Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Australians Money Puzzle podcast. I'm
Speaker 1: James Kirby Well, the editor at The Australian. You're welcome
Speaker 1: aboard everybody. I think you know, folks, there's an election
Speaker 1: coming down the line. When the government starts coming out
Speaker 1: with politically shrewd, if ultimately arcane news moments like threatening
Speaker 1: only by the way to eliminate debt card charges, which
Speaker 1: seems to be grabbing the headlines all week, probably something
Speaker 1: everyone can relate to. When you really dive into that,
Speaker 1: it's not going to make an awful difference to the
Speaker 1: many people who are aware and irritated by those charges.
Speaker 1: What would make a difference, I think is if they
Speaker 1: started to tackle some of the really big issues in housing.
Speaker 1: And it's not just investors. Every day Australians want to
Speaker 1: be able to buy a home, to know they can,
Speaker 1: particularly younger Australians first home buyers. Every day Australians, millions
Speaker 1: of them, are property investors. They're important, they're actually crucial
Speaker 1: to how the market operates. The market is it's a
Speaker 1: market and it's run by private investors. That is not
Speaker 1: an exaggeration, it's a fact. And they want a balanced
Speaker 1: playing field. My guest today, it's right across this. She's
Speaker 1: Sarah Petty. She's been on the show before. She's a
Speaker 1: real estate reporter at news Court, her son, she's a
Speaker 1: potential i think, first home buyers, so she has multiple
Speaker 1: qualifications to talk to us. How are you, Sarah, I'm good.
Speaker 2: How are you, James?
Speaker 1: Very good? Thank you very good. I was some of
Speaker 1: the things I was alluding to. There was around all
Speaker 1: sorts of ideas being bounced around at the moment, I've
Speaker 1: just seen would you believe? Before? As I walked in
Speaker 1: to do this on the screen, I saw a senator
Speaker 1: and she is on air as we speak, suggesting that
Speaker 1: mothers women single mothers get special early access to Super
Speaker 1: to buy a home. Other people in the Liberal Party,
Speaker 1: Tim Wilson, for instance, pushing hard that anyone can get
Speaker 1: access to Super to buy their first home. And then
Speaker 1: in recent days we've also had the notion that mortgage buffer,
Speaker 1: this is the three percent extra that the bank must
Speaker 1: add on to your rate to assess you accurately, that
Speaker 1: should be removed. If listeners don't understand that, we'd explain
Speaker 1: it to them in a moment. But all these things
Speaker 1: are all efforts to get people into the market. You're
Speaker 1: reporting all the time. Just give me straight off in
Speaker 1: terms of someone on the ground every day on reader
Speaker 1: state what's the tempo in the market, like just at
Speaker 1: the moments heah.
Speaker 2: In my opinion, it's a little bit two speed market.
Speaker 2: So you have capital cities like Melbourne, Dumarwin, Cobot, what
Speaker 2: all have actually seen a drop in prices over the
Speaker 2: last the twelve months to September, but in Perth, Adelaide
Speaker 2: and Brisbane prices are rising. Prices has increased by about
Speaker 2: twenty two from the last I saw, So it's very
Speaker 2: much dependent on where you are. And yeah, I guess
Speaker 2: what kind of buyer you are as well.
Speaker 1: It really is two speed. Melbourne prices are falling right.
Speaker 2: Yes, Melbourne's actually the worst performing market at the moment.
Speaker 2: Last time I saw, I think prices put down about
Speaker 2: around the three percent mark. So yes, there's a lot
Speaker 2: of reasons for that, which I'm sure you're aware of, James.
Speaker 1: They have been echoed on the show. But I think
Speaker 1: it's worth everyone knowing listening that we have this extraordinary
Speaker 1: and extraordinary situation where the second biggest city in the nation,
Speaker 1: which is about to become the biggest quite soon. Is
Speaker 1: the cheapest. It is cheaper than Sydney where that was
Speaker 1: always the case, Cheaper than Canberra relative Nue, Cheaper than Perth, surprise,
Speaker 1: cheaper than Adelaide. Come on, city of five million people
Speaker 1: is cheaper than Adelaide. That doesn't so some things amiss
Speaker 1: And I wonder if we zoning on that, Sarah, is
Speaker 1: it is it telling us something because there's certain issues
Speaker 1: with isn't that they did pilon the taxes in Victoria
Speaker 1: and the property investors certainly they certainly headed for the hills.
