WEBVTT - Paul Murray Live | 28 May

0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:07.320
<v Speaker 1>From the Skying Center. This is Paul Murray Live. Thank you, Roxbar.

0:00:07.680 --> 0:00:11.320
<v Speaker 2>Happy Tuesday, so much, Telly. Let's make the most of

0:00:11.360 --> 0:00:13.800
<v Speaker 2>the one hour that we have together. We have a

0:00:13.840 --> 0:00:16.479
<v Speaker 2>country that, let's be honest, there's got some pretty average

0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:20.440
<v Speaker 2>politicians in it, be it the Prime Minister or hapless ministers,

0:00:20.520 --> 0:00:24.160
<v Speaker 2>or the silly teals or the green you know, there's

0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:27.000
<v Speaker 2>just not that sense of jeez, we're playing with the

0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:29.440
<v Speaker 2>first rung here. It feels like we're playing with the

0:00:29.480 --> 0:00:31.760
<v Speaker 2>staffers of reserve grade.

0:00:32.200 --> 0:00:34.640
<v Speaker 1>So they're not really up to speed. We know that.

0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:38.800
<v Speaker 2>But there are politicians in and amongst that group who

0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:41.360
<v Speaker 2>deserve to be singled out for how laser focus they

0:00:41.360 --> 0:00:45.000
<v Speaker 2>are on the common values of everyday Australians. And I

0:00:45.040 --> 0:00:46.919
<v Speaker 2>believe there is no bitter person in the Parliament than

0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:50.920
<v Speaker 2>Senator just Into nampaging Price. She showed herself to be

0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:57.840
<v Speaker 2>so fearless last year when every establishment figure, establishment media,

0:00:58.080 --> 0:01:03.840
<v Speaker 2>establishment business, light society had its view about whether Australia

0:01:03.880 --> 0:01:08.000
<v Speaker 2>should or shouldn't put something into the constitution. She disagreed,

0:01:09.080 --> 0:01:12.160
<v Speaker 2>and she took the opposition from being a group of

0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:14.720
<v Speaker 2>people too scared to say no to a group that

0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:18.759
<v Speaker 2>profoundly said no, and her leadership in particular was why

0:01:18.880 --> 0:01:21.480
<v Speaker 2>in part the country was able to be convinced sixty

0:01:21.600 --> 0:01:22.480
<v Speaker 2>forty no.

0:01:22.640 --> 0:01:23.920
<v Speaker 1>But that's old news.

0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:26.640
<v Speaker 2>What I love about to sin her, and I loved

0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:29.800
<v Speaker 2>before she came into the Senate, when we talked to

0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:31.920
<v Speaker 2>her for years before all of that, and of course

0:01:31.920 --> 0:01:35.520
<v Speaker 2>she was doing her best on the Council in Alice Springs,

0:01:36.280 --> 0:01:39.880
<v Speaker 2>is that she will just find a way to explain

0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:43.000
<v Speaker 2>complicated things in a fashion again that share the common

0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:47.320
<v Speaker 2>values of decent and suburban Australia.

0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:49.360
<v Speaker 1>She's giving blistering speeches.

0:01:49.400 --> 0:01:52.160
<v Speaker 2>She's an incredible interview every time we get the chance

0:01:52.520 --> 0:01:53.480
<v Speaker 2>to have her on the telling.

0:01:55.280 --> 0:01:55.840
<v Speaker 1>But she is.

0:01:55.800 --> 0:02:00.320
<v Speaker 2>Somebody who is an absolute star of the opposition, person

0:02:00.360 --> 0:02:02.320
<v Speaker 2>who I hope at some point they find a way

0:02:02.320 --> 0:02:04.160
<v Speaker 2>to get her into the Lower House and she gets

0:02:04.160 --> 0:02:05.880
<v Speaker 2>to go up the batting order and there is no

0:02:05.960 --> 0:02:08.280
<v Speaker 2>limit to how high she could achieve. And I think

0:02:08.320 --> 0:02:11.520
<v Speaker 2>Australians would support her on that journey whenever she chooses

0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:15.480
<v Speaker 2>to take it. And like many people, I keep an

0:02:15.520 --> 0:02:17.840
<v Speaker 2>eye on her Facebook page and a social media and

0:02:17.919 --> 0:02:22.160
<v Speaker 2>she puts out a newsletter to her supporters quite frequently,

0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:24.520
<v Speaker 2>and she wrote in the past couple of days an

0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:29.960
<v Speaker 2>extraordinary open letter about the way Australia is failing at

0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:32.800
<v Speaker 2>the moment and the way this government in particular is failing.

0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:35.440
<v Speaker 2>She didn't do an interview, she didn't do radio. So

0:02:35.480 --> 0:02:37.800
<v Speaker 2>I'm just going to read directly from this. Does this

0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:39.800
<v Speaker 2>not sound like exactly what we talk about each and

0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:42.320
<v Speaker 2>every night and what you feel and have felt for years.

0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:46.120
<v Speaker 2>Quote the Australian people exercise their democratic rights and put

0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:48.880
<v Speaker 2>Anthony of an Easy in the latch under the impression

0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:50.800
<v Speaker 2>that you deliver a two hundred and seventy five reduction

0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:53.920
<v Speaker 2>power bills, lower the cost of living and leave families

0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:57.160
<v Speaker 2>better off. But the results are clear. None of that

0:02:57.240 --> 0:03:00.440
<v Speaker 2>has happened. Interest rates are even higher, in flotation has

0:03:00.440 --> 0:03:03.359
<v Speaker 2>barely slowed, and there is no sign of that two

0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:07.080
<v Speaker 2>hundred and seventy five dollar reduction under labor. The typical

0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:09.360
<v Speaker 2>family with the mortgage is now thirty five.

0:03:09.240 --> 0:03:13.000
<v Speaker 1>Thousand dollars a year worse off. What an astonishing failure.

0:03:14.080 --> 0:03:14.600
<v Speaker 1>She goes on.

0:03:15.440 --> 0:03:18.360
<v Speaker 2>But it gets worse because now the government is bringing

0:03:18.360 --> 0:03:20.799
<v Speaker 2>in one point six seven million migrants over the next

0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:23.720
<v Speaker 2>five years, right in the middle of a housing crisis.

0:03:24.240 --> 0:03:25.760
<v Speaker 1>This is nation destroying stuff.

0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:29.120
<v Speaker 2>Now, this was written up today in part by the

0:03:29.200 --> 0:03:31.959
<v Speaker 2>Daily Mail, so their paragraph says that Senator Price finished

0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:33.840
<v Speaker 2>the letter labeling mister Alberinezi.

0:03:33.400 --> 0:03:36.960
<v Speaker 1>A creature of politics with misplaced priorities and no accountability.

0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:39.120
<v Speaker 1>A back to Senator Price quote.

0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:42.880
<v Speaker 2>Anthony Abernezi is obsessed with his legacy and his photo ops.

0:03:43.080 --> 0:03:45.560
<v Speaker 2>He's a creature of politics who is already turning his

0:03:45.600 --> 0:03:47.960
<v Speaker 2>focus to the election rather than focusing on the problems

0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:52.480
<v Speaker 2>you're facing. That's been the pattern of the last two years.

0:03:52.480 --> 0:03:57.880
<v Speaker 2>Misplaced priorities, no accountability and all politics all the time.

0:03:58.240 --> 0:04:03.559
<v Speaker 2>She is one hundred percent. She has a spectacular ability

0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:10.000
<v Speaker 2>to speak like we speak and to reach out beyond

0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:12.720
<v Speaker 2>the people who would normally seek out programs like this

0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:16.440
<v Speaker 2>and have the conversations that you have at home each

0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:19.320
<v Speaker 2>and every day. She's a real credit to herself, her

0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:23.240
<v Speaker 2>family and the opposition. And again I read you this

0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:25.080
<v Speaker 2>because I want you to sign up to her newsletter

0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:26.720
<v Speaker 2>at her website. I want you to follow her on

0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:29.680
<v Speaker 2>social media. I want you to be right at the

0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:32.520
<v Speaker 2>front lines of everything she does, every speech she makes

0:04:32.560 --> 0:04:35.560
<v Speaker 2>in the Parliament, and every gesture that she makes in

0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:38.599
<v Speaker 2>pursuit of a government that we know is all about

0:04:38.960 --> 0:04:43.240
<v Speaker 2>lies and spin and gas lighting. She has a bright

0:04:43.279 --> 0:04:46.600
<v Speaker 2>political future in front of her, and again the sky

0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:52.000
<v Speaker 2>is the limit. Now, another person who I believe is

0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:55.600
<v Speaker 2>a fearless politician is Holly Hughes. Holly Hughes is a

0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:58.200
<v Speaker 2>person who has fought very hard to make her way

0:04:58.200 --> 0:05:01.320
<v Speaker 2>into Parliament. She was incredibly patient, incredibly loyal to her

0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:03.480
<v Speaker 2>party and guess what her party turned around and did

0:05:03.520 --> 0:05:06.640
<v Speaker 2>to her on the weekend bang That put her in

0:05:06.640 --> 0:05:10.080
<v Speaker 2>a position that is essentially the unwinnable spot due to

0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:13.159
<v Speaker 2>all of the factional garbage inside the Nusipas Liberal Party.

0:05:14.279 --> 0:05:17.680
<v Speaker 1>Now Holly is again one of those.

0:05:17.560 --> 0:05:20.200
<v Speaker 2>People who just knows how to take up the fight,

0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:23.279
<v Speaker 2>just one of those people who is willing to engage

0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:27.440
<v Speaker 2>with you, to fearlessly stand in the Senate and take

0:05:27.480 --> 0:05:31.320
<v Speaker 2>them all on. Yet the Liberal Party and its factional

0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:36.840
<v Speaker 2>rubbish means that a person you've never heard of ends

0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:40.080
<v Speaker 2>up in a position of greater prominence, and a politician

0:05:40.120 --> 0:05:43.240
<v Speaker 2>who barely is seen in places like this because it's

0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:45.680
<v Speaker 2>all a little bit too dirty, ends up with the

0:05:45.720 --> 0:05:48.560
<v Speaker 2>top spot of the Liberal Party in New South Wales.

0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:54.559
<v Speaker 2>Now you know that I am absolutely supportive of holding

0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:56.320
<v Speaker 2>this government to account, and yes that.

0:05:56.279 --> 0:05:59.480
<v Speaker 1>Would mean support for Peter Dutton.

0:06:00.600 --> 0:06:02.400
<v Speaker 2>But I've got to say I cannot offer the same

0:06:02.440 --> 0:06:04.280
<v Speaker 2>support for some of the garbage that is going on

0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:07.200
<v Speaker 2>in the Senate. Some of the people that exist in

0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:09.560
<v Speaker 2>the Senate in supposedly the name of the Liberal Party,

0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:11.800
<v Speaker 2>the people who assume that you will just vote for

0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:15.080
<v Speaker 2>them because what other options are there. Well, in twenty

0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:21.039
<v Speaker 2>sixteen people saw other options in the Senate, the largest

0:06:21.040 --> 0:06:25.560
<v Speaker 2>cross benches were elected as a result. In twenty nineteen,

0:06:25.560 --> 0:06:28.240
<v Speaker 2>those people came back and they voted for Team Blue,

0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:33.120
<v Speaker 2>and they won. When disappointments set in, people, of course

0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:34.680
<v Speaker 2>in the Upper House vote they went in lots of

0:06:34.720 --> 0:06:39.599
<v Speaker 2>other places, and the preferences never came back. Now Holly

0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:44.280
<v Speaker 2>has every right to pack up her bag and not

0:06:44.440 --> 0:06:48.159
<v Speaker 2>say anything in publicly. But more importantly, I know she won't.

0:06:48.800 --> 0:06:52.800
<v Speaker 2>I know that she'll sit back, be understandably mighty peed

0:06:52.920 --> 0:06:56.479
<v Speaker 2>off at the people around her, but she would continue

0:06:56.480 --> 0:06:58.880
<v Speaker 2>the fight all the way to the next election.

