1 00:00:01,310 --> 00:00:09,830 Speaker 1: I'm Daniel James and you're listening to 7am. David Shoebridge 2 00:00:09,869 --> 00:00:12,730 Speaker 1: has taken over the Greens' leadership with a big ambition 3 00:00:13,410 --> 00:00:14,630 Speaker 1: to replace Labor. 4 00:00:14,850 --> 00:00:17,830 Speaker 2: We are not here to make the Labor Party any better. 5 00:00:18,090 --> 00:00:20,270 Speaker 2: The Greens are here to replace them. 6 00:00:20,810 --> 00:00:23,110 Speaker 1: He's taken over at a time when Australians are becoming 7 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:26,619 Speaker 1: less attached to the major parties and less trusting of 8 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 1: the people who run them. But so far, It's Pauline 9 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:32,770 Speaker 1: Hanson's One Nation that has made the most of that anger, 10 00:00:33,330 --> 00:00:35,989 Speaker 1: while the Greens, after losing seats at the last election, 11 00:00:36,409 --> 00:00:39,370 Speaker 1: have stagnated in the polls. Their challenge now is to 12 00:00:39,409 --> 00:00:42,330 Speaker 1: convince disillusioned voters that the Greens can be more than 13 00:00:42,370 --> 00:00:45,620 Speaker 1: a bit player in the halls of Parliament. Today, Greens 14 00:00:45,659 --> 00:00:48,459 Speaker 1: leader David Shoebridge on his plan to turn the Greens 15 00:00:48,500 --> 00:00:52,860 Speaker 1: into an anti-establishment force, and whether that requires changing the 16 00:00:52,900 --> 00:00:59,070 Speaker 1: party itself. It's Saturday, October 3rd. 17 00:01:05,010 --> 00:01:07,990 Speaker 2: This is an extraordinary moment in politics, and we can 18 00:01:08,030 --> 00:01:10,810 Speaker 2: all feel it. We can feel that politics, as usual, 19 00:01:10,890 --> 00:01:14,050 Speaker 2: is not providing the answers that people are desperately calling 20 00:01:14,090 --> 00:01:18,220 Speaker 2: for now. After four years of a Labor government, things 21 00:01:18,250 --> 00:01:20,780 Speaker 2: have got harder, much, much harder. 22 00:01:21,740 --> 00:01:25,259 Speaker 1: David, congratulations on winning the Greens' leadership. You came out 23 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:28,140 Speaker 1: swinging in your first press conference as leader. It was 24 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:32,770 Speaker 1: a noticeably different vibe to your predecessor, Larissa Waters, which 25 00:01:32,810 --> 00:01:35,970 Speaker 1: perhaps isn't a bad thing since the Greens... Under her leadership, 26 00:01:36,130 --> 00:01:39,250 Speaker 1: many have criticised for failing to capitalise on this push 27 00:01:39,450 --> 00:01:43,250 Speaker 1: away from the major parties that One Nation is actually 28 00:01:43,290 --> 00:01:46,030 Speaker 1: taking advantage of. So what changes under you? 29 00:01:46,730 --> 00:01:50,540 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, thanks, Daniel. It wasn't the week that I'd intended. 30 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 2: You know, none of us wanted to be here. Larissa 31 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 2: had the rock-solid support of the party room. She'd done 32 00:01:57,300 --> 00:02:01,740 Speaker 2: an incredible job holding the team together and developing the platforms, 33 00:02:02,020 --> 00:02:06,690 Speaker 2: working out the core ideas the core campaigning points, and 34 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:11,329 Speaker 2: also developing a kind of collective leadership model where she 35 00:02:11,430 --> 00:02:15,410 Speaker 2: literally gave the team the space to get out and 36 00:02:15,450 --> 00:02:18,450 Speaker 2: work in their portfolios, build the case for change. And 37 00:02:18,470 --> 00:02:22,430 Speaker 2: I especially, you know, I really felt the beneficiary of that, 38 00:02:23,310 --> 00:02:26,669 Speaker 2: the sort of support and encouragement that Larissa gave. And 39 00:02:26,690 --> 00:02:29,050 Speaker 2: I think we saw that with a number of my 40 00:02:29,070 --> 00:02:31,970 Speaker 2: colleagues out there just sort of working and, you know, 41 00:02:32,050 --> 00:02:33,989 Speaker 2: held the vote. you know, if you look at some 42 00:02:34,010 --> 00:02:36,090 Speaker 2: of the kind of overall polls, there was a slight increase, 43 00:02:36,110 --> 00:02:38,250 Speaker 2: but I'm not going to overplay that, like basically held 44 00:02:38,270 --> 00:02:40,850 Speaker 2: the vote while everyone else was, you know, Labor and 45 00:02:40,870 --> 00:02:45,050 Speaker 2: the coalition were all having their vote cannibalized by One Nation. 