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Speaker 1: From The Australian. This is the weekend edition of The Front.

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Speaker 1: I'm Claire Harvey. Reality TV usually gets filed under Guilty Pleasures,

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Speaker 1: but The Traders has changed that. While it's only been

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Speaker 1: around for a few years, it's become the gold standard

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Speaker 1: for shows combining reality TV and gameplay. Originally a Dutch

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Speaker 1: series called Deferadas, The Traders has exploded internationally, with over

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Speaker 1: thirty countries contributing to the franchise. All follow the same formula.

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Speaker 1: About twenty contestants descend on some kind of manner, competing

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Speaker 1: for a prize perse that grows as different challenges are completed.

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Speaker 1: Among the contestants, at least three are secretly picked to

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Speaker 1: be Traders. The rest are Faithfuls. Traders fly under the

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Speaker 1: radar and murder one faithful a day. The Faithfuls have

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Speaker 1: to figure out who's doing the murdering and banish them.

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Speaker 1: I think Survivor meets and then there were none. There's collaboration,

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Speaker 1: but more importantly, there's lies and deception a lot like

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Speaker 1: Canberra really, and that's why I thought the perfect person

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Speaker 1: to talk about this show is The Australian's Canberra Bureau

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Speaker 1: chief Richard Ferguson.

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Speaker 2: You know, I always promise myself I'll never be on

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Speaker 2: a sort of reality show. But I watched the game.

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Speaker 2: I watched it and I thought, this is the most

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Speaker 2: revealing thing I've ever seen about the human mind.

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Speaker 1: This is Stephen Frye, who competed on the Celebrity Traders UK.

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Speaker 2: Can we read people? Can we deceive people? It's a

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Speaker 2: very basic question from high politics to everyday life. We

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Speaker 2: ask ourselves and to be in it was a genuine thrill.

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Speaker 2: Would you like to be a traitor or do you

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Speaker 2: like to bear faithful? Faithful?

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Speaker 3: I hope to be an absolutely formidable traitor.

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Speaker 4: I want to be a faithful No, I want to

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Speaker 4: be a traitor.

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Speaker 2: I want to be a traitor.

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Speaker 1: Oh god, no, you will have to stab people in

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Speaker 1: the back.

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Speaker 2: Then do it to me.

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Speaker 5: The show is people, I'll do it to them. You

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Speaker 5: know what celebrities are like, they're two.

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Speaker 1: Faced reaching First up, I want to know trader or faithful.

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Speaker 5: I actually think i'd be a faithful To be honest, Claire,

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Speaker 5: I think I'd be a terrible trader as anybody probably

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Speaker 5: at The Australian or anyone I've ever dealt with, will

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Speaker 5: tell you. I don't really have a poker face. I'm

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Speaker 5: not a very good liar. I can't keep a secret.

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Speaker 5: So I think generally I think i'd be a pretty

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Speaker 5: bad trader. But I think what really fascinates me about

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Speaker 5: the show is what the reason the faith will always

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Speaker 5: fall apart is that what they see as traitor behavior

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Speaker 5: is not actually good trader behavior. They always go for

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Speaker 5: the person who's panicking, who's freaking out, while as the

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Speaker 5: trader is subtle. The trader is the one who's got

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Speaker 5: in all the friendship groups, who's got the chat, who's

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Speaker 5: keeping their head down, And this is why so often

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Speaker 5: they go under the radar. So I think what people

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Speaker 5: think a trader should be is not always what a

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Speaker 5: trader should be.

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Speaker 1: I don't know why, but I'm always drawn to the

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Speaker 1: people who say that they want to be traders, maybe

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Speaker 1: because they're just honest, although I myself would be a

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Speaker 1: terrible trader, just like you, only because I'm so neurotic

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Speaker 1: and I want people to like me. I'd be horrified

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Speaker 1: at the thought that people didn't like me, and that

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Speaker 1: would take all the fun for me out of conniving

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Speaker 1: and stabbing people in the bag.

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Speaker 5: I think one of the reasons that people always want

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Speaker 5: to see their Traders is actually the same reason that

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Speaker 5: people want to be Joanna Lumley and absolutely fabulous, or

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Speaker 5: Peter Capaldi in the It or Brian Coxon's succession.

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Speaker 1: So I wasn't about to get into a fucking big

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Speaker 1: dick competition.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 6: You know, I know that you've read a lot of

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Speaker 6: books about business management and this and that, but you

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Speaker 6: know what what, sometimes it is a big dick competition.

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Speaker 5: Everybody aspires to be the bad guy, to be free

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Speaker 5: of convention, to be mischievous and devilish and in control

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Speaker 5: and unstoppable. The Traders really brings that out in people.

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Speaker 5: Everybody wants to be a sinner.

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Speaker 6: The spanishment, I'm gonna do what I think dash see.

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Speaker 7: I'm torn because I hear his name and I hear

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Speaker 7: Hannah's name.

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Speaker 6: Name is gone.

