1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,560 Speaker 1: They well. Reports are violence and aggression at Mount Barker Hospital. 2 00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: Let's have a chat with the Secretary of the Australian 3 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: Nursing and Midwifery Federation, Associate Professor Elizabeth Debars, Associate professor, 4 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:13,400 Speaker 1: good morning. 5 00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 2: To you, Good morning to you, and tell you. 6 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 1: What's happening out at Mount Barker. Paid a picture for us. 7 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:23,400 Speaker 2: Oh look, how things are getting dire out at Mount 8 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 2: Barker Hospital. We're hearing consistently that the staff out there 9 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:34,880 Speaker 2: have seen increased presentations of drug affected patients. A very 10 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 2: traumatic recent events with a violent aggressive patient in the 11 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:46,519 Speaker 2: emergency department that required three police officers plus two of 12 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:52,239 Speaker 2: the most robust doctors available to restrain them physically. So 13 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 2: that's five people literally having to put hands on a 14 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 2: person who was lashing out and hitting and kicking and 15 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 2: hunching people. We do have a real issue with the 16 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 2: drug affected people. We know that Dark Flat, which is 17 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 2: the park at the back of the hospital is often 18 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 2: has many people who've utilized the needle exchange program that 19 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 2: the hospital offers, which means that people are feeling increasingly 20 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 2: unsafe walking to and from their cars. There's a lot 21 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 2: more events of verbal aggression from both families and patients. 22 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 2: And what we're hearing is, especially from those nursing staff 23 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 2: in the emergency department, that while they know that they've 24 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:42,400 Speaker 2: got so called safe places to retreat, we're hearing very 25 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:45,839 Speaker 2: very loudly and clearly that their concern is not only 26 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 2: for themselves, but they do feel absolutely distraught at the 27 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 2: sense and the need for them to retreat and basically 28 00:01:56,000 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 2: abandon anyone else who's waiting in those waiting rooms while 29 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 2: they wait for a police assistant. 30 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 1: Are things getting worse in our hospitals in general? Is 31 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: Mount Barker just the tip of the iceberg? 32 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 2: Look? I think that's true. I think the difference we 33 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 2: have at Mount Barker Hospital and a couple others I 34 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 2: must say sadly, this isn't the end of the road. 35 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 2: What we've heard is in those locations where we have 36 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 2: successfully argued for and gained security presents, such as the 37 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 2: Mount Gambias, the Wallaroos of the World, and Port Piri, 38 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 2: and other locations where this issue has been a problem 39 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 2: and we have successfully managed to secure restraint trained security guards, 40 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 2: we are absolutely seeing and hearing a suppression of those issues. 41 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:56,360 Speaker 2: But in locations where they don't exist. We have actually 42 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 2: usked and that is why we've done this right of 43 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 2: entry who the Mount Barker Hospital, because we have asked 44 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 2: on behalf of the staff there to implement restraint trained 45 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:11,919 Speaker 2: security guards as part of a strategy to address these 46 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 2: issues of violence and aggression, and that has been resoundly rejected. 47 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 2: My point to this is, and I think our collective 48 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:26,079 Speaker 2: point is it's really becoming increasingly unsafe and we really 49 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:30,519 Speaker 2: think that it's time for the hospital administrators to actually 50 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 2: put on a flat pair of shoes, get out on 51 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 2: the ward, actually see for themselves and experience it for themselves. 52 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 2: And it comes back to that principle if you wouldn't 53 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 2: ask someone else to do it, and you wouldn't expect 54 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 2: yourself to be exposed to that type of violence and aggression, 55 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 2: why are you allowing or permitting or hosing down these 56 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 2: concerns that your staff are quite rightly raising. So we 57 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 2: think this is a necessity. Mount Barker, as we know, 58 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 2: is a growing, growing community. Whilst they have many positive 59 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 2: things that are surrounding that growing community, and we know 60 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 2: that there's a new hospital build waiting in the wings, 61 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 2: it does mean that that hospital is increasingly congested. It 62 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 2: does mean that the frequency of people coming is increasing 63 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 2: and we absolutely know, as we know in many parts 64 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 2: of South Australia there is a very serious and significant 65 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 2: drug problem adding to all of this. 66 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, so security guards, from what you've said, makes a 67 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:41,719 Speaker 1: big difference. Having them on there, having them visible and 68 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 1: present is just essential. 