Speaker 1: Two five is a group of suburbs South Sydney in
Speaker 1: the postcode two five one five and we wanted to
Speaker 1: sort of fast forward a community to the future. We
Speaker 1: are home to the first community led electrification pilot in Australia.
Speaker 2: We're going to help five hundred homes in the community
Speaker 2: electrifying one our hot water.
Speaker 3: In a coastal corner of Australia. Scientist Saul Griffith has
Speaker 3: been quietly working away on a plan to turn five
Speaker 3: hundred households completely off fossil fuels.
Speaker 1: We can do this electrification which will both decarbonize us.
Speaker 1: It should also lower our cost of energy and it
Speaker 1: should be able to be all possible with small changes
Speaker 1: to the local grid and then small changes to people's households.
Speaker 1: Why would we do that?
Speaker 3: An electric home uses less energy, it's cheaper to run,
Speaker 3: is healthier to live in and best of.
Speaker 1: All, if we do it together as a community, it's easier,
Speaker 1: hopefully a little more fun, and.
Speaker 3: We can show the rest of Australia how we can
Speaker 3: create our electric future today.
Speaker 1: And so we ran that project idea up the pole.
Speaker 1: That Arena Australias Neural Energy Agency arguing for the importance
Speaker 1: of this in terms of our national emissions and in
Speaker 1: terms of helping households through this energy transition.
Speaker 4: The Albanezi government through Arena is supporting the Electrified two
Speaker 4: five one five project with a grade of five point
Speaker 4: four million dollars.
Speaker 1: And so we got enough money to provide a small
Speaker 1: subsidy to a bunch of houses to electrify their stoves,
Speaker 1: their water heaters, their space heaters. Trying to figure out
Speaker 1: how to do this cheaper for all of the other
Speaker 1: communities that they are going to follow, figure out how
Speaker 1: to do it in fair and equitable way so that
Speaker 1: we can have a justin fair transition.
Speaker 3: And he hopes that what he achieves there can act
Speaker 3: as a blueprint for the rest of the country. But
Speaker 3: for that to become a reality, the federal government and
Speaker 3: industry would need to drastically increase their commitment.
Speaker 1: Well, if we were really shooting for a one and
Speaker 1: a half or two degree climate target, every Australian community
Speaker 1: would be pretty much fully electrified by early twenty forties.
Speaker 1: And so we know that if we do this it's
Speaker 1: going to save the country trillions of dollars. So you know,
Speaker 1: as well of us wanting to do it for climate reasons.
Speaker 1: It's just a good idea for the country.
Speaker 3: From Schwartz Media. I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven am today,
Speaker 3: chief scientist at Rewiring Australia. Saw Griffith on the electrification
Speaker 3: already underway and what both sides of politics are promising
Speaker 3: for our energy future. It's Tuesday, April twenty two, So
Speaker 3: Saul zooming out, where would you say that we are
Speaker 3: at in Australia right now in terms of households moving
Speaker 3: away from energy generated by fossil fuels to living in
Speaker 3: a clean electricity environment.
Speaker 1: We'd lead the world absolutely in terms of rooftop solar,
Speaker 1: like thirty five forty percent of homes now I have
Speaker 1: rooftop solar that probably will go all the way up
Speaker 1: to eighty percent because it just keeps getting to be
Speaker 1: cheaper and better economics. Cars we're not going as fast
Speaker 1: as we could compared to say Norway, where honestly, by
Speaker 1: the end of twenty twenty five nearly one hundred percent
Speaker 1: of vehicles will be electric. We are in the middle
Speaker 1: of the pack on heat pumps for water heating and
Speaker 1: space eating. We go about fifty percent at electric cooking.
Speaker 1: We're doing okay, not quite as good as Asia. So
Speaker 1: we're doing well and we have this structural advantage now
Speaker 1: cheap solar, but the long term savings overrunning them for
Speaker 1: ten or fifteen years on much much cheaper energy is
Speaker 1: where we save the money. So it's about getting that
Speaker 1: upfront assistance and that argues for a government's role in
Speaker 1: helping that.
