Speaker 1: I good a team. It's Harps and Bobby. Welcome to
Speaker 1: another installment the You Project. It's beautiful. It's beautiful, warm
Speaker 1: day here in Melbos. It's Thursday, but from tomorrow it
Speaker 1: turns cold. It seems like winter is in bound. What's
Speaker 1: the temperature over in San Diego, Robert?
Speaker 2: I think maybe I haven't been outside for a little bit,
Speaker 2: but I think it's about fifteen degrees right now. Yeah, Well, we're.
Speaker 1: On the We're heading towards the cool. You're heading towards
Speaker 1: the warm, although California is always recently warm. How have
Speaker 1: you been? What is up? What is new? How are you?
Speaker 1: How is the GLW the good Lady Wife? How is work?
Speaker 1: Give us a snapshot of you before we dive into
Speaker 1: today's topic without diving.
Speaker 2: Into it in too much detail. Just got a lot
Speaker 2: of plates spinning right now. Mmm, so yeah, you just go.
Speaker 1: Are you better with a small to do list or
Speaker 1: a big to do list? Are you happier? Do you
Speaker 1: perform better when there's a lot on that list or
Speaker 1: maybe somewhere between a lot and a little somewhere between?
Speaker 1: I think like it's not.
Speaker 2: With this vast assortment of tasks to complete, what significant projects,
Speaker 2: like when my head's buried in something that requires a
Speaker 2: lot of creativity and focus and there's not a lot
Speaker 2: of uh, there's not a lot of disruption. I don't
Speaker 2: do very well when like like moving house and things
Speaker 2: like that. That is a massive distractor for me. But yeah,
Speaker 2: if everything everything's stable, when I'm doing things that I
Speaker 2: could focus, I could create, you know, I could kind
Speaker 2: of like lose myself in that. That's where I thrive.
Speaker 1: It's trying to It's funny because there's no particular model
Speaker 1: or no particular protocol or whatever that will suit everyone.
Speaker 1: You know, Like some people live in this place. They
Speaker 1: hate it. Some people love it. Some people do that job,
Speaker 1: even if it's same environment with the same boss, they
Speaker 1: don't dig it. It's not for them. Someone else it's
Speaker 1: their happy place. And I think a lot, both internally
Speaker 1: and also out loud about this idea of life design
Speaker 1: and creating a life, the totality of all the bits
Speaker 1: and pieces of the craigjigs, or you know, all the
Speaker 1: Craigs life jigs, or all the bits and pieces that
Speaker 1: influence you know, my experiences and you know my productivity
Speaker 1: and my relationships and my finances and where I live
Speaker 1: and all of those things, and how there's no set formula.
Speaker 1: In fact, there's probably a different formula when you're twenty
Speaker 1: five than when you're fifty, I guess. But I had
Speaker 1: two conversations yesterday, and I've had thousands over the years,
Speaker 1: but two that same essentially the same thing to happen
Speaker 1: to be too ladies. But it could have easily just
Speaker 1: as easily been two blokes, one on zoom, one face
Speaker 1: to face. And the thing was essentially, I've I everything
Speaker 1: that I have is nice. It's like it's okay, my
Speaker 1: life is not bad. I've got enough of this and
Speaker 1: enough of that. But in the mid but there's no
Speaker 1: there's no joy, there's no kind of deep meaning. I
Speaker 1: don't feel like I really have a purpose. I'm not
Speaker 1: sure if I even want to live in the area
Speaker 1: that you know, all of these kind of life design
Speaker 1: thoughts and questions. And one lady said that, the other
Speaker 1: lady said, I, I don't love my job pays me
Speaker 1: quite well, I don't love it. I want to do
Speaker 1: something else, but I don't know what the something else is.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: So the whole idea of like I think this is
Speaker 1: just my thought. I want your comment, Terry. I think
Speaker 1: a lot of people kind of live a version of
Speaker 1: groundhog Day in that they do a lot today of
Speaker 1: what they did yesterday, even if yesterday wasn't particularly productive
Speaker 1: or effective or joyful. You know, because we're in certain psychological, emotional,
Speaker 1: and behavioral grooves. We just do this this way because
Speaker 1: this is what we did the last two thousand days
Speaker 1: of our lives. Sounds like a series. So then trying
Speaker 1: to find a level of awareness, self awareness, situational awareness,
Speaker 1: all the awarenesses in the middle of the groundhog danis
Speaker 1: of me and to think, all right, well, if I
Speaker 1: continue on my current trajectory, good or bad, what's my
Speaker 1: life going to be like when I'm you know, sixty
Speaker 1: or fifty five or fifty or whatever the case is
Speaker 1: for the individual, Like, if I keep doing what I'm
Speaker 1: doing effectively the way that I'm doing it, in the
Speaker 1: place that I'm doing it, in the body that i'm
Speaker 1: doing it, in the relationship that I'm doing it, in
Speaker 1: the financials, you know, what's what's that going to look like?
Speaker 1: And does that make me happy or sad? So I
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about the nuts and bolts of zooming
Speaker 1: back a little bit into the macro of life design
Speaker 1: and all the moving pieces. And before we get into it, everyone,
Speaker 1: I want to say, this is not a set protocol
Speaker 1: or plan, and we're just talking about the concept and
Speaker 1: Bobby what he's done and where he's been, and the
Speaker 1: same for me and the people that we've coached. So
Speaker 1: do you talk to people broadly about the creating a
Speaker 1: life that works for them.
Speaker 2: All the time?
Speaker 1: Big picture stuff.
Speaker 2: All the time, And sometimes it's not big spectra. Sometimes
Speaker 2: it's something very focal, something aimed and in near future.
Speaker 2: But other times, you know it, it's more of a
Speaker 2: higher view, higher perspective. I wonder how much of what
Speaker 2: we get stuck in is based on our expectations. Where
Speaker 2: we're supposed to have this plan, we're supposed to know,
Speaker 2: and if I don't know, I feel stuck because what
Speaker 2: does that mean? Like I assigned some meaning to that
Speaker 2: where And I think for a lot of people that
Speaker 2: works for other people that people that have had this
Speaker 2: conversation with and people quite close to me who I
Speaker 2: really love. You get the feeling almost that there's that
Speaker 2: they're operating on the principle should well, I should be here,
Speaker 2: I should be doing this and I should be doing
Speaker 2: this in this order, in this timeline. And that's fine
Speaker 2: if it keeps you, if it keeps you structure, or
Speaker 2: if it's something that is intrinsically moving you or something
Speaker 2: that you intrinsically value. But what if it's not, And
Speaker 2: then if you're stuck and it's like like you're saying, ah,
Speaker 2: I'm doing the same things every day, but I don't
Speaker 2: have this sense of joy. Well, what would a sense
Speaker 2: of joy mean? Like, what would be different about life
Speaker 2: if you had this sense of joy? What is having
Speaker 2: a sense of joy mean to you? And what is
Speaker 2: not having a sense of joy mean? Maybe it's about
Speaker 2: staying curious. I feel like the older I get, the
Speaker 2: more this value around curiosity shows up for me. And
Speaker 2: it's not that I'm not curious. I'm very curious. I
Speaker 2: think one of my highest values is love of learning,
Speaker 2: which is driven by curiosity. But the value of curiosity
Speaker 2: and the willingness to explore and not have a very
Speaker 2: strong opinion or dogma even worse about what that exploration
Speaker 2: means or should mean, Like what are you interested in?
