Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, Welcome to conversations. Now. Look, it's no exaggeration
Speaker 1: to say that my next guest was at one time
Speaker 1: the most powerful man, most powerful influential person in this state.
Speaker 1: But he wasn't our premier. He had the role as
Speaker 1: deputy premier or assistant premier I'm not sure what the
Speaker 1: exact term is. And he was our state treasurer. Then
Speaker 1: he retired thirteen fourteen years ago, maybe twelve years ago.
Speaker 1: You probably recognized the voice one and only Kevin Foley.
Speaker 1: How are you? Thank you?
Speaker 2: Graham? Sorry I shouldn't have cut in. Bad habits come
Speaker 2: back pretty quickly.
Speaker 1: I've had the introduction sort of almost bad. You've been
Speaker 1: very quiet. We haven't heard much of you.
Speaker 2: Well I'm happy with that, you know. I think I've
Speaker 2: burned up about three lifetimes of publicity and media, good,
Speaker 2: bad and ugly, so I live a quiet life.
Speaker 1: Do you think it was an exaggeration to say at
Speaker 1: one stage you're the most powerful person in the state.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm not sure whether Mike Grant has gone back
Speaker 2: to it Italy. He spent six months in Italy and
Speaker 2: months in Adelaide.
Speaker 1: So what was.
Speaker 2: Incredible with Mike? And I mean this sincerely and not
Speaker 2: just a spin. Mike and I worked like a hand
Speaker 2: and a glove, and you get power or you assume
Speaker 2: power through the support of the premiere, and rarely did
Speaker 2: we have a disagreement. And if I ever had to
Speaker 2: exercise power, I did it with the backing support of
Speaker 2: the premiere, because if you don't have that your power,
Speaker 2: you might get away once with stepping out of the
Speaker 2: which I did in the end with the Adelaide Oval.
Speaker 2: But no, I had a lot of responsibility.
Speaker 1: Sure we'll come to the Adelaide Oval, but did you
Speaker 1: ever get a tap on the shoulder? Did ever ring
Speaker 1: and say, keV, you've gone a bit too far here? Mate?
Speaker 2: On a microand you met a couple of times, certainly
Speaker 2: Adelaide Oval was one of them.
Speaker 1: We can chat about that a bit later. But now
Speaker 1: there were times.
Speaker 2: I mean, Mike and I spent eight years in opposition together.
Speaker 2: We knew each other before I got into Parliament, but
Speaker 2: not well. And then of course he was in. Mike
Speaker 2: and I serve teen years in cabinet, nine as Deputy Premier,
Speaker 2: police Minister, treasurer and a whole host of other portfolios.
Speaker 1: But now there were times, Yeah, it's intriguing to me.
Speaker 1: And maybe it only happens in Australia, perhaps over but
Speaker 1: I'm in Australia. You're a young fellow who leaves school
Speaker 1: at sixteen, and then I don't know, thirty or thirty
Speaker 1: years later, you're assuming the responsibility of a state treasurer
Speaker 1: and it's a deputy premier. Depinitey premier, deputy premier. How
Speaker 1: little happened? I mean you left school at sixteen? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Why, Well, I thought I was an expert and there
Speaker 2: was nothing more that education could give me that I
Speaker 2: didn't already have. I was a bit of a smart ass.
Speaker 2: Were you that?
Speaker 1: Did you have that most self confidence?
Speaker 2: Well, what it was was I saw my report cards
Speaker 2: would always you know, he could do better if he
Speaker 2: tried harder, you know type of thing. And for those
Speaker 2: listeners who think I'm being arrogant, that was sort of
Speaker 2: a joke about me being thinking I was smarter.
Speaker 1: Than I was.
Speaker 2: But as an advert in the paper for a stock
Speaker 2: records clerk for a company called A and I Hostral Steal,
Speaker 2: a big steel distribution company that would supply the industrial
Speaker 2: sector in South Australia. My dad was in that type
Speaker 2: of business. Dad told me, or gave me one of
Speaker 2: his ties, made me wear a tie, and I got
Speaker 2: the job. And the person who hired me said, you
Speaker 2: got the job because you're the only kid that walked
Speaker 2: in with a pair of shoes on the restroom flip
Speaker 2: flops or sandals. It was nineteen seventy six. You could
Speaker 2: get a job pretty easily in those days. And I was,
Speaker 2: you know, I was a shit kicker when I went
Speaker 2: into that office. I was the dog's body, didn't have
Speaker 2: a seat, didn't have a chair. After two weeks of
Speaker 2: having to be it's work at eight o'clock in the morning,
Speaker 2: fifteen minute smoker, mid morning, thirty minutes for a lunch,
Speaker 2: and I had to work till five point thirty. You
Speaker 2: couldn't answer back, You couldn't be a smart alec had
Speaker 2: to do what you ever told. At that point I
Speaker 2: realized that I really wasn't very clever, and I went
Speaker 2: scrambling back to the school to see and whether I
Speaker 2: could be readmitted. I had stepped way out of my
Speaker 2: comfort zone. I was faced with having to repeat the
Speaker 2: year if I did come back or go back, and
Speaker 2: I said, oh well, buck of that.
Speaker 1: I to what school? Was it?
Speaker 2: Royal Park High School. It was a school down It
Speaker 2: was only open for about fifteen years.
Speaker 1: I heard of Royal Park.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I changed its name to West Lakes, as it
Speaker 2: all did. It's down a Nearport road end of It's
Speaker 2: actually what is now called West Lakes was always Royal Park.
Speaker 2: West or Royal Park used to be honest. But that
Speaker 2: education I got working in steel for a still company
Speaker 2: in an old traditional office, you know, the credit department,
Speaker 2: the human services, the accounts, payable, accounts receivable in those days.
Speaker 2: It was an old, traditional, pre computer, big office. And
Speaker 2: I learned discipline. I learned to ask questions, don't you know,
Speaker 2: try and.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: Fudget, Don't ask the same question too many times, but
Speaker 2: ask questions if you don't know something.
Speaker 1: And discipline.
Speaker 2: I learned a lot of discipline that was hammered into
Speaker 2: me pretty quickly, and I excelled to be honest. I
Speaker 2: enjoyed being a sales rep. I became a sales supervisor,
Speaker 2: assistant product manager, so to speak. And I had this
Speaker 2: corporate career and that's when I got a bit itchy
Speaker 2: in the feet and politics seem quite interesting and I
Speaker 2: got involved in the local party branch.
