1 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:05,930 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed daily interview. I'm Sean 2 00:00:05,940 --> 00:00:10,629 Sean Aylmer: Aylmer. As 2021 winds down, investors are already looking to 3 00:00:10,630 --> 00:00:13,830 Sean Aylmer: where the opportunities will be next year. One of the 4 00:00:13,830 --> 00:00:15,989 Sean Aylmer: biggest trends we are seeing is the impact of climate 5 00:00:15,990 --> 00:00:19,180 Sean Aylmer: change on business, from the development and commercialization of new 6 00:00:19,180 --> 00:00:22,690 Sean Aylmer: technologies to attempts by some of our biggest, and sometimes 7 00:00:22,690 --> 00:00:26,800 Sean Aylmer: dirtiest, companies to adapt to a greener future. Fiona Manning 8 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:30,120 Sean Aylmer: is the portfolio manager at Apostle Funds Management, with more 9 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:33,760 Sean Aylmer: than two decades of experience across climate change research, equity 10 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:36,979 Sean Aylmer: analysis, and responsible investing. Fiona, welcome to Fear and Greed. 11 00:00:37,950 --> 00:00:38,879 Fiona Manning: Thank you very much. 12 00:00:39,170 --> 00:00:43,930 Sean Aylmer: So let's start with COP26. There was an enormous buildup 13 00:00:43,930 --> 00:00:48,880 Sean Aylmer: to COP26 and certainly, media wise, the environment got many 14 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:52,010 Sean Aylmer: more of the headlines than it had. What's happened since 15 00:00:52,010 --> 00:00:55,820 Sean Aylmer: then? Is that momentum continuing? And will it continue into 2022? 16 00:00:56,530 --> 00:01:00,050 Fiona Manning: Oh, hopefully. Yeah. I've certainly got a bit of COP26 17 00:01:00,050 --> 00:01:02,920 Fiona Manning: fatigue myself, I have to say. Now look, a lot 18 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:07,050 Fiona Manning: of companies were already moving pride COP26. It was the 19 00:01:07,050 --> 00:01:10,039 Fiona Manning: first major check- in since the Paris agreement was reached 20 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:13,619 Fiona Manning: five years ago, which, set the goal of limiting global 21 00:01:13,620 --> 00:01:17,330 Fiona Manning: temperature increase to two degrees and preferably to no more than one and a half. 22 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:21,560 Fiona Manning: And the Paris agreement, amongst other goals, set a schedule for countries 23 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:24,679 Fiona Manning: to review their own commitments. So, their own emissions reductions 24 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:27,679 Fiona Manning: goals and strategies every five years. So that's what the 25 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:31,020 Fiona Manning: focus was on at COP26 this year. Now sort of 26 00:01:31,020 --> 00:01:34,720 Fiona Manning: globally companies were following the COP decisions as the outcomes 27 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:37,539 Fiona Manning: influence the carbon restrictions and regulation that they need to 28 00:01:38,170 --> 00:01:41,830 Fiona Manning: adhere to. In Australia, there's been a lot of uncertainty 29 00:01:41,830 --> 00:01:45,530 Fiona Manning: around carbon policy for many years. So, companies were, I 30 00:01:45,530 --> 00:01:49,260 Fiona Manning: guess, looking for some clarity over what climate and carbon 31 00:01:49,260 --> 00:01:52,680 Fiona Manning: policy would look like going forward. Knowing whether there'll be 32 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:54,960 Fiona Manning: a cost to pollute or not, whether that cost will 33 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:59,110 Fiona Manning: be large or small, they directly influence business decisions, particularly 34 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:01,790 Fiona Manning: in regard to long term capital expenditure. 35 00:02:03,390 --> 00:02:07,170 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So I mean, COP26 creates the regulatory environment in a sense is what you are 36 00:02:07,170 --> 00:02:12,190 Sean Aylmer: saying. Is that regulatory environment in Australia stable enough, well 37 00:02:12,190 --> 00:02:16,579 Sean Aylmer: known enough, legislated enough for businesses to be making decisions? 