0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:00.200
<v Speaker 1>She's always welcome here.

0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:05.000
<v Speaker 2>There are good people in our Parliament, the people who

0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:08.520
<v Speaker 2>sometimes wield the power inside the party not so.

0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:12.240
<v Speaker 1>Good now, right now.

0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:16.040
<v Speaker 2>Senate is in estimates, which means the politicians get to

0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:19.080
<v Speaker 2>play prosecutor from time to time, and there are people

0:07:19.120 --> 0:07:21.040
<v Speaker 2>that again are very good at and something they're pretty

0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:23.440
<v Speaker 2>bad at it, but it's an opportunity to try to

0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:26.440
<v Speaker 2>get some answers out of politicians who but otherwise not

0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:29.280
<v Speaker 2>have to answer a question in the Parliament. Remember they

0:07:29.600 --> 0:07:31.880
<v Speaker 2>really don't, and of course at a press conference where

0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:34.840
<v Speaker 2>they just change the subject. So Senate estimates is that

0:07:34.880 --> 0:07:38.800
<v Speaker 2>process which is taking place as we speak now. Often

0:07:39.120 --> 0:07:43.640
<v Speaker 2>the politician is sitting next to a bureaucrat. The bureaucrat

0:07:44.080 --> 0:07:48.280
<v Speaker 2>is of course supposedly subservient to the minister, but the

0:07:48.320 --> 0:07:50.640
<v Speaker 2>reality is that the minister in a labor government is

0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:54.160
<v Speaker 2>just basically an extension of the public service. So they're

0:07:54.160 --> 0:07:57.080
<v Speaker 2>all on the same team about not embarrassing anything to

0:07:57.120 --> 0:07:58.520
<v Speaker 2>do with a labor government.

0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:00.120
<v Speaker 1>So you get stuff like this.

0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:04.120
<v Speaker 3>Take on notice, take it, take it you take it

0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:04.520
<v Speaker 3>on notice.

0:08:05.360 --> 0:08:06.520
<v Speaker 4>You're taking it on notice.

0:08:06.720 --> 0:08:10.720
<v Speaker 5>I'll have some more questions on notice for that, and it.

0:08:10.600 --> 0:08:13.040
<v Speaker 2>Is something that all politicians at both sides have done

0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:14.600
<v Speaker 2>for some period of time. But i'll take it on

0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:16.840
<v Speaker 2>notice basically means I'll get back to you, and I'll

0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:19.680
<v Speaker 2>get back to you in written form because I can't

0:08:19.720 --> 0:08:21.440
<v Speaker 2>answer or won't answer the question in front of you

0:08:21.600 --> 0:08:26.640
<v Speaker 2>right now. Well, a table document in the Senate has

0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:32.840
<v Speaker 2>blown a massive hole in how this government hides accountability,

0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:37.120
<v Speaker 2>how ministers and the public servants backing them up don't

0:08:37.160 --> 0:08:41.360
<v Speaker 2>answer the questions. This is that document tabled in the

0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:45.160
<v Speaker 2>Senate and done so a couple of weeks ago. It

0:08:45.240 --> 0:08:49.240
<v Speaker 2>is in part advice which is coming directly from the

0:08:49.320 --> 0:08:52.640
<v Speaker 2>highest office in the land about how do answer or

0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:57.400
<v Speaker 2>more importantly, not answer questions. In fact, suggest a draft response,

0:08:57.440 --> 0:09:01.040
<v Speaker 2>suggested draft response, suggest a draft response, lots of basically

0:09:01.360 --> 0:09:04.600
<v Speaker 2>the script. And when, in this case the shadow ministers

0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:09.400
<v Speaker 2>or the liberal senators start answering or asking tough questions,

0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:11.839
<v Speaker 2>well you just consult to the script.

0:09:13.040 --> 0:09:14.079
<v Speaker 1>And don't answer the question.

0:09:15.480 --> 0:09:18.439
<v Speaker 2>Now, interestingly, this has actually been seen by the Clerk

0:09:18.480 --> 0:09:20.640
<v Speaker 2>of the Senate or the Clerk of the Senate as

0:09:20.720 --> 0:09:23.480
<v Speaker 2>not the way it's supposed to work. Now, of course,

0:09:23.480 --> 0:09:26.400
<v Speaker 2>there'll be no sanctions because whatever they're in charge of

0:09:26.400 --> 0:09:28.520
<v Speaker 2>the rules, they'll be able to overrule whatever the opinion

0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:31.040
<v Speaker 2>of the clerk seems to be. But we literally have

0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:33.560
<v Speaker 2>a script that is now being sent out. Now maybe

0:09:33.559 --> 0:09:36.040
<v Speaker 2>this has happened for every government, but they've all been

0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:39.960
<v Speaker 2>able to hide the script. This script is now available

0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:42.559
<v Speaker 2>for all to see, and the senators, like the ones

0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:44.520
<v Speaker 2>that I just showed you, are now the ones asking

0:09:44.559 --> 0:09:49.120
<v Speaker 2>the questions. But because they have the script, they're able

0:09:49.160 --> 0:09:52.240
<v Speaker 2>to say, is that your answer? Or are you just

0:09:52.320 --> 0:09:55.040
<v Speaker 2>reading from the script? Perfect example of it was Matt

0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:59.880
<v Speaker 2>Canavan asking questions today, where again big vague answers were

0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:02.719
<v Speaker 2>being given because that's what the script says, rather than

0:10:02.880 --> 0:10:04.280
<v Speaker 2>answer the damn question.

0:10:05.280 --> 0:10:09.280
<v Speaker 6>Answer is a direct quote from page seven seven. Yet

0:10:09.280 --> 0:10:12.440
<v Speaker 6>page seven of the PMO Manual, and I'll just read

0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:15.320
<v Speaker 6>it out is a little lengthy, I apologize, but it

0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:18.520
<v Speaker 6>shows the complete lack of answers here.

0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:21.920
<v Speaker 2>Now again, I won't bore you with the super details

0:10:21.920 --> 0:10:24.440
<v Speaker 2>of this, but it's about showing you the tactic, showing

0:10:24.440 --> 0:10:26.600
<v Speaker 2>you how the sausage is made. And just like they

0:10:26.600 --> 0:10:28.360
<v Speaker 2>always say, you don't want to see how the sausage

0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:32.320
<v Speaker 2>is made. This is the example of the person being

0:10:32.360 --> 0:10:36.000
<v Speaker 2>asked the question, who's following the script, who just repeats

0:10:36.040 --> 0:10:38.480
<v Speaker 2>the script until they change the question.

0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:42.640
<v Speaker 6>I mean, minister, do you consider that an answer to

0:10:42.679 --> 0:10:47.040
<v Speaker 6>that question. Well, it was definitely an answer to the question.

0:10:48.120 --> 0:10:51.320
<v Speaker 6>In what way you've just provided the answer provides a

0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:53.480
<v Speaker 6>description of IDCs, which was not asked for. We know

0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:56.480
<v Speaker 6>what an IDC is. How is that an answer to

0:10:57.200 --> 0:10:59.280
<v Speaker 6>and it's a very simple question, how many IDCs are

0:10:59.280 --> 0:10:59.720
<v Speaker 6>you a member of?

0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:04.000
<v Speaker 4>Well an answer was provided, and obviously from your point

0:11:04.000 --> 0:11:06.400
<v Speaker 4>of view, it's not a satisfactory as it were.

0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:09.360
<v Speaker 2>Speaking the same language here, you see the game here

0:11:09.559 --> 0:11:14.400
<v Speaker 2>is not just to rob the opposition of information. It's

0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:17.960
<v Speaker 2>also because it's in front of cameras, a desperate attempt

0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:20.480
<v Speaker 2>to not get caught in something that might become a

0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:23.480
<v Speaker 2>story by tomorrow morning or the six pm news in

0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:26.800
<v Speaker 2>a couple of days time. But this is the government

0:11:26.840 --> 0:11:30.200
<v Speaker 2>that was supposedly about transparency. This was the government that

0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:31.720
<v Speaker 2>was always going to be accountable. This was the one

0:11:31.760 --> 0:11:33.360
<v Speaker 2>that wasn't going to play these types of games. But

0:11:33.360 --> 0:11:36.680
<v Speaker 2>of course they are just like every other politician that

0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:41.680
<v Speaker 2>has gone before them, interested in putting out fires or

0:11:42.000 --> 0:11:44.600
<v Speaker 2>hiding fires than telling you the truth of what's going on.

0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:48.040
<v Speaker 2>A perfect example of that, and let's see how this

0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:49.480
<v Speaker 2>goes over the next few days.

0:11:50.640 --> 0:11:52.360
<v Speaker 1>Is there is the federal.

0:11:52.000 --> 0:11:54.679
<v Speaker 2>Budget that the media spends an awful lot of time

0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:58.079
<v Speaker 2>looking at and literally gets locked behind closed doors to read.

0:11:59.040 --> 0:12:00.679
<v Speaker 2>And it's about beating here a billion the air and

0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:03.480
<v Speaker 2>tax cuts and you get all that, but that's not

0:12:03.559 --> 0:12:06.400
<v Speaker 2>the full financial picture of how much the Australian government

0:12:06.440 --> 0:12:11.840
<v Speaker 2>is spending. There are literally billions and billions and billions

0:12:11.960 --> 0:12:14.319
<v Speaker 2>of dollars I would suggest hundreds of billions.

0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:16.720
<v Speaker 1>Of dollars that are off budget.

0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:19.679
<v Speaker 2>And yes every government has done it, but still this

0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:22.680
<v Speaker 2>one that promised to be different is doing exactly the

0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:23.120
<v Speaker 2>same thing.

0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:26.720
<v Speaker 1>You see. You know how Chris Bowen has got.

0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:29.480
<v Speaker 2>A slush fund basically sixty billion dollars of which to

0:12:29.600 --> 0:12:33.120
<v Speaker 2>enter into commercial agreements that then we don't know about

0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:37.640
<v Speaker 2>with people to help supercharge the building of the renewable

0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:40.640
<v Speaker 2>energy network. Well, none of that is in the federal

0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:45.720
<v Speaker 2>budget that is off budget. And with Australia having a

0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:50.959
<v Speaker 2>very slender at this stage surplus built exclusively off things

0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:55.760
<v Speaker 2>like petrol tax, cigarette tax and alcohol tax, the reality

0:12:55.920 --> 0:12:57.800
<v Speaker 2>is that once you start to actually look at the

0:12:57.840 --> 0:13:01.760
<v Speaker 2>money that is off budget, it pushes us deeper into deficit,

0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:04.360
<v Speaker 2>which means it's borrowed money.

0:13:05.160 --> 0:13:07.120
<v Speaker 1>Let's find out in this Senate estimate.

0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:11.640
<v Speaker 2>So my challenge to everyone asking questions is to ask

0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:14.280
<v Speaker 2>the department how much of their spending is off budget

0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:17.640
<v Speaker 2>and can we please have a list of it, because

0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:21.439
<v Speaker 2>why don't it be fascinating to see if the transparent

0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:23.640
<v Speaker 2>government that's got a script about how you don't answer

0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:27.360
<v Speaker 2>the questions. We'll also find a way to not tell

0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:31.400
<v Speaker 2>you how much money they are spending off the budget

0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:35.600
<v Speaker 2>that requires us to borrow from overseas, which in part

0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:38.160
<v Speaker 2>is how our debt under this government gets to one

0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:41.280
<v Speaker 2>point two t for trillion dollars. And that's just for

0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:44.959
<v Speaker 2>the stuff that's on budget off budget I think is

0:13:45.000 --> 0:13:47.400
<v Speaker 2>going to make our toes curl anyway.

0:13:47.559 --> 0:13:51.559
<v Speaker 1>Challenge to everyone asking the questions now.

0:13:51.640 --> 0:13:55.840
<v Speaker 2>Meantime, Immigration Minister Andrew Giles, we're all on the same ticket. Goodbye,

0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:59.640
<v Speaker 2>see you, ladder punt. This bloke go away useless, terrible

0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:04.600
<v Speaker 2>because he does not view his portfolio as one that

0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:07.160
<v Speaker 2>is about booting people out of the country. Instead, it

0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:10.000
<v Speaker 2>is about well finding any excuse to possibly keep people

0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:13.000
<v Speaker 2>in the country because then they'll vote for you.

