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Speaker 1: Ross Coulthart, good to be here, Mark.

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Speaker 2: Now where are you living, rossk.

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Speaker 1: I live in the Southern Highlands, two hours south of

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Speaker 1: Sydney and the rolling Green Hills of the Highlands.

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Speaker 2: And what about in terms of your work, your investigative work.

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Speaker 1: I work as a special international correspondent for an American

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Speaker 1: news network called News Nation, which is a rising national

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Speaker 1: cable news network in the United States that is taking

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Speaker 1: on the CNNs and the Fox News. It's a bit

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Speaker 1: like CNN was in its early days about thirty years ago.

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Speaker 1: And it's great fun being on the shop floor because

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Speaker 1: they're really interested in challenging accepted prurisms and they like

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Speaker 1: long form investigative journalism, which is how I've made a

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Speaker 1: large part of my career.

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Speaker 2: You actually, when I look at you and I have

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Speaker 2: seen you before. We haven't spoken before, I don't think,

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Speaker 2: but I have seen you before. And when I look

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Speaker 2: at you in especially when I do it through so

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Speaker 2: you're not actually sitting from me, I just got your

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Speaker 2: face framed and I can see your broad shoules in

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Speaker 2: your shirt and you look like a detective. But you've

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Speaker 2: got that look in your eye. You know.

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Speaker 1: I've always been naturally curious and inquisitive, and I actually

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Speaker 1: trained as a commercial lawyer. I was a lawyer very briefly,

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Speaker 1: and complete failure at that. And I realized I was

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Speaker 1: far too nosy and more interested in following leads where

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Speaker 1: they took me, and I drifted into journalism largely because

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Speaker 1: I was always interested in the other story I loved

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Speaker 1: as a boy. I didn't have the Basity Rollers or

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Speaker 1: Susie Quattro on my wall. I had the Sunday Times

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Speaker 1: of London's Insight Team Investigations and the Guardian Investigative Team.

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Speaker 1: I was a huge fan of probing, long form investigative

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Speaker 1: journalism that revealed scandals like the Tholidimide scandal, the DC

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Speaker 1: ten door scandal, the Demona nuclear reactor, how Israeli got

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Speaker 1: the bomb, all of these amazing stories that were done

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Speaker 1: with essentially good old fashioned footletter digging journalism.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's very interesting. So what do you put that

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Speaker 2: down to, Because I mean, we are going to talk

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Speaker 2: a little bit in a moment about aliens and UFOs

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Speaker 2: and all those sorts of wonderful things as I'm so

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Speaker 2: intrigued about, and not just in a theoretical sense, but

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Speaker 2: more as an investigator. I want to talk to you

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Speaker 2: about it. You're going to talk to me about it,

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Speaker 2: I hope. But what is it that drives an investigative journalist?

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Speaker 2: Is it just curiosity or is it I want to

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Speaker 2: know the.

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Speaker 1: Truth, look to be honest with you. A lot of

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Speaker 1: it is. I think a lot of mainstream media is bs.

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Speaker 1: It's nonsense, and I think we're driven largely by a

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Speaker 1: pack mentality. I think there are far too many accepted

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Speaker 1: truisms in mainstream media. Legacy media is shaming itself at

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Speaker 1: the moment with its paucity of coverage and long form investigation,

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Speaker 1: and all through my career I've been really struck by

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Speaker 1: the fact that when you take a contrarian position on

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Speaker 1: things like, for example, global warming. I certainly believe in

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Speaker 1: anthropogenic global warming. I think humans are playing a role

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Speaker 1: in the environment, but I think the level to which

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Speaker 1: humans have played that role has been grossly overstated. And

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Speaker 1: I've done stories where I've looked at the science, the

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Speaker 1: pure science of global warming, and it's absolutely undoubtable that

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Speaker 1: there is a lot of overstatement in the science. There's

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Speaker 1: become a kind of a zelotry in journalism to do

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Speaker 1: each other, to talk about apocalyptic doom and bloom, and

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Speaker 1: to talk about the coming end of days. And I

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Speaker 1: don't think it's the media's role to essentially trumpet what

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Speaker 1: we're told by government or by so called experts. I

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Speaker 1: think our job is to basically question and probe and analyze,

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Speaker 1: and that's what the public want. And sadly, I don't

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Speaker 1: think much investigative journalism happens anymore in mainstream media. It's

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Speaker 1: increasingly moving on to shows like Yours Where and Mine

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Speaker 1: where Essentially you have the forum of being able to

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Speaker 1: talk for often hours at a time and ask hard questions.

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Speaker 1: And I'm quite proud of the fact that what seems

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Speaker 1: to be happening in media at the moment is a

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Speaker 1: lot of the major mastheads, the seven's, nine, and ten, ABC,

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Speaker 1: they're all in terminal decline. Frankly, the big newspapers are

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Speaker 1: quietly dying away as their advertising revenue dwindles. And the

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Speaker 1: only way really to fund long form investigative journalism anymore

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Speaker 1: is to do what gets bums on seats, which is

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Speaker 1: going online and doing podcasts. And that's what I've discovered.

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Speaker 1: I've discovered a massive, multi millions audience that is interested

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Speaker 1: in the UAP subject, largely because I decided to do

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Speaker 1: a book about what is the most taboo and stigmatized

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Speaker 1: subject in journalism all the time, in journalism, you're told,

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Speaker 1: you know, we don't do UFO stories, and if we

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Speaker 1: do UFO stories, were to take the piss with them.

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Speaker 1: And I've never understood why that's the case. When in

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Speaker 1: my journalistic career, I often found that there'd be people

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Speaker 1: of high repute, good witnesses, some of them military witnesses

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Speaker 1: with first hand evidence, contacting a newspaper chief of staff,

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Speaker 1: and I'd be the reporter assigned to talk to them.

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Speaker 1: And I was constantly amazed how editors and executive producers

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Speaker 1: of TV shows had a resistance to even looking at

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Speaker 1: the subject matter. And I guess I'm naturally drawn to

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Speaker 1: contrarian stories. I'm drawn to stories that challenge accepted wisdom.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting you just mentioned that be mentioned in your

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Speaker 2: discussion then about mainstream media and also certain interest groups.

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Speaker 2: When someone says something of a contrarian view of what

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Speaker 2: looks like to be contrarian relative to the accepted or

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Speaker 2: conventional let's call it wisdom of the time, for example,

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Speaker 2: global warming. For example, aliens UFOs. The simple retort of

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Speaker 2: those who hold the mainstream view, the mainstream media is

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Speaker 2: that the individual who's raising this point is a conspiracy theorist,

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Speaker 2: that they're talking about a conspiracy. I often wonder to myself,

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Speaker 2: maybe the conspiracies on the other side, or potentially both sides.

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Speaker 2: Who's the conspiracy theorist?

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean, look at what happened with COVID. I

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Speaker 1: mean I can remember I was a proached by epidemiologists

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Speaker 1: who were actually linked to the Therapeutics Good Administration, which

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Speaker 1: is the body that regulates drugs in Australia are equivalent

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Speaker 1: of the Food and Drugs Administration, and they warned me,

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Speaker 1: they said, Ross the testing for COVID nineteen vaccines is

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Speaker 1: woeful and we should be very, very skeptical of these

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Speaker 1: mRNA vaccines. Now, I'm a doctor's son. I do what

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Speaker 1: you're told with vaccines, and I dutifully accepted that I

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Speaker 1: should have the vaccine, and my wife and I suffered

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Speaker 1: extraordinary negative results as a result of taking Astrosenica and Maderna.

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Speaker 1: And it's now come out, of course that astrazenica has

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Speaker 1: been withdrawn from the market, and there's big question marks

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Speaker 1: over the mRNA vaccins, which have got real darts about

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Speaker 1: not only their efficacy but also their safety. I've got

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Speaker 1: friends who suffered heart constructions, pericardial constrictions as a result

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Speaker 1: super fit people as a result of taking vaccin that

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Speaker 1: we were assured by the government were completely safe. Now,

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Speaker 1: the media, particularly the ABC through Norman Swan, played a

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Speaker 1: key role in promoting the idea that these vaccines were

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Speaker 1: completely safe and the credibility of reputable journalists we used

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Speaker 1: to reinforce the idea with the public that the vaccines

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Speaker 1: were things that had to be taken. Now we know

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Speaker 1: there is a huge body of evidence beginning to emerge

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Speaker 1: suggesting that there were huge problems with the vaccins and

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Speaker 1: more importantly, what we were told about the origins of COVID,

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Speaker 1: notably that it came from a wild animal market in China.

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Speaker 1: There's serious darts about that, and senior people in the

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Speaker 1: intelligence community in the United States, and indeed a congressional

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Speaker 1: investigation have found precisely to the contrary that it probably

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Speaker 1: came from what we always suspected, it was a Chinese

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Speaker 1: weapons laboratory that was probably funded making us Now and

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Speaker 1: the thing that really gets me is still people in

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Speaker 1: the media, notably the ABC, are public broadcaster that continue

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Speaker 1: to promote untruths about COVID, which frankly, I don't think

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Speaker 1: as media organizations they should be doing. I think they

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Speaker 1: should be questioning. It's not our job to meekly roll

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Speaker 1: over and let our tummies be tickled by whatever experts

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Speaker 1: there are of the day. Yes, we should accept solid

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Speaker 1: science when it's there, but we should always be skeptical.

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Speaker 1: We should always question and worry about why we're being

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Speaker 1: told certain things. And I think the public, frankly, was

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Speaker 1: very badly let down during COVID, and it worried me

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Speaker 1: that some of the most auspicious and reputable programs associated

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Speaker 1: with investigative journalism in Australia essentially became cheerleaders for government

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Speaker 1: programs that were frankly deceptive and misleading.

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Speaker 2: Do you think that we are nobody spoke up or

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Speaker 2: those that did speak up didn't get a voice, those

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Speaker 2: wondered to speaker didn't get a voice? Is that because

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Speaker 2: they were scared we were suppressed? What I mean, because

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Speaker 2: I'm with you, leg I mean, I just thought this

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Speaker 2: is ridiculous having go and get vaccinator. Didn't like the

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Speaker 2: idea of it. I did the astrosenic, I did the

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Speaker 2: maderna and I have a theory in my mind. My

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Speaker 2: father died this time, sorry, beginning last year, and he

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Speaker 2: had six Fizer vaccinations and up until the point of

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Speaker 2: maybe his last one, my dad was like the healthiest

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Speaker 2: guy at eighty nine to nine. All of a sudden

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Speaker 2: he got cancer like crazy, every whole body and I

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Speaker 2: just wanted to I mean, I'm just talking in terms

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Speaker 2: of time relativity. It seems to me there's a relationship

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Speaker 2: between the time he took got his last COVID vaccination

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Speaker 2: and he had one earlier on in the year, which

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Speaker 2: is gp prescribed for him. He just said, oh, George,

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Speaker 2: you're going on a cruise. Dad was going to go

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Speaker 2: on a cruise on his own, and you need to

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Speaker 2: get a vaccination to go on the cruise. It's okay

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Speaker 2: to have one. And the next thing I know, three

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Speaker 2: months later, my father was diagnosed the cancer everywhere. I

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Speaker 2: don't know, I just can't in a temporal sense. I

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Speaker 2: just feel as though that has something to do with it.

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Speaker 2: I mean, why are we being suppressed about all this.

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Speaker 1: There's a great Australian myth that we are anti authoritarian

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Speaker 1: and that we stand up to authority we used to be.

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Speaker 1: Look what happened with COVID. Basically the government imposed effective

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Speaker 1: martial law. People were ordered to stay in their homes

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Speaker 1: and we all obeyed. And I can remember, I still

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Speaker 1: remember it to this day. A woman in Victoria who

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Speaker 1: had made a mild criticism of the vaccines, challenging whether

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Speaker 1: or not they were a thing that should be taken,

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Speaker 1: and she was raided by the Victorian riots.

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Speaker 2: I saw that, I saw that she was pregnant. She

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Speaker 2: was pregnant, and she did it on Facebook. I remember it,

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Speaker 2: and they showed on television.

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Speaker 1: And I think something happened. I actually don't think it

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Speaker 1: had happened again in Australia. I think what's happened ironically

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Speaker 1: because of the deceit and the manipulation of the media

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Speaker 1: by the government and the misuse of public so called experts.

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Speaker 1: I think what the government has done tragically is actually

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Speaker 1: break public faith in vaccins. And I think we're going

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Speaker 1: to see a terrible rise in things like measles, mumps

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Speaker 1: and rubella, which I think is a perfectly safe vaccin

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Speaker 1: because people are scared away from vaccins because of the

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Speaker 1: appalling way that the government handled the COVID nineteen vaccins

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Speaker 1: we were lied to. There's no getting over that they

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Speaker 1: had reservations from early on about astrozenica and they pulled

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Speaker 1: it off the market with barely an announcement. And they

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Speaker 1: also made it impossible for people to sue the drug

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Speaker 1: companies that were responsible for making these dodgy vaccins, and

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Speaker 1: they effectively gave them a green light to continue operating

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Speaker 1: with the kind of reckless disregard for public safety that

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Speaker 1: they showed in the development of these vaccines in the

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Speaker 1: first place. It should never be allowed to happen again.