Speaker 1: You mentioned your dad what was his background?
Speaker 2: Dad Mum was from Tasmania. They both passed. Dad passed
Speaker 2: a couple.
Speaker 1: Of years ago, three years of four years ago now
Speaker 1: ninety four, ninety four years of age. But Dad worked
Speaker 1: in the steel industry.
Speaker 2: Dad imported steel into Australia well for BP, in competition
Speaker 2: to BHP, because back in the day BHP didn't supply
Speaker 2: companies directly, only the big ones. They would use companies
Speaker 2: like where I work to distribute steel like a wholesaler would.
Speaker 2: And so Dad was importing steel.
Speaker 1: And the hew would have gone about that.
Speaker 2: Oh, he started for a company called Golan and Company.
Speaker 2: Back in the seventies, Graham, we had trading houses, Japanese
Speaker 2: trading house style companies Marabini Mitsu. So if you wanted
Speaker 2: to sell your wine or your timber or that overseas,
Speaker 2: you went to these trading houses and that's where Dad worked.
Speaker 2: And also if you wanted to bring in steel into
Speaker 2: Australia you would go through a trading house. So Dad
Speaker 2: bought steel in for Robert hill Ling hills Hoyst. Remember
Speaker 2: mister ling hill Ling putting the close line up at
Speaker 2: our house. We've got a freebe out of it and
Speaker 2: that's where I let my cricket.
Speaker 1: And you know where would the steel come from? Overseas? Korea, Japan,
Speaker 1: China in those days. But that intrigues me, like your
Speaker 1: dad would have been of an era where World War Two?
Speaker 1: Did he live through? Dad? He serve?
Speaker 2: Yeah, he served for about ten days at the MCG
Speaker 2: on a stretch of bed, you know, been on where
Speaker 2: the troops.
Speaker 1: Because that was as a holding center, wasn't it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the mcgah they acquired it for.
Speaker 2: He would always tell me he spent more time at
Speaker 2: the on the mcg pitched or field than you know,
Speaker 2: half the AFL footballer. So he enlisted, yep, right at
Speaker 2: the very end, at the end the Japanese War in
Speaker 2: the Air Force. But he got a war service loan
Speaker 2: out of eight weeks.
Speaker 1: The point I'm making there is that there's some of
Speaker 1: those World War two vets they were so anti anything
Speaker 1: to do with the Japanese and that took them a
Speaker 1: long time. And look, let's for instance, a lot of
Speaker 1: them wouldn't buy a toy Toyota things like that. With
Speaker 1: your dad's doing business.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they Dad supplied fifty percent of Chrysler who
Speaker 2: Mitsubishi later took over. But when it was Chrysler, Dad
Speaker 2: was bringing steel in for that from Japan. He was
Speaker 2: bringing pipe in from Japan and for a whole lot
Speaker 2: of companies traveled there frequently. But Dad, the company he's
Speaker 2: working for was embezzled at the top level and was
Speaker 2: put into administration. My father bought the steel importing side
Speaker 2: of that business from the receivers and tragically some years later,
Speaker 2: and this is why I got into the Labor Party.
Speaker 2: Malcolm Fraser was Prime Minister, and he's doing what Trump
Speaker 2: is doing now. He massively increased tariffs and put my
Speaker 2: dad family out of business and lost our family home.
Speaker 1: So that's when I decided family. Yeah, I hated the libs.
Speaker 1: Sounded sounded like you were quite wealthy for a while,
Speaker 1: middle class, middle class asbestos home, big block, up seating,
Speaker 1: dirt rode out the front, every fruit tree known to
Speaker 1: mankind out the back. You know.
Speaker 2: He used to shoot my slug gunner.
Speaker 1: Hit the what a life.
Speaker 2: I used to shoot the next door neighbors flying pigeon
Speaker 2: their pigeons. He used to raise pigeons, And I shot
Speaker 2: this slug aut this pigeon and it fell off the
Speaker 2: roof of the neighbor's house on broken's neck, and.
Speaker 1: The neighbor came around and my dad.
Speaker 2: Came out, whacked me over the backside more times than
Speaker 2: I could count, took my chop at my slug down
Speaker 2: to the shed in the vice, broke it in half.
Speaker 1: And that was it. That was it. Did you have
Speaker 1: a sporting background when you're a kid? Well I did.
Speaker 1: I played cricket.
Speaker 2: I played school cricket, primary school, high school. Then I
Speaker 2: played eighteen years out at what was then the West
Speaker 2: Lakes Cricket Club previously Semaphore Park. I was a secretary,
Speaker 2: treasurer and president for those eighteen years. I ran all
Speaker 2: the running of the stage.
Speaker 1: Like you're the type of person I realized early in
Speaker 1: life he had to be in charge.
Speaker 2: Well I did, because I was able to make sure.
Speaker 2: I became captain of the B grade and we went
Speaker 2: one season undefeated, top and my contribution was about zip.
Speaker 2: But that was the price I wanted to extract for
Speaker 2: doing all the you know, the fundraising and all the
Speaker 2: gritty stuff.
Speaker 1: Kevin Foley's my guest is I loved delving into these
Speaker 1: early years. I wonder which footy Teamy back for. I'll
Speaker 1: come back and talk about that. But surely, folks, my
Speaker 1: guest on conversations today is Kevin Foley, our former deputy
Speaker 1: premier and had so many different portfolios, but if you
Speaker 1: just tuned in, he's a young fellow. Growing up at
Speaker 1: Royal Park.
Speaker 2: Well, we lived in Seaton, Brent Avenue, Seaton. It was
Speaker 2: I remember dirt right out the front. I remember, you know,
Speaker 2: the the lawyer's truck would come around. Our former Port
Speaker 2: Adelaide footballer. Some of the listeners will remember Zuker, Lloyd
Speaker 2: Lloyd Zuker was driving the trucks. I remember that. And
Speaker 2: but dirt roads, you know, kicked the footy out on
Speaker 2: the road and the dirt and when it got picture
Speaker 2: of minds, that was our where we kicked the foot
Speaker 2: We had a big front yard, a big backyard in
Speaker 2: those days, but very you know, like it was a
Speaker 2: it was a five class home.
