1 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:07,880 Adam Lang: Welcome to One on one by Fear and Greed. I'm 2 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:11,520 Adam Lang: Adam Lang. My guest today is Ian Rodgers with part 3 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:14,159 Adam Lang: two of his one on one interview. Ian is a 4 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:17,079 Adam Lang: fascinating pioneer who has worked with some of the most 5 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:20,640 Adam Lang: famous brands on Earth. In the first part of the interview, 6 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:23,239 Adam Lang: we talked about his time with Beastieboys dot Com in 7 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:26,320 Adam Lang: the nineties and how he helped launch Beats Music and 8 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:29,440 Adam Lang: Apple Music. In the second part of the interview, we 9 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:35,360 Adam Lang: delve into his time in digital transformation at Luxury Giant LVMH, 10 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:38,640 Adam Lang: as well as his current role as Chief Experience Officer 11 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:41,920 Adam Lang: and board member at Ledger, the world's largest maker of 12 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:45,880 Adam Lang: cryptocurrency hardware wallets. I hope you enjoy this second part 13 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:52,600 Adam Lang: of the interview with Ian Rogers. Ian, in the first 14 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:54,400 Adam Lang: part of this interview, as you know, I took a 15 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:58,400 Adam Lang: bit of poetic license and used Beastie Boys hits and 16 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:02,320 Adam Lang: their titles to frame each question, and this one is 17 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:06,000 Adam Lang: rooted down at LVMH. You're inside the world's most famous 18 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:08,640 Adam Lang: luxury brands. You've talked about some of that. What does 19 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:12,880 Adam Lang: luxury teach about building and protecting brand value that you 20 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:15,160 Adam Lang: think every business leader could understand better? 21 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:21,560 Ian Rogers: Yes, when I first got to LVMH, they told me 22 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:24,319 Ian Rogers: they take a one hundred year time horizon when they 23 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:28,000 Ian Rogers: think about their brands. And honestly, I laughed out loud 24 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:30,360 Ian Rogers: because I thought it was a joke. You know, I 25 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:33,600 Ian Rogers: come from a startup world where you know, six months 26 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:34,120 Ian Rogers: is the time horizon. 27 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:35,040 Adam Lang: One hundred days! 28 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:41,400 Ian Rogers: Yeah, exactly. And but they are serious because the brand 29 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:46,720 Ian Rogers: is the asset and you have to think long term. 30 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:49,240 Ian Rogers: There was another saying there, which is, you know that 31 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:54,080 Ian Rogers: the employees take an oath against short term revenue because 32 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:56,920 Ian Rogers: when you when you prioritise short term revenue, you are 33 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:01,440 Ian Rogers: by definition selling out the long term revenue. You know, 34 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:03,520 Ian Rogers: you're kind of hoping for the You're you're kind of 35 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:05,720 Ian Rogers: admitting that the long term revenue is your relevant because 36 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:08,760 Ian Rogers: you're not sure if you'll still alive that long. And 37 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:12,040 Ian Rogers: you know, But but for them, they they make They 38 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:15,400 Ian Rogers: made many decisions which are counterintuitive, whether it was like 39 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:17,640 Ian Rogers: the amount of money that they were investing in stores 40 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:20,360 Ian Rogers: at the time when people said that stores were were 41 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:24,440 Ian Rogers: a dead end, or simply you know, buying an operating Sephora. 42 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:28,160 Ian Rogers: You know, you can point to one hundred things that 43 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:31,720 Ian Rogers: that the street thought was counterintuitive for LVMH, but they 44 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:34,359 Ian Rogers: fit the thesis. And I think part of that thesis 45 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:37,560 Ian Rogers: is that you do not need to appeal to everyone. 46 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:42,280 Ian Rogers: And I think that's why LVMH is such a modern business, 47 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:45,120 Ian Rogers: because I think that, you know, attempting to appeal to 48 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:48,600 Ian Rogers: everyone in the era of the Internet is a losing battle. 