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Speaker 1: And I think what it showed, frankly was the lie

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Speaker 1: to the great Australian anti authoritarian claim. You know, we're not,

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Speaker 1: We're quite meek. We rolled over and let the cops

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Speaker 1: in the military t kila tummy.

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Speaker 2: Oh. I know, to be honest, you're on an international basis,

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Speaker 2: is very embarrassing.

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Speaker 1: A lasting stock. I mean, I have American friends who

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Speaker 1: constantly cite to me what happened in Victoria under Dan

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Speaker 1: Andrews's premiership. It was absolutely extraordinary that a state allowed

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Speaker 1: itself to essentially criminalize the questioning of vaccines. And this

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Speaker 1: is really important mark because the current government actually came

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Speaker 1: close to passing laws that would have allowed them to

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Speaker 1: regulate social media. And we have a situation at the

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Speaker 1: moment where Elon Musk, who obviously owns Twitter, has been

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Speaker 1: fined by the EU because essentially he didn't agree with

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Speaker 1: a whole lot of ideas that they had about how

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Speaker 1: they should be allowed to essentially control what is allowed

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Speaker 1: to be said on his social media platform. Why the hell,

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Speaker 1: in an age of declining media mastheads and the diminution

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Speaker 1: of influence in major television networks, why would we want

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Speaker 1: to allow a government to have any kind of control

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Speaker 1: over what are now the rising media brands of our age.

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Speaker 1: We should essentially revere freedom of speech, and sometimes that

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Speaker 1: may mean that people say things which are offensive, So

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Speaker 1: be it.

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Speaker 2: Do you feel as though it's as opposed to our

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Speaker 2: lack of anti authority sentiment that we've always been typically

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Speaker 2: recognized for. Do you think it's more apathy? In other words,

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Speaker 2: you live in such a great country. Everything's good. Don't

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Speaker 2: worry If they don't want me to go to work,

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Speaker 2: I don't care. I why go to work because I'm

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Speaker 2: going to get the government pay out.

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Speaker 1: Look, I think there might be something to that. I mean,

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Speaker 1: one of the things that really strikes me about a

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Speaker 1: certain generation of Americans. They've stopped doing it now, but

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Speaker 1: they used to teach civics in American schools and so

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Speaker 1: people were taught about the importance of approbing media. They

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Speaker 1: were taught about their freedoms, their rights under the Constitution.

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Speaker 1: And we don't do that in Australia. We don't teach

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Speaker 1: people how to complain, and in fact, we have a

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Speaker 1: culture that essentially berates people who complain. They call tool poppies.

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Speaker 1: You know, they're whacked down because they stick their heads up.

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Speaker 1: And yet some of the most interesting work that is

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Speaker 1: done in Australia is when people have the courage to

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Speaker 1: stand up against authority and question. And there were people

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Speaker 1: who were questioning the vaccines as they were in the

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Speaker 1: United States, and those people now being proven true. I

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Speaker 1: have got an enormous amount of respect for Shari Markson

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Speaker 1: from the Australian Sky News. Shari did a series of

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Speaker 1: stories for The Australian which essentially revealed the appalling situation

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Speaker 1: where it was very likely that the COVID vaccine, sorry,

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Speaker 1: the COVID virus came from the government laboratory in China

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Speaker 1: in Wuhan, and there was an enormous attempt by people

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Speaker 1: on the ABC, notably the Media Watch program under Paul Barry,

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Speaker 1: to try and shout down Shari and eventually what happened

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Speaker 1: was she was proven right by in a US intelligence

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Speaker 1: investigation and by a congressional investigation. And the thing that

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Speaker 1: really shocks me about this is there is a tendency

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Speaker 1: in the media I've noticed for people to go, oh wow,

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Speaker 1: an expert said this, therefore it must be right. I mean,

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Speaker 1: for example, the way, for example, a lot of the

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Speaker 1: News Limited papers, the Australian particularly, have been pushing on

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Speaker 1: the appalling behavior of members of the opposition at the

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Speaker 1: time who were now in the government, who essentially tried

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Speaker 1: to suggest that there was some kind of a cover

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Speaker 1: up involving Britney Higgins. Yes, we should accept from the

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Speaker 1: civil decision that was made by Justice Michael Lee that

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Speaker 1: Britney Higgins was tragically raped in a minister's office. But

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Speaker 1: the appalling allegation that produced the reputation of a minister

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Speaker 1: and her policy adviser that was pushed by the then opposition,

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Speaker 1: no members of the Labor Ministry to suggest that there

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Speaker 1: was some kind of dark cover up and it was

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Speaker 1: used as a kind of a slur to try and

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Speaker 1: attack then coalition government under Morrison. It was a very

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Speaker 1: effective slur and I suspect it played a huge part

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Speaker 1: in the downfall of that party in that election. And frankly,

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Speaker 1: I don't think the media should be knowingly involved in

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Speaker 1: that kind of hatchet job. And I think the media

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Speaker 1: on occasion in Australia has lost its objectivity and allowed

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Speaker 1: itself to be manipulated, as we're seeing with this ridiculous

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Speaker 1: expenses scandal. At the moment, who gives a flying fuck

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Speaker 1: if a minister spends a few dollars a few thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars on flying members of their family to a sports match.

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Speaker 1: Are we really so petty in Australia that we think

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Speaker 1: that people who have paid a fair pittance as politicians,

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Speaker 1: as ministers of the Crian shouldn't be able to have

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Speaker 1: their families with them when they're doing their work as ministers.

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Speaker 1: I frankly can't get worked up about whatever it is

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Speaker 1: that the media most of the time get worked up about.

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Speaker 1: In Australia. We are obsessed with MINUTII. Meanwhile, We're not

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Speaker 1: talking about things that are happening right under our noses,

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Speaker 1: such as, for example, the militarization of the top end

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Speaker 1: of Australia. We're essentially turning into an American armed camp.

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Speaker 1: And why are people in the press gallery not asking

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Speaker 1: the question are there no nuclear weapons based on Australian soil?

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Speaker 1: If we have nuclear weapon capable US bombers based at

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Speaker 1: rbaf Tindall, these are the sort of questions that I'm

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Speaker 1: instinctively programmed to ask as a journalist, and I don't

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Speaker 1: see those kind of questions being asked when I look

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Speaker 1: around the journalism that I see today. It's almost like

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Speaker 1: the media is obsessed with, frankly stuff that I don't

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Speaker 1: give a flying tutor bart.

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Speaker 2: And that sort of brings us to a question I'm

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Speaker 2: really interested in, is why are you and have been

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Speaker 2: interested in the possibility or maybe even one step further,

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Speaker 2: the probability of the existence in our on our planet

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Speaker 2: and or the visitation by UFOs and aliens.

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Speaker 1: I started at originally Mark with a journalistic bias and conceit.

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Speaker 1: When I started writing my book and I was still

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Speaker 1: at sixty minutes, I was traveling to the States a lot,

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Speaker 1: and I was really struck that I'd just been told

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Speaker 1: by a then senior manager of NINES Editorial that I

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Speaker 1: couldn't do a particular story that I wanted to do,

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Speaker 1: which was an interview with a guy called Christopher Mellon,

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Speaker 1: a former Deputy Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence and Security.

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Speaker 1: And Chris Mellon had told me he was prepared to

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Speaker 1: go on camera and talk about the reality of UAPs

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Speaker 1: UFOs unidentified anomalous phenomena as they're called these days. The

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Speaker 1: old term is unidentified flying objects. But I was intrigued.

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Speaker 1: I was intrigued just to why there was such a

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Speaker 1: stigma associated with UFOs. I'd had a similar issue when

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Speaker 1: I was at the Sydney Morning Herald as a younger reporter.

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Speaker 1: I remember I was working on a Sunday and if

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Speaker 1: you were the young cub reporter, you were often put

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Speaker 1: in charge of answering the phones in the newsroom. And

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Speaker 1: a lady rang me from Paramatta in Sydney, Western Sydney

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Speaker 1: and she said, I've just taken a photograph and that

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Speaker 1: was of course a film camera back then, in eighty

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Speaker 1: five eighty four actually, and she said, I've just taken

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Speaker 1: a photograph with my camera of a UFO, a flying

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Speaker 1: surcer hovering over my washing line, and I said, you're

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Speaker 1: kidding and she said no. And I remember I spoke

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Speaker 1: to the then photographic editor at the time and I said, look,

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Speaker 1: could you bring your camera in? Don't take the film art,

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Speaker 1: bring your camera in. That way, we can guarantee you

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Speaker 1: haven't meddled with the film, and we'll have a look

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Speaker 1: at it and developed the photographs and see what we see.

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Speaker 1: And it was hilarious because what happened was she brought

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Speaker 1: in the camera, lovely lady. We developed the photographs and

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Speaker 1: sure enough there was an elliptical metallic disk hovering just

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Speaker 1: above her washing line and her house. And I was excited.

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Speaker 1: I thought that the newspaper would run to run this

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Speaker 1: story and do a piece about this odd object that

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Speaker 1: had been seen over this house. And I remember I

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Speaker 1: won't say who. I don't want to embarrass them. But

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Speaker 1: a very senior editor at the Herald said to me, Roscoe,

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Speaker 1: we don't do UFO stories. And I went, why if

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Speaker 1: somebody's got evidence, why do we not do these stories?

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Speaker 1: What's the issue? Well, they're rubbish and I went, well,

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Speaker 1: how can you say that? You haven't even looked at it.

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Speaker 1: And essentially I was told not to be an argumentative

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Speaker 1: little shit and to move on and do my other job.

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Speaker 1: So what really struck me was that happened regularly in journalism.

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Speaker 1: I can remember I was working as a producer for

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Speaker 1: janavent At A Current Affair and John Westercott, who was

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Speaker 1: then the head of News and Current Affairs for nine

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Speaker 1: and he was the at the time the executive producer

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Speaker 1: of A Current Affair, he was way ill and I

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Speaker 1: managed to sneak in a story that I was interested

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Speaker 1: in where I got Jana to interview the deputy head

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Speaker 1: of the Belgian Air Force, General Debraa, about these weird

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Speaker 1: objects that were being seen over Germany, France and Belgium,

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Speaker 1: which was essentially a UFO wave and the actually he

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Speaker 1: was the head of the Belgian Air Force, and he

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Speaker 1: told me how two F sixteen pilots with the Belgian

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Speaker 1: Air Force had tracked an object moving at thousands of

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Speaker 1: kilometers an hour and they couldn't explain it. They'd got

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Speaker 1: images of it on their gun site cameras and I thought,

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Speaker 1: this is a great story. I got Janna to do

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Speaker 1: it and it was very funny because after we did

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Speaker 1: that story, we got a bit of a spanking. I

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Speaker 1: got a bit of a spanking, and I was told

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Speaker 1: that we weren't to do UFO stories. And I could

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Speaker 1: never understand why. I don't think it's a conspiracy. I

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Speaker 1: just think that there is a residual stigma attached, a

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Speaker 1: taboo attached to the subject, that the media has been

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Speaker 1: so acculturated to the idea that UFOs are nonsense that

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Speaker 1: they don't even think objectively about them. So when I

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Speaker 1: finished sixty minutes, I was thinking, what's something I can

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Speaker 1: do to be a bit of a mischief maker? And

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Speaker 1: I thought, I'm going to expose what is obviously a

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Speaker 1: black world US aerospace program. I'm really interested in aerospace,

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Speaker 1: and I've done a lot of stories about aircraft and

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Speaker 1: military aviation, and so I was interested in the likelihood

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Speaker 1: in my mind, I had a firm bias in my

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Speaker 1: mind that the UFO phenomenon was very probably US secret technology.

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Speaker 1: And because of that nineteen eighties General Debrawer Belgian UFO wave,

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Speaker 1: I was convinced it was the Americans likely testing some

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Speaker 1: of their own technology over Western Europe. It kind of

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Speaker 1: made sense to my simple journalistic mind, I never really

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Speaker 1: seriously thought it would be UFOs. And so I was

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Speaker 1: in Washington with sixty minutes doing a story for another story,

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Speaker 1: and I met somebody that i'd met in Afghanistan who

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Speaker 1: I knew was connected to military intelligence, the Defense Intelligence Agency,

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Speaker 1: and they agreed to meet me at a bar in Georgetown,

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Speaker 1: and they were very friendly because Australia was one of

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Speaker 1: their only allies in the War on Terrorism, and we

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Speaker 1: fought wars with them, stupid wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

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Speaker 1: And I'd spent a lot of time covering those wars,

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Speaker 1: and I had numbers in my book of phone numbers

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Speaker 1: of people who were quite high up in the American

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Speaker 1: military and intelligence community. And this guy sat down with

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Speaker 1: a beer, Sam Adams, in front of me on a

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Speaker 1: lovely Chile Washington night, and I remember I said to him,

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Speaker 1: I was going to prove that this was all an

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Speaker 1: American Black World program. And I could see he was

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Speaker 1: looking at me and he was kind of jugging to giggling,

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Speaker 1: and he said, Ross, it's real, And I went, what

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Speaker 1: do you mean it's real? He said, UFOs, And I said,

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Speaker 1: what do you mean. You're not telling me that there's

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Speaker 1: really something to this, are you? And you meant I am,

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Speaker 1: And he said if I was a journalist, i'd be

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Speaker 1: investigating it. And that was a tipping point for me,

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Speaker 1: because I had been guilty of the very thing I

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Speaker 1: was just decrying a lot of the media for which

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Speaker 1: was adopting essentially a subjective bias instinctively to a story.

