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Speaker 1: Approte, production, what did you done think of you when

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Speaker 1: you in your latter years, when you were coming out

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Speaker 1: of jail and he's seen how bad you were like

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Speaker 1: as as an addict.

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Speaker 2: My whole man hated two things. Hated junkies, hated tatoos. Wow,

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Speaker 2: it said my body. Yes, I said, he hated you know.

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Speaker 2: My biggest issue was that I was trying to make

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Speaker 2: him pay. I think, in retrospect, is.

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Speaker 3: It truly shot you or try.

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Speaker 2: To shoot me? For slam in the front door. He

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Speaker 2: shot at me twice with the forty five.

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Speaker 3: Wow. Yeah, man.

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Speaker 2: He was sexually abusing my sister. You know, he's a

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Speaker 2: fucking piece of shit. You know, my sister had a

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Speaker 2: child to him. My stepsister had a child to my father.

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Speaker 2: People wondered why I hated him so much, you know,

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Speaker 2: but I didn't find that out until I was fifteen

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Speaker 2: or sixteen. I never used her until I was nineteen.

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Speaker 2: My mom passed away in March. My mom passed away,

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Speaker 2: and I was using heroin by May. My mom never

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Speaker 2: seen me as a junkie, which was really nice. And

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Speaker 2: I was so scared of him, That's very truth. I

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Speaker 2: asked mom if I could kill him when I was fourteen.

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Speaker 2: I said, when he comes home, I'm going to blow

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Speaker 2: his head off. My mom didn't say, I don't kill

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Speaker 2: your dad. She said he's not worth going to jar for.

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Speaker 2: Well about years later, did you ever want to do it?

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Speaker 2: Years later when you knew that you were a bit

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Speaker 2: more Yeah? No, years later I watched him die slowly.

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Speaker 3: It was even better.

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Speaker 2: Sounds horrible, but he ended up with nothing. He ended

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Speaker 2: up living in a shith house out of the back

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Speaker 2: of Kenley veil. The paint falling off the wall, the

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Speaker 2: hot water system was blown up and they're boiling jugs of.

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Speaker 3: Someone who was so high up.

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Speaker 2: It just ended up with nothing, and watching him die

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Speaker 2: like that, it's going to sound horrible. I can only

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Speaker 2: tell you made I can't come on here and tell

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Speaker 2: you bullshit.

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Speaker 3: I had more. I'm not enjoyment. Was it more satisfaction?

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Speaker 2: More satisfaction watching him die like that, like died with

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Speaker 2: nothing enough to do it.

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Speaker 3: But you know, you can sit back on just watch it.

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Speaker 2: And as mum said, he wasn't worth you know, taking

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Speaker 2: your life. I think it's a pretty big deal. I

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Speaker 2: think you have to have to learn to live with

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Speaker 2: I've been unfortunate enough to live with a lot of

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Speaker 2: murderers and hang out with a lot of murderers. And

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Speaker 2: you know, and even the ones that we're murderers, murders,

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Speaker 2: murders that like doing the murders, and that they still

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Speaker 2: they're still I don't give a fuck what they say.

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Speaker 2: They're still not comfortable with themselves. Mate, They're still not

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Speaker 2: comfortable with themselves. They're still not I don't believe. You know,

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Speaker 2: we are human beings where males. I don't care who

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Speaker 2: you serve. We all serve somebody. We all have this

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Speaker 2: thing like you've got to pay the piper. You know,

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Speaker 2: we all got to pay the piper one day. There's

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Speaker 2: always going to be a And as I said, you know,

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Speaker 2: I've been to jail with a lot of murderers. You know,

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Speaker 2: like I don't know why, because I was doing eighteen year.

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Speaker 2: So you associate with people that are doing big lagons.

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Speaker 2: And even before that, because of my bullshit gangster pass,

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Speaker 2: that's who you attracted to the other gangsters. So you

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Speaker 2: all nick together. You know, all the frauds hang together

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Speaker 2: over here. All the fuger and pedophiles are going into

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Speaker 2: their section, you know, and you know, you sort of

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Speaker 2: attract like attracts like you know, and my crew was

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Speaker 2: always the murderers, doing big lagons, guys that were very

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Speaker 2: anti system. We trained really hard, and people thought we

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Speaker 2: trained hard to protect yourself from each other. We didn't

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Speaker 2: protect yourself from each other. We'll protecting austrass from the system.

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Speaker 2: Because when the screws comes flying in the door with

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Speaker 2: their fucking Batman Robin out fits on Batman, you and

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Speaker 2: you know you had to be fit and healthy.

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Speaker 3: You think, you know that's that would happen.

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Speaker 2: You know, they just kicked the door out at four

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Speaker 2: o'clock in the morning, running bash and throw in the

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Speaker 2: van and you end up with gold. What the fuck

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Speaker 2: are we doing in gold? But you know I've got

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Speaker 2: no visitors. And they do that, then you might in gold.