49 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:51,440 Ian Rogers: And that's I think that you know, what we have 50 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:54,240 Ian Rogers: is you have to look at the underlying things about 51 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:57,519 Ian Rogers: how culture is moving and then don't try to swim 52 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:00,800 Ian Rogers: against that stream, swim with it. Uh, you know, so 53 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:03,720 Ian Rogers: we have what I The reason that I went to 54 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:07,000 Ian Rogers: LVMH is because fundamentally, I believe that the Internet is 55 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:11,040 Ian Rogers: moving us from mass market to massive niche, and it's 56 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:15,800 Ian Rogers: moving us from a world where marketing is hyper efficient 57 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:18,400 Ian Rogers: to a world where quality is hyper efficient. The reason 58 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:22,720 Ian Rogers: is because as consumers, we have unlimited choice, and we 59 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:26,520 Ian Rogers: can drift to the brand that's at the mall or 60 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:29,680 Ian Rogers: the brand that we find on Instagram, which is you know, 61 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:32,680 Ian Rogers: tailor you know, which is really targeted directly to us. 62 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:35,080 Ian Rogers: And so you know, to do that, you have to 63 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:38,400 Ian Rogers: be something that a consumer would recommend to another consumer, 64 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:41,720 Ian Rogers: and that's you know, and that's what you have with 65 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:45,880 Ian Rogers: with these luxury brands. They have built cultures that have 66 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:49,920 Ian Rogers: deep meaning, you know, heritage that's built over you know, 67 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:55,280 Ian Rogers: decades at least, and and then they have built communities 68 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:59,119 Ian Rogers: that will that that have meaning. And when I wear 69 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:03,160 Ian Rogers: a brand, I'm not only you know, clothing myself. I'm 70 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:07,400 Ian Rogers: actually communicating meaning and culture. And that's what you have 71 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:09,440 Ian Rogers: to do. And that takes a long time, you know, 72 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:13,360 Ian Rogers: by by definition, you know. And again, watching a brand 73 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:19,000 Ian Rogers: like Satisfy or Mischief build this is illustrative because it's 74 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:21,880 Ian Rogers: one thing to have built this ninety years ago, it's 75 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:25,719 Ian Rogers: another thing to build it in today's internet climate. 76 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:30,040 Adam Lang: I heard you talk about LVMH and learning storytelling plus 77 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:33,719 Adam Lang: time equals value and another statement you made culture comes 78 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:37,679 Adam Lang: towards you over time. Both of those involve patients time. 79 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:41,799 Adam Lang: As you suggested with Bernard Aneau, just suspending that impulse 80 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:45,960 Adam Lang: and action for our audience who might be building their 81 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:49,080 Adam Lang: own brands or their own assets, or even as it 82 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:51,400 Adam Lang: applies to personal brands, can you talk a little bit 83 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:51,920 Adam Lang: about that. 84 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:55,280 Ian Rogers: The value of time, what I've come up with is 85 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:59,960 Ian Rogers: fifteen years. That's how long it takes for a brand 86 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:06,440 Ian Rogers: to but really become a brand. My initial notice of 87 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:11,120 Ian Rogers: this fifteen year thing was about technology. In the nineties. 88 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:15,440 Ian Rogers: I was playing around with getting content over the internet 89 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:20,239 Ian Rogers: in my living room and it was it didn't really work, 90 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:23,040 Ian Rogers: you know, it was sort of buffering, buffering, buffering, you know, 91 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:25,160 Ian Rogers: but you know it was it was sort of I 92 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:27,600 Ian Rogers: was like, Okay, this is this ultimately will work. This 93 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:30,000 Ian Rogers: is difficult today, but ultimately this will be the way. 94 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,640 Ian Rogers: Many years later, I was speaking to my mom on 95 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:37,440 Ian Rogers: the phone and she said, oh, by the way, you'll 96 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:40,320 Ian Rogers: find it interesting that I canceled my cable subscription and 97 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:42,839 Ian Rogers: I only have Roku now. And in my head I 98 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:45,120 Ian Rogers: sort of scrambled. I went, Okay, how long did that take? Like, 99 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:48,080 Ian Rogers: how long was it from when I was playing around 100 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:50,320 Ian Rogers: with getting content over the internet in my living room 101 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:53,400 Ian Rogers: to my mom canceling her cable subscription, you know, to 102 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:55,800 Ian Rogers: something that's really material for an average customer. 103 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:57,799 Speaker 3: And it was fifteen years. 