0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:13.440
<v Speaker 1>I don't know.

0:14:13.840 --> 0:14:17.040
<v Speaker 2>It's real insight into morality, and the morality is all

0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:21.080
<v Speaker 2>exactly the opposite of what has previously been the way

0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:23.720
<v Speaker 2>this country does things. But again, just as it was

0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:26.920
<v Speaker 2>after the Howard government with Rudd, where they thought, oh well,

0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:30.280
<v Speaker 2>we can let the boats back in, and then eventually,

0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:32.480
<v Speaker 2>after a few years and a thousand people dying, they

0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:36.040
<v Speaker 2>have to recognize that their version of good is actually worse.

0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:38.400
<v Speaker 1>And this government is learning.

0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:41.200
<v Speaker 2>Day by day that there's a reason somebody who's the

0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:43.240
<v Speaker 2>Immigration Minister or the Home Affairs Minister has to be

0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:46.200
<v Speaker 2>a tough nut, has to be somebody willing to look

0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:49.240
<v Speaker 2>even weeping people in the eye and say sorry, no,

0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:54.200
<v Speaker 2>see you later. And they would have bipartisan support if

0:14:54.240 --> 0:14:56.840
<v Speaker 2>they wanted to push legislation through to try and close

0:14:56.840 --> 0:14:58.240
<v Speaker 2>all of the gaps, to make sure that there was

0:14:58.280 --> 0:15:02.880
<v Speaker 2>absolute ministerial responsible ability, but of course they don't want that.

0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:06.360
<v Speaker 2>Instead they've tried to find lots of ways to send

0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:09.840
<v Speaker 2>subtle smoke signals to the people who make the decisions

0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:13.440
<v Speaker 2>of the Administrative Appeals Tribunal, or they send smoke signals

0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:16.560
<v Speaker 2>to the board of people who decide whether or not

0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:18.760
<v Speaker 2>the people who were let out as a result of

0:15:18.800 --> 0:15:22.480
<v Speaker 2>an overreaction to the High Court, whether these people should

0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:24.480
<v Speaker 2>be wearing ankle bracelets or not. But of course, as

0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:27.400
<v Speaker 2>you know by now, one in five of the people

0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:31.160
<v Speaker 2>that have been brought out of detention by the High

0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:34.040
<v Speaker 2>Court by this government have gone on to commit crimes,

0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:37.160
<v Speaker 2>most famously pretty you have examples like the person in

0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:40.680
<v Speaker 2>Western Australia is being accused by police there have been

0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:45.320
<v Speaker 2>responsible for an alleged attack on a woman in the seventies.

0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:49.040
<v Speaker 2>You know that case very well well. As the cases

0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:53.640
<v Speaker 2>continue to pile up, the government clearly thinks that they

0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:56.520
<v Speaker 2>can just ignore the issue or pretend that it's one

0:15:56.520 --> 0:15:58.880
<v Speaker 2>that only people like you and I care about because

0:15:58.880 --> 0:16:00.360
<v Speaker 2>you and I are going to vote for them any way.

0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:00.960
<v Speaker 1>Just so what.

0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:04.520
<v Speaker 2>But the Opposition is doing an excellent job in question

0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:08.840
<v Speaker 2>time today of lining up a series of horrific failures

0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:12.080
<v Speaker 2>of this bloke where his judgment or the smoke signal

0:16:12.120 --> 0:16:14.240
<v Speaker 2>that he is sent to other people involved in the

0:16:14.280 --> 0:16:15.840
<v Speaker 2>system is just wrong.

0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:20.600
<v Speaker 7>Greation detainer referred to as cohc Y had his visa

0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:23.640
<v Speaker 7>canceled after he was convicted of raping his fourteen year

0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:26.920
<v Speaker 7>old stepdaughter whilst his wife was in hospital giving birth.

0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:31.120
<v Speaker 8>Sudan Is National Emmanuel Sarki's visa was canceled after he

0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:34.760
<v Speaker 8>was convicted of serious domestic violence offenses and threats to

0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:37.240
<v Speaker 8>kill with a knife. He's now been charged with the

0:16:37.240 --> 0:16:40.640
<v Speaker 8>stabbing murder of twenty two year old Bosco Minorano in Brisbane.

0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:44.360
<v Speaker 7>Saki's visa was reinstated by the AAT as a direct

0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:46.920
<v Speaker 7>result of the watering down of the law by the

0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:49.640
<v Speaker 7>Albanezi government and the issuance of Direction ninety nine.

0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:53.840
<v Speaker 4>A Kenyan national known as xl FM had his visa

0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:57.600
<v Speaker 4>canceled after he was convicted of raping the seventeen year

0:16:57.640 --> 0:17:00.920
<v Speaker 4>old sister of the mother of his child and then

0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:03.120
<v Speaker 4>robbing a petrol station with a meat cleaver.

0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:07.600
<v Speaker 9>The Congolese national known as HWGF had his visa canceled

0:17:07.680 --> 0:17:11.000
<v Speaker 9>after being jailed for aggravated assault and repeated breaches of

0:17:11.040 --> 0:17:15.280
<v Speaker 9>domestic violence orders. HWGF has been convicted of a total

0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:19.200
<v Speaker 9>of twenty seven separate offenses, including multiple counts of violent

0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:22.680
<v Speaker 9>assault against two former partners. They are extended families as

0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:23.639
<v Speaker 9>well as police.

0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:27.480
<v Speaker 10>And Afghan national referred to as z JFQ had his

0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:31.080
<v Speaker 10>visa canceled after being convicted of both raping a sixteen

0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:35.119
<v Speaker 10>year old girl and intercourse with a disabled fourteen.

0:17:34.800 --> 0:17:35.600
<v Speaker 1>Year old child.

0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:38.760
<v Speaker 10>The Albanesi Labor government's watering down of the law has

0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:42.360
<v Speaker 10>allowed this criminal to stay in Australia, making our country

0:17:42.520 --> 0:17:46.560
<v Speaker 10>less safe. When will the Albanesi Labour government apologize for

0:17:46.600 --> 0:17:50.840
<v Speaker 10>this catastrophic mistake and reverse its direction ninety nine?

0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:55.600
<v Speaker 2>It's wild right now, we can't deport people that are

0:17:55.640 --> 0:17:58.399
<v Speaker 2>born here, but the people who weren't born here we

0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:00.320
<v Speaker 2>have the legal right to be able to say sorry,

0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:01.720
<v Speaker 2>visa canceled.

0:18:01.560 --> 0:18:06.560
<v Speaker 1>Punt goodbye. Why wouldn't any of those scenarios result in

0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:10.800
<v Speaker 1>somebody going well, of course, the minister says, not his fault.

0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:15.600
<v Speaker 3>This was a visa that was canceled and remained canceled

0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:20.120
<v Speaker 3>under ministerial direction ninety nine. Now it was a decision

0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:25.280
<v Speaker 3>of the aat an independent tribunal to overturn to overturn

0:18:25.840 --> 0:18:30.360
<v Speaker 3>the cancelation of the visa. Now, a number of cases

0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:33.920
<v Speaker 3>were not raised with me by my department, and I've

0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:39.480
<v Speaker 3>asked my department for an explanation why my department is now.

0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:43.000
<v Speaker 7>Looking at all these cases as a priority for pain that.

0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:46.600
<v Speaker 3>They are all under cancelation consideration.

0:18:49.320 --> 0:18:51.560
<v Speaker 2>Now again he can say I tried to do the

0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:53.600
<v Speaker 2>right thing that I was overruled by somebody else. But

0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:56.680
<v Speaker 2>the group who overruled are the ones who are acting

0:18:56.680 --> 0:18:58.840
<v Speaker 2>in part on the advice that you've seen, which is

0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:01.119
<v Speaker 2>er on the side of caution. If somebody has a

0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:04.439
<v Speaker 2>connection here in Australia, they should stay in Australia. And

0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:06.560
<v Speaker 2>a perfect example of that is one that Nick Kata

0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:13.000
<v Speaker 2>was talking about in the Australian newspaper today. This one

0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:15.840
<v Speaker 2>is a bloke about a bloke who has a record

0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:20.960
<v Speaker 2>of knife crime and car theft, serious driving offenses that

0:19:21.040 --> 0:19:23.560
<v Speaker 2>could have proved fatal in twenty fourteen.

0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:26.960
<v Speaker 1>I'm reading directly here from what nickroa, which is he.

0:19:27.000 --> 0:19:29.520
<v Speaker 2>Caused an accident that resulted in the victim having life

0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:30.440
<v Speaker 2>threatening injuries.

0:19:30.920 --> 0:19:33.919
<v Speaker 1>However, under the.

0:19:33.840 --> 0:19:36.360
<v Speaker 2>Direction ninety nine, that's the smoke signal advice being sent

0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:40.960
<v Speaker 2>from the Minister to the people. At the Administrative Appeals Tribunal,

0:19:41.359 --> 0:19:45.520
<v Speaker 2>this bloke convinced the tribunal that his ten year relationship

0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:50.119
<v Speaker 2>with the same partner and three children that he has

0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:52.720
<v Speaker 2>fathered in this country is the grounds on which he

0:19:52.720 --> 0:19:53.200
<v Speaker 2>can stay.

0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:58.240
<v Speaker 1>So because his kids are here, he gets to stay.

0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:02.399
<v Speaker 2>But what about this he self identifies as an Aboriginal

0:20:02.400 --> 0:20:06.760
<v Speaker 2>person and consider Australia to be my country. So what

0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:10.080
<v Speaker 2>he wrote in a submission to the tribunal, I have

0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:12.840
<v Speaker 2>been accepted by the indigenous people of this country through

0:20:12.880 --> 0:20:15.600
<v Speaker 2>its customs and in a traditional smoking ceremony.

0:20:15.800 --> 0:20:17.280
<v Speaker 1>Again who cares.

0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:21.760
<v Speaker 2>I also learned a lot about Aboriginal culture, was taught

0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:25.159
<v Speaker 2>how to paint Aboriginal art, and have also played the

0:20:25.160 --> 0:20:30.080
<v Speaker 2>digiido in the past. Again who cares? How is this

0:20:30.160 --> 0:20:33.560
<v Speaker 2>bloke able to stay in the country. Not because he

0:20:33.680 --> 0:20:36.440
<v Speaker 2>ended up forming a partnership and having kids and because

0:20:36.480 --> 0:20:37.560
<v Speaker 2>those kids should have a father.

0:20:37.640 --> 0:20:39.080
<v Speaker 1>Then therefore, yes, you can stay.

0:20:39.720 --> 0:20:46.520
<v Speaker 2>But what about the knife crime, the car theft, the

0:20:46.640 --> 0:20:50.679
<v Speaker 2>driving that could have killed people. It's up to the

0:20:50.760 --> 0:20:55.960
<v Speaker 2>minister to write the rules, the Parliament to pass those rules. Yes,

0:20:56.040 --> 0:20:59.480
<v Speaker 2>the courts too have checks and balances, and that's exactly

0:20:59.480 --> 0:21:01.719
<v Speaker 2>what we saw the High Court saying that indefinite attention

0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:06.119
<v Speaker 2>isn't legal and therefore those people came out. But the

0:21:06.160 --> 0:21:09.000
<v Speaker 2>capacity to say that when the minister says on these

0:21:09.080 --> 0:21:14.119
<v Speaker 2>grounds goodbye.

0:21:12.520 --> 0:21:13.280
<v Speaker 1>You should have.

