WEBVTT - What’s your true hourly wage? 0:00:01.639 --> 0:00:04.360 Welcome to How Today Afford That, the podcast that peaks 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:07.560 into the financial lives of everyday Australians. I'm Michael Thompson. 0:00:07.640 --> 0:00:09.200 I'm an author and the co host of the business 0:00:09.240 --> 0:00:11.520 news podcast Fear and Greed and There's Always I'm with 0:00:11.600 --> 0:00:15.200 Canna Campbell, financial planner and founder of Sugar Mummer TV, 0:00:15.800 --> 0:00:21.280 the financial literacy platform covering YouTube, podcasts, books, Instagram threads, 0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:25.120 TikTok and more. Hello, Canna, good morning. Can a quick 0:00:25.120 --> 0:00:28.400 little shout out? Not long now until our book comes out, 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:30.000 Twelve Months of Financial Freedom. 0:00:30.160 --> 0:00:33.560 If you haven't pre ordered your copy, now is the time. 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:35.040 And it does what it says on the cover. It 0:00:35.120 --> 0:00:37.400 is twelve Months to Financial Freedom. It is month by 0:00:37.479 --> 0:00:39.960 month helping you take control of your money. 0:00:40.040 --> 0:00:42.920 Right. We couldn't make it any easier for you to 0:00:42.960 --> 0:00:45.519 fix your finances and get you back on track and 0:00:45.560 --> 0:00:48.519 actually enjoying and being proud of the progress, because this 0:00:48.600 --> 0:00:51.400 is really about creating a shift and a breakthrough. Yeah. 0:00:51.440 --> 0:00:54.760 Absolutely so, Twelve Months to Financial Freedom comes out in September, 0:00:54.800 --> 0:01:00.240 but pre orders are available now Today's episode and this 0:01:00.640 --> 0:01:03.720 really really interesting and this has the potential to almost 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:08.000 be life changing. What we're talking about today. Most people 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:12.280 I think they know well, they think they know what 0:01:12.319 --> 0:01:16.320 they earn, whether it's an annual salary or an hourly 0:01:16.440 --> 0:01:19.679 rate to take home pay, but it's not the full 0:01:19.720 --> 0:01:23.920 picture necessarily. And I was reading an article recently about 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:27.280 the Fire movement. It was actually an article about Your 0:01:27.280 --> 0:01:31.560 Money or Your Life, which is the book that was 0:01:31.600 --> 0:01:35.440 the genesis of the Fire movement back in the nineties. 0:01:36.280 --> 0:01:39.360 And in the article, it was talking about the true 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:44.160 hourly wage, right, this idea that we actually are all 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:49.240 working for a whole lot less than we think. And 0:01:49.320 --> 0:01:52.600 once you understand that, and once you can calculate what 0:01:52.720 --> 0:01:56.800 you are actually working for, then it changes the way 0:01:56.840 --> 0:01:59.639 that you think about money. Money takes on a different 0:01:59.720 --> 0:02:02.640 value you and your time takes on a different value 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:09.200 as well. So today the true hourly wage, best place 0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:12.560 to start is probably what is it? What is the 0:02:12.600 --> 0:02:13.720 true hourly wage? 0:02:14.480 --> 0:02:17.079 So this is where you sort of take your your 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:19.920 gross salary, like one hundred thousand dollars a year, and 0:02:19.960 --> 0:02:23.280 then you go intoduct tax, and then you deduct all 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:26.519 the work related expenses, like you know, getting to work, 0:02:27.200 --> 0:02:31.280 like bus fare or parking, fuel, public transport, if you 0:02:31.280 --> 0:02:33.240 have to wear like a special uniform, you know, the 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:36.000 professional clothing involved, and that then you know, gives you 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:38.680 obviously a net figure. And then you can look at 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:42.680 the level of amount of hours that you're doing and 0:02:42.720 --> 0:02:46.240 that then gives you an hourly rate out of the interest. 0:02:46.280 --> 0:02:47.280 Have you ever done this before? 0:02:47.520 --> 0:02:52.440 No? No, I haven't. It is it is worthwhile. I've 0:02:52.440 --> 0:02:55.000 been a bit scared to do it. It's actually, yeah, 0:02:55.080 --> 0:02:57.360 because all of a sudden you think that you know 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:00.359 the and a lot of these things, like when you're 0:03:00.360 --> 0:03:04.040 listing all of those expenses, they're not tax deductible a 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:07.200 lot of those things like guion fees. But I mean 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:09.080 like you're not going to be able to deduct the 0:03:09.080 --> 0:03:11.440 cost of the petrol that it takes to get to 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:13.600 work and things like that for work. 0:03:13.639 --> 0:03:16.240 But no, there's a lot of things. It costs money 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:18.440 to tone up to work, particularly when you think about things. 