104 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:00,720 Ian Rogers: And that has become a pattern and that I've seen 105 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:03,520 Ian Rogers: over and over and then I started to notice it 106 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:07,039 Ian Rogers: on the on the brand side as well. That you know, 107 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:09,920 Ian Rogers: brands in their earlier days, they can have momentum, they 108 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:13,159 Ian Rogers: can have hype, they can have a moment, they can 109 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:16,200 Ian Rogers: have a fad, they can have a trend, but it's 110 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:19,600 Ian Rogers: only after they've been around for fifteen years that they 111 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:23,880 Ian Rogers: really start to have this kind of sustainable international growth. 112 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:26,840 Speaker 3: And you know, the one of the clearest. 113 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:29,239 Ian Rogers: Examples for me in recent memory is Golden Goose Shoes, 114 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:32,159 Ian Rogers: which you know, kind of the founder of that company 115 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:34,919 Ian Rogers: was able to really build a brand and build a 116 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:38,320 Ian Rogers: cool brand, but it had to get the time had 117 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:41,320 Ian Rogers: to go on to where you know, an icon like 118 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:44,240 Ian Rogers: Virgil Ablow would kind of point to it and go, oh, yeah, 119 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:46,680 Ian Rogers: that was the cool shit when I was a kid, 120 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:50,479 Ian Rogers: you know, and and that that's what has to happen. 121 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:53,200 Ian Rogers: It's I also, I think it might be fifteen years 122 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:56,400 Ian Rogers: because it might actually be generational. Yeah, you know, with 123 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:59,320 Ian Rogers: the BacT Boys, what we realized was that, you know, 124 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:03,120 Ian Rogers: over time, the kids in the front row were always 125 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:06,400 Ian Rogers: the same age. You'd come back ten years later and 126 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:08,800 Ian Rogers: the kids in the front row are still sixteen. But 127 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:11,360 Ian Rogers: then what you realize is that you know, the ones 128 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:14,080 Ian Rogers: who are ten years older are you know, are fifty 129 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:17,160 Ian Rogers: feet behind them, And then you know, fifty feet behind 130 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:19,760 Ian Rogers: them are the ones that are my age. And that's 131 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:21,880 Ian Rogers: what it takes like it is, it does take time. 132 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:24,360 Ian Rogers: It takes you know, sort of generation to do this, 133 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:27,200 Ian Rogers: and I think I think it might be everywhere. I mean, 134 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:29,320 Ian Rogers: I was, I was saying last year, this is this 135 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:31,560 Ian Rogers: is Bitcoin's year, and people would say why, and I'd say, 136 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:34,640 Ian Rogers: because it's fifteen years old. Fifteen is it is some 137 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:38,440 Ian Rogers: sort of it's it's if you've managed to stick around 138 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:41,400 Ian Rogers: for fifteen years, then you obviously have some kind of 139 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:46,000 Ian Rogers: staying power. But also you've not only saturated one generation, 140 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:49,200 Ian Rogers: but you're probably you know, gaining momentum on the generation 141 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:53,360 Ian Rogers: behind them, and that builds something sustainable. 142 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:56,480 Adam Lang: Let's go to shake your rump in FT's a non 143 00:07:56,520 --> 00:08:00,520 Adam Lang: fungible token basically a digital certificate of ownership recorded on 144 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:03,000 Adam Lang: the blockchain, and it can prove you own a unique 145 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:06,440 Adam Lang: asset like art or music. How has you being a 146 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:10,720 Adam Lang: collector shaped your view of why digital ownership matters? 147 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:14,560 Ian Rogers: Again, this is a you know, when you're living in 148 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:15,960 Ian Rogers: the future, you can feel the future. 149 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 3: Well, what's what's. 150 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:21,360 Ian Rogers: Interesting to me is that you you do start to 151 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:27,000 Ian Rogers: feel like when you explore any new art form, you 152 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:29,600 Ian Rogers: you find the edges of it, you start to figure 153 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:34,560 Ian Rogers: out what's real what's not you know, what what touches you? 154 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 3: What? What doesn't? 155 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:39,280 Ian Rogers: I think, just like I said earlier, or you said, 156 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:43,760 Ian Rogers: you know, storytelling plus time equals value, I was quoting you, Yeah, 157 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:47,360 Ian Rogers: and so you know, you it's always the story behind it, 158 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:48,559 Ian Rogers: what's the context? 