0:21:14.920 --> 0:21:18.920
<v Speaker 2>The highest possible standard is not the lowest ones as

0:21:18.920 --> 0:21:20.840
<v Speaker 2>to whether that person stays in the country or is

0:21:20.880 --> 0:21:23.520
<v Speaker 2>able to appeal. Now, of course, We live in a

0:21:23.520 --> 0:21:25.159
<v Speaker 2>country where eventually you can appeal all the way to

0:21:25.160 --> 0:21:27.000
<v Speaker 2>the High Court, but at some point in time there

0:21:27.040 --> 0:21:31.919
<v Speaker 2>is a final say. And generally speaking, when you appeal,

0:21:31.960 --> 0:21:33.800
<v Speaker 2>you don't appeal on the right and wrong. You appeal

0:21:33.840 --> 0:21:36.200
<v Speaker 2>on the errors of law, the errors of the decision

0:21:36.480 --> 0:21:40.240
<v Speaker 2>that was made. And in this case, the minister's word

0:21:40.280 --> 0:21:43.119
<v Speaker 2>should be final. The minister should have every opportunity to

0:21:43.119 --> 0:21:45.720
<v Speaker 2>say sorry, power out you go. If you want to

0:21:45.720 --> 0:21:47.800
<v Speaker 2>go and apply for a visa on the other side

0:21:47.800 --> 0:21:48.800
<v Speaker 2>of the world, good luck to you.

0:21:49.680 --> 0:21:51.440
<v Speaker 1>I play the ditchery, dude, please.

0:21:54.520 --> 0:21:57.520
<v Speaker 2>Now, it is very rare in the news that you

0:21:57.640 --> 0:22:01.199
<v Speaker 2>see like a slow train coming to towards you, a

0:22:01.440 --> 0:22:05.760
<v Speaker 2>massive world event. Now normally with things like a terrorist

0:22:05.800 --> 0:22:09.920
<v Speaker 2>attack or a natural disaster, it starts as breaking news,

0:22:10.000 --> 0:22:12.280
<v Speaker 2>one line, something you've never heard of, something you didn't

0:22:12.280 --> 0:22:14.480
<v Speaker 2>think of, it just happened, and then of course our

0:22:14.520 --> 0:22:18.800
<v Speaker 2>news becomes dominated by it for weeks and times. History

0:22:19.600 --> 0:22:23.560
<v Speaker 2>is written by those events. But there are sometimes events

0:22:23.560 --> 0:22:25.880
<v Speaker 2>that you do see coming and you know are going

0:22:25.920 --> 0:22:28.879
<v Speaker 2>to be calamitous. You know we're going to be impactful

0:22:28.960 --> 0:22:31.280
<v Speaker 2>rather than calamitus, I should say, like the death of

0:22:31.359 --> 0:22:31.960
<v Speaker 2>Queen Elizabeth.

0:22:32.000 --> 0:22:32.840
<v Speaker 1>We all knew it was coming.

0:22:32.920 --> 0:22:35.600
<v Speaker 2>Everyone had a level of planning in and around how

0:22:35.600 --> 0:22:39.520
<v Speaker 2>that news event would work. And we are now coming

0:22:39.520 --> 0:22:44.320
<v Speaker 2>to that moment when the trial of Donald Trump this

0:22:44.400 --> 0:22:48.880
<v Speaker 2>week is going to move to the jury phase, where

0:22:48.880 --> 0:22:53.720
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't matter anymore about the mugshots, It doesn't matter

0:22:53.760 --> 0:22:56.880
<v Speaker 2>anymore about the what's said inside the court. It doesn't

0:22:56.920 --> 0:22:59.280
<v Speaker 2>matter what the porn star says, it doesn't matter what

0:22:59.440 --> 0:23:01.600
<v Speaker 2>the form a lawyer who admitted.

0:23:01.200 --> 0:23:03.040
<v Speaker 1>To stealing from Trump says.

0:23:04.000 --> 0:23:06.200
<v Speaker 2>It comes down to twelve people who will decide whether

0:23:06.240 --> 0:23:08.159
<v Speaker 2>a president of the United States, a former president of

0:23:08.160 --> 0:23:11.200
<v Speaker 2>the United States, is going to be found guilty of

0:23:11.240 --> 0:23:13.560
<v Speaker 2>a crime, and a crime that could result in.

0:23:13.560 --> 0:23:14.919
<v Speaker 1>Being sent to jail.

0:23:17.520 --> 0:23:20.240
<v Speaker 2>Now again, I have spent many sleepless nights and I

0:23:20.240 --> 0:23:23.080
<v Speaker 2>will again tonight watching every little incremental moment.

0:23:22.840 --> 0:23:23.480
<v Speaker 1>Of this trial.

0:23:23.640 --> 0:23:26.840
<v Speaker 2>And yes, of course, as somebody who would much prefer

0:23:26.920 --> 0:23:28.960
<v Speaker 2>Donald Trump to be the next president than Joe Biden,

0:23:29.000 --> 0:23:31.040
<v Speaker 2>you can say, well, of course, you're just cherry picking

0:23:31.040 --> 0:23:31.600
<v Speaker 2>the information.

0:23:31.760 --> 0:23:33.760
<v Speaker 1>No, I think if you actually look at this thing,

0:23:34.560 --> 0:23:35.160
<v Speaker 1>that there's.

0:23:34.960 --> 0:23:37.439
<v Speaker 2>A lot of noise and a lot of smoke, and

0:23:37.480 --> 0:23:40.040
<v Speaker 2>some dots that are really close together. But I don't

0:23:40.040 --> 0:23:41.960
<v Speaker 2>believe that they have been pushed together or they have

0:23:42.040 --> 0:23:47.480
<v Speaker 2>been joined. They have not proven that Donald Trump knowingly

0:23:49.480 --> 0:23:51.920
<v Speaker 2>knew how the Trump organization was going to write down

0:23:51.960 --> 0:23:55.000
<v Speaker 2>the payments to Stormy Daniels instead. All of the coverage

0:23:55.040 --> 0:23:57.680
<v Speaker 2>is about, well, clearly the money was for storming, That's

0:23:57.720 --> 0:24:00.320
<v Speaker 2>not the point. It's about how it was written down

0:24:00.440 --> 0:24:04.080
<v Speaker 2>in the accounting ledgers of the Trump organization. And there

0:24:04.160 --> 0:24:08.800
<v Speaker 2>is one person who could have come forward and said

0:24:08.960 --> 0:24:11.520
<v Speaker 2>Trump told me write it down as a legal expense,

0:24:11.560 --> 0:24:14.280
<v Speaker 2>and he knew it was an illegal expense, by the

0:24:14.359 --> 0:24:19.200
<v Speaker 2>name of Alan Weiselberg. Alan Weiselberg was the financial boss

0:24:19.200 --> 0:24:23.960
<v Speaker 2>of the Trump organization, and he was not called to testify.

0:24:24.080 --> 0:24:26.280
<v Speaker 2>Let me read from the New York Times, believe it

0:24:26.359 --> 0:24:31.040
<v Speaker 2>or not about why. In closing arguments on Tuesday, mister

0:24:31.040 --> 0:24:33.600
<v Speaker 2>Trump's lawyers are expected to cast mister Weiselberg as the

0:24:33.600 --> 0:24:36.480
<v Speaker 2>prosecution's missing peace, an elusive central.

0:24:36.119 --> 0:24:38.919
<v Speaker 1>Player in the case. They will likely try to argue

0:24:39.040 --> 0:24:40.600
<v Speaker 1>to the jury that the case.

0:24:40.440 --> 0:24:44.639
<v Speaker 2>Depends on mister Cohen, whose testimony provided the only evidence

0:24:44.640 --> 0:24:46.760
<v Speaker 2>that mister Trump had direct knowledge of the plot to

0:24:46.800 --> 0:24:50.920
<v Speaker 2>disguise the hush money reimbursement as legal fees. I'll jump

0:24:50.960 --> 0:24:53.240
<v Speaker 2>out of the Times for a second him, and obviously,

0:24:53.400 --> 0:24:55.960
<v Speaker 2>if you're paying attention to what was being said, he

0:24:56.000 --> 0:24:58.399
<v Speaker 2>admitted that he's lied in every other place. But please

0:24:58.440 --> 0:25:01.679
<v Speaker 2>believe me now, he admitted to stealing money from the

0:25:01.840 --> 0:25:06.200
<v Speaker 2>very payments because he wanted a bonus. Yet he was

0:25:06.240 --> 0:25:09.000
<v Speaker 2>still ultra loyal and carrying out the evil work of

0:25:09.080 --> 0:25:12.320
<v Speaker 2>Donald Trump. All Right, the closest the prosecution can get

0:25:12.400 --> 0:25:16.960
<v Speaker 2>is Cohen. No one, even a Trump hater, could believe

0:25:17.000 --> 0:25:20.040
<v Speaker 2>what Cohen was saying. You can't be lying nine times

0:25:20.080 --> 0:25:22.280
<v Speaker 2>out of ten, but that one time he's absolutely telling

0:25:22.320 --> 0:25:24.320
<v Speaker 2>the truth, when, by the way, he's admitted to lying

0:25:24.359 --> 0:25:30.280
<v Speaker 2>previously in legal proceedings. Okay, so this bloke, Alan Weisselberg

0:25:30.359 --> 0:25:32.560
<v Speaker 2>is the only guy. If the prosecution could flip him,

0:25:32.560 --> 0:25:34.480
<v Speaker 2>if they could prove Trump knew what was going on,

0:25:34.520 --> 0:25:38.040
<v Speaker 2>then banged case over guilty, guilty, guilty, We continue. A

0:25:38.040 --> 0:25:41.000
<v Speaker 2>New York Times examination, based on court records and interviews

0:25:41.080 --> 0:25:43.280
<v Speaker 2>with a dozen people close to the case, explains that

0:25:43.320 --> 0:25:47.920
<v Speaker 2>mister Weisselberg's absence and reveals a portrait of him as

0:25:47.920 --> 0:25:51.800
<v Speaker 2>a company man who had a hand in some of

0:25:51.840 --> 0:25:55.800
<v Speaker 2>mister Trump's shadiest dealings. Okay, still doesn't prove anything. He

0:25:55.880 --> 0:25:59.000
<v Speaker 2>could have traded his knowledge for freedom because he's currently

0:25:59.040 --> 0:26:01.400
<v Speaker 2>in jail, by the way, but he's decided to keep

0:26:01.400 --> 0:26:04.720
<v Speaker 2>his mouth shut. Instead, he signed a multi million dollar

0:26:04.760 --> 0:26:07.760
<v Speaker 2>severance deal which basically said I'll never say anything bad

0:26:07.760 --> 0:26:10.800
<v Speaker 2>about Trump. He signed that, now, of course, he would

0:26:10.800 --> 0:26:12.600
<v Speaker 2>have been able to the prosecution, would have said, dont worry

0:26:12.640 --> 0:26:14.119
<v Speaker 2>about all. That will give you the protection. You can

0:26:14.119 --> 0:26:15.760
<v Speaker 2>come and say whatever you want, sing like a bird.

0:26:16.200 --> 0:26:20.040
<v Speaker 2>But he's not doing it now he's in jail. He

0:26:20.080 --> 0:26:23.440
<v Speaker 2>could get out of jail early, but he won't do it.

0:26:24.320 --> 0:26:27.199
<v Speaker 2>He's the only one who can actually prove the case.

