WEBVTT - The Late Debate | 3 January 0:00:00.440 --> 0:00:08.039 Lately than gentle manner. Welcome to the late debate. Good evening, 0:00:08.080 --> 0:00:10.520 Welcome to the late debates. I'm killed. Richard's with me 0:00:10.560 --> 0:00:14.360 on the desk tonight, Evelyn Ray and Lucy Zelig. Now 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:18.400 we're supposed to be transitioning towards renewable power. Well are 0:00:18.440 --> 0:00:20.720 we transitioning or why are we just wobbling in an 0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:25.200 uncertain direction? Also tonight, when there's a lone wolf kind 0:00:25.239 --> 0:00:27.560 of terrors, such as the person that we saw in 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:31.520 this horrible event in New Orleans killing fifteen people, how 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:34.520 safe are we in Australia and could they be activated 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:37.559 by what's happening in the Middle East? Those stories coming up. 0:00:37.760 --> 0:00:41.040 But firstly tonight, what are you going to do in 0:00:41.080 --> 0:00:44.120 twenty twenty five? Well, I know one thing for certain 0:00:44.200 --> 0:00:47.760 you'll be doing. You will be voting, possibly in March, 0:00:47.800 --> 0:00:50.520 but perhaps as early as April, it could be that early. 0:00:50.880 --> 0:00:52.680 And how are we going to vote? Well, it may 0:00:52.720 --> 0:00:55.640 depend on whether your twenty third pair of chromosomes are 0:00:55.760 --> 0:00:58.600 xx or x y. Because we're told men and women 0:00:58.800 --> 0:01:02.160 are interested in different things. Women more aggrieved about the 0:01:02.200 --> 0:01:05.240 cost of living than men, and there's a gender split 0:01:05.280 --> 0:01:09.319 on key election issues. Generally, men apparently more in favor 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:13.360 of nuclear power and more concerned about left wing ideology, 0:01:13.440 --> 0:01:16.039 women more concerned about the cost of living and less 0:01:16.040 --> 0:01:19.720 inclined to trust governments. So, Lucy, is there a gender 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:20.679 split in this election? 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:22.959 My gosh, who would have thought men and women are different? 0:01:23.840 --> 0:01:26.119 Shock me, Kel, this is a revelation. 0:01:26.440 --> 0:01:28.520 What do we do with it? I mean, look, I 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:31.000 was listening to Caroline de Russo talk about this earlier 0:01:31.000 --> 0:01:33.680 with Danika de Georgio, and I tended to agree with 0:01:34.120 --> 0:01:36.720 her line of thinking in that you know, I know 0:01:36.800 --> 0:01:39.320 that we like to argue, and I guess in many respects. 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:41.840 Now we're a modern, involved society. The roles have changed 0:01:41.880 --> 0:01:44.120 in the household. I certainly still adopt a very traditional 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:46.640 role in my household. I'm the one doing the groceries, 0:01:46.680 --> 0:01:48.360 the cooking, the cleaning, and all those sorts of things. 0:01:48.360 --> 0:01:50.680 And my husband is the hunter gatherer, providing for his family. 0:01:50.720 --> 0:01:53.120 God bless him. But you know, I'm the one that's 0:01:53.120 --> 0:01:55.919 seeing the daily costs. I'm the one going and seeing 0:01:56.000 --> 0:01:58.160 just how much I'm getting for one hundred dollars, which 0:01:58.240 --> 0:02:00.800 is barely two bags of groceries. I'm the one usually 0:02:00.800 --> 0:02:03.000 seeing the bills come in and all of those sorts 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:05.280 of things. So and I also think to a agree 0:02:05.320 --> 0:02:07.960 that it's a lot of this fear mongering around nuclear 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:11.600 that has very much kind of, I guess potentially scared 0:02:11.639 --> 0:02:14.280 women off and they've seen the surface level of it, 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:16.320 and that's sort of, you know, really gotten to them. 0:02:16.360 --> 0:02:18.360 And when I speak to most women, and a lot 0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:19.800 of them very intelligent, a lot of them in the 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:22.160 corporate world, et cetera. To be fair to them, a 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:25.040 lot of them are as invested in finding out what 0:02:25.160 --> 0:02:28.480 nuclear is all about, right, and the impacts and you know, 0:02:28.680 --> 0:02:31.360 the safety issues surrounding it that existed were you know 0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:34.400 in the days of Fukashima and Chernobyl that we've evolved 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:36.720 from that that we do have a plant in Lucas Heights, 0:02:36.720 --> 0:02:39.480 for example, that's been running without much issue. So I 0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:42.400 think that those are the key kind of fundamental points 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:44.400 where we can see a bit of a divide there. 