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Speaker 1: Before we begin. This podcast contains graphic descriptions of violence.

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Speaker 1: This is a production by The Australian and our subscribers.

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Speaker 1: Here episodes first and get full access to photos, video,

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Speaker 1: news stories and features plus all Australia's best journalism. Twenty

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Speaker 1: four to seven. Join us at gangstersghost dot com dot

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Speaker 1: a U.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Checkers. It's pleasure being here at Checkers in Sydney.

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Speaker 3: Now, of course it's pleasure.

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Speaker 4: It's the winter of nineteen sixty eight and the popular

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Speaker 4: American musical duo The Everly Brothers are on stage at

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Speaker 4: Checkers Nightclub in Golden Street, in the heart of the

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Speaker 4: Sydney CBD. For years, the club the place to See

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Speaker 4: Be Seen, was known for its international acts Shirley Bassie,

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Speaker 4: Sammy Davis Junior, Liza Manelli, and equally for its client

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Speaker 4: tele from the rich and famous to the cream of

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Speaker 4: the city's criminal underworld.

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Speaker 2: We'd like to sing our favorite song for you.

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Speaker 3: We think it's the most beautiful song we ever had

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Speaker 3: the privilege of recording.

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Speaker 4: Orchestra On this night, the Everly Brothers, Don and Phil

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Speaker 4: played a few of their old hits like Bye Bye

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Speaker 4: Love and Wake Up Little Susie, as well as the

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Speaker 4: haunting ballad Let It Be Me.

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Speaker 5: Less the Dear.

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Speaker 4: Just a couple of years earlier, gangster Stewart John had

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Speaker 4: celebrated his twenty first birthday at the fabled Checkers. He

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Speaker 4: dressed in a nice suit and pencil thin tie with

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Speaker 4: a white pocket handkerchief. There was a cream cake on

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Speaker 4: a silver foil tray with twenty one candles. His mother, Claire,

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Speaker 4: known by all as the Colonel, sat on one side

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Speaker 4: of him at the table. Marg the partner he had

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Speaker 4: fallen in love with at first sight when he was

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Speaker 4: working as a King's Cross nightclub bouncer, sat on the other.

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Speaker 4: A photograph was taken of a beaming Reagan cutting the cake.

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Speaker 4: What the picture didn't show was the guest sitting on

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Speaker 4: the other side of the table. That was a man

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Speaker 4: called Frederick Paddles Anderson, a man who lived in the shadows,

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Speaker 4: a man both police and criminals knew as the God

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Speaker 4: of Sydney, the boss of Bosses. Mark remembers the celebration

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Speaker 4: and the well dressed elderly gentleman at the table.

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Speaker 3: I can still remember the outfit. He said, I'm buying

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Speaker 3: you an outfit. You're coming to my twenty first the

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Speaker 3: outfit was red velvet, opened a pel and saw the

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Speaker 3: little button, and I had a red skirt. Now I've

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Speaker 3: never owned anything about blood in my life, and you

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Speaker 3: will wear this and we're going to have a nast night.

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Speaker 3: I was very shy. I didn't speak to people. So

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Speaker 3: I was here on the left hands on John was there,

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Speaker 3: Claire was there, and Filman was there, and Parol Anson

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Speaker 3: was on the other side. That was that Checkers, I think, yes, Checkers.

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Speaker 6: That was a small group.

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Speaker 3: Yes, if you see the picture, you can see him

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Speaker 3: cuting his cake, which he was very happy. But in

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Speaker 3: that picture you will see that mean in the corner

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Speaker 3: was a battle Lansing. So he was mixing with these

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Speaker 3: people and me not even not.

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Speaker 6: So you didn't have a clue.

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Speaker 3: I have no idea none.

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Speaker 6: Time was he introduced to you as a friend or an.

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Speaker 3: Uncle, or oh this is my business partner, my friend,

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Speaker 3: and you know he was a very pleasant man to me.

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Speaker 4: He was Mark was still in her late teens and

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Speaker 4: here she was a fancy Checkers. Champagne was flowing. The

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Speaker 4: boy from young had come so far so quickly. Now mentored,

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Speaker 4: it seemed by this big businessman.

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Speaker 6: Did he get along well with Claire?

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Speaker 3: I didn't see any problem. Who was a nice snock?

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Speaker 7: Did you ever query what business is it that your

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Speaker 7: partner's in?

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Speaker 3: No, who would never disclose it to me? I didn't

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Speaker 3: even have even any thoughts. That's what was happening in

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Speaker 3: this mantl because he was here, there, everywhere. Obviously he

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Speaker 3: was meeting people that were cluels.

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Speaker 6: So when do you think that started.

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Speaker 3: I think it started at that age, Yes.

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Speaker 8: I do.

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Speaker 4: Paddles Anderson was there to celebrate Stuart John Reagan coming

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Speaker 4: of age, and by the mid nineteen sixties he came

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Speaker 4: of age alright, not just as a legal adult, but

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Speaker 4: as one of the most dangerous and psychotic mobsters that

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Speaker 4: the city of Sydney and the nation had ever witnessed.

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Speaker 4: I'm journalist Matthew Condon and this is the Gangster's Ghost,

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Speaker 4: a podcast from The Australian. This podcast started out as

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Speaker 4: a clinical look at one of Australia's most reviled gangsters,

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Speaker 4: but when the Reagan family came on board, the project

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Speaker 4: took on another dimension and begged the question, how does

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Speaker 4: a family cope with the generational stain of a murderer

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Speaker 4: whose death was celebrated by criminals and police alike. This

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Speaker 4: is episode five Into the Underworld. At the start of

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Speaker 4: our investigation into Reagan, my co pilot Kelly Slater Reagan

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Speaker 4: was brimming with optimism. She'd tracked down some of Reagan's

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Speaker 4: old schoolmates in his hometown of Young and heard some

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Speaker 4: decent things about the gangster when he was a boy.