Speaker 2: What catches your attention? Because I think like when you're
Speaker 2: in momentum, how many times have you heard a story like
Speaker 2: this where I was going one direction and then you know,
Speaker 2: I just got this summer job, and I just got
Speaker 2: it because I needed the money, had nothing to do
Speaker 2: with anything I was interested in. And then I met
Speaker 2: this other person in this field, and this event happened
Speaker 2: not planned at all, seemingly for the person on the
Speaker 2: other end of this story, random at the time, but
Speaker 2: that unlocked something, and then I went in that direction,
Speaker 2: and then I discovered this about myself. Have you heard
Speaker 2: that story, Craig?
Speaker 1: Hmmm, yes?
Speaker 2: What? What about? What?
Speaker 1: But I understand, but what about someone who knows this
Speaker 1: is not the life I want to be in? How
Speaker 1: did they begin to figure out maybe what a do
Speaker 1: they want? And I guess curiosity is a big part
Speaker 1: of that. But then not even knowing which direction to
Speaker 1: step in, how do we perhaps find a bit of
Speaker 1: clarity around that? And I understand all your thoughts around
Speaker 1: expectations and stuff, But like I know many people I'm
Speaker 1: sure you do, did do, I should say, who were
Speaker 1: doing a certain thing and life was a bit blah
Speaker 1: And then they opened a new door or moved into
Speaker 1: a new area of work or passion or religion or lifestyle.
Speaker 1: Or something, and they're like different people and it's not
Speaker 1: an act, and it's not for three weeks. It's like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, you are you found your thing? You
Speaker 1: found your thing, and some people are going, I want
Speaker 1: to find a fucking thing because you know, I pay
Speaker 1: the bills, and but other than that, there's not a
Speaker 1: whole lot of I don't know. I don't feel fulfilled.
Speaker 1: I don't feel like I have a purpose. How do
Speaker 1: we begin to practically, you know, rather than staying in
Speaker 1: a situation that we don't love and trying to convince
Speaker 1: ourselves we love it. Not that you were suggesting that,
Speaker 1: but how do we practically begin to get clarity around
Speaker 1: what might work for us, what direction we should what
Speaker 1: door we should open.
Speaker 2: So, I mean, everybody's different, So I hesitate to prescribe
Speaker 2: because where you are in your life is different, your
Speaker 2: needs are different, just just your makeup of you being
Speaker 2: you is different. And then there's context. But a couple
Speaker 2: of things that we can extrapolate from the scenario that
Speaker 2: you're laying out is I suspect there's this thing out
Speaker 2: there for me. I'm frustrated because I don't know what
Speaker 2: this thing actually is. I want to have this thing.
Speaker 2: I want to be that person. It's not like, hey,
Speaker 2: you know, I don't know what my thing is and
Speaker 2: I'm totally satisfied with that. I'm just doing I'm just
Speaker 2: doing my thing. I don't think there is a thing. No,
Speaker 2: this is something you want and something you value. So
Speaker 2: if there's something I value like this pen, okay, exactly
Speaker 2: the same thing as a life purpose. Yeah, but I
Speaker 2: go into my office tomorrow and I can't find it.
Speaker 2: I'm in the same situation. There's something I really value
Speaker 2: and I don't know where it is. Logically, what would
Speaker 2: be the simplest recommendation anyone can make to me?
Speaker 1: Either God, look for it or get a new one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe go look for it, like, go look for it,
Speaker 2: or go out and get another pen. And you know,
Speaker 2: see if that thing has equal value, so you got
Speaker 2: to go explore a little bit. So one maybe it's
Speaker 2: it's letting go of that attachment. I should know what
Speaker 2: that thing is, Like, what are you curious about? Yeah,
Speaker 2: when you're on social media, a lot of times adverts
Speaker 2: will pop up, and those adverts are really interesting, like
Speaker 2: pay attention because a lot of times those adverts correlate
Speaker 2: with what you're searching for. So this week, as an example,
Speaker 2: I'm going to you with Amy, the two of us
Speaker 2: are going to a two day, all day public speaking
Speaker 2: skills development seminar. Well, why am I going to that
Speaker 2: in the middle of a move, in the middle of
Speaker 2: drowning in multiple projects at work, and in the middle
Speaker 2: of preparing for a pretty intense exam, because I'm interested
Speaker 2: in that shit? And how did they know that I
Speaker 2: was interested in that? Because obviously I guess I was
Speaker 2: looking at pages and posts related to public speaking, related
Speaker 2: to performing, related to communication, and I was like, shit,
Speaker 2: why not. It's in my neighborhood. I could walk to
Speaker 2: this thing. So what pops up that you could test out,
Speaker 2: like take a class, go see a seminar, go visit something,
Speaker 2: do something that's different than what you normally do. So
Speaker 2: we say, like, it's like groundhog Day, Well what does
Speaker 2: that mean to you? Right? Because even in Groundhog Day,
Speaker 2: like and I don't know, there's there's different interpretations of
Speaker 2: how long Bill Murray was actually in that day. Some
Speaker 2: of the interpretations were it wasn't thirty days, it was
Speaker 2: a long long time, it was like years. He did
Speaker 2: something vastly different every day It's like he tried, he
Speaker 2: experimented with some crazy shit until he discovered like what
Speaker 2: that pattern meant to him and what he needed to
Speaker 2: do to get out of it. So yeah, maybe try
Speaker 2: a little bit of that. I mean, you know, don't
Speaker 2: go punching a guy named Ned in the face. That's
Speaker 2: probably rude. But maybe learn how to play the piano. Like,
Speaker 2: because if if you weren't in that Groundhog Day, what
Speaker 2: do you think you'd be doing? Because like, I don't
Speaker 2: know what I'm doing? Then why does it matter? But
Speaker 2: what type of life would you like to have? Pick
Speaker 2: somebody like who has that life? You're like, oh, I
Speaker 2: want to find that thing? Well, yeah, how can they
Speaker 2: set a vicarious example? What are some of the skills
Speaker 2: that person has? Maybe maybe I'm wishing that I could
Speaker 2: be like Craig Hopper and do podcasts, you know, and
Speaker 2: then to go out and speak.
Speaker 1: What about I said, don't do that? What about? What
Speaker 1: about the idea of breaking our life down into the
Speaker 1: different components? And we go and we start to do
Speaker 1: a bit of a reflection, self reflection, try to find
Speaker 1: some awareness and almost like a stock take, like where
Speaker 1: am I at? How things go on? And then as
Speaker 1: objective as we can be, which is not very But
Speaker 1: with that in mind, what's my body telling me? Right now?