159 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 3: Who? 160 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:53,200 Ian Rogers: You know, we talk about digital art, but really digital 161 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:56,040 Ian Rogers: art wouldn't be interesting if it wasn't for the artists 162 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:58,880 Ian Rogers: who happened to use digital as a medium. So what 163 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:02,040 Ian Rogers: we're really talking about is, is you know, the human 164 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:05,880 Ian Rogers: behind it? What was their motivation? What have they done? 165 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:09,200 Ian Rogers: What's the story is it? Is it a feat of 166 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:11,560 Ian Rogers: kind of technical creativity? Is it a is it a 167 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:15,880 Ian Rogers: conceptual piece like you know, is it simply photography? You know, 168 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:18,520 Ian Rogers: I'm interested in all of the above, but for you know, 169 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:21,920 Ian Rogers: for for different reasons. But what you realize is that 170 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:25,240 Ian Rogers: digital as a format is actually very accessible. You know, 171 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:27,960 Ian Rogers: if I have a photograph on on my wall, it's 172 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:31,640 Ian Rogers: you know, the relatively difficult for me to kind of distribute, 173 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:34,680 Ian Rogers: you know, and share that, Whereas you know, if I 174 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:37,600 Ian Rogers: have that in digital format, then you know, it's quite 175 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:41,680 Ian Rogers: easy for me to share it and to tell that story, 176 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:44,360 Ian Rogers: you know, to others and share that story with others. 177 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:48,040 Ian Rogers: So I think what I find interesting is is is 178 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:50,920 Ian Rogers: exploring you know, what it is and what it isn't. 179 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:56,000 Ian Rogers: But what I found is that personally I value digital 180 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:59,200 Ian Rogers: art more than physical art, and if I buy a 181 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:01,360 Ian Rogers: piece of physical art, I actually would like it to 182 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:04,960 Ian Rogers: come with something digital. I would I would like to 183 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:06,040 Ian Rogers: have to have both. 184 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 3: You know. 185 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:11,400 Ian Rogers: We bought a very nice photograph recently, and I've had 186 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:13,800 Ian Rogers: this feeling of feeling sort of disappointed that. 187 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 3: I didn't also have a digital. 188 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:19,559 Ian Rogers: Version of it, you know, because it now can't live 189 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:22,240 Ian Rogers: next to the rest of my collection. It can only 190 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:24,600 Ian Rogers: live in the wall of my house, which feels quite 191 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:27,480 Ian Rogers: limiting in a way. And again that's just part of 192 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:29,320 Ian Rogers: like living in the future and sort of you know, 193 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:33,280 Ian Rogers: feeling the feels that come you know, from you know, 194 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:34,760 Ian Rogers: from living in the future. 195 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:36,839 Speaker 3: I think part of it, though, is just you. 196 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:41,520 Ian Rogers: Know, being a part of an emerging culture where the 197 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:45,160 Ian Rogers: rules are not yet defined, and of course there's a 198 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:47,679 Ian Rogers: lot of nonsense, a lot of you know, a lot 199 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:50,920 Ian Rogers: of hype, a lot of places where you feel, you 200 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:53,079 Ian Rogers: know strongly about a piece of art, and there's you know, 201 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:56,400 Ian Rogers: absolutely no one else who appreciates it, which is very 202 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:58,840 Ian Rogers: much like being in the world of music, where you know, 203 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:01,160 Ian Rogers: you may love an artist or a song and you 204 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:03,719 Ian Rogers: can't understand why the rest of the world doesn't hear it. 205 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 3: The way that you do. 206 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:07,199 Ian Rogers: But to me, that's the fun part. It's where I 207 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:07,600 Ian Rogers: like to be. 208 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:10,280 Adam Lang: Ian, stay with me, we'll be back in a moment. 209 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:22,120 Adam Lang: I'm speaking with Ian Rodgers, chief experience officer and board 210 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:25,160 Adam Lang: member at Ledger. Let's go to check your head. You 211 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:29,440 Adam Lang: are applying your skills at Ledger. Ledger is not a cryptocurrency. 212 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:33,320 Adam Lang: It's the world's largest maker of cryptocurrency hardware wallets. So 213 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:36,920 Adam Lang: for those of us who are still learning about this technology, 214 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:39,480 Adam Lang: how do you take a product that people might think 215 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:42,560 Adam Lang: of as technical or niche and grow it into a 216 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:46,240 Adam Lang: brand that people understand and turn them into fans. 217 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:52,640 Ian Rogers: So Leiger makes the most secure way to hold and 218 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:56,200 Ian Rogers: work with and utilize your digital assets on the planet. 