0:26:27.560 --> 0:26:29.040
<v Speaker 2>The rest of it is all lots of noise and

0:26:29.040 --> 0:26:33.520
<v Speaker 2>pushing dots as close together. But anyone who knows how

0:26:33.520 --> 0:26:35.720
<v Speaker 2>these things works knows you can't push the dots together

0:26:35.800 --> 0:26:39.720
<v Speaker 2>unless they're actually connected last one. For years, the Manhattan

0:26:39.760 --> 0:26:44.000
<v Speaker 2>District Attorney's office had sought to turn mister Weselberg against

0:26:44.080 --> 0:26:47.320
<v Speaker 2>his boss. When he refused, prosecutors indicted him, so they

0:26:47.320 --> 0:26:49.920
<v Speaker 2>sent him to jar because he wouldn't turn on them,

0:26:50.800 --> 0:26:53.120
<v Speaker 2>And he still won't turn on him even though he's

0:26:53.119 --> 0:26:58.880
<v Speaker 2>in jail. So ultimately decision was made by the prosecution. No,

0:27:00.119 --> 0:27:02.720
<v Speaker 2>they will not bring him to the stand now the

0:27:02.760 --> 0:27:06.520
<v Speaker 2>defense did neither. But this is going to be the

0:27:06.560 --> 0:27:13.400
<v Speaker 2>central focus of closing arguments. And tonight at about eleven

0:27:13.520 --> 0:27:16.000
<v Speaker 2>thirty Eastern time is when they start to make their

0:27:16.040 --> 0:27:20.480
<v Speaker 2>way into the court. The defense will give its closing arguments,

0:27:21.400 --> 0:27:24.399
<v Speaker 2>then the prosecution will give its closing arguments. That's the

0:27:24.400 --> 0:27:27.199
<v Speaker 2>way that it works for all state based trials in

0:27:27.240 --> 0:27:30.360
<v Speaker 2>New York. Nothing different about it, I think, specific when

0:27:30.359 --> 0:27:36.320
<v Speaker 2>it comes to Trump. And then perhaps as early as tonight,

0:27:36.680 --> 0:27:41.840
<v Speaker 2>while you are sleeping, the jury will start its deliberations.

0:27:42.880 --> 0:27:46.679
<v Speaker 2>Could be slammed unk guilty, could be fifty to fifty,

0:27:47.800 --> 0:27:50.879
<v Speaker 2>could be one person who says are not really And

0:27:50.920 --> 0:27:52.680
<v Speaker 2>that process drags on for a while, and if it

0:27:52.720 --> 0:27:55.000
<v Speaker 2>continues to drag on, there would ultimately be a mistrial,

0:27:55.080 --> 0:27:56.919
<v Speaker 2>and that's not innocent. It would just mean we go

0:27:56.960 --> 0:27:59.640
<v Speaker 2>around again. But of course that won't happen before November.

0:27:59.640 --> 0:28:04.640
<v Speaker 2>And but if he is found guilty, perhaps as soon

0:28:04.840 --> 0:28:09.080
<v Speaker 2>as a quick deliberation tonight or by this time in

0:28:09.119 --> 0:28:12.560
<v Speaker 2>a couple of days time, think of that as a

0:28:12.600 --> 0:28:15.760
<v Speaker 2>news story, that train coming towards you. Of something that

0:28:16.600 --> 0:28:22.920
<v Speaker 2>people will learn about in generations to come. So make

0:28:22.960 --> 0:28:26.320
<v Speaker 2>sure that you are front and center tomorrow morning, first

0:28:26.440 --> 0:28:29.639
<v Speaker 2>edition here on Sky News, and Pete Stefanovic and Ales

0:28:29.720 --> 0:28:32.080
<v Speaker 2>Nielson and everyone else is across everything we're doing in America,

0:28:32.119 --> 0:28:34.560
<v Speaker 2>will bring you the very latest information. But literally there

0:28:34.640 --> 0:28:39.360
<v Speaker 2>is a chance quick summation from the defense, quick summation

0:28:39.560 --> 0:28:43.400
<v Speaker 2>from prosecution, quick decision from a jury. He could be

0:28:43.400 --> 0:28:46.400
<v Speaker 2>found guilty by the time we wake up tomorrow, and

0:28:46.440 --> 0:28:49.680
<v Speaker 2>this judge who hates him could decide to sentence him

0:28:49.840 --> 0:28:51.600
<v Speaker 2>in a couple of weeks. But until he gets sentenced

0:28:51.720 --> 0:28:55.160
<v Speaker 2>off to jail, that's how much could happen tonight or

0:28:55.200 --> 0:28:59.400
<v Speaker 2>tomorrow or the day after. But it's definitely happening this week.

0:29:00.160 --> 0:29:02.360
<v Speaker 2>Meghan Kelly will join us tomorrow night to discuss all

0:29:02.440 --> 0:29:05.760
<v Speaker 2>of that, and it's going to be huge, all right,

0:29:05.800 --> 0:29:08.120
<v Speaker 2>quick break back with more, plenty of debate, plenty to discuss,

0:29:08.160 --> 0:29:09.960
<v Speaker 2>plenty to fire up about in a moment of two's

0:29:09.960 --> 0:29:12.120
<v Speaker 2>time here on Paul Murray Live. It is a strange feeling,

0:29:12.160 --> 0:29:13.960
<v Speaker 2>isn't it when as opposed to big news.

0:29:14.040 --> 0:29:16.000
<v Speaker 1>Jeez, did you hear? You can see it coming?

0:29:16.040 --> 0:29:17.920
<v Speaker 2>It's why I wanted to explain it to you, and

0:29:17.960 --> 0:29:20.840
<v Speaker 2>why the one bloke who could prove or disprove the case,

0:29:20.880 --> 0:29:23.360
<v Speaker 2>for some reason is not giving evidence at all.

0:29:24.160 --> 0:29:25.480
<v Speaker 1>It's going to be an amazing time.

0:29:25.480 --> 0:29:27.400
<v Speaker 2>The start a debate about a lot of other stuff

0:29:27.800 --> 0:29:29.480
<v Speaker 2>in a moment of two's time here and a reminder,

0:29:29.520 --> 0:29:31.760
<v Speaker 2>Josh Fridenberg's going to be on the late debate tonight.

0:29:31.560 --> 0:29:34.120
<v Speaker 1>After that exceptional bit of Telly a bit earlier this sevening,

0:29:39.480 --> 0:29:40.240
<v Speaker 1>thank you so much.

0:29:40.280 --> 0:29:43.760
<v Speaker 2>The host of the US Report Outsiders and now different

0:29:43.800 --> 0:29:46.480
<v Speaker 2>from the Daily Telegraph, none another than my fellow cigar

0:29:47.520 --> 0:29:48.520
<v Speaker 2>accidental user.

0:29:48.720 --> 0:29:51.360
<v Speaker 1>None of that in the wonderful changemorrow. I'm just terrible.

0:29:51.400 --> 0:29:53.360
<v Speaker 1>Don't do it. It's evil, It's awful. I slipped and

0:29:53.360 --> 0:29:54.200
<v Speaker 1>fell out a roboosto.

0:29:56.400 --> 0:30:02.560
<v Speaker 2>I can't Oh sorry, boss, all right Lydia Scott, who

0:30:02.560 --> 0:30:05.840
<v Speaker 2>was of course representing a local government at national Cabinet.

0:30:05.880 --> 0:30:08.520
<v Speaker 2>She's a counselor on the City of Sydney Council. Oh

0:30:08.560 --> 0:30:10.320
<v Speaker 2>we'll get to clover more in a moment or two times.

0:30:10.320 --> 0:30:12.000
<v Speaker 2>But she's in Melbourne right now because you know, she

0:30:12.080 --> 0:30:13.960
<v Speaker 2>just wanted to feel the lefty love and I understand.

0:30:14.320 --> 0:30:17.840
<v Speaker 2>So let's talk about a couple of things here. I

0:30:17.920 --> 0:30:22.400
<v Speaker 2>think that the conversation in and around hate laws, which

0:30:23.120 --> 0:30:26.560
<v Speaker 2>supposedly are about trying to go after forms of antisemitism,

0:30:27.040 --> 0:30:29.360
<v Speaker 2>all the rest of it. But when you actually look

0:30:29.360 --> 0:30:32.040
<v Speaker 2>at who's been negotiating some of this stuff, it seems

0:30:32.080 --> 0:30:34.080
<v Speaker 2>like it's going to be used as a trojan horse

0:30:34.480 --> 0:30:37.120
<v Speaker 2>for vilification laws that have existed in Victoria for a

0:30:37.120 --> 0:30:41.320
<v Speaker 2>couple of years, very lefty, very punitive. But also there's

0:30:41.320 --> 0:30:45.239
<v Speaker 2>the religious discrimination stuff where today they were negotiating, but

0:30:45.440 --> 0:30:48.320
<v Speaker 2>basically Michauliacash just went up and out and walked out

0:30:48.320 --> 0:30:49.280
<v Speaker 2>of the negotiations.

0:30:49.320 --> 0:30:50.840
<v Speaker 1>What have you heard more about this job?

0:30:51.000 --> 0:30:52.840
<v Speaker 11>Yeah, look, I mean this is all very dramatic, but

0:30:52.920 --> 0:30:56.520
<v Speaker 11>apparently things got so heated with Mark Dreyfus, the Attorney General,

0:30:56.560 --> 0:31:00.440
<v Speaker 11>and Dreyfus was apparently, from the reports, you know, was

0:31:00.480 --> 0:31:03.240
<v Speaker 11>not exactly you know, chivalrous and polite show I say

0:31:03.280 --> 0:31:05.160
<v Speaker 11>in this meeting, and I think we would all say

0:31:05.160 --> 0:31:07.920
<v Speaker 11>that Mark Crafis has been a form on this on

0:31:07.960 --> 0:31:13.200
<v Speaker 11>this sort of issue, and michelay Cash quite credit to

0:31:13.240 --> 0:31:14.640
<v Speaker 11>you know, I'm not going to take the same I'm

0:31:14.680 --> 0:31:16.720
<v Speaker 11>not going to copy it and left now. I mean

0:31:16.920 --> 0:31:21.920
<v Speaker 11>these religious rule laws are really disturbing because you know,

0:31:22.080 --> 0:31:24.200
<v Speaker 11>when you twin them with what you're talking about. Where

0:31:24.240 --> 0:31:27.480
<v Speaker 11>I think you're going with the speech and the vilification

0:31:27.680 --> 0:31:31.920
<v Speaker 11>thing is is that both of them seem like efforts

0:31:31.960 --> 0:31:36.880
<v Speaker 11>to limit people's freedom of speech and association. And while

0:31:36.880 --> 0:31:41.840
<v Speaker 11>we absolutely want to crack down on anti Semitism, and

0:31:42.040 --> 0:31:46.800
<v Speaker 11>John Fried an excellent job tonight with that, an amazing,

0:31:46.880 --> 0:31:51.040
<v Speaker 11>amazing job on that tonight, but let's just be really

0:31:51.080 --> 0:31:54.120
<v Speaker 11>really clear here that you have to be very careful

0:31:54.120 --> 0:31:58.240
<v Speaker 11>about making any law to restrict something a that could

0:31:58.280 --> 0:32:02.280
<v Speaker 11>be used and turned around to do something be that

0:32:02.320 --> 0:32:03.480
<v Speaker 11>you might not be so happy about.

0:32:03.480 --> 0:32:06.320
<v Speaker 2>Well, also, don't forget you know, Dreyfus himself. And remember

0:32:06.360 --> 0:32:09.160
<v Speaker 2>the way this government does its negotiating is basically our

0:32:09.160 --> 0:32:12.600
<v Speaker 2>way or the highway. We won't show you the documents.

0:32:12.920 --> 0:32:14.640
<v Speaker 2>If we do show you the documents, you're not allowed

0:32:14.640 --> 0:32:17.480
<v Speaker 2>to tell anyone about the documents, and then the legislation

0:32:17.600 --> 0:32:20.280
<v Speaker 2>just turns up in the Parliament. Again, no one likes

0:32:20.280 --> 0:32:22.680
<v Speaker 2>seeing how the sausage is made, and this particular sausage

0:32:22.800 --> 0:32:25.800
<v Speaker 2>not great. Linda, Again, this is always a really difficult

0:32:25.800 --> 0:32:28.400
<v Speaker 2>conversation to have because the easiest thing to turn around

0:32:28.440 --> 0:32:30.760
<v Speaker 2>and say, here is Paul Murray, how can you dare

0:32:30.800 --> 0:32:35.160
<v Speaker 2>fight for greater opportunities for people to be hateful? I don't,

0:32:35.440 --> 0:32:37.520
<v Speaker 2>but we've got a whole bunch of legislation that exists

0:32:37.520 --> 0:32:40.840
<v Speaker 2>about discrimination in the country, about defamation in the country.

0:32:40.880 --> 0:32:43.240
<v Speaker 1>There's all of that absolutely clear, right.