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Speaker 4: It encouraged Kelly that her second cousin was a bad man,

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Speaker 4: but perhaps not the monster that everyone else depicted him as.

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Speaker 4: But the more we learned, the more Kelly had her doubts.

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Speaker 4: Here she is out on the farm with one of

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Speaker 4: her audio diary entries.

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Speaker 2: You know, up until I came back from Sydney last weekend,

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Speaker 2: and I was really buoyed by the fact that Annie

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Speaker 2: marg met Matt. You know, I thought we could tell

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Speaker 2: us some of the good stuff that we'd found, you know,

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Speaker 2: his friends from young saying he wasn't a psychopath. I mean,

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Speaker 2: it just wasn't making him look like a monster. But

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Speaker 2: in the last couple of days we've heard first hand

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Speaker 2: accounts that really really conflict with that. You know, at

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Speaker 2: the beginning, I said I wanted the truth and sometimes

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Speaker 2: the truth isn't real pretty, And to be faired income

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Speaker 2: with myself, I probably all along expected that it wouldn't

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Speaker 2: be good. But there'd been this hope that he wasn't

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Speaker 2: this monster, he wasn't this psychopath, he wasn't all these things.

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Speaker 2: And then you know, you hear stories from people and

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Speaker 2: you just shake your head and you feel sorry for

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Speaker 2: these people. And how do you say, someone who's committed

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Speaker 2: murders wasn't that bad? But then the whiskey, that fucking

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Speaker 2: whiskey go go, and that shameful police investigation, that shameful

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Speaker 2: whole thing. Yeah, I'm a bit rocked.

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Speaker 4: I needed to tell Kelly that she'd better buckle her

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Speaker 4: seat belt. It was Reagan's twenty first birthday that flicked

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Speaker 4: a switch inside of him. He had firmly decided to

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Speaker 4: come of age as a gangster, and he was in

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Speaker 4: the right place at exactly the right time to achieve that.

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Speaker 4: What did Paddles, who beat a murder charge in Melbourne

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Speaker 4: as a young man, see in Reagan? How did they

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Speaker 4: even meet? Did Paddles witness glimmers of his ambitious former

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Speaker 4: self in this knockabout kid from rural New South Wales.

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Speaker 4: This reform school graduate and brothel enforcer. Did he notice

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Speaker 4: a formidable criminal mind at work, a prodigy? Or was

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Speaker 4: Reagan's reputation as a violent, ruthless, unhinged maniac who'd bash, maim,

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Speaker 4: or even kill without batting an eyelid in the forefront

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Speaker 4: of paddles This boy could cause major problems for established

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Speaker 4: gangsters who mostly worked harmoniously and stayed in their patch.

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Speaker 4: This boy might need to be watched very carefully. And

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Speaker 4: was there any meaning to be seen not just in

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Speaker 4: public with Reagan but alongside his family celebrating a significant

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Speaker 4: milestone in any adult's life. Was he giving Reagan permission

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Speaker 4: to operate at the top tier. There has never been

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Speaker 4: a time where youthful criminal ambition didn't try and push

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Speaker 4: its way to the top. To get a sense of

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Speaker 4: the generational doggy dog reality of the underworld, I talked

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Speaker 4: to notorious comment Peter Foster, now in his early sixties,

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Speaker 4: about the nineteen eighties when he first crossed paths with

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Speaker 4: the dark side. Foster, at nineteen, was the world's youngest

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Speaker 4: boxing promoter before he got into serious strife with various

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Speaker 4: weight loss schemes that saw him convicted and jailed around

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Speaker 4: the world, but thinking about his own youthful ambitions, he

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Speaker 4: had a fascinating observation that was as true then as

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Speaker 4: it was in the nineteen sixties in Sydney during Reagan's

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Speaker 4: brutal fight to the top.

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Speaker 9: You know, I didn't like that world. I much preferred

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Speaker 9: the show business and the beautiful people, and the champagne

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Speaker 9: lifestyle and the nice restaurants and just the nice people

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Speaker 9: with good manners. I didn't like being around the thugs

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Speaker 9: and the gangsters, and you know, I had too many

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Speaker 9: moments of uneasiness. And you're dealing with psychopaths and sociopaths,

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Speaker 9: and you're dealing with people with no empathy, and it's

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Speaker 9: a dark underbelly. And I'm sure every city has it.

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Speaker 9: And don't get me wrong, I've had some funny, charming

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Speaker 9: nights out with some of the clever gangsters. You know,

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Speaker 9: it was never going to be a place I wanted

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Speaker 9: to spend too much time, But in the early days

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Speaker 9: there wasn't much I could do. Now, as I'm an

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Speaker 9: older man, I've done everything I can to keep myself

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Speaker 9: away from that world as long as I can.

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Speaker 4: There were moments when Foster trying to stay outside the underbelly,

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Speaker 4: found himself caught in the vortex.

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Speaker 9: You know, you own race horses and you mix with

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Speaker 9: them in that circle, and occasionally you get dragged in.

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Speaker 9: But it's amazing. All the gangsters want to be honest businessmen,

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Speaker 9: and all the young honest kids want to be bloody gangsters.

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Speaker 9: I just don't get it, you know. But all the

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Speaker 9: wise old heads just want to be, you know, respectable businessmen.

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Speaker 4: If Reagan had ambitions to be the next Paddles Anderson,

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Speaker 4: he must have known that by the mid to late

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Speaker 4: nineteen sixties it was a pretty crowded junkyard and he'd

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Speaker 4: have to do something extraordinary to get noticed.

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Speaker 2: Made.