219 00:11:56,280 --> 00:12:00,880 Ian Rogers: So you know, we have seven billion smartphones on planet Earth, 220 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:03,760 Ian Rogers: and the vast majority of them have some kind of 221 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:10,600 Ian Rogers: a value management app on them. Your banking app, PayPal, Venmo, Robinhood, Revolute, 222 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:11,120 Ian Rogers: et cetera. 223 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:12,559 Speaker 3: Right, so we all have some. 224 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:15,120 Ian Rogers: Way that we're managing digital value and as I mentioned earlier, 225 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:19,640 Ian Rogers: we're living through this once in humanity digitization of all value. 226 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:23,600 Ian Rogers: So the same way that we all have a password problem, 227 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:25,840 Ian Rogers: you know, if you have a digital life, you have 228 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:28,959 Ian Rogers: a password problem, you also have a digital value problem. 229 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:32,920 Ian Rogers: And really Ledger is the only way to solve that problem, 230 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:35,720 Ian Rogers: and to solve it elegantly. It's the it's it's about. 231 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:40,040 Ian Rogers: It's about security, it's about privacy. It's about not having 232 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:43,120 Ian Rogers: that counterparty risk that could lead you into you know, 233 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,679 Ian Rogers: crises like FTX and Celsius and the rest of these. 234 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:52,400 Ian Rogers: So there are thefts and scams and all kinds of 235 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:56,360 Ian Rogers: things in this you know, digital asset world, and Ledger 236 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:58,120 Ian Rogers: is your protection against that. 237 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:01,080 Speaker 3: It is the way that you should, if you're doing it. 238 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:05,080 Ian Rogers: Correctly, hold your digital value. So you know, you have 239 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:07,000 Ian Rogers: this thing which is which you know, what I love 240 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:09,680 Ian Rogers: what I love about Ledger is you know, it actually 241 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:12,560 Ian Rogers: is a better mouse trap. It actually is better than 242 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:16,360 Ian Rogers: simply having an application on your phone or simply having 243 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:21,120 Ian Rogers: an exchange. It's built on something that's fundamental. So to 244 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:23,480 Ian Rogers: answer your question for me, you have to start with 245 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:27,040 Ian Rogers: something like that to be able to build, to build 246 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:29,480 Ian Rogers: a brand, right, you know, because you now you have 247 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:32,000 Ian Rogers: something real that you're that you're building on top of. 248 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 3: And you know, so. 249 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:37,240 Ian Rogers: What we're doing every day is is you know really 250 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:40,400 Ian Rogers: like you know, education is is highly leveraged for us 251 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:44,439 Ian Rogers: because people who are educated become Ledger customers. But then 252 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:47,040 Ian Rogers: it can't be just about like let me teach you 253 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:50,160 Ian Rogers: what's right. You know, it has to be easy to use. 254 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:52,840 Ian Rogers: It has to it has to do all of the 255 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:54,520 Ian Rogers: things that you needed to do, and then you have 256 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:59,120 Ian Rogers: to communicate about it through use cases that are meaningful 257 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:01,920 Ian Rogers: to people. Know, how can I how does this integrate 258 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:05,120 Ian Rogers: into my life? How does this improve you know, my 259 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:07,800 Ian Rogers: life and what I do? And also it needs to 260 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:09,880 Ian Rogers: be you know, it needs to be fun. You know, 261 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:13,920 Ian Rogers: like like Jimmy Iveen thought about, you know about headphones. 262 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:17,000 Ian Rogers: They shouldn't look and feel like medical equipment. You know, 263 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:19,800 Ian Rogers: it should be exciting and something that you are proud 264 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:22,560 Ian Rogers: you know, to wear on your head or in our case, 265 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:25,480 Ian Rogers: you know, carry in your pocket and you know, and 266 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:27,800 Ian Rogers: and pull out and show a friend and and and 267 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:30,480 Ian Rogers: be proud of being a part of UH. And so 268 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:32,960 Ian Rogers: to me, you know, the building a brand also goes 269 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:37,000 Ian Rogers: into building the product, bringing that product to life, creating 