Speaker 3: Let's talk about that a little more. I mean, there is,
Speaker 3: as you say, this huge uptake in solar. I think
Speaker 3: it's one in three Australian households that have solar panels now,
Speaker 3: but it's not the same with batteries. It's one in
Speaker 3: forty households that have a battery. So in that context,
Speaker 3: how significant is anthony easiest promise to subsidize home batteries.
Speaker 4: A lot of.
Speaker 1: People won't remember it, but it was under a Howard
Speaker 1: government where Howard first encouraged some rebates for solar and
Speaker 1: some generous feed in tariffs. That was in the early
Speaker 1: two thousands, and at that time solar was more expensive
Speaker 1: than it was from the grid. But offering those incentives
Speaker 1: it helped build an industry. It helped train the tradees
Speaker 1: who do the installations, It helped bring the cost of
Speaker 1: the product down and we're in the same place in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five with batteries as we were with solar
Speaker 1: in say twenty ten, so almost competitive with the market.
Speaker 1: So these incentives will help build capacity to install them,
Speaker 1: it will help the electricity distribution companies figure out how
Speaker 1: to absorb them into the grid, and it will bring
Speaker 1: down the cost for every future battery. So by the
Speaker 1: time this program has run its course, as is the
Speaker 1: case with solar today, the batteries will make total economic
Speaker 1: sense and so it looks like good policy, I suppose.
Speaker 3: So we're talking a lot about what individuals and what
Speaker 3: households can do and the ways in which those options
Speaker 3: might be cheaper, while obviously also coming with the advantage
Speaker 3: of being better for the environment. But what proportion of
Speaker 3: emissions in Australia actually come from household use?
Speaker 1: So in terms of how significant our household emissions in Australia,
Speaker 1: I think, first it's worth understanding sixty percent of our
Speaker 1: emissions are in support of our domestic economy. So that's
Speaker 1: burning gas in Australia to cook a meal, it's burning petrol,
Speaker 1: and Australia drive a car burning coal in Australia to
Speaker 1: use electricity use in Australia. But about forty percent of
Speaker 1: our emissions is dedicated to things that ultimately we ship
Speaker 1: overseas as part of our trade. So that's using diesel
Speaker 1: to mind coal or diesel to extract gas and then
Speaker 1: we send that overseas, and so those emissions happen overseas.
Speaker 1: So anyway, of the sixty percent of our emissions which
Speaker 1: are domestic, about forty two percent of those are from
Speaker 1: the cars in our households and the appliances in our households,
Speaker 1: and then another thirty percent of our emissions is our
Speaker 1: cars used in small business and commercially, and in our
Speaker 1: buildings used for small businesses and commercial activity including schools
Speaker 1: and churches and surf clubs. They go under the commercial sector.
Speaker 1: So seventy percent of our domestic emissions can be addressed
Speaker 1: with technologies that are available today, solar batteries, electric vehicles,
Speaker 1: electric appliances. I'm a strong proponent that we should be
Speaker 1: doing the things that work economically and work for emissions
Speaker 1: reductions right now, and that's where they are. And if
Speaker 1: we do that this decade, then we buy ourselves enough
Speaker 1: time for the remaining pieces of the industrial decarbonization puzzle
Speaker 1: to come into focus and to become economically viable. But
Speaker 1: the reality is we're a big export nation. That's where
Speaker 1: the very large contribution from industrial emissions happens in Australia
Speaker 1: is from from the diesel. It's used to pull the
Speaker 1: coal out of the ground and the natural gas out
Speaker 1: of the ground and send it off to Asian and
Speaker 1: European markets. So we need to be, if not first
Speaker 1: in top runner in the field in all of these
Speaker 1: big export industries that use huge amounts of energy. But
Speaker 1: we're not spending enough money on the research on the
Speaker 1: new processes. We're not really thinking outside the box, and
Speaker 1: that's because the industry is a slow moving and heavy
Speaker 1: hitting lobbyist.
Speaker 3: Coming up after the break, what does global leadership actually
Speaker 3: look like when it comes to facing the climate crisis.
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Speaker 3: So in terms of sort of political will, do you
Speaker 3: see either Dutton or Albanezi's approach as we get closer
Speaker 3: to this election and the promises that have been made
Speaker 3: as I suppose being up to meeting the challenge.