Speaker 1: It was nothing and it was home.
Speaker 2: But we always played cricket out the front yard. I
Speaker 2: don't know why we did that, but I'd broken a
Speaker 2: few windows in that I played football for school.
Speaker 1: Or who at Royal Park High went on to play
Speaker 1: for Port Adelaie. There would have been.
Speaker 2: Someone someone, but you'd know one of the names, Ralph Hillman.
Speaker 2: Does that name ring a bell?
Speaker 1: Doesn't ring a bell?
Speaker 2: He coached Henley, He coached a lot of the state
Speaker 2: sides over the years. He was my history teacher, and
Speaker 2: I was in the high school footy team. And I
Speaker 2: remember we had to do a history exam one year
Speaker 2: and Ralph was the coach and my teacher, and I
Speaker 2: couldn't be bothered writing the paper. So I got my
Speaker 2: friend and she gave me her paper and I copied
Speaker 2: it word for word. She got a CEE and I
Speaker 2: got an A. It was word for word the same.
Speaker 2: That's you're a nasty footballer. You're admitting to plagiarism. Oh totally.
Speaker 2: But I went on to play footy. I was pretty ordinary.
Speaker 2: I played one a gray game aim for the West
Speaker 2: Lakes Football Club on the bench, just because they were
Speaker 2: one short. I played about thirty or forty games in
Speaker 2: the B grade and maybe sixty or seventy in the
Speaker 2: C grade. I was a terrific kick. I was a
Speaker 2: good marker, good you know, I had good hands. I
Speaker 2: was terrific, excelled at non competitive circle work because well,
Speaker 2: I just.
Speaker 1: Lacked one important ingredient. What was the courage?
Speaker 2: I had no courage. So whenever the ball would come
Speaker 2: and I was in a contestant, you know, a contested moment,
Speaker 2: I shipped myself and.
Speaker 1: I was allows in football. He said, your mum was
Speaker 1: from Tasmania and tell us about your mom. How did
Speaker 1: they meet?
Speaker 2: Oh? Well look, mum had moved to Melbourne working for
Speaker 2: TATSLS in Melbourne CBD and Dad met her there and
Speaker 2: then day got a job here in Adelaide and they
Speaker 2: came across to Adelaide. So from Melbourne Oridgely Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: so he lived grew up in Hawthorne. Wow, so Glenn
Speaker 2: Ferry Oval used to go to as a kid and
Speaker 2: yeah he was a mad Hawthorne supporter and then he
Speaker 2: became a mad Crow supporter, a mad Crow yeah yeah
Speaker 2: later in life for it. Yeah, but local South Australian.
Speaker 1: You know I got to bed No.
Speaker 2: Well, of course the Crows got him, but you know,
Speaker 2: you stole a lot of our decent potential support base
Speaker 2: by getting such a head start, tried to break all
Speaker 2: the rules and yeah, people like my father just drop
Speaker 2: Dad actually barrack for Woodville or West Tyrans and Woodle
Speaker 2: really before they merged. But I remember when my Dad
Speaker 2: had dementia in the end when he passed at ninety four,
Speaker 2: and I knew that he had zoned out completely because
Speaker 2: he would always watch football, you know, the TV for sport, cricket, football, anything.
Speaker 2: I walked into his room one day and it was
Speaker 2: a Crows playing Hawthorne or something. He wasn't watching, so
Speaker 2: he'd lost it all.
Speaker 1: So it was sair. Dad was one of these people.
Speaker 1: He loved his cricket.
Speaker 2: He would turn the TV volume off or down to
Speaker 2: zero and listened to it on the radio, you know,
Speaker 2: one of those old timers, and he just I just
Speaker 2: loved his sport. He was a passionate lawn bowler. He
Speaker 2: established the West Lakes Bowling Club. But no in sport.
Speaker 2: I've let my sons. I think it leaked a generation fairly.
Speaker 2: You must have, you must have grown up, you must
Speaker 2: have bear it for Oh yeah, yeah, yeah you have.
Speaker 1: Did you have heroes?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Eric Freeman, I had seventeen on my Duffel coat.
Speaker 2: And when Fritzy got booted for Max James, I remember
Speaker 2: because Max James was living down.
Speaker 1: The street at that time.
Speaker 2: It took me a while, but I ended up following Max,
Speaker 2: who ran against me in Parliament once as an independent.
Speaker 1: Years later, decades later, I didn't realize he's a great guy.
Speaker 1: Max James and I really underrated. I don't think he
Speaker 1: gets the accolade, no sort of.
Speaker 2: It was a strong, solid South Melbourne.
Speaker 1: I think from memory he is a local guy. But
Speaker 1: he went to South Melbourne.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's Southeast.
Speaker 1: I think it was Mount Camby. We was down that
Speaker 1: way somewhere. I'm not only it's it doesn't get the
Speaker 1: accolades that he should South Australia.
Speaker 2: But I remember going as a football I remember Port
Speaker 2: Adelaide playing North Adelaide. I don't know if it was
Speaker 2: a Grand final or may it might have been a
Speaker 2: Grand final, would have.
Speaker 1: Been a Grand final.
Speaker 2: In the back of Max he had a Manaro and
Speaker 2: Brian Cunningham was in the front seat and I was
Speaker 2: sitting next to Brian's then fiance and that or girlfriend.
Speaker 1: I think it wasn't that.
Speaker 2: And I got into the chained rooms and I liked
Speaker 2: the circle. Oh yeah.
Speaker 1: I always been a passionate for Port supporter always. So
Speaker 1: your family loses their house.
Speaker 2: How old were you then? By then I would have
Speaker 2: been a late teens, early twenties, so what happened. It's
Speaker 2: a bit of family history. It was by my dad's
Speaker 2: business was sort of destroyed by Malcolm Fraser. The lifting
Speaker 2: massive you know, like one hundred percent tariffs. It was
Speaker 2: just terrible. And my I had a brother who's now
Speaker 2: passed as well, half brother. Mum and dad foolishly also
Speaker 2: went guarantee her on a hotel for him at Freeling, Okay.
Speaker 2: And he was a drinker and a gambler, and what
Speaker 2: was left went down.
Speaker 1: Parents guarante her for.
Speaker 2: The Yeah, it it was foolish.
Speaker 1: I was just I don't know.