0:03:18.240 --> 0:03:21.000 Like childcare as well. Yeah, yeah, and your lunch and 0:03:21.000 --> 0:03:22.840 you're buying it at work. Stuff that's not. 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:25.119 It works, you know if you have to wear a suit, yeah, 0:03:25.360 --> 0:03:26.440 to work? That expensive. 0:03:26.560 --> 0:03:30.920 All of these things. What about time though? Right, so 0:03:30.919 --> 0:03:34.840 that the focus obviously all of those things, they were 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:38.680 all expenses. The actual financial expenses. But what about the 0:03:38.720 --> 0:03:40.680 time that you spend getting ready, the time that you 0:03:40.760 --> 0:03:44.240 spend commuting, all the time that you spend working when 0:03:44.240 --> 0:03:45.680 you're not supposed to be working. 0:03:46.240 --> 0:03:48.920 Yes, so that definitely factors in. So obviously, you know, 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:51.720 the travel time, even like getting dressed and ready in 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:55.360 the morning, you know, making yourself representable, it's the big one. 0:03:55.880 --> 0:04:00.240 Checking emails after work or you know, over the weekending 0:04:00.320 --> 0:04:02.480 up on project. All the extra hours that we have 0:04:02.600 --> 0:04:04.520 to do, you know, whether we've got to you know, 0:04:04.640 --> 0:04:06.960 we've got to travel, you know, say for a conference, 0:04:07.360 --> 0:04:09.240 so often people have to leave on a Sunday to 0:04:09.280 --> 0:04:11.200 make sure that they land at that destination and time. 0:04:11.240 --> 0:04:14.560 It really does it into our own personal time. All 0:04:14.600 --> 0:04:16.560 those hours really do add up, and we end up 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:18.479 doing a lot more hours than say, like the forty 0:04:18.480 --> 0:04:21.080 hour week or the fifty whatever we've signed in our contract. 0:04:21.240 --> 0:04:23.039 Okay, so that's how you get the two sides of 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:28.320 this equation, right. You are taking your salary yep, take 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:31.160 off tax, and then take off all of those other 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:33.160 financial expenses. 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:35.599 So the work related expenses and the time related expenses. 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:39.719 But then with the time, right, so say you work 0:04:39.720 --> 0:04:43.520 a forty hour week, you then add on, say, say 0:04:43.560 --> 0:04:45.520 it takes you an hour to get to and from 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:48.400 work every day, so that's another ten hours. And then 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:51.760 you add on any time preparing for work or doing 0:04:51.800 --> 0:04:54.040 extra work at home or on the weekend. You add that, 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:56.479 and all of a sudden that you have a sixty 0:04:56.520 --> 0:04:57.080 hour week. 0:04:57.160 --> 0:05:00.280 Yes, exactly. So the I guess the comment not dat 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:03.839 a figure is getting bigger. So your hourly rate in 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:08.400 the mathematical formula gets a lot smaller and quite depressing. 0:05:08.120 --> 0:05:11.680 How much lower? Like this is significantly lower. 0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:13.760 Right, So it's going to vary from situation to situation. 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:16.760 And I've actually done this twice in my life. I 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:18.600 did this a long time ago, actually when I was 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:21.040 writing Mindful Money in my book, because I talk about 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:24.200 the importance of having this awareness. I never went to 0:05:24.440 --> 0:05:28.480 that detail. I was more about looking at the negross 0:05:28.520 --> 0:05:31.839 salary minus your tax, and then obviously looking at you know, 0:05:31.920 --> 0:05:34.160 the hours. I didn't go into the I didn't even 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:36.279 want to go into the detail of all the additional 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:37.560 things out and how they add up, because it can 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:41.040 get quite depressing. And then I did it actually ironically 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:44.719 about six weeks ago, and it was very sobering. 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:48.800 Is that how people usually react like, is it an 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:50.520 eye opener? It is. 