0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:46.680 But I'd encourage most women to have a look at 0:02:46.800 --> 0:02:49.600 nuclear and to really explore a lot around it, and 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:53.000 you'll understand why very quickly that countries like the United States, 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:55.680 why they have bipartisan support for something like this, and 0:02:55.720 --> 0:02:58.160 why it is the most reliable and stable form of 0:02:58.280 --> 0:02:59.160 energy going forward. 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:04.880 Research that's been done, Evelyn suggests that the parties neither 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:07.799 party has got policies that really appeal to women, that 0:03:07.880 --> 0:03:10.840 both parties are actually failing to reach women voters. 0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:13.680 What do you think, Yeah, it's an interesting one. 0:03:13.720 --> 0:03:17.000 I mean, if you look statistically, women tend to vote 0:03:17.000 --> 0:03:19.680 more left side of politics, and men tend to vote 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:22.639 more right, which is why if you look at American politics, they, 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:26.959 you know, the Democratic Party, focus so hardly on things 0:03:27.000 --> 0:03:28.720 that they think women are going to like, like abortion 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:33.560 and those have viv I know that's very true, but 0:03:33.760 --> 0:03:35.720 you know, I think it comes down to like the nature. 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:38.240 You know, you're not allowed to say this, it's taboo, 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:40.280 but you know, men and women are different, you know, 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:42.400 color it's shocking. 0:03:42.880 --> 0:03:44.680 I'm actually great grateful. 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:46.120 That we're able to say that live on TV. 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:48.040 Men and women are different. 0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:51.000 And I think the reason why perhaps women vote more 0:03:51.200 --> 0:03:52.800 left is because we. 0:03:52.840 --> 0:03:57.920 Are by nature more nurturing, more caring. 0:03:58.000 --> 0:04:01.680 So these socialist policies tend to tug at our heartstrings, 0:04:01.720 --> 0:04:03.560 you know, these things like well, we want to make 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:06.680 everybody not be poor, and that's a noble and moral 0:04:06.720 --> 0:04:09.040 way for us to think. But I think the anchoring 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:12.440 part is when you get like that you know, voice 0:04:12.440 --> 0:04:14.760 of reason or the reality check that that it doesn't 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:17.919 actually work out that way in the end. And perhaps, like, 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:20.080 you know, it's good that we're having these discussions so 0:04:20.120 --> 0:04:23.040 that women can learn more if they perhaps haven't heard 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:26.200 about nuclear maybe their circles haven't heard the other side 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:28.960 or the other opinion. And now that women are more 0:04:29.000 --> 0:04:32.039 aggrieved about the cost of living, which has come out 0:04:32.040 --> 0:04:36.320 of here, they can start having conversations with people outside. 0:04:35.760 --> 0:04:39.559 Of you know, their usual talking structures. 0:04:39.160 --> 0:04:41.480 And here, you know, the other side. It's not scary 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:44.120 being right wing. It's not you know, we're not demons, 0:04:44.160 --> 0:04:48.760 we're not we're not this awful wing all come exactly. 0:04:48.960 --> 0:04:51.760 And so these conversations are really good because I think 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:55.120 the women vote is so important for policies, and I 0:04:55.120 --> 0:04:57.880 think sadly we've perhaps got it so wrong because we've 0:04:57.880 --> 0:05:00.000 convinced women for such a long time that you know, 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:02.960 anyone the right basically hates them, which is not true. 0:05:03.040 --> 0:05:05.400 So good, good that this is coming out and hopefully 0:05:05.520 --> 0:05:06.279 change can happen. 0:05:06.480 --> 0:05:09.279 Well, the political wonks are very fond of saying the 0:05:09.360 --> 0:05:12.120 liberal party has got a women problem, but this research 0:05:12.200 --> 0:05:15.520 is suggesting, Lucy, both parties have got a women problem. 0:05:15.680 --> 0:05:18.760 Do you think there's a failure of politicians to connect 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:20.040 generally with women. 0:05:20.240 --> 0:05:22.400 I think it's a failure on the voter's part to 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:24.200 be honest, because, you know, and I asked the. 0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:27.360 Women, Yeah, we'll just on voters in general. 