Speaker 1: What's my body telling me? And am I happy with
Speaker 1: what it's telling me? Do I need to change? How
Speaker 1: do I need to change? What do I need to
Speaker 1: do more of? What do I need to do less of?
Speaker 1: What's my marriage telling me? What's my partner telling me?
Speaker 1: How am I feeling about that? What am I doing well?
Speaker 1: Maybe not so well? What do I need from this?
Speaker 1: What can I interpret from just the objective data that
Speaker 1: I'm getting? Or then my career? What's my relationshipship with
Speaker 1: my career? What's the impact of my career on my mental,
Speaker 1: emotional and nervous systems? Like how am I in terms
Speaker 1: of you know, I talk about learning is one of
Speaker 1: my key values and blah blah blah blah blah. What
Speaker 1: am I proactively doing in some kind of strategic way
Speaker 1: to keep learning, to keep using my brain, to build
Speaker 1: my brain muscles to make sure that as I head
Speaker 1: into my fifties, sixties and beyond, I'm still cognitively optimal
Speaker 1: for me? What am I doing financially? Am I always struggling? Like?
Speaker 1: What needs you know, where we kind of go have
Speaker 1: a look at all of these different bits and pieces
Speaker 1: that make up my life, and then without self clothing
Speaker 1: or without you know, self sabotage or throwing yourself under
Speaker 1: the emotional and psychological bust, just go yeah, yeah I
Speaker 1: could do this better or that better.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: So it's just an awareness thing. And but then am
Speaker 1: I prepared to do that work? Like there's so many
Speaker 1: people who want you know, they know they're not in
Speaker 1: shape the shape they want to be, whether or not
Speaker 1: that's relational or financial, or professional or physiological. Right, but
Speaker 1: then there's the year, But will I do the work?
Speaker 1: Because the work is long and painful and hard some
Speaker 1: of it anyway, So what.
Speaker 3: About that overall idea of like a you know, like
Speaker 3: a live stock take or you know, a pause button
Speaker 3: and a checklist.
Speaker 2: A couple of things that are pop it into my mind.
Speaker 2: First is what you probably don't want to do, which
Speaker 2: is take a look at all the dimensions of your
Speaker 2: life and try to improve all of them, tackle that
Speaker 2: all at once, because that can that can be overwhelming,
Speaker 2: and you know, it can also create a lot of anxiety,
Speaker 2: which creates stories that just not saying they're inaccurate but
Speaker 2: they're not necessarily the truth. Second thing is what's the
Speaker 2: order in which you're tackling those dimensions. Where I would
Speaker 2: start is what dimension of your life are you absolutely
Speaker 2: doing the best at? Are you the most proud of?
Speaker 2: Because that speaks to self advocacy, confidence, and it speaks
Speaker 2: to creativity because you're starting with exploring an area that
Speaker 2: gives you life, that helps you discover straints, that helps
Speaker 2: you identify what is your blueprint for when you do
Speaker 2: something well? So now you're more open, like the more
Speaker 2: you feel like if you start off at like, oh god,
Speaker 2: where is my life a mess? Like I'm great in
Speaker 2: my relationships, but I'm just about broke, I'm gonna focus
Speaker 2: on that, You're probably not going to have the resourcefulness,
Speaker 2: the creativity, and the resilience to really explore that and
Speaker 2: engage in constructive actions. So the first is where you
Speaker 2: the best. The second level is what is the most
Speaker 2: pervasive dimension of my life? So I'll give me an example.
Speaker 2: Gallops Global Research points to the number one predictor and
Speaker 2: driver of well being both is workplace satisfaction. Why, well,
Speaker 2: it's not just that. So much of my identity for
Speaker 2: a lot of people is wrapped up in work. It's
Speaker 2: not that just so much of my time and my
Speaker 2: life is spent at work. But look at all of
Speaker 2: the other dimensions of well being that that supports. If
Speaker 2: I have high workplace satisfaction, I probably have a couple
Speaker 2: of relationships at that job that's rewarding. So that's another
Speaker 2: dimension of well being right there. Yeah, I'm probably doing
Speaker 2: okay financially, so that supports financial wellbeing. Because I'm doing
Speaker 2: okay financially, I probably don't live in a neighborhood that
Speaker 2: I absolutely hate, so I have community wellbeing. So it's
Speaker 2: almost like that that rate limiting step. It's which area,
Speaker 2: which dimension in my life. If I were to elevate
Speaker 2: the level at which I engage or perform in it
Speaker 2: would have an ancillary impact on all the other areas.
Speaker 2: And then it could be I think the third the
Speaker 2: third source of exploration, where do I feel I need
Speaker 2: the most help? So where am I really good at
Speaker 2: this two? What has the most pervasive impact on other
Speaker 2: dimensions of my life? Tackle that for a bet, and
Speaker 2: then okay, where could I use the most help? Where
Speaker 2: if I elevated this it would make a significant difference
Speaker 2: a year from.
Speaker 1: Now, I love it. What about what about individually identifying
Speaker 1: for me, for you, for the listener? What is success?
Speaker 1: Because obviously success is a different thing for different people, right,
Speaker 1: and success might be seventeen different things for you could
Speaker 1: show up in a lot of different ways. Some people
Speaker 1: could go, I'm earning one thousand dollars a week. That's
Speaker 1: mind blowing. This is more money than I've ever made.
Speaker 1: This is incredible. And some people are like, what do
Speaker 1: you mean a thousand dollars? How do you even live
Speaker 1: on that? Like that's subsistence, you know, that's like that, right,
Speaker 1: Or somebody else runs ten kilometers in fifty minutes and
Speaker 1: thinks they're a superstar, which, by the way, if you
Speaker 1: do that, well done, that's pretty good. And somebody else
Speaker 1: runs the same distance five minutes quicker, and they're flat
Speaker 1: and depressed because they expected to do forty you know.
Speaker 1: So it's like the experience of success is almost something
Speaker 1: that we create based on our story of success. So
Speaker 1: you know, the idea of well, if I could, if
Speaker 1: I could just have more of this, or do less
Speaker 1: of that, or experience less of that, or experience more
Speaker 1: of that, then I will be good. So I think
Speaker 1: also getting clear on you know, the old, boring old
Speaker 1: what do I want and why do I want it?
Speaker 1: And why does it matter? And how do I get it?