69 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 2: Really, it is. Sadly, it is. Look, we would absolutely 70 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 2: wish away that we would hope that the communities for 71 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:59,279 Speaker 2: such that we could be confident of safety for Stilf 72 00:04:59,320 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 2: and others. 73 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,479 Speaker 1: They will used to be like that. What you mentioned. 74 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: Drugs that's an issue, isn't it. 75 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 2: Drugs is, drugs are a major issue. And you know, 76 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 2: I think sadly, and I'm sure there's people much better equipped, 77 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 2: but societal norms have significantly changed. So I'm sure there's 78 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:19,360 Speaker 2: a you know, there's a lot of research and work 79 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 2: done in this space that could be discussed even further. 80 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:27,480 Speaker 2: But and we would love, we would love, don't get 81 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 2: me wrong, We would love the root cause of these 82 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 2: issues to be resolved, if you know, and we do 83 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 2: do advocacy on mental health strategies and strategies to keep 84 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 2: people away from drugs and alcohol is you know that 85 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 2: those types of things, and prevention is obviously better than cure. 86 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 2: But the sad reality is that we are because those 87 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 2: things are not being effective. We are in an environment 88 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 2: where we have to do symptom control. So it would 89 00:05:57,240 --> 00:05:59,239 Speaker 2: be great to get to the root cause and actually 90 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 2: eliminate the cause of the violence and aggression, but the 91 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 2: reality is we are dealing with those symptoms and I 92 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 2: think it's just not acceptable for us to continue to 93 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 2: ignore that, particularly when we are really desperate for nurses 94 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 2: and midwifes to continue working. We know that we don't 95 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 2: have enough of them working. We also know from this 96 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 2: right of entry that there are people suffering from post 97 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:30,360 Speaker 2: traumatic stress directly as a result of their exposure to 98 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:35,359 Speaker 2: violence and aggression at the Mount Barker Hospital. So these 99 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 2: are things that can and should have everything put towards 100 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 2: preventing them and dealing with at least that symptom control 101 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 2: in the absence of being able to deal with the 102 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 2: core issue. 103 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 1: Hasn't the government committed to safety in all our hospitals. 104 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:55,040 Speaker 1: So there was an Enterprise Bargaining Agreement ORACLE some years 105 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 1: ago that had a clause in it that had the 106 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:01,479 Speaker 1: government agreeing to that safety was paramount and it would 107 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: take whatever action necessary to. 108 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 2: Ensure that absolutely. And this is what we find rather incredulous, really, 109 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 2: is that there is an absolute guarantee and commitment by 110 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 2: the government on record and to their credit saying that 111 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 2: violence and aggression is unacceptable, that people's safety is essential. 112 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 2: And you would have seen we recently had a game 113 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 2: to their credit, you know, we're not diminishing from that, 114 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 2: the government spearheading a fantastic campaign on It's not part 115 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 2: of the job, which was dedicated to drive home the 116 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 2: message that violence and aggression is not part of the job, 117 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 2: it is unacceptable. But here we have the local health 118 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 2: networks absolutely rejecting outright the attempts to secure the security 119 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 2: personnel in order to try and bring about some form 120 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 2: of some form of bandaid thick to this, which is 121 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 2: really what it is to try and address some of 122 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 2: those symptoms and the symptom control we're talking about. So 123 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 2: it is it is absolutely gobsmacking. So I think the issue, 124 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 2: and this is one of the issues we raised consistently 125 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 2: and we continue to raise with the LHNS, the department 126 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 2: and the government, which is you can't create a structure 127 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 2: where you say one thing and the LHN say another. 