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Speaker 1: I was assuming the outcome, and I was wrong, because

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Speaker 1: as I started digging, I didn't find it very hard

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Speaker 1: at all, to be perfectly honest. I found a ready

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Speaker 1: willing army of people in the military and intelligence community

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Speaker 1: in the US who were only too willing to share

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Speaker 1: information with me about what they'd seen or what they knew.

432
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,159
Speaker 1: And I couldn't believe it because I was friends at

433
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,920
Speaker 1: the time with very senior people on the New York Times,

434
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 1: the Washington Post. I'm part of a group called ICIJ,

435
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:08,120
Speaker 1: the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists, which is based out

436
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 1: of Washington, DC, and I've met a lot of my

437
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 1: heroes there, Bob Woodward, Seymour Hirsh, a lot of the

438
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 1: greats of American investigative journalism. And I've got phone numbers,

439
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 1: and so i'd bring people and I'd say, what about UFOs?

440
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 1: And I'd realize I was the only one that was

441
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 1: actually looking at this issue as a journalist should be

442
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:32,119
Speaker 1: looking at this issue. And every time I spoke to somebody,

443
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 1: I'd say, have you ever spoken to a journalist before?

444
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 1: And nine times out of ten they hadn't. That been

445
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 1: no footwork done by anybody in The New York Times

446
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 1: or The Washington Post at that time to investigate. Nobody

447
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 1: had asked the question. And so around about the time

448
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 1: that I started writing my book, The Washington no The

449
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 1: New York Times published a story by a now a

450
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 1: very good friend of mine called Leslie Cain, and that

451
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:05,159
Speaker 1: was co written with a guy called Ralph Blumenthal. And

452
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 1: Leslie's story wasn't hugely dramatic. It just revealed in October

453
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:14,919
Speaker 1: December of twenty seventeen that the Pentagon had been investigating

454
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,639
Speaker 1: UFOs contrary to what they'd said they'd been doing for

455
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 1: the last thirty years, officially since the end of Project

456
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:27,919
Speaker 1: Blue Book at the end of the nineteen sixties. The

457
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 1: whole idea of investigating the UFOs was shut down because

458
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 1: the Pentagon, the Defense Department, had made the decision that

459
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 1: it really wasn't worthwhile, that it was all nonsense and

460
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:40,119
Speaker 1: that we should just get on with our lives and

461
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,239
Speaker 1: spend our money on other things. And instead what was

462
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 1: revealed was that Thered been this covert UAP investigation program

463
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 1: going on in secret inside the Pentagon.

464
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 2: Wow.

465
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 1: And that's very much the beginning of my journey, because

466
00:27:56,359 --> 00:28:01,480
Speaker 1: I slowly began realizing I had it completely wrong, that

467
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 1: there were officials who were telling me that there is

468
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:12,639
Speaker 1: a secret UAP retrieval and reverse engineering program that we humans,

469
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 1: not just the Americans, Russians, Chinese, have secretly been in

470
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 1: a cold war for much of the last seventy eighty

471
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:25,360
Speaker 1: years trying to retrieve believe it or not, drum roll,

472
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 1: alien non human technology, and it's been kept secret from

473
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 1: the public.

474
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 2: You mean that, you mean the spacecraft or the individuals

475
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 2: who whatever they are flying base.

476
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 1: There's a polite euphemism that's used for the bodies called biologics.

477
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 1: But essentially, in twenty twenty three, I had a huge breakthrough.

478
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 1: I've been talking to a guy from the National Geospatial

479
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 1: Intelligence Agency by the name of David Grush. David was

480
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 1: a major in the US Air Force. He was one

481
00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 1: of the most highly clear officials in the US military

482
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 1: and intelligence community. He was ready in briefed to be

483
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 1: cleared to know about more than two thousand special access programs,

484
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 1: which are the darkest secrets of all in the US.

485
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 1: He was also cleared for what are called Unacknowledged Special

486
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 1: Access programs usaps, and the biggest secrets of all Believe

487
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 1: it or not, WUSAPS waived unacknowledged special access programs. And

488
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 1: it turned out David had been working for the UAP

489
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 1: Task Force, which was again a secret investigative body that

490
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 1: operated inside the Pentagon that investigated UAPs, and David had

491
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 1: been tasked by his boss at the time, a guy

492
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 1: called Jay Stratton, who I also know who to investigate

493
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 1: whether or not it was true that there was this

494
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 1: secret UAP retreat, evil and reverse engineering program, and David discovered,

495
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 1: to his shock, it was real.

496
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 2: Can I ask you this Ross, When you say retrieval,

497
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 2: I'm presuming mean by that they're actually somehow got the

498
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 2: hands on these particular UOPs, yeah, or UFOs, however we

499
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 2: want to call them, physically sort of brought it down

500
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 2: or somehow it's crashed or whatever the case it'll be.

501
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 2: They've retrieved it. Do they have someone inside it or

502
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 2: some thing biologic?

503
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean we know that the earliest incident that

504
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 1: David Grush kneuerbart was an incident at a place called

505
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 1: Magenta near Milan in northern Italy that took place in

506
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty three. I do know of other incidents, but

507
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 1: this is the one that David Grush has acknowledged to

508
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 1: me publicly, and that involved the retrieval of a craft

509
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 1: by the then fascist Mussolini regime, which was handed over

510
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 1: I'm told and I've learned this from multiple sources. It

511
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 1: was given at the organization of the Vatican. It was

512
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 1: handed over to American intelligence in nineteen forty four or

513
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 1: their abuts, and taken into the possession of the United

514
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 1: States in the late in the early nineteen forties, and

515
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 1: that was the beginning of a series of retrievals of

516
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 1: non human alien craft running from the forties right through

517
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 1: the fifties, sixties, seventies, and right up to the present day.

518
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 1: My understanding from direct, first hand witnesses is that the

519
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 1: US is currently involved in operations where they are literally

520
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 1: attempting to attract non human craft and to shoot them

521
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 1: down using high pulse microwaves and that this operation has

522
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 1: been going on for many years. I know this sounds crazy,

523
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 1: but there are people on the record now, credible people

524
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:04,480
Speaker 1: including David Grush, Jay Stratton, who's the former head of

525
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: the UAP Task Force inside the Pentagon, a man who

526
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 1: had the status of a Vice admiral inside the Defense

527
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 1: Department as a civilian. You know, these are senior people.

528
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 1: You've just recently had James Clapper, who's the former Office

529
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 1: of Director of National Intelligence. You know, he's the former DNI,

530
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 1: the head intelligence guy in the entire US intelligence community.

531
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 1: He went public in a documentary called Age of Disclosure,

532
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 1: which has just started to air on Prime on Amazon Prime,

533
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 1: and I really recommend people watch it. He went public

534
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 1: with the fact that he became aware as Director of

535
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 1: National Intelligence of a secret Air Force program that was

536
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 1: investigating UAPs that's completely separate from the one that The

537
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 1: New York Times has revealed. It turns art yet again,

538
00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 1: believe it or not, we've been lied to the public.

539
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 1: Has been this led for so many decades. We've been

540
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 1: told that UFOs UAPs are a nonsense, that there's something

541
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 1: to be mocked and ridiculed and treated with taboo and stigma,

542
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 1: and it turns out that there's been a very active

543
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 1: military and intelligence operation to try and deceive the public

544
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 1: literally psychological operations, whilst at the same time they've been

545
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 1: coordinated operations, including by the way, involving Australian, British, Canadian

546
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 1: and New Zealand military personnel to assist in the retrieval

547
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 1: of non human craft. And this has been an operation

548
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 1: that's been coordinated within the Five Eyes Spy Alliance and

549
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 1: kept secret even from Prime ministers and presidents. And that's

550
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 1: the issue. There's now a rump of people inside the

551
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 1: Pentagon and the intelligence community who think that enough is enough.

552
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 1: They've been terrible illegalities and indeed crimes committed to protect

553
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,960
Speaker 1: this program. We believe that people have been murdered to

554
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 1: conceal it. And there's now a push on in Congress.

555
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 1: There's a rump of Congressional representatives and senators who are

556
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 1: pushing for UAP disclosure, and they've been over a succession

557
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:18,880
Speaker 1: of years. There's been laws built into the defense appropriations

558
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:22,720
Speaker 1: for the United States where the Defense Department's been told, frankly,

559
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:26,319
Speaker 1: you don't get your defense appropriations unless you agree to

560
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 1: a degree of scrutiny about whether you're telling is the

561
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:33,880
Speaker 1: truth about UAPs. And I speak frequently now to members

562
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 1: of Congress senators who tell me they know that there

563
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 1: is a secret alien craft retrieval program and that the

564
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:46,360
Speaker 1: US has been lying to the public for years, spending billions,

565
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,799
Speaker 1: possibly trillions of dollars in the development of this technology.

566
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:52,759
Speaker 1: And there's now a huge push on to try and

567
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 1: persuade President Trump to tell the public the truth, and

568
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 1: he's promised to investigate, and Trump has promised from it.

569
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 1: But I want to just go like, just go slightly

570
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:08,360
Speaker 1: to the side. This has always seems to be happening

571
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 1: in the USA. Obviously, aliens don't just or whatever these

572
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 1: people are called, just don't go to America. They must

573
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 1: come across Australia, and they probably go across Asia and

574
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 1: other places. Have we had anything along those lines that

575
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 1: allegedly have been.

576
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 2: Circling or landing or be retrieved in Australia In Australia right.

577
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 1: Here, Yeah, absolutely. I mean one of the most incredible

578
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 1: documents in the Australian National Archives is a report that

579
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 1: was written by a guy called Harry Turner, who was

580
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:46,279
Speaker 1: a member a scientist with the Joint Intelligence Organization, which

581
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 1: was one of our original spy agencies in Australia, and

582
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:53,360
Speaker 1: it was essentially a military intelligence organization in the sixties

583
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:57,320
Speaker 1: and seventies. Harry had been a physicist who had worked

584
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:01,360
Speaker 1: at the Woomera Test Range where the British were testing

585
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:05,359
Speaker 1: their ICBMs, and also at Marilinga where the British were

586
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 1: testing their nuclear weapons, their atomic bombs and eventually their

587
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 1: thermonuclear weapons. And he witnessed while he was there multiple

588
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 1: UFO incidents and these formed the basis of reports that

589
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 1: are still visible in our national archives. Australia was a

590
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 1: real hotbed of UFO sightings during the Marilinger Woomera tests.

591
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 1: There were regular sightings of anomalous craft, solid structured craft

592
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 1: witnessed by military personnel over Marilinga. There's a wonderful one

593
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 1: where they had an outdoor cinema and everybody at the

594
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:44,279
Speaker 1: outdoor cinema looked up and saw a craft, a structured

595
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:49,759
Speaker 1: metallic craft hovering overhead with windows, silently cruising overhead with

596
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 1: no visible means of propulsion. These are reports that set

597
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 1: in our national archives. The interesting thing is when I

598
00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 1: started reporting on them, a lot of the media started tittering, thinking, Oh,

599
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 1: this is all rubbish, and what's interesting is that hadn't

600
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 1: done their research. It turns out Australia has long been

601
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 1: a hotbed of UFOs and Harry Turner back in the

602
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 1: seventies was so concerned about it. As a senior scientist

603
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:18,719
Speaker 1: in the Defense Department, he actually pushed for Australia to

604
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 1: set up its own UFO flying squad investigative team. He

605
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 1: wanted a plane on standby so that we could scramble

606
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:30,319
Speaker 1: and go and investigate UFO incidents because he'd seen and

607
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,719
Speaker 1: spoken to people all about these UFO sightings and he

608
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 1: was convinced, absolutely convinced that they were real. A lot

609
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:41,880
Speaker 1: of UFO sightings, a lot of these anomaloust craft seem

610
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:46,239
Speaker 1: to appear in connection with nuclear weapons. And that's why

611
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 1: I mischievously mentioned RAF Tyndall earlier, because I'll give you

612
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 1: a scoop Mark. I'm currently in touch with people from

613
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:56,360
Speaker 1: that Air Force base in Northern Australia who tell me

614
00:37:56,440 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 1: that there's been a spate of sightings of a normalist

615
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 1: craft over rubaf Tindall, which is one of our major

616
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 1: forward bases deployed for the Air Force in Northern Australia,

617
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 1: and these people are telling me that they're seeing UFOs,

618
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 1: they're seeing anomalous objects. Nobody's been able to explain to

619
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 1: them what they are. The Americans have got a team

620
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:21,799
Speaker 1: that's investigating it, and I've spoken to some of the

621
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 1: members of that team. Everybody's in a complete flummox about it.