Speaker 1: You know, or how do I create it? Because I
Speaker 1: think that a lot of us kind of almost adopt
Speaker 1: the group think of successes stuff. Success is what you
Speaker 1: have and own and earn, and what you're driving, where
Speaker 1: you live, and what people think you and you know,
Speaker 1: which is saying none of those are bad, of course,
Speaker 1: But then you know lots of people. I know lots
Speaker 1: of people who've got all the stuff. They've got all
Speaker 1: the stuff, they got all the things. From the outside
Speaker 1: looking in, you're like, wow, you are successful. If we're
Speaker 1: talking about what is the metric in our culture or
Speaker 1: our society or our media or social media, you're ticking
Speaker 1: all the boxes. But within that inner experience, not what
Speaker 1: people see, but what people don't see, Well, they're sad,
Speaker 1: they're lonely, they're disconnected, they're medicated for anxiety, depression, sleeplessness,
Speaker 1: and despite the appearance of success, they're miserable as fuck.
Speaker 1: So I think it's kind of almost factoring in my
Speaker 1: inner world where I really live and my outer world
Speaker 1: where life happens.
Speaker 2: I think the best definition that I've ever heard about success,
Speaker 2: The most resonant one was from Erl Natingal in The
Speaker 2: Stranger's Secret, where success is the progressive realization of a
Speaker 2: worthy goal or ideal. So I love that because the
Speaker 2: only one who can identify what is a worthy life giving,
Speaker 2: energizing goal or not even a goal, not even something
Speaker 2: that you arrive at or accomplish ideal, something that you're
Speaker 2: always striving for, you never arriving at. So I love
Speaker 2: that thing, you know, always striving, never arriving Like that
Speaker 2: to me is success. And then all of those other things,
Speaker 2: the outcomes, those aren't success. That's a consequence of being successful,
Speaker 2: and that shows up in your inner world, in your
Speaker 2: outer world. So, because we talked about this recently, like
Speaker 2: you ask most people, oh, I just want to be
Speaker 2: really happy, Well, do you remember a time and you
Speaker 2: know whether it's it's a fabricator embellish time. A lot
Speaker 2: of people have this time in their life where, based
Speaker 2: on how they shape their memories and interpret them, this
Speaker 2: was it. So do you remember a time in your
Speaker 2: life we knew the most happy? Somebody recalls it and
Speaker 2: it's not like, oh, it's when I had the nicest car.
Speaker 2: It's when my house was the biggest. A lot of times,
Speaker 2: it's when you were on the journey, you were on
Speaker 2: the way. It's not when you got somewhere, it's when
Speaker 2: you were going somewhere. And it's almost that cliche story
Speaker 2: of like, oh, honey, you remember, do you remember we
Speaker 2: had that one room flat and we didn't even have furniture.
Speaker 2: We slept on our mattress on the ground. Oh we
Speaker 2: drank cheap wine at night. But man, were we happy.
Speaker 2: It's like stories like that, And maybe that's romanticizing it.
Speaker 2: Maybe you know you were actually miserable, maybe that mattress
Speaker 2: was lumpy, But I think there's a lot of truth
Speaker 2: to that.
Speaker 1: Greig Dude, I'm so I so love that quote from Nightingale,
Speaker 1: and I think, like, essentially what that's saying is it's
Speaker 1: about the journey, not the destination. And then I think
Speaker 1: practically about the people that I've worked with in like
Speaker 1: in small ways but also big ways, where like how
Speaker 1: many people you worked as a train for a long time,
Speaker 1: how many people were weighed in, you know, in your language,
Speaker 1: two hundred pounds and they wanted to be you know,
Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty pounds and then over time they
Speaker 1: ate different, Da da da, They did it all they
Speaker 1: got to one fifty pounds, and they were just as insecure,
Speaker 1: just as unhappy. Like it didn't matter what where they got,
Speaker 1: they always wanted to be somewhere else. It's like I
Speaker 1: have a saying that it's like, no matter where we are,
Speaker 1: it's not where we want to be, you know, because
Speaker 1: we've always got this when I have, when I do,
Speaker 1: when I and that the amount of people that had
Speaker 1: what I call it destination disappointment is they get where
Speaker 1: they thought they or they wanted to be. They created
Speaker 1: this external thing, a brand of business, a bank account,
Speaker 1: a look, a shape, a size, a weight, a reputation,
Speaker 1: a brand, or they created this thing that everyone could see,
Speaker 1: and then the thing that no one can see is
Speaker 1: that internal world. There wasn't a corresponding win. It's like,
Speaker 1: but I'm meant to feel great now because I did
Speaker 1: the thing, and look at me. I look good and
Speaker 1: I have stuff and I can pay bills and people
Speaker 1: like me, and yeah, but nonetheless, my reality is anxiety
Speaker 1: or sadness or you know. But when you've got that focus,
Speaker 1: when you're working towards that thing and you're excited and
Speaker 1: you're curious, and you're making decisions, and you're growing and
Speaker 1: you're learning, and you're being challenged and you're fucking up
Speaker 1: and you're getting up and you're building resilience and insight
Speaker 1: and skill. Like that's fucking great. But then to get
Speaker 1: there and go I'm finished now, I'm just going to
Speaker 1: sit here and be successful doesn't work.
Speaker 2: That's really poignant. I feel like at some level, our
Speaker 2: layers or the pursuit of alignment and fulfillment of our
Speaker 2: values and avoidance of things that threaten those values. And
Speaker 2: a lot of times those patterns don't make sense if
Speaker 2: we don't know what those values are. And you're talking
Speaker 2: about something people have heard a thousand times, someone who
Speaker 2: pursued something they thought they should want for whatever reason
Speaker 2: they thought they should have it. They got there and like, wait,
Speaker 2: this is so dissatisfying because they never understood what the
Speaker 2: attainment of that thing represents. And I think another story
Speaker 2: we hear, maybe not as often, but it also reflects
Speaker 2: the same points about the alignment or misalignment of our
Speaker 2: values is somebody has the worst something they think is
Speaker 2: the worst thing that could ever happen to them. And
Speaker 2: it turns out to be the best. So here's an
Speaker 2: example of it. I used to work with this lady
Speaker 2: who was a leader in a major organization, and like
Speaker 2: I loved her. I just found her intellect, her sense
Speaker 2: of humor, her her sense of ethics to be exhilarating.
Speaker 2: Loved being around this person, loved working with her. And
Speaker 2: she was one of these people who early in her life,
Speaker 2: people who cared about her were very concerned she wasn't
Speaker 2: serious about a direction. She wasn't this disciplined, principled person.
Speaker 2: She was someone who was very much stuck in doing
Speaker 2: her own things, her own patterns, and was a party girl.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying the same thing wrong with just going
Speaker 2: out there and partying, but her looking back, that's not
Speaker 2: a reflection of who she was proud of and who
Speaker 2: she wanted to be. And then she's with this guy.
Speaker 2: She gets pregnant and they're like, Okay, maybe we should
Speaker 2: get married. It's the day of her wedding. She shows
Speaker 2: up for her wedding, pregnant guy doesn't show up, stands
Speaker 2: her up at the altar. So now in front of everybody,
Speaker 2: she stood up, loses the guy. He disappears she's pregnant.