46 00:02:45,070 --> 00:02:48,070 Speaker 2: So I think that's an incredible achievement and an incredible platform. 47 00:02:48,740 --> 00:02:51,859 Speaker 2: But you asked me what changes. Well, you know, Steph 48 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:55,340 Speaker 2: and I as the new leadership team have had, you know, 49 00:02:55,500 --> 00:02:58,380 Speaker 2: obviously we thought about this when we decided to put 50 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:02,690 Speaker 2: our hands up together to take on the challenge. What 51 00:03:02,710 --> 00:03:06,510 Speaker 2: we're hearing as we're going around the country is people 52 00:03:06,590 --> 00:03:10,450 Speaker 2: want to see a political party, a political movement, their 53 00:03:10,490 --> 00:03:14,550 Speaker 2: representatives just unambiguously going in there and fighting for them. 54 00:03:14,669 --> 00:03:18,389 Speaker 2: They have all seen just this over the last four 55 00:03:18,430 --> 00:03:21,419 Speaker 2: years in Labor, their life's getting worse, things getting meaner 56 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:23,639 Speaker 2: and harder and worried about their kids' future. And of course, 57 00:03:23,660 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 2: you know, same ditto for what was happening under the coalition. 58 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:29,019 Speaker 2: They're watching this happen in real time and they're saying, 59 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:31,889 Speaker 2: hang on, How is no one out there having this 60 00:03:31,930 --> 00:03:35,090 Speaker 2: fight and fighting for us? And, you know, I think 61 00:03:35,130 --> 00:03:38,830 Speaker 2: what I hope people are seeing, you ask about what 62 00:03:38,850 --> 00:03:43,220 Speaker 2: the step change is, it's just getting out and unambiguously 63 00:03:43,250 --> 00:03:46,140 Speaker 2: saying to people, we can see it. Like you, we 64 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 2: can see it. We're talking with you. We know how 65 00:03:48,380 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 2: hard things are. We know all these challenges. And actually, 66 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:53,540 Speaker 2: we're on your side. I think that's what I'm hoping 67 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:57,820 Speaker 2: to bring, this sense of enthusiasm, this sense of urgency. And, 68 00:03:58,280 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 2: you know, we're fighting for you. 69 00:04:00,460 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: You say Larissa did a good job and that the 70 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 1: Greens vote has held up and has held up in 71 00:04:06,260 --> 00:04:09,390 Speaker 1: the polls. But you also said that you're not here 72 00:04:09,470 --> 00:04:12,950 Speaker 1: to make Labor better. You're here to replace Labor. So 73 00:04:13,650 --> 00:04:15,970 Speaker 1: what does that mean? Because under Larissa Walters, the Greens 74 00:04:16,029 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 1: negotiated with Labor and helped them pass significant legislation. And 75 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:22,500 Speaker 1: you voted for those deals as part of that. Can 76 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 1: you point to something the Greens supported under her leadership 77 00:04:25,339 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 1: that you think, looking back, perhaps you shouldn't have or 78 00:04:28,220 --> 00:04:29,060 Speaker 1: you would have done differently? 79 00:04:29,580 --> 00:04:31,940 Speaker 2: Well, I suppose one of the things that I take, 80 00:04:31,980 --> 00:04:34,179 Speaker 2: the lesson I take from now watching Labor in action 81 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:38,090 Speaker 2: four years federally is all of this pretense from Labor 82 00:04:38,150 --> 00:04:40,730 Speaker 2: that what they were doing at any point was going 83 00:04:40,750 --> 00:04:43,930 Speaker 2: to meet the moment. I mean, literally, just ask yourself 84 00:04:44,310 --> 00:04:48,500 Speaker 2: one piece of actual material change that Labor has directed 85 00:04:48,570 --> 00:04:51,370 Speaker 2: to people's lives. There's all this messaging, right? all this 86 00:04:51,430 --> 00:04:53,150 Speaker 2: messaging about, oh, this is how we're dealing with the 87 00:04:53,190 --> 00:04:55,900 Speaker 2: housing crisis, or this is how we're dealing with climate 