Speaker 1: But I just want to ask you whether whether on
Speaker 1: the ground in the market that people are of an
Speaker 1: opinion that they can waste in their prices. Even price
Speaker 1: growth will soften in some cities or in particular cities
Speaker 1: like Melbourne, they're waiting for the prices to actually fall further.
Speaker 1: Do you get people saying that to you?
Speaker 2: Sometimes? I think it's the more supply comes under the
Speaker 2: market because of rental providers or landlords selling up and
Speaker 2: perhaps moving elsewhere. I think property prices could remain either
Speaker 2: flat rub and drop more. I think that could be
Speaker 2: the case nationwide as well, in terms of maybe as
Speaker 2: more supply comes into the market. But I guess prices
Speaker 2: have to hit their peak in some areas at some point,
Speaker 2: so that'll be interesting. But yeah, we'll see whether or not.
Speaker 2: I think the market slows down. I think there's still
Speaker 2: a lot of reasons as to why it could go up,
Speaker 2: especially when interest rates drop. I think a lot of
Speaker 2: buyers will then that may have been waiting to get
Speaker 2: into the market make choose to get into that point.
Speaker 1: You're skeptical about that. All the economists, including property economists,
Speaker 1: saying price growth will slow. We were talking earlier before
Speaker 1: the show about is it paul A Monkton, that chief
Speaker 1: economist stat Bank of Queensland and his support there which
Speaker 1: basically says that, So do you think it won't happen
Speaker 1: at all or do you think it would just be
Speaker 1: a window of opportunity for buyers.
Speaker 2: I mean, I've had a crystal ball that would be
Speaker 2: fantastic in my opinion. I think that maybe as there's
Speaker 2: more of a push to build more properties and more
Speaker 2: pressure placed on Yeah, I guess governments to build more,
Speaker 2: they could be prices maybe begin to slow. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I think it's depending on the market. I think perhaps
Speaker 2: in Perth prices might start to slow down because I've
Speaker 2: been so rapidly increasing, But I think it depending.
Speaker 1: It's amazing, isn't it How cities can How on Earth
Speaker 1: can you have one really going up by twenty percent
Speaker 1: and the other one falling in the same national economic state?
Speaker 1: Has there ever been such divergence between the cities in
Speaker 1: terms of price action? I really don't. I can't remember
Speaker 1: a time. Certainly there was a period. There was another
Speaker 1: time where Perth had a big roll up on the
Speaker 1: commodity boom in the PREGFC and I expected was something
Speaker 1: like that then. So just looking across then in terms
Speaker 1: of how people are viewing property and action in the market,
Speaker 1: you're an unusual situation, aren't you. That you're on properly
Speaker 1: all day, But you're also the very people were You
Speaker 1: are one of the very people we were talking about
Speaker 1: right trying to get into the market. So what do
Speaker 1: you think of these notions of letting you access your
Speaker 1: super early or cutting the assessment rate Basically what they
Speaker 1: call the buffer where the bank's assess you on three
Speaker 1: percent more than your mortgage. So if your mortgage is
Speaker 1: sixth the bank actually assesses you on the basis that
Speaker 1: your mortgage is nine in et cetera. If it's seventy,
Speaker 1: assess you on the fact that it's ten. How does
Speaker 1: that affect you? How do you think affects people in
Speaker 1: your position?
Speaker 2: Well, I'll start with the super. I think that being
Speaker 2: able to access your super, I think, but potentially if
Speaker 2: you're low income earner and essentially you're just looking to
Speaker 2: put a roof over your head, I think it could
Speaker 2: be a great incentive in one way. However, sometimes these incentives,
Speaker 2: if everyone has more cash in their loll can access
Speaker 2: more cash in their pocket, this can drive property prices
Speaker 2: up and negate that bit of extra cash. So I
Speaker 2: think it's definitely dependent on the situation and what type
Speaker 2: of buyer you are. In terms of the service ability
Speaker 2: of the mortgage buffer, I think, in my opinion, could
Speaker 2: be a bit outdated in terms of the bank assessing
Speaker 2: if you could pay what an extra three percent on
Speaker 2: top of that interest rate. I think that I think
Speaker 2: based of how how much money you need to be
Speaker 2: able to put down today, which is a lot, I
Speaker 2: think it can copy a little bit out data. It
Speaker 2: could be at least dropped.