270 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:39,240 Ian Rogers: all the functionality and the use cases in the product, 271 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:41,600 Ian Rogers: and then ultimately the way that you you present that 272 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:45,040 Ian Rogers: product to market. We're now the the Jersey partner of 273 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:48,720 Ian Rogers: the San Antonio Spurs and that's a great opportunity to 274 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:52,880 Ian Rogers: build brand awareness but also educate and you know, and 275 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:55,840 Ian Rogers: bring people into this new world of finance and to 276 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:58,480 Ian Rogers: and to bring them the benefits of this new world 277 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,600 Ian Rogers: of finance and and bring them along on that journey 278 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:01,840 Ian Rogers: with you. 279 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:06,080 Adam Lang: Let's talk about sabotage. You mentioned ft X, and the 280 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:08,920 Adam Lang: collapse was a painful work up call for many Thirty 281 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:12,600 Adam Lang: thousand people are still waiting on liquidators, with some losing 282 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:16,200 Adam Lang: a large amount. Can you explain the difference between leaving 283 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:20,200 Adam Lang: your cryptocurrency on an exchange and holding it holding it 284 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:21,800 Adam Lang: yourself in a Ledger wallet? 285 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 3: Yew. 286 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:27,160 Ian Rogers: The you know, the the innovation of cryptocurrency is permissionless money, 287 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:29,840 Ian Rogers: you know, fundamentally, you know, I always like to come 288 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:33,200 Ian Rogers: back to the fundamentals. And in the case of the Internet, 289 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:36,000 Ian Rogers: you know, you have you have a very simple idea, 290 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:39,200 Ian Rogers: which is one computer can talk to another one. And 291 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:42,880 Ian Rogers: you know, the amount of innovation that that's brought to 292 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:46,600 Ian Rogers: humanity is tremendous, right, But it really is that simple. 293 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:48,960 Ian Rogers: You have a network of commuter computers that can talk 294 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:52,360 Ian Rogers: to one another, you know, and as a result, it's 295 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:56,760 Ian Rogers: it's actually you know, changed our our lifestyles. So, you know, 296 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:00,000 Ian Rogers: with in the case of you know, blockchain and cryptocurrency, 297 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:02,880 Ian Rogers: so you also have a very simple idea, and that 298 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:05,640 Ian Rogers: is that you can have scarce digital value and it's 299 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:09,920 Ian Rogers: easy to it's easy to transact digitally. But that opens up, 300 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:13,400 Ian Rogers: you know, a whole bunch of use cases. But those 301 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:17,960 Ian Rogers: those use cases they only exist because it is permissionless money. 302 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,720 Ian Rogers: Otherwise it's the same thing that we we had, you know, 303 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:25,080 Ian Rogers: thirty years ago with Visa and MasterCard. It's you know, 304 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:30,120 Ian Rogers: it's what blockchain isn't is a centralized company with a 305 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:32,920 Ian Rogers: centralized database that tells you how much money you have 306 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:36,680 Ian Rogers: and what transactions have happened. What it is is permissionless 307 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:40,800 Ian Rogers: money with a distributed ledger where we can issue tokens 308 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:46,760 Ian Rogers: and transact in this permissionless environment. Now what that means though, is, 309 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:49,600 Ian Rogers: you know, if you have the ability for self custody, 310 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:54,320 Ian Rogers: then security is paramount because that means that that digital 311 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:58,120 Ian Rogers: value could be lost and it could be lost easily. 312 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:01,120 Ian Rogers: It's actually very difficult to say, steal a billion dollars 313 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:03,960 Ian Rogers: in gold bars. It takes a lot of trucks, right, 314 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:08,080 Ian Rogers: It's very very easy to steal a billion dollars in 315 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:13,960 Ian Rogers: digital assets. And so whether it is on the custodian 316 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:16,879 Ian Rogers: side you know, the bank or the exchange, or it 317 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:21,400 Ian Rogers: is on you as an individual, security is paramount and 318 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:26,280 Ian Rogers: extremely important. And that's what Ledger does for both customers 319 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:32,119 Ian Rogers: and exchanges. We create that that security. So whether you 320 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:35,919 Ian Rogers: are entrusting it with a player like FTX, or you 321 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:39,320 Ian Rogers: are entrusting it yourself, that security is super important. But 322 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:43,320 Ian Rogers: the what's incredible to me is that we have, you know, 323 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:47,480 Ian Rogers: four trillion in digital value with ten trillion easily in sight. 