88 00:04:55,940 --> 00:04:58,580 Speaker 2: and all of this. Well, you know, all this messaging 89 00:04:58,620 --> 00:05:01,799 Speaker 2: about climate, you know, just a couple of days ago, 90 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:04,159 Speaker 2: Labor in New South Wales approved a planet bus in 91 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:06,159 Speaker 2: coal mine. And the first thing that Labor did when 92 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:09,580 Speaker 2: they came federally in this parliamentary term is a massive 93 00:05:09,740 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 2: export gas hub approved. Another, you know. 94 00:05:13,180 --> 00:05:17,020 Speaker 1: But you've backed the government on a number of those reforms, though, 95 00:05:17,060 --> 00:05:22,419 Speaker 1: like housing and... Well... superannuation changes and digital IDs. Are 96 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: you backing them and then, from your perspective, seeing the 97 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:29,620 Speaker 1: government not meeting the ambition of the legislation that you're 98 00:05:29,660 --> 00:05:30,280 Speaker 1: helping them pass? 99 00:05:30,300 --> 00:05:31,900 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of an interesting debate. And, you know, 100 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:34,360 Speaker 2: this is something we're talking with amongst our parliamentary team. 101 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:36,600 Speaker 2: But you go back to that half debate in the 102 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:40,580 Speaker 2: last parliament, for example, and, you know, we held it 103 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:42,779 Speaker 2: up and I remember the work Max did in particular, 104 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 2: held it up and said, this will not fix the 105 00:05:44,250 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 2: housing crisis. Like, you know, You're pretending people can't afford 106 00:05:47,980 --> 00:05:51,220 Speaker 2: the rent, can't afford the mortgage, people are couch surfing, 107 00:05:51,260 --> 00:05:52,850 Speaker 2: others just don't have a home at all. And you 108 00:05:52,870 --> 00:05:55,110 Speaker 2: come up with this non-solution. It's not going to fix 109 00:05:55,130 --> 00:05:57,650 Speaker 2: the housing crisis. And we kept putting our hand up 110 00:05:57,710 --> 00:05:59,970 Speaker 2: and saying, well, we're happy to amend it and make 111 00:06:00,010 --> 00:06:02,410 Speaker 2: it real and put billions and billions of dollars that 112 00:06:02,470 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 2: are needed into building public housing. coming up with a 113 00:06:05,460 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 2: pathway to actually make something real. And Labor just kept 114 00:06:08,220 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 2: coming up and saying, oh, no, you know, you're blocking 115 00:06:10,460 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 2: our amazing reform. You're blocking our amazing reform. You're blocking 116 00:06:13,700 --> 00:06:15,650 Speaker 2: our amazing reform. And in the end, we said, okay, fine, 117 00:06:15,670 --> 00:06:17,750 Speaker 2: you can have it. You know, what, we're the better 118 00:06:17,770 --> 00:06:20,910 Speaker 2: part of three years on from that? Does anybody think 119 00:06:21,190 --> 00:06:23,729 Speaker 2: that has gone anywhere near touching the sides? It's built 120 00:06:23,770 --> 00:06:29,589 Speaker 2: enough houses, you know, through this complex corporate tax incentive structure. 121 00:06:29,610 --> 00:06:32,180 Speaker 2: It's built enough houses to deal with the housing crisis 122 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:32,700 Speaker 2: in Armidale. 123 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:35,610 Speaker 1: Yeah, so- So if an issue like that comes along again, 124 00:06:35,630 --> 00:06:38,450 Speaker 1: a fundamental issue like that, where you just don't think 125 00:06:38,830 --> 00:06:40,870 Speaker 1: it's going to cut it, but the government presses you 126 00:06:40,910 --> 00:06:43,469 Speaker 1: to sort of bow to their will, is that something 127 00:06:43,490 --> 00:06:45,790 Speaker 1: you're going to fight harder for as leader than the 128 00:06:46,130 --> 00:06:48,060 Speaker 1: Greens did in the last parliament over housing? 