38 00:02:17,060 --> 00:02:20,510 Fiona Manning: In some segments, I don't think we're quite there yet. 39 00:02:20,660 --> 00:02:24,050 Fiona Manning: We're definitely not there in terms of ambition. I think 40 00:02:24,130 --> 00:02:26,889 Fiona Manning: Australia is regularly pinged for being a bit of a 41 00:02:26,889 --> 00:02:31,130 Fiona Manning: lagger amongst developing countries in terms of our emissions reductions 42 00:02:31,130 --> 00:02:35,139 Fiona Manning: targets. Which I guess is why it's important for companies 43 00:02:35,139 --> 00:02:40,310 Fiona Manning: to make their own declarations, regardless of whether companies accept 44 00:02:40,310 --> 00:02:44,960 Fiona Manning: what climate science suggests. A 50% cut in reductions by 45 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:49,410 Fiona Manning: 2030 and net zero by 2050, being transparent and clear about 46 00:02:49,410 --> 00:02:53,370 Fiona Manning: their own climate related goals is important for accountability. So 47 00:02:53,370 --> 00:02:57,020 Fiona Manning: I guess accountability in terms of various stakeholders, such as, 48 00:02:57,210 --> 00:03:01,790 Fiona Manning: shareholders, regulators, employees, and customers. All of those parties have 49 00:03:01,790 --> 00:03:04,730 Fiona Manning: an interest in knowing how companies are handling the transition 50 00:03:04,730 --> 00:03:07,679 Fiona Manning: to a low carbon economy, even in isolation of there 51 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:09,740 Fiona Manning: being rigorous policy from government. 52 00:03:10,139 --> 00:03:12,790 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So, let's talk about some of these Australian companies. 53 00:03:13,150 --> 00:03:16,930 Sean Aylmer: How do you think as an economy, Australian companies are 54 00:03:17,050 --> 00:03:21,180 Sean Aylmer: performing in terms of that shift to net zero? I'd 55 00:03:21,180 --> 00:03:25,040 Sean Aylmer: imagine we're well behind many European companies, but probably not 56 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:27,120 Sean Aylmer: as bad as some of the North American companies. 57 00:03:27,430 --> 00:03:29,850 Fiona Manning: Yeah, that's probably a fair assessment. That seems to be 58 00:03:29,850 --> 00:03:33,360 Fiona Manning: the pecking order. Europe tends to lead the charge followed 59 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:37,520 Fiona Manning: maybe by big organizations, like the UN, then Australia, and 60 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:42,430 Fiona Manning: the U.S. In terms of transitioning, the companies that are 61 00:03:42,430 --> 00:03:45,700 Fiona Manning: doing well are those that have seen the business case for transitioning. 62 00:03:46,150 --> 00:03:46,330 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. 63 00:03:46,330 --> 00:03:49,420 Fiona Manning: That's a very motivating force for a profit driven entity. 64 00:03:50,190 --> 00:03:53,580 Fiona Manning: As an example, the growth of green buildings is where 65 00:03:53,630 --> 00:03:57,410 Fiona Manning: being green very clearly makes business sense. Simple things like 66 00:03:57,410 --> 00:04:02,440 Fiona Manning: shifting to LED lighting, more efficient HVAC systems, improving water 67 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:06,270 Fiona Manning: and waste management practices massively reduces the cost of operating 68 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:09,150 Fiona Manning: property. So, companies that are transitioning well have tended to 69 00:04:09,150 --> 00:04:12,170 Fiona Manning: take, I guess, a long term view of big macro 70 00:04:12,170 --> 00:04:16,169 Fiona Manning: themes. It's a growing global population on a planet with 71 00:04:16,170 --> 00:04:20,700 Fiona Manning: finite resources and the inevitable policy response to climate change. 72 00:04:21,050 --> 00:04:23,940 Fiona Manning: They haven't, sort of, waited for policy announcements from government. 73 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:26,560 Fiona Manning: They're seeing the writing on the wall and getting first 74 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:27,469 Fiona Manning: mover advantage. 