Speaker 1: Why.
Speaker 2: On Sky News This is Sharry.
Speaker 3: Good Evening Tonight, Benjamin Netanyahu declares the tyrants will pay
Speaker 3: after Iran strikes.
Speaker 4: In Israeli hospital.
Speaker 3: Will cross live to Israel for the latest news with
Speaker 3: former director of the Prime Minister's Press Office Division in
Speaker 3: the MAGA movement as Trump signs off and plans to
Speaker 3: strike Iran. I'll have full coverage with former Ambassador to
Speaker 3: Israel Dave Sharma, plus.
Speaker 4: James Morrow and Matt Canavan.
Speaker 3: Also on the show, Ben roberts Smith's bid for justice
Speaker 3: in the High Court after nine paid a witness hush
Speaker 3: money ahead of the appeal trial. More with Chris Merrit
Speaker 3: a bit later, and Caroline Marcus brings us the latest
Speaker 3: on tonight's meeting where Victorian Liberals will decide whether to
Speaker 3: lend John Pezzuto one point five million or sent him bankrupt,
Speaker 3: ending his political career. That'll be big news and it's
Speaker 3: all coming up tonight to the devastating Iranian attack on
Speaker 3: an Israeli hospital. Here was the moment the Iranian strike
Speaker 3: hit Soroka Hospital in Beer Sheva in southern Israel during
Speaker 3: the morning hours.
Speaker 4: Al this is a war crime.
Speaker 3: Israel has only been targeting Iranian nuclear and military sites.
Speaker 3: While Iran has deliberately been killing civilians, this hospital strike
Speaker 3: just hours ago is the most devastating act of destructive
Speaker 3: intents so far, and it shows this evil regime has
Speaker 3: to be stopped.
Speaker 4: Doesen'ts have been injured?
Speaker 3: Israeli Prime Minister benjaminette and Yah who responded tonight warning
Speaker 3: that this morning Iran's terrorist tyrants launched missiles at Soroka
Speaker 3: Hospital in Eshebba and at a civilian population in the
Speaker 3: center of the country. He says we will exact the
Speaker 3: full price from the tyrants in Tehran, and Israeli President
Speaker 3: Isaac Kurtzog said this hospital cares for Israelis of all faiths,
Speaker 3: even Palestinian neighbors, and he wrote on social media a
Speaker 3: baby in intensive care, a mother by their bedside, a
Speaker 3: doctor rushing between beds, an elderly resident in a nursing home.
Speaker 3: These were some of the targets of Iran's missile attacks
Speaker 3: on Israeli civilians this morning. Iran claims it was targeting
Speaker 3: an IDF base, yet there's no military facility nearby, and
Speaker 3: this was the chaos that unfolded inside the hospital when
Speaker 3: the strike.
Speaker 4: Hit Nasim hud Nashi who.
Speaker 3: Dashi Israelis are paying with their lives, learning that even
Speaker 3: a hospital is no longer safe in order to fight
Speaker 3: Iran on behalf of the West.
Speaker 4: Because while Iran has its.
Speaker 3: Missiles trained on Israel, death to America is one of
Speaker 3: its slogans, and it despises the values that embody Western civilization.
Speaker 4: But the more crucial point is this.
Speaker 3: If Iran is prepared to deliberately hit in Israeli hospital
Speaker 3: to kill the injured and sick, then imagine what they
Speaker 3: do with a nuclear weapon. They wouldn't hesitate to use
Speaker 3: a nuclear bomb against innocent people or to promote their
Speaker 3: Islamist revolutionary agenda. Now, just last night, Israel's Deputy Foreign
Speaker 3: Minister Sharen Haskell said on this show that if Iran
Speaker 3: keeps killing in his civilians, then Israel would consider eliminating
Speaker 3: the Supreme Leader, Ayotola Ali Kamani.
Speaker 4: And Trump has declared that he's safe, but Israel hasn't.
Speaker 4: So here's what Charen said.
Speaker 5: This is not right now one of our aimed, but
Speaker 5: if they push it, you know, we cannot promise what
Speaker 5: will happen.
Speaker 2: Also afterwards, and.
Speaker 3: With this shocking attack on Israel's hospital today, just in
Speaker 3: the past few hours. This firmly puts on the table
Speaker 3: the possibility that Israel could decide to take out the
Speaker 3: Supreme Leader, because Israel can't simply sit back while Iran
Speaker 3: now hits hospitals already after it first sponsored the October
Speaker 3: seven massacre and the terrorism of Hesbalah, there's been enough
Speaker 3: loss and tragedy. Well, the signs are now that Trump
Speaker 3: is preparing to strike Iran imminently. He's privately approved the
Speaker 3: attack plans that would be carried out, but he hasn't
Speaker 3: given the final order, at least publicly, And of course
Speaker 3: he's giving no public indication of when this could or
Speaker 3: will happen. He's keeping the world, especially Iran, on edge.
Speaker 6: I may do it, I may not do it. I mean,
Speaker 6: nobody knows what I'm going to do.
Speaker 2: I can tell you there is that Iran's got a
Speaker 2: lot of trouble.
Speaker 3: General war is very complex, A lot of bad things
Speaker 3: can happen, a lot of turns are made, so I
Speaker 3: don't know.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say that we want anything yet. I would
Speaker 2: say that we're sure as hell made a lot.
Speaker 7: Of progress, and we'll see the next week is going
Speaker 7: to be very big, maybe less than a week, maybe less.
Speaker 3: And Trump is saying he'll make a decision a second before.
Speaker 3: But Israel is hardly sitting back waiting for.
Speaker 4: The United States.
Speaker 3: Overnight, it destroyed another twenty military targets in Iran, continuing.
Speaker 3: It's incredible military and intelligent success during this war. And
Speaker 3: it's a success that naturally impresses Trump, and he is likely,
Speaker 3: in my view, to order the B two bombers with
Speaker 3: the bunker buster bombs to hit the four dough Nucleoste
Speaker 3: and potentially another. And he'll do this despite the hysterical
Speaker 3: public protests from anti Americans who claim to be American first,
Speaker 3: and the most prominent of these is Tucker Carlson. Tucker
Speaker 3: is dressing up his anti Western views as die hard
Speaker 3: maga when it's the exact opposite. In intelligent circles, he's
Speaker 3: considered a pawn and.
Speaker 4: Propagandital of Russias.