Speaker 2: I wasn't aware of what was going on with my
Speaker 2: brother and my parents, but yeah, it was.
Speaker 1: It was a tough period. And did he recover? Did
Speaker 1: they recover? Oh yeah, yeah he had.
Speaker 2: In the end, he got enough to buy a retirement
Speaker 2: village home and in one of the villages down at
Speaker 2: north Haven actually and lived there and would come out
Speaker 2: all the time and watch my oldest son Ryan, who
Speaker 2: plays who's played around four different clubs. He's probably playing
Speaker 2: close to three hundred games off and on through his career.
Speaker 2: And my younger son Ben, and Ryan was a very
Speaker 2: good tennis player, but Ben was exceptional tennis player. He'd
Speaker 2: always come out and watch and he'd have his ear
Speaker 2: piece in listening to the AFL whilst he watched my son. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it was he was a good man. So how who
Speaker 2: cruited you into the Labor Party? Well, I I just
Speaker 2: I was aware of politics, probably because I was working
Speaker 2: when a lot of my mates were doing apprenticeships or
Speaker 2: you know, even I don't know if anyone went to university,
Speaker 2: but you know, we'd be playing pinball down at the
Speaker 2: local Delhi and I'd be reading the advertiser a bit
Speaker 2: of a nerd, or the news. But I was into politics.
Speaker 1: I liked it.
Speaker 2: When my father was, you know, a phraser, did what
Speaker 2: he did, I just took it. I was sort of
Speaker 2: middle of the road and I said, Noah Hawk and
Speaker 2: Keating got elected. For a young person, it was like,
Speaker 2: just grab me. I wanted into me down in Port Adelote,
Speaker 2: and I got an introduction through a friend's father and
Speaker 2: Mick got me selling meat trays down at the Kolak
Speaker 2: the following fortnight, the Thursday and Friday night and Mick
Speaker 2: had to tell me, mate, take your bloody tie off
Speaker 2: and your suit jacket. You're in the cola and the
Speaker 2: Labor Party owned it in those days down in Port Adelaide,
Speaker 2: and I raised thousands and twenty thirty forty grand over
Speaker 2: three or four years for the local branch. So are
Speaker 2: you volunteering or totally volunteering? I did all the You know,
Speaker 2: there was no easy road and there is no easy
Speaker 2: road into politics. You know, you don't just get picked
Speaker 2: off the street and put in on occasionally Malcolm Turnbull does,
Speaker 2: I guess, and there are people that that does happen to.
Speaker 2: But I had to, Yeah, I had to strategically place
Speaker 2: myself in a queue which I knew I could get
Speaker 2: to the head of. In my local area can.
Speaker 1: Become very ruthless. So did you have the Macavelian instinct
Speaker 1: where it was you know there were no rules and
Speaker 1: if you've got them away or stamp on your ground.
Speaker 2: Richardson once said, you know whatever it takes it, I mean,
Speaker 2: you know yourself grown. I mean politics is a brutal, brutal,
Speaker 2: brutal game, and you've got a yes, you've got to
Speaker 2: have a fixed skin, but you've also got to know
Speaker 2: that you can't get your own way all the time.
Speaker 2: That you've got to be able to, you know, cop
Speaker 2: it and accept that you're not going to get your
Speaker 2: way all the time, and some people can't do that.
Speaker 2: It's the art of the compromise.
Speaker 1: Your first attempt at standing you were defeated. Yeah, what
Speaker 1: was that experience?
Speaker 2: Like, Well, I thought I was going to win. I
Speaker 2: do not just about every seat, but as a next
Speaker 2: deputy premier in w A once told me there's a
Speaker 2: lot of bloody liars out there in the electorates because
Speaker 2: everyone said they liked me and I just took it.
Speaker 1: They're going to vote for me. But you were standing
Speaker 1: against an independent.
Speaker 2: Yeah, normally Peter he was off the wharf and he
Speaker 2: was the local independent and in the end norm supported
Speaker 2: me when I ran when he retired in ninety three
Speaker 2: and I went into parliament then and.
Speaker 1: Then you were successful.
Speaker 2: Well, we had two terms in opposition. I thought I'd
Speaker 2: spent all my life in opposition.
Speaker 1: Successful and being in.
Speaker 2: Your second term, yeah, it was a very safe labor seat.
Speaker 2: I think I took it from twenty six percent margin
Speaker 2: down to about ten what time I exited. It was
Speaker 2: very hard to do these jobs if you're not in.
Speaker 1: A safe seat.
Speaker 2: I have to be honest with you to be an
Speaker 2: effective minister.
Speaker 1: It's very ard. Kevin Foley is my guest, folks. His
Speaker 1: political career is just starting so much more to come
Speaker 1: back shortly. Welcome back, everybody who had just tuned in.
Speaker 1: We're chatting with Kevin Foley, who had such a long, illustrious,
Speaker 1: distinguished political career here in Adelaide. It's been quietly retired
Speaker 1: these days. I haven't heard from him much. You've been
Speaker 1: You have been pretty quiet, haven't you. Well.
Speaker 2: I guess it's probably like you Graham, although you're never
Speaker 2: quite I mean that in a nice way. I didn't
Speaker 2: sound like it'd probably bit like when you gave up football.
Speaker 2: You're able to go on to your coaching career, but
Speaker 2: that at some point it's all over, it ends, and
Speaker 2: it's it's a very hard adjustment. So in the early
Speaker 2: days when I retired, I'd be on the phone ringing
Speaker 2: up five double A or you know, with my opinion,
Speaker 2: until I realized that my opinion doesn't matter, and why
Speaker 2: am I bothering to subject the listeners to my opinion?
Speaker 2: Now it was just a bit with the head.
Speaker 1: I understand that there's this time drive off and driving
Speaker 1: in the car when when the boys are talking and
Speaker 1: I want to ring up there. But yeah, he got
Speaker 1: to put yourself.
Speaker 2: Did you ever ring your you know coaches that went
Speaker 2: after you at the Crows, did you ever get the
Speaker 2: urge to ring them and tell them.
Speaker 1: How they should do their job? Grature this advice when
Speaker 1: Nixy was going through the really tough time. So I
Speaker 1: used to text some just words of encouragement. You've got
Speaker 1: to persevere so that not everybody thinks it's it's a failure.