Speaker 1: Well, the headline the Future Made in Australia is pretty good,
Speaker 1: you know. The one challenge with Australia is we seem
Speaker 1: to very much like underwriting the existing market players as
Speaker 1: opposed to supporting disruptive innovation. So in theory we should
Speaker 1: all like Future Made in Australia. But if it's large
Speaker 1: hand oubts to the existing industries to go slow, that's
Speaker 1: not going to be as good as funding the young,
Speaker 1: hungry entrepreneurs who want to completely replace those industries with
Speaker 1: a better industry. So I'd like to see that happening.
Speaker 2: Under the coalition. Energy will become affordable and reliable.
Speaker 1: Again using Dutton really hasn't said anything about industrial policy
Speaker 1: and terms of energy policy. Nuclear that is almost certainly
Speaker 1: going to be publicly unpopular, isn't going to get in
Speaker 1: the ground until twenty forty, doesn't solve any real problems
Speaker 1: that the Australian grid has.
Speaker 2: We will join the other nineteen top economies in the
Speaker 2: world in adopting proven zero missions nuclear power. This is
Speaker 2: one of the most visionary and necessary policies put forward
Speaker 2: in our country's history.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's some good work. The brag Inquiry on
Speaker 1: the economics household electrication, which came from Liberals, pointed to
Speaker 1: the fact that this is good for the country and
Speaker 1: it's going to save people money. So there's a little
Speaker 1: bit to celebrate in all teams, But no big industrial
Speaker 1: vision for the nation from Dunton.
Speaker 2: And the only way to drive down power prices quickly
Speaker 2: is to ramp up domestic gas production and tonight I
Speaker 2: announce our national Gas Plan.
Speaker 1: But you know what we need is genuine political leadership
Speaker 1: as well as policy. We haven't really seen leading from
Speaker 1: the top on climate under this labor government. Chris Bam
Speaker 1: has been good, but the nation would like to hear
Speaker 1: it from the boss.
Speaker 4: Thirty three percent renewable energy on the day we came
Speaker 4: to office, forty six percent in the last quarter of
Speaker 4: last year, and renewables are set to overtake coal as
Speaker 4: the largest source of our electricity this year. That's good progress,
Speaker 4: but there's more to do, much more to do.
Speaker 1: The Independence and Greens are pushing the right things, but
Speaker 1: we just need to all of it needs to go
Speaker 1: so much faster than any politician is really conceiving of
Speaker 1: if we're going to have any hope of keeping the
Speaker 1: world under two degrees warming.
Speaker 3: In his Budget reply speech, Peter Dutton said that he
Speaker 3: would end labors rewiring the Nation Renewable Energy Focused Fund
Speaker 3: the nineteen point five billion dollar one in favor of gas,
Speaker 3: coal and nuclear. So can you just tell me a
Speaker 3: bit about how that money is currently spent and what
Speaker 3: would happen if Dunton was to get in and it
Speaker 3: was cut.
Speaker 1: Rewiring the Nation was twenty billion dollars earmarked for big
Speaker 1: transmission to move electricity long distance across Australia. My understanding
Speaker 1: is because the transmission companies get paid to build the
Speaker 1: wise that they've already allocated the great majority of that
Speaker 1: twenty billion dollars. It's already out the door. So I
Speaker 1: think Dutton's it's an empty promise. I don't think he
Speaker 1: can claw it back at this point. We also understand
Speaker 1: that one billion of that twenty got reallocated from rewiring
Speaker 1: the nation towards the HUE, which was the Home Energy
Speaker 1: Upgrade Fund to do household electrication and similar things. So
Speaker 1: maybe they could call that back. That would be a
Speaker 1: bad idea. It would be politically unpopular because it's helping
Speaker 1: households do things that make their cost a living lower.
Speaker 1: So feels like an empty threat to me.
Speaker 3: Okay. And just finally, as as back on the idea
Speaker 3: of leadership, you know, we hear a lot about the
Speaker 3: importance of global leadership when we're talking about climate change,
Speaker 3: But what type of leadership do you think is actually
Speaker 3: likely to influence schoolbal change.
Speaker 1: Well, the influence that really works is when you prove
Speaker 1: by example that this is a better way to live.