Speaker 3: But we know that he defends Russia and Iran, two
Speaker 3: of the countries that form the Axis of evil and
Speaker 3: seek to overturn democracy and American dominance. It's a point
Speaker 3: Ted Cruz called him out on in their interview that dominated.
Speaker 4: Political circles globally today.
Speaker 8: I don't understand for some reason you are really invested
Speaker 8: in defending Russian I don't get that. I'm not attacking
Speaker 8: you with that. I'm genuinely like, I don't get why
Speaker 8: you're you're so passionate about defending Russia.
Speaker 3: That was a messy interview where the promo snippet didn't
Speaker 3: look good for Ted Cruz, even though it was a
Speaker 3: gotcha question about the population size of Iran?
Speaker 2: How many people living around? By the way, I don't
Speaker 2: know the population at all. No, I don't know the population.
Speaker 2: You don't know the population of the country you seek
Speaker 2: to topple.
Speaker 8: Why is it relevant whether it will because ninety million
Speaker 8: or eighty million or one hundred million?
Speaker 2: What because if you don't know anything about the.
Speaker 8: Country, I didn't say I don't know anything about Okay,
Speaker 8: what's the ethnic mix of Iran? They are Persians and
Speaker 8: well predominantly Shia. Okay, you don't know anything about Iran.
Speaker 8: So okay, I'm not the Tucker Carlson vicksbird on Iran.
Speaker 2: Who's calling at the country.
Speaker 3: MESSI like I said, now, Tucker employs the journalistic technique
Speaker 3: of interrupting every sentence, not letting him finish a sentence
Speaker 3: with an incredulous question or accusation seeking to undermine Cruise's
Speaker 3: statements and make him look stupid to the audience.
Speaker 4: And you know, it's a classic technique, the ABC do
Speaker 4: it all the time.
Speaker 3: But over the course of the interview, Ted Cruz did
Speaker 3: call out Tucker's hypocrisies and anti Western views, and Cruiz
Speaker 3: does have the moral authority, not Tucker Carlson.
Speaker 2: So you want to ask how to supporting Israel benefit us?
Speaker 8: Right now, this tiny little country the size of the
Speaker 8: state of New Jersey is fighting our enemies for us
Speaker 8: and taking out their top military leadership and trying to
Speaker 8: take out their nuclear capacity.
Speaker 2: That makes America much safer.
Speaker 3: Exactly, Young Israelis are fighting America's enemy for it.
Speaker 4: They are shouldering the burden of this fight.
Speaker 3: All that's asked of Trump is to deploy the bunker
Speaker 3: busters to take out the nucleo sites that.
Speaker 4: Are too deep underground. Now it's head Crews.
Speaker 3: Also called out what he claimed, and I agree with,
Speaker 3: was his weird obsession with Israel.
Speaker 8: By the way, Tucker, it's a very weird thing. The
Speaker 8: obsession with Israel. Well, we're talking about for it country.
Speaker 8: You're not talking about Chinese, you're not talking about Japanese,
Speaker 8: and we're not talking about the Brits, you're not talking
Speaker 8: about the French.
Speaker 2: The question what about the Jews? What about the Jews?
Speaker 8: You Sam might now, Senator, you're just in the questions
Speaker 8: Tucker to me, you're asking why are the Jews controlling
Speaker 8: our foreign policy?
Speaker 2: That's what you just asked, hardly saying that, and I
Speaker 2: have that It's exactly what you just said.
Speaker 3: And as you know, Trump already described Tucker as kooky
Speaker 3: this week. Well, influential figures like Steve Bannon are now
Speaker 3: starting to say that MAGA will follow Trump with whatever
Speaker 3: he decides to do.
Speaker 9: President Trump decides to do that I know, and particularly
Speaker 9: his skills as a communicator, that he will come and
Speaker 9: walk people through it in the MAGA movement. Look, there'll
Speaker 9: be some, but the vast majority of the Mega movement go, look,
Speaker 9: we trust your judgment.
Speaker 7: You've walked us through this.
Speaker 2: We don't like it, in fact, maybe we hate it,
Speaker 2: but you know, we'll get on board.
Speaker 4: And it's true.
Speaker 3: And it's a good thing that Bannon is now backing
Speaker 3: in Trump. It indicates this is the action Trump is
Speaker 3: going to take.
Speaker 4: And it's right.
Speaker 3: Voters will and should trust Trump's judgment. Supreme Leader Ayatollah
Speaker 3: Ali Kamani is still refusing to surrender, a point he
Speaker 3: made in a nationwide television address.
Speaker 10: The Iranian nation will not surrender to anyone aiming to
Speaker 10: impose anything on it. The damage to America if it
Speaker 10: gets militarily involved, would be an irreparable damage.
Speaker 2: No doubt.
Speaker 3: But the time for talks and negotiation has passed. Trump
Speaker 3: made that clear when Putin offered to broker a deal
Speaker 3: between Iran and America. Trump told him to sort out
Speaker 3: his own ceasefire first.
Speaker 7: I said, Vladimir, let's mediate Russia first.
Speaker 6: You can worry about this later.
Speaker 3: And it's interesting because when not even Putin is taking
Speaker 3: Iran's side, I mean, it was offering to mediate, so
Speaker 3: he's not even taking Iran's side. It's an indication of
Speaker 3: just how isolated the Islamic Republic is, which makes it
Speaker 3: even more bizarre why Penny Wang kept implying there was
Speaker 3: an equivalence between Iran and Israel in refusing to explicitly
Speaker 3: endorse Israel's fight against Iran. The Albanese government has been
Speaker 3: extremely out of step with the international community, and Penny
Speaker 3: Wang has even had to change her language over the
Speaker 3: past week to slightly strengthen her criticism of Iran, yet
Speaker 3: she still can't endorse Israel's actions, and on Sunday on Insiders,
Speaker 3: she urged both Israel and Iran to de escalate. She
Speaker 3: even had a phone conversation with the Iranian foreign minister,
Speaker 3: yet as far as I know, she didn't speak to Israel.
Speaker 4: She's shattered the relationship with Israel.
Speaker 3: University of Melbourne professor of political science Timothy Leech wrote
Speaker 3: about the absurd foreign policy position of the Albanese government
Speaker 3: in a brilliant article today. He said that the Albanese
Speaker 3: government is prone to Wongism, the belief that negotiation and
Speaker 3: restraint is the solution to every conflict.
Speaker 4: Wogism.
Speaker 3: He says, we've lost the stomach for armed confrontation and
Speaker 3: have defunded.