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Speaker 2: But what they used to do, oh, it's terrific. Russ

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Speaker 2: used to bang his head around about it sometimes and

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Speaker 2: under stripped.

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Speaker 3: What do you call it? O C D.

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Speaker 2: I'm obsessively compulsive, and everything's got to be spotless, of man.

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Speaker 2: You know, in my wardrobe, my clothes go from black

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Speaker 2: white blue. They do all my clothes and all my

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Speaker 2: shirts are folded, and everything's imacally he's got to be

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Speaker 2: like that. My cars are always clean. You never see

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Speaker 2: my car dirty. It's never, never dirty, never. And if

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Speaker 2: I go into the rain, I came over, I hose

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Speaker 2: the cardown. You know, it's just there's something you might

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Speaker 2: make up. What the screws would do. They'd put me

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Speaker 2: into a cell, and I would fucking scrub that cell

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Speaker 2: all night. I'd scrub it. I'd get so, i'd get

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Speaker 2: soap and I'd scrub every bit of the cell. Two

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Speaker 2: days later they move in or another cell.

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Speaker 3: Fuck. That was their game. That was their game.

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Speaker 2: They'd just done it to me for so many times

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Speaker 2: because they knew that I couldn't cope with it, because

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Speaker 2: you had to cell blakes to pick their nails and

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Speaker 2: put the shiver and there pisted on the walls, and

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Speaker 2: you know, I've got to sleep in there because you're tall,

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Speaker 2: and your beside to bed, you know, and it's a

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Speaker 2: master it's got a bunk. If you know I can't

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Speaker 2: live in that. You know, today I run my companies

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Speaker 2: the same way as I cleaned that cell.

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Speaker 3: Thoroughly.

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Speaker 2: I do things very thoroughly. I'm consistent, I'm reliable, I'm accepting,

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Speaker 2: I'm honest. You know, I respectful. I respect myself. I

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Speaker 2: won't disrespect myself by cheating on my wife. Sounds funny.

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Speaker 2: If I'm hanging out with guys in business these days

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Speaker 2: and they cheat on their wives, I won't do business

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Speaker 2: with them. And they go why, I say, well, if

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Speaker 2: you cheat on who, what are you going to do

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Speaker 2: to me? If you're cheating on the person's the mother,

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Speaker 2: your children, the person you spend all your time with,

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Speaker 2: what the fuck are you going to do to me?

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Speaker 2: So I've got this incredible and it's really hard. My

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Speaker 2: wife says, we honey, you expectations you're too high. And

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Speaker 2: I say, well, I'm not going to lower them. I'd

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Speaker 2: rather have less friends, you know. And I'm an ex junkie.

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Speaker 2: I say, I'd rather have a gram of pure than

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Speaker 2: a kilo shit. And it's the same with friendships, It's

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Speaker 2: the same with business partners, it's the same with any relationship.

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Speaker 2: I want to be able to look you in the

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Speaker 2: eye and say, hell, I made how brother? Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: feel it, you know, like fucking I want people to

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Speaker 2: come with us, man. I don't want to be bigger

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Speaker 2: and better than anyone. I was all to grow together.

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Speaker 2: That was one of my downfalls that I thought people

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Speaker 2: thought the same as I did and they didn't. And

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Speaker 2: there was one of my downfall as a kid. I

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Speaker 2: believed in that I wrote a book, you know that

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Speaker 2: I meant to bring it down. I'll send it to you.

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Speaker 2: I actually had it out and I signed it to

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Speaker 2: you and everything I fucking left in the cupboard. It's

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Speaker 2: called Born into the Lie of crime. It's called it

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Speaker 2: says life l I f E and I blacked the

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Speaker 2: f out and it just says born to the lie

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Speaker 2: of crime.

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Speaker 3: Because we thought it was a life. It was just

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Speaker 3: a lie. There was no loyalty, there was no trust,

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Speaker 3: there's no you know.

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Speaker 2: I don't know about you, you know, but you came up

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Speaker 2: the Cross after I finished up there, and mate, there's

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Speaker 2: some horrific proople up there in the old days, you know,

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Speaker 2: some of the club owners were horrific. Yeah, there's some

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Speaker 2: nasty pizza work up there. Just morally, I didn't taken

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Speaker 2: me wrong. I was no saint, but you know, I

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Speaker 2: still had certain principles where I didn't want to see

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Speaker 2: people being exploited, especially weak people. I've always had that

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Speaker 2: want to save people and wanted to help people, even

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Speaker 2: when I was a bloody drug bill and I still

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Speaker 2: wanted to help people. I just I don't know. I

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Speaker 2: have a good heart, that's the truth. I have a

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Speaker 2: good heart and I have.

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Speaker 3: A But usually the ones who have the good heart

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Speaker 3: are the ones who get fucked over.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know. I don't know if you

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Speaker 2: ever met Peter, Kay? Did you hear about Pete? He

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Speaker 2: was Billy Bayo's partner at the end. But I knew

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Speaker 2: Peter before he ever took drugs. He was just something

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Speaker 2: like a twenty four year old guy driving a Ferrari

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Speaker 2: and a rolls rice. He ain't the Cosmopolitan. Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 2: he ain't the Cosmo. He ain't one who I knew

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Speaker 2: it before he took drugs. He was just a really

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Speaker 2: good operator restaurant I rade, a Greek boy, lovely guy.