622
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 1: But I suspect it's because the Americans have actually got

623
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:32,400
Speaker 1: nuclear weapons on Australian soil. Because what's been happening is

624
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:36,400
Speaker 1: the Chinese have now developed intermediate range missiles which allow

625
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:38,759
Speaker 1: them to hit Guam, and so a lot of the

626
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 1: nuclear weapons that were based on Guam as the forward

627
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 1: posture for America against a future war with China, we've

628
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 1: now allowed ourselves to become fortress Australia for America, and

629
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 1: we've now got I suspect nuclear weapons on northern soil

630
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:56,359
Speaker 1: and Australia. Nobody's talking about this, and this is one

631
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 1: of the reasons why I think the news media in

632
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 1: Australia is largely fallen asleep and is getting itself ridiculously

633
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:05,839
Speaker 1: obsessed with travel expenses scandals that frankly, I don't think

634
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 1: most people give a shit about.

635
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:09,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right. I mean they're just playing around the

636
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 2: edges of that sort of stuff. I mean, this is

637
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 2: the sort of meaty stories of them. This is what

638
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 2: Australians want to know. By the way, Australia, we want

639
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 2: to know is there nuclear weapons at the northern of Australia.

640
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:23,319
Speaker 2: If there is, that's fine, but we'd like to know.

641
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 2: Maybe a question for you the Ross is perhaps these

642
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 2: like if I'm China, you know, I'm feeling threatened by

643
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,279
Speaker 2: the US now and camping here in Australia at the

644
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 2: northern tip of Australia in Tindall, I would be saying, well,

645
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 2: I wouldn't mind have a look at what they've got.

646
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:43,799
Speaker 2: Why don't we send there something that looks like a

647
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 2: UAP or a UFO so that they start to think

648
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:48,880
Speaker 2: it's coming from out of space and they can't actually

649
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 2: sell it's one of our sort of vehicles.

650
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 1: That's the excuse that the Americans have been using, and

651
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:56,359
Speaker 1: a lot of European security commentators have been using for

652
00:39:56,400 --> 00:40:00,160
Speaker 1: the so called drones flap that's been occurring over the

653
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 1: continental United States and over much of western Europe. In

654
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:05,720
Speaker 1: the UK for the past year and a half two years,

655
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 1: there's been a spate of anomalous objects, I won't call

656
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 1: them drones, anomalous objects that have been seen over US

657
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 1: military bases, civilian aerodromees, and most recently over some of

658
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 1: the more sensitive military bases in Western Europe. And the

659
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 1: default explanation is it must be the Ruskies. And so

660
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 1: I've challenged, I've actually spoken on my own show Reality Check,

661
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 1: which I do on News Nation. I've said, has anyone

662
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 1: got any evidence at all to show that this is

663
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 1: the Pesky Ruskies? And Vladimir Putin, as I'm sure he

664
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 1: would if he was doing it, of course, has denied it.

665
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 1: But we had a situation just recently where one of

666
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 1: France's most sensitive ports, where they store their nuclear attack submarines,

667
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 1: was buzzed by apparent drones buzzed.

668
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 2: What's that mean?

669
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:59,280
Speaker 1: Basically, they overflew. They overflew this facility and they used

670
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:04,399
Speaker 1: kan'ter drone technology unsuccessfully. Whatever these objects were, the very

671
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 1: best counter drone counter UAS technology that's in the possession

672
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:11,399
Speaker 1: of a NATO power was unable to bring them down.

673
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:15,240
Speaker 1: And this has been consistently the case right across Western Europe.

674
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 1: The Germans have had the same trouble the Danes, the Norwegians,

675
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 1: the Belgians, the Brits. There's been a spate of anomalous

676
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 1: objects seen over sensitive military bases and sensitive civil aviation

677
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:32,960
Speaker 1: facilities right across Western Europe and the UK, and the

678
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 1: default explanation is, oh, it must be the Russians, but

679
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:38,920
Speaker 1: nobody's got a jot of evidence to prove it. And

680
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 1: I'd be very happy if it did turn out to

681
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:45,279
Speaker 1: be the Russians, because frankly, we then know what we're

682
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 1: up against, because it would mean that the Russians have

683
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 1: developed advanced technology which has no visible means of propulsion,

684
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 1: which is capable of stealth, because sometimes these objects have

685
00:41:56,320 --> 00:42:01,800
Speaker 1: quite literally disappeared from not only radar, but from video

686
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 1: and the naked eye. Whatever they are, they're capable of

687
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:09,680
Speaker 1: quite extraordinary maneuvers, and there are some people who are

688
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:13,759
Speaker 1: suggesting that they are in fact anomalists. Now in the

689
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 1: case of the Northern Territory, it's thousands of kilometers from

690
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 1: anywhere Raf Tyndall. If it was the Chinese, they'd be

691
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:24,399
Speaker 1: very conspicuous in a campavan or a car. It's why

692
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 1: we located Pine Gap where we did, because we knew

693
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:30,200
Speaker 1: that if there was a Chinese or Russian spy and

694
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 1: a campavan deploying with a camera from the McDonnell Ranges

695
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 1: to try and see what's going on at Pine Gap,

696
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:40,399
Speaker 1: we'd soon catch them. Now, the interesting thing is it's

697
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 1: not talked about inside our military, not because we know

698
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:48,320
Speaker 1: what's going on, but because I think it's the worst

699
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:52,160
Speaker 1: kind of type a mentality. We just don't like admitting

700
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 1: we have no bloody idea what this is. And I'm

701
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:58,720
Speaker 1: talking to people inside our military and our intelligence community

702
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:02,759
Speaker 1: who admit that there are regularly infractions, breaches of the

703
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:07,359
Speaker 1: airspace over sensitive military facilities. Recently, there was one over

704
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:10,759
Speaker 1: Richmond in Sydney. There was an object, let's call it

705
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:13,440
Speaker 1: an object, I won't call it a drone that sat

706
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:15,720
Speaker 1: there and hovered for over an hour and a half.

707
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:19,239
Speaker 1: It was recorded, it was reported to the relevant authorities,

708
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:22,319
Speaker 1: but they couldn't do anything to bring it down. These

709
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 1: events are happening all the time all over the world,

710
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 1: and not just in the Western world, not just countries

711
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:30,719
Speaker 1: of the Western Alliance. It's been happening in Russia, and

712
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:34,960
Speaker 1: it's been happening in China as well. I suspect something

713
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 1: non human is making a show.

714
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 2: And that's the aircraft. Let's call it the aircraft or

715
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:46,279
Speaker 2: the anomalous craft, which is basically way of saying, it's

716
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 2: a bit of craft that we don't know what the

717
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:49,799
Speaker 2: hell it does because it doesn't act the way we

718
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:53,239
Speaker 2: normally act. It doesn't have an obvious form of propulsion.

719
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 2: It must have some form of propulsion board not the

720
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 2: way we know it. Let's just just move it to

721
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:06,359
Speaker 2: the next age, like what's inside it? Now? Maybe these

722
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:11,880
Speaker 2: things have computerized or they don't need it, like some

723
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:14,360
Speaker 2: sort of form inside it to direct it. It's not

724
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:17,319
Speaker 2: like we've seen the movies. But have there been any

725
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:21,759
Speaker 2: sightings of let's call it aliens themselves like forms of

726
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 2: another form?

727
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 1: There are repeated incidents that I've reported, and many other

728
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 1: people have reported, of beings entities. Yes. I just recently

729
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:37,440
Speaker 1: interviewed a guy who was responsible for patrolling an area

730
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:41,320
Speaker 1: where thermonuclear weapons were stored near Las Vegas, which was

731
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 1: about eleven kilometers from Area fifty one, the notorious Nevada

732
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:48,439
Speaker 1: Test range where America tests a lot of it's black

733
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:52,680
Speaker 1: world technology. Now, this guy was a young officer who

734
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:55,719
Speaker 1: was in charge of a security team that were responsible

735
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:59,759
Speaker 1: for defending to the death these thermonuclear weapons, and in

736
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:06,320
Speaker 1: the course of one evening, they witnessed humanoid figures running,

737
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:10,960
Speaker 1: often at impossible speeds, using stealth that they couldn't explain,

738
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 1: including at one stage apparently inside a supposedly secure repository

739
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:22,720
Speaker 1: for what are the most sensitive thermonuclear weapons in America's arsenal.

740
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 1: And this guy went public with me, provided me with

741
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:30,399
Speaker 1: all of the evidence, his DD two to one four

742
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 1: showing his military service. I spoke to other members of

743
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:36,439
Speaker 1: his team who corroborated his story and said that they'd

744
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:40,840
Speaker 1: witnessed the same thing. There are beings of some kind

745
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:43,760
Speaker 1: which appear to be taking an interest in America's nuclear

746
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:47,360
Speaker 1: weapons and nuclear facilities. And this is a huge issue

747
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:50,239
Speaker 1: that's being talked about both inside the military and the

748
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:54,160
Speaker 1: intelligence community, but it's largely being muzzled from the attention

749
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:57,120
Speaker 1: of the public internationally. And I think it's a shame

750
00:45:57,239 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 1: because the evidence is actually quite overwhelming. Guy called doctor

751
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:05,719
Speaker 1: Eric Davis. I'm just trying to find his transcript. He

752
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 1: gave evidence to a congressional committee and actually testified about

753
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 1: different types of beings. He gave evidence about Gray's short

754
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:22,360
Speaker 1: squat humanoid beings with large heads that he called grays

755
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:25,879
Speaker 1: gray aliens, very similar to the ones that are characterized

756
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:28,959
Speaker 1: in a book called Communion written by a guy called

757
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 1: Whitley Strieber. He also talked about Nordics, and the interesting

758
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:38,840
Speaker 1: thing is there are other witnesses, including military witnesses that

759
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 1: I've spoken to, who've testified about Mantid's insect like beings.

760
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:48,279
Speaker 1: I've obviously never seen any of this evidence myself. I've

761
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:50,520
Speaker 1: only been able to talk to witnesses who say they've

762
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:54,520
Speaker 1: had these experiences. But what really strikes me is fascinating

763
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 1: is I talk a lot on a background, off the

764
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:01,719
Speaker 1: record basis to people in the US military and intelligence

765
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:05,200
Speaker 1: community who are grateful, frankly, that there's a reporter from

766
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:08,799
Speaker 1: mainstream media who's willing to cover this issue. And they

767
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:11,240
Speaker 1: tell me that this is an issue that the United

768
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 1: States is aware of non human intelligences engaging with this planet,

769
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:23,360
Speaker 1: and that we have recovered many non human craft alien craft,

770
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:26,080
Speaker 1: and what's going on? Why is it being kept secret?

771
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:29,640
Speaker 1: It's being kept secret largely because we're trying to militarize

772
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 1: weaponize the technology, and we're not doing that very well.

773
00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:37,160
Speaker 1: But we're obviously paranoid that the Russians and the Chinese

774
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:40,360
Speaker 1: are doing the same thing. And so what David Grush,

775
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:43,200
Speaker 1: the former major of the Air Force, revealed to me

776
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:46,239
Speaker 1: in June of twenty twenty three, was that there's a

777
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:49,360
Speaker 1: secret Cold War going on that as an investigator with

778
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:53,120
Speaker 1: the UAP Task Force, he discovered that there was this

779
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:56,360
Speaker 1: covert program that had been going on right through the

780
00:47:56,440 --> 00:48:00,400
Speaker 1: Cold War where the United States was involved in a

781
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 1: competition with the Russians and the Chinese, increasingly the Chinese,

782
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:09,800
Speaker 1: to recover non human technology. It's not talked about because, frankly,

783
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 1: what we do to try and achieve those results is

784
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 1: absolutely inexcusable. We've been acting offensively violently against non human

785
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:22,759
Speaker 1: intelligences that apparently, from what I've been hearing, have not

786
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 1: been acting offensively or violently against us. Largely, the non

787
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:31,000
Speaker 1: human presence that I'm being told does exist is benevolently

788
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 1: inclined towards humanity, and they appear to take a fairly

789
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:37,279
Speaker 1: lais a fair view to the fact that we try

790
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:42,440
Speaker 1: and steal their technology. I think there's an unfolding tragedy

791
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:47,880
Speaker 1: slowly emerging that essentially our first contact with non human

792
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 1: intelligences happened many decades ago, and sadly it ended with

793
00:48:53,719 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 1: us primitive apes acting offensively against them.