Speaker 4: The Australian military to prove it. And I think that
Speaker 4: puts it so well.
Speaker 3: It explains the bizarre refusal of albin Easy to invest
Speaker 3: more in defense when every other major country around the
Speaker 3: world accepts this necessity, and most are not even on
Speaker 3: the frontline of an aggressive China like we are now.
Speaker 3: In the article, Timothy leech Lynch also writes, did Israel
Speaker 3: just call a halt to all? That this little liberal democracy,
Speaker 3: which is ten times smaller than the state of Victoria,
Speaker 3: has done more to advance the rights progressives demand, gender quality, LGDPQI, liberation,
Speaker 3: religious freedom than an Iranian theocracy designed against them. And
Speaker 3: Timothy even praises Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahoo for his contribution
Speaker 3: to civilizational flourishing. He writes, few democratic leaders ended the
Speaker 3: careers and lives of more fascists than Thatcher after nineteen
Speaker 3: eighty two, and yet in Yahoo since last weekend. But
Speaker 3: it is their detractors who claim to be principled anti fascists.
Speaker 3: They're detractors who claim to be principled anti fascists, Isn't
Speaker 3: that brilliantly put? And that's been the absurdity of the
Speaker 3: Albaneze government's position this entire time. They've preferred to take
Speaker 3: the side of Islamist regimes that oppose everything the progressive
Speaker 3: left supposedly stand for, instead of backing Israel, which is
Speaker 3: on the right side of history. Donald Trump knows this
Speaker 3: that Israel's on the right side of history, Yet he
Speaker 3: is under pressure from the Republican isolationists. Trump's decision on
Speaker 3: whether to support Israel in eliminating nuclear sites should not
Speaker 3: be driven by the narrow, reactionary lens of the Maga ethos.
Speaker 4: It should be made with the knowledge.
Speaker 3: That he has the power to restore global stability with
Speaker 3: a move of such consequence that will cement his legacy.
Speaker 3: Trump can be the president who ends Iran's nuclear weapons program,
Speaker 3: a feat that eluded many others. It would also be
Speaker 3: supported by international leaders. If he chooses to do this,
Speaker 3: he'll be elevated in the history books to a figure
Speaker 3: of political courage and greatness. If he chooses not to
Speaker 3: do this, he'll earn a reputation for cowardice, already reflected
Speaker 3: in his nickname Taco Trump always chickens out. The Pentagon
Speaker 3: is currently getting its ducks in a row. The military,
Speaker 3: arsenal and infrastructure are almost in place in preparation for
Speaker 3: the American strikes, and they could be as soon as
Speaker 3: Friday night or this weekend. Despite the pressure mounting, I
Speaker 3: expect the President will make the right call, and I
Speaker 3: think he already has all right big show coming out
Speaker 3: across live to Israel with a former director of the
Speaker 3: Prime Minister's Press Office, Shotley, plus Dave Sharma. But now
Speaker 3: let's bring in tonight's panel, National Senator Matt Canavan and
Speaker 3: Sky News' host James Morrow, and let's start without the
Speaker 3: fracturing of the Republican.
Speaker 4: Party and the MAGA movement.
Speaker 3: Matt, this is exposing the very real ideological differences in
Speaker 3: the MAGA movement, isn't it?
Speaker 6: It sure is, Shari.
Speaker 11: I mean, Donald Trump really launched himself onto the national
Speaker 11: stage in a debate in South Carolina in twenty sixteen
Speaker 11: when he evicerated the then I supposed Bush doctrine in
Speaker 11: the Middle East. It was very controversial, little gasp in
Speaker 11: the audience when he did, but he kind of won
Speaker 11: that debate. He won that debate that the so called
Speaker 11: Forever Wars were a mistake and should never have happened.
Speaker 11: And I suppose I'm also I'm concerned here right now.
Speaker 11: I mean, have we learned the lessons of the last
Speaker 11: twenty years, So I'm very worried about what's happening here.
Speaker 11: I think it's very important when you get involved in
Speaker 11: any conflict situation to know exactly what the objective is
Speaker 11: that needs to be clear, and also how are you
Speaker 11: going to get out of it? And I'm not so
Speaker 11: sure what the objective here is because I hear different
Speaker 11: things the last few weeks. Is it the nuclear program,
Speaker 11: is it regime change. I'd be very concerned about the latter.
Speaker 11: Between a country three times the size of Iraq with
Speaker 11: three times of population, it hasn't worked very well today
Speaker 11: the last twenty years, and I think that's something that
Speaker 11: the debate needs to take into consideration here. Whenever the
Speaker 11: US has intervened in the Middle East, in North Africa,
Speaker 11: it's usually made things worse. So I just think it
Speaker 11: is good to pause here. I hope the President is
Speaker 11: considering all of these things very deeply because it has
Speaker 11: huge implications for the world, and.
Speaker 3: Of course he is considering them very deeply. But you know, James,
Speaker 3: and I respect Matt's point of view. Of course I
Speaker 3: respect Matt enormously, But James, if you can't, I'd bring
Speaker 3: yourself to destroy a nuclear facility that Iran has refused
Speaker 3: to agree to stop producing uranium, that even the IAEA
Speaker 3: has called out that they're not abiding by the protocols.
Speaker 3: They're refusing inspectors into several sites. I mean if he
Speaker 3: can't take that basic decision to destroy a nuclear facility,
Speaker 3: then there is no US leadership anymore.
Speaker 6: Well, I don't think i'd go that far. I'd say this.
Speaker 6: You know, there is a very respectable America first position
Speaker 6: that says, assisting with B two bombers to blow up
Speaker 6: the photo nuclear site here with these bunker buster bombs
Speaker 6: is something that fits within that category. Because you're not
Speaker 6: talking about boots on the ground. The second you're talking
Speaker 6: about any American boots on the ground in Iran, I
Speaker 6: would be exceedingly very nervous about that in the same
Speaker 6: sort of matter is But I think that you have
Speaker 6: to telescope about the history of this year. You know,
Speaker 6: we're very much focused on Iran and the nuclear deal,
Speaker 6: and you know this position that we're in, ironically has
Speaker 6: been created by the Obama administration, by previous American administration,
Speaker 6: so we're trying to undo that. But I have to
Speaker 6: go back for the nineteen seventy nine and the Iranian revolution.
