1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: This episode contains discussion of suicide, which some listeners may 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,600 Speaker 1: find distressing. If you're in crisis or you need support, 3 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:12,239 Speaker 1: contact Lifeline. On thirteen eleven fourteen, from the newsroom, A 4 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:16,600 Speaker 1: news still come to me. Gooday there, I'm Andrew Bucklow. 5 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 1: For this episode, I really wanted to interview a police 6 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: officer about one of the toughest parts of their job, 7 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 1: which is to inform someone that their loved one has died. 8 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: I wanted to know how they go about it, what 9 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:29,320 Speaker 1: it takes to do it, and how delivering that kind 10 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:32,520 Speaker 1: of news affects them personally. I found an officer who 11 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: agreed to the interview, but during the chat, something unexpected happened. 12 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:41,280 Speaker 2: I'll open up to you, Andrew, and you don't know this, 13 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 2: and the listeners wouldn't either. 14 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: What he said next completely stopped me in my tracks. 15 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:50,239 Speaker 1: I wasn't expecting it. I wasn't even sure how to 16 00:00:50,280 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 1: respond to it. I'll play the conversation now. Well, it's 17 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 1: the one job that every police officer dreads, having to 18 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:09,320 Speaker 1: knock on a stranger's door to tell them that one 19 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 1: of their loved ones has died. One man who knows 20 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:14,119 Speaker 1: that moment all too well is Mark Meredith. He spent 21 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 1: thirty eight years on the force in his hometown of 22 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: Dubbo in New South Wales. He joins me, now, good day, Mark, 23 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 1: thanks for having me, no, thank you for coming on. 24 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: I imagine this would be one of the hardest conversations to 25 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: have with someone. What is it like to have to 26 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 1: deliver a death message. 27 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 2: It's probably one of the hardest things you would have 28 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:35,120 Speaker 2: to do as a police officer, no doubt, no doubt. 29 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:39,319 Speaker 2: It's so so difficult for boys, because yes, it's our job, 30 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 2: but it's a double edged sword in a way, because 31 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 2: the emotions that go along with that responsibility is two fold. 32 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 2: It's the family that you're going to speak to those victims, 33 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 2: if you like, and it's a police officer as well, 34 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 2: because he's got a job to do and we've got 35 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 2: to illicit information because we act on behalf of the coroner, 36 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 2: which is sort of important to explain or I guess. 37 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 2: So we have a task to do, but then you've 38 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 2: got to deal with the emotional aspect then grief. 39 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 3: How do you deal with grief? You can't be a robot. 40 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:19,239 Speaker 3: Maybe some people think they can, but that's not true. 41 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 3: That's not true. 42 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 1: In TV shows when we see death messages, officers tend 43 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 1: to rock up in pairs. Is that common and if so, 44 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:27,359 Speaker 1: why is that the case? 45 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 2: Absolutely, you wouldn't want to do it on your own 46 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 2: because there's a lot to do. So we've got to 47 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 2: elicit information on behalf of the coroner, because there's a 48 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 2: coronial process that takes place, and where as police officers, 49 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 2: we're going to relay that information from the next of 50 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 2: kin and we've got to provide that information and the 51 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:55,079 Speaker 2: circumstances of the death or unnatural death as it is, 52 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:59,679 Speaker 2: to the coroner, so a coroner can essentially make a determination. 53 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 2: So the two police officers you need one or both, 54 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 2: are working sync to elicit that information in the most 55 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:13,799 Speaker 2: caring way and then your support for the family and 56 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 2: the loved ones that are there. So it might be 57 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 2: the other police officer's job to grab a relative or 58 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 2: someone that may be there in support for family or 59 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:26,360 Speaker 2: ask is there anyone that we can call that we 60 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 2: can get the vital information that we require, whereas the 61 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 2: other police officer may be dealing with the person. 62 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 3: That's struggling grief. 63 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 2: Put the jug on, have a cup of tea, sit down, cry, 64 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 2: give them a hug, what can we do for you? 65 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 2: It's not about delivering mail and then walking out the 66 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 2: door and going on to the next job. 67 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 3: Sometimes it takes a whole shift. 68 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 2: Because you can imagine the emotions and the grief and 69 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 2: the uncertainty in the thousands of questions that they would 70 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 2: have and you haven't got all the answers at this stage. 