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:54.200 It can be quite depressing as well, But if you 0:05:54.680 --> 0:05:57.839 are willing to sit through the uncomfortableness, I think it's 0:05:57.960 --> 0:06:00.599 very important because it allows you to see what you 0:06:00.640 --> 0:06:04.200 know at stop and question your value system and where 0:06:04.200 --> 0:06:08.279 you're actually spending your time. And I mean, this is 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:09.720 going to be I'm probably going to rub people the 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:13.640 wrong way, but you know, I think with this, I 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:15.839 think it's great. I think it's very it's great to 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:18.719 have the awareness because very natural for our brains to 0:06:18.800 --> 0:06:20.600 be driven by our egos and go, well, I own 0:06:20.680 --> 0:06:22.880 like one hundred and fifty thousand dollars a year. You know, 0:06:22.960 --> 0:06:25.920 I'm making great money. But when you actually do this, 0:06:26.279 --> 0:06:28.440 it forces you to look at the real numbers of 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:31.600 your situation and actually how you're spending your time and 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:34.680 the cost of showing up to work. And you know, 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:36.360 this is why I have a bit of an issue 0:06:36.400 --> 0:06:39.280 with this, because you could go down a bit of 0:06:39.320 --> 0:06:42.000 a rabbit warren and add so many things to you, 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:44.279 you know, to your hours. At the end of the day, 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:46.240 we do need to get dressed up and go to work, 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:48.359 you know, yes, it is part of our you know, 0:06:48.760 --> 0:06:50.800 to have a competitive advantage to be able to add 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:52.960 value and be a great team player and you know, 0:06:53.040 --> 0:06:54.640 be a part of a great business or even run 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:57.520 a great business. You can't just do the bare minimum 0:06:57.560 --> 0:06:59.760 of hours. You know, We've all got to put in 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:03.840 strocim initiative, put in some effort and energy and passion 0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:05.640 into this if we want to get ahead. And that's 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:07.560 supposed to worry whether this is this is a bit 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:10.240 I'm going to get trouble for this, a bit a bit. 0:07:10.160 --> 0:07:11.559 Wokish, bit woke. 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:15.440 Yeah, okay, I'm like probably going to get attacked for that. 0:07:15.520 --> 0:07:17.080 But I just I just feel like there's a bit 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:20.120 of a cop out. Like I think it's encouraging. If 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:21.920 you go too deep with this, it can encourage you 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:25.040 to be a bit like my time's worth more like 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:27.800 I don't have I don't need to do this. I'm 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:30.760 going to luwer myself in society to check my emails 0:07:30.800 --> 0:07:33.600 and look, don't get me wrong, we all need boundaries professionally. 0:07:33.920 --> 0:07:37.440 Yeah, but also like, but I'm also assuming though that 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:40.640 it's someone else's problem to fix right this to me, 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:43.240 this is not about Okay, they're not paying me enough 0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:45.800 to justify the time that I'm putting into it. Your 0:07:45.840 --> 0:07:48.400 job is your job. Your salary is your salary. Yeah right. 0:07:48.640 --> 0:07:50.400 The things that you can change is the way then 0:07:50.440 --> 0:07:54.920 it approaches, you approach your spending and the mentality that 0:07:54.960 --> 0:07:56.920 you take into everything around it. 0:07:57.720 --> 0:07:59.320 And that's that's where I get worried that people get 0:07:59.360 --> 0:08:01.480 stuck in that and they can't question their career path, 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:04.120 their question what they're entitled to the salary. They can 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:05.400 get this like a bit of entitlement. 0:08:05.440 --> 0:08:05.840 They worried. 0:08:05.880 --> 0:08:08.640 It comes from this. But this is the flip side 0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:11.000 of it. Sorry about about Was I cutting you on? 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:12.920 No? No, But I want to do though before we 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:15.240 get onto the flip side, because we need to dig 0:08:15.280 --> 0:08:16.920 into this a bit further. But I just want to 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:20.360 finish the calculation that we did before, because we had 0:08:20.360 --> 0:08:24.240 on one side, Yes, we had added up the you've 0:08:24.240 --> 0:08:27.360 got your salary and then you take all of the 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:30.200 other bits and pieces off that and so let's use 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:32.880 it add one hundred thousand dollars. Let's say it's one 0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:34.839 hundred and twenty thousand dollars only because I've just done 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:37.280 some calculations and it's going to work better if I 0:08:37.320 --> 0:08:39.959 do that one hundred and twenty thousand dollars, but then 0:08:40.000 --> 0:08:42.360 you take off all of the other bunch of different things. 