Speaker 6: And you know, as far as I'm concerned, from the
Speaker 6: moment the Revolutionary Guards and the students who later became
Speaker 6: the Revolutionary Guards stormed that embassy and held American hostages
Speaker 6: for four hundred and forty four days. You know, a
Speaker 6: state of war has essentially existed between the Iranian clerical
Speaker 6: regime and the United States. I think to do something
Speaker 6: to collapse that regime, not occupy Iran and install our
Speaker 6: own personal though it would be great to see the
Speaker 6: Shah come back and great see you know, the Iranian
Speaker 6: royal family come back in to the picture giants. Yeah, Matt,
Speaker 6: you got to go.
Speaker 11: You've got to go further back, James, I mean the
Speaker 11: six and the CIA toppled, they raise a khan that's sorry,
Speaker 11: the Mussadae democratically elected government in nineteen fifty three. Before that,
Speaker 11: the British government installed an Imperial Army general in nineteen
Speaker 11: twenty five in Iran, displicing a monarchy that exists in
Speaker 11: sevento eighty nine. I mean, it's I mean, how many
Speaker 11: times should we interfere?
Speaker 12: And in.
Speaker 6: Century? They say, yeah, look, I mean.
Speaker 11: It hasn't and things gotten worse and worse and worse
Speaker 11: every time.
Speaker 6: Well okay, but Matt, you know, sorry, like you know,
Speaker 6: I do have to sort of say that the idea
Speaker 6: of this molocracy, you know, with nuclear weapons is simply
Speaker 6: you know, not a good thing for the world. And
Speaker 6: even without the even without the nuclear weapons, even with
Speaker 6: the nuclear weapons, this regime has been a sponsor of
Speaker 6: absolute horrendous terrorism. You know, it created the Lebanese civil
Speaker 6: war with Hezbollah, It you know, sponsored Hamas, It sponsors
Speaker 6: all sorts of really bad, destabilizing things. If you can
Speaker 6: cross that off of the balance sheet of the Middle East,
Speaker 6: that regime. You know, the Iranian people don't like this
Speaker 6: regime much either, you know, so you know, this isn't
Speaker 6: like an Iraq situation where Iraq you know, had nothing
Speaker 6: to do with nine to eleven and did not have WMDs,
Speaker 6: and that was you know that we were lied into
Speaker 6: that war, and you know, I totally acknowledge that, and
Speaker 6: that was a mistake, but we can't let that mistake,
Speaker 6: and it was a terrible mistake of the West to
Speaker 6: then say we will never go and assist in any
Speaker 6: sort of promotion of our own ends again. And you know,
Speaker 6: that's where that's where I differ from the Strong America.
Speaker 6: First is I think that you know, this sort of
Speaker 6: foreign policy is perfectly within that agenda. You're not talking about,
Speaker 6: you know, the road to Tehran or anything like that.
Speaker 6: You're just talking about blowing up a facility and.
Speaker 3: Going away exactly, and just to have the final say
Speaker 3: on that, I mean, America verse has got a main
Speaker 3: putting America Verse, which means not letting America's greatest enemy.
Speaker 4: In Iran have a nuclear weapon.
Speaker 3: All right, let's move on to renewable Labor's renewable agenda.
Speaker 3: Treasurer and Jim Chalmers spoke about this at the Press Club.
Speaker 4: Have a look.
Speaker 7: The global net zero transition will also reshape our revenue
Speaker 7: from resources. Now, this evolution in our revenue base is
Speaker 7: one of the reasons tax reform is so crucial to
Speaker 7: budget sustainability, on top of restraining spending, finding savings and
Speaker 7: working on longer term spending pressures.
Speaker 3: All right, Matt, I know you're fired up about this,
Speaker 3: and it does sound like net zero could be more
Speaker 3: expensive than we.
Speaker 4: Have been told.
Speaker 11: Absolutely right, Shoes is a shocking admission from the Treasurer.
Speaker 11: They're really hearing for the first time. Officially, I mean
Speaker 11: unofficially and myself have been pointing out the fact that
Speaker 11: net zero is going to cost Australia a fortune, particularly
Speaker 11: given our second and third biggest exports are fossil fuels.
Speaker 11: But what we've seen from the government to date until
Speaker 11: this shocking admission, is that somehow, I know that's okay,
Speaker 11: they say, because we're going to become a green energy
Speaker 11: export superpower, and primarily with something called hydrogen. Sometimes is
Speaker 11: an idea will export solar power through the northern territory
Speaker 11: as well, these crazy ideas, and the idea, I suppose
Speaker 11: with the assumption has been that well, those incomestrooms, those
Speaker 11: export revenues will just simply replace may even that they
Speaker 11: may even grow further than what we export from coal
Speaker 11: and gas. But the Treasurer has just admitted that actually
Speaker 11: pursuing that zero is going to come at a major
Speaker 11: cost to the federal budget. And then the other thing
Speaker 11: that he sort of slipped in there was, you know,
Speaker 11: it's sort of cute, doesn't it, Shari When they say
Speaker 11: tax reform, whenever they hear the word tax reform, that
Speaker 11: means tax increases. Because he said when he tax reform
Speaker 11: increases sustainability of the budget, that means he wants more revenue.
Speaker 2: He wants more taxes from you.
Speaker 11: And it would be nice if politicians just said what
Speaker 11: they mean sometimes and clearly what the Treasurer means right
Speaker 11: now is to increase your taxes.
Speaker 3: Indeed, there's a lot of tax hikes disguised as reform.
Speaker 3: Let's turn to the breaking news this afternoon, that is
Speaker 3: X rocket exploited during routine testing.
Speaker 4: And it doesn't look like Elon Musk.
Speaker 3: Has commented yet. Maybe we can have a look at
Speaker 3: that vision. As we're chatting James, what is SpaceX saying about.
Speaker 6: This, Well, all I've seen from them is basically a
Speaker 6: statement saying something went really wrong, and we are investigating
Speaker 6: what went wrong here. Now, you know, this is a
Speaker 6: huge economic task free Luckily, I believe there was no
Speaker 6: space answer said there's been no loss of life, no
Speaker 6: casualties to say, everybody stay away from the area while
Speaker 6: we figure out what went wrong. Obviously this is a
Speaker 6: terrible disaster. But you know, on the other hand, Elon
Speaker 6: Musk I think has a good sort of message about
Speaker 6: these sort of failures. He says, you know, you learn
Speaker 6: from mistakes you make, and you keep going and you
Speaker 6: accept that these things are going to happen, and without casualty,
Speaker 6: that's great. Space expiration is going to be a dangerous business.