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Speaker 10: Lenny McPherson Australia's mister Bid. He was the feared head

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Speaker 10: of Sydney's underworld for over thirty years. George Freeman race fixer,

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Speaker 10: casino king, organized crime boss and cold hearted executioner, the

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Speaker 10: self styled lucky Gambler to be a cold, calculating killer

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Speaker 10: whose reign over Sidneys.

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Speaker 11: Under the half a century. Abe Saffron is the Vice

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Speaker 11: King of Sydney. He controls the illegal gambling, prostitution and

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Speaker 11: liquor rackets. By bribing and blackmailing police and politicians. He's

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Speaker 11: accused of arson and even murder, but like al Capone,

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Speaker 11: Abe Saffron only goes to jail because of evasion.

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Speaker 4: Lenny McPherson, George Freeman, Abe Saffron, These were Sydney's top

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Speaker 4: gangsters when Reagan was trying to flex his youthful muscle,

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Speaker 4: and as the song goes, it was a jungle out there.

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Speaker 4: Reagan quickly became a recognizable face in the Darlinghurst and

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Speaker 4: King's Cross neighborhood, and that face was instantly associated with violence.

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Speaker 4: Former detective and best selling author Duncan McNabb, an expert

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Speaker 4: on the period, says Reagan's pathway to crime was in

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Speaker 4: a way predestined, starting at the front door of that

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Speaker 4: terrace house in Liverpool Street, Darlinghurst, one.

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Speaker 5: Liverpool Street, from Hyde Park through to where it stops

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Speaker 5: in Paddington was just slums, brought a little Laneway's crims.

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Speaker 5: It's where in part of Jason's where the razor Gains

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Speaker 5: were working in the thirties and all that sort of stuff.

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Speaker 5: So Raffer's guts have gentrified about twenty years ago. In

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Speaker 5: that case, if he's living in Liverpool Street. There's a

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Speaker 5: reasonable charge. He just started hanging around the crust like

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Speaker 5: so many of them didn't. They found him useful because

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Speaker 5: he didn't have much in the way of moral so

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Speaker 5: he do whatever he was asked.

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Speaker 4: Local John Waddy, who would go on to become an

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Speaker 4: internationally renowned fashion photographer, was a big socializer during the

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Speaker 4: nineteen sixties and knew everybody around the cross. In fact,

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Speaker 4: his father, doctor Bryan Woddy, had some close encounters with Reagan.

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Speaker 12: My dad owned the house on the corner of Bruverpool

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Speaker 12: Street and darling Hurst Road, and our house was opposite

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Speaker 12: the Royal Sovereign, which is the pub, and that's where

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Speaker 12: he had We had the big house there and he

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Speaker 12: built a little surgery the office thing there. That's where

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Speaker 12: he saw his patients. And Reagan came in as a

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Speaker 12: patient wants to and I said, told me about it,

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Speaker 12: and I said, God, you're kidding. I'd be a bit

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Speaker 12: careful of him, you know. He said, oh no, He

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Speaker 12: said to me, you know you take cash. He noticed

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Speaker 12: that had the cashtraw there. He said, anybody ever attached you?

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Speaker 13: What do you do?

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Speaker 12: You kick him in the knee and heaved up a

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Speaker 12: lesson a fight, and I said that get to I

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Speaker 12: invite him up into the house and to meet the family.

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Speaker 12: You know, he's not good people, but kings. It wasn't

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Speaker 12: fantastic and we had Yeah. I knew every shopkeeper and

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Speaker 12: every paper boy, and you know, it was a fantastic life.

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Speaker 4: That era when the Cross was a frantic hive of

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Speaker 4: crooks and curious civilians, corrupt police, seen slees and everything

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Speaker 4: in between is long gone. I lived on the edge

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Speaker 4: of the Cross in the late nineteen nineties and it

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Speaker 4: was par for the course to end up on a

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Speaker 4: barstool late at night in the famous Bourbon and beefsteak

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Speaker 4: bar near the El Alamaine Fountain and strike up a

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Speaker 4: conversation with a bloke who'd been released from Long Bay

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Speaker 4: jail just that morning. There were street fights, bashings, drug busts,

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Speaker 4: you name it. It was a place permanently on edge,

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Speaker 4: not anymore. Kelly decided she wanted to try and walk

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Speaker 4: in the footsteps of her famous relative, so we headed

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Speaker 4: out on foot together. We started outside the site of

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Speaker 4: the old Whiskey Ego Go nightclub in Busy William Street.

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Speaker 4: So it's disappeared, it is to be destroyed. Obviously beautiful, vile.

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Speaker 2: Building, but it would have been around soft after the Cross.

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Speaker 2: You see the neon lights.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely so for those that didn't want.

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Speaker 2: To party in the Cross, as would you go to

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Speaker 2: then you want? And this is where Marg went and

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Speaker 2: too many yeah, and the whiskey and go go. So

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Speaker 2: she went there with a friend on a night out

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Speaker 2: and that's when he said to her, I'm going to

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Speaker 2: marry you.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, straight off, straight off. Never did marry her though, no, no,

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Speaker 4: And he was the discotheque promising ten thousand feet of

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Speaker 4: entertainment and the right decor for every mood, along with

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Speaker 4: its little cage circular stages for scantily clad female dancers

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Speaker 4: had been consigned to the distant past. But on this

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Speaker 4: spot Reagan got his entree into King's Cross and to Marg,

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Speaker 4: so I think he's probably got a job.

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Speaker 2: Yeah by night, yeah, working his other angles by day.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and meeting other criminals, absolutely, and starting to get

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Speaker 4: it to find his feet.

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Speaker 2: Well, you couldn't be this close as the Cross and

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Speaker 2: not have your age saffrons. McPherson's your freeman's No could yeah.

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Speaker 4: No, And don't forget his mother didn't live far from here.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, bless her.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, just would have been just over to it. So

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Speaker 4: this boocame his neighborhood very.