128 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 2: And that's what they've currently got. Yes, the local sorry, 129 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 2: the local Horse networks. So the government has a policy. 130 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 2: The polity is as clear as crystal. It is an 131 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:40,439 Speaker 2: excellent policy. You go to the l HN. The l 132 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 2: HN s there's nothing to see here. No, we don't 133 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 2: believe it's out of quote and PS when they don't 134 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 2: write this in PS, it's not within our budget. 135 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's where it comes down to. Matt On the 136 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:55,960 Speaker 1: text line makes an excellent point. We're Safe work saying this. 137 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 2: Look, that is a great point. We we're in the 138 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 2: process of speaking more information from the site, but we 139 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 2: do think that there may be cause to then do 140 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:15,959 Speaker 2: a referral to Safe Work Essay. We know that we 141 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 2: have utilized or partnered I suppose that we're with Safe 142 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:24,440 Speaker 2: Work Essay in the past. I do think you know, 143 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:29,560 Speaker 2: we are very hopeful that by virtue of this entry 144 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 2: that we can continue to put forward or argue the case. 145 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 2: We are escalating. We're talking with members about what the 146 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 2: next steps might be and certainly we will be placing 147 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 2: this very firmly on the agenda with both the Local 148 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 2: Health Network but also the Minister to say look, enough 149 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 2: is enough. People can't work in this environment, you say, so, 150 00:09:56,880 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 2: we agree with you wholeheartedly. So where's the action that 151 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:02,560 Speaker 2: matched the word? 152 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 1: Yeah? Indeed, all right, our hospitals in the Hills Network 153 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:08,439 Speaker 1: or anywhere else for that matter, in a similar position 154 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 1: needing security as badly as this look. 155 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:14,200 Speaker 2: We do believe that there are a number of other 156 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:20,679 Speaker 2: locations a bit more broadly. So another one is gaul 157 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 2: Of Hospital that we will be looking more closely at 158 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 2: in coming weeks. And also the other one, which is 159 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 2: increasingly concerning is is the Victor Harbor Hospital. So we 160 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:39,320 Speaker 2: do believe that there are other locations that are also 161 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 2: similarly in need. And again, you know, the proof is 162 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:45,960 Speaker 2: in the pudding. We have had very very positive and 163 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 2: successful results in those locations who have actually implemented this 164 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 2: restraint transsecurity, and we just find that we're quite it's 165 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 2: quite concerning and disturbing about you know, all of the 166 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 2: all of the experience and the evidence points towards the 167 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 2: necessity for this. Why the constant rejection apart from you know, 168 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 2: the obvious, which is doesn't doesn't you know, doesn't match 169 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 2: the numbers. And but I think at the end of 170 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:19,320 Speaker 2: the day, we've got to put we've got to put 171 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 2: people physical mentally first, and that your budget is going 172 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:27,959 Speaker 2: to be completely blind by your constant tune of staff 173 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:31,960 Speaker 2: and personality. Don't feel supported, you aren't supported who get 174 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 2: either physically or mentally traumatized. And how does that relate 175 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 2: to other elements of the so called budget. I mean, 176 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 2: how does that go for return to work and recruitment 177 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 2: and retention costs. I mean, it's it's just it's it's 178 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:51,960 Speaker 2: not it's not looking at the picture as. 179 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 1: A whole and very important to look after staff or 180 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: their day to day. It also leaves patients and visitors 181 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 1: to PATI very vulnerable as well in those situations. So 182 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:06,840 Speaker 1: it's across the board. Yeah, I appreciate you. Yeah, appreciate 183 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: your time this morning. 184 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 2: Thank you, it's a pleasure. Thank you for your interest 185 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:11,079 Speaker 2: and let us know. 186 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 1: How it develops us as it moves along. Thank you. 187 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: Professor Elizabeth Debats, who's from the Nursing and Midwod Free 188 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:17,960 Speaker 1: Federation