0:32:44.080 --> 0:32:47.200
<v Speaker 2>But what's your sense when government starts to get into

0:32:47.240 --> 0:32:49.880
<v Speaker 2>this new area where okay, they might be being pushed

0:32:49.880 --> 0:32:53.240
<v Speaker 2>by one group, but then it ends up affecting a

0:32:53.360 --> 0:32:55.440
<v Speaker 2>lot more groups and it ends up in the general

0:32:55.480 --> 0:32:58.360
<v Speaker 2>public in a very different place than they thought this

0:32:58.400 --> 0:32:59.240
<v Speaker 2>conversation was.

0:32:59.200 --> 0:32:59.560
<v Speaker 1>Going to go.

0:33:01.960 --> 0:33:05.680
<v Speaker 12>I think, Paul, that we can be very conspiratorial about

0:33:05.720 --> 0:33:09.040
<v Speaker 12>these stories about what's happening in Parliament. But what's important

0:33:09.040 --> 0:33:11.360
<v Speaker 12>when we're thinking about hate speech is to bring it

0:33:11.400 --> 0:33:12.840
<v Speaker 12>back to what it looks.

0:33:12.680 --> 0:33:14.120
<v Speaker 5>Like in people's lives.

0:33:14.160 --> 0:33:16.520
<v Speaker 12>And that's what, of course we have to do in

0:33:16.800 --> 0:33:20.400
<v Speaker 12>local government in the city of Sydney right now, sadly,

0:33:20.520 --> 0:33:25.040
<v Speaker 12>on a regular basis, I'm getting reports of graffiti that

0:33:25.200 --> 0:33:30.120
<v Speaker 12>is so hateful, it is so awful. Of course I'm

0:33:30.160 --> 0:33:33.680
<v Speaker 12>not going to repeat it on television, but it is

0:33:33.960 --> 0:33:37.560
<v Speaker 12>the kind of thing that whomever you show it to agrees.

0:33:37.840 --> 0:33:40.720
<v Speaker 12>We don't want that up on a public wall under

0:33:40.720 --> 0:33:41.800
<v Speaker 12>any circumstances.

0:33:41.840 --> 0:33:44.920
<v Speaker 5>This is not what Sydney or Australia is about.

0:33:45.400 --> 0:33:47.800
<v Speaker 12>And I think we can all agree that that is

0:33:47.880 --> 0:33:51.080
<v Speaker 12>the kind of hate speech when it's in the public

0:33:51.120 --> 0:33:52.680
<v Speaker 12>domain or when it's said.

0:33:53.000 --> 0:33:55.040
<v Speaker 5>Can cause harm to people.

0:33:55.280 --> 0:33:58.160
<v Speaker 12>It can cause hurt and damage, and that is the

0:33:58.280 --> 0:34:02.240
<v Speaker 12>kind of thing that should be allowed. Now we are

0:34:02.400 --> 0:34:05.880
<v Speaker 12>at a particular historical moment globally where there is a

0:34:05.960 --> 0:34:08.359
<v Speaker 12>lot of division, a lot of unrest, and we're seeing that,

0:34:08.520 --> 0:34:14.680
<v Speaker 12>unfortunately also play out in hate towards particular groups in Australia.

0:34:14.760 --> 0:34:15.799
<v Speaker 5>That's awful, that's wrong.

0:34:15.840 --> 0:34:18.719
<v Speaker 12>We should come together as Australians and condemn that, and

0:34:18.760 --> 0:34:21.799
<v Speaker 12>we should try to find a set of laws that

0:34:22.080 --> 0:34:26.440
<v Speaker 12>ensure that Australia can continue to be the rich, wonderful,

0:34:26.719 --> 0:34:30.279
<v Speaker 12>multicultural place that it is. So I don't think there's

0:34:30.400 --> 0:34:34.960
<v Speaker 12>disagreement about what hate speech is that it should.

0:34:34.719 --> 0:34:35.560
<v Speaker 5>Not be allowed.

0:34:35.920 --> 0:34:39.080
<v Speaker 12>But what we do need is the opposition to come

0:34:39.120 --> 0:34:42.720
<v Speaker 12>together with the government and find a bill that people

0:34:42.760 --> 0:34:46.600
<v Speaker 12>can agree on and to stop arguing, to stop debating.

0:34:46.760 --> 0:34:49.040
<v Speaker 12>I've obviously put forward this proposition in the City of

0:34:49.040 --> 0:34:50.200
<v Speaker 12>Sydney to try and have.

0:34:50.360 --> 0:34:52.880
<v Speaker 5>Hate speech graffiti removed within an hour.

0:34:53.560 --> 0:34:57.040
<v Speaker 12>The Lord Mayor voted that proposition down, but they're doing

0:34:57.080 --> 0:34:59.640
<v Speaker 12>it with Nicholas Reese and Sally cap in the city

0:34:59.640 --> 0:35:00.000
<v Speaker 12>of Melbour.

0:35:00.320 --> 0:35:01.520
<v Speaker 5>It's a great idea.

0:35:02.200 --> 0:35:05.879
<v Speaker 12>These are the things that local governments can unite, so

0:35:05.960 --> 0:35:07.680
<v Speaker 12>too should our parliamentarians.

0:35:07.960 --> 0:35:08.920
<v Speaker 1>And I'm cool with all of that.

0:35:10.480 --> 0:35:12.360
<v Speaker 2>The pin I want to put in the chat, the

0:35:12.440 --> 0:35:14.920
<v Speaker 2>little sort of underline in the conversation about just the

0:35:15.080 --> 0:35:19.120
<v Speaker 2>asterisk about what we're getting ourselves in for here is

0:35:19.160 --> 0:35:21.600
<v Speaker 2>that James, a lot of people have seen things like

0:35:21.680 --> 0:35:29.040
<v Speaker 2>silence is violence, or criticism or observation is vilification, and

0:35:29.080 --> 0:35:31.600
<v Speaker 2>that's hate speech. And that's what I'm talking about here,

0:35:31.600 --> 0:35:33.400
<v Speaker 2>which is again I want to create None of us.

0:35:33.440 --> 0:35:35.239
<v Speaker 2>Do there anyone who's about to run off to the

0:35:35.320 --> 0:35:37.840
<v Speaker 2>umpire right. None of us are trying to find ways

0:35:37.880 --> 0:35:41.279
<v Speaker 2>for hate to still live. But when the modern interpretation

0:35:41.440 --> 0:35:45.120
<v Speaker 2>can be some of the nuttiest definitions from the worst

0:35:45.160 --> 0:35:48.480
<v Speaker 2>of the activists, I'm concerned if they're the ones that

0:35:48.560 --> 0:35:49.520
<v Speaker 2>get to write the rules.

0:35:49.680 --> 0:35:52.920
<v Speaker 11>Well, the thing that concerns me is, you know, obviously,

0:35:53.080 --> 0:35:57.960
<v Speaker 11>you know, people grafiting horrible things on the walls. Absolutely,

0:35:58.000 --> 0:36:00.560
<v Speaker 11>that should be taken down in twenty seconds flat. There's

0:36:00.680 --> 0:36:03.200
<v Speaker 11>just there's no question about that. You don't have that society.

0:36:03.320 --> 0:36:08.520
<v Speaker 11>But we're not talking about anonymous criminal vandals, hatefully tagging

0:36:08.520 --> 0:36:12.800
<v Speaker 11>a wall. We're talking about you know, individuals discussing sometimes

0:36:12.840 --> 0:36:15.680
<v Speaker 11>and talking about things. And there has to be a clear,

0:36:15.719 --> 0:36:19.360
<v Speaker 11>I think distinction here, Linda, between the question of what

0:36:19.520 --> 0:36:22.320
<v Speaker 11>is hate speech you know, that might make somebody feel uncomfortable,

0:36:22.320 --> 0:36:25.680
<v Speaker 11>and what might be inciting. And I think the real

0:36:26.280 --> 0:36:31.040
<v Speaker 11>issue here is about incitement. Is it going to incite hate?

0:36:31.160 --> 0:36:33.279
<v Speaker 11>Is it going to incite people to go and do

0:36:33.360 --> 0:36:35.640
<v Speaker 11>something bad. It's what we talk about in America in

0:36:35.680 --> 0:36:38.120
<v Speaker 11>our tradition where I come from, you know, shouting fire

0:36:38.200 --> 0:36:41.160
<v Speaker 11>in a crowded theater, you know, this is the This

0:36:41.280 --> 0:36:43.719
<v Speaker 11>is I think we need to be really careful because,

0:36:43.760 --> 0:36:46.480
<v Speaker 11>as Paul I think correctly said, here, you get these

0:36:46.520 --> 0:36:51.520
<v Speaker 11>situations where activists will weaponize, you know, hurt feelings, and

0:36:51.560 --> 0:36:55.080
<v Speaker 11>then suddenly the way you have conversations in this country

0:36:55.120 --> 0:36:58.840
<v Speaker 11>becomes very limited, and it will become more limited because

0:36:58.880 --> 0:37:02.440
<v Speaker 11>of course, so much of this eighty seventis we're talking

0:37:02.440 --> 0:37:05.759
<v Speaker 11>about comes from some communities and if we can't talk

0:37:05.800 --> 0:37:07.640
<v Speaker 11>about that, then we're nowhere.

0:37:07.680 --> 0:37:11.120
<v Speaker 2>Well also, also we're in this scenario nowhere where we're

0:37:11.120 --> 0:37:12.480
<v Speaker 2>discussing this on multiple fronts.

0:37:12.560 --> 0:37:14.040
<v Speaker 1>Right, misinformation.

0:37:14.280 --> 0:37:17.280
<v Speaker 2>Right, You've seen how that term has become this cudgel

0:37:17.360 --> 0:37:18.920
<v Speaker 2>for the left to be able to go after and

0:37:19.000 --> 0:37:20.799
<v Speaker 2>eventually I want to censor the Internet from it.

0:37:20.920 --> 0:37:21.120
<v Speaker 1>Right.

0:37:21.560 --> 0:37:23.600
<v Speaker 2>I just think that all of these things are all

0:37:23.600 --> 0:37:25.840
<v Speaker 2>going to point in one direction and everyone's going to

0:37:25.880 --> 0:37:27.319
<v Speaker 2>wake up and be all annoyed about it.

0:37:27.320 --> 0:37:30.560
<v Speaker 1>It's being debated. Now, let me just be a very

0:37:30.640 --> 0:37:31.120
<v Speaker 1>quick point on that.

0:37:31.200 --> 0:37:32.520
<v Speaker 11>You know, the other week we had this whole thing

0:37:32.560 --> 0:37:36.240
<v Speaker 11>in Western Sydney where a library band a book about

0:37:36.320 --> 0:37:39.319
<v Speaker 11>same sex parents, right, And what was really interesting to

0:37:39.360 --> 0:37:41.680
<v Speaker 11>me was that was I don't think they should have either.

0:37:41.800 --> 0:37:44.719
<v Speaker 11>But what was really interesting is the band was arguing

0:37:44.719 --> 0:37:48.240
<v Speaker 11>against not on the base of free speech, but because

0:37:48.320 --> 0:37:51.279
<v Speaker 11>it might hurt some people's feelings. And the key is,

0:37:51.360 --> 0:37:53.799
<v Speaker 11>I think you need to in these things, have the

0:37:53.840 --> 0:37:57.520
<v Speaker 11>first principles be about the free speech, not about the

0:37:57.600 --> 0:37:58.120
<v Speaker 11>hurt feeling.

0:37:58.200 --> 0:38:01.120
<v Speaker 2>No agree, all right, So, extending on from what I

0:38:01.200 --> 0:38:03.440
<v Speaker 2>said at the start of the show about those moments

0:38:03.480 --> 0:38:08.040
<v Speaker 2>when history is coming towards you, and it's been moving

0:38:08.040 --> 0:38:09.279
<v Speaker 2>slowly and then it's very quick.

0:38:09.320 --> 0:38:10.759
<v Speaker 1>And that's where we are right now with the Donald

0:38:10.760 --> 0:38:11.360
<v Speaker 1>Trump trial.