324 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:50,800 Ian Rogers: And there are not five places on the planet that 325 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:54,199 Ian Rogers: I would recommend you store, recommend to a friend they 326 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:57,920 Ian Rogers: store their digital value, right, there are very few. I mean, 327 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:02,960 Ian Rogers: FTX seem like a very trustable company. You know, the 328 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:05,080 Ian Rogers: guys on the cover of Forbes and they're doing Super 329 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:08,680 Ian Rogers: Bowl ads and they've they've got you know, they're associated 330 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:12,520 Ian Rogers: with people in Hollywood, people in Washington, and must be okay, right. 331 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,679 Ian Rogers: I think that's that's the reminder that we need to say, 332 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:20,919 Ian Rogers: you don't know unless you know. And what Ledger allows 333 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:23,959 Ian Rogers: is for you to know you can hold your value 334 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:29,240 Ian Rogers: in secure self custody and know that it's safe. You 335 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:32,639 Ian Rogers: know there, you know, there were no Ledger. No one 336 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:35,840 Ian Rogers: who held their value in their their Ledger was at risk. 337 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:37,720 Ian Rogers: It's not even that they just didn't lose and it 338 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,440 Ian Rogers: was like, ooh, we got lucky. They were not at 339 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:44,040 Ian Rogers: risk when everything happened with Celsi, it's with FTX, et cetera. 340 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:46,040 Ian Rogers: And that's the position I think you'd like to be 341 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:49,160 Ian Rogers: in as somebody who is holding digital value. 342 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:53,720 Adam Lang: My final Beastie Boys reference is sure shot looking ahead. 343 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:56,439 Adam Lang: What is the sure shot for Ledger? What's the vision 344 00:18:56,800 --> 00:19:00,000 Adam Lang: that you're working towards where Leja sits alongside Apple, Louis Vite, 345 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:03,560 Adam Lang: Homebaates or any other household name. And what can our 346 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:06,679 Adam Lang: audience learn from the way you're approaching that challenge. 347 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:09,880 Ian Rogers: Well, I think you know, as I said earlier, with 348 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:13,560 Ian Rogers: seven billion smartphones on planet Earth and the vast majority 349 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,320 Ian Rogers: of them having some kind of a value management app 350 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:20,239 Ian Rogers: on them, Ledger is the premium way to manage your 351 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:23,200 Ian Rogers: value if you are serious about digital value. And again, 352 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:26,000 Ian Rogers: more and more people are serious about digital value every 353 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:28,840 Ian Rogers: single day, then you really need a ledger in your. 354 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:30,120 Speaker 3: Life to protect that value. 355 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:33,919 Ian Rogers: So, you know, our vision is simply to do a 356 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:36,439 Ian Rogers: very good job of that. You know there will be 357 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,640 Ian Rogers: a lot of services in the world of digital assets 358 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:43,320 Ian Rogers: and digital value. You will use your ledger to connect 359 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:46,520 Ian Rogers: to those services, and therefore you'll do it in a 360 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:51,639 Ian Rogers: way which protects you, protects your assets, so security protects 361 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:56,760 Ian Rogers: you as an individual, privacy, identity, et cetera. And you know, 362 00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:01,119 Ian Rogers: gives you the broadest array of you know, of services. 363 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:03,639 Ian Rogers: So you know, think about it the way that again, 364 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:06,880 Ian Rogers: you you're on the internet, you have you know, your 365 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:12,199 Ian Rogers: your preferences are behind thousands of websites, and hopefully you 366 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:15,440 Ian Rogers: have good password hygiene. You use a tool like one password, 367 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:19,880 Ian Rogers: you know, to protect your online presence and your digital identity. 368 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:23,439 Ian Rogers: You know you'll in that in the same kind of 369 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:26,280 Ian Rogers: you know, analogous way in the world of digital value. 370 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:30,400 Ian Rogers: You know, you need a ledger to protect that digital value. 