0:05:27.360 --> 0:05:29.840 And I remember asking this question the other day on 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:31.880 Talkbak radio with two GB and saying, how much do 0:05:31.960 --> 0:05:34.320 you know about the people you're voting for? And this 0:05:34.360 --> 0:05:38.800 applies to both men and women, right. I genuinely believe 0:05:38.880 --> 0:05:40.640 that a lot of people that are going to the polls, 0:05:41.160 --> 0:05:44.159 and we had this debate very much so last night 0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:45.560 about whether or not this is going to be a 0:05:45.560 --> 0:05:48.000 referendum on energy and how much the impacts of inflation, 0:05:48.080 --> 0:05:50.720 costs of living, et cetera, will wager into how they 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:54.799 cast their votes come May, if it is May. But ultimately, 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:56.560 for me, I think it's up to voters to really 0:05:56.560 --> 0:05:57.360 do their research. 0:05:57.400 --> 0:05:57.600 You know. 0:05:57.720 --> 0:06:01.440 I watched a shocking piece of footage on another program 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:04.160 a couple of weeks ago in which they were interviewing 0:06:04.200 --> 0:06:06.360 people on the streets of Melbourne and asking them who 0:06:06.360 --> 0:06:09.880 the premiere of the state was oh yeah, and people went, 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:10.440 I don't know. 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:12.279 They started showing. 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:15.560 Photographs and the girl that I how old this person? 0:06:15.800 --> 0:06:20.839 We're talking like probably twenties, twenties to thirties, probably late twenties. 0:06:21.080 --> 0:06:24.560 And they showed photographs to this young woman and. 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:26.080 Can you recognize this person? 0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:27.880 And you know what she said? She goes, she looks 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:31.039 all right, And I went, what And these are people 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:32.920 who are going to the polls that are going to 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:34.240 decide the future. 0:06:33.920 --> 0:06:34.560 Of our country. 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:37.360 That's why, you know, in America they espoused that view 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:38.840 of you know, this is one of the most important 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:41.720 and key elections of our lifetime. I very much feel 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:43.360 that way about this election for us. 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:46.400 Maybe it's our fault. Maybe it's the media. We are 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:49.960 not communicating with the right people. Are we letting down 0:06:50.000 --> 0:06:52.560 that If young people don't know, right, if the twenty 0:06:52.640 --> 0:06:59.559 year old don't watch Sky News, if they're somewhere along 0:06:59.560 --> 0:07:02.360 the line, they must be getting information, and the old 0:07:02.440 --> 0:07:04.799 news sources seem not to be playing that role. 0:07:05.480 --> 0:07:07.920 I think a lot of younger generations kind of follow 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:10.520 what their parents do, and I know, like, you know, 0:07:10.600 --> 0:07:14.560 my parents not Now I've radicalized. 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:19.040 The fifteen year old sode exists to say no, Dad, 0:07:19.040 --> 0:07:21.840 you're wrong. That's what fifteen year olds do all the time. 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:23.920 They don't follow their parents all the time. 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:27.559 But I do think and statistics do show, particularly young women, 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:30.080 they usually do what their dad does, what their father does. 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:33.760 And so what our parents of our generation used to 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:36.320 do was just basically do what our parents did and 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:39.360 who our parents voted for. And once upon a time, 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:43.000 you could trust the ABC, you could trust these mainstream 0:07:43.400 --> 0:07:46.560 media things. And I think now that there's been a shift, 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:49.800 you know, they need to start going outside. I'm not 0:07:49.800 --> 0:07:52.160 telling to be disrespectful to your parents, but look at 0:07:52.200 --> 0:07:54.920 other different news sources like Sky and news like listen 0:07:54.960 --> 0:07:58.160 to us but you and stuff. Yeah, that's right, So 0:07:58.480 --> 0:07:59.440 that's an important one. 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:02.040 Yeah, let's move on to what we will actually be 0:08:02.160 --> 0:08:04.679 voting on. And one of the issues is, as Lucy said, 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:07.440 energy And at the moment, the big switch is meant 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:09.760 to be on where there's this transition that is taking 0:08:09.840 --> 0:08:13.640 us in nice, steady, organized steps from the old coal 0:08:13.720 --> 0:08:17.600 fired power to renewable power. But is it happening. It's 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:20.520 Chris Bowen's baby. He's supposed to be organizing this, and 0:08:20.560 --> 0:08:23.360 every time he talks, he says very confident things, but 0:08:23.440 --> 0:08:27.040 the energy bosses disagree. Today, the energy bosses have called 0:08:27.080 --> 0:08:30.920 for market certainty, that's what they call it, market certainty. 