0:38:11.640 --> 0:38:14.839
<v Speaker 2>Linda, obviously you know fan of the president, but let's

0:38:14.880 --> 0:38:17.720
<v Speaker 2>just acknowledge this moment, right whether it is the fitted

0:38:17.800 --> 0:38:21.320
<v Speaker 2>up trial or somebody being held to account. Closing arguments,

0:38:21.360 --> 0:38:22.759
<v Speaker 2>they'll take a couple of hours and then we're off

0:38:22.760 --> 0:38:24.360
<v Speaker 2>to a jury room. If they're going to make a

0:38:24.360 --> 0:38:26.719
<v Speaker 2>decision quickly one way or the other. By the time

0:38:26.760 --> 0:38:30.279
<v Speaker 2>we wake up tomorrow a president of the United States, well,

0:38:30.280 --> 0:38:33.279
<v Speaker 2>adjudication will have been made potentially in a court if

0:38:33.320 --> 0:38:35.759
<v Speaker 2>not a day later, if not a day later, But

0:38:35.840 --> 0:38:38.719
<v Speaker 2>we are there right now, no more debating, no more.

0:38:38.760 --> 0:38:42.920
<v Speaker 2>Did you see the mugshot guilty, not guilty, hung jury

0:38:43.480 --> 0:38:46.840
<v Speaker 2>this week? How do you feel about this moment in time?

0:38:48.600 --> 0:38:51.840
<v Speaker 12>Look, there's no doubt it is historically significant to see

0:38:52.000 --> 0:38:56.760
<v Speaker 12>an American president and potentially a future American president on trial,

0:38:56.880 --> 0:39:00.920
<v Speaker 12>and so just being hours away from a possible deliberation

0:39:01.280 --> 0:39:01.920
<v Speaker 12>is of course a.

0:39:02.000 --> 0:39:03.440
<v Speaker 5>Very significant moment.

0:39:03.800 --> 0:39:07.360
<v Speaker 12>I think also, I know you've discussed this at length, Paul,

0:39:07.880 --> 0:39:11.520
<v Speaker 12>is just the possibility of a hung trial. What that means,

0:39:11.600 --> 0:39:14.120
<v Speaker 12>you know, there really are so many outcomes that we

0:39:14.160 --> 0:39:16.640
<v Speaker 12>could see where there's any.

0:39:16.560 --> 0:39:18.120
<v Speaker 5>Division, it's a hung trial.

0:39:18.239 --> 0:39:21.200
<v Speaker 12>You know, that delay over the next few months, and

0:39:21.239 --> 0:39:24.399
<v Speaker 12>what that means, for example, in the outcome of this

0:39:24.520 --> 0:39:27.719
<v Speaker 12>year's presidential election in the United States. You know, this

0:39:27.880 --> 0:39:32.880
<v Speaker 12>is just absolutely an incredibly historic event. I also think,

0:39:32.920 --> 0:39:35.719
<v Speaker 12>and I will continue to call it this out that

0:39:35.880 --> 0:39:41.600
<v Speaker 12>former President Trump's behavior during the trial has been really remarkable.

0:39:41.640 --> 0:39:42.200
<v Speaker 5>You know, his.

0:39:42.280 --> 0:39:48.520
<v Speaker 12>Ability to continue to have commentary about the trial, continue

0:39:48.520 --> 0:39:51.160
<v Speaker 12>to be admonished by the judge about this, you know,

0:39:51.480 --> 0:39:56.160
<v Speaker 12>just some absolutely remarkable behavior from Donald Trump as the

0:39:56.200 --> 0:40:00.399
<v Speaker 12>defendant in the face of the criminal justice system. It's

0:40:00.440 --> 0:40:04.200
<v Speaker 12>so fascinating to me to see how American electors will

0:40:04.560 --> 0:40:07.520
<v Speaker 12>judge his behavior with respect to the prospect of him

0:40:08.160 --> 0:40:11.279
<v Speaker 12>potentially running again for the US presidency.

0:40:11.480 --> 0:40:13.239
<v Speaker 2>That's true, but James, and again, we could spend the

0:40:13.239 --> 0:40:15.160
<v Speaker 2>rest of the show on this, the behavior of the

0:40:15.320 --> 0:40:18.919
<v Speaker 2>judge where literally the jury was never sequested, which means

0:40:18.960 --> 0:40:21.160
<v Speaker 2>they can sit there and watch things in the court

0:40:21.200 --> 0:40:23.640
<v Speaker 2>and then watch MSNBC at night to be told why

0:40:23.719 --> 0:40:28.480
<v Speaker 2>the prosecution has made its case. The delay in closing

0:40:29.440 --> 0:40:32.120
<v Speaker 2>closing arguments was pushed off for a few more days

0:40:32.320 --> 0:40:35.320
<v Speaker 2>meaning again they marinate in in amongst a pretty anti

0:40:35.360 --> 0:40:39.719
<v Speaker 2>Trump populace. I understand that after closing arguments, they are off,

0:40:39.760 --> 0:40:41.960
<v Speaker 2>they locked in the hotel and they make their decisions

0:40:42.000 --> 0:40:44.319
<v Speaker 2>from there. But just again, as a bloke who would

0:40:44.360 --> 0:40:46.360
<v Speaker 2>like to see Trump as the next president, no doubt,

0:40:47.000 --> 0:40:48.840
<v Speaker 2>I mean, this is no more maybes.

0:40:49.239 --> 0:40:51.839
<v Speaker 1>This week we find out, well this week we find out.

0:40:51.840 --> 0:40:54.160
<v Speaker 11>But I mean, you know what we've seen here over

0:40:54.200 --> 0:40:57.120
<v Speaker 11>and over again is that these attempts to play Garcha

0:40:57.400 --> 0:41:00.440
<v Speaker 11>with Trump. You know, and I'm sorry, Lindina, Oh, he

0:41:00.600 --> 0:41:03.239
<v Speaker 11>was badly behaved. He tweeted about the case.

0:41:03.239 --> 0:41:03.680
<v Speaker 1>Who cares?

0:41:03.719 --> 0:41:07.000
<v Speaker 11>Nobody cares because the fact is, this whole trial is

0:41:07.040 --> 0:41:09.440
<v Speaker 11>a stitchump. It's been coordinating the timing of it with

0:41:09.480 --> 0:41:12.239
<v Speaker 11>these other trials which have been falling apart through the

0:41:12.280 --> 0:41:14.839
<v Speaker 11>White House. I'm sorry it has happened that way. And

0:41:15.440 --> 0:41:17.879
<v Speaker 11>you know, the idea that people are going to hold

0:41:17.880 --> 0:41:21.440
<v Speaker 11>it against him for you know, signing a non disclosure

0:41:21.440 --> 0:41:25.360
<v Speaker 11>agreement and oh the bookkeeping wasn't done right. Hillary Clinton

0:41:25.800 --> 0:41:29.120
<v Speaker 11>paid a fine for you know, paying for the steel

0:41:29.160 --> 0:41:33.080
<v Speaker 11>doarsier which actually accused Trump of being a Russian agent.

0:41:33.200 --> 0:41:36.680
<v Speaker 11>That's a lot more serious. He destroyed evidence well with

0:41:36.760 --> 0:41:39.719
<v Speaker 11>a cloth, with a cloth Pollion know, and so this

0:41:40.000 --> 0:41:40.920
<v Speaker 11>thing is a nonsense.

0:41:40.920 --> 0:41:42.600
<v Speaker 5>It's ridiculous.

0:41:42.800 --> 0:41:44.839
<v Speaker 1>It's not I ever had.

0:41:45.040 --> 0:41:48.799
<v Speaker 12>Honestly, Donald Trump has been accused of so many crimes.

0:41:49.200 --> 0:41:51.400
<v Speaker 11>A trial that we're talking about right now.

0:41:51.440 --> 0:41:56.040
<v Speaker 12>He's legitimately being trialed in the United States in front

0:41:56.120 --> 0:41:59.040
<v Speaker 12>of a legitimate case that has been found by a

0:41:59.080 --> 0:42:01.880
<v Speaker 12>court to be able to be perceived. I don't think, sorry,

0:42:02.080 --> 0:42:05.319
<v Speaker 12>this constice system into question here.

0:42:05.760 --> 0:42:09.600
<v Speaker 11>This case has no one has ever been charged with

0:42:09.719 --> 0:42:12.840
<v Speaker 11>this book keeping offense. Nobody has ever know this is

0:42:12.880 --> 0:42:15.719
<v Speaker 11>a misdemeanor that they spun together with a bunch of

0:42:15.719 --> 0:42:19.000
<v Speaker 11>others and then use that to con cact this idea

0:42:19.360 --> 0:42:20.960
<v Speaker 11>that it was a felony.

0:42:20.600 --> 0:42:23.759
<v Speaker 1>To enforce federal law, which he's already been exonerated.

0:42:23.200 --> 0:42:26.560
<v Speaker 11>In exactly right. So I mean this is legally everybody

0:42:26.680 --> 0:42:28.440
<v Speaker 11>is seeing. This is legally novel.

0:42:28.600 --> 0:42:31.080
<v Speaker 2>But my point, lind at which I will probably end

0:42:31.160 --> 0:42:33.239
<v Speaker 2>up agreeing with you here on which is I think

0:42:33.320 --> 0:42:36.200
<v Speaker 2>all of us have seen plenty of major failures of

0:42:36.200 --> 0:42:40.840
<v Speaker 2>the American legal system in many states, many years, many races.

0:42:40.520 --> 0:42:41.360
<v Speaker 1>Many cases.

0:42:42.040 --> 0:42:44.319
<v Speaker 2>So again, when everyone just sort of leans in one

0:42:44.360 --> 0:42:47.520
<v Speaker 2>direction to get somebody into the dock, and then they

0:42:47.560 --> 0:42:49.480
<v Speaker 2>present the case in a certain fashion.

0:42:49.680 --> 0:42:50.880
<v Speaker 1>It leads to a certain result.

0:42:50.880 --> 0:42:52.840
<v Speaker 2>We've seen that in lots of other things, and I

0:42:52.840 --> 0:42:55.200
<v Speaker 2>think that's what's happening here. But we will discuss more

0:42:55.239 --> 0:42:57.480
<v Speaker 2>as it all comes through again, details through the night,

0:42:57.640 --> 0:42:59.279
<v Speaker 2>and then again Petter Stephan, I think in the morning,

0:42:59.320 --> 0:43:01.640
<v Speaker 2>quick break back here on Paul Murray Live. Let's keep

0:43:01.640 --> 0:43:04.759
<v Speaker 2>the debate going plenty more before Josh Bridenberg joins the

0:43:04.800 --> 0:43:09.560
<v Speaker 2>Lake Debate in fourteen minutes from now.

0:43:12.120 --> 0:43:12.200
<v Speaker 3>Now.

0:43:12.239 --> 0:43:13.640
<v Speaker 2>I've been mentioning all light because I want you to

0:43:13.640 --> 0:43:15.640
<v Speaker 2>stick around. I want you to watch it. Josh Fridenberg

0:43:15.719 --> 0:43:17.440
<v Speaker 2>on the Late Debate a couple of minutes after his

0:43:17.719 --> 0:43:22.359
<v Speaker 2>spectacular documentary. Congratulations everyone involved in putting it together. It's

0:43:22.400 --> 0:43:25.080
<v Speaker 2>an amazing piece of television which you can see right

0:43:25.080 --> 0:43:26.960
<v Speaker 2>now at sky news dot com. That you sign up

0:43:26.960 --> 0:43:29.799
<v Speaker 2>for the sky News app, which just five bucks a month,

0:43:29.880 --> 0:43:31.359
<v Speaker 2>is how you can do that, and it's a great

0:43:31.360 --> 0:43:33.280
<v Speaker 2>way of being able to carry sky News in your pocket,

0:43:33.400 --> 0:43:34.920
<v Speaker 2>spread it around to your friends, all the rest of

0:43:34.920 --> 0:43:38.920
<v Speaker 2>it right follow that QR code because also extended interviews

0:43:38.920 --> 0:43:41.480
<v Speaker 2>with a lot of people, including a pretty surprising Julia Gillard.