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Speaker 2: Quickly, and you can see the Coca Carla side.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. We went up to Darlinghurst Road and strolled through

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Speaker 4: what was once a magic mile of depravity. Strip clubs,

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Speaker 4: Vice Denz, Legal Casinos, the Pink pussy Cat, the Mayfair Hotel,

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Speaker 4: the Rex Hotel, lay Girls all gone the place. Gentrified.

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Speaker 4: Sanitized might be a better word. It's all I like it.

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Speaker 4: So here we are col Darlinghurst Road, Darla back in

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Speaker 4: your relatives old, Yeah, stomping ground. What do you reckon?

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Speaker 4: She's changed a lot, hadn't it even in five to

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Speaker 4: ten years.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been sad really because it was so much fun.

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Speaker 2: I mean it was always grotty, but it's this. It

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Speaker 2: was grotty with a spit of sponge cappen into it.

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Speaker 2: I think in today's terms we say not much of

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Speaker 2: a vibe.

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Speaker 4: Yes, but can you imagine him here?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, you can imagine him walking up and down. I

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Speaker 2: can see him in a leather jacket. Yeah, do you reckon?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? Looking for a quid?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, And back then you could make it in all

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Speaker 2: sorts of ways. But it's funny because once you listen

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Speaker 2: to the tapes and you hear all the names, and

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Speaker 2: you can sort of put yourself there, can't you.

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Speaker 4: Like, yeah, like the Groovy Room. Yeah, you that groovy room.

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Speaker 4: I admit I felt a bit nostalgic for the King's Cross.

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Speaker 4: I remembered just a quarter century ago. Yeah, well, I am,

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Speaker 4: well twenty five years ago. It was still electric, you know,

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Speaker 4: I didn't come awake until midnight. No, and the neon

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Speaker 4: lines and blue lights of the police cars all the time,

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Speaker 4: the ambos, the big bounces in their bow ties.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely black shirt, bow.

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Speaker 4: Tie, and it was still it was a bit dangerous

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Speaker 4: still go oh, go the Cross. What time is it?

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Speaker 4: You know, what time of day do you want to go?

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Speaker 4: It was still a possibility of danger right oh yeah.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely.

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Speaker 2: She was rough and tumbled, absolutely rough and tumbled. There

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Speaker 2: was all the American sailors and she was a dent

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Speaker 2: iniquityquity with the big girl and a cake of Carla

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Speaker 2: signing off.

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Speaker 9: You go.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: It would have been amazing though back in the mid sixties.

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Speaker 2: You just I can imagine it with the jags and

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Speaker 2: the old cars coming up.

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Speaker 4: The street and the little ballman, yeah.

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Speaker 2: You know, and the music pumping everywhere, and drugs are

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Speaker 2: only just coming in. You've got Vietnam veterans everywhere.

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Speaker 4: Even the clubs were pretty by today's standards, weren't exactly

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Speaker 4: you know, wildly riscue right, No, exactly, girls with little

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Speaker 4: things on the tassels, the tassel kitty tassels, the beef

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Speaker 4: and bourbon.

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Speaker 2: You'd always find the King's Cross detective in there if you're.

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Speaker 4: Looking for one. But now it's like, you know, there's

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Speaker 4: young families pushing prams up the main drag. We popped

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Speaker 4: over to the famous Tradesman's Arms Hotel on the corner

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Speaker 4: of Palmer and Liverpool Streets in Darlinghurst and what would

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Speaker 4: have been a quick walk from the Colonel and Reagan's

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Speaker 4: place in the nineteen sixties. This was one of your

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Speaker 4: true blue gangster pubs, the mobster tilly divine's favorite watering

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Speaker 4: hole in the late nineteen twenties, and an establishment with

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Speaker 4: a dangerous reputation through most of the twentieth century. For Reagan,

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Speaker 4: it would have been a handy port of call for

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Speaker 4: either something he needed like a weapon, or a person

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Speaker 4: he wanted to get in touch with through the criminal

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Speaker 4: telegraph network. He could also do business out of the

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Speaker 4: corner pub, and with his back to the wall, he

336
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:16,120
Speaker 4: could see who was coming from at least two directions.

337
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Speaker 4: It's now a funky gastro pub called East Village. That's

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Speaker 4: an say, And we're actually not very far from where

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Speaker 4: the colonel.

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Speaker 2: Lived, the Colonel's one way, and Darling's first police stations

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Speaker 2: the other.

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Speaker 4: Right in the middle of it yea dead set.

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Speaker 2: And here because Arnie mag suggested we.

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Speaker 4: Come and have a little bit back in the real world.

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Speaker 4: Our hunt for official paperwork in relation to Reagan's life

346
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 4: and death became what could only be described as a

347
00:24:54,560 --> 00:25:00,879
Speaker 4: bureaucratic practical joke. Kelly set herself the task of getting

348
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Speaker 4: some of the most critical documents Reagan's criminal record and

349
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Speaker 4: the file for the coronial inquest into his murder in

350
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Speaker 4: nineteen seventy seven. From the outset. It felt like she

351
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:19,399
Speaker 4: was hacking her way through thick Lantana. Kelly decided to

352
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Speaker 4: keep a record of the battle with our audio diaries.

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Speaker 2: How hard can it be? Like, you know, everyone's saying

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Speaker 2: in the seventies it was really bad record keeping, but

355
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Speaker 2: people weren't stupid. In the seventies, they could still put

356
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 2: things back in a box that's clearly labeled. And how

357
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Speaker 2: do you lose the criminal record of one of Sidney's

358
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Speaker 2: most notorious criminals, who suspected of murdering twelve people? When't

359
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 2: you have a criminal record in his antecedents in each

360
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Speaker 2: one of those murder boxes. Like, it's really hard to

361
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Speaker 2: just blame cleric error. It's like, it's very, very frustrating.