794
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:01,520
Speaker 2: If so, you're saying, if we go back a long

795
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:11,160
Speaker 2: time ago, that these non human intelligence intelligent beings at

796
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:12,479
Speaker 2: some stage wiped is all out.

797
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:15,400
Speaker 1: No, I don't think they did. No, I mean I

798
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:17,719
Speaker 1: think there was. I think one of the things I'm

799
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:21,840
Speaker 1: really interested in is the evidence of a cataclysm that

800
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 1: happened on this planet that perhaps wiped out civilizations, some

801
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:32,960
Speaker 1: of whose megalithic remains we only see today. I've just

802
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:38,240
Speaker 1: been to Matthew Picu in Peru and Suxe Waman in Peru,

803
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:43,560
Speaker 1: and you see these gigantic carved granite megalithic stone blocks

804
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 1: that were carved to a tolerance, to an accuracy that

805
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:53,000
Speaker 1: defies the technology of the Incas or the Aztecs. There's

806
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:56,480
Speaker 1: no explanation for who was able to carve those blocks,

807
00:49:56,480 --> 00:50:00,359
Speaker 1: and the evidence increasingly suggests that they are actually pre

808
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:03,959
Speaker 1: younger driest, pre the end of the last Ice Age,

809
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:07,280
Speaker 1: that they might be as old as thirteen plus thousand

810
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:10,000
Speaker 1: years old. And if you look at the Pyramids, there's

811
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:13,719
Speaker 1: evidence of a prior civilization. There one of the things

812
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:16,120
Speaker 1: that fascinates me as a journalist is that there is

813
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:22,280
Speaker 1: a body of intellectual, well schooled, well scholard academic opinion

814
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:27,640
Speaker 1: that is frighteningly muzzled, that holds the view that there

815
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 1: are evidences of prior civilizations all over this planet that

816
00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:36,560
Speaker 1: have been obscured by modern archaeology because it's not convenient

817
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:40,480
Speaker 1: to the accepted narrative. In Egypt, for example, the evidence

818
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:44,000
Speaker 1: is overwhelming that the pyramids were not sarkhof Guy for

819
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:47,840
Speaker 1: the pharaohs, and that the Pharaohs and the whole Pharoic

820
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:53,680
Speaker 1: Egyptian civilization probably inherited those ruins from some prior civilization.

821
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:58,440
Speaker 1: The Sphinx, for example, show signs of water damage, and

822
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:01,320
Speaker 1: the last time there was water lapping around the Sphinx

823
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:05,400
Speaker 1: was over eleven twelve tho years ago. Wow, nobody has

824
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 1: any evidence for the fact that these scientific evidences are there.

825
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:13,040
Speaker 1: They just say it's not true. End of story. And

826
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:14,560
Speaker 1: so yeah, I mean, I do. To come back to

827
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:17,120
Speaker 1: the issue of non human intelligences, I do think there

828
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 1: is a possibility that there was a non human civilization

829
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:23,680
Speaker 1: on this planet that perhaps left the planet before there

830
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:28,880
Speaker 1: was a catastrophic breakdown or which basically shepherded the survival

831
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:31,480
Speaker 1: of a small amount of the human species and perhaps

832
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:35,319
Speaker 1: hybridized US. I mean, there's increasing evidence to suggest that

833
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:40,160
Speaker 1: our DNA doesn't make sense, that human beings showed an

834
00:51:40,239 --> 00:51:45,120
Speaker 1: extraordinary explosion in brain capacity at a certain time in

835
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:49,800
Speaker 1: history that can't be explained by simple mutations in normal

836
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:54,400
Speaker 1: natural selection evolution. I'm not the expert on this, and

837
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 1: so I won't even pretend to be the expert, but

838
00:51:57,280 --> 00:51:59,440
Speaker 1: I do think that we do need to look at

839
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:03,719
Speaker 1: Earth's prior history with fresh eyes. And the fact that

840
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:07,040
Speaker 1: there is a continued effort by the United States and

841
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:11,840
Speaker 1: other governments around the world to suppress what really should

842
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:15,239
Speaker 1: be public knowledge of a non human intelligence engaging with

843
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:18,239
Speaker 1: this planet, to me is utterly baffling. I think it

844
00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:20,720
Speaker 1: could be the greatest thing that President Trump ever does.

845
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:23,320
Speaker 1: If he's ever looking for evidence of a deep state,

846
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:26,880
Speaker 1: this is it, because there really is as incredible as

847
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:30,720
Speaker 1: its arms. There really is a conspiracy inside the US

848
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:34,640
Speaker 1: intelligence and military community. A small group of people have

849
00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:37,719
Speaker 1: taken it upon themselves to keep secret from the American

850
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:42,160
Speaker 1: public that billions, possibly trillions of dollars have and are

851
00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:46,920
Speaker 1: being expended on programs to develop non human technology and

852
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:50,320
Speaker 1: to investigate non human intelligence, and for some reason, a

853
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:52,520
Speaker 1: decision has been made not to tell us the truth

854
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:55,640
Speaker 1: about that for the past eighty years. And I think

855
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 1: we're coming close now to a moment in history where

856
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:01,440
Speaker 1: I do think it's possible that President Trump or a

857
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:05,920
Speaker 1: future president will make the decision to finally tell the truth.

858
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:09,480
Speaker 2: Do you think it's potentially because they're trying to have

859
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:12,960
Speaker 2: military advantage and don't want to give away the military advantage,

860
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:15,279
Speaker 2: and therefore, as a result of that, they just keep

861
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:17,239
Speaker 2: it under the down low. Do you think that's what's

862
00:53:17,239 --> 00:53:19,600
Speaker 2: good because China might have to I.

863
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:22,239
Speaker 1: Would only be speculating. I mean, the interesting thing is

864
00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:25,759
Speaker 1: we just don't know. There is talk, for example, of agreements.

865
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:31,040
Speaker 1: There's speculation that in the nineteen fifties President Eisenhower made

866
00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:34,399
Speaker 1: an agreement with a non human intelligence, and there's been

867
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:39,640
Speaker 1: some suggestions that these agreements constrain humanity from being told.

868
00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:45,080
Speaker 1: It might also explain why there are these allegations, repeated

869
00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 1: allegations from literally thousands of people that they've been the

870
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:53,800
Speaker 1: subject of abductions or indeed mutilations. People waking up feeling

871
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:57,040
Speaker 1: that they've been abducted or taken by non human beings.

872
00:53:57,400 --> 00:53:59,279
Speaker 2: I've seen those. What do you think about those?

873
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:02,959
Speaker 1: I'm not I don't know. I mean, the bottom line

874
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 1: is what I do know is during the term of

875
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:13,040
Speaker 1: the UFO investigations in the Pentagon, there was an advice

876
00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:16,880
Speaker 1: that has leaked that was written for the information of

877
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:21,000
Speaker 1: an Undersecretary of Defense called Thomas Maudley, and it was

878
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:27,160
Speaker 1: entitled Defense Department Threat Scenario, and it said, the science

879
00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:30,359
Speaker 1: exists for an enemy of the United States to manipulate

880
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:35,400
Speaker 1: both physical and cognitive environments in order to penetrate US facilities,

881
00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:43,520
Speaker 1: influence decision makers, and compromise national security. It cited psychotronic weapons,

882
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:49,239
Speaker 1: weapons that can manipulate the human mind, cognitive human interface.

883
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:53,759
Speaker 1: God knows what that means, penetration of solid surfaces. I

884
00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:57,320
Speaker 1: think that's a reference to how nuclear missiles have actually

885
00:54:57,400 --> 00:55:06,000
Speaker 1: been disabled by UFO remotely instantaneous sensor disassembly. Again, the

886
00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:12,319
Speaker 1: remote disassembly of sensor systems, alteration and manipulation of biological organisms,

887
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:19,200
Speaker 1: anomalies in the space time construct unique cognitive human interface experiences.

888
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:23,040
Speaker 1: It told the Defense Department. And this is a formal

889
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:27,520
Speaker 1: document that leaked. Defense has been involved in similar experiments

890
00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:32,160
Speaker 1: in the past. It has relationships with renowned subject matter experts,

891
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:37,600
Speaker 1: and it controls several facilities where activities have been detected,

892
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:42,160
Speaker 1: and it warned senior defense officials that what was once

893
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:48,680
Speaker 1: considered phenomena is now quantum physics. That's what the Defense

894
00:55:48,719 --> 00:55:52,520
Speaker 1: Department of the United States is being advised right now

895
00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:57,080
Speaker 1: by its experts about UAPs. It's being told that there

896
00:55:57,120 --> 00:55:59,920
Speaker 1: is a threat scenario. I don't necessarily agree with that,

897
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:03,439
Speaker 1: but essentially, anything that the military doesn't understand is by

898
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 1: definition a threat. But essentially, yeah, I mean, there is

899
00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:13,120
Speaker 1: huge paranoia inside the US and they've created in the

900
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:17,560
Speaker 1: United States a body to investigate UAPs. It's a joke

901
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:20,879
Speaker 1: because it's not properly funded and it's got people manipulating

902
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:25,800
Speaker 1: its intentions. It's called the All Domain Anomaly Resolution Office,

903
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:29,120
Speaker 1: which is a ridiculously oblique name. But they've issued a

904
00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:34,320
Speaker 1: report which acknowledged officially for the first time that UAPs

905
00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:40,000
Speaker 1: unidentified anomalous phenomena are real. And in twenty twenty one

906
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:42,759
Speaker 1: they issued a formal report that was tabled in the

907
00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:46,800
Speaker 1: Congress that's certified for the first time that this phenomena,

908
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:51,280
Speaker 1: whatever it is, it's real. So we're past the point

909
00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:55,359
Speaker 1: now where people can nervously giggle and titter and say, oh,

910
00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:58,080
Speaker 1: it's all rubbish. All this UFO stuff is complete rubbish.

911
00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:01,799
Speaker 1: There is a phalang of skeptics who basically say it's

912
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:06,719
Speaker 1: all rubbish. But frankly, the Pentagon's taking it very seriously,

913
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:08,960
Speaker 1: and I'm talking all the time to people in the

914
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:11,880
Speaker 1: military and the intelligence community who think that this is

915
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:15,919
Speaker 1: something that needs to be taken very seriously. Indeed, they

916
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:18,920
Speaker 1: think that we're heading towards a disclosure. In fact, a

917
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:23,920
Speaker 1: very senior policy advisor to the acting National Security Advisor,

918
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:27,800
Speaker 1: Marco Rubio, who's also Secretary of State, he actually said

919
00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:31,720
Speaker 1: recently in an article written by a guy called Michael Schellenberger,

920
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:37,440
Speaker 1: that disclosure is imminent, and basically there's a view that

921
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:40,840
Speaker 1: it's becoming untenable for the White House the current Trump

922
00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:44,920
Speaker 1: administration to continue the pretense. I do think that probably

923
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:47,720
Speaker 1: within the next year or two, the government will tell

924
00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:49,920
Speaker 1: the truth to some degree, but I think their hand

925
00:57:49,960 --> 00:57:53,800
Speaker 1: will be forced. I suspect non human intelligences are doing

926
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:56,000
Speaker 1: their level best to let themselves be seen.

927
00:57:56,960 --> 00:58:00,240
Speaker 2: Why do you think that is? Why would they do that?

928
00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:02,320
Speaker 2: They potentially they just want to be friendly, or they

929
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:03,440
Speaker 2: want to communicate with us.

930
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:07,280
Speaker 1: Or I think one of the things I've discovered in

931
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:10,200
Speaker 1: the course of doing this work Mark is there is

932
00:58:10,240 --> 00:58:14,600
Speaker 1: a spiritual side to the phenomenon. If we ask the

933
00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:19,160
Speaker 1: question are we alone, we're also asking the question where

934
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:22,840
Speaker 1: do we humans come from? Why are we here, what's

935
00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:26,080
Speaker 1: the purpose of our lives? And more importantly, what happens

936
00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:30,960
Speaker 1: to humans after our biological bodies die. There's an increasing

937
00:58:31,120 --> 00:58:35,160
Speaker 1: school of thought, mainly rooted around ideas from quantum science,

938
00:58:35,680 --> 00:58:39,280
Speaker 1: that consciousness, human consciousness, the very thing that we would

939
00:58:39,320 --> 00:58:44,280
Speaker 1: call a soul if you like, our very sense of ourselves,

940
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:48,680
Speaker 1: is not biological, that it's not made by a meat

941
00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:53,840
Speaker 1: computer inside our brains, That essentially consciousness may in fact

942
00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:59,040
Speaker 1: be non local, and that the human brain has a capacity,

943
00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:04,640
Speaker 1: which it has long underutilized, to engage non locally with

944
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:09,040
Speaker 1: a unitary consciousness. In fact, the suggestion is that human

945
00:59:09,240 --> 00:59:13,320
Speaker 1: ideas of individuality and free will may be a complete misnomer.