129 00:06:48,070 --> 00:06:49,700 Speaker 2: Well, this is something we're going to fight with, but 130 00:06:50,220 --> 00:06:54,660 Speaker 2: not on their terms, right? And never accepting this, what 131 00:06:54,700 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 2: people can now see as sort of vacuous, non-solution, never pretending. 132 00:07:00,870 --> 00:07:03,630 Speaker 2: that it's actually a solution. And from the moment they 133 00:07:03,650 --> 00:07:08,609 Speaker 2: bring their next faux reform in, not getting caught in 134 00:07:08,690 --> 00:07:11,650 Speaker 2: some false dynamic that this is win or loss for 135 00:07:11,670 --> 00:07:15,270 Speaker 2: whatever critical issue, because it turns out after four years 136 00:07:15,310 --> 00:07:18,650 Speaker 2: of the Albanese government, nothing they're willing to bring forward 137 00:07:19,050 --> 00:07:21,550 Speaker 2: is actually going to address the kind of material challenges. 138 00:07:22,110 --> 00:07:25,470 Speaker 2: Their interest is in chasing off to the right. For 139 00:07:25,510 --> 00:07:28,250 Speaker 2: so long, that was chasing the coalition, and now they're 140 00:07:28,270 --> 00:07:31,230 Speaker 2: chasing One Nation. That's where they want to play. They 141 00:07:31,330 --> 00:07:35,450 Speaker 2: share corporate donors. They share values. And I think we 142 00:07:35,490 --> 00:07:38,670 Speaker 2: need to have this hard and honest conversation with the 143 00:07:38,690 --> 00:07:42,790 Speaker 2: Australian public that actually they're not a good faith player. 144 00:07:43,350 --> 00:07:46,130 Speaker 2: If we really want the change that we need to 145 00:07:46,170 --> 00:07:49,460 Speaker 2: make this place fairer so that people aren't working 60 146 00:07:49,460 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 2: hours a week and can't afford the rent, so that 147 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 2: nurses aren't paying more tax than a quarter of big 148 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:59,020 Speaker 2: corporations in this country, The task is not finding a 149 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:01,860 Speaker 2: way of working nicely with Labor. The task is replacing. 150 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:05,900 Speaker 1: So we're seeing a lot of voters flirting with One Nation, 151 00:08:05,940 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 1: you know, Labor voters, coalition voters. How are you going 152 00:08:08,780 --> 00:08:13,230 Speaker 1: to talk to those disenfranchised Australians in the suburbs, especially 153 00:08:13,350 --> 00:08:16,670 Speaker 1: as a lawyer from the eastern suburbs of Sydney where, 154 00:08:16,830 --> 00:08:20,210 Speaker 1: you know, you present differently to One Nation, as you should, 155 00:08:20,770 --> 00:08:22,870 Speaker 1: but how are you going to cut through and speak 156 00:08:22,930 --> 00:08:25,350 Speaker 1: to people in the suburbs on their level about the 157 00:08:25,410 --> 00:08:26,430 Speaker 1: issues that impact them? 158 00:08:26,850 --> 00:08:28,610 Speaker 2: Well, first of all, by doing it, right? You know, 159 00:08:29,290 --> 00:08:32,270 Speaker 2: my team sometimes gets so frustrated with me that my 160 00:08:32,309 --> 00:08:34,630 Speaker 2: favourite part of politics isn't going into parliament or doing 161 00:08:34,650 --> 00:08:36,230 Speaker 2: the media. My favourite part of politics is just out 162 00:08:36,270 --> 00:08:39,990 Speaker 2: talking with people, getting out, not just our members, but 163 00:08:40,010 --> 00:08:42,829 Speaker 2: getting out into community groups out there and actually talking 164 00:08:42,870 --> 00:08:44,550 Speaker 2: with people. And I'll tell you what I've been hearing. 165 00:08:44,570 --> 00:08:48,050 Speaker 2: It doesn't matter where I go across the country. I've 166 00:08:48,090 --> 00:08:51,709 Speaker 2: been hearing about this seething anger with politics. And, you know, 167 00:08:51,890 --> 00:08:54,190 Speaker 2: part of a core part of that is they keep hearing, 168 00:08:54,230 --> 00:08:57,059 Speaker 2: you know, a prime minister or premier saying, or a 169 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:01,470 Speaker 2: minister platforming themselves and saying, I'm doing this and giving 170 00:09:01,510 --> 00:09:03,530 Speaker 2: all these false promises that it's going to, you know, 171 00:09:03,590 --> 00:09:08,150 Speaker 2: increase wages or make housing affordable or, you know, whatever 172 00:09:08,290 --> 00:09:12,450 Speaker 2: false promise they have. And none of it's true. None 173 00:09:12,490 --> 00:09:15,370 Speaker 2: of it was ever intended to be true. Some