Speaker 2: She thinks, this is the worst possible thing that could
Speaker 2: ever happen to me. I don't know how I'm going
Speaker 2: to support this kid. I don't know what my life
Speaker 2: is going to look like. Everything. I love everything, I
Speaker 2: enjoy everything on whit it's over now, and she has
Speaker 2: the baby, and they put the baby. She has a girl,
Speaker 2: They put her daughter on her ches.
Speaker 1: Better have a happy ending, motherfucker, because right now I'm
Speaker 1: pretty sad.
Speaker 2: Did did you Did you miss the part when I
Speaker 2: said I loved working with this person? Yeah, all those,
Speaker 2: all those qualities. She looks at her daughter and has
Speaker 2: this this realization that she is more in love with
Speaker 2: this thing than she ever thought she could love anything before. Wow.
Speaker 2: And she wants to nurture and she wants to cultivate
Speaker 2: and develop and shape this life more than anything. And
Speaker 2: so she starts focusing on her career. She starts excelling
Speaker 2: in her career. She starts like this person had no
Speaker 2: business experience, starts buying houses, flipping houses like accumulating you know,
Speaker 2: a lot of wealth in the process, and just becomes
Speaker 2: this driven, resourceful, dynamic human being with a strong sense
Speaker 2: of purpose and a pretty clear compass, and it all
Speaker 2: happened because the worst thing she can imagine happened to her.
Speaker 2: But if that never happened to her, it would have
Speaker 2: never pulled the veil back on what is she truly
Speaker 2: valued and wanted to be? So it comes down to values.
Speaker 1: Also what is she capable of? Like she she tapped
Speaker 1: into this potential and power that maybe she might not
Speaker 1: have for a long time if ever, because she was
Speaker 1: in a situation where you can't you can't opt out,
Speaker 1: like you can't go, oh, I don't want to be
Speaker 1: a single pregnant or you know, woman at the altar,
Speaker 1: or don't I don't want to be a single mum.
Speaker 1: And it's like, well you are. You are a single
Speaker 1: mum and this is your reality and it won't change.
Speaker 1: And she went all right, well I better figure it out.
Speaker 1: Whereas had there been a different situation or scenario, yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe that would have even though it would have seemed
Speaker 1: better in the moment, maybe it would have been worse
Speaker 1: over time.
Speaker 2: And what's interesting is what did not happen. Because this
Speaker 2: was a person who everyone around her thought she was undisciplined, unmotivated, directionless, selfish,
Speaker 2: like all of these things and it's not like she
Speaker 2: decided I'm gonna get my shit together. It's not like,
Speaker 2: you know, she listened to a podcast or read a book,
Speaker 2: or went to a course, you know, or pulled herself
Speaker 2: up by her own bootstraps. She was confronted with a
Speaker 2: value system that was critical to her that she wasn't
Speaker 2: able to identify beforehand. And then all of these attributes
Speaker 2: that we associate and that we would name as being
Speaker 2: critical to quote unquote success, they spontaneously showed up. Maybe
Speaker 2: not that day. I don't think she like took the
Speaker 2: kid home and like flipped the house by the end
Speaker 2: of the week. But it happened right then and there
Speaker 2: in that hospital. And it's extremely impressive, and it's so
Speaker 2: encouraging because you want that for people, right, Like, is
Speaker 2: that such a great story? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I love that. But also what it tells us is
Speaker 1: when we're backed into a corner, really backed into a corner,
Speaker 1: either literally or we think we're backed into a corner,
Speaker 1: we can do some amazing shit. Like you said, it's
Speaker 1: not like she did a course. It's not like she had,
Speaker 1: you know, any particular resources or help in a massive way, perhaps,
Speaker 1: but she was just found herself in a situation where
Speaker 1: she was going to sink or swim, and she found
Speaker 1: a way. And it's like, that's it's amazing how much
Speaker 1: we see people do and what they're capable of when
Speaker 1: there's a version of a catastrophe or a level of
Speaker 1: a catastrophe in their life where they just need to
Speaker 1: adapt and adjust and just crack on and figure it out,
Speaker 1: because the alternative is capitulation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I agree with you, I just I just
Speaker 2: want to point out one distinction. I'm not saying that
Speaker 2: when you're in that situation, this is what is expected
Speaker 2: or works for everyone, because sometimes people are spread so
Speaker 2: thin and they are just hanging on. So Amy directed
Speaker 2: a documentary. It was an Emmy Emmy Award winning documentary
Speaker 2: about soldiers who had come back, you know, from combat
Speaker 2: veterans and they were struggling with PTSD and how hard
Speaker 2: that was. And somebody in that situation gets into a
Speaker 2: situation where the backs up against the wall. And these
Speaker 2: are some of the toughest, most resilient, brave, you know,
Speaker 2: courageous people in our society, and that situation breaks them, yes,
Speaker 2: rather than galvanizes them or propels them. And it's not
Speaker 2: because of a moral failing. And it's definitely not because
Speaker 2: they're a weak person. Like these people represent the opposite
Speaker 2: of weakness in our society. So I'm not saying that
Speaker 2: that's the expectation that if your backs up against the wall,
Speaker 2: you should do that. What I am saying, I think
Speaker 2: you're saying as well, is when you identify what you
Speaker 2: value and there is an extraordinary circumstance that moves you
Speaker 2: out of your comfort zone, it disrupts the status quo
Speaker 2: to whereas there is an urgency meeting a sense of
Speaker 2: clarity around your value system that could be that could
Speaker 2: be spectacular in ways that you can amaze yourself and
Speaker 2: reinvent yourself and discover things about yourself that probably will
Speaker 2: always there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I totally agree, And I wasn't suggesting. Maybe it
Speaker 1: sounded like it, but I yeah, I know you were it.
Speaker 2: It didn't sound like you were. I just wanted to
Speaker 2: make sure that that's not what I was saying.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, there's so many people that that go
Speaker 1: through a hard problem and that hard problem becomes a
Speaker 1: bigger problem mentally and emotionally for a while. And that's
Speaker 1: totally understandable too. But but I think often, you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes to often, I guess, is that we learn and
Speaker 1: grow through the ship that we didn't actually want, you know,
Speaker 1: I know for me in business, you know, in financial stuff,
Speaker 1: in uh, social experience as being the fatterest skid at
Speaker 1: school and all of that ship that wasn't that great
Speaker 1: or pleasant. It actually for me was a fuel source
Speaker 1: and it didn't always work out great and it wasn't
Speaker 1: always pleasant. But I think a lot of my especially
Speaker 1: early development and understanding and awareness and insight came from
Speaker 1: being in hard things and then figuring out, what do
Speaker 1: I do with these hard things? What do I do
Speaker 1: with these experiences? How do I learn from this? And yeah,
Speaker 1: I had this And this is digressing a bit, but
Speaker 1: following on from what I just said, when I was
Speaker 1: that fat kid who lost all the weight, the biggest
Speaker 1: AHA moment for me wasn't the weight or that I
Speaker 1: was now lean. It was that I started to understand
Speaker 1: my potential because I just didn't think highly of me
Speaker 1: or my ability or skill or what was possible for me.