362
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Speaker 4: Reagan's voluminous police file. A source told me it amounted

363
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Speaker 4: to about ten boxes of material remained sealed away from

364
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 4: the public because his death was still an active cold case.

365
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:15,159
Speaker 4: But Kelly didn't give up, and she never took no

366
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:19,199
Speaker 4: for an answer. The first paperwork to bob to the

367
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:29,160
Speaker 4: surface after almost fifty years was Reagan's police consorting cards. Consorting,

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Speaker 4: associating or communicating with at least two people who have

369
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 4: previously been convicted of an indictable offense is an offense

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Speaker 4: under the Crimes Act if prior to that consorting you'd

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Speaker 4: received an official warning by police. It's a law aimed

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Speaker 4: at disrupting organized criminal activity. In the nineteen sixties, the

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Speaker 4: persistent monitoring of criminals like Reagan not only kept them

374
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 4: on their toes, but was a legal path to detaining

375
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:12,640
Speaker 4: them for questioning. Naturally enough, many criminals saw it as

376
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 4: official harassment. The consorting information on Reagan, where he was seen,

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Speaker 4: who he was seen with, what vehicle he was driving,

378
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 4: was a treasure trow for us. Here were more than

379
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 4: thirty five digitized pages of information on Reagan that had

380
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 4: never been made public before. The consorting cards were literally

381
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 4: the old fashioned, lined four by six inch index cards

382
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 4: used in pre computer offices as a convenient way to

383
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:54,919
Speaker 4: accumulate and store information. Reagan's first card was written up

384
00:27:55,119 --> 00:28:02,639
Speaker 4: in the early nineteen sixties, and whether by accident or

385
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 4: Reagan's cunning, they had his name wrong. They typed John

386
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 4: Stuart Reagan and had Stuart John Reagan along with John

387
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 4: Stuart Carlton and the boy as alias's. He was described

388
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 4: as five foot eight inches or one hundred seventy two

389
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Speaker 4: centimeters tall, of medium build and complexion, with brown hair

390
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 4: and blue eyes. Under peculiarities, it stated scar left side

391
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 4: upper lip. His occupation was laborer. The first date was

392
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:48,000
Speaker 4: July twenty, nineteen sixty two, when Reagan was sixteen, and

393
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 4: listed an assault and robbery a year later there was

394
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 4: another a salt of Fence in May nineteen sixty five,

395
00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 4: he was seen driving a dark green Rover Sedan registration

396
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 4: an X zero three five. We'll come back to the

397
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 4: consorting cards throughout the podcast, given they literally run until

398
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 4: a matter of days before he was shot dead. In

399
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 4: nineteen seventy four, while we didn't yet have Reagan's criminal

400
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 4: record or the inquest paperwork, Kelly began pressing the New

401
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 4: South Wales Cold Case Homicide Unit for a meeting with

402
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 4: herself and Reagan's widow, Marg She phoned Detective Inspector Nigel

403
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 4: Warren of the New South Wales Unsolved Homicide Squad. Interestingly,

404
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 4: Detective Warren has also been a point of contact for

405
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 4: the Australian's hit podcast Bronwyn, which investigates the disappearance of

406
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 4: lennox head mother Bronwyn Winfield. In nineteen ninety.

407
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 2: Three, I toiy might applied for the coronial file and

408
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 2: it would take twelve months, and then he said, oh,

409
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 2: that we probably wouldn't get a homicide file because it's

410
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 2: seen to still be an active case. And he said,

411
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 2: like they're never suspended, they're just sitting there waiting for

412
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 2: more information. And I said, oh, so when was the

413
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 2: review done And he said, well, we didn't investigation into

414
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 2: the death of two thousand and four, and then in

415
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen the matters were reviewed again and they plan

416
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 2: on revealing them every five to ten years. And I said, well,

417
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 2: nobody from my family was contacted, and my Auntie marg

418
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 2: wasn't contacted. He said, oh no, and I thought, well

419
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 2: that's a bit strange. And then he said, look, we're

420
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 2: a bit gun shy giving out information because there was

421
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 2: a podcast where the next of Kim did a podcast

422
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 2: on Lynett Dawson.

423
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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the teacher's pet by at least correct. Kelly

424
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 4: said she was told that the Reagan Police murderphile contained

425
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 4: more than one hundred witness statements.

426
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Speaker 2: Well, I did say that to Nigel. I said, you

427
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 2: do realize of those one hundred statements you've got, probably

428
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 2: seventy five of them are deceased. We're getting to the

429
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 2: bottom of the barrel when it comes to people who

430
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 2: were even alive then. And if we don't, I mean,

431
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 2: the people are there. They could go back and speak

432
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 2: to them, but from what I gather when you review it,

433
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 2: they haven't. Because he did say to me on Nowadays

434
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 2: we've got all CCTV, but back then it saw footwork.

435
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 4: Kelly's hard work bore fruit. She and Marg were invited

436
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 4: for a meeting at the New South Wales Unsolved Homicide

437
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 4: Squad offices in Parramatta, west of the Sydney CBD. Kelly

438
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 4: drove in from the farm in Young and met Marg

439
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 4: in Sydney. It was the first time Mark had spoken

440
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 4: to police about Reagan since his murder in September nineteen

441
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 4: seventy four. Kelly rang me straight after the meeting in

442
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 4: twenty twenty. You too, Hey, Matt, good akel. You just

443
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 4: got out of your meeting.

444
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, ready to report in.

445
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 4: This was a big moment for Kelly, the Reagan family

446
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:21,719
Speaker 4: and especially Marg. Who did you meet with?

447
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:25,479
Speaker 2: So we met with Detective Inspector Nigel Warren, who's the

448
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 2: head of Unsolved Thomicide and he's offsideer Andrew.

449
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 4: Did they allow you to record that meeting?