71 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 1: I would assume that every officer remembers the first death 72 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 1: message they ever have to deliver. Can you tell us 73 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 1: about yours first one? 74 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 2: And I was only very junior in my career and 75 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 2: a young lady she would have only been fifteen or sixteen, 76 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 2: and she come off a horse at the showground here 77 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,719 Speaker 2: at Dubbo and she was kicked by the horse to 78 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 2: the head and that was fatal injuries. So to see 79 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 2: a young girl that had her life in front of 80 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 2: her doing something that she loved, so to Troy and 81 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:41,559 Speaker 2: delivered that message to her parents. And if memory serves 82 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 2: me correctly, I think she wasn't from here, she was 83 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 2: visiting Dubbo. 84 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:49,479 Speaker 3: I can remember the family actually being here. 85 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 2: In Dubbus and actually having to go to the motel 86 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 2: and deliver that Oh my god. 87 00:04:57,320 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 3: You know you can't imagine it. 88 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: I can't imagine it at all. I mean, the first 89 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: time you ever had to deliver a message like that, 90 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:06,920 Speaker 1: did it mess you up a little bit? Or are 91 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 1: you able to kind of go, you know, that's the 92 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 1: job and put it behind you and move on. 93 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 2: I think we get on with it because that's our 94 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:18,599 Speaker 2: training as voice officers, first responders, I guess, but it 95 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 2: stays with you. 96 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 3: You never you never forget it, and it doesn't go away. 97 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 1: You spent your career working in your hometown of Dubbo. 98 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 1: I assume that means that you knew a fair few 99 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:31,600 Speaker 1: of the people you had to deliver messages too. I mean, 100 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 1: do you think that made things harder or easier for you? 101 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 2: I would say easier because I could I could really 102 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 2: communicate and. 103 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:43,479 Speaker 3: Feel and. 104 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 2: I want to have occasions know that people involved, so 105 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 2: I could probably cut through a number of layers and 106 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 2: actually get to the point where I wanted to get 107 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:59,480 Speaker 2: to I wanted to do, to explain and be there 108 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:04,159 Speaker 2: for them and very much a support and comfort and 109 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:08,599 Speaker 2: through that grief period. So I think in so many 110 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:09,040 Speaker 2: ways it. 111 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 3: Helped me because it's a trust factor too. 112 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:16,039 Speaker 2: They've got to trust what you say, they've got to 113 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 2: believe what you say. Sometimes they don't because they don't 114 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:23,040 Speaker 2: want to. I really don't want to. They don't want 115 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:26,119 Speaker 2: to hear the bad news. This is not real. 116 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:26,919 Speaker 3: Can't be happy. 117 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 2: Why isn't this someone else? Why isn't me? So I 118 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 2: think coming from me knowing a lot of community people 119 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 2: and people that I've grown up with, they accepted what 120 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:40,159 Speaker 2: I said because. 121 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:44,039 Speaker 3: They know Will Mark snot. He's not lying to us. Yeah, 122 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:45,360 Speaker 3: he's telling us the truth. 123 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 1: Mark. If I can ask quite a personal question, what 124 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 1: was the toughest death message that you ever had to 125 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 1: deliver during your thirty eight years on the force? 126 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 2: I'll open up two Andrew, and you don't know this, 127 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 2: and the listeners wouldn't either. I've been in the job 128 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 2: for just shy of thirty eight years. I was a 129 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 2: police officer, but I was a father as well, and 130 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 2: I had three beautiful children, a daughter and two boys. 131 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 2: I lost my youngest boy in twenty sixteen to suicide. 132 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 2: Now we talk about death messages, and we talk about 133 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 2: those horrible situations. I still can't come to terms with 134 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 2: being a cop and going to my son and then 135 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 2: going back home to deliver that message to his mother. 136 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 2: That's the first time someone has lashed out at me 137 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:47,240 Speaker 2: and she beat me on the chest and she just 138 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 2: pushed me away and started mopping the. 139 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 3: Floor, like. 140 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 2: I don't want to know about this. This isn't happening 141 00:07:56,760 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 2: to me. It's just like white noise. So as a 142 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 2: cop that I've done that type of scenario so many times. 143 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 3: This time I'm a dad. 144 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 2: From a father of my husband doing what another police 145 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 2: officer would do. Yeah, I can't explain it. I don't 146 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 2: want people to know how it feels, because you never 147 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 2: get over that. 148 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:31,559 Speaker 1: Never get over that. We'll be back in just a moment. 149 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 1: Welcome back. I'm chatting to Mark Meredith, a detective sergeant 150 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 1: who's set to retire from the police force later this month. Now, Mark, 151 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: just before the break, you told us about your son 152 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 1: who took his own life almost ten years ago. If 153 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 1: you're happy to, can you tell us about him? What 154 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:56,479 Speaker 1: kind of man was he? 155 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 2: He was a wonderful man. He was twenty four years 156 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 2: of age. He was a builder. He had just finished 157 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 2: his clerk of work, so he'd gone out on his 158 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 2: own and had his own company at that age. 159 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 3: So proud of him and just someone that you love 160 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:15,959 Speaker 3: being around and having a good time with and he 161 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:17,199 Speaker 3: lived life to the forest. 