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Speaker 1: Okay, maybe the Traders is as close as we'll get

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Speaker 1: to the Roman Senate, where politics was a performance.

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Speaker 4: My father spent all his time at study, He spent

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Speaker 4: his twelve hours reading scrolls from the Senate, and all

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Speaker 4: the while the people were forgotten that the Senate is

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Speaker 4: the people, say, chosen from among the people to.

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Speaker 1: Speak for the people.

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Speaker 4: I judge many of the people it so well as

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Speaker 4: you do. Gracis, we'll have such splendid mistresses. Guys, I

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Speaker 4: think I understand my own people.

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Speaker 1: I can't resist asking you to compare this to the

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Speaker 1: camera political scene right now. We've just seen the wily

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Speaker 1: Anthony Albanesi, the master political tactician, completely do over Susan

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Speaker 1: Lee and the Coalition and they've now fallen apart. Prime Minister.

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Speaker 1: What does it say about Labour's economic incompetence when its

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Speaker 1: own Treasury secretary is voting to lift rates.

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Speaker 2: I do encourage my people, do not yell out of time.

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Speaker 3: There's enough behind her doing at the moment.

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Speaker 1: David Little Proud might have thought he was being a

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Speaker 1: t when he attempted to blow up the coalition, but

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Speaker 1: I think it might have been really Anthony Albanesi. What's

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Speaker 1: your take on that.

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Speaker 5: I think that if anybody was to be a trader

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Speaker 5: in Canberra, Anthony Albanzi Penny one would make very good traders.

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Speaker 7: I note that married at first sight begins tonight.

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Speaker 5: And it's a bit like that with the relationships on

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Speaker 5: the other side.

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Speaker 7: You know they're going to win badly, you know, there's

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Speaker 7: going to be.

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Speaker 5: I think that Angus Taylor's definitely proven to be a

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Speaker 5: better trader than Andrew Hasty.

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Speaker 7: Susan Lee holding on to her job by a thread,

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Speaker 7: rival Angus Taylor not yet clear on when to strike.

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Speaker 5: David little Proude is a classic example of a trader

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Speaker 5: who can't keep a straight face and kind of blows

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Speaker 5: himself up. But people that you'd make good traders in

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Speaker 5: Canberra are actually the slier ones I think someday, like

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Speaker 5: a Leger Spender.

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Speaker 1: For me, I'm about policy, I'm not about parties.

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Speaker 5: Most of the tales are the most faithful, faithful as

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Speaker 5: you can imagine, like you know, can't take a track,

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Speaker 5: don't understand the complexities of politics, kind of run around

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Speaker 5: well as Allegra Spender kind of quietly does her thing

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Speaker 5: and gets stuff done. And for fans of Trader season four,

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Speaker 5: the UK version, I think that Allegra Spender would be

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Speaker 5: a bit of a rachel.

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Speaker 7: I really wanted this and I was manifest and just

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Speaker 7: visualizing Claudia tap on the shoulder, and then when she did,

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Speaker 7: I was like, oh my god, I can't wait to

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Speaker 7: murder people, which sounds so bad, but I can't wait.

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Speaker 7: I'm really looking forward.

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Speaker 1: Reality TV is the new mainstream entertainment. Everyone I know

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Speaker 1: is watching some reality franchise or other, and they seem

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Speaker 1: to have kind of lost this shame. Have you ever

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Speaker 1: felt any shame about being a reality fan? And do

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Speaker 1: you think that that is true?

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Speaker 6: Well?

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Speaker 5: I have to say clear, I am generally not a

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Speaker 5: reality fan because I am a bit of a softy

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Speaker 5: and I don't like watching people lose.

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Speaker 1: Tamara and Matteo, you failed to build on a connect

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Speaker 1: with each other. Sorry, guys, do you have time in

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Speaker 1: the villa? Is up?

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Speaker 5: I don't like game shows. I don't like drag race

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Speaker 5: or I've never really been into the Real Housewives or

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Speaker 5: the Kardashians, the kind of ananity of that.

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Speaker 1: How old am I stops?

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Speaker 3: How old are you now?

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Speaker 1: Both of you?

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Speaker 2: Okay, separate, Nana.

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Speaker 5: I do like things like location, location, location, I like

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Speaker 5: a reality I like a real estate show, and I

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Speaker 5: like shows where people kind of get better. I think

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Speaker 5: the greatest ever reality show is Mary Queen of Shops,

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Speaker 5: which is Mary Portos, who is the inspiration for absolutely Fabulous.

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Speaker 5: She ran named Harvey Nichols for a really long time

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Speaker 5: and she would go into charity shops and renovate them.

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Speaker 3: This clean, bright, fixed factory shop front is a world

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Speaker 3: away from the previous drab of putting exterior.

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Speaker 5: I really enjoyed that because she would sort of go

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Speaker 5: up to these old ladies and say this looks absolutely terrible,

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Speaker 5: and they'd go, no, it doesn't, it's great, and so

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Speaker 5: I enjoy I enjoy a little bit of self invention.