Speaker 1: Okay, it could be dropped because rates are dropping. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So let's say you were really close to buying a house,
Speaker 1: really close. You know you have it, but you need
Speaker 1: an extra, right, I got to pick a number. You
Speaker 1: need an extra eighteen thousand dollars and if you get that,
Speaker 1: you can have it, and you can tap your super
Speaker 1: for it. And it's the one you've been trying for years.
Speaker 1: You've found it. All your ducks are in a row.
Speaker 1: There's no other way you can get this money. Would
Speaker 1: you tap your super? And what first?
Speaker 2: This is almost like you're asking me personally.
Speaker 1: I am asking you personally. I'm asking you with your
Speaker 1: two hats on, as both a buyer of the type
Speaker 1: you're talking about, property, professional, property reporter. I'm asking you,
Speaker 1: would you do it? And what do you think? Then
Speaker 1: the cost to you ultimately would be would it be
Speaker 1: worth it? Do you think?
Speaker 2: I think honestly eighteen thousand In terms of yeah, if
Speaker 2: that's how much I would need to get a specific property,
Speaker 2: it could be a little bit over, But in terms
Speaker 2: of it would be very tempting to do so, because
Speaker 2: especially as your first home, and especially if you think
Speaker 2: it's worth that amount extra, it would be very tempting.
Speaker 2: In terms of the fact that I'll be in the
Speaker 2: workforce as a twenty six year old for the next
Speaker 2: at least I don't know, forty five years or so. Yeah,
Speaker 2: potentially the pros outweigh the cons in my situation.
Speaker 1: It's hard, isn't it. You know that you're pulling the
Speaker 1: legs from under your super basically, and it's all about compounding.
Speaker 1: But then you also know that you're going to get
Speaker 1: into the housing market. It's not just that you're not
Speaker 1: going to be paying rent, and it's not just that
Speaker 1: it's your gateway into the entire tax All the tax privileges, yes, exactly,
Speaker 1: the majority of them are linked with home ownership, aren't they.
Speaker 1: Right through capital against tax exemption is only the start
Speaker 1: in forty five years, when you go to retire, it's
Speaker 1: still a winner. And so I think if turning the question,
Speaker 1: I know I did turn the question on you, and
Speaker 1: it's a difficult question. If you turned it on me,
Speaker 1: I would say, Unfortunately, I agree with you, because unfortunately
Speaker 1: I know that the tax system is so loaded in
Speaker 1: favor of homeowners that unfortunately it's worth taking the money
Speaker 1: out of super in certain circumstances to get the house
Speaker 1: to get the house. So then when do you stop,
Speaker 1: just like the Senator this morning asking for particular issues
Speaker 1: for women that single mothers. I think it was and
Speaker 1: I should be across this, but it literally just broke
Speaker 1: an hour or two ago. But you can see how
Speaker 1: you open the door and it never ends to Super.
Speaker 1: You say, let people buy their homes with Super, let
Speaker 1: people pay their insurance with Super. Where does it end
Speaker 1: the other side of the coin, isn't it? Well take
Speaker 1: short break, we'll be back in a moment. Hello and
Speaker 1: welcome back to the Australians Money Puzzle podcast. I'm James
Speaker 1: Kirby and I'm talking with Sarah Petty of the herd
Speaker 1: Son and New Core property reporter on the ground who
Speaker 1: was regularly on the show and gives us a very
Speaker 1: fresh angle really on the market from her perspective and
Speaker 1: also her perspective as a potential first home buyer. By
Speaker 1: the way, folks, just to clarify, when I was talking
Speaker 1: in the first segment about new ideas around tapping Super,
Speaker 1: the woman I was trying to think of is Maria Kovakik.