Speaker 6: But I am one of those people who actually think
Speaker 6: space exploration is also you know, a good idea just
Speaker 6: from a technological scientific Yeah, human had any point of view, No.
Speaker 4: Indeed, I think it is as well.
Speaker 3: And just finally, before we go, highly embarrassing story in
Speaker 3: the Australian Today about a senior editor at the Sydney
Speaker 3: Morning Herald, David King. He was on a conference call
Speaker 3: with journalists when he started stripping off. Matt, this was
Speaker 3: probably understandable in the COVID era, but how doesn't everyone
Speaker 3: learned now to deal with their cameras.
Speaker 6: Well?
Speaker 11: I mean, far be for me to cast the first shari.
Speaker 11: I regularly forget to unmute my mic, even after.
Speaker 2: All these years.
Speaker 11: Hope I'll never do anything as embarrassing as this is.
Speaker 11: Very embarrassing. Of course he was going on a workout though,
Speaker 11: so hopefully ever happens again, he'll be in much better
Speaker 11: shape for everyone.
Speaker 3: There you go, all right, Matt Canavan, James ay, good
Speaker 3: to see you both. All right, Well, let's return to
Speaker 3: the terrible news this afternoon that Soroko Hospital in southern
Speaker 3: Israel has been hit with a ballistic missile from Iran. Well,
Speaker 3: Israel precisely targets military sites and nuclear facilities Iran is
Speaker 3: trying to kill innocent civilians in hospitals.
Speaker 4: It's sickening and unacceptable.
Speaker 3: And for more that's cross live now to Israel, where
Speaker 3: the longtime director of the Prime Minister's Press office, Daniel Seaman.
Speaker 4: Joins me. Daniel, thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 3: What can you tell us about this devastating attack and
Speaker 3: are the hits from Iran overnight?
Speaker 2: Well, they attacked this will twice through the night.
Speaker 12: I think they were very kind to not to do
Speaker 12: this in the middle of the night, just before we
Speaker 12: went to sleep, and then to wake us up in
Speaker 12: the morning.
Speaker 2: But that's that.
Speaker 12: Cynicism is part of our attitude here. The first attack
Speaker 12: there were no real casualties. The second one they hit
Speaker 12: in Tel Aviv area, and the other one is in
Speaker 12: the hospital in Soroca, which completely destroyed the whole part
Speaker 12: of that hospital. The interesting thing is that yesterday Soroka
Speaker 12: evacuated that entire part of the hospital understanding that it
Speaker 12: is not secure enough, and as a result, we had
Speaker 12: this miracle this morning that only a few slightly injured,
Speaker 12: but the hospital they had to evacuate the patients and
Speaker 12: move them to other hospitals, and now they have to restore,
Speaker 12: and they're opening up parts of the hospital that have
Speaker 12: been closed down for years to bring back the people
Speaker 12: from the area of the south of It's the major
Speaker 12: hospital in the south of Israel. So we're looking We
Speaker 12: constantly focus on the fortunate aspect of it and not
Speaker 12: at the tragedies.
Speaker 3: Daniel, When you see that Iran continues to deliberately target
Speaker 3: civilians a hospital, does this increase pressure on the United States,
Speaker 3: on Trump to step in and support Israel.
Speaker 12: I can't speak for the Americans. It's not us, and
Speaker 12: we're not looking for them to do that. We've been
Speaker 12: able to take care of this very well on our own.
Speaker 12: But our point is that this is not Israel's battle.
Speaker 12: We have been thrusted into the center of this because
Speaker 12: Iran for many years, has built this through the tentacles
Speaker 12: of the octopus, have built this attempt to annihilate.
Speaker 2: Israel, which they call the little Satan.
Speaker 12: The great Satan is not only the United States, but
Speaker 12: what represents to them is the entire Western world, and
Speaker 12: we're just the closest to them. So their part, what
Speaker 12: their attent or intention was to rid themselves first of us,
Speaker 12: and then they were building intercontinental ballistic missiles.
Speaker 2: Israel, as you.
Speaker 12: Can see, is like twelve minutes away. They don't need
Speaker 12: intercontinental ballistic missiles for US that's to target Europe and
Speaker 12: the United States.
Speaker 2: They can already reach Europe.
Speaker 12: So what we're trying to say here is it's not
Speaker 12: only our battle, but we're handling it. If they want
Speaker 12: to join in, we're not going to prevent them from
Speaker 12: doing it. But right now we understand what our mission
Speaker 12: is here, and our goal is to rid them of
Speaker 12: the ability of having nuclear weapons so they don't pose
Speaker 12: an existential threat to Israel anymore.
Speaker 3: Indeed, Daniel Nadiyahu has responded as saying that the tyrants
Speaker 3: of Tehran will pay. Already all of the senior leadership,
Speaker 3: particularly the military leadership, have been killed. So could this
Speaker 3: mean do you think that it's possible the Supreme leader
Speaker 3: will be targeted?
Speaker 12: I don't know. We can't say what could or could
Speaker 12: not happen. There are many things that have to be
Speaker 12: taken into consideration with the targeting of a religious leader.
Speaker 12: Not only we may not like the religion, but still
Speaker 12: he is a religious leader for many on their side.
Speaker 12: The one thing you can say about both Trump and
Speaker 12: e TANIAO. They have been very unconventional in their thinking
Speaker 12: regarding the Middle East. All these things that were accepted
Speaker 12: as principles over the past forty fifty years, they've changed.
Speaker 12: First off, the Abrahamic Accords. Everybody always thought that you
Speaker 12: have to make Israel, has to make concessions, recognize the
Speaker 12: other side, et cetera, et cetera. They said, no, here
Speaker 12: abrahaming of courts. There's other ways of going about this.
Speaker 12: The same thing regarding the war against the terrorists and
Speaker 12: all we're taking them on. We're no longer trying to
Speaker 12: appease them. So there may be other options here with
Speaker 12: Tehran that weren't nobody's thought about. For example, in Gaza,
Speaker 12: nobody they all kept saying that the day after has
Speaker 12: to be the Palestinian authority taking over. Now they've offered
Speaker 12: what Trump and Natania are offering, This relocation of the
Speaker 12: Gaza strip, something nobody accepted, which is acceptable all around
Speaker 12: the world. So here, even in Tehran, there may be
Speaker 12: another option, such as perhaps the leadership believing and then
Speaker 12: the United States will not have to have boots on
Speaker 12: the ground. But in Germany and Japan, we have those
Speaker 12: examples from history that showed the United States can go
Speaker 12: in there and guide this country just like they did
Speaker 12: with Japan and Germany after World War Two, guide them
Speaker 12: to being a democracy and a functioning country without being
Speaker 12: their enemy.