75 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:30,640 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So, what about if we shift to the dirty 76 00:04:30,700 --> 00:04:34,799 Sean Aylmer: industries and BHP is an example where it is selling 77 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:37,390 Sean Aylmer: out of oil and gas, or at least it's merging its oil and 78 00:04:37,390 --> 00:04:39,609 Sean Aylmer: gas business, which to me sounds like it's selling out. 79 00:04:40,260 --> 00:04:42,710 Sean Aylmer: And then focusing on potash, which is a whole new 80 00:04:42,710 --> 00:04:46,900 Sean Aylmer: commodity, which is an agricultural commodity. How do you sort 81 00:04:46,900 --> 00:04:51,589 Sean Aylmer: of think about those sorts of organizations? And I mean, BHP is the example, but there's 82 00:04:51,589 --> 00:04:54,690 Sean Aylmer: many oil and gas companies and many coal companies. How 83 00:04:54,690 --> 00:04:57,570 Sean Aylmer: do you think about them when they're trying to transition? 84 00:04:58,450 --> 00:05:01,589 Fiona Manning: Look moves by companies to make themselves greener, to either 85 00:05:01,589 --> 00:05:05,390 Fiona Manning: manage risk, or harness the opportunities should definitely be welcomed 86 00:05:05,390 --> 00:05:09,880 Fiona Manning: and supported by investors. Whether you accept the, frankly, very 87 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:12,630 Fiona Manning: well established science of climate change or not, it doesn't matter. 88 00:05:12,810 --> 00:05:12,930 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. 89 00:05:12,930 --> 00:05:15,839 Fiona Manning: Because policy makers around the world have accepted it and 90 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:18,930 Fiona Manning: they're putting a price on carbon. So if companies want 91 00:05:18,930 --> 00:05:20,560 Fiona Manning: to make it to the end of this century, they're 92 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:23,200 Fiona Manning: going to have to change. We might have a case of 93 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:27,489 Fiona Manning: two steps forwards, one step back. Decarbonizing could definitely happen 94 00:05:27,490 --> 00:05:29,839 Fiona Manning: a lot more quickly than it currently is. I mean, 95 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:33,040 Fiona Manning: look at how amazing we were at mobilizing resources and 96 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:36,100 Fiona Manning: people around the COVID pandemic, but slow progress is better 97 00:05:36,100 --> 00:05:39,099 Fiona Manning: than no progress. I guess, in relation to BHP and 98 00:05:39,130 --> 00:05:43,170 Fiona Manning: other company moves, I think we're going to see increased corporate activity where 99 00:05:43,180 --> 00:05:46,279 Fiona Manning: there is the hiding off of contentious business areas into 100 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:47,279 Fiona Manning: separate entities. 101 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:50,839 Sean Aylmer: Is that okay? I mean, AGL is another one, but it's kind 102 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:52,880 Sean Aylmer: of shifting the problem rather than solving it. 103 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:56,740 Fiona Manning: Yes. The hiding off makes it easier for investors to 104 00:05:56,740 --> 00:06:00,060 Fiona Manning: retain a clean portfolio. But yes, in terms of solving 105 00:06:00,060 --> 00:06:02,830 Fiona Manning: global problems, it is kind of just shuffling the cards 106 00:06:02,830 --> 00:06:03,870 Fiona Manning: that are already in the deck. 107 00:06:04,190 --> 00:06:07,390 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Stay with me, Fiona. We'll be back in 108 00:06:07,390 --> 00:06:15,430 Sean Aylmer: a minute. I'm speaking to Fiona Manning portfolio manager at 109 00:06:15,430 --> 00:06:19,839 Sean Aylmer: Apostle Funds Management. What about this whole concept of greenwashing, 110 00:06:20,060 --> 00:06:23,279 Sean Aylmer: which we're hearing more about? And ASIC, the corporate regulator, 111 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:25,979 Sean Aylmer: has been talking about it. It's fine for a company 112 00:06:25,980 --> 00:06:27,320 Sean