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:34.800 As the nation switches towards renewables. Now they're saying they 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:36.959 want to know what's going to happen, what the plan is, 0:08:37.000 --> 0:08:39.840 and what happens next. Why are they feeling uncertain? 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:43.520 They've got every right to feel uncertain, kel because Anthony 0:08:43.559 --> 0:08:46.240 Albanezi a lah the Voice, hasn't done a very good 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:50.719 job of explaining what this path to part of me 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:53.559 to renewable energy is. Actually I'm not sure he knows. 0:08:53.600 --> 0:08:55.440 He doesn't, and it's the issue with it. 0:08:55.520 --> 0:08:55.800 Right. 0:08:56.000 --> 0:08:57.480 And the one of the key things that I took 0:08:57.480 --> 0:08:59.520 from this article that came out via the Australian Tales 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:02.280 Great Report in response to the Australian CEO Survey twenty 0:09:02.320 --> 0:09:05.760 twenty five, the leading executives warned they were seeing investors 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:09.920 pull investment from Australia into countries with more stable and 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:13.080 supportive policies. So what does that mean? Most of the 0:09:13.120 --> 0:09:16.319 top perform economies economies in the world have adopted nuclear 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:19.200 and very successfully. Right, And what we're seeing here is 0:09:19.240 --> 0:09:23.040 this petulance and this resistant resistance from the Labor Party 0:09:23.160 --> 0:09:25.559 side to acknowledge a they need to lift the moratorium, 0:09:25.880 --> 0:09:28.920 B that we need to have a transparent, educated and 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:33.800 honest discussion surrounding what the best pathway forward is. We 0:09:33.920 --> 0:09:37.000 know that renewables aren't stable, we know that they're not reliable, 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:39.720 that they aren't the cheapest form of energy, and that 0:09:39.880 --> 0:09:42.960 we need to start acknowledging these facts. Right. So there's 0:09:43.000 --> 0:09:44.880 a lot of issues surrounding this, and I think the 0:09:44.960 --> 0:09:48.480 Labor Party, unfortunately have been thrust into a situation now 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:51.040 where they're being shown for who they are when it 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:53.600 comes to this, which is very disorganized and incompetent. 0:09:54.000 --> 0:09:55.840 And these are the CEOs who sit in the board 0:09:55.920 --> 0:09:58.240 rooms and make the decisions about the money that will 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:01.280 fund the sources of energy that we have. So them 0:10:01.360 --> 0:10:04.280 being uncertain, them being unhappy is bad news. 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:07.559 It certainly is bad news. It's a massive red flag. 0:10:07.800 --> 0:10:11.079 But you know, if something is cheaper, something's more reliable, 0:10:11.120 --> 0:10:14.520 and something's more efficient, newsflash, you don't have to force 0:10:14.559 --> 0:10:15.120 it on people. 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:16.840 People will willingly go to it. 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:20.920 But the reality is it isn't cheaper, it isn't more reliable, 0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:23.400 and it isn't efficient. I don't know about people at home. 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:26.000 I've said this example before, but it's a perfect one. 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:28.320 We used to have dial up internet and then we 0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:29.920 went to broadband, and now. 0:10:29.800 --> 0:10:31.520 We have starlink. I have starlink. 0:10:31.559 --> 0:10:33.600 I think it's absolutely fabulous, especially because I live in 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:35.560 the bush and I get perfect internet. 0:10:36.200 --> 0:10:37.040 Long thank you. 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:39.360 But the thing is, no one had to put a 0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:42.160 gun to my head, or make legislation in the government, 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:44.040 or make my life a living hell. 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:44.920 To get me to that point. 0:10:45.080 --> 0:10:47.760 I willingly went to that point because it was better, 0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:50.920 it was more reliable, more efficient, and it was cheaper. 0:10:51.160 --> 0:10:52.800 It's that simple with this debate. 0:10:53.240 --> 0:10:55.640 And the force that does that is the market force. 