Speaker 3: All right, Daniel Seaman, really appreciate your time and your insights.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much. Now still to come.
Speaker 3: Dave Sharma rips into the weak response from the Albaneze
Speaker 3: government on Iran's nuclear build up. Plus Ben Robert Smith
Speaker 3: fights for justice with a bid to take his case
Speaker 3: to the High Court.
Speaker 4: That's next.
Speaker 3: Welcome back, Victoria Cross recipient Ben Robert Smith wants to
Speaker 3: take his legal fight against.
Speaker 4: Nine to the High Court.
Speaker 3: This in a final effort to overturn findings that, on
Speaker 3: the balance of probabilities, he committed war crimes. Robert Smith
Speaker 3: has filed an application for special leave to appeal. He's
Speaker 3: seeking a new trial, requesting nine's former witness P seventeen
Speaker 3: can give evidence about her conversation with Nick McKenzie, the
Speaker 3: journalist for Nine, which was caught on tape.
Speaker 10: I shouldn't tell you preach ethics in doing that like
Speaker 10: this is where like this is to position now if
Speaker 10: they knew that, impeat to you that.
Speaker 4: In a separate notice.
Speaker 3: The former SAS soldier also claims he was denied the
Speaker 3: presumption of innocence in the defamation trial. And we also
Speaker 3: note that the Full Court of the Federal Court dismissed
Speaker 3: Ben Robert Smith's appeal and rejected his arguments that nine
Speaker 3: had improperly accessed his legally privileged information. Now for more details,
Speaker 3: I'm joined by The Australian's Legal Affairs contributor Chris Merritt.
Speaker 4: Chris, thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 3: Now, there is evidence that I've outlined on this show
Speaker 3: that suggests nine did have access to Ben Roberts Smith's emails.
Speaker 4: So this avenue.
Speaker 3: Surely needs to be explored to see what precisely they
Speaker 3: had and whether it was privileged.
Speaker 1: That's the in a nutshell, that's the basis of Ben
Speaker 1: Robert Smith's attempt to reopen this case. He's arguing thatudence
Speaker 1: was concealed. He says the Full Federal Court was wrong
Speaker 1: on this point and on the basis of one document,
Speaker 1: a draft statement of claim, which he says was suppressed
Speaker 1: during the appeal process. He wants to reopen the hearing,
Speaker 1: have a new trial and cross examine his former lover
Speaker 1: on assertions she made in this document. Now he argues
Speaker 1: that if he's able to do that, he would be
Speaker 1: able to introduce evidence about exactly what nine knew, exactly
Speaker 1: what evidence they had, which he says was concealed, and.
Speaker 3: He's claiming and Nine's denying, but he's claiming that it
Speaker 3: amounts to misconduct and that he was denied a fair
Speaker 3: trial because she was Nine's witness. She'd made allegations that
Speaker 3: she threatened to put them before the judge, and then
Speaker 3: she was paid seven hundred thousand dollars in hush money
Speaker 3: by Channel nine, by the Sydney Morning Herald, which is
Speaker 3: utterly extraordinary.
Speaker 4: And Chris, they've never publicly excp.
Speaker 3: Explained why they would pay a witness hush money and
Speaker 3: make her sign an NDA to stop her giving evidence
Speaker 3: at an appeal trial.
Speaker 1: These are all very important points, but I do make
Speaker 1: the point that there's no right to reopen this hearing
Speaker 1: this matter in the High Court. Only ten percent of
Speaker 1: special leave applications get approval from the High Court for
Speaker 1: a full hearing in the court, and even then you've
Speaker 1: then got to run the gauntlet of the seven High
Speaker 1: Court judges, so it's a long shot. I think about
Speaker 1: whether he gets special leave and then whether he wins
Speaker 1: in the High Court, and even if he wins, he
Speaker 1: goes back and gets a new trial, gets new trial.
Speaker 3: I mean it's a long shot, but Ben Robert Smith
Speaker 3: obviously feels so aggrieved for what he sees as injustice
Speaker 3: that he's trying to have it heard in the High Court.
Speaker 1: Yes, look, I sympathize with him. I think his argument
Speaker 1: on the face of things, if it's verified, and in
Speaker 1: mind we haven't heard the nine side of things yet.
Speaker 1: This special application process does require the other side to
Speaker 1: put their case, which we haven't heard yet. But on
Speaker 1: the face of things, if his assertions are correct and
Speaker 1: evidence has been concealed in the best of all possible worlds,
Speaker 1: that should be explored, just to clear the air on
Speaker 1: this matter.
Speaker 3: And you think this is someone who was a Victoria
Speaker 3: Cross recipient, he was Australia's greatest war hero.
Speaker 4: He should be given a fair trial. He deserves that
Speaker 4: at the very least, and he's claiming he hasn't had that.
Speaker 1: Look, I would agree, but I make this point. I
Speaker 1: think defamation proceedings are the wrong forum. This is a
Speaker 1: very serious matter. He's been found on the civil standard
Speaker 1: of proof to be a war criminal that should never
Speaker 1: have gone before a civil court. It should be reserved
Speaker 1: for the most serious forms of criminal justice, not the
Speaker 1: civil justice.
Speaker 4: The media has reported on it. So are you saying
Speaker 4: the media shouldn't be airing these allegations.
Speaker 1: Well, I think if in retrospect, if I were Ben
Speaker 1: Robert Smith, he would have been better advised to sit
Speaker 1: on his hands and wait to see if the criminal
Speaker 1: justice system wanted to do anything about this.
Speaker 4: And then as it is.
Speaker 1: As it is, he's had the disadvantage of a lower
Speaker 1: standard approof none of the procedural checks and protections that
Speaker 1: you get in criminal justice. The playing field, if you like,
Speaker 1: has been tilted in a way that would not work
Speaker 1: in his favor, whereas if it was a criminal trial,
Speaker 1: it would be a fairer procedure.
Speaker 3: If you like, beyond reasonable doubt, I suppose, Chris Merritt,
Speaker 3: thank you so much for your tie. Quite okay, Right,
Speaker 3: still to come, we'll get the latest on the late
Speaker 3: night meeting unfolding into whether the Liberal Party should loan
Speaker 3: or will loan John Pizzuto one point five million dollars
Speaker 3: and save his political career. Plus y Penny one can't
Speaker 3: seem to bring herself to endorse Israel's fight against a
Speaker 3: nuclear Iran.