Speaker 1: I made such a small opinion of myself and what
Speaker 1: was possible, and then I did this thing that honestly
Speaker 1: was kind of fucking impressive. I mean I didn't have
Speaker 1: a coach, I didn't have a dietitian, I didn't have
Speaker 1: a trainer, I didn't have anything. I mean it was
Speaker 1: nineteen and tier seven, right, so that you know, there's
Speaker 1: no internet, there's no and I just figured it out.
Speaker 1: And my plan, my literal food plan, was whatever I
Speaker 1: normally eat, I'm eating half. And that was what I
Speaker 1: did for months and months. Like I didn't go, oh,
Speaker 1: there's good fats and bad fats and fucking proteins and
Speaker 1: carbs and like I'm like ah, I just went, well,
Speaker 1: I normally have two of these cheese, ham and tomato
Speaker 1: sandwiches or three, I'll have one or one and a half.
Speaker 1: And that's what I did. I normally drink this much milk.
Speaker 1: I'll have half that milk. And that was my plan.
Speaker 1: And it obviously when you reduce your calories by fifty percent,
Speaker 1: shit starts to happen. And then you start to run
Speaker 1: at the same time, or build up to running, starting
Speaker 1: at walking, jogging, bloody whatever. Yeah, and then and that
Speaker 1: all that was great, But at the end, I went, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm not shit, And that was like a good personal moment.
Speaker 1: I went, I'm not shit because I thought I was shit.
Speaker 1: You know. So even that thing of understanding what is
Speaker 1: possible for us and then believing it, that's a fucking superpower.
Speaker 2: That's interesting. That reminds me of something one of the
Speaker 2: ways I think you can get clearer on what's resonant
Speaker 2: feeling someone's like, oh, I want that thing when you're
Speaker 2: out there experimenting in the world. You know, I've experimented
Speaker 2: with like comedy classes, improv classes, acting classes, finger painting
Speaker 2: and drinking wine classes, and you know, I think I
Speaker 2: was more into the wine than the finger painting and
Speaker 2: all this stuff, just to see what is it that
Speaker 2: you're doing that you're getting better at. To where self efficacy, right,
Speaker 2: you're a belief in your ability to successfully do this
Speaker 2: thing influences self esteem, so as I feel, because they're
Speaker 2: different things and they're not interconnected all the time. Efficacy
Speaker 2: is how I feel about my ability in a certain area.
Speaker 2: Self esteem is how I feel about myself in general.
Speaker 2: So when I was going ahead and I was taking
Speaker 2: improv classes, I found it very difficult. And whether that
Speaker 2: is because I'm a bit thick or my instructor was
Speaker 2: very tough. As I started to improve my self esteem improved.
Speaker 2: I was like, I like the fact that I'm getting
Speaker 2: better at this to where the painting class I could
Speaker 2: have gotten so good that I could have produced Da Vinci. Now,
Speaker 2: of course that would never happen. I don't think I
Speaker 2: even got good enough to where anyone can even make
Speaker 2: out what I was trying to paint. But no matter
Speaker 2: how good I would get, it wouldn't improve my self esteem.
Speaker 2: Not because I don't like appreciate art. I do all
Speaker 2: forms of art, I personally don't value being good at
Speaker 2: that type of art. So my self efficacy would improve,
Speaker 2: but not my self esteem. Pay attention to both. So
Speaker 2: it's like, as you started to get more confident and
Speaker 2: shape this belief and your ability to take steps that
Speaker 2: had an impact on your body, and you started feeling like,
Speaker 2: oh fuck, I can do this, and that elevated your
Speaker 2: self esteem. That's a that's a clue.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yeah, I remember that. Yeah, that moment in
Speaker 1: time for me was transformative because I just for the
Speaker 1: first time started to challenge my own thinking and realize
Speaker 1: that my thinking could be the problem or part of
Speaker 1: the problem. And then, you know, I didn't know what
Speaker 1: the fuck metacognition was but that's the road I was
Speaker 1: going down at a young age. I was just thinking
Speaker 1: because I literally thought, Oh, I wonder what else I
Speaker 1: could do? Do you know what I mean? Because I
Speaker 1: never thought I could do that. I never thought I
Speaker 1: could be the fit, lean, healthy kid. And not only fit,
Speaker 1: lean and healthy, but you know the kid that went
Speaker 1: from being picked last for teams to being picked early,
Speaker 1: like in the first few and playing, you know, playing
Speaker 1: in the school football team and you know, representing and
Speaker 1: running at fucking carnivals and yeah, like all of us,
Speaker 1: and well that's good and they're nice little feathers. But
Speaker 1: then you go, ah, you know, and that's kind of
Speaker 1: and I think I can't speak for you, but I
Speaker 1: think most people suffer from low self esteem, if not
Speaker 1: always at some stage. Not everyone, of course, and a
Speaker 1: shout out to the sociopaths, but like I've always been,
Speaker 1: you know, first time I went to UNI, I was
Speaker 1: thirty six, I'm like, ah, fuck, this is terre. What
Speaker 1: have I done? I'm the dumbest data And then you
Speaker 1: and I wasn't you know. I just felt like a
Speaker 1: fraud and I was. And then when I started, you know,
Speaker 1: my PhD and all that, it's like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: this is I had no idea. I had no idea
Speaker 1: what I was getting into. And then for the first
Speaker 1: three months, I was trying to figure out how I
Speaker 1: could get out of it with minimal public damage because
Speaker 1: I was so embarrassed of my own inability, you know.
Speaker 1: But then you go, oh, well, I'm fucking here, like
Speaker 1: learn like learn the language, understand what research is, Understand
Speaker 1: how to design research and do research and interpret the
Speaker 1: data and write papers, and learn that fucking language that
Speaker 1: everyone speaks here that is like you know, German, Russian
Speaker 1: and bloody Swedish altogether. Yeah, but it's like, oh you do,
Speaker 1: and then you go, okay, so I can become different
Speaker 1: or I can do things that I previously didn't think
Speaker 1: I could do, and leaving the ego aside. But it's like, oh, like,
Speaker 1: it's just your self awareness of your possibilities expanse.
Speaker 2: You know, there's so many lessons as I'm listening to
Speaker 2: you tell that story, and you know, can I unpack
Speaker 2: them a little bit? There's not just your willingness to explore.
Speaker 2: But let's take a look at the PhD for a second.
Speaker 2: You didn't go out and get your PhD in twelfth
Speaker 2: century Spanish architecture. Yeah, I'm sure it's fascinating, but you
Speaker 2: didn't do that. You got it in an area of
Speaker 2: behavior change, Right, there's a neuroscientific element. So what is
Speaker 2: it that you engage in and you're curious enough about
Speaker 2: it to where you want to learn more about it?