Aylmer: to come out and say, this is what we are 113 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:29,550 Sean Aylmer: going to do, but it actually matters a lot more 114 00:06:29,550 --> 00:06:31,150 Sean Aylmer: that they're doing it rather than saying it. 115 00:06:31,870 --> 00:06:35,750 Fiona Manning: Definitely, greenwashing is a big risk. And I think policing 116 00:06:35,750 --> 00:06:39,070 Fiona Manning: of greenwashing would definitely be welcomed by many. The problem 117 00:06:39,070 --> 00:06:41,580 Fiona Manning: is we don't seem yet to have a common language 118 00:06:41,580 --> 00:06:46,860 Fiona Manning: or taxonomy around things like green, eco, environmentally friendly, ethical, 119 00:06:46,860 --> 00:06:51,080 Fiona Manning: and so on. Similarly, there's a lot of, natural imagery 120 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:53,640 Fiona Manning: and the use of the color green and advertising and 121 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:57,830 Fiona Manning: product packaging that implies greenness or goodness without even saying 122 00:06:57,830 --> 00:07:00,550 Fiona Manning: anything at all. Now it's pretty hard to police the 123 00:07:00,550 --> 00:07:03,679 Fiona Manning: use of the color green or images of lush forests 124 00:07:03,730 --> 00:07:06,820 Fiona Manning: in a company's marketing strategy. So, I think at least 125 00:07:06,820 --> 00:07:09,029 Fiona Manning: part of the onus is on us as consumers to 126 00:07:09,029 --> 00:07:11,710 Fiona Manning: be a little more critical of the claims that companies 127 00:07:11,710 --> 00:07:15,120 Fiona Manning: make about their products and services. And that extends beyond 128 00:07:15,430 --> 00:07:18,210 Fiona Manning: the green and the good to pretty much everything, like 129 00:07:18,210 --> 00:07:19,940 Fiona Manning: miracle face creams and stuff. 130 00:07:20,170 --> 00:07:20,370 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. 131 00:07:20,460 --> 00:07:22,980 Fiona Manning: Going, I guess, to the investment world, there's a lot 132 00:07:22,980 --> 00:07:26,170 Fiona Manning: of confusion amongst investors about how good green or otherwise 133 00:07:26,170 --> 00:07:29,002 Fiona Manning: their investments are. But happily, it looks like (COP) 134 00:07:28,990 --> 00:07:32,520 Fiona Manning: is on its way via regulation. Regulators around the world 135 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:36,720 Fiona Manning: are directing their efforts towards uncovering greenwashing and creating frameworks 136 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:40,140 Fiona Manning: that prevent its occurrence, as noted with consumer goods. The 137 00:07:40,140 --> 00:07:42,670 Fiona Manning: key issues are lack of clarity around the labeling of 138 00:07:42,670 --> 00:07:46,420 Fiona Manning: products and a lack of a single taxonomy. One set 139 00:07:46,420 --> 00:07:50,850 Fiona Manning: of rules addressing this is the sustainable finance disclosure regulation, 140 00:07:51,210 --> 00:07:54,230 Fiona Manning: which categorizes products in Europe according to their level of, 141 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:57,210 Fiona Manning: green, ethical, or impact considerations. 142 00:07:57,740 --> 00:07:57,770 Sean Aylmer: Yep. 143 00:07:57,770 --> 00:08:01,100 Fiona Manning: For example, they define article eight products as those that 144 00:08:01,100 --> 00:08:06,710 Fiona Manning: promote environmental or social characteristics. Article nine products have sustainable 145 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:10,140 Fiona Manning: investment as their objective and are required to explain how 146 00:08:10,140 --> 00:08:13,580 Fiona Manning: their products meet those objectives. So, it's a developing framework 147 00:08:13,650 --> 00:08:17,840 Fiona Manning: and the European commissioners indicated it'll hopefully be consolidated early 148 00:08:18,190 --> 00:08:20,920 Fiona Manning: next year. And as always that will lead the charge, 149 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:22,730 Fiona Manning: and hopefully we follow not too shortly after. 