946
00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:17,240
Speaker 1: We may in fact be part of one uber consciousness,

947
00:59:17,720 --> 00:59:21,000
Speaker 1: and that essentially the reason why we're here on this planet.

948
00:59:21,040 --> 00:59:23,000
Speaker 1: And this is something that a lot of non human

949
00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:28,600
Speaker 1: intelligencers tell people who are experiences, people who've witnessed phenomena,

950
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:33,600
Speaker 1: and they often have communications with these purported beings who

951
00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:36,880
Speaker 1: tell them that you humans have no idea how powerful

952
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:40,560
Speaker 1: and how important that you are. The idea being that

953
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:43,920
Speaker 1: somehow we are we have abilities and the abilities that

954
00:59:43,960 --> 00:59:47,240
Speaker 1: we don't realize. There's a whole school of thought that

955
00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:52,080
Speaker 1: consciousness is non local, and that when we die, whatever

956
00:59:52,120 --> 00:59:54,640
Speaker 1: it is that happens to us when we die, what

957
00:59:54,680 --> 00:59:57,919
Speaker 1: we call our souls, does survive and it becomes part

958
00:59:57,960 --> 00:59:59,840
Speaker 1: of a unitary mass consciousness.

959
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:04,640
Speaker 2: The question, you go, I mean we have It's funny,

960
01:00:04,640 --> 01:00:06,640
Speaker 2: you should say, because I recently talking to a quantum

961
01:00:06,680 --> 01:00:11,600
Speaker 2: physicist and he was explaining to me and which led

962
01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:13,920
Speaker 2: me then to go and read Schroding his book called

963
01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:18,040
Speaker 2: the Universal Consciousness Schroding and being the you know, the

964
01:00:18,080 --> 01:00:22,000
Speaker 2: famous quantum physicists for those listening, who probably in the

965
01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:24,560
Speaker 2: twentieth century, outside of Einstein, would have been our most

966
01:00:24,600 --> 01:00:29,600
Speaker 2: famous physicist, Australian but American. But and he of course

967
01:00:29,640 --> 01:00:32,840
Speaker 2: had the you know, the famous think, the famous concept

968
01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:36,000
Speaker 2: called Schroding His cat whereby something can be in two

969
01:00:36,080 --> 01:00:40,360
Speaker 2: places at any one time, so duality and probably plurality.

970
01:00:40,520 --> 01:00:44,360
Speaker 2: And he wrote a book because you know, he tried

971
01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:46,640
Speaker 2: to and I've been trying to this myself for some time,

972
01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:48,000
Speaker 2: which is one of the reason I'm interested to talk

973
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:50,040
Speaker 2: to you today. I'm glad we got to a tear now,

974
01:00:51,080 --> 01:00:53,520
Speaker 2: you know, trying to reconcile the concept of God with

975
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:57,480
Speaker 2: science and or concept of something called God. I mean,

976
01:00:57,520 --> 01:00:59,320
Speaker 2: you can call it what if you like. But and

977
01:00:59,600 --> 01:01:03,200
Speaker 2: this whole concept of Schroding it tried to reconcile that

978
01:01:03,280 --> 01:01:05,920
Speaker 2: this is some timing, is like in the twentieth century TODs,

979
01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:11,560
Speaker 2: but that all of our consciousness which possesses us right now,

980
01:01:11,600 --> 01:01:15,640
Speaker 2: as whilst we are biologically alive, when we pass that

981
01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:20,120
Speaker 2: energy that and it's an energy form, and you know,

982
01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:23,880
Speaker 2: and one of the fundamental laws of thermodynamics is that

983
01:01:24,640 --> 01:01:28,840
Speaker 2: in terms of physics is that energy never dies, it

984
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:32,280
Speaker 2: just changes form. That's called the conservation of energy. And

985
01:01:32,920 --> 01:01:35,480
Speaker 2: as you know, and but just for the sake of listeners,

986
01:01:36,200 --> 01:01:38,480
Speaker 2: that energy has got to go somewhere. And I think

987
01:01:38,640 --> 01:01:41,040
Speaker 2: what you're saying, and what Schroding was saying, is it

988
01:01:41,040 --> 01:01:43,080
Speaker 2: all ends up in this one place. Now, it's not

989
01:01:43,120 --> 01:01:46,160
Speaker 2: a place it can be. You know, they connected all

990
01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:49,360
Speaker 2: around the universe, however big the universe is. But this

991
01:01:49,520 --> 01:01:53,720
Speaker 2: universal consciousness is that's called it God. It's sort of

992
01:01:54,120 --> 01:01:57,120
Speaker 2: it's a thing that makes things happen. But if you

993
01:01:57,120 --> 01:02:00,040
Speaker 2: could go beyond one more part of that is that

994
01:02:00,760 --> 01:02:03,800
Speaker 2: are you and me and everybody that we see today

995
01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:06,400
Speaker 2: and tomorrow in the next twenty years part of a

996
01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:11,400
Speaker 2: simulation that that consciousness is directing puppeteering, so to speak.

997
01:02:12,080 --> 01:02:14,320
Speaker 2: And you know, and then we think about then we

998
01:02:14,400 --> 01:02:19,240
Speaker 2: think about, you know, Buddhism, and you know, you know,

999
01:02:19,320 --> 01:02:22,360
Speaker 2: we we sort of come back as another in another form,

1000
01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:27,120
Speaker 2: and that consciousness and gets let's call it recycled. There

1001
01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:28,880
Speaker 2: are these are ancient things, as you know.

1002
01:02:30,040 --> 01:02:32,240
Speaker 1: They go right back in the Vedic tradition, the mart

1003
01:02:32,800 --> 01:02:36,240
Speaker 1: and they also permeate Buddhist ideas. And the interesting thing

1004
01:02:36,360 --> 01:02:39,360
Speaker 1: is there's a consistent theme. The consistent theme is that

1005
01:02:39,400 --> 01:02:42,840
Speaker 1: we are souls that have elected to have time on

1006
01:02:42,880 --> 01:02:47,080
Speaker 1: this planet to give that wider consciousness the experience of

1007
01:02:47,160 --> 01:02:50,400
Speaker 1: knowing what it's like to suffer and to love. And

1008
01:02:50,920 --> 01:02:53,880
Speaker 1: maybe that's our purpose. Maybe the purpose of our existence

1009
01:02:53,960 --> 01:02:58,040
Speaker 1: is to essentially educate a broader consciousness. It's really interesting

1010
01:02:58,080 --> 01:03:01,120
Speaker 1: because I never expected to go down that rabbit hole

1011
01:03:01,120 --> 01:03:03,920
Speaker 1: when I was doing this investigation, but to me, it's

1012
01:03:03,960 --> 01:03:06,720
Speaker 1: been one of the most rewarding aspects of this research.

1013
01:03:07,040 --> 01:03:09,200
Speaker 1: I've come into contact with some of the world's most

1014
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:15,360
Speaker 1: brilliant scientists, people like Sir Roger Penrose and Professor Stewart Hammeroff,

1015
01:03:15,600 --> 01:03:19,720
Speaker 1: who've coined this idea of non local consciousness. I intended

1016
01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:23,000
Speaker 1: a conference in Spain on consciousness in May this year,

1017
01:03:23,520 --> 01:03:26,520
Speaker 1: and one of the dominant areas of conversation was this

1018
01:03:26,640 --> 01:03:31,200
Speaker 1: idea that consciousness is non local, that we're not meat computers,

1019
01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:34,480
Speaker 1: because so much of medical science has based the idea

1020
01:03:34,560 --> 01:03:38,840
Speaker 1: around the notion that we humans are just biological lumps

1021
01:03:38,840 --> 01:03:42,080
Speaker 1: of meat, and that notions of a soul, notions of

1022
01:03:42,360 --> 01:03:45,560
Speaker 1: an id a complete nonsense, and that when we die,

1023
01:03:45,840 --> 01:03:49,320
Speaker 1: whatever we were dies with us, with our biological bodies.

1024
01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:53,360
Speaker 1: I'm actually having talked to so many people now increasingly

1025
01:03:53,440 --> 01:03:55,960
Speaker 1: spiritual as a result of what I'm talking to people

1026
01:03:55,960 --> 01:03:59,320
Speaker 1: about and the other thing that fascinates me, and this

1027
01:03:59,440 --> 01:04:03,520
Speaker 1: is a theme that runs through science. So many scientists

1028
01:04:03,600 --> 01:04:07,320
Speaker 1: tell me that some of their cleverest ideas have actually

1029
01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:13,000
Speaker 1: come to them in downloads inspiration. Where does intuition and

1030
01:04:13,120 --> 01:04:17,000
Speaker 1: inspiration come from. Could it be that when you're a

1031
01:04:17,040 --> 01:04:22,080
Speaker 1: scientist working on maybe understanding, say the DNA helix. Francis Crick,

1032
01:04:22,200 --> 01:04:25,560
Speaker 1: who designed the DNA helix and conceived it, he said

1033
01:04:25,600 --> 01:04:28,880
Speaker 1: he fell asleep by the fire and conceived the idea

1034
01:04:28,960 --> 01:04:32,440
Speaker 1: of the double helix in a dream. Was that dream

1035
01:04:32,680 --> 01:04:38,800
Speaker 1: him plugging into a unitary consciousness was something seeding humanity

1036
01:04:38,880 --> 01:04:43,040
Speaker 1: with ideas. I'm talking all the time now as a journalist,

1037
01:04:43,120 --> 01:04:45,640
Speaker 1: since I started talking about this issue to people who

1038
01:04:45,680 --> 01:04:50,760
Speaker 1: claim they're getting downloads from a non human consciousness. And

1039
01:04:51,360 --> 01:04:54,720
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's true. I can't possibly assert that

1040
01:04:54,760 --> 01:04:57,560
Speaker 1: it's true, but there are people who are saying we

1041
01:04:57,640 --> 01:05:02,480
Speaker 1: are coming towards a tipping point in human consciousness. It's

1042
01:05:02,520 --> 01:05:07,480
Speaker 1: a convergence point where not only do we become aware

1043
01:05:07,560 --> 01:05:10,600
Speaker 1: of a non human intelligence, we also have the convergence

1044
01:05:10,680 --> 01:05:15,520
Speaker 1: with AI artificial intelligence, which is apparently much more significant

1045
01:05:15,560 --> 01:05:20,400
Speaker 1: than we humans realize. And whatever the NHI are, if

1046
01:05:20,440 --> 01:05:23,600
Speaker 1: they're real, they're telling a lot of people who talk

1047
01:05:23,680 --> 01:05:27,720
Speaker 1: to me that humanity is about to find out what

1048
01:05:27,840 --> 01:05:31,800
Speaker 1: they really are, and that what's needed is for humans

1049
01:05:31,840 --> 01:05:37,439
Speaker 1: to become much more conscious, much more spiritually aware and

1050
01:05:37,600 --> 01:05:40,520
Speaker 1: frankly knowing what I know. If I had my way

1051
01:05:40,520 --> 01:05:43,440
Speaker 1: as a prime minister, I'd basically mandate that every child

1052
01:05:43,560 --> 01:05:46,880
Speaker 1: in school learns how to meditate and do yoga, because

1053
01:05:47,040 --> 01:05:50,080
Speaker 1: clearly a large part of what we're talking about here

1054
01:05:50,200 --> 01:05:53,520
Speaker 1: is the need for humans to learn how to use

1055
01:05:53,600 --> 01:05:56,520
Speaker 1: their minds in ways that I think we've probably lost

1056
01:05:56,520 --> 01:06:00,120
Speaker 1: the ability to use with both social media and the

1057
01:06:00,200 --> 01:06:05,920
Speaker 1: increasing sort of technologicalization of our society. There is something

1058
01:06:06,120 --> 01:06:12,120
Speaker 1: pure about a tribal society that experienced non human phenomena.

1059
01:06:12,960 --> 01:06:16,480
Speaker 1: Were they seeing things? You know? Were the Aborigines who

1060
01:06:16,560 --> 01:06:19,840
Speaker 1: talked about the dream time stories and saw spiritual beings?

1061
01:06:20,280 --> 01:06:24,040
Speaker 1: Were they actually seeing spiritual beings? Because they were much

1062
01:06:24,040 --> 01:06:27,280
Speaker 1: more connected with their spiritual side than we humans are today.