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:45.640 Let's say you come down to one hundred thousand dollars, right, Okay, 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:49.200 that's how much you're taking home tax wise. That doesn't work, 0:08:49.240 --> 0:08:52.640 but just turn a blink. One hundred thousand dollars. Okay, 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:57.439 you work a forty hour week, So you divide you 0:08:57.440 --> 0:09:00.200 one hundred thousand dollars by fifty two weeks and then 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:02.880 divide that by forty to get your hourly wage on 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:05.520 paper would be forty eight. But if you're adding the 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:07.520 extra time that you spend, say you're doing an extra 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:09.360 twenty hours a week for all the prep that you're 0:09:09.400 --> 0:09:11.160 doing to get ready for work, and the commuting to 0:09:11.240 --> 0:09:13.120 and from work, and the extra shift that you do 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:15.600 that is unpaid because you're working on a project from home. 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:17.840 All that things something that you're working a sixty hour week. 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:21.560 Instead of the forty eight dollars per hour that you 0:09:21.600 --> 0:09:24.000 were getting when it was a forty hour week. At 0:09:24.000 --> 0:09:27.120 a sixty hour week, it's actually thirty two dollars. And 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:30.480 that's how you then calculate what this true hour wage is. 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:33.640 What we're going to do now is take a very 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:38.320 quick break and I just wanted to you just just unleash, yeah, 0:09:38.320 --> 0:09:40.480 because I can feel like every time you're about to 0:09:40.520 --> 0:09:42.400 say something, I've cut you off, and. 0:09:42.320 --> 0:09:46.240 I feel like I've said everything I need to say 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:49.120 about my concerns of this. But then we need to 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:50.360 seek about the positive signe of this. 0:09:50.640 --> 0:09:52.400 Oh, I was hoping thatd be a little bit more rage. 0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:56.319 Do you go like full sith? Just let the anger 0:09:56.920 --> 0:09:59.679 flow through you? Right? Quick break back in a moment, 0:10:00.160 --> 0:10:10.079 Canna unleashes. Can we are talking about the true hourly wage, 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:12.600 and we've gone through how to calculate what your true 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:18.080 hourly wages. We got little taste of your anger towards 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:22.720 the potential sense of entitlement that it can create. Would 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:25.280 you like to just recap anything that makes you angry? 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:27.960 Look, I think it's great to have the awareness of 0:10:28.000 --> 0:10:30.240 how much you are putting into your work, but I 0:10:30.240 --> 0:10:33.520 think it's a slippery slope that can actually send land 0:10:33.920 --> 0:10:39.880 somewhere quite toxic for your mental health and not necessarily 0:10:39.920 --> 0:10:44.360 there to help you if used incorrectly. So the flip 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:45.120 side of that. 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:47.079 Is using it correctly, using it. 0:10:47.000 --> 0:10:49.120 Correctly to maybe get a greater understanding as to how 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:51.400 you're using your time, and how you can maybe run 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:54.040 your life a little more efficiently so that you're not 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:57.760 doing twenty extra hours on top of your forty hour week, 0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:00.760 you know, clearing emails and working from home home and 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:02.880 checking in over the weekend, and you know, doing a 0:11:02.880 --> 0:11:05.480 whole pile of prep and travel like. You know, having 0:11:05.520 --> 0:11:08.000 that awareness can maybe help you put some healthy boundaries 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:10.319 in place, or can help you maybe look at your 0:11:10.320 --> 0:11:13.000 career path and maybe make some changes, whether it be 0:11:13.040 --> 0:11:16.400 investing in additional education and training to you know, to 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:20.080 change jobs, or to renegotiate your contract and so forth. 