371 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:33,800 Ian Rogers: I think also though, this is the other side of 372 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:36,600 Ian Rogers: the AI coin, and what I mean by that is 373 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:42,280 Ian Rogers: if AI delivers digital abundance, blockchains deliver digital scarcity, and 374 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,119 Ian Rogers: we're We're living in a world where how do I 375 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:47,119 Ian Rogers: know that it's you that I'm speaking to on the 376 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:50,040 Ian Rogers: other side of this of this computer? What where's the 377 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:53,840 Ian Rogers: where's the proof the proof of And then if you 378 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:56,199 Ian Rogers: think about it, we need proof a lot in our lives. 379 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:59,479 Ian Rogers: We need you know, we need proof of age, we 380 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:02,800 Ian Rogers: need proof of citizenship in the future, we need proof 381 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:05,240 Ian Rogers: of humanity. Right, how do I know that the person 382 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:08,040 Ian Rogers: I'm speaking to on Reddit is not a bot? You know, like, 383 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:10,719 Ian Rogers: this is a real problem. It's not a futuristic problem, 384 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:13,960 Ian Rogers: it's a this is a today problem. And so you 385 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,520 Ian Rogers: know Ledger also, you know delivers you know this this 386 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:21,600 Ian Rogers: kind of proof, identity proof. Also, we're moving into a 387 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:25,399 Ian Rogers: world of agentic AI, where AI will be will be 388 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,200 Ian Rogers: acting on your behalf. You know, I think ten years 389 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:30,919 Ian Rogers: from now, the notion that you know, you go to 390 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:34,119 Ian Rogers: a website and put in a date range and choose 391 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:36,840 Ian Rogers: a city and then choose from a list of airplane 392 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:39,879 Ian Rogers: You know that that's not the way that the computer 393 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:42,280 Ian Rogers: interfaces will work. You'll talk to an agent, You'll tell 394 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:44,800 Ian Rogers: it what you would like, and the interface will actually 395 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,320 Ian Rogers: be between the agent and the service as opposed to 396 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,280 Ian Rogers: you know, you and your mouse and you know, sky scanner. 397 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:55,359 Ian Rogers: But in that world you also need to federate your identity. 398 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:58,359 Ian Rogers: Maybe it's your your you know, your airline rewards log in. 399 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:02,119 Ian Rogers: But also certainly I don't want to give my credit 400 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:04,520 Ian Rogers: card to that AI agent and have it just you know, 401 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:06,960 Ian Rogers: go go do what it wants to do. I need 402 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:09,399 Ian Rogers: it to come back to me and say I have 403 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:11,640 Ian Rogers: found you this ticket on this date, would you would 404 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:13,520 Ian Rogers: you like to give some money? And then I need 405 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:17,680 Ian Rogers: to be able to securely say yes, I authorize this transaction, 406 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:21,159 Ian Rogers: so you know, to answer your question. And looking you know, 407 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:24,040 Ian Rogers: further out on the horizon, you will need a ledger 408 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:27,320 Ian Rogers: to not only kind of protect your you know, your 409 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,159 Ian Rogers: private keys and your digital assets today, but in the 410 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:34,480 Ian Rogers: future your identity and also to act on your behalf 411 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:37,679 Ian Rogers: in a world of of agentic AI. So there's a 412 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:41,240 Ian Rogers: you know, there's a very long roadmap, and we absolutely 413 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:44,720 Ian Rogers: cannot go forward with all of the technology that we're 414 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:48,439 Ian Rogers: going forward, the the the digitization of all value, the 415 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,919 Ian Rogers: you know, the introduction of kind of super intelligence into 416 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:56,320 Ian Rogers: into the you know, into our lives without having the 417 00:22:56,400 --> 00:23:03,480 Ian Rogers: protection of our secrets, our privacy and secrets includes value. 418 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:06,640 Adam Lang: Ian it's been an absolute delight talking with you. Thank 419 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:08,760 Adam Lang: you for joining us today on Fear and Greed one 420 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:09,120 Adam Lang: on one. 421 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,320 Ian Rogers: Thanks very much for having me. Thanks for the great questions. 422 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:11,960 Ian Rogers: It's fine too. 423 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:15,720 Adam Lang: That was Ian Rodgers, chief experience officer and board member 424 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:19,000 Adam Lang: at the computer and network security company Ledger, the world's 425 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:22,760 Adam Lang: largest maker of cryptocurrency hardware wallets. I've learned so much 426 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,399 Adam Lang: in this interview today. I'm Adam Lang and this is 427 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:27,080 Adam Lang: one on one by Fear and Greed.