162 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:23,320 Speaker 2: But he got trapped in a relationship that he couldn't 163 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 2: work out, and he tried to work out on his 164 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 2: own and it's just become toxic in so many ways and. 165 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 3: Never give any signs. 166 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 2: So we have that, we have this guy that everyone 167 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:43,200 Speaker 2: wants to be and in such a wonderful, such a 168 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 2: wonderful person within our community, and then has a moment 169 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 2: of madness that takes over and can't deal with a situation. 170 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:59,840 Speaker 3: So so frustrating, so sad. 171 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 2: And that's why I've thrown yourself into Fordham Australia, which 172 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 2: is I'm an ambassador actually for Fordham Australia. It deals 173 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 2: with all first responders and that support, those support mechanisms 174 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 2: that are out there for mental health and well be. 175 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 1: If I can just take you back to that moment, 176 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 1: I mean, having to deliver that news to your wife, 177 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 1: your extended family. I can't even imagine how tough that was. 178 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: Were you numb at the time. Did you just feel like, 179 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 1: I've got a job to do here, I'm going to 180 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 1: do it. How are you able to summon the guts 181 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 1: to do that? 182 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 3: You feel selfish, I guess in so many ways because 183 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 3: it comes back to your training and it just clicks in. 184 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 2: But then you've got this other side of being a 185 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 2: dad and bashing yourself up in relation to that. And 186 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 2: then the dad's side of things is bashing the cop 187 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 2: side of things up, saying, well, you're a cop. 188 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:00,439 Speaker 3: Didn't you see these triggers? 189 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 2: Didn't you see these signs you're supposed to be, you know, 190 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 2: an investigator, a trained observer, Like, come on, mate, what 191 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:13,679 Speaker 2: have you missed here? So the dad's side bashes up 192 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 2: the copside. The copside sort of goes in this training 193 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 2: robotic made where he knows he's got a job to 194 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 2: do and and and and. 195 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 4: Tell loved ones his mother, his brother, his sister that 196 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 4: they've just lost a loved one, you know, like bizarre 197 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 4: how it all falls into place. 198 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 3: I guess, Andrew, But I couldn't. I couldn't wish it 199 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:40,959 Speaker 3: on any worst enemy. 200 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,839 Speaker 1: So after nearly four decades in uniform, Mark, I mean, 201 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: what have death messages, all the ones you've had to 202 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:51,680 Speaker 1: deliver during your career, what have they taught you about life, 203 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 1: about people, about grief? 204 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 3: I've learned life short, live life to the fullest get 205 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 3: on life. I've learned that what you think or what 206 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:08,080 Speaker 3: I think is an issue is not an issue. It's 207 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 3: not a big problem. 208 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 2: Really, self reflect a lot of times, don't be stubborn, 209 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:17,839 Speaker 2: sit back and just say is it worth me not 210 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:22,559 Speaker 2: talking to me mother or we loved one, or my 211 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 2: brother or sister for whatever reason. Because we all have 212 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 2: family dynamics, everyone does. They're not big issues. When you 213 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:35,200 Speaker 2: break it all down, it's just not so I guess, 214 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:43,680 Speaker 2: I guess without raving on, enjoy life, be happy. There's 215 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 2: no need to be sad and downtrodden and grief stricken. 216 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 3: Take it from me. I've been there, I've lived it. 217 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:55,760 Speaker 2: The sun will come up, the son will go down, 218 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 2: and the world ows you nothing. 219 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 1: Well, that is a beautiful message that you've been able 220 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: to take away from one of the worst parts of 221 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 1: the job. Imaginable. Mark Meredith, thank you so much for 222 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 1: chattingtonews dot com dot au. 223 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 3: Absolute pleasure. Might thank you. 224 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 1: As I said earlier, I was not expecting the interview 225 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:13,559 Speaker 1: to go that way, but yeah, a big thank you 226 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:15,960 Speaker 1: to Mark for being so open, so vulnerable and so 227 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:19,840 Speaker 1: honest with me and with you as well that organization. 228 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 1: He mentioned is called Fortum Australia FO R T E M. 229 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 1: You can check them out at Fortum Australia dot org 230 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:28,200 Speaker 1: dot au and a reminder that if you need help, 231 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 1: you can call Lifeline on thirteen eleven fourteen. Thank you 232 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 1: so much for listening. I'll chat to you again next week. 233 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:37,839 Speaker 1: Follow us, subscribe to from the newsroom wherever you get 234 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:38,599 Speaker 1: your podcasts.