uttered. Right, I'm not an anxious person.
Speaker 2: I'm not a fearful person. It's just not been a
Speaker 2: thing anyway. I said, yes I have. And he goes,
Speaker 2: what are you anxious about? Which is what people always
Speaker 2: say to people who have got anxiety. I'm like, it's
Speaker 2: not a thing, but it has been triggered by this
Speaker 2: trip overseas and the full on stress and the Americans.
Speaker 2: It was wow, allow and all of that. I said,
Speaker 2: but I've made an appointment to see someone, and on
Speaker 2: in between he said, what do you mean. I said,
Speaker 2: I've made an appointment to see someone on Monday. Now
Speaker 2: this is where the magic of the buck up comes Sarah,
Speaker 2: because he became he became obsessed with the idea that
Speaker 2: I was going to talk about him and that he
Speaker 2: was somehow responsible for my anxiety. So he became the
Speaker 2: greatest person in the world. It became obsessed. It was
Speaker 2: all like. At one stage we were getting out of
Speaker 2: the car and he said to me, I hope you're
Speaker 2: going to tell her that I carry your jacket out
Speaker 2: of the car for you. And I said to him,
Speaker 2: for starters, she is a hymn, and also why do
Speaker 2: you think it's about you? And he goes, what else
Speaker 2: would you talk to him about? Right? And I'm like, well,
Speaker 2: that's an interesting observation. So it just actually became even
Speaker 2: before I had started that process, what became what started
Speaker 2: off in such such a I don't know, pain and despair,
Speaker 2: not really pain, but just that that awful thing of
Speaker 2: anxiety actually became something of humor and great And so
Speaker 2: then I was like, I've got to go to bed.
Speaker 2: I need a cup of tea. It's like bounding up
Speaker 2: the stairs. It was just it was just brilliant. It
Speaker 2: was brilliant. Now, who would think that that that I
Speaker 2: would get a buck up from when I had anxiety?
Speaker 1: And yet I did, and that it would inspire a
Speaker 1: whole podcast.
Speaker 2: Well there you go. And so often in life things
Speaker 2: terrible things happen, And I guess this is what comedians do,
Speaker 2: is that they will always put a spin on something
Speaker 2: so that the it boomerangs its way back to you.
Speaker 2: But it's somehow got a little bit of sparkle on it.
Speaker 1: Did Peter then continue do you still have this sort
Speaker 1: of yes, buck up at home.
Speaker 2: Well, okay, so seeing the counselor that I saw was fantastic.
Speaker 2: He's just enough, he's woo woo enough that it was great.
Speaker 2: So it was some talking and breaking stuff down and
Speaker 2: then some acupuncture on a table and some it was
Speaker 2: so it was great, but yes, I'm like, for a
Speaker 2: few days afterwards, I would say, in a couple of
Speaker 2: weeks after even I would say to Peter, be careful.
Speaker 2: You don't want to trigger my anxiety, right, And he
Speaker 2: was like snap to it. And he's a beautiful, loving
Speaker 2: like he's my person. But in the cut and thrust
Speaker 2: of life, we've been married a long time, We've got
Speaker 2: a lot of responsibilities. You're not always treated like the
Speaker 2: orchid that you believe you are in the hot house,
Speaker 2: and sometimes you're treated by the weed that's growing on
Speaker 2: the median strip. Right. It was just a nice It
Speaker 2: ended up actually being an unexpected benefit of something. You
Speaker 2: would never think that there'd be a silver lining on
Speaker 2: that dark cloud, and in fact it ended up being.
Speaker 2: It ended up just being part of part of the joy,
Speaker 2: but also what I did, and because I'm a stoic
Speaker 2: and that is very much my ideology that I that's
Speaker 2: how I lead that there might have been an inclination
Speaker 2: for me to keep this vulnerability secret. That suddenly I
Speaker 2: was all wobbly and untethered. It was whereas I normally
Speaker 2: wake up, you know, I just I'm okay, and I
Speaker 2: wasn't okay, and there is a tendency to keep that.
Speaker 2: You're like, oh, what's going on? Or I didn't have that.
Speaker 2: I was like, I have to step into this, and
Speaker 2: if had I not done that, none of the other
Speaker 2: benefits would have come.
Speaker 1: That's great, and it's so good that you gave you
Speaker 1: yourself permission to feel it and acknowledge it.
Speaker 2: And also that aspect of it was funny, not all
Speaker 2: of it, but that aspect was funny and contained like
Speaker 2: some joy.
Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed that episode of the summer series.
Speaker 1: Something to talk about. Make sure you're following us if
Speaker 1: you're not already, because we'll be revisiting some of your
Speaker 1: favorite episodes of the past year until we're back with
Speaker 1: a brand new episode on January twelfth.