Speaker 1: She's a senator and she is a Liberal Party senator
Speaker 1: and just this morning she has come out with a
Speaker 1: suggestion which is getting some attention as well, where single
Speaker 1: and divorced women would get access to their SUPER before
Speaker 1: they retire to buy a home. She argues that such
Speaker 1: women could otherwise be forced to rent forever or be
Speaker 1: left homeless. It's again, just like we were talking working with
Speaker 1: Sarah in the first segment. It's so vexed really in
Speaker 1: some ways that the super is there, the money is there,
Speaker 1: and you can do other things with it. In theory,
Speaker 1: what is the price of that. The price of that
Speaker 1: is that the person, for instance, in this situation would
Speaker 1: have less SUPER than they own their home, and what
Speaker 1: they would really need is a kind of a top
Speaker 1: rank financial advisor to do the numbers for them, and
Speaker 1: they would never be able to afford that. That is
Speaker 1: another part of the issue. Okay, so Sarah on that
Speaker 1: same issue. It just so happens. The first question is
Speaker 1: from Cameron, and he says about using super money and
Speaker 1: getting a first home. Personally, Cameron says, I'm torn. I
Speaker 1: already own a property, so if everyone gets an extra
Speaker 1: fifty k to pile into property, I'm all for it
Speaker 1: because my house price will go up. I don't want
Speaker 1: this to go ahead though, as a future property investor,
Speaker 1: I'd like prices to stay reasonable. Looking at it from
Speaker 1: diment point of view, I wholly agree that not owning
Speaker 1: your home in old age is a significant disadvantage, and
Speaker 1: overall I think it probably should be allowed with a
Speaker 1: few caveats. There you go. That's interesting about that. Do
Speaker 1: you think any of these claims, if you like, will
Speaker 1: come to anything, Sarah. That is we're literally getting every
Speaker 1: other week now ideas for what property, ideas about what
Speaker 1: you can do, which is super. Do you think this
Speaker 1: will ever come to pass? We know that the Liberal
Speaker 1: Party has a policy stated now that you can get
Speaker 1: up to fifty grand out from your super. The Labor
Speaker 1: Party is not budging on the issue at all. If
Speaker 1: it came to pass. Do you think people would tap it?
Speaker 2: I think so. I think absolutely. I think be a
Speaker 2: really great way of a first time bias to get
Speaker 2: into the market at a young age and at the
Speaker 2: time they can afford to make. Maybe there's risks or
Speaker 2: take those risks in terms of buying a property. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think it definitely does depend on your age, though
Speaker 2: I probably wouldn't suggest doing it at the end of
Speaker 2: your working career, as that is your nested but it
Speaker 2: would be yeah, I think depending on your age, I
Speaker 2: think it could be a great Indea.
Speaker 1: What your point is that you've time to catch up.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, it will give you time to catch up, and
Speaker 2: hopefully home prices increase enough that when you do sell
Speaker 2: that property, you've made more money than you would have
Speaker 2: putting it in your super account.
Speaker 1: You wouldn't be paying rent anymore, which is the huge
Speaker 1: issue that you would have to bake into any assumptions.
Speaker 1: And it's a powerful issue that we're underplaying, probably an underestimating. Okay, now,
Speaker 1: question from Donna, Hello Donna. She says, what impact could
Speaker 1: Elon Musks ten thousand dollars box of all houses have
Speaker 1: on the property market. It's interesting what Donna's referring to.
Speaker 1: And she sent us a little video of of Elon Musk,
Speaker 1: who somehow has the time to do this along with
Speaker 1: everything else on Twitter and Tesla and space rockets, not
Speaker 1: to mention the amount of time he must be taking
Speaker 1: appearing beside Trump on his rallies. And it struck me
Speaker 1: that in our own market. Jeff Harris, Now, some listeners
Speaker 1: might be familiar with Jeff Harris. He was the co
Speaker 1: founder of flight Center. He was he hit the jackpot twice.
Speaker 1: He was co founder of flight Center and then would
Speaker 1: you believe he was effectively a co founder and co
Speaker 1: investor in boost Juice in the very early days. So
Speaker 1: he's got it right twice in a row, big time.
Speaker 1: And he had a scheme where they would build sixty
Speaker 1: modular homes for homeless people in Melbourne some time ago,
Speaker 1: based in the Footscray area. I didn't catch up as
Speaker 1: to how that went to whether he ever got it done,
Speaker 1: but that was really interesting that it's like the tiny
Speaker 1: houses too. I've had represented us from tiny houses on
Speaker 1: the show. Sarah, do you think people are a bit
Speaker 1: stuck in their ways about when we talk about the
Speaker 1: housing and sorting out housing? This is still a thing
Speaker 1: that everybody wants a housecleaven about apartments, not to mention
Speaker 1: variations on that. Do you think people should be a
Speaker 1: bit more open minded potentially?
Speaker 2: I think it could be one thing. I think it
Speaker 2: could be a great way at less in the meantime,
Speaker 2: as when you continue to build more homes, the government
Speaker 2: continues to build more homes to set up these I
Speaker 2: guess portable homes to house the population as there are
Speaker 2: so many people struggling to keep a roof over their heads.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think it's actually a really great incent
Speaker 2: You've could be done in the short term, didn't. I
Speaker 2: think these boxable houses only take about an hour to construct,
Speaker 2: if I'm right, which is a lot quicker than building
Speaker 2: a home, that's for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, Again, this is a difficult area. But which
Speaker 1: would you prefer in your city? Lines of people homeless
Speaker 1: under bridges or lines of people going into modular homes.