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:23.640 At its most simple level, does it help to reframe 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:25.800 the way that you think about just what you are 0:11:25.840 --> 0:11:29.520 spending on. Surely you're going to be less frivolous with 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:33.760 your money if you actually that's three hours of my 0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:34.920 true hourly wage. 0:11:35.240 --> 0:11:37.520 So this is the funny thing. So I did this 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:41.280 recently and I felt quite it was very grounding. It's 0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:43.120 very humbling because you sort of go, oh, my goodness, 0:11:43.160 --> 0:11:46.480 look how much this gets stripped back to It's like is. 0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:47.280 It even worth it? 0:11:47.320 --> 0:11:50.160 So even I got into that kind of woe mentality, 0:11:50.640 --> 0:11:53.280 which is very unlike me because I'm I like to 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:54.560 think of my someone who's got a lot of get 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:56.800 up and go and I'm really passionate about my work 0:11:57.120 --> 0:12:01.120 and trying to live life. But I did this with 0:12:01.160 --> 0:12:05.600 my kids so recently. My kids, not my kids, My 0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:07.960 two girls are pretty wild. They do not listen to 0:12:08.080 --> 0:12:12.120 anything I say. And after asking them about thirty thousand 0:12:12.120 --> 0:12:15.560 times please don't play in the curtains, of course they 0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:17.800 go and play in the curtains and they rip down 0:12:17.880 --> 0:12:22.080 the whole entire rod that's like bolted into the ceiling. 0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:24.679 And it's very high ceiling, so it's not something I 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:26.320 can just get on off a step ladder and fix 0:12:26.360 --> 0:12:27.839 myself with the drill. I've got to get a handy 0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:30.880 man out and we've they've snapped the rod and like 0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:32.960 like it's a long They've done a lot of damage basically. 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:36.640 But I try to explain to them, like, you know, 0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:39.440 do you know how many hours it's going to I 0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:42.280 have to work to pay for someone to now come 0:12:42.320 --> 0:12:45.040 in and fix this and that, To try and put 0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:49.160 a bit of perspective into you know, where the time 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:51.000 is and what it actually adds up to and what 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:54.160 it when you don't use money wisely and carefully the 0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:58.440 damage it does, and you know, talking to my kids 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:00.000 about that, and I was able to give them like 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:02.280 a number of hours, you know, and now I'm like, 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:04.600 that's time that I could be spending with you, playing 0:13:04.600 --> 0:13:05.959 with you, but now I've got to go and find 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:09.800 the money to get this fixed. That awareness was really helpful. 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:12.160 And like before, you're on a six year old for context, 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:14.720 so of course, like you could only penetrate so deeply 0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:17.640 in their brain. But also with my son, you know, 0:13:17.720 --> 0:13:20.480 he wants a new bike, and you know he's putting 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:22.240 a lot of pressure on me. I'm like, and we 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:25.559 only recently, he only recently bought a bike. So I 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:27.520 try and explain to him again that context of had 0:13:27.600 --> 0:13:29.560 you know, like how long does it take you to 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:31.960 save that up with your hours? You know, bring it 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:35.319 back to the hour, so you understand the important taking 0:13:35.360 --> 0:13:38.160 care of your items, the amount of work that's involved, 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:40.360 how long it takes to save up. It's not like 0:13:40.400 --> 0:13:44.200 you can just pull money out of a hat. Just 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:48.160 to have that grounding and that awareness as to you know, 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:51.319 what you really want as well, because quite often when 0:13:51.320 --> 0:13:53.320 we get a context of okay, gosh, that's you know, 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:55.920 three days worth of work, do we really want that 0:13:56.000 --> 0:13:58.400 new flashy thing. Is it just for our ego or 0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:01.000 is it just a short term satisfaction. I think that's 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:04.360 where it can be incredibly helpful, and of course, like 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:06.880 you can also go too far as well. 0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:09.240 For a very brief moment there, I thought you were 0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:11.760 about to say, pull money out of a rabbit. It 0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:14.000 sounds as you started to take a rabbit. 