450
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 2: I said, I brought a record. He said no, we

451
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 2: won't be recording on it.

452
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 4: Right, okay, So tell me what happened off the bat well?

453
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 2: He just said to me, can I ask you what

454
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 2: your motivation is? I said, Look, originally I wanted to

455
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 2: know two things. I said, You've got to understand all

456
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 2: my life, I've had this thrown at men, and I

457
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 2: wanted to know the truth. So primarily I wanted to know, ay,

458
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 2: was he a psychopath? Be it murdered this little child?

459
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 4: Dominant?

460
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 2: And then when I started picking and looking and contacting people,

461
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 2: I started to get another picture. And then I wanted

462
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 2: to dig more. And then I wanted to dig more,

463
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 2: and now I want answers. And he said, oh yeah,

464
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 2: well we get some people, you know, the media get

465
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 2: onto and they want to do their documentary, you know,

466
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 2: and the families driven by the media. And I said,

467
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 2: I'm the one doing the driving here.

468
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 4: Police assured Kelly that they would once again review the

469
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 4: material at hand, and an official decision would be made

470
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 4: on whether to formally reopen the Reagan investigation. That decision

471
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 4: would take three years to materialize. Before Reagan had even

472
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 4: blown out the candles on his cake at Checkers, he

473
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 4: would be agitating the local underworld enough to be wearing

474
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 4: a bulletproof vest out in public and keeping a bodyguard

475
00:33:56,360 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 4: in tow. It was like he was daring sydney biggest

476
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 4: criminals and police to take him on I dare you,

477
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 4: Reagan was saying, Reagan's office, if you'd like to call it.

478
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:17,280
Speaker 4: That was a business called Barrack Motors in Oxford Street, Paddington,

479
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:19,959
Speaker 4: not far from where he was living with his mother,

480
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 4: the Colonel, in Liverpool Street. It was from here that

481
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 4: Reagan controlled his fledgling empire. Run of the mill extortion,

482
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:33,320
Speaker 4: of course, petty theft goods that fell off the backs

483
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:39,320
Speaker 4: of trucks and stolen consignments of electronic goods. But Reagan

484
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:43,760
Speaker 4: saw the bigger picture. He saw money in the towing business,

485
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 4: in car rentals, in the taxi game, retail outlets and

486
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:54,279
Speaker 4: flipping houses. In the property market, good old fashioned legitimate

487
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:59,720
Speaker 4: buying and selling real estate itself, bricks and mortar, nothing

488
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 4: like it. Reagan was a relentless wheeler dealer. If he

489
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 4: wasn't concocting ways to earn a quid, he was on

490
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 4: the telephone keeping across business in the Sydney underworld. Who

491
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,719
Speaker 4: was doing what, who had knocked off whom, who had

492
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:23,320
Speaker 4: nailed a big score. Meanwhile, his manic brain was trying

493
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:27,360
Speaker 4: to solve his own and his friend's legal problems. Like

494
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 4: his poor old mate Arthur. This was captured on the

495
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 4: secret Reagan tapes.

496
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 13: Yeah, is Arthur there? Both they.

497
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 12: That allow Arthur?

498
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:48,439
Speaker 8: What do you doing John?

499
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 4: The area?

500
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 14: Bugger?

501
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:52,839
Speaker 13: You're out of the prime.

502
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 5: What are we out there?

503
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 14: Yeah?

504
00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 5: I know I heard about it.

505
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:05,040
Speaker 4: The yes said drugs. I was talking.

506
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 13: I hadn't.

507
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:10,919
Speaker 5: Oh, I know, I was in a better week ago

508
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:12,240
Speaker 5: at your piece for drugs or something.

509
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:14,319
Speaker 13: Yeah.

510
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:20,240
Speaker 14: Good, pop's got your pitch man, Hi Fay wildly.

511
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 4: World. Here's the other bloke. I haven't known the other fellows.

512
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,880
Speaker 4: Reagan here mentions a detective by the name of Worsley.

513
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:34,239
Speaker 4: Reagan is familiar with him. It would be Worsley who

514
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 4: would track Reagan's movements before his death and ultimately deliver

515
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 4: the story of Reagan's murder at his inquest. That version

516
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 4: of events has never really been challenged in fifty years.

517
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 4: What they do?

518
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 9: Like?

519
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 4: Yo?

520
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:51,839
Speaker 14: Kay?

521
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 4: What do they say?

522
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:53,759
Speaker 12: They could said?

523
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:59,800
Speaker 4: Hey, whatever they said, I just put the stuff in

524
00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:00,800
Speaker 4: it said you had it?

525
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 2: Ah?

526
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 3: Where did they get your cron Where did they pinch

527
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 3: upon and plash from vision?

528
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 6: No?

529
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:17,800
Speaker 5: I just want a name because you're not about to

530
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:18,840
Speaker 5: found out of it.

531
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,479
Speaker 14: Because visuals fuck can't.

532
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 4: I'm not a bay Shadier. In late nineteen sixty five. However,

533
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:38,320
Speaker 4: death came to Reagan's office in Oxford Street. That insane

534
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 4: Brisbane crook John Andrew Stewart, part of the Brisbane mafia

535
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 4: at the time that tried to crack the Sydney underworld,

536
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 4: and his reform school buddy, the English born James Finch,

537
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 4: decided to pay Reagan a visit at Barrack Motors. It

538
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 4: was five days before Christmas and Stuart had already been

539
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:11,760
Speaker 4: on a rampage across Sydney. On November twenty six, Stuart,

540
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 4: brandishing a sawn off twelve gage shotgun, had tried to

541
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 4: murder gangster Robert Lawrence Steele at Wallara. In court. Steel

542
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 4: stayed staunch. He said he couldn't see who had shot

543
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:33,960
Speaker 4: at him. Then, on December four, Stuart impersonated a New

544
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 4: South Wales police officer and raped a woman in Elizabeth Bay.