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Speaker 2: And then I seen him get on the cot and

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Speaker 2: I just you ended by killing himself, hung himself in jail,

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Speaker 2: you know, And I just seen people. That's why I

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Speaker 2: hate drugs now. I've just seen so many good people

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Speaker 2: just fucking destroy their lives. And I didn't you know,

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Speaker 2: we haven't even touched on that thing called ice. That's

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Speaker 2: just another one. Al together that's the dead, that's the

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Speaker 2: devil's drug. Whoever the devil is, I'll tell you about

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Speaker 2: it is. I know drugs smugglers and drug dealers that

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Speaker 2: won't even bring into the country, you know, the old guys,

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Speaker 2: the old school guys, they won't bring into the country

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Speaker 2: because they say, it's just such a fucking gum dragon,

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Speaker 2: you know. And these guys would sell their grandmother for

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Speaker 2: fucking for a penny, but they won't even deal with that.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: That's how horrible it is. And when I meet somebody

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Speaker 2: these days, because I because I work in drug and

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Speaker 2: alco and try to help people on that soon as

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Speaker 2: I meet them, I say, you an ice head.

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Speaker 3: You know that?

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Speaker 2: And I have a look at you your frieds. Do

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Speaker 2: you know havn't used for twelve months and they're still fried?

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Speaker 2: You know, they're still It's sad. I'm scared of watching it.

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Speaker 2: What's coming? But do you think called fentanyl coming, that's

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Speaker 2: going to be something that we that we've never seen

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Speaker 2: this that likes of you put on a pin head

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Speaker 2: and a kildure so strong. That's just killing America right now.

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Speaker 2: And we follow America's trends. We have all the times.

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Speaker 2: We've always fow America's trends, you know, and I hope

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Speaker 2: to God that the system doesn't get it. We are

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Speaker 2: never going to stop importations while there's a demand. So

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Speaker 2: what we have to do is take away the demand.

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Speaker 2: We do that by having people learning how to get

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Speaker 2: off dope, because if there's no fucking druggies, why would

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Speaker 2: you bring it in? You don't have to be your

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Speaker 2: storage share. They say, to get pinched, better storage shared,

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean. So we have to get

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Speaker 2: more money into the education to help people to get

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Speaker 2: clean and work at what's causing the people to get

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Speaker 2: why people using it starts off is fun for some

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Speaker 2: of us, but most of us starts off is to

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Speaker 2: kill a pain. Yeah, because we have trauma, depression, depression trauma.

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Speaker 2: Where did the trauma come from? We have to start

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Speaker 2: treating the trauma. We have to start looking at why

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Speaker 2: people use, not what they use, what the use is, irrelevance,

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Speaker 2: why they use. And that's what we have to start

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Speaker 2: as a society. Take away the demand, take away the

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Speaker 2: demands the drug dealers that go away, or and this

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Speaker 2: is going to sound even crazier, fucking legalize it.

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Speaker 3: Take the crime out of it because it's not fun.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Even half the fun for me was getting the trip,

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Speaker 2: was been sneaking. He's getting away with it.

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Speaker 3: You know. I'm a naughty boy. I'm fucking fuck you.

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Speaker 3: You know. That's honestly. Part of the part of me

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Speaker 3: with crime was puck you. I've got away from this.

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Speaker 3: You know, I'm smarter than you are.

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Speaker 2: But as a copper said to me, and I will

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Speaker 2: hear it till the day I die, You've only got

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Speaker 2: to make one mistake. He's sitting on my background and

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Speaker 2: they just raided my house. They got nothing, and there's

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Speaker 2: a whole federal task force and they usually come with

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Speaker 2: the SWAT team because of my commissions, and do the

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Speaker 2: arrest in them.

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Speaker 3: After the SWAT team believe in the cops come and

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Speaker 3: he said, do you believe in karma? I said I do.

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Speaker 2: Actually, he said, fucking You've only got to make my mistake,

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Speaker 2: and so I'll be there. I said, I fuck off, dickhead,

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Speaker 2: you know, And that's you know, and not saying my

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Speaker 2: daughter is born the next day. That's why I know,

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Speaker 2: zach Date. You know, my little girl, she's twenty eight

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Speaker 2: now twenty nine this year you know, fucking you, fuck off, dickhead.

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Speaker 2: Four years later, I'm handcuffed in the back of a

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Speaker 2: van thinking fucking Calma, fucking.

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Speaker 3: Calm, he got me, you know, And yeah, say, you know,

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Speaker 3: karma is a good thing.

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Speaker 2: But as long as you're doing good things, and I

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Speaker 2: say people all the time, if you do good things,

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Speaker 2: good things come back.

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Speaker 3: I'm massive believer in you know,