Speaker 2: So I think I I've had a bit of trouble
Speaker 2: with that. I sort of used to don't do it
Speaker 2: very often now, but send to the odd message or
Speaker 2: two to Malley, until I realized that he doesn't in politics.
Speaker 1: He don't give a damn about the last lot. And
Speaker 1: your job's done, gone behind buried, So we'll do it
Speaker 1: our way. So you enter as a local member, did
Speaker 1: you you? So you're in opposition for eight years, and
Speaker 1: you know that was the Brown Olson years. So they
Speaker 1: were just riven with, you know, tearing each other. Now
Speaker 1: the Liberals eat there young. You know Dean Brown who
Speaker 1: won the ninety three election with the biggest majority in
Speaker 1: the state's history, bigger majority of Mike Graham would say
Speaker 1: than league one you in Singapore, but he didn't see
Speaker 1: out the full term. John Olsen rolled him after three
Speaker 1: years and.
Speaker 2: So for an opposition that was a bit of fun.
Speaker 2: And you know, we nearly won the ninety seven election,
Speaker 2: the one straight after the State Bank election, and then
Speaker 2: scraped in in two thousand and two.
Speaker 1: So what's it like you company, all of a sudden
Speaker 1: you've gone from opposition to being in power. Do you
Speaker 1: immediately have a portfolio? Yeah? Yeah.
Speaker 2: What happens is you go to bed and all of
Speaker 2: the things that you had done for the previous eight
Speaker 2: years where you've just been you know, throwing everything plus
Speaker 2: the kitchen sink at the opposition, and you're you know,
Speaker 2: you've been really sometimes just really nasty and upsetting people
Speaker 2: and maybe abusing and you know, all the horrid things
Speaker 2: you had to do to help your way into You
Speaker 2: have to do that, Yeah, because doesn't the public see
Speaker 2: through that, don't you?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: Well, I don't think Peter Melanaskis has been Peter is
Speaker 2: an exception because I was surprised when he won that
Speaker 2: he ran largely a positive campaign.
Speaker 1: That is not the norm.
Speaker 2: The norm is is that governments don't lose, Sorry, oppositions
Speaker 2: don't win government. Governments lose, so to get a government
Speaker 2: to lose, you go very negative. And it worked for us.
Speaker 2: But when you like the morning after you you've won
Speaker 2: the elections, as if you walk through some sort of
Speaker 2: car wash, and all of the nasty barnacles and horrible
Speaker 2: nature that you have is just you're a saint. You know,
Speaker 2: people who wouldn't talk to you across the street if
Speaker 2: they saw you walking towards them, all of a suddenly
Speaker 2: you're best friends.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: The very first call I got when I became treasurer
Speaker 2: an urgent meeting request from Lee Wicker and Max Bashier.
Speaker 2: Lee had my private number to lobby me because he
Speaker 2: was about to do a deal with the South Adelaide
Speaker 2: footy club to give him some obscene amount of money to.
Speaker 1: Upgrade Solade no longer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, did you give it to him? Not as much
Speaker 2: as they wanted and a bit later than they wanted.
Speaker 2: Had it been Port Adelaide that would have got it
Speaker 2: the next day.
Speaker 1: No, No, it was. We're very ethical. I mean, I
Speaker 1: you did suffer by from criticism some boy. Sometimes your
Speaker 1: behavior would anger people. But if you look back on
Speaker 1: your record, I think there's a lot to be proud of.
Speaker 1: So when you look back, one of the things that
Speaker 1: satisfy you, well, the.
Speaker 2: One that satisfied many of the most was what probably
Speaker 2: you know, angered the majority of my colleagues. But labor
Speaker 2: was in such a hole after the State Bank. We
Speaker 2: had no financial credibility and we had to at least
Speaker 2: get neutral in the public's mind on economics. So I
Speaker 2: ran a very hard budget for nearly ten years. We've
Speaker 2: got state debt down to three billion today it's probably
Speaker 2: in excess of forty.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure this question, and nobody's ever answered it satisfactorily.
Speaker 1: When we have state debt of three billion dollars to
Speaker 1: who do we owe that money?
Speaker 2: We will have borrowed that money from well, we offer
Speaker 2: we issue what we call bonds, where retail investors will
Speaker 2: buy a bond. You know, you'll give me ten thousand
Speaker 2: dollars for ten thousand dollars worth of bonds, which I
Speaker 2: then pay you a return on that and in just
Speaker 2: return on that, and we go to the foreign markets.
Speaker 2: We go we'll borrow maybe from West pack or or
Speaker 2: through some of these larger banks, to the global market.
Speaker 2: What was the biggest amount of money you ever negotiated
Speaker 2: to borrow our financing authority. Well, it would have been
Speaker 2: somewhere between one and three billion at any given sea
Speaker 2: negoti A lot of this stuff. It rolls over.
Speaker 1: Some might be for five years, some might be for
Speaker 1: twelve months, some might be ten, ten years. At one point.
Speaker 2: There we paid all of our state budget dead off.
Speaker 2: We had zero We actually had one hundred and seventy
Speaker 2: a million in the bank. But those were days when.
Speaker 1: You see some answer, whod I borrow it from? Well,
Speaker 1: you said Westpac, or well, no, we would use a
Speaker 1: lot of the major banks and advisory arms of these banks.
Speaker 2: Borrow. So if I go to the global markets and
Speaker 2: I've got a triple A credit rating, that's what's called
Speaker 2: just about zero sovereign risk. That is that you know
Speaker 2: people will lend you that money at a very cheap
Speaker 2: rate relative to the other retail rates or wholesale rates.
Speaker 1: I should say, but you'd.
Speaker 2: Go to Forum, we'd go to Japan and the mirror
Speaker 2: banks of Japan. So we've got to borrow from a bank.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we borrowed a billion dollars. Let's say, let's I
Speaker 1: borrowed a billion dollars from this mirror bank yep, okay,
Speaker 1: how do I pay it back? What are my repayments
Speaker 1: and what are the interest rates? Well, it depends on
Speaker 1: the terms of the borrowing. It'll be for a term.
Speaker 1: We'll give me an example.
Speaker 2: Well, you would service the debt and then the principal.
Speaker 2: You would either pay the principle down or at the
Speaker 2: end of the term, so it's a ten year term,
Speaker 2: you would refinance it for another ten years from the
Speaker 2: same bank or another bank. You shop around and but
Speaker 2: that was a different time and we had to get
Speaker 2: our credentials and come the two thousand and six election,
Speaker 2: we outpolled the Liberals on economics and.