Speaker 1: It's not an easy decision, but I think most people
Speaker 1: would lean in a very clear way. Okay, we have
Speaker 1: some really interesting questions from Paul from Rowan coming up.
Speaker 1: We will back in a moment. Hello, Welcome back to
Speaker 1: the Money Puzzle. I'm James Kirby talking to Sarah Petty. Okay,
Speaker 1: a question from Paul. Hi, guys, love the podcast. Question
Speaker 1: for you. With the government's ambitious objective to get one
Speaker 1: point two million houses built, private developers will have a
Speaker 1: massive role to play. Do you think there is likely
Speaker 1: to be a repeat of the home builder grants that
Speaker 1: were offered when COVID first hit Whoosh requestioned Paul. Yes,
Speaker 1: they absolutely showered the building industry with grants. Home builder
Speaker 1: grants at the time of COVID, and then on top
Speaker 1: of that, of course interest rates were extremely low, and
Speaker 1: so there was a glot really of incentives to build.
Speaker 1: Here we are as some years later, and actually the
Speaker 1: only date that managed to really build a lot is Victoria,
Speaker 1: and that is the only state that has seriously good
Speaker 1: supply coming in, which is, ironically, if you're an investor,
Speaker 1: the state where house prices are falling. It's a significant
Speaker 1: issue about how the affordability is better in Melbourne than
Speaker 1: it is in other cities. And I'm just thinking, even
Speaker 1: in my own world, we are on the Australian newspaper,
Speaker 1: for instance, we are continually getting people replanting themselves from
Speaker 1: city to Melbourne, for instance, where they were that this
Speaker 1: issue of the gap in what you can buy is
Speaker 1: remarkable considering you could have potentially the same job. I
Speaker 1: don't know about more at home. I think they might
Speaker 1: have learned their lesson about going too quick on home
Speaker 1: builder grants the last time post, so I don't think
Speaker 1: they will be showering us with more. I think they
Speaker 1: will try other things, even if it's a pretty hard
Speaker 1: knuckle stuff like finding and shaming councils that are slow
Speaker 1: in proving I see that as, for instance, a weapon
Speaker 1: that's been considered at the moment. Have you come across
Speaker 1: that story, Sarah, Yes, I've.
Speaker 2: Heard that they're I think in Victoria they've that's one
Speaker 2: of the things that the old government's trying to do
Speaker 2: is cut all that red tape and turn off all
Speaker 2: the nimbi's from development, slowing down development. Yes, I think
Speaker 2: in some areas that's definitely going to be an important
Speaker 2: aspect for building more homes, and it's already underway. So
Speaker 2: in terms of the home builder grands, I'm pretty sure
Speaker 2: the Northern Territory has just started accepting applications for its
Speaker 2: Homegrown Territory and Fresh Start New Home programs, which has
Speaker 2: grants ranging from ten thousand to fifty thousand dollars. It'll
Speaker 2: be interesting to see whether what that does for the
Speaker 2: building industry over there and if we try and emulate
Speaker 2: something similar.
Speaker 1: So yeah, so they're still coming, Paul. The States of course,
Speaker 1: can move on these things autonomously, so you will find
Speaker 1: there are home builder grants programs, as Sarah's finding out,
Speaker 1: literally being being signed off new ones as we speak.
Speaker 1: So there you are. I had that one. I also
Speaker 1: had that one wrong, but the state governments will do
Speaker 1: what they want to do. And as Sarah said at
Speaker 1: the start, it's a too it's a two speed market.
Speaker 1: So what one state government needs to do in housing,
Speaker 1: say in Wa where prices are going up by twenty percent,
Speaker 1: and another stake government might need to do in Victoria
Speaker 1: where prices are falling, will be completely different. Okay, final
Speaker 1: question from Rowan, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts
Speaker 1: on whether capital gains tax is holding back residential development
Speaker 1: and contributing to the housing crisis. And he then talks
Speaker 1: about various twists and turns around that I really don't
Speaker 1: know the capital gains tax for property investors anyone who's
Speaker 1: interested properly investment. Obviously, there are two huge tax issues
Speaker 1: which are accessible to the every day Australian and which
Speaker 1: is one of the reasons that the entire market is
Speaker 1: dominated by private investors. Negative gearing where you can deduct
Speaker 1: the losses or excess costs of your investment from your
Speaker 1: income tax, and then the day you sell your property
Speaker 1: if you hold it for more than a year, you
Speaker 1: get a discount fifty percent discount on capital gains tax.