0:10:55.880 --> 0:10:57.560 You put these things on the market and let the 0:10:57.559 --> 0:10:59.320 market decide what they want to buy and what they 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:01.880 want to pay for. But that's not happening in this case. 0:11:01.920 --> 0:11:06.320 Because renewables are so heavily subsidized, we can't tell what 0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:10.040 the market wants, and these CEOs, I assume, can't tell 0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:13.040 what the market will take because of the huge amount 0:11:13.080 --> 0:11:14.880 of government subsidies floating in this area. 0:11:15.000 --> 0:11:16.680 But this is why, Kelly, you've hit the nail on 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:19.600 the head. But this is why they're demanding more reliable 0:11:19.720 --> 0:11:23.960 and I guess clearer pathways forward on what this is 0:11:24.000 --> 0:11:27.360 going to actually look like. And unfortunately in Labour's case, 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:31.160 in particular Chris Bowen's case and his insistence on pushing 0:11:31.200 --> 0:11:35.520 renewables onto the Australian public is that it's putting it's 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:38.880 putting politics ahead of progress, right, it's not acknowledging that 0:11:38.960 --> 0:11:43.240 we do have another viewpoint, another argument in this debate, 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:46.000 which is of course nuclear energy. And I guess that 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:47.960 a lot of people have looked at it and you 0:11:48.000 --> 0:11:51.360 know some of their major concerns are around the timeframe, right, 0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:54.079 so how quickly will we be able to do this? 0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:57.160 And then it also broadens the scope to the other side, 0:11:57.200 --> 0:11:59.960 the darker side of the argument, which is depending on 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:01.319 who you speak to. I mean I caught up with 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:04.000 David little Proud from the leader of the Nationals Party, 0:12:04.200 --> 0:12:06.280 and when I put to him why it's important for 0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:09.319 us to remain in that Paris agreement, Why the coalition 0:12:09.360 --> 0:12:11.960 supports the Paris Agreement, given that we have some of 0:12:11.960 --> 0:12:14.600 the cleanest coal in the world, for example, and that 0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:17.720 we know that this time frame, this rush that labor 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:19.720 really has a sin in the scare mongering that they 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:23.120 have us in is something that isn't required. Right, we 0:12:23.240 --> 0:12:26.520 can take our time in that transition phase. But he 0:12:26.640 --> 0:12:28.600 pointed out to me and said, look, if we don't 0:12:28.920 --> 0:12:33.480 continue our I guess our partnership in our subscription to 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:35.920 the Paris Agreement, what we're going to see is an 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:38.960 increase in tariffs and that's going to hit Australian taxpayers 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:41.400 hard in their pockets. So there's a lot of kind 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:43.360 of moving parts to consider in all of this. 0:12:44.080 --> 0:12:46.520 It is, in fact that's the problem. We think if 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:48.400 we'll just pull out of the Paris Agreement, which is 0:12:48.440 --> 0:12:50.719 what Trump is quite likely to do, or abandon that 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:53.480 zero but the way the rest of the world then 0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:57.079 reacts may be not good for us. So, as David 0:12:57.080 --> 0:12:59.480 little Proud was telling Lucy, we have to take our 0:12:59.520 --> 0:13:02.319 steps seat easily while we're talking about what's happening in 0:13:02.360 --> 0:13:06.440 Australia is not quite so serious, but it's still happening. 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:09.360 There was a Melbourne couple who drove from Melbourne seventeen 0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:11.400 hundred kilometers to get up to Barren Bay. They went 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:14.079 to a beach called Tiagra Tiger was a little bit 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:16.440 north of Byron Bay and they'd heard that it was 0:13:16.480 --> 0:13:18.720 a nude bathing beach, so they went there. They took 0:13:18.720 --> 0:13:21.240 off their gear, walked onto the beach and people wearing 0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:23.839 swimmers came up to them and said, that doesn't happen 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:26.360 here anymore. So the question is, are we becoming a 0:13:26.440 --> 0:13:31.120 nation of prudes? Nude beaches shut out in the nanny state? Now, 0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:33.360 what's actually happened in this particular case. It used to 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:36.440 be under Barron Bay, a barren Shire council. They said 0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:39.400 it was optional, you didn't have to wear any clothing 0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:42.199 on the beach if you didn't want to. That was challenged, 0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:45.160 it was renewed, but suddenly New South Wales Parks and 0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:48.040 Wildlife discovered they controlled the beach. It was their beach, 0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:50.280 so they immediately said goes back to being a normal 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:53.120 beach where your swimmers. So what do we do about 0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:56.200 nude beaches? Are we being a nation of prudes? Or 0:13:56.280 --> 0:14:00.000 is this something that we suggest say it's okay these days. 