0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:16.079 Pull money out of a like a rabbit, like a magician. 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:18.080 No, I figured that's what it was, and I just 0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:20.960 thought it was quite an intriguing image of where from 0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:24.280 a rabbit you would pull the money. Anyway, we'll move on, 0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:31.040 We will move on from that. One part of your 0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:35.200 money or your life and the fire philosophy is this 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:45.800 idea of kind of the life energy and the that 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:51.560 you are trading your time and your energy for money, right, 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:54.160 And this kind of all ties back into back into 0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:57.560 this this trade off that you were explaining to your kids, 0:14:58.040 --> 0:15:00.360 the fact that this is these are our that you 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:02.640 would prefer to spend with them doing something else, but 0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:03.720 instead you. 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:07.200 Need now I need to go and hustle exactly to 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:08.200 fix the curtains. 0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:12.840 Is that does that go too far? Can do you think? 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:15.000 Because it feels like there. Yes, there is a little 0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:17.560 bit of use in reframing it. But we're all we 0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:20.280 all have to work, we all have to do something, 0:15:20.320 --> 0:15:24.040 and if you do that, you'll end up resenting your job. 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:26.880 This is why I said. It can become quite toxic 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:32.040 and also you can become it can become very limiting. 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:33.800 Like you know, you think, oh, well, I kind of 0:15:33.840 --> 0:15:36.360 fool that because that's x amount of hours, Like it 0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:41.800 doesn't take into consideration the intangible value, the priceless moments 0:15:42.640 --> 0:15:45.640 from doing that particular activity or spending that money, you know, 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:47.600 you know, such as a holiday. You know, you think, oh, 0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:49.440 well that holiday is going to take your momth's save 0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:51.400 up save up for it. Well, then I won't do it. 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:54.520 You know, that's too much. But you're forgetting about what 0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:57.520 comes from that holiday, the memories, the moments, the bonding, 0:15:57.560 --> 0:16:00.320 the connection that you venture, the excitement, the journey. Yeah, 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:02.840 you know, having your eyes open to see another culture. 0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:06.120 You know, that's the intangible value that isn't factored back 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:09.120 into here, you know, and that could take your hourly 0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:13.120 way from being twenty two dollars to fifty two dollars. 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:15.600 You know, and you know you can miss out on 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:17.280 a lot of things if you get too fixated on. 0:16:17.240 --> 0:16:21.640 This, Where does it fit into the broader fire philosophy 0:16:22.040 --> 0:16:25.320 in that case, because this is a fire is all 0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:31.040 about financial independence, retire early and about getting more of 0:16:31.040 --> 0:16:35.640 that time back for yourself and to live the way 0:16:35.680 --> 0:16:39.800 that you want. It feels like it's actually all about 0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:44.560 a trade off, about working really hard now to give 0:16:44.600 --> 0:16:47.720 yourself all of those hours later. 0:16:48.600 --> 0:16:51.920 I think the thing with this is it's very much 0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:53.920 about the awareness, and I think it stops at that 0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:56.920 and how you choose to use that awareness in a 0:16:57.080 --> 0:17:00.120 positive way. You know, being aware of the time, being 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:04.080 aware of you know your expenses, how you use money, 0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:07.440 Also being aware of the energy. You know what you're 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:10.119 using to increase your energy, where you spend your time 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:13.960 that depletes your energy, and of course what your lifestyle is. 0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:17.920 And this is a big component to the fire movement. Obviously, 0:17:17.920 --> 0:17:22.520 if you've got a expensive, extravagant, lavish lifestyle, that's going 0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:25.440 to need greater financial freedom to be able to support it, 0:17:26.000 --> 0:17:28.680 whereas if it's less it's obviously easier and faster to build. 