0:43:41.480 --> 0:43:42.880
<v Speaker 1>I won't lie her.

0:43:42.760 --> 0:43:46.239
<v Speaker 2>Position about anti Semitism. It is a very moving bit

0:43:46.280 --> 0:43:50.480
<v Speaker 2>of television. Please download the app. You do that by

0:43:50.960 --> 0:43:53.040
<v Speaker 2>pausing the telly right now, take a photo of that

0:43:53.120 --> 0:43:55.680
<v Speaker 2>QR code. Well remember QR codes, and it'll take you

0:43:55.680 --> 0:43:57.000
<v Speaker 2>where you need to go. And then josh up in

0:43:57.000 --> 0:43:59.160
<v Speaker 2>a few minutes time. In the meantime, here with the

0:43:59.360 --> 0:44:01.400
<v Speaker 2>James Morrow, who loves QR codes.

0:44:01.440 --> 0:44:03.320
<v Speaker 1>I mean you've got so familiar with it.

0:44:03.400 --> 0:44:04.120
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, oh yeah.

0:44:04.160 --> 0:44:05.279
<v Speaker 1>And Linda Scott no, I did.

0:44:08.120 --> 0:44:10.440
<v Speaker 2>And Linda Scott who went putting around the city of

0:44:10.440 --> 0:44:12.840
<v Speaker 2>Sydney for a while. And I'll get to make clover

0:44:12.920 --> 0:44:15.360
<v Speaker 2>more in a moment. But ed Husy the industry minister.

0:44:15.440 --> 0:44:19.080
<v Speaker 2>He says the company tax is potentially something that could

0:44:19.160 --> 0:44:21.880
<v Speaker 2>change under this government as a way of firing up investment.

0:44:22.280 --> 0:44:25.960
<v Speaker 1>Now, great, hallelujah.

0:44:26.200 --> 0:44:28.239
<v Speaker 2>I would think that company tax should be a little

0:44:28.239 --> 0:44:32.040
<v Speaker 2>closer to Singapore than it is currently to Canada. But

0:44:32.160 --> 0:44:35.520
<v Speaker 2>James again, interesting that the industry ministers openly talking about it,

0:44:35.560 --> 0:44:38.839
<v Speaker 2>which means tomorrow the Treasurer gets asked a question and

0:44:38.880 --> 0:44:41.920
<v Speaker 2>the Treasurer will either swack the idea out of the

0:44:41.920 --> 0:44:44.320
<v Speaker 2>way or they will show a little bit of ankle

0:44:44.440 --> 0:44:46.000
<v Speaker 2>and maybe company tax gets cut.

0:44:46.160 --> 0:44:48.160
<v Speaker 11>No, they just swack that one out of all. There's

0:44:48.160 --> 0:44:49.440
<v Speaker 11>no way they go to cut cut COVID tax. They

0:44:49.440 --> 0:44:51.560
<v Speaker 11>should cut coveany tax. They should cut income tax. They

0:44:51.560 --> 0:44:54.200
<v Speaker 11>should change the level of which income taxcott. Sydney pay

0:44:54.400 --> 0:44:58.400
<v Speaker 11>insane rates of tax and it drives investment away. But

0:44:58.480 --> 0:45:02.120
<v Speaker 11>also it also drives productive people out of the country.

0:45:02.960 --> 0:45:05.839
<v Speaker 2>So my suggestion is I'm one of these loans who

0:45:05.920 --> 0:45:09.760
<v Speaker 2>thinks massive drop in income tax, increase in the GST

0:45:09.960 --> 0:45:12.400
<v Speaker 2>and some of the compensation for people in and around it,

0:45:12.680 --> 0:45:14.439
<v Speaker 2>that's the way for government. But of course the reason

0:45:14.440 --> 0:45:16.440
<v Speaker 2>federal governments won't do it is because all the GST

0:45:16.520 --> 0:45:19.400
<v Speaker 2>money goes to states. So that's why they keep putting

0:45:19.440 --> 0:45:24.000
<v Speaker 2>up taxes like petrol and booze and cigarettes and you know,

0:45:24.160 --> 0:45:27.520
<v Speaker 2>all that really durable stuff. Now let's talk Linda about

0:45:27.520 --> 0:45:29.799
<v Speaker 2>a political opponent, but Clover Moore, she's been the Lord

0:45:29.840 --> 0:45:31.760
<v Speaker 2>Mayor of Sydney for twenty years. She would like another

0:45:31.800 --> 0:45:35.120
<v Speaker 2>four years in the job for very obvious reasons. I

0:45:35.120 --> 0:45:37.120
<v Speaker 2>would love to see you in that job because I

0:45:37.160 --> 0:45:39.120
<v Speaker 2>think you've got way more common sense than she does,

0:45:39.160 --> 0:45:43.000
<v Speaker 2>and I particularly think that your advocacy for all parts

0:45:43.160 --> 0:45:45.680
<v Speaker 2>of a pretty diverse city, I think would be amazing

0:45:45.719 --> 0:45:47.960
<v Speaker 2>to see you get business and you get the lefties

0:45:48.000 --> 0:45:49.120
<v Speaker 2>in new Town.

0:45:50.080 --> 0:45:51.000
<v Speaker 1>But give me an idea.

0:45:51.080 --> 0:45:55.120
<v Speaker 2>You see her up close, all right, she says, she's

0:45:55.160 --> 0:45:56.560
<v Speaker 2>invigorated all the rest of it.

0:45:57.080 --> 0:45:58.360
<v Speaker 1>Twenty years at the top.

0:45:59.080 --> 0:46:01.400
<v Speaker 2>Is she really the top of a game after twenty

0:46:01.640 --> 0:46:03.040
<v Speaker 2>years running a city?

0:46:05.280 --> 0:46:07.960
<v Speaker 12>Well, look, here's the choice that Sydney Siders are faced

0:46:08.000 --> 0:46:11.360
<v Speaker 12>in this September's local government elections in the City of Sydney.

0:46:11.640 --> 0:46:14.000
<v Speaker 12>The Lord Mayor Clovermore has been in office for forty

0:46:14.000 --> 0:46:17.080
<v Speaker 12>four years twenty as City of Sydney Lord Mayor. And

0:46:17.160 --> 0:46:19.640
<v Speaker 12>let's look at what Sydney looks like now. It is,

0:46:19.680 --> 0:46:21.000
<v Speaker 12>of course the best city in the world.

0:46:21.080 --> 0:46:21.920
<v Speaker 5>But what do we have.

0:46:22.040 --> 0:46:27.520
<v Speaker 12>We have parks closed off for months with deadly contaminated asbestos,

0:46:27.600 --> 0:46:29.200
<v Speaker 12>literally parks boarded up.

0:46:29.120 --> 0:46:30.279
<v Speaker 5>So you can't get in.

0:46:30.640 --> 0:46:35.960
<v Speaker 12>We've got Oxford Street, our glittering global diamond that should

0:46:36.000 --> 0:46:39.160
<v Speaker 12>be showcased to the world, with city owned properties that

0:46:39.200 --> 0:46:42.600
<v Speaker 12>have been boarded up for years, with construction delays, not

0:46:42.640 --> 0:46:45.560
<v Speaker 12>open to the public, and other private businesses around their

0:46:46.280 --> 0:46:49.799
<v Speaker 12>shut Marti Gras concerned about how best to proceed to

0:46:49.840 --> 0:46:51.080
<v Speaker 12>be financially.

0:46:50.640 --> 0:46:53.719
<v Speaker 5>Viable as street smells again.

0:46:53.560 --> 0:46:56.200
<v Speaker 12>For years of places like Oxford Street. You know, is

0:46:56.239 --> 0:46:59.840
<v Speaker 12>this the kind of future that Sydney siders want? Well,

0:47:00.360 --> 0:47:04.680
<v Speaker 12>A slow and steady decline. Further, is what Sydney siders

0:47:04.680 --> 0:47:09.640
<v Speaker 12>will get if they support Clovermore for another term this September.

0:47:10.120 --> 0:47:11.319
<v Speaker 5>That's their choice.

0:47:11.440 --> 0:47:14.200
<v Speaker 12>But I think it is very difficult for her at

0:47:14.200 --> 0:47:17.720
<v Speaker 12>this time to ask, after forty four years in office,

0:47:17.840 --> 0:47:21.880
<v Speaker 12>twenty as Sydney's Lord Mayor, to ask the people, on

0:47:21.920 --> 0:47:25.640
<v Speaker 12>the basis of her record to support her again. And

0:47:25.719 --> 0:47:28.200
<v Speaker 12>let's just be clear about the city's financial position.

0:47:28.640 --> 0:47:31.000
<v Speaker 5>We've got a really tough.

0:47:30.840 --> 0:47:33.880
<v Speaker 12>Set of cost of living pressures in Sydney, of course,

0:47:34.200 --> 0:47:35.440
<v Speaker 12>right across the world right.

0:47:35.280 --> 0:47:36.920
<v Speaker 5>Now, but particularly in Sydney.

0:47:36.960 --> 0:47:42.279
<v Speaker 12>We've got affordable housing almost invisible in Sydney, such a challenge.

0:47:42.440 --> 0:47:44.880
<v Speaker 12>And yet the City of Sydney has three quarters of

0:47:44.880 --> 0:47:48.600
<v Speaker 12>a billion dollars in cash in the bank and a

0:47:48.640 --> 0:47:52.040
<v Speaker 12>budget coming back to council next week next month, sorry,

0:47:52.080 --> 0:47:53.000
<v Speaker 12>with almost.

0:47:52.640 --> 0:47:55.279
<v Speaker 5>No cost of living relief. You know, these are the.

0:47:55.320 --> 0:48:00.640
<v Speaker 12>Kinds of perverse economic settings that she has governed now.

0:48:00.520 --> 0:48:02.520
<v Speaker 5>For twenty years. In the city of Sydney.

0:48:02.640 --> 0:48:06.360
<v Speaker 12>It's just quite wrongheaded and riders are calling out for change.

0:48:06.440 --> 0:48:08.680
<v Speaker 2>Okay, now we've got the campaign here, right, you've heard

0:48:08.680 --> 0:48:13.560
<v Speaker 2>a maga. Right, what about Misska So make Sydney great again?

0:48:13.680 --> 0:48:16.480
<v Speaker 2>You don't go for the red hat, rainbow hats, rainbow hats?

0:48:16.800 --> 0:48:18.000
<v Speaker 2>MSG eight, What do you reckon?

0:48:18.040 --> 0:48:18.640
<v Speaker 1>Are you going to do it?

0:48:18.680 --> 0:48:22.359
<v Speaker 11>I reckon, Linda, here's your winning campaign slogan, rip up

0:48:22.520 --> 0:48:25.840
<v Speaker 11>the bike leads, all the bike leads in Sydney.

0:48:25.960 --> 0:48:26.760
<v Speaker 1>You want to know why.

0:48:26.640 --> 0:48:29.360
<v Speaker 11>Shot on the border name because nobody can drive.

0:48:32.280 --> 0:48:33.839
<v Speaker 5>To the border lane.

0:48:33.920 --> 0:48:35.600
<v Speaker 2>I love you both, Thank you, We're done. That's our

0:48:35.600 --> 0:48:37.279
<v Speaker 2>show for tonight. Thank you very much for watching. Josh

0:48:37.320 --> 0:48:38.560
<v Speaker 2>Brodenberg standing by for.

0:48:38.520 --> 0:48:40.480
<v Speaker 1>The late debate Megan Kelly tomorrow night.

0:48:40.520 --> 0:48:44.160
<v Speaker 2>And could we be talking about a jury making its

0:48:44.239 --> 0:48:46.640
<v Speaker 2>decision on Donald Trump closing.

0:48:46.320 --> 0:48:48.960
<v Speaker 1>Arguments That takes a couple of hours and then what

0:48:49.000 --> 0:48:49.560
<v Speaker 1>are they going to do?

0:48:49.600 --> 0:48:53.480
<v Speaker 2>We'll all find out together tomorrow