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:02.800 I'm happy if you want to call me a prude, 0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:06.040 but I think it should be open to everybody. I 0:14:06.040 --> 0:14:08.040 don't think that we should have mid beaches. I happen 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:11.040 to think that we should have a high public standard. 0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:14.480 You know, they tell the government to stay out of 0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:16.960 the bedroom. Well, I would like the bedroom out of 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:20.520 public view, thank you very much. If you look at 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:22.760 a particular nude beach Enviarron Bay, I don't know if 0:14:22.800 --> 0:14:24.240 it's the same one as this, but back. 0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:25.760 In twenty seventeen there were. 0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:27.960 Multiple reports about sex pests that were. 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:29.160 Loitering around these places. 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:31.800 There was a woman who saw people performing sexual acts, 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:34.520 you know, and then another group in you know, with 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:38.080 multiple people, like a group scenario. You had men blocking 0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:41.520 women on the path. I honestly think that the world 0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:43.520 will be better if we had high standards. If you 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:46.520 reward bad behavior, you get more of it. And I 0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:51.320 think we should as a society have a high standard. 0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:53.440 And I'm more than happy you call me a prude, 0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:55.280 but I think nude beats beaches. 0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:57.560 Should be gone beach okay. 0:14:57.600 --> 0:14:59.480 And that's why there was a complaint. There was a 0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:02.560 complain to lude behavior and so they said, you know, 0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:05.680 stop it being a nude beach, and Buyern Council said no, no, no, no, 0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:07.560 it's still going to be a nude beach. But then 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:09.920 Parks and While Life said no it won't be. So 0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:12.400 are we a nation of proof. I mean, as an 0:15:12.400 --> 0:15:15.000 old family man, I come from a generation that thinks 0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:17.480 when you make a beach a nude beach, it means 0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:19.960 families can't go. And so what you're doing is you're 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:21.760 not actually creating a beach for people who want to 0:15:21.800 --> 0:15:25.160 be nudes, you're closing it for families. Am I wrong? 0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:29.440 It's an interesting one because you know, I have traveled 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:32.520 a lot in Europe and it's really quite commonplace. It 0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:35.160 hasn't been uncommon to and I go completely nude. I'll 0:15:35.200 --> 0:15:37.840 just make that clear. But it's very normal to see 0:15:37.840 --> 0:15:40.080 women kind of walking around topless. I mean, you don't 0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:43.560 necessarily see men completely nude. But it's interesting how we 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:46.840 have completely kind of different cultural views when it comes 0:15:46.920 --> 0:15:51.040 to this. I completely disagree with any forms of solicitation 0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:53.520 or issues or sex pests floating around. I think once 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:55.640 that becomes an issue, shut it down. And the other 0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:58.600 school of thought also in this is that you know 0:15:58.800 --> 0:16:01.240 they're public beach is right, So I guess if you 0:16:01.320 --> 0:16:03.800 know that it's a nude beach, you know what you're 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:05.200 going to be getting when you get there. But is 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:08.280 it fair to completely shut down a nude beach? 