Speaker 1: Finance and we run. You know, we had a huge landslide.
Speaker 1: So that was my best achievement.
Speaker 2: People sort of talk Adelaide oval, but tech port you know,
Speaker 2: the I micran and I kicked that off for seven
Speaker 2: or eight nine years. It wouldn't be there today. We
Speaker 2: wouldn't have.
Speaker 1: The same to explain that. That's the well we.
Speaker 2: First got to office, it was to build what's called
Speaker 2: the Hobart Class three a warfare destroyer ships naval ships.
Speaker 2: The Commonwealth government had built them somewhere in Australia. Who
Speaker 2: chose to build them somewhere in Australia and the Australian
Speaker 2: Submarine Corporation put a bid in and we wrote a
Speaker 2: big check, initially about one hundred million. In the end
Speaker 2: I think it was closer to five hundred million, out
Speaker 2: of which Marshall Government in fact, from memory or whether
Speaker 2: or currently call the Commonwealth bought those facilities. So we
Speaker 2: recovered a lot of that money because the Commonwealth wanted
Speaker 2: to wear in the assets. But we wouldn't have UCST today,
Speaker 2: or the submarine projects or the now seven or six
Speaker 2: or seven Hunter class naval vessels being built if we
Speaker 2: hadn't Microran and I hadn't have built and operated and
Speaker 2: upgraded that facility down at Osbourne. You know, Adelaide Hospital
Speaker 2: topped a lot of criticism for that, but it was
Speaker 2: the right decision at the right I think.
Speaker 1: So we disappointed Marjorie our government wouldn't agree to having
Speaker 1: her name on it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was probably not the best decision making process
Speaker 2: for all of us.
Speaker 1: That was unfortunate. The problem was.
Speaker 2: The Governor Marjorie just didn't like it because she was
Speaker 2: getting criticism.
Speaker 1: Radio. Did you ask your first? Did she asked? Was
Speaker 1: she asked? I am not sure she was to be
Speaker 1: perfectly frank, Well, look, I know you're dying to tell
Speaker 1: me about the Adelaide Oval thing where you shafted the
Speaker 1: sample and the crow shaft of the sandful and the crows.
Speaker 1: You did absolutely back door. I got a statue of
Speaker 1: view there at all. I've got a Deck Graham statue,
Speaker 1: although I think the river front or riverside wherever that
Speaker 1: name is couldn't.
Speaker 2: Look. It was the right thing. We know, we have
Speaker 2: never been a city big enough to hold to have
Speaker 2: two world class stadiums. We're just not rich enough and
Speaker 2: we're not population wise big enough. We had to consolidate.
Speaker 2: The location of the Adelaide Oval was brilliant. Nobody supported me,
Speaker 2: nobody really in my cabinet or caucus other than Pat Conlin.
Speaker 2: And in the of course Mike ran in the end,
Speaker 2: although he was, you.
Speaker 1: Know, quite rightly.
Speaker 2: He wanted to see all the ducks in the line
Speaker 2: and tease and ies Donald and crossed. But I had
Speaker 2: a caucus party room that was largely against me. The
Speaker 2: Liberals were against me.
Speaker 1: Why were they against it?
Speaker 2: Because politics is they didn't want me spending money on sport,
Speaker 2: on sport, and if we were going to spend money
Speaker 2: on sport half a billion or more. It should be
Speaker 2: at grassroots. Well you know you can walking tough gum
Speaker 2: and government. But I had a big backlash from the
Speaker 2: Crows in particular.
Speaker 1: Of course.
Speaker 2: I took phone calls left, right and center from you know,
Speaker 2: people that you know very well, either close friends or
Speaker 2: you've had run ins with it. It was you know,
Speaker 2: I was barely finding a friend in Adelaide. Andrew Demetro
Speaker 2: would ring me and just say, keep the faith, keep
Speaker 2: the faith. We'll get there. So okay for you over
Speaker 2: there in Melbourne. But as it turned out to the
Speaker 2: same decision, didn't you.
Speaker 1: Did well sampy the contract and had you spent the
Speaker 1: money in Footy Park to upgrade which was promised and
Speaker 1: then withdrawn I extended the railro line down so the
Speaker 1: transport wasn't issue. We would still have a great.
Speaker 2: And we wouldn't have this drama when you're still wanting
Speaker 2: West Lakes rather than Adelaide.
Speaker 1: At the time, it would have been a better decision.
Speaker 1: It's been great now, Well there you go.
Speaker 2: It was the right decision because you know, remember Port
Speaker 2: Adelaide were broken, and don't blame the Crows, and I
Speaker 2: sat with Mike Fitzpatrick as chairman and Andrew Demetrio in
Speaker 2: the Sofa Tell Hotel in Melbourne and they made it
Speaker 2: clear to me that they couldn't. They would just tear
Speaker 2: up that contract with the Essay NFL and they'd play
Speaker 2: games of Port Adelaide at Adelaide Oval without the redevelopment
Speaker 2: because they believed it would get a larger crowd. And
Speaker 2: they had no intention, well they had every intention of
Speaker 2: you know, sticking it right up the jumper of the
Speaker 2: Essa NFL. But in the end it's been a savior
Speaker 2: for Port Adelaide financially, it's been a big boom for
Speaker 2: the Crows, and Sack has done pretty well out of
Speaker 2: it as well, and it's lifted our city.
Speaker 1: Okay, so right, I'm going to break Kevin Foley is
Speaker 1: my guest. Folks, bake surely. Kevin Foley and I are
Speaker 1: just arguing. When the microphones were turned off, you can't
Speaker 1: see how he shafted the crows and the sandfill, but anyway,
Speaker 1: we moved on Adelade.
Speaker 2: I don't forget shafting the crows was just like you know,
Speaker 2: when I was a kid at Christmas, I loved it.
Speaker 1: There's many put Adelaide people in positions of power actually
Speaker 1: and probably still are, so just quickly, I mean Adelaide
Speaker 1: ovals and achievement. The submarine precinct is the Royal Adelaide.
Speaker 2: Hospital Desalination Police. Mike and I had to make that call.
Speaker 1: In the end.
Speaker 2: Carleen maywater as well.