1063
01:06:28,000 --> 01:06:30,640
Speaker 1: And the interesting thing that I find, seven or eight

1064
01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:33,400
Speaker 1: years into my journey looking at what I thought was

1065
01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:36,160
Speaker 1: just going to turn out to be American Black World aerospace,

1066
01:06:36,720 --> 01:06:40,560
Speaker 1: is I increasingly find myself on a spiritual journey. And

1067
01:06:40,680 --> 01:06:44,040
Speaker 1: every scientist I talked to, all of them have got

1068
01:06:44,040 --> 01:06:48,120
Speaker 1: stories about how their moment of inspiration came to them

1069
01:06:48,240 --> 01:06:51,600
Speaker 1: in a dream or an intuition. When Paul McCartney for example,

1070
01:06:51,640 --> 01:06:54,440
Speaker 1: wrote yesterday he literally had a dream and the lyrics

1071
01:06:54,440 --> 01:06:57,080
Speaker 1: for yesterday were in his head. He woke up wrote

1072
01:06:57,080 --> 01:06:59,240
Speaker 1: out the lyrics. He's never been able to explain where

1073
01:06:59,240 --> 01:07:02,880
Speaker 1: that came from. This has happened time and time again

1074
01:07:03,240 --> 01:07:08,360
Speaker 1: in science and creativity. Some of the great writers say

1075
01:07:08,440 --> 01:07:11,439
Speaker 1: that when they write, they're not writing, there's a voice

1076
01:07:11,480 --> 01:07:15,000
Speaker 1: in their head that's telling them what to write. I'm

1077
01:07:15,040 --> 01:07:18,240
Speaker 1: fascinated by this, and I'm actually thinking quite seriously about

1078
01:07:18,280 --> 01:07:21,960
Speaker 1: writing a book called Downloads, because I think that there

1079
01:07:22,040 --> 01:07:26,640
Speaker 1: is something to the idea that maybe some humans, when

1080
01:07:26,640 --> 01:07:29,800
Speaker 1: they get to a certain level of proficiency, they tap

1081
01:07:29,840 --> 01:07:35,120
Speaker 1: into that unitary consciousness and it starts leaking ideas to them.

1082
01:07:35,160 --> 01:07:38,200
Speaker 1: So many of the great scientific discoveries of our time.

1083
01:07:38,360 --> 01:07:44,080
Speaker 1: Nikola Tesla alternating Current DC Current. He had dreams about

1084
01:07:44,160 --> 01:07:47,560
Speaker 1: how he could design the machines that he eventually made,

1085
01:07:47,960 --> 01:07:51,720
Speaker 1: time and time again. There are scientists that describe these breakthroughs,

1086
01:07:52,040 --> 01:07:55,520
Speaker 1: and when they're really pushed on it, it's spiritual for them.

1087
01:07:56,120 --> 01:07:58,280
Speaker 2: I have a very good friend as a scientist currently

1088
01:07:58,320 --> 01:08:05,120
Speaker 2: in San Francisco, PhD brain scientist, and she's been telling

1089
01:08:05,160 --> 01:08:09,920
Speaker 2: me about the number of people that she's been and

1090
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:17,040
Speaker 2: like highly regarded, highly peer reviewed publishers of science, but

1091
01:08:17,120 --> 01:08:21,240
Speaker 2: not not biological science. We're talking about beyond that, and

1092
01:08:21,680 --> 01:08:24,680
Speaker 2: you know, beyond beyond biology, like in the chemistry, then

1093
01:08:24,720 --> 01:08:31,400
Speaker 2: the physics, and beyond computing, quantum computing even even and

1094
01:08:31,439 --> 01:08:36,080
Speaker 2: they're they're The big discussion right now is around consciousness.

1095
01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:40,920
Speaker 2: A big discussion is around consciousness and telepathy. I know

1096
01:08:41,000 --> 01:08:44,320
Speaker 2: this sounds all wacky, you know, blah blah blah, not

1097
01:08:44,360 --> 01:08:47,720
Speaker 2: to you and I, but but to orus, what are

1098
01:08:47,760 --> 01:08:51,040
Speaker 2: you going on about? But this is listen to me.

1099
01:08:51,200 --> 01:08:54,439
Speaker 2: This is a big discussion around the world. We may

1100
01:08:54,479 --> 01:08:56,599
Speaker 2: not most people are not involved in a day day

1101
01:08:56,600 --> 01:08:58,360
Speaker 2: because we're interested in interest rates and what it's going

1102
01:08:58,400 --> 01:09:00,760
Speaker 2: to do to my mortgage or whatever. Tends to sort

1103
01:09:00,760 --> 01:09:04,920
Speaker 2: of dominate our lives. But beyond beyond what dominates our

1104
01:09:04,960 --> 01:09:06,680
Speaker 2: lives at the moment, there's a lot of people talking

1105
01:09:06,680 --> 01:09:09,800
Speaker 2: about this sort of stuff and right down to the point.

1106
01:09:09,800 --> 01:09:13,519
Speaker 2: And I'm not advocating for this at all, but people

1107
01:09:13,880 --> 01:09:16,880
Speaker 2: microdosing and psychedelics, etc. And by the way, a lot

1108
01:09:16,920 --> 01:09:19,879
Speaker 2: of the ancient civilizations used to do this to connect

1109
01:09:20,120 --> 01:09:25,880
Speaker 2: themselves with perhaps this universal consciousness. To they used to

1110
01:09:25,920 --> 01:09:28,160
Speaker 2: think they're speaking to ancestors, but it doesn't really matter.

1111
01:09:28,200 --> 01:09:30,639
Speaker 2: They might have been speaking to ancestors spirit that's called

1112
01:09:30,720 --> 01:09:33,000
Speaker 2: spirit or their physics.

1113
01:09:33,760 --> 01:09:37,160
Speaker 1: I think the evidence for the use of magic mushrooms

1114
01:09:37,800 --> 01:09:39,840
Speaker 1: as a way of psilocybin as a way of treating

1115
01:09:39,880 --> 01:09:43,760
Speaker 1: people with extreme trauma is overwhelming. I've got friends in

1116
01:09:43,760 --> 01:09:47,800
Speaker 1: the United States who are self dosing with magic mushrooms

1117
01:09:47,800 --> 01:09:51,040
Speaker 1: in Mexico because they can't get enough of the psilocybin

1118
01:09:51,120 --> 01:09:53,160
Speaker 1: on the program that they were being treated on as

1119
01:09:53,200 --> 01:09:56,400
Speaker 1: part of a veteran's affairs study in the United States

1120
01:09:56,479 --> 01:10:00,920
Speaker 1: into treating post traumatic disorder. And what really interesting is

1121
01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:03,599
Speaker 1: it's having an incredible effect. They can feel it healing

1122
01:10:03,640 --> 01:10:06,920
Speaker 1: them just on telepathy. One of the things I've done

1123
01:10:06,960 --> 01:10:10,080
Speaker 1: for my show is I've interviewed a woman called Kai Dickens,

1124
01:10:10,439 --> 01:10:14,040
Speaker 1: who's a filmmaker who stumbled across evidence written by a

1125
01:10:14,040 --> 01:10:19,599
Speaker 1: scientist called Diane Hennessy Powell, a Harvard trained psychiatrist. She's

1126
01:10:19,600 --> 01:10:22,960
Speaker 1: a professor of psychiatry. Diane discovered that there were a

1127
01:10:22,960 --> 01:10:26,960
Speaker 1: lot of non verbal autistic children in the United States

1128
01:10:27,280 --> 01:10:31,880
Speaker 1: whose moms credited them with being telepathic, that they were

1129
01:10:31,920 --> 01:10:35,679
Speaker 1: able to communicate telepathically with kids on the other side

1130
01:10:35,680 --> 01:10:39,240
Speaker 1: of the United States. And so Diane started researching this

1131
01:10:39,400 --> 01:10:42,439
Speaker 1: and she brought Kai in, who's made an amazing series

1132
01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:46,040
Speaker 1: called the Telepathy Tapes that's available on all good podcasts.

1133
01:10:46,640 --> 01:10:50,000
Speaker 1: And this Telepathy Tape series has just gone crazy because,

1134
01:10:51,080 --> 01:10:54,680
Speaker 1: as the Telepathy Tapes reveals, it is the case that

1135
01:10:54,800 --> 01:10:59,760
Speaker 1: autistic nonverbal children have developed telepathic abilities. And there's a

1136
01:10:59,760 --> 01:11:03,479
Speaker 1: place they call the Hill where they congregate in this

1137
01:11:03,840 --> 01:11:08,000
Speaker 1: psychic world where they are literally able to share information,

1138
01:11:08,160 --> 01:11:12,000
Speaker 1: and children who were previously thought of as being intellectually

1139
01:11:12,040 --> 01:11:15,760
Speaker 1: disabled or inferior in some way turned out to be

1140
01:11:15,840 --> 01:11:20,080
Speaker 1: intellectually superior, and they were sharing history with each other

1141
01:11:20,280 --> 01:11:23,400
Speaker 1: and working out how to do mathematics with each other.

1142
01:11:24,000 --> 01:11:27,960
Speaker 1: And they've no unbelievably, they tell me they've peer review

1143
01:11:28,280 --> 01:11:34,160
Speaker 1: proven the veracity of telepathy using these nonverbal autistic kids.

1144
01:11:34,720 --> 01:11:36,600
Speaker 1: And when I did a show about this on my

1145
01:11:36,720 --> 01:11:39,360
Speaker 1: Reality check show, which is watched by a lot of Australians,

1146
01:11:40,280 --> 01:11:42,639
Speaker 1: I was amazed because I've had calls now from people

1147
01:11:42,640 --> 01:11:45,640
Speaker 1: in the nonverbal autistic community in Australia, the mums of

1148
01:11:45,720 --> 01:11:49,160
Speaker 1: children who are nonverbal autistic kids here in Australia who

1149
01:11:49,200 --> 01:11:52,400
Speaker 1: tell me they're witnessing exactly the same thing among their kids.

1150
01:11:52,960 --> 01:11:56,800
Speaker 1: And it's almost as if it's a response by humans

1151
01:11:56,800 --> 01:11:59,719
Speaker 1: that don't have the power to speak, that are actually

1152
01:12:00,600 --> 01:12:05,920
Speaker 1: and socially disconnected from normal humans, that they've developed the

1153
01:12:06,200 --> 01:12:11,120
Speaker 1: incredible ability to communicate using their minds. And Kai and

1154
01:12:11,560 --> 01:12:15,880
Speaker 1: doctor Diane Hennessy Powell and another neuroscientist called doctor Julia

1155
01:12:15,960 --> 01:12:19,080
Speaker 1: Mossbridge have all done interviews with me where they speculate

1156
01:12:19,160 --> 01:12:22,840
Speaker 1: that what this is is some kind of vestigial, remnant

1157
01:12:23,120 --> 01:12:27,519
Speaker 1: human ability, that the human mind, probably through the pineal gland,

1158
01:12:27,680 --> 01:12:32,280
Speaker 1: does have the ability to engage non locally with other intelligences,

1159
01:12:32,720 --> 01:12:36,559
Speaker 1: but we just lost these abilities, and maybe things like

1160
01:12:36,880 --> 01:12:42,599
Speaker 1: astral traveling, remote viewing, telepathy, psychic phenomena, maybe these are real,

1161
01:12:43,280 --> 01:12:46,040
Speaker 1: and that what's happened is that we've allowed the decrying

1162
01:12:46,080 --> 01:12:50,360
Speaker 1: skeptics to manipulate the narrative for far too long. Maybe

1163
01:12:50,400 --> 01:12:53,800
Speaker 1: it's time to start taking this very seriously, because it emerges.

1164
01:12:54,200 --> 01:12:56,880
Speaker 1: The other thing that's come out with the declassification of

1165
01:12:56,920 --> 01:13:00,439
Speaker 1: the CIA's archives is that contrary to the imp that

1166
01:13:00,560 --> 01:13:03,360
Speaker 1: was given for many many years, it turns out that

1167
01:13:03,400 --> 01:13:07,640
Speaker 1: the US intelligence community has been taking psychic phenomena very seriously,

1168
01:13:07,680 --> 01:13:10,719
Speaker 1: indeed for many years, and it still does. It still

1169
01:13:10,920 --> 01:13:14,719
Speaker 1: uses remote viewers, and I'm in constant contact with people

1170
01:13:14,760 --> 01:13:18,160
Speaker 1: who are working as remote viewers for the US Defense Department.

1171
01:13:18,680 --> 01:13:22,280
Speaker 1: They still use these people with these purported psychic abilities

1172
01:13:22,640 --> 01:13:26,639
Speaker 1: to try to measure what their rivals, their potential foreign

1173
01:13:26,640 --> 01:13:27,640
Speaker 1: adversaries are up to.

1174
01:13:28,680 --> 01:13:31,360
Speaker 2: And maybe i'd just like to and help me out

1175
01:13:31,360 --> 01:13:34,240
Speaker 2: with this one, given your the depth of your work

1176
01:13:34,280 --> 01:13:39,400
Speaker 2: and everything, and your exposure and your interviews and your contacts,

1177
01:13:40,920 --> 01:13:43,280
Speaker 2: and once again, I'm trying to do a reconciliation here.