Speaker 4: Dave Sharma joins me.
Speaker 3: Next, Welcome back, and let's bring in now Liberal senator
Speaker 3: and former Australian Ambassador to Israel, Dave Sharma. Dave, great
Speaker 3: to see you, and we've actually got some quite big
Speaker 3: breaking news. Israel's Defense Minister Israel Katz has just visited
Speaker 3: the bomb hospital site and he said that one of
Speaker 3: Israel's war goals now is to target the Supreme Leader Kamani.
Speaker 3: He's just said this in the past few minutes. He's
Speaker 3: described him as the modern Hitler. He said he cannot
Speaker 3: continue to exist, and he says that under Israel's war goals,
Speaker 3: without question, the man should not.
Speaker 4: Continue to exist.
Speaker 3: He's comparing him or he says he's a modern Hitler. So,
Speaker 3: Dave Sharma, that's extremely significant because the United States President
Speaker 3: had said that they weren't come after Kamane for the moment.
Speaker 3: But now we've got Israel's defense minister saying he's the
Speaker 3: modern Hitler. It's in line with Israel's warld goals. They
Speaker 3: are going to target him. What's your response, what do
Speaker 3: you think about this?
Speaker 13: Look, obviously, Israel's very upset at Soroka Hospital being hit
Speaker 13: down in Ursheva. I know the hospital, I've been there,
Speaker 13: and the government's very angry. I'd wait to see a
Speaker 13: statement from Prime Minister netin Yahoo about this, thoughdriful reaching
Speaker 13: any conclusions, because I think look, today, Israel's goals have
Speaker 13: been to dismantle, degrade, destroy Iran's nuclear facilities, it's ballistic
Speaker 13: missile program, and discourage it from continuing to support for
Speaker 13: armed terrorist groups. And I think those there are all
Speaker 13: legitimate goals. I think if Israel gets in the business
Speaker 13: of actively seeking regime change, so to speak, that's a
Speaker 13: significant shifting goals and it might not enjoy the same
Speaker 13: level of support across the world. Or indeed, often if
Speaker 13: foreign adversary comes and suggests regime change in your country,
Speaker 13: it's often a way to rally the local public there
Speaker 13: around the existing leadership.
Speaker 3: We're almost a week into the war and Israel has been,
Speaker 3: of course incredibly successful, an extraordinary operation, although as we've
Speaker 3: just seen, iron is still firing missiles that are actually
Speaker 3: hitting hospital the most extreme example.
Speaker 4: So how much does Israel need American help here?
Speaker 13: Well, look, I think America is providing help in tracking
Speaker 13: and shooting down incoming ballistic missiles, drones and other offensive
Speaker 13: worponry that Iran is firing at Israel. Look, Israel has
Speaker 13: no doubt had a tragic loss of life, and many
Speaker 13: facilities have been damaged. But I would say my assessment
Speaker 13: of my understanding of people on the ground is the
Speaker 13: Iranian response has been less than expected or less than
Speaker 13: has been feed in large part because Israel got in
Speaker 13: early and destroyed a number of the ballistic missiles, launch sites.
Speaker 6: And launch vehicles as well.
Speaker 13: And I think that's meant that Araan's capacity respond has
Speaker 13: been much more limited than might have been expected.
Speaker 3: And do you have a view on whether US President
Speaker 3: Donald Trump will make the final call to use the
Speaker 3: B two bummers to destroy the Photo nuclear site.
Speaker 13: Look, I think, as he said today, he may do it,
Speaker 13: he may not do it.
Speaker 2: No one knows the answer to that question.
Speaker 13: Very true statement, but clearly the United States is putting
Speaker 13: in place the assets to do that should wish. I mean,
Speaker 13: there's another US aircraft carrying a battlegroup that's on its
Speaker 13: way to the Middle East and will arrather the next
Speaker 13: day or two that joins one that is there already
Speaker 13: they have been moving assets that are in nearby theaters,
Speaker 13: including europe air to air refuelers, strategic bombers and the like.
Speaker 13: And I think that gives them the options should he
Speaker 13: make that decision, and clearly their active discussion in Washington.
Speaker 13: There's no great secret about that, about what US assistance
Speaker 13: or involvement might look like, and what are the risks
Speaker 13: to any such operation and how would that play out?
Speaker 6: Dave.
Speaker 3: Just on the Australian response when the war broke out,
Speaker 3: Pennywog called for both sides to de escalate, as if
Speaker 3: there were some equivalents between Israel and Iran.
Speaker 4: How ludicrous is this are? These were these comments?
Speaker 13: Well, she called both sides of de escalator. She also
Speaker 13: called for a return to dialogue. I mean, Israel and
Speaker 13: Iran have not spoken in forty six years. The Islamic
Speaker 13: Republic of Iran does not recognize Israel. In fact, it's
Speaker 13: committed to Israel's destruction. There are no diplomatic relations and
Speaker 13: there has been no dialogue. There's nothing to return too.
Speaker 13: So I think that was unanchored from reality. But I'm
Speaker 13: pleased to see that she's changed her tone and a
Speaker 13: message considerably since then, I expect an Anthony Albanezi at
Speaker 13: the G seven meeting got quite a clues to you
Speaker 13: about what other world leads were doing. And it was
Speaker 13: clear that Australia's calls plaintiff calls were just out of
Speaker 13: set with where the international community is on this issue exactly.
Speaker 3: And I like the way you put that about her comments,
Speaker 3: you know, not attached to reality. As a former ambassador yourself,
Speaker 3: do you shudder at the sort of language we have
Speaker 3: heard from Pennywong and the Albanezi government and just how
Speaker 3: much of a departure it is from long term bipartisan
Speaker 3: support for israel.
Speaker 13: I do And I think it's done in Australia's standing damage.
Speaker 13: I mean, I think we've we've basically dealt ourselves into
Speaker 13: irrelevance under this government. I mean, you know, Penny Wong
Speaker 13: issues these statements from Adelaide and press conferences, but the
Speaker 13: world is not listening. No one is taking Australia's views
Speaker 13: on this issue seriously. They're getting on and dealing with it,
Speaker 13: and you know it. Look as I think most world
Speaker 13: leaders overwhelmingly recognize that Iran's decent, stabilizing actions in the region.