Speaker 2: It not like you have to not like, Okay, I've
Speaker 2: got this course. I have to go through it because
Speaker 2: it's on cybersecurity and my company is mandating it. But
Speaker 2: you know, left to my own devices, I wouldn't be
Speaker 2: like searching the internet or going on Amazon looking for
Speaker 2: books on cybersecurity. Like, what is it that when you
Speaker 2: experience it, it not only elevates your self efficacy and
Speaker 2: impacts your self esteem, but it pulls you toward it.
Speaker 2: Like a kid who's really into dinosaurs and they'll devour
Speaker 2: any website, any YouTube video, any book about dinosaurs. What's
Speaker 2: the adult equivalent of dinosaurs for you? Maybe it is dinosaur.
Speaker 2: Still great, because that's a you found that thing. That's
Speaker 2: what I thought, Like like Charles Baudelaire the eighteenth century
Speaker 2: Essays said, when you talked about get drunk, this is
Speaker 2: the great imperative if you do not want to feel time,
Speaker 2: fartle bruise upon your shoulders, crushing you into the earth.
Speaker 2: Get drunk and stay that way. But he wasn't talking
Speaker 2: about alcoholism. He said, on what you ask on wine, poetry,
Speaker 2: virtue doesn't matter. Just get drunk. So when you find
Speaker 2: something that's intoxicating and you can't wait to get the
Speaker 2: very next taste of it, I think that's a clue.
Speaker 2: Another clue in your story is like, after you learned
Speaker 2: that you could change your body, no matter where you're
Speaker 2: starting from, if there were certain things you did, and
Speaker 2: you did them consistently, the fruits of that effort which
Speaker 2: start to show up undeniably in a physical change right
Speaker 2: in front of your eyes. You went out and you started,
Speaker 2: you started a gym chain. What is it that you're
Speaker 2: experiencing that you want everyone to have? Earlier today, after
Speaker 2: I got back from the gym, I had a rice
Speaker 2: bowl and it was really good. I liked that rice bowl.
Speaker 2: I was really hungry, so I could say I loved it.
Speaker 2: Do I want everybody in the world to have a
Speaker 2: rice bowl more than anything? No, I'm kind of indifferent
Speaker 2: to it. I liked it, But you wanted everyone to
Speaker 2: have what you had, and when I was a deformed
Speaker 2: looking kid grown up in Brooklyn and I went to
Speaker 2: the gym and it changed my life. We went on
Speaker 2: the same path because I was like, it's not enough
Speaker 2: that I experienced this. I want everyone to have what
Speaker 2: I have and benefit from it as profoundly as I'm
Speaker 2: benefiting from it. So what do you want to share
Speaker 2: with others? As a matter of fact, you can't help
Speaker 2: but share it with others. That's a clue. So there's
Speaker 2: all these experimental pathways that kind of tell you what
Speaker 2: that thing is. Going back to that person, it was like,
Speaker 2: I don't have a thing, but I want a thing.
Speaker 2: You've got a thing, but you've got to look for it.
Speaker 2: Just like if you want to find anything in the dark,
Speaker 2: you got to turn on a light and cast that
Speaker 2: light around the room a little bit. Until you do that,
Speaker 2: you turn on that light and you look around, you've
Speaker 2: got no chance of finding anything. I remember one night
Speaker 2: I was I was on I was being interviewed on
Speaker 2: the BBC radio and Paul Ross, the interviewer, had asked me, well,
Speaker 2: when you're overcoming a lot of stuff in your life,
Speaker 2: and you know, how do you like, how do you
Speaker 2: go out and do that. How do you take on
Speaker 2: a path that's more rewarding and painful. I'm paraphrasing that question,
Speaker 2: and what I said was, well, look at other people
Speaker 2: and where they might be going through something similar. Where
Speaker 2: is it that you want to alleviate? So it's not
Speaker 2: like one path is I want everyone to have what
Speaker 2: I have. What do you not want anyone to have
Speaker 2: that you've had or experienced? That's another clue. Yeah, And
Speaker 2: I think that's a powerful one because that detaches from
Speaker 2: like all the stories about well I don't do this,
Speaker 2: I'm not that. No, it's not you, it's them. But
Speaker 2: what you want from them or what you don't want
Speaker 2: them to experience could kind of be a hint at
Speaker 2: what you truly value.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I guess so many little points along the
Speaker 1: way in my life and my childhood, and that it's
Speaker 1: what I when I don't know if I could even
Speaker 1: articulate articulate it this way when I was a kid,
Speaker 1: but I got to the point where I realized what
Speaker 1: was holding me back was not actually ability or potential
Speaker 1: or capacity, but rather what I thought about those three things.
Speaker 1: It's what I thought about my potential. I thought I
Speaker 1: was dumb. It turns out I'm not dumb, not a genius,
Speaker 1: not dumb. I thought I had the worst genetics in
Speaker 1: the world. Turns out, don't you know, not the best,
Speaker 1: but not the worst, right, And then realizing that I could,
Speaker 1: through thought and conscious effort and commitment and a willingness
Speaker 1: to endure pain, be that mental emotional whatever, I could
Speaker 1: create not just change, but like fucking massive change where
Speaker 1: my life, the day to day experience of my life
Speaker 1: changed a lot when I essentially lost a third of
Speaker 1: my body weight and socially and emotionally and practically and
Speaker 1: mentally and physically and even scholastically, and you know, it's like,
Speaker 1: oh oh, and not that dropping weight is the global
Speaker 1: solution to everything, of course, or me. So much of
Speaker 1: my internal shit was tied into the fact that I
Speaker 1: was the fattest kid at my school, and my name
Speaker 1: at school was Jumbo, a direct reference to how fat
Speaker 1: I was. And it's pretty hard to not just like
Speaker 1: when that is your identity to people, when that is
Speaker 1: your label. And by the way, I'm not blaming anyone.
Speaker 1: I'm not mad at anyone at all. I'm just this
Speaker 1: is my story. When your label is Jumbo, well, it's
Speaker 1: hard to and you know, hundreds of people call you
Speaker 1: that because that is your name. There it's hard to
Speaker 1: not see yourself in a you know, in a poor
Speaker 1: lights and or as the fat guy, or as the
Speaker 1: guy that's not particularly attractive or socially desirable or doesn't
Speaker 1: fit in or or fill in the boxes. And then
Speaker 1: so when I started to do this thing, I told
Speaker 1: no one. I didn't even tell my parents, I didn't
Speaker 1: tell my best mate. I just started running and I went,
Speaker 1: I'm just going to I'm just going to do this thing.