0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:12.640 Actually also to find around nude that's anywhere else. 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:14.880 Well, that's true, But you know, is it completely fair 0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:16.440 to shut down a beach and say, well, no, if 0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:19.320 you don't want to come here nude and be an exhibitionist, 0:16:19.400 --> 0:16:20.400 then you can't come. 0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:22.880 I mean, that's I have a view that if it's 0:16:22.920 --> 0:16:25.000 a nudist beach, I'm not going to be going there. 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:26.400 I'm not going to be visiting there. You know, I'm 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:26.880 not going to be. 0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:29.400 Going on gluing myself on the hard walk shut down 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:30.240 on the nude beaches. 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:32.520 But you want to know ahead of time if that's 0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:34.040 what you going to be coomed. 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:34.040 That's right. 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:37.040 But yeah, in a perfect well you're finding very quickly kell. 0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:39.880 Not hard to get. 0:16:40.000 --> 0:16:41.680 It doesn't take you long if you go there to 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:44.160 work out what's going on. Let's turn to what's happening 0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:47.040 in the world of employment, which is also changing. We're 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:48.640 told that the things that are happening in the world 0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:51.480 of employment will be different in twenty twenty five, and 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:53.760 one of the things that will be different will be diversity, 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:55.600 equity and inclusion. 0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:58.400 That's the de Well my band words we did this week. 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:01.000 Well, they've said that there's a lot of hype about 0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:05.359 what's changing in workplaces and this will change. Now a 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:08.400 lot of companies are now saying they're not so much 0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:13.159 abandoning diversity, equity inclusion the DEI, but they're going to 0:17:13.240 --> 0:17:16.600 change the way it operates, some very large companies, so 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:21.680 they've announced changes to these programs so you won't be 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:24.440 chosen for a job necessarily on the basis that you're 0:17:24.480 --> 0:17:28.520 the right gender or the right race or whatever. Are 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:31.560 they going to really move away from DEI? Do you think, Lucy, 0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:33.000 or is this just a smoke scheme. 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:34.960 You're a word smith, and you know all of the 0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:37.920 wonderful cliches that we have, and we discussed this earlier. 0:17:37.960 --> 0:17:39.960 If you polish a turn or put lipstick on a pig, 0:17:39.960 --> 0:17:42.040 it's still a pig, and it's still a turd. I 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:44.399 don't know that they're necessarily going to move entirely away 0:17:44.440 --> 0:17:46.439 from this. It's something that they have created as a 0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:50.119 pillar in an attempt to try and you know, showcase 0:17:50.160 --> 0:17:53.399 to everybody just how virtuous they are. I want the 0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:57.200 person for the job that is rewarded with the job 0:17:57.240 --> 0:17:59.600 based on merit, right, That's who I want for the job. 0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:02.119 And I think that's really critical and key you know, 0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:04.879 I speak to someone that specializes in government contracts and 0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:07.880 she said it's an absolute nightmare for her because she 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:10.560 has gotten requests where she said, I look down at 0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:13.920 the paperents as well, we're looking for an indigenous engineer. Well, 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:16.280 I mean, but based on what I mean, there have 0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:18.560 been job adds that again that I saw this week 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:23.160 that are targeting specifically in people from indigenous communities, right, 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:25.760 which I think is just it's a total kind of 0:18:25.920 --> 0:18:28.719