545
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:43,920
Speaker 4: Stuart on bail, turned up outside Barrick Motors with Finch

546
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:51,280
Speaker 4: on December twenty and a gunfight broke out. Reagan was wounded.

547
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 4: A stray bullet hit Giuseppe Kappa, one of the Barrack

548
00:38:56,560 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 4: Motors employees. Kappa survived. Why had Stuart and Finch lashed

549
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:09,360
Speaker 4: out at Reagan. Stuart was twenty four, Reagan was twenty.

550
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:14,480
Speaker 4: Was it a brash attempt from Stuart to eliminate the

551
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 4: rising criminal star that was Reagan? Incredibly girlfriend Mark remembers

552
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:25,720
Speaker 4: Johnny coming home that day covered in blood.

553
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 3: I remember, not the actual, isn't it? But I remember

554
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 3: john coming to his mother's house with Benes all over

555
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:43,239
Speaker 3: his last name, black T shirt and I think there's

556
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 3: a picture there somewhere really with black T shirt and

557
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 3: on his left shoulder, Yeah, whatever shoulder it was in

558
00:39:54,800 --> 00:40:02,960
Speaker 3: behind the T shirt and his mother. By now, his

559
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:04,879
Speaker 3: mother didn't have priet, so I don't know. I think

560
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:08,280
Speaker 3: he wouldn't ask able. Okay, he is to accuse Johnny.

561
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 6: You remember him talking about James Finch.

562
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:14,399
Speaker 3: I think for that he said that I was shot,

563
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:19,800
Speaker 3: but he accused. I think his words were, James Spinch,

564
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:25,319
Speaker 3: Did you wonder why you did it? I thought, where?

565
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 3: What's going on? This is a new world I've walked

566
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:30,239
Speaker 3: into it.

567
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 7: Do you think it was around this period that things

568
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 7: started getting different in terms of him escalating and is

569
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 7: diversifying in.

570
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 6: Terms of his work.

571
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:47,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, I said it started.

572
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 14: Then.

573
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:49,400
Speaker 6: Did you ever ask about the shooting?

574
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:54,120
Speaker 3: You weren't supposed to ask questions. You don't ask questions,

575
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:55,800
Speaker 3: is what it is.

576
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:57,040
Speaker 4: Tell I knew this.

577
00:40:57,840 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 3: I learned how to drive in the back streets, okay,

578
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:05,840
Speaker 3: in those narrow streets, just meaning him. Okay, if I

579
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 3: didn't do the right thing, he was, get out of

580
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:10,719
Speaker 3: the car. I'll get out of the car and I'll

581
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:15,959
Speaker 3: sit on the fence. I told you a million times.

582
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 3: I had drunk this time, and you pie, if we plant,

583
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:22,919
Speaker 3: you're not listening. And you listened to what I was saying.

584
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 3: Now let's try again. I learned how to read number plates.

585
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:33,040
Speaker 3: This is when my life changed. I learned to have

586
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 3: to read number plates from the looking through the vision mirror.

587
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:39,800
Speaker 3: What number plate is that one behind me?

588
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:42,360
Speaker 13: Mark how it was?

589
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 4: That's when it started.

590
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 6: And wasn't assumed that you didn't ask questions.

591
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 3: You don't ask questions. So I know now it was

592
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 3: paddlings and it wasn't his business partners. I think his

593
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 3: life changed. He changed completely. And sometimes in life, greed

594
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:14,400
Speaker 3: and money and to be powerful came me into his world.

595
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:16,680
Speaker 3: I think that he loved it.

596
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:19,359
Speaker 4: He loved what he was doing.

597
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:24,279
Speaker 3: He loved the sense that he was mixing with those

598
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 3: people so biggest mistati of manly his life.

599
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 4: The deepening of Reagan's violence was beginning to show by

600
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:35,759
Speaker 4: the time he turned twenty one. Before that he had

601
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 4: attracted attention for various instances of assault, and by the

602
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 4: end of nineteen sixty five he had crossed over by

603
00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 4: mixing with those people. As marg had described it. Now

604
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:54,239
Speaker 4: firearms had entered the Reagan picture. He had already engaged

605
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 4: in a Wild West style shootout with other criminals in

606
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 4: a public street, and he was arming himself with a

607
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 4: variety of weapons. Guns too, were suddenly being hidden in

608
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 4: the various places he lived in and frequented. There was

609
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 4: no turning back. Young Probationary Constable John Burks first posting

610
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:22,440
Speaker 4: in the early nineteen sixties was Darlinghurst Police Station and

611
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:26,440
Speaker 4: he served there for eleven years. He would come to

612
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:32,240
Speaker 4: know all the crooks, and he would never forget Stuart John.

613
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:35,880
Speaker 14: Reagan going back in those days. And they said there

614
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 14: was no drugs, Yes, no, I mean you know there was.

615
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:43,920
Speaker 14: Well I first went there. All the lanes were open

616
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:47,279
Speaker 14: Woods Lane, and that you know, all the brothels, yes,

617
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 14: and all the strip clubs were going up the cross,

618
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:56,040
Speaker 14: you know at Surf city there at the top of

619
00:43:56,120 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 14: the cross there at William and Darlings Road. Well, they

620
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:02,799
Speaker 14: used to have all the top acts beal he thought,

621
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 14: from the Aztecs raying Brown on the whispers and the

622
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 14: joint was really rocking, you know.

623
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 8: But there was no.

624
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:14,239
Speaker 14: A lot of violence, but there was no drugs. I

625
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:21,319
Speaker 14: can remember as a protective was my mate. We saw

626
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:25,399
Speaker 14: this blake shifting back in the village and what's he doing?