Speaker 1: This is the point of the two five to one
Speaker 1: to five project. And you know, it's pretty cool. We're
Speaker 1: oversubscribed on households who want to join. It's the I
Speaker 1: swim in my local swim pool every morning and there's
Speaker 1: somebody's asking me questions about this or that or the other,
Speaker 1: and it's sort of you can see it catching on
Speaker 1: and being a sort of good idea for the community.
Speaker 1: So that kind of leadership showing that it can work
Speaker 1: showing that it improves the economics for community, showing it
Speaker 1: on the global stage that helps everyone move along. Similarly,
Speaker 1: I have a friend in New Zealand, Mike Casey. He
Speaker 1: runs the world's first all electric cherry farm. He electrified
Speaker 1: his frost fans, he bought the first two electric tractors
Speaker 1: in the Southern Hemisphere, put giant amount of solar on
Speaker 1: his barn, and because of the nature of the electricity
Speaker 1: tariffs in New Zealand, he's able to I think he's
Speaker 1: saving forty to seventy thousand dollars a year on his
Speaker 1: cost of energy because electricity is so much cheaper than
Speaker 1: diesel to do the same thing. He's earning an extra
Speaker 1: twenty or thirty thousand dollars a year selling his excess
Speaker 1: solar electricity back into the grid. And honestly, that's a
Speaker 1: story that could be true for most Australian farmers. There's
Speaker 1: a huge opportunity in using our existing agricultural rooftops that's
Speaker 1: barns and sheds, putting solar on those, connecting those into
Speaker 1: the grid, fixing the regulatory and the electricity market rules
Speaker 1: so that the farmers get paid the same price as
Speaker 1: the other generators and then you would have I think
Speaker 1: you'd have a big change in the politics of electrification
Speaker 1: in the regions.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: So I look to the Coalition, I look to Done
Speaker 1: and like, there's a huge opportunity to help your people
Speaker 1: get on with this energy transition in a way that
Speaker 1: benefits them economically. So we've got a lot to boast
Speaker 1: in Australia because agricultural electrication for all but the largest
Speaker 1: combine harvesters is now a sensible, lower cost way to
Speaker 1: run farm, all electric households, lowest way to run your household,
Speaker 1: all electric cars, cheapest cars to run. So the economics
Speaker 1: is good. It's going to improve health outcomes. These machines
Speaker 1: are cheaper and easier to maintain because they've got fewer
Speaker 1: moving parts. Like, there's just a lot of winning to
Speaker 1: be had, and leadership is showing that winning happening in
Speaker 1: practice helping communities. I think with some creativity, our politicians
Speaker 1: could be speaking to a whole bunch of different constituencies
Speaker 1: in Australia on how this is going to be economically
Speaker 1: and culturally and health wise.
Speaker 3: Good for you, So thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 1: Thank you very much.
Speaker 3: Also in the news, today, a Peter Dutton led government
Speaker 3: would pilot a national register for child sex offenders. The
Speaker 3: Coalition has announced twelvemonth pilot program would allow parents to
Speaker 3: apply to police for information about whether an individual who
Speaker 3: interacts with their children is a convicted sex offender. It's
Speaker 3: part of the seven hundred and fifty million dollar package
Speaker 3: called Operation Safer Communities revealed over the easter break. The
Speaker 3: plan includes a tightening of border security and safety laws
Speaker 3: and extra funding for police. The Coalition is expected to
Speaker 3: focus on issues including national security, crime and defense in
Speaker 3: the lead up to the election on May three, and
Speaker 3: Anthony Abernesi has labeled Russia's attempts for a military presence
Speaker 3: in Indonesia as propaganda, as Moscow's ambassador to Indonesia said,
Speaker 3: Australia has no cards to play. As the Coalition continues
Speaker 3: to demand a briefing on the national security issue that
Speaker 3: has dominated the past week of the election debate, Senior
Speaker 3: Labour figures have mocked the request, with Anthony Albenzi saying
Speaker 3: he's waiting for a briefing on who faked the moon
Speaker 3: landing and Labour Front bencher Murray Watt comparing the coalition's
Speaker 3: request to ask for a briefing on the Lochness Monster
Speaker 3: be joins. This is seven a m. Thanks for listening.