150 00:08:23,420 --> 00:08:26,960 Sean Aylmer: How important are the finances in this? So, in over the last week, both 151 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:31,310 Sean Aylmer: ANZ and Westpac have been criticized by shareholders at AGMs 152 00:08:31,630 --> 00:08:35,819 Sean Aylmer: around the fact that they're financing fossil fuel projects. Now, 153 00:08:35,820 --> 00:08:39,579 Sean Aylmer: their argument is particularly around gas. It's a transition energy, 154 00:08:39,580 --> 00:08:41,670 Sean Aylmer: and we can't just turn off the lights. I mean, 155 00:08:41,670 --> 00:08:44,679 Sean Aylmer: we literally can't just turn off the lights, but just 156 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:47,550 Sean Aylmer: that the funding of this, at some point, if the 157 00:08:47,550 --> 00:08:51,360 Sean Aylmer: banks and lenders pull away, then the companies won't have 158 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:51,959 Sean Aylmer: much choice. 159 00:08:52,340 --> 00:08:55,530 Fiona Manning: Yeah, that's true. I mean, the banks of finances provide 160 00:08:55,530 --> 00:08:59,560 Fiona Manning: sort of the life source for long term capital expenditure. 161 00:08:59,809 --> 00:09:01,910 Fiona Manning: So the parameters that they're setting around it in their 162 00:09:01,910 --> 00:09:04,090 Fiona Manning: own book are definitely going to determine the shape of 163 00:09:04,090 --> 00:09:09,040 Fiona Manning: the economy going forward. The recent announcements about caps on 164 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:13,280 Fiona Manning: fossil fuel lending, lack of targets around lending to renewable 165 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:17,530 Fiona Manning: energy businesses is definitely disappointing. And we're seeing, I guess, 166 00:09:17,530 --> 00:09:20,530 Fiona Manning: some more shareholder activism around that. There's a couple of 167 00:09:20,530 --> 00:09:25,540 Fiona Manning: organizations which are specifically focused on ultimately financing of carbon 168 00:09:25,540 --> 00:09:28,270 Fiona Manning: emissions, so I think we'll see some more consumer pressure 169 00:09:28,270 --> 00:09:29,079 Fiona Manning: around that as well. 170 00:09:29,429 --> 00:09:31,700 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So can we talk about impact investing? And then 171 00:09:31,700 --> 00:09:37,280 Sean Aylmer: we're talking about the environment primarily here, but there's lots more to impact investing than the environment. 172 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:42,220 Fiona Manning: Yes, definitely. Impact investing sort of extends well beyond climate 173 00:09:42,300 --> 00:09:47,140 Fiona Manning: and environmental issues. Impact investing is really just about making 174 00:09:47,550 --> 00:09:52,969 Fiona Manning: a positive impact in terms of, people or planet alongside 175 00:09:52,970 --> 00:09:57,750 Fiona Manning: a financial return. So there yes, the climate environmental issues, 176 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:01,820 Fiona Manning: but also impact investing in terms of health and wellbeing, 177 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:06,420 Fiona Manning: inclusivity, equality, and diversity, kind of a whole host of 178 00:10:06,530 --> 00:10:10,370 Fiona Manning: problems that people are hoping to solve by directing their 179 00:10:10,370 --> 00:10:11,750 Fiona Manning: capital towards those areas. 180 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:14,620 Sean Aylmer: Do you think, we've seen such a push in capital 181 00:10:14,620 --> 00:10:19,010 Sean Aylmer: towards green areas, but some of those broader impact areas 182 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:22,590 Sean Aylmer: are likely to attract more capital in the coming years? 183 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:26,330 Fiona Manning: Definitely seems to be pointing that way. If you look 184 00:10:26,330 --> 00:10:32,400 Fiona Manning: at the benchmarking reports of (RIO or PRY) and the surveys 185 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:35,729 Fiona Manning: that they do of consumers and investors about how they 186 00:10:35,730 --> 00:10:39,860 Fiona Manning: wish their portfolios to be invested, there's definitely a move 187 00:10:39,860 --> 00:10:44,670 Fiona Manning: towards investments more aligned with their values. And it's no 188 00:10:44,670 --> 00:10:49,210 Fiona Manning: longer just kind of about avoiding industries or activities that 189 00:10:49,210 --> 00:10:53,010 Fiona Manning: they don't agree with, but definitely towards supporting those industries 190 00:10:53,010 --> 00:10:56,079 Fiona Manning: and practices that they do agree with. So, there's kind 191 00:10:56,080 --> 00:11:01,770 Fiona Manning: of a move from avoidance of problems to embracing of solutions. 