1178
01:13:43,280 --> 01:13:49,600
Speaker 2: But is the reconciliation that if we are having contact

1179
01:13:49,640 --> 01:13:58,160
Speaker 2: with non human beings, but non human beings and their

1180
01:13:58,479 --> 01:14:02,360
Speaker 2: aircraft or their craft which we don't understand how it's propelled,

1181
01:14:03,320 --> 01:14:06,040
Speaker 2: and the reason they are not a threat to us

1182
01:14:06,840 --> 01:14:11,679
Speaker 2: is because they have such an advance intelligence, an advance,

1183
01:14:12,040 --> 01:14:15,720
Speaker 2: such an advanced intellect that they don't see the need

1184
01:14:15,760 --> 01:14:19,000
Speaker 2: to be a threat like we do. So because we're

1185
01:14:19,000 --> 01:14:21,479
Speaker 2: nowhere near as advances, we see everything as a threat

1186
01:14:21,920 --> 01:14:24,280
Speaker 2: and therefore we then therefore we run like you know,

1187
01:14:24,320 --> 01:14:26,320
Speaker 2: we don't. We're scared of Russia and we're scared of China,

1188
01:14:26,360 --> 01:14:29,679
Speaker 2: you know, we're scared of everything. And therefore, because we're

1189
01:14:29,680 --> 01:14:31,760
Speaker 2: not that, we're not that intelligent, we haven't sort of

1190
01:14:31,760 --> 01:14:35,840
Speaker 2: gone above that, we don't participate in this universal consciousness.

1191
01:14:36,880 --> 01:14:41,120
Speaker 2: Do you think that the reconciliation of why these entities

1192
01:14:41,160 --> 01:14:43,280
Speaker 2: are not a threat to us, but they're just here,

1193
01:14:43,520 --> 01:14:45,320
Speaker 2: coming here for whatever reason, but they're not here to

1194
01:14:45,360 --> 01:14:48,639
Speaker 2: threaten us or who it hurt us, and therefore don't

1195
01:14:49,320 --> 01:14:52,840
Speaker 2: engage in a military militaristic sense. They don't because if

1196
01:14:52,840 --> 01:14:54,760
Speaker 2: they're they're that good and they're that advanced, they could

1197
01:14:54,800 --> 01:14:56,479
Speaker 2: come and just blast us off them off the map

1198
01:14:56,520 --> 01:14:58,559
Speaker 2: if they wanted to. I guess the reason they don't

1199
01:14:58,600 --> 01:15:01,719
Speaker 2: is because they're super intell and they've gone way past

1200
01:15:01,800 --> 01:15:05,760
Speaker 2: things like war. Only less intelligent people think about war.

1201
01:15:06,120 --> 01:15:08,400
Speaker 2: Do you think is that a way you can you

1202
01:15:08,479 --> 01:15:09,839
Speaker 2: try to reconcile this stuff?

1203
01:15:10,280 --> 01:15:13,200
Speaker 1: Anything I say here is totally speculative, I mean totally,

1204
01:15:13,360 --> 01:15:17,800
Speaker 1: nobody's got any answers. But yep. Firstly, there have been

1205
01:15:17,920 --> 01:15:21,320
Speaker 1: non human intelligences that have acted offensively. It's a very

1206
01:15:21,439 --> 01:15:26,160
Speaker 1: rare thing. But at a place called Wahina in Brazil,

1207
01:15:26,439 --> 01:15:30,479
Speaker 1: A sorry Kolaras in Brazil, there were incidents where villagers

1208
01:15:30,560 --> 01:15:36,879
Speaker 1: were horribly mutilated, in some cases killed by craft with beams.

1209
01:15:37,000 --> 01:15:40,880
Speaker 1: These were reported by the Brazilian Army and Navy, and

1210
01:15:40,920 --> 01:15:45,080
Speaker 1: indeed the craft were photographed and there were extensive witness

1211
01:15:45,120 --> 01:15:49,560
Speaker 1: reports compiled by the Brazilian military. These are publicly available

1212
01:15:49,600 --> 01:15:54,760
Speaker 1: files into the so called Kolara's incidents. But broadly you're right,

1213
01:15:55,000 --> 01:15:58,640
Speaker 1: I mean most of the NHI, the non human intelligences

1214
01:15:58,680 --> 01:16:04,559
Speaker 1: that people report allegedly benevolently inclined. But the interesting thing is,

1215
01:16:04,640 --> 01:16:06,840
Speaker 1: as some people have pointed out to me, are they

1216
01:16:06,880 --> 01:16:10,880
Speaker 1: benevolently inclined towards humans or are they more inclined to

1217
01:16:10,960 --> 01:16:14,519
Speaker 1: protecting this planet? Because a lot of the focus seems

1218
01:16:14,520 --> 01:16:16,960
Speaker 1: to be on the ecological damage that we're causing to

1219
01:16:17,000 --> 01:16:20,320
Speaker 1: this planet through the use of nuclear weapons and the

1220
01:16:20,400 --> 01:16:24,200
Speaker 1: polluting technologies that we've created and that we deploy, And

1221
01:16:24,280 --> 01:16:27,920
Speaker 1: so I worry sometimes that it's not humans that they

1222
01:16:28,000 --> 01:16:31,639
Speaker 1: care about more than this incredible duel of a planet

1223
01:16:31,640 --> 01:16:34,519
Speaker 1: that we're so lucky to live on. Are they more

1224
01:16:34,560 --> 01:16:40,120
Speaker 1: concerned because they are perhaps crypto terrestrial? The Pentagon's been

1225
01:16:40,240 --> 01:16:44,920
Speaker 1: very conspicuous in avoiding answering the question. They've categorically stated

1226
01:16:45,479 --> 01:16:49,120
Speaker 1: on the record that there is no evidence of extra

1227
01:16:49,320 --> 01:16:53,400
Speaker 1: terrestrial engagement with this planet. And that's interesting because when

1228
01:16:53,439 --> 01:16:55,280
Speaker 1: we've asked them if we can say there is no

1229
01:16:55,400 --> 01:16:59,080
Speaker 1: evidence of non human intelligence engagement with this planet, they

1230
01:16:59,120 --> 01:17:02,080
Speaker 1: refuse to answer the question. And I think it's because

1231
01:17:02,280 --> 01:17:05,360
Speaker 1: they know that there is a non human intelligence engaging

1232
01:17:05,400 --> 01:17:10,040
Speaker 1: with this planet, and that it's possibly intra terrestrial or

1233
01:17:10,120 --> 01:17:14,599
Speaker 1: crypto terrestrial. It's sharing this planet with us, or perhaps

1234
01:17:15,120 --> 01:17:18,640
Speaker 1: it's interdimensional, which is what David Grush suggested to me

1235
01:17:18,760 --> 01:17:22,719
Speaker 1: he'd learned when he was doing his investigations. David Grush

1236
01:17:23,760 --> 01:17:26,320
Speaker 1: said that he'd been told that some of the beings

1237
01:17:26,360 --> 01:17:30,960
Speaker 1: involved were inter dimensional, but really we don't know. But

1238
01:17:31,040 --> 01:17:33,479
Speaker 1: I do worry that what they're more motivated to worry

1239
01:17:33,520 --> 01:17:36,200
Speaker 1: about is not caring for us humans, but more caring

1240
01:17:36,240 --> 01:17:38,800
Speaker 1: about the ecology of our planet, because a lot of

1241
01:17:38,840 --> 01:17:41,479
Speaker 1: the conversations that people purport to have had with n

1242
01:17:41,640 --> 01:17:45,040
Speaker 1: HI involve the beings saying they're very worried about what

1243
01:17:45,080 --> 01:17:48,240
Speaker 1: we humans are doing to our planet. And is it

1244
01:17:48,280 --> 01:17:51,280
Speaker 1: because they're sharing this planet with us? And is that

1245
01:17:51,320 --> 01:17:53,599
Speaker 1: why the Pentagon's being able to get away with rather

1246
01:17:53,680 --> 01:17:57,040
Speaker 1: sort of neat evasion because they know they're not largely

1247
01:17:57,320 --> 01:18:00,519
Speaker 1: extra terrestrial. They're not from somewhere else in the Soul system.

1248
01:18:00,880 --> 01:18:04,680
Speaker 1: But maybe they are crypto terrestrial or intraterrestrial in that

1249
01:18:04,680 --> 01:18:07,920
Speaker 1: they're sharing this planet with us. We just don't know.

1250
01:18:08,520 --> 01:18:11,799
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean I do agree broadly. The theme

1251
01:18:12,120 --> 01:18:15,519
Speaker 1: most of the time is that these are largely benevolent beings.

1252
01:18:16,640 --> 01:18:19,040
Speaker 2: Wow, A lot to think about here, Ross, that was

1253
01:18:19,400 --> 01:18:21,960
Speaker 2: and that was amazing. I really enjoyed that. And what's

1254
01:18:22,000 --> 01:18:22,800
Speaker 2: your show called again?

1255
01:18:22,800 --> 01:18:27,080
Speaker 1: Please? I do a show called reality Check which airs

1256
01:18:27,120 --> 01:18:30,200
Speaker 1: both on News Nation on the National News channel in

1257
01:18:30,240 --> 01:18:33,000
Speaker 1: the United States, but also on YouTube. So if you

1258
01:18:33,000 --> 01:18:36,679
Speaker 1: go to Ross Coulthart YouTube and put in reality Check,

1259
01:18:36,720 --> 01:18:37,639
Speaker 1: you'll find my show.

1260
01:18:38,720 --> 01:18:41,639
Speaker 2: And just and just in closing, could you just give

1261
01:18:41,720 --> 01:18:45,439
Speaker 2: us a couple of minutes on your exploits into Peru.

1262
01:18:46,080 --> 01:18:48,840
Speaker 1: Oh sure, I've just been to Peru. And as well

1263
01:18:48,880 --> 01:18:52,960
Speaker 1: as looking at the megalithic ancient megalithic ruins in Peru

1264
01:18:53,120 --> 01:18:59,800
Speaker 1: such as Matthew Piku and Sak saksee Waman, incredible carve

1265
01:19:00,120 --> 01:19:04,040
Speaker 1: granite blocks, granites of the hardness of Moe seven point

1266
01:19:04,080 --> 01:19:07,160
Speaker 1: five on the hardness scale. You can't cut it with rock,

1267
01:19:07,560 --> 01:19:10,320
Speaker 1: you can't cut it with bronze, and we know that

1268
01:19:10,360 --> 01:19:13,760
Speaker 1: the civilizations that existed thousands of years ago only at

1269
01:19:13,840 --> 01:19:18,960
Speaker 1: best had bronze adzes. How were these rocks shaped? I

1270
01:19:19,000 --> 01:19:23,120
Speaker 1: suspect they are evidence of a pre human or possibly

1271
01:19:23,520 --> 01:19:27,960
Speaker 1: highly advanced human megalithic civilization that we've lost sight of.

1272
01:19:28,680 --> 01:19:31,840
Speaker 1: While I was over there, I also saw the beings

1273
01:19:31,880 --> 01:19:36,559
Speaker 1: known as the tridactyls. There's been grave robbers in the

1274
01:19:36,680 --> 01:19:40,800
Speaker 1: nascre Atta Kama deserts of Peru and Chile who have

1275
01:19:41,040 --> 01:19:47,400
Speaker 1: recovered what are purportedly three fingered tridactyl beings, which are

1276
01:19:47,760 --> 01:19:52,840
Speaker 1: allegedly reptilian. I went there highly skeptical, thinking I was

1277
01:19:52,880 --> 01:19:55,800
Speaker 1: going to be seeing hoax dolls, which is what we've

1278
01:19:55,800 --> 01:19:58,479
Speaker 1: all been told by much of the news media. But

1279
01:19:58,920 --> 01:20:02,080
Speaker 1: what I actually saw were objects that had been properly

1280
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Speaker 1: scanned using CT tomography, and I could not explain how

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01:20:07,080 --> 01:20:13,080
Speaker 1: they were constructed. Whatever they are, their authentic, real, formally

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01:20:13,160 --> 01:20:18,040
Speaker 1: sentient beings that have highly advanced implants in their bodies.

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01:20:18,800 --> 01:20:21,520
Speaker 1: It appear to show signs of some kind of intelligence,

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Speaker 1: and yet they're possibly thousands of years old. So that's

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01:20:25,600 --> 01:20:28,040
Speaker 1: a real mystery in your face. And there's been a

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Speaker 1: real effort from the United States and sections of the

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01:20:32,400 --> 01:20:36,000
Speaker 1: Peruvian Ministry of Culture to try and discredit any attempt

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Speaker 1: to investigate them. And one of the things I know

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Speaker 1: is if somebody's telling you it's not a story and

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01:20:42,560 --> 01:20:44,960
Speaker 1: that you shouldn't be looking at it, it's a bloody

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01:20:44,960 --> 01:20:47,000
Speaker 1: good story and it deserves investigation.

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Speaker 2: Ross Coulthard, thanks very much, mate. That was awesome, so

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Speaker 2: bloody good.

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Speaker 1: Thanks very much mate.

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Speaker 2: You're welcome