tiny 174 00:09:15,470 --> 00:09:19,410 Speaker 2: marginal change that they wrap all this nonsense messaging around 175 00:09:19,470 --> 00:09:21,330 Speaker 2: and then try and make people believe in it. And 176 00:09:21,650 --> 00:09:24,569 Speaker 2: is it any wonder? People are so angry with that. 177 00:09:24,650 --> 00:09:29,179 Speaker 2: And I think One Nation has understood the anger, but 178 00:09:29,260 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 2: One Nation has then directed people on exactly the wrong target, 179 00:09:33,540 --> 00:09:35,949 Speaker 2: and that's because One Nation is paid by the 1% 180 00:09:35,950 --> 00:09:38,429 Speaker 2: and the corporates to do that. We want to say 181 00:09:38,450 --> 00:09:41,650 Speaker 2: to people, and we're out there loudly and clearly saying 182 00:09:41,690 --> 00:09:44,470 Speaker 2: it to them, the reason you're doing it tough isn't 183 00:09:44,510 --> 00:09:47,210 Speaker 2: because of your neighbor from the Philippines who's working as 184 00:09:47,250 --> 00:09:51,310 Speaker 2: an emergency nurse in the local hospital. The reason is 185 00:09:51,370 --> 00:09:54,859 Speaker 2: because there's this 1% making bank. literally taking money out 186 00:09:54,900 --> 00:09:57,650 Speaker 2: of your pocket and putting it into corporate profits. That's 187 00:09:57,670 --> 00:09:59,970 Speaker 2: how they're affording the luxury yachts. That's how they're buying 188 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:02,219 Speaker 2: the politicians. And they've got a plan to make it 189 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:06,320 Speaker 2: even worse by rolling out their vampire data centres and 190 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 2: sucking down our power and energy and data and taking 191 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 2: literally control of our government in the meantime. Nobody has 192 00:10:13,179 --> 00:10:14,070 Speaker 2: challenged that narrative. 193 00:10:16,830 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 1: Coming up. How do the Greens change to broaden their appeal? So, Senator, 194 00:10:28,820 --> 00:10:32,700 Speaker 1: you've been out talking to people. You've identified that people 195 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 1: are very angry with the political class. But what is 196 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: the number one issue facing Australians right now? And how 197 00:10:39,660 --> 00:10:41,940 Speaker 1: do you and the Greens plan to address that? 198 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, the one issue is actually a sort 199 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:49,069 Speaker 2: of combination, isn't it? Like, people's lives being materially harder 200 00:10:49,170 --> 00:10:52,350 Speaker 2: because whether it's they're having money taken out of their 201 00:10:52,390 --> 00:10:55,650 Speaker 2: pockets through their mortgage bills or their rental or their 202 00:10:55,690 --> 00:10:58,530 Speaker 2: wages are flat lines and the costs just keep going up, 203 00:10:59,110 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 2: people are feeling that pinch absolutely across the board. And 204 00:11:03,260 --> 00:11:05,840 Speaker 2: there's this sense of, hang on, how are that lot 205 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 2: over there affording all of that and having control and 206 00:11:09,620 --> 00:11:12,140 Speaker 2: their luxury yachts and et cetera? How is that happening? Well, 207 00:11:12,380 --> 00:11:15,290 Speaker 2: this is my experience and my kids' experience. And as 208 00:11:15,330 --> 00:11:19,449 Speaker 2: that's happening, People have these added package of anxieties in 209 00:11:19,490 --> 00:11:23,270 Speaker 2: their life. People aren't listening to One Nation when it 210 00:11:23,290 --> 00:11:25,679 Speaker 2: comes to climate. They're smarter than that. They can see 211 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:28,959 Speaker 2: the science. They've had this record hot September. They remember 212 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 2: the fires that we had a few years ago. They're 213 00:11:31,660 --> 00:11:33,700 Speaker 2: anxious about what this mother of all El Nino is 214 00:11:33,740 --> 00:11:37,150 Speaker 2: going to do this summer and the flooding and just 215 00:11:37,190 --> 00:11:39,890 Speaker 2: the basic insecurity. And people are thinking about their kids. 216 00:11:40,210 --> 00:11:42,290 Speaker 2: How will the planet be safe for their kids? These 217 00:11:42,350 --> 00:11:46,650 Speaker 2: anxieties are connected together because it's the same 1%. that's 218 00:11:46,890 --> 00:11:50,840 Speaker 2: profiting from the fossil fuels, that's also trying to dumb 219 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:54,140 Speaker 2: down our wages and privatize everything. These things are actually 220 00:11:54,220 --> 00:11:57,960 Speaker 2: really connected. And when you add to that, watching our 221 00:11:58,020 --> 00:12:01,699 Speaker 2: government go and join with and play footsies with Donald 222 00:12:01,740 --> 00:12:04,980 Speaker 2: Trump while he's throwing the world into chaos and be, 223 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:07,740 Speaker 2: you know, actually inviting that chaos to our own country, 224 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:13,219 Speaker 2: it's kind of like this sort of multi-leveled anxiety of insecurity, 225 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 2: economic insecurity, environmental insecurity, physical insecurity, they're all kind of 226 00:12:18,780 --> 00:12:22,300 Speaker 2: coming together. And what the good news is that 99% 227 00:12:22,300 --> 00:12:25,110 Speaker 2: of us have a common interest in meeting that together 228 00:12:25,150 --> 00:12:26,090 Speaker 2: as a single challenge. 229 00:12:26,370 --> 00:12:29,870 Speaker 1: We saw another interest rate rise this week. You argued 230 00:12:29,950 --> 00:12:33,309 Speaker 1: that interest rate rises are punishing people who didn't cause inflation, 231 00:12:33,890 --> 00:12:36,900 Speaker 1: but inflation still needs to be brought down. So if 232 00:12:36,940 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 1: you don't want the Reserve Bank doing so much of 233 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:42,980 Speaker 1: the work through raising interest rates, what would you actually 234 00:12:43,020 --> 00:12:43,479 Speaker 1: do instead? 235 00:12:44,100 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, we'd use fiscal levers that used to 236 00:12:46,940 --> 00:12:49,750 Speaker 2: be a very traditional way of taking the heat out 237 00:12:49,770 --> 00:12:52,650 Speaker 2: of the economy. But doing that means you have to 238 00:12:52,690 --> 00:12:55,270 Speaker 2: take on vested interests, right? And that's why Labor hasn't 239 00:12:55,309 --> 00:12:57,650 Speaker 2: done it. That's why the coalition hasn't done it. You 240 00:12:57,670 --> 00:12:59,450 Speaker 2: want to know one of the reasons? Well, there's two 241 00:12:59,590 --> 00:13:01,690 Speaker 2: primary reasons why there's so much heat in the economy 242 00:13:01,710 --> 00:13:05,150 Speaker 2: at the moment. The first is this reckless bloody war 243 00:13:05,190 --> 00:13:08,910 Speaker 2: that Donald Trump and Benjamin Netanyahu have started against Iran 244 00:13:08,929 --> 00:13:11,300 Speaker 2: and their failed war against the Houthis. You know, they 245 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:13,630 Speaker 2: haven't been able to defeat the Houthis. And that has 246 00:13:13,670 --> 00:13:17,130 Speaker 2: meant that energy prices have spiked. And, you know, Australians 247 00:13:17,150 --> 00:13:20,429 Speaker 2: should be rightfully angry that the Prime Minister, the Coalition 248 00:13:20,450 --> 00:13:22,930 Speaker 2: and One Nation have all supported that war. And the 249 00:13:22,990 --> 00:13:26,050 Speaker 2: second way, one of the other second primary reasons we're 250 00:13:26,070 --> 00:13:29,270 Speaker 2: seeing inflation driving is because all of this money being 251 00:13:29,370 --> 00:13:32,430 Speaker 2: pumped into the economy through corporate profits. It just turns 252 00:13:32,500 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 2: out that that's going to a tiny handful of people. 253 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:37,719 Speaker 2: If you really wanted to take the heat out of 254 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 2: the economy and, you know, we would say to Labor, 255 00:13:40,820 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 2: we'll join with you on this. Increase the tax on 256 00:13:43,900 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 2: corporate profits. Record corporate profits at the moment. Take the 257 00:13:47,340 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 2: heat out of the economy by tackling the 1%. Tax wealth, 258 00:13:50,740 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 2: not work. And give mortgage holders and homeowners some bloody relief. 