Speaker 13: It's pursued of nuclear weapons, it's ballistic missile program, it's
Speaker 13: support to armed terrorist groups has been a negative force
Speaker 13: throughout the world, and if Iran is not prepared to
Speaker 13: deal with that through diplomacy, then we should be glad
Speaker 13: it's being dealt with through other means.
Speaker 3: M Indeed, now, I've been contacted by so many people
Speaker 3: over this over the past week. There are hundreds of
Speaker 3: Australian citizens stranded in both Israel and Iran, and the
Speaker 3: Albanezi government has offered to get people from Israel into Jordan,
Speaker 3: but then nothing, so they'd be elderly people, new mothers,
Speaker 3: just stranded in Jordan. And in fact, the Australian embassy
Speaker 3: was closed for a few days when this first happened.
Speaker 3: Do you think this is all an acceptable response?
Speaker 13: Look, I understand that you know our embassy and the staff,
Speaker 13: they're operating under very difficult circumstances.
Speaker 2: You know, I've.
Speaker 13: Been in touch with people there just to make sure
Speaker 13: they know that you know, they've got our support. I
Speaker 13: know it's a challenging environment. I've also been in touch
Speaker 13: with a number of Australians who have been evacuated through Jordan.
Speaker 13: From what I understand, the ones I've spoken to, they've
Speaker 13: been escorted to the border crossing with Jordan, facilitated across it,
Speaker 13: escorted into a ma'am, provided accommodation in a Man.
Speaker 4: I think you know, is that by this government, that
Speaker 4: by Ajak? Is that by Ajack or by the Albanesi government.
Speaker 13: No, my understanding is that that's by the government. An
Speaker 13: individual I heard from today who's in Israel, who's going
Speaker 13: out through that route. He explained to me that this
Speaker 13: is what the plan and the process was and if
Speaker 13: that's indeed happening, and I think it should be being
Speaker 13: the Australian government should be facilitating each of those moves
Speaker 13: as much as is possible, consistent with our footprint on
Speaker 13: the ground. But I'm hesitant to be more critical than
Speaker 13: that because I know that there are is a very
Speaker 13: difficult operating environment.
Speaker 3: Well, I hope they are going to do that for
Speaker 3: more people, because I can't tell you how many people
Speaker 3: have contacted me saying they feel totally abandoned. Dave, thank
Speaker 3: you very much for your time tonight, And just a
Speaker 3: quick mention, I'll be speaking with both Dave Shama and
Speaker 3: Nova Peris, who was one of those Australians surrounded in
Speaker 3: Israel on Sunday at an event organized by the Jewish
Speaker 3: Community Appeal Communal Appeal JCA and for those interested in
Speaker 3: coming along, please contact the JCEA now after the break.
Speaker 3: Will the Victorian Liberals lend John Persudo one point five
Speaker 3: million or will they end his political career? Plus the
Speaker 3: major decision in a US Supreme Court about gender transition.
Speaker 3: That's with Caroline Marcus next. The Victorian Liberals are currently
Speaker 3: debating whether or not to bail out John Pursuito and
Speaker 3: joining mid now is Sky New senior reporter Caroline Marcus. Caroline,
Speaker 3: what's the latest on this late night meeting to decide
Speaker 3: whether to save his career or let him go bankrupt?
Speaker 14: Well, John Persuito walked into this meeting a couple of
Speaker 14: hours ago, Sharian. He said he was feeling hopeful as
Speaker 14: he was preparing to present his side of things, give
Speaker 14: his testimony to the committee of nineteen people for a
Speaker 14: few minutes, and then they'll have the next few hours
Speaker 14: to decide. It could be a long night, but we
Speaker 14: are expecting a decision tonight and that decision will be
Speaker 14: whether or not the party loans him the one point
Speaker 14: five million dollars he's after. Now he owes a total
Speaker 14: of two point three million dollars. He's already managed to
Speaker 14: raise some funds. And this is, of course, after a
Speaker 14: court found that he had to famed war Redeeming repeatedly.
Speaker 14: I mean, this all stems back to him smearing war
Speaker 14: Redeeming as a Nazi sympathizer after she simply gave a
Speaker 14: speech at an event to uphold women's biological sex base
Speaker 14: rights that happened to be gay crashed by Nazis. And
Speaker 14: again and again he's made these decisions, you know, not
Speaker 14: to settle with her, not to apologize, to let it
Speaker 14: go to court, and then finally losing the trial. Now
Speaker 14: he has to stump up this money. If he's not
Speaker 14: loaned this amount, then he will go bankrupt, and then
Speaker 14: he can't effectively sit in Parliament, so it will go
Speaker 14: his seat will go to a by election.
Speaker 4: Many would be happy to see the back of him.
Speaker 3: Now, tell us about this major decision in the US
Speaker 3: Supreme Court that will change the debate about gender transition
Speaker 3: in children.
Speaker 2: Well, the U.
Speaker 14: S Supreme Court has decided to uphold a law in
Speaker 14: Tennessee which effectively bans gender based treatments for children, So
Speaker 14: that's puberty blockers and other sort of medications to help
Speaker 14: kids transition from one sex to another. It made this
Speaker 14: decision six'.
Speaker 6: Three it was.
Speaker 14: Divided on pretty ideological, grounds but it's a big step
Speaker 14: and it kind of follows a lot of what's happening
Speaker 14: around the.
Speaker 4: WORLD i mean in THE us.
Speaker 14: Alone, obviously we've Seen trump and his administration do a
Speaker 14: number of executive orders and policies to try and keep
Speaker 14: boys and men out of women's, sport out of the,
Speaker 14: military transgender. People but this about children arguably even more.
Speaker 14: Important we had a landmark, study the Cast review in THE,
Speaker 14: uk which found there wasn't the evidence was weak for
Speaker 14: a gender affirmative. Treatment and In australia we had a
Speaker 14: family court judge just a couple of weeks ago make
Speaker 14: a rare step to identify a gender, expert the person
Speaker 14: who literally writes the gender guidelines in this, country and
Speaker 14: completely excoriate her evidence of this.
Speaker 3: Hearing, yeah, Indeed, caroline thank you so much for your.
Speaker 3: Update we'll see you tonight on The Late. Debate all, right,
Speaker 3: well thank you so much for your company this week
Speaker 3: With Annie. Luck by the time we catch up again
Speaker 3: at eight o'clock On. MONDAY us will have got. Involved
Speaker 3: here's For.
Speaker 13: Murray