627
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 14: We're pulling up listening here with you and what do

628
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:32,480
Speaker 14: you do? Anyway, we searched him and he had a

629
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 14: match box with a bit of grass in it. Yes,

630
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 14: probably enough to roll a joint.

631
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:42,719
Speaker 4: You did you have any words one on ones with

632
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 4: I know you'd had a check car chase, but with

633
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:46,080
Speaker 4: Reagan in the streets.

634
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:48,479
Speaker 14: Oh yeah, quite a few times.

635
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:50,840
Speaker 4: And what was he like was he shifting?

636
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:53,920
Speaker 14: I know it was just to fall on you know.

637
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:57,640
Speaker 14: You can't talk to me, you can't do you know.

638
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 14: He was sort of right face. He's that sort of blake,

639
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:06,840
Speaker 14: very violent, vicious bloke, and would if he thought you

640
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:10,279
Speaker 14: were some sort of a threat to him, he would

641
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 14: just try and make up things about you. He was

642
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:13,760
Speaker 14: a real snake in the grass.

643
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:16,160
Speaker 3: He was no good.

644
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 14: It's probably one of the worst blokes I ever had

645
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 14: him to do it, very violent, yeah, always.

646
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:27,920
Speaker 4: One morning and off, Judy Burke spotted Reagan driving in

647
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:29,399
Speaker 4: Sydney's Inner East.

648
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 14: And one day I was on the day off actually,

649
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:36,280
Speaker 14: but I had an old court matter down at Central

650
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:39,759
Speaker 14: and I left home and in the morning, and I

651
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:44,320
Speaker 14: had my daughter with me. I was dropping her at school. Anyway,

652
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 14: I come out and I had my gun and handcuff,

653
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 14: my shoulder in one hand and my coat over my shoulder.

654
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:55,880
Speaker 14: I'll put him on the bottom of the car and

655
00:45:56,120 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 14: unlocked the card let my daughter. Anyway, I had back

656
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 14: to Susy raid and I heard this car coming but

657
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:07,480
Speaker 14: I didn't look, and I drove around passed me. When

658
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:11,000
Speaker 14: I looked, I thought it was a green Jaguar and

659
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 14: it was Reagan. I didn't say I recognized the car,

660
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:17,280
Speaker 14: and I thought he's going down there the Jet street.

661
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 14: Each other's face, and I knew at the time he

662
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:24,520
Speaker 14: was wanted for rape because it was in the days

663
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:27,520
Speaker 14: the name pg Fanes and I'm trying to think, where's

664
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:31,359
Speaker 14: a phone box. Anyway, I dropped a girl and then

665
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:35,759
Speaker 14: when I was coming back, I looked Graven Street to

666
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:41,600
Speaker 14: my right, and what he done, he'd followed me, so

667
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:47,600
Speaker 14: then a chase ensued. I've chased him in my car

668
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 14: and we've had a bathist five hundred around Kensington.

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00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 4: Burke screamed at Reagan to stop.

670
00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:01,960
Speaker 14: He didn't, and he's gone up a street called Day

671
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 14: Avenue and there's a stop sign at the top. So

672
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:11,800
Speaker 14: I've fired four shots that he was but unfortunately I

673
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 14: was firing right handed. I'm left handed, so one of

674
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 14: them was an air squink. Three of them penetrated the

675
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:22,319
Speaker 14: back of his car. Anyway, he got away.

676
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:28,800
Speaker 4: Reagan was dicing with death, and the only thing not

677
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:32,560
Speaker 4: on his books, as far as anyone knew, was murder.

678
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:44,400
Speaker 4: Until January seventeen, nineteen sixty seven, a.

679
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:47,239
Speaker 8: Man known as Big Barry was found yesterday with four

680
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 8: bullet wounds in his head in jungle like undergrowth in Paddington.

681
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:55,359
Speaker 8: Police said the man, Barry Leonard Flock, twenty eight, had

682
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:57,760
Speaker 8: told a friend he had been marked down for execution

683
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 8: by the underworld a week ago. His body was discovered

684
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:05,680
Speaker 8: yesterday just before noon by a woman she was exercising

685
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 8: her dog in an extensive area of undergrowth part of

686
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 8: the Scottish Hospital. Police believe Flock was lured or forced

687
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:16,279
Speaker 8: to march at gunpoint by his killer or killers into

688
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:20,359
Speaker 8: the thick undergrowth. Flock apparently put up his hands as

689
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:21,719
Speaker 8: the bullet smashed into him.

690
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:29,600
Speaker 4: For the first time. Johnny Reagan was now a murder suspect.

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Speaker 4: In the next episode of The Gangster's Ghost, Thank You John.

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00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:43,919
Speaker 13: Murdering Barry Flock, What was he like an new time?

693
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:47,919
Speaker 13: And John's relationship with him I could see.

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Speaker 1: The Gangster's Ghost is a production of The Australian. It's

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Speaker 1: written and presented by senior writer Matthew Condon and produced

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Speaker 1: and edited by multimedia editor leatsamaglu Our. Executive producer is Me,

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Speaker 1: Editorial director Claire Harvey. Special thanks to Lara Kamenos, Erica Rutlidge,

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00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:20,840
Speaker 1: Kristin Amiot, Jasper Leik, Stephanie Coombs, Sean Callanan, Lachlan Clear,

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Speaker 1: Ryan Osland, Amanda Willim Williams, Christine Kellet, Taron Blackhurst, Magdalena Zajak,

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00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:31,160
Speaker 1: Gisel Boetti, Genevieve Brammel, Lauren Bruce, sus Rolf and Jachina Carlson.

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Speaker 1: We can only do journalism like this with the support

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00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:45,200
Speaker 1: Australia's best journalism twenty four to seven. Join us at

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Speaker 1: gangsters Ghost dot com dot au.

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Speaker 3: St st.

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Speaker 6: St st

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Speaker 7: St st