192 00:11:03,050 --> 00:11:05,620 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So as an investor, that makes it an exciting time to 193 00:11:05,620 --> 00:11:08,910 Sean Aylmer: look around the market because there must be opportunities and 194 00:11:08,910 --> 00:11:12,070 Sean Aylmer: arbitrage that you can take advantage of because there is 195 00:11:12,070 --> 00:11:12,810 Sean Aylmer: change happening. 196 00:11:13,710 --> 00:11:17,929 Fiona Manning: Yeah, definitely. I mean, interest from an investor's perspective still 197 00:11:17,929 --> 00:11:22,740 Fiona Manning: seems to be largely focused on climate and environment in terms of that. And 198 00:11:22,740 --> 00:11:26,350 Fiona Manning: the biggest opportunities seem to be in areas that reduce 199 00:11:26,350 --> 00:11:30,570 Fiona Manning: the major sources of carbon emissions or greenhouse gases. So, 200 00:11:30,820 --> 00:11:34,660 Fiona Manning: historically and still today, the focus and opportunities have been 201 00:11:34,660 --> 00:11:38,600 Fiona Manning: in our energy systems, moving away from fossil fuel based 202 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:44,120 Fiona Manning: energy sources to cleaner renewable sources. The growing pushback globally 203 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:48,260 Fiona Manning: on thermal coal power generation towards solar and wind cannot 204 00:11:48,260 --> 00:11:49,300 Fiona Manning: be understated. 205 00:11:49,580 --> 00:11:49,610 Sean Aylmer: Yep. 206 00:11:49,740 --> 00:11:52,270 Fiona Manning: The transport sector also makes up a large proportion of 207 00:11:52,270 --> 00:11:55,900 Fiona Manning: global greenhouse gas emissions, and accordingly we're seeing major growth 208 00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:59,910 Fiona Manning: in electric vehicle manufacturers and companies that produce components for 209 00:11:59,910 --> 00:12:04,850 Fiona Manning: them. Similarly, construction sector is a major contributor to global 210 00:12:04,850 --> 00:12:09,189 Fiona Manning: emissions. And just this year we saw a Swedish company ship its first 211 00:12:09,190 --> 00:12:10,730 Fiona Manning: batch of green steel. 212 00:12:11,350 --> 00:12:11,400 Sean Aylmer: Oh, really? 213 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:14,550 Fiona Manning: Steel that made is using hydrogen rather than coal in 214 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:16,010 Fiona Manning: it's production processes. 215 00:12:16,309 --> 00:12:18,520 Sean Aylmer: Yeah, exactly. I mean steel and cement seem to be 216 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:20,350 Sean Aylmer: the two big ones, which everyone says, if we can 217 00:12:20,350 --> 00:12:23,189 Sean Aylmer: somehow get green steel and green cement, a lot of 218 00:12:23,190 --> 00:12:25,939 Sean Aylmer: the problems of the world will be solved. I'm overstating it, I 219 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:27,020 Sean Aylmer: appreciate that. But 220 00:12:27,020 --> 00:12:29,530 Fiona Manning: Well, it would definitely be a good start to solving the 221 00:12:29,530 --> 00:12:30,210 Fiona Manning: problems. I agree. 222 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:32,640 Sean Aylmer: Fiona, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 223 00:12:33,309 --> 00:12:33,750 Fiona Manning: Thank you. 224 00:12:33,750 --> 00:12:37,699 Sean Aylmer: That was Fiona Manning portfolio manager at Apostle Funds Management. 225 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:40,240 Sean Aylmer: This is the Fear and Greed daily interview. Join me 226 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:42,820 Sean Aylmer: every morning for the full Fear and Greed podcast, with 227 00:12:42,820 --> 00:12:45,080 Sean Aylmer: all the business news you need to know I'm Sean 228 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:46,390 Sean Aylmer: Aylmer, enjoy your day.