259 00:13:57,380 --> 00:14:01,650 Speaker 1: Finally, Senator, you said you want to replace Labor. But traditionally, 260 00:14:01,670 --> 00:14:04,310 Speaker 1: a lot of voters have seen the Greens more as 261 00:14:04,330 --> 00:14:06,230 Speaker 1: the party you want in the Senate to keep the 262 00:14:06,270 --> 00:14:10,030 Speaker 1: government accountable. It's going to take a radical transformation for 263 00:14:10,050 --> 00:14:12,810 Speaker 1: the Australian public to see the Greens as an alternative 264 00:14:12,910 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 1: party of office. So does that mean radical changes for 265 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 1: the party itself? 266 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it means making the party a mass membership party. 267 00:14:23,700 --> 00:14:27,860 Speaker 2: It means getting more and more people to join, connecting 268 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:31,910 Speaker 2: our party with community groups and organisations and giving them 269 00:14:32,030 --> 00:14:34,869 Speaker 2: hope and a political home and a political direction and 270 00:14:35,910 --> 00:14:38,540 Speaker 2: And it means building this movement across the country. I mean, 271 00:14:38,780 --> 00:14:41,500 Speaker 2: one of the things I'm really excited about is in 272 00:14:41,540 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 2: the last couple of days, we've had this surge of 273 00:14:44,460 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 2: members joining the party from across the country, this real 274 00:14:47,340 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 2: sense of enthusiasm. And yes, we can do this. And, 275 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 2: you know, one of the other discussions we've been having 276 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 2: is about, you know, we selected the leadership team this 277 00:14:56,350 --> 00:14:58,250 Speaker 2: time under the rules that have been established. It was 278 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:00,710 Speaker 2: a decision of the party room. And I'm very grateful 279 00:15:00,750 --> 00:15:03,690 Speaker 2: for my colleagues supporting Steph and I in that decision. 280 00:15:04,430 --> 00:15:06,500 Speaker 2: But Steph and I in the party room have committed 281 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 2: to working with the party so that the next leadership selection, 282 00:15:10,620 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 2: every single member will have a direct say in it. 283 00:15:13,180 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 2: Another reason to join the party and become a part 284 00:15:15,900 --> 00:15:21,750 Speaker 2: of the movement. So I'm a believer that most political change, 285 00:15:22,260 --> 00:15:26,190 Speaker 2: most political change is forced on parliaments. Unwilling parliaments are 286 00:15:26,370 --> 00:15:29,170 Speaker 2: made to change and stare down vested interests. And the 287 00:15:29,230 --> 00:15:32,490 Speaker 2: way you do that is you walk into parliament with 288 00:15:32,550 --> 00:15:35,670 Speaker 2: millions of people behind you. And that's the challenge for 289 00:15:35,710 --> 00:15:36,090 Speaker 2: the Greens. 290 00:15:38,150 --> 00:15:40,730 Speaker 1: Senator, it's been a massive week for you. Thanks for 291 00:15:40,750 --> 00:15:42,690 Speaker 1: joining us on 7am. Hope to speak to you in 292 00:15:42,710 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: the future. Cheers, Dan. Good speaking. 7am is a daily 293 00:15:59,030 --> 00:16:03,500 Speaker 1: show from Solstice Media. is made by Atticus Bastow, Chris Dengate, 294 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 1: Crystal Keller, Renee Yorklin, Ruby Jones, Travis Evans, Yeo Chung, 295 00:16:10,020 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 1: Zoltan Fecho Jr. and me, Daniel James. Our theme music 296 00:16:14,780 --> 00:16:17,730 Speaker 1: is by Ned Beckley and Josh Hogan of Envelope Audio. 297 00:16:18,970 --> 00:16:20,930 Speaker 1: And if you would like to support 7am and bringing 298 00:16:20,970 --> 00:16:25,190 Speaker 1: you news independently without fear or favour, please follow the 299 00:16:25,230 --> 00:16:28,270 Speaker 1: show on your chosen podcast platform and on our social 300 00:16:28,310 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 1: media accounts on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube and LinkedIn. Thanks for 301 00:16:34,020 --> 00:16:36,900 Speaker 1: listening to 7am this week. Have a great weekend.