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Speaker 5: But I never really thought I would get into The

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Speaker 5: Traders for this exact reason, and it is kind of

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Speaker 5: deception and meanness, but I think there's just something so

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Speaker 5: base human about it. It really gets to the core

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Speaker 5: of just who people are and how they interact. For example,

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Speaker 5: in this recent season of The Traders UK, there's one

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Speaker 5: young girl called Jade, and Jade was a Faithful. She

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Speaker 5: wasn't a trader, but every five minutes people were accusing

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Speaker 5: her of being a trader. And I think it's because

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Speaker 5: she was slightly aloof and beautiful and herd mentality is incredible.

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Speaker 5: They all pile on the Faithful, vote them out as

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Speaker 5: a trader, and then it's like they weren't a trader.

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Speaker 5: They clearly weren't a trader. It really gets to the

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Speaker 5: basis of Humanity, the Dark Impulses, the original sin if

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Speaker 5: you will.

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Speaker 1: Coming up more of my conversation Richard Ferguson. So you ask,

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Speaker 1: when's Traders coming to Australia. Well, it's already been here,

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Speaker 1: but nobody noticed. After two seasons, Network Ten canceled the show.

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Speaker 1: It was a cult hit, but it didn't get the

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Speaker 1: ratings it needed to justify the huge budget you need

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Speaker 1: to make a show like this. Averaging about two hundred

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Speaker 1: and sixty thousand viewers just wasn't good enough. At the time,

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Speaker 1: Ten's programmers said they hoped to have another go after

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Speaker 1: Australian's got a taste for the British and American versions,

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Speaker 1: and that's why now they're in post production of a

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Speaker 1: new version, filmed last spring at a heritage mansion in

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Speaker 1: New Zealand. It'll have a cast of all reality stars,

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Speaker 1: including Chrissy marsh from the Real Housewives of Sydney.

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Speaker 7: And I've said to you made me feel really uncomfortable.

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Speaker 4: You're taking selfies the whole time, saying that you're bored

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Speaker 4: at at dinner table.

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Speaker 1: I probably did do all those things. To be fair,

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Speaker 1: only boring people get bored. I'm never bored Tully Smyth

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Speaker 1: from Big Brother and Kira Maguire and Alex Nation from

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Speaker 1: The Bachelor, plus John Farnham's son Rob hosting will be

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Speaker 1: reality stalwart Gretel Colleen, who helped power Big Brother to

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Speaker 1: cultural dominance in the naughties. I've loved UK Celebrity Traders

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Speaker 1: because they've got some incredible real celebrities, people like Stephen Frye,

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Speaker 1: the actress Celia Imri. My favorite was the actor Nick Muhammad,

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Speaker 1: who played the villain in ted Lasso.

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Speaker 3: Some you're constantly getting beat on the wings, it's because

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Speaker 3: you're in decisive your second guest more than a shitty psychic.

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Speaker 3: The only African I know more in prison by the

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Speaker 3: wrong thoughts is God Done Nelson Mandela.

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Speaker 1: But there's also in that UK series a YouTuber and

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Speaker 1: a couple of newer kind of celebrities, And in the

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Speaker 1: US version of the Celebrity Traders they're much more leaning

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Speaker 1: towards new kinds of celebrities, reality TV sort of fixtures,

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Speaker 1: you know, YouTubers, social media people. It's an interesting reflection,

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Speaker 1: isn't it, on how the nature of celebrity is changing

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Speaker 1: and who gets to be a celebrity now.

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Speaker 5: It definitely is. And that's where the Traders US and

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Speaker 5: the Traders UK are very different. Traders UK and the

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Speaker 5: original Netherlands version are very much real people. What's most

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Speaker 5: interesting is the real people have become celebrities. You know

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Speaker 5: Diane from season two M who was this kind of

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Speaker 5: nor of an Irish mother who was getting rid of

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Speaker 5: all the Traders and then she eventually gets done in

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Speaker 5: she has become a celebrity and her own rate.

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Speaker 4: They're getting very smart people and they.

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Speaker 2: Well exactly exactly, so they're getting rid of all the

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Speaker 2: smart ones.

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Speaker 1: You're still a question on no, yeah, right.

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Speaker 2: You're doing some weird things.

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Speaker 7: What am I doing?

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Speaker 1: That's weird?

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Speaker 2: You're throwing names out, you're going off of motion.

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Speaker 1: Totally disagree with you. Richard Ferguson is the Australian's Canbra

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Speaker 1: Bureau chief. You can read his work anytime at the

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Speaker 1: Australian dot com dot au and you can catch the

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Speaker 1: Traders on Network ten. This episode of the Front was

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Speaker 1: hosted by me Claire Harvey and co produced with Jasper Leek.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us on the Front this week. Our

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Speaker 1: team also includes Leah Tamaglu, Christen Amiot, Tiffany Dimack and

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Speaker 1: Joshua Burton,