Speaker 1: But I don't worry about surely that must increase the
Speaker 1: concentration of salinity down there if.
Speaker 2: You, oh, yeah, it's out there in the ocean floating
Speaker 2: off somewhere. But we had that drought in o seven.
Speaker 2: None of our reservoirs were connected at that point, so
Speaker 2: you could have a full can Gorilla and an empty Barossa.
Speaker 2: So we got those connected, but there's only one year
Speaker 2: of water stock of water in those dams when they're full.
Speaker 2: The Murray, we were sucking up sand from the Murray.
Speaker 2: There was no water there and we had to make that.
Speaker 2: There was no other decision that nobody around that table
Speaker 2: could have or would have made a different decision than
Speaker 2: what we did. And as it's turned out, okay, fifteen
Speaker 2: years later. We always knew it would start raining the
Speaker 2: minute it finished construction, but I only talked to the
Speaker 2: head of SA Water a few weeks back, and it's
Speaker 2: saying that it's pumping out a lot of water.
Speaker 1: Now, can I maybe you don't know the answer that
Speaker 1: it was a drought where there were all the reservoirs
Speaker 1: were empty. Say how much of the state's water or
Speaker 1: the city's water could that desalination plant supply.
Speaker 2: It's a good question now it we get about I
Speaker 2: think we get about ninety percent of our water, eighty
Speaker 2: percent of our water from the Murray. It was down,
Speaker 2: you know, it was very low in that drought. I
Speaker 2: think she's got capacity probably to do fifty sixty percent
Speaker 2: something like.
Speaker 1: We'd have to have severe water water, wouldn't it. Yeah
Speaker 1: enough to drink and yeah, maybe washing.
Speaker 2: But it can pump out enough water that you wouldn't
Speaker 2: unless it was the end of end of time or something.
Speaker 1: There'd always be water coming in the Murray. At some point,
Speaker 1: you had an illustrious career in different portfolios and clashed
Speaker 1: with members of your own party and members of the
Speaker 1: faith of them. The trade unions didn't like you that much.
Speaker 2: It was funny in my early years, you know, I'd
Speaker 2: go to an office of one hundred people and the
Speaker 2: bosses all thought I was a commo because I was
Speaker 2: in the Labor Party, and then I'd go to a
Speaker 2: Labor party meeting in my suit and tie and they
Speaker 2: all think I'm a fascist, Like it was funny days.
Speaker 1: So the incomes were you shafted? I think you were
Speaker 1: shaft the right fact, the right faction.
Speaker 2: Or yeah, look both Mike and I. But I'll talk
Speaker 2: for myself. Yeah I was tapped on the shoulder.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Did you play one season too many? Or did you
Speaker 2: retire when you thought you had more and you just
Speaker 2: faded out?
Speaker 1: Just didn't tell you to just know. Well, I was
Speaker 1: the coach I was playing.
Speaker 2: You go, no wonder you played on?
Speaker 1: Just thought of But how did that conversation?
Speaker 2: Doc Farrell came in to me and that was appropriate
Speaker 2: because it is probably a cricket It might be a
Speaker 2: better analogy, but you know most cricketers at elite levels
Speaker 2: they always think they can go another year or you know, coaja.
Speaker 1: Now and tell me how the conversation went. He's a
Speaker 1: very tactic.
Speaker 2: I should have just been up fromt like that. But
Speaker 2: I don't think it's a secret anywhere. It wasn't just done.
Speaker 2: When we won our third election, I brought down what
Speaker 2: I considered to be my best budget ever. It was
Speaker 2: a shocker, like I was cutting because I wanted to
Speaker 2: bring that what bit of debt we had and the
Speaker 2: yearly I didn't want to run any deficit. So I
Speaker 2: was cutting public servants. I was reducing superannuation benefits to
Speaker 2: public servants.
Speaker 1: I was.
Speaker 2: I was doing some pretty ugly stuff and the union
Speaker 2: because I want to do it in the first budget
Speaker 2: and then you know, sweet and talk our way for
Speaker 2: the next three years.
Speaker 1: But I went far, and it was you know, a
Speaker 1: pretty what was the step too far? Just the quantum
Speaker 1: and the type of budget cuts I was.
Speaker 2: I had put in the budget of public servants and yes,
Speaker 2: and I also we got rid of permanency, so public
Speaker 2: servants there was a mechanism by which, you know, you
Speaker 2: could be sacked as a lengthy process, unlike most private
Speaker 2: sector companies where you get sort of lined up and
Speaker 2: a pullet through the head. The government. I got all
Speaker 2: that in there. So the public sector against me, The
Speaker 2: fieries were against me. I was walked into that convention
Speaker 2: when I was given the word with six armed police
Speaker 2: officers because it was six thousand angry unionists screaming at
Speaker 2: Micrane and I. But at the end of the day,
Speaker 2: I went too long in that job. I think if
Speaker 2: I needed to be taken out where you were angry, Yeah,
Speaker 2: of course I was, And you know I was probably
Speaker 2: used a few people.
Speaker 1: I think the current premier got a fair old ear
Speaker 1: full for me as well. But had you moved to
Speaker 1: the point of view, to the point where you thought
Speaker 1: you were invulnerable, that you were bigger than the party.
Speaker 2: I think it was a little bit of that, to
Speaker 2: be honest, a lot of arrogance. Probably I didn't see
Speaker 2: it coming because we'd only just won an election, third election,
Speaker 2: but that was ten years, and not many politicians ever
Speaker 2: get to serve ten years.
Speaker 1: See Steve Brats.
Speaker 2: I think I only did five years and voluntarily retired.
Speaker 2: Jeff Gallup in WA. I reckon six years and you're
Speaker 2: as treasurer, and see how long Stephen Mulligan stays in
Speaker 2: the job. But they're very draining and you've lost your
Speaker 2: rich There's nothing new I could do. I was bitter.
Speaker 2: I was a bit twisted. I guess I was worn out.
Speaker 2: I was tired. Everyone could see it except myself, and.
Speaker 1: I had taken a toll in your personal life, your
Speaker 1: marriage and relationships. Can you talk to that?