Speaker 1: And capital gains tax kind of works out at roughly
Speaker 1: what your tax rate is income tax rate. To simplify it, now,
Speaker 1: what Rowan is suggesting is that we unleash even more
Speaker 1: private investors into the market. If he says capital against
Speaker 1: taxes holding back residential development, then obviously if you removed it,
Speaker 1: that would mean it would unleash it. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think that's so unlikely. I think actually labor are
Speaker 1: actually talking. They're reviewing capital gains tax and negative gearing,
Speaker 1: aren't they say? H At the moment at least Treasury is.
Speaker 2: Well, that's why I say, that's quite a contentious issue
Speaker 2: at the moment. Aster what's going to happen with the
Speaker 2: negative gear? I'm sure it's going to That's a really
Speaker 2: fund part about tax system, which is, yes, so heavily
Speaker 2: geared around property investment and the tax incentives. Say yes,
Speaker 2: it'll be interesting to see. I think there would be
Speaker 2: just a massive shake up of the housing market if
Speaker 2: either of these elements will change in any way.
Speaker 1: Do you think people are are worried about this review?
Speaker 1: The review is from is officially Treasury, right, which is
Speaker 1: not officially the government as such, not the Albanese government.
Speaker 1: But hey, it's happening. Do you think people are worried
Speaker 1: and do you think anything will come off this review
Speaker 1: of capital gainst tax and negative gearing? Are people worried
Speaker 1: out there in the market?
Speaker 2: Absolutely? I think a lot of people are. I think
Speaker 2: that I believe or over ninety listening of properties or
Speaker 2: rental properties in the market are owned by investors. So
Speaker 2: if you start to draw back on these tax incentives
Speaker 2: for people to purchase properties, I think we're going to
Speaker 2: have a lot of issues, and especially in Victoria, it'll
Speaker 2: probably be the straw that broke the cap was back.
Speaker 1: Why do you say that?
Speaker 2: Because Victoria is rey hampered by by taxes on property investors,
Speaker 2: from land taxes to now the airbnb taxing even which
Speaker 2: is nationwide. I think that'll be if it becomes too
Speaker 2: costly to own an extra property, I think that'll lead
Speaker 2: more people to sell up, and it won't be good.
Speaker 1: That's a million dollar question, isn't it it? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think because maybe that is that's there is evidence
Speaker 1: of that happening already, isn't there in Victoria even without
Speaker 1: any changes to c GT or negative gearing? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah, I think it'll be I think it'll be
Speaker 2: more especially problematic and as a current tenant myself hopefully
Speaker 2: soon to be first time buyer. It would be very
Speaker 2: problematic if I was continuing on as a tenant, that's
Speaker 2: for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Interesting. I'll just leave your listeners with one last thing,
Speaker 1: which is really worth thinking about. The negative gearing. People say, well,
Speaker 1: once upon a time the Labor government tried to close
Speaker 1: it down and it was poor Keating and he didn't
Speaker 1: manage it. And if Paul Keaton couldn't manage it, who could.
Speaker 1: But there's actually a much more recent example. It's New
Speaker 1: Zealand and Jacinta Aardurne, who, by the way, I apologized
Speaker 1: last week I called Justinta a Hearn irish her. I
Speaker 1: didn't mean to. Justin to Ardarn went to close down
Speaker 1: the negative gearing and CGT equivalent tax breaks in New Zealand.
Speaker 1: And they're rentals sowared and narrative Conesby who's been on
Speaker 1: the show at the point that they are now among
Speaker 1: the dearest in the world. And guess what. The new
Speaker 1: government in New Zealand has reversed those changes that the
Speaker 1: ur Durn government tried to bring in. It's very hard
Speaker 1: to go near this issue successfully, but we'll see okay, Hey,
Speaker 1: thank you very much Sarah for coming on the show.
Speaker 1: Great to have you on the show again.
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Always good to get your point of view on things.
Speaker 1: It's a distinct point of view from people we often
Speaker 1: talk about what we don't actually meet that often on
Speaker 1: the show, and we should do so more often. Thank
Speaker 1: you very much everyone for listening. Do keep those questions
Speaker 1: coming in The email is the Bunny Puzzle at the
Speaker 1: Australian dot com dot au. Talk to you soon.