0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:30.960 So finding that sweet spot that works for you, and again, 0:17:31.040 --> 0:17:33.040 as I said, this awareness so that you can work 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:37.280 understand you know, obviously what the true hourly wage is 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:41.040 for yourself, but actually build something that's meaningful and relates 0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:44.399 to what you want, what your value system is, what 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:46.159 you want to intentionally build. 0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:51.720 If somebody does go through this process of calculating their 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:56.080 true hourly wage and they don't like the answer and 0:17:56.119 --> 0:18:00.919 they don't like what they discover, how do they have spirally, 0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:07.600 how do you avoid becoming resentful of your work? What 0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:10.919 do you do? Is there a positive way to reinforce that? 0:18:11.359 --> 0:18:13.840 Well, it's about solutions and about stepping up and taking 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:16.959 action to make those changes so you don't stay stuck, 0:18:17.560 --> 0:18:20.880 you know, looking at negotiating your work, you know, can 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:23.119 you negotiate saying two days a week from home that 0:18:23.160 --> 0:18:25.600 you're not traveling as much? Can you look at spending 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:27.959 some money on some additional training and qualifications so that 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:30.080 you can look at changing jobs or apply for a 0:18:30.080 --> 0:18:33.120 pay rise or a promotion, you know, is it time 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:35.600 to look at maybe a side hustle, you know, so 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:38.199 you can start sort of adding back the you know, 0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:40.719 the top line figure to help get your you know, 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:43.119 how much you actually walk away with as an hourly 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:43.720 rate up? 0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:44.040 Again? 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:46.800 You know, can you look at reducing your working hours. 0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:48.800 I remember when I first launched Triggle Mama TV and 0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:52.160 I did a video about this, and a woman wrote 0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:54.879 to me and said she changed her hours so that 0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:57.800 she could do longer hours at work, but then immense 0:18:58.080 --> 0:19:00.560 she got a whole day back at home, which was 0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:02.240 great for her but also manage. You got a whole 0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:04.080 day back at home with her young children and didn't 0:19:04.080 --> 0:19:06.959 have to pay for daycare. So that awareness is really 0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:11.199 really powerful, you know, looking at okay, like how do 0:19:11.280 --> 0:19:13.840 I run my life necessar I'm trying that this awareness 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:16.840 to build intentionally build something that reflects back to you. 0:19:17.640 --> 0:19:20.040 So there's lots of different things. You've got to look 0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:23.720 use the awareness to look to the solution and understand 0:19:23.800 --> 0:19:25.600 what it is that you want to build it. You 0:19:25.600 --> 0:19:28.679 don't want to stay stuck because you become bitter and 0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:31.480 resentful and old and angry. 0:19:32.640 --> 0:19:35.840 This ended up being different to what I was expecting 0:19:36.640 --> 0:19:38.560 because I thought it was one of those things that 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:41.199 you do it and it changes your life. It changes 0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:43.240 the way that you see your money, and it changes 0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:45.680 your approach to spending and to your job and all 0:19:45.680 --> 0:19:50.280 of that, But really it doesn't as such, and I 0:19:50.320 --> 0:19:54.080 think your advice today has actually been a good reality 0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:56.560