Speaker 1: And I went well, and I just like, I was
Speaker 1: so motivated through a bad experience I'd had, so motivated
Speaker 1: it got to the point where my motivation and inspiration
Speaker 1: and you know kind of discipline as self control pretty
Speaker 1: much became an obsession. So it's funny how the good
Speaker 1: thing can become the bad thing dependent on the dose
Speaker 1: and the mindset. Yeah, you know, so and you went
Speaker 1: and you went through not that it's comparison, but you
Speaker 1: went through fucking way worse. So you know, it's just
Speaker 1: but I think like if even like you and me
Speaker 1: as kids, I think we're not looking for sympathy anyone
Speaker 1: at all. But My point is that if if uninformed, uneducated,
Speaker 1: unknowing kids who have a sense of knowing, maybe belief
Speaker 1: maybe below, but if we can figure out because you
Speaker 1: you know, even as seven year olds, six year olds
Speaker 1: in your case, probably you know, we're constantly trying to
Speaker 1: navigate a world that's kind of confusing and potentially terrifying,
Speaker 1: and we're trying to figure out how to survive and
Speaker 1: thrive and how to be safe. And so you know,
Speaker 1: one of mine was, just be the fat, happy kid.
Speaker 1: Just be Jumbo, the fucking hilarious, fucking clown.
Speaker 2: Just be that guy.
Speaker 1: Because everyone loves a clown. So be the clown. Be
Speaker 1: the disruptive clown if you need to be, but be
Speaker 1: the fucking clown so their attention is drawn to the clown,
Speaker 1: not the fat stomach.
Speaker 2: Totally understand, Totally understand.
Speaker 1: I don't know how we got here from there, I
Speaker 1: feel like we goss.
Speaker 2: But anyway, now, because we started talking about identifying your
Speaker 2: values and being willing to play and step out an
Speaker 2: experiment and be detached from how it should go or
Speaker 2: what should happen as a result of it, just see
Speaker 2: what you learn, see what resonates. I think all of
Speaker 2: these stories kind of encapsulate powerful lessons, like I know
Speaker 2: in my transformation, when I got into jeril, it changed
Speaker 2: my relationship with pain. You know you talked about pain
Speaker 2: early in life. Pain caused me a lot of suffering,
Speaker 2: whether it was emotional, psychological, physical pain, because there was
Speaker 2: no autonomy. I wasn't choosing it, there was no control.
Speaker 2: I couldn't help it right, couldn't change it, avoid it,
Speaker 2: lessen it. And then when I got into exercise, pain
Speaker 2: became exhilarating for me. Pain became my favorite thing in
Speaker 2: the world because I could choose it, I could regulate it,
Speaker 2: and I had the miscan at that point that the
Speaker 2: more pain I was in, the further I was moving
Speaker 2: towards where I wanted to be and who I wanted.
Speaker 2: But come, I mean, we all had that insane person
Speaker 2: in the gym, insane mentor there was this guy Oscar
Speaker 2: and I used to train with him in his basement
Speaker 2: and like he would make you vomit from one never ending,
Speaker 2: stupidly intense set of squats and then you just lay
Speaker 2: on the ground. And I remember, I remember the once
Speaker 2: I was laying on the ground, I was watching smoke
Speaker 2: come off of my head and I couldn't even get
Speaker 2: up off the floor, and his mother came down and
Speaker 2: saw me and just didn't react. I thought, Okay, this
Speaker 2: is probably a normal occurrence. So he had that type
Speaker 2: of training. And I remember that I could not walk
Speaker 2: for several days after that. Yeah, not well, And I
Speaker 2: remember how good that felt. I was like, I want
Speaker 2: to feel like this all the time, which is insane
Speaker 2: for someone who's not it, because it gave me such
Speaker 2: a locus of control. I mean to the point where,
Speaker 2: like we've discussed this, some of my really debilitating injuries
Speaker 2: as an older adult are completely unnecessary and I know better.
Speaker 2: But it's that connection to that pain, because I think
Speaker 2: when pain has meaning behind it and there's there's a
Speaker 2: direction to it, it doesn't induce suffering. I think it
Speaker 2: can be transformative and I think it can be actually
Speaker 2: quite enjoyable. And that that is the definition of passion. Bill,
Speaker 2: I want to find my passion. Well, your passion is
Speaker 2: what it is that you're willing to suffer for. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, it's not about this exuberance and this excitement.
Speaker 2: It's about I would suffer for this. I think that's
Speaker 2: that's also a great list. Mistest for what your values
Speaker 2: might be.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's complicated because on a level, people are hardwired
Speaker 1: for instant gratification, pain avoidance, risk avoidance, you know, blah
Speaker 1: blah blah. But also we know that, you know, it's
Speaker 1: in that. For me, all of the where I've grown
Speaker 1: and learned and evolved and built the most resilience consistently
Speaker 1: has been when I was doing something that was somewhere
Speaker 1: between a bit hard and fucking horrible. And you're like, ah,
Speaker 1: it's just it's like, you can't. You know this old anecdote,
Speaker 1: but you can't go to the gym and build a big, strong, functional,
Speaker 1: amazing body by training at three out of ten, or
Speaker 1: by avoiding the work, or by taking the safest, least
Speaker 1: painful option. You can't. It's like strength, literal physical strength
Speaker 1: and mental emotional strength is a direct byproduct of navigating
Speaker 1: painful thing. It's navigating stress, working against resistance, stimulating your body,
Speaker 1: your brain, et cetera in a way that it needs
Speaker 1: to adapt to survive and thrive. So we literally subject
Speaker 1: ourselves to this thing that ain't pleasant to create an
Speaker 1: outcome that is a positive for us. And that's the
Speaker 1: I mean, there's no way around that nobody has ever
Speaker 1: in the history of humanity sat on the couch and
Speaker 1: gotten an amazing big, functional, strong, or healthy or trim
Speaker 1: or sexy body by not working out or not exercising
Speaker 1: or not moving.
Speaker 2: You've clearly never seen what I do on my couch.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's good, you're funny. All right, we're being to
Speaker 1: wind up. We've been here forever.
Speaker 2: Well, I do you want to say just another disclaimer? Yes,
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that you need a ten out of
Speaker 2: ten like all out effort every time, because sometimes that
Speaker 2: can be especially when it comes to exercise, that could
Speaker 2: be more counterproductive than not. Like sometimes you know it
Speaker 2: is a five out of ten, sometimes it's nine out
Speaker 2: of ten. Now, what are you willing to intelligently keep
Speaker 2: showing up for? It's that consistency, just through that oup.
Speaker 1: The self help Pantidote is Bobby's I'll do it. I'll
Speaker 1: do it for him. Self Help Pantidot is Bobby's podcast.
Speaker 1: Is that still in a holding pattern at the moment?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'll be once once I'm done relocating and
Speaker 2: getting past all my exams. Sometime around mid May, I
Speaker 2: will be launching another season of.
Speaker 1: That Get the Up but a coup. Well, he can
Speaker 1: be heard here every week. So there's that, There's Robert
Speaker 1: Capuccio dot com. There's that, And very soon he's going
Speaker 1: to be living in the middle of the wilderness and
Speaker 1: I am sure he would love guests, So stand by
Speaker 1: for that address that'll be forthcoming.
Speaker 2: Thanks Bunny, good talking. He as always see you, buddy,