Speaker 2: Oh, well, you know, my wife, Kathy, the mother of
Speaker 2: our children's a beautiful person. She's a fantastic mother of
Speaker 2: our children, our grandchildren. Now we've got four with a
Speaker 2: fifth on the way. But we got married young, similar
Speaker 2: stations in life, and we just grew apart and that
Speaker 2: was a mutual decision. And it must be hard for
Speaker 2: a politicians, whatever policy. So the wife of a policy
Speaker 2: with such a high status. I was never a home
Speaker 2: and you know, Kath had young kids and I wanted
Speaker 2: her to come with me to functions, but we had
Speaker 2: to get babysitters and it was very difficult. It's no
Speaker 2: there's plenty of politicians who do it today and they
Speaker 2: know what it's like. But being a public figure, you know,
Speaker 2: I a fair bit of you know, salacious sort of
Speaker 2: rumors and seeing having a coffee with a friend, you
Speaker 2: know who was that woman and all of that nonsense.
Speaker 2: So that sort of went off and I went a
Speaker 2: little bit off track there, a bit single guy on
Speaker 2: my own. We drank more than I should have after
Speaker 2: work when I got home at midnight or something. That
Speaker 2: was a period, not a long period, but eighteen months,
Speaker 2: two years probably tops. But I am somebody who says
Speaker 2: what is in my head, and I don't have a filter,
Speaker 2: a very good filter. My sons remind me with the grandkids.
Speaker 1: You know, like Dad, you haven't got a filter.
Speaker 2: And I you know, I once accused South Australians at
Speaker 2: a business lunch and for four hundred people that the
Speaker 2: problem with South Australians were all a bunch of winges,
Speaker 2: like you know we are we just winge in South Australia.
Speaker 2: I thought.
Speaker 1: Everyone laughed and clapped.
Speaker 2: I get a phone call from Mike Ran about five
Speaker 2: point thirty in the morning when he got the advertiser
Speaker 2: off the front lawn. There I am on the front page.
Speaker 2: You're all a bunch of wines, screams folly yeah. And
Speaker 2: then when I got out of my show car in
Speaker 2: front of the State Admin, some couple of young guys
Speaker 2: went past at Afolia nothing but a winker, And I.
Speaker 1: Said, rest my case. You went into the profession of
Speaker 1: lobbying when you left. And he's strange enough you're working
Speaker 1: with people who were you bitter end of it.
Speaker 2: Oh look, I don't use the word lobbying. I think
Speaker 2: that's a bit low rent strategic advisor. It's lobbying. Oh
Speaker 2: you may call it that. Yes, Well, when I got
Speaker 2: out of politics, I work with Alexander Downer, Nick Bolkis,
Speaker 2: John Olsen joined us for a period and Ian Smith
Speaker 2: a good friend and yeah, we looked after the interest
Speaker 2: of a number of companies. When that dissolved, alex went
Speaker 2: off to London as High Commissioner. As you know, Ian
Speaker 2: did most of his business out of Melbourne. Then I
Speaker 2: started just doing it myself and now I've just got
Speaker 2: a couple of clients. I do quite a bit of
Speaker 2: work with the Hick and Boffin group, Michael Hickenboffam.
Speaker 1: Well, he could go on.
Speaker 2: Michael terrific man, a terrific person. The family, his sister, Roof.
Speaker 1: And his time have not done a conversation with him.
Speaker 2: He's a very knowledgeable person. He reads a lot. He yeah,
Speaker 2: he's and it's just back from the US where he
Speaker 2: did some studies. He's a very smart person. Had a
Speaker 2: really good blow. Who else are a couple of other
Speaker 2: companies just that you wouldn't know the names.
Speaker 1: It's been great catching up Kevin. That's thanks for sharing
Speaker 1: those stories and those memories that you didn't tell us
Speaker 1: the David Granger's story.
Speaker 2: Oh well, double wicket competition. Whenever there was a naval
Speaker 2: ship in, we.
Speaker 1: Would have a two people would bat for two overs.
Speaker 1: We'd invite the Navy. We'd play the Navy and we
Speaker 1: get a couple of port Adelaid players out. Clifford comes
Speaker 1: out with Granger on outside. You know.
Speaker 2: We were running some raffles and drinks afterwards, a bit
Speaker 2: of a fundraiser as well. The Navy would send down
Speaker 2: twelve six lots of too and I had bought a
Speaker 2: brand new Gray Nichols back, a absolute crack, cost me
Speaker 2: a lot of money, hadn't used it. And where we
Speaker 2: had our cricket gear up, you know, inside the fence.
Speaker 2: I had my bat leaning up against the wall and
Speaker 2: before I knew it, Granger's.
Speaker 1: Pat it up.
Speaker 2: He's grabbed me bloody back. I said, okay, I wanted
Speaker 2: to be the first one to.
Speaker 1: Get an edge, a red edge on the side of it.
Speaker 2: I can get too many in the middle.
Speaker 1: And so he's out there with my bat something that
Speaker 1: living daylights out of the ball, out of the bat
Speaker 1: and the ball, and then he gets bold and out
Speaker 1: so that both of them were out, so they're.
Speaker 2: Walking off and Granger has tossed in Anger.
Speaker 1: He's tossed my bat one hundred.
Speaker 2: Meters in the air, might be twenty ten. It's come
Speaker 2: down on the handle and split it on you know
Speaker 2: today it would be a four or five hundred dollars bat.
Speaker 2: And then my brain I hadn't touched it. And I
Speaker 2: was furious, because you may notice from time to time
Speaker 2: I have a bit of a temper at times. And
Speaker 2: I said, bug at this, and my mates looked at
Speaker 2: me because I went out to have a crack at him,
Speaker 2: not physically, but have a go with him. And I
Speaker 2: just looked at him, and his eyes stared at me,
Speaker 2: and he's, what's your problem?
Speaker 1: Lad? I wasn't much older younger than them. Is what's
Speaker 1: your problem? Lad?
Speaker 2: Or he might have said, p R I pre course,
Speaker 2: I don't know, but it was pretty aggressive. And again,
Speaker 2: you know, like my football career, all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: no courage. I said, oh that's okay, Dave, not a problem, mate.
Speaker 2: I just came out here to pick up my bat
Speaker 2: and my handle, and you know, I just buckled under
Speaker 2: Granger and he never.
Speaker 1: Apologized, and he never forgot it.
Speaker 2: No no, so we both got Granger stories. I think
Speaker 2: yours is a little bit more sensational, but over the days.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for coming mate. Thanks, thank you folks.