1 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: From the Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey. 2 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:13,200 Speaker 1: It's Thursday March twelve, twenty twenty six. A huge blow 3 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:16,639 Speaker 1: to the Royal Commission into Anti Semitism and Social Cohesion. 4 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:21,479 Speaker 1: Respected former Spyboss Dennis Richardson has quit the Commission, where 5 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:24,279 Speaker 1: he was supposed to be investigating the role of security 6 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:29,480 Speaker 1: and police agencies. He's the forty five year old Luke 7 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 1: Skywalker to Barnaby Joyce's Anakin. Matt Canavan is the National 8 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: Party's new federal leader. At his first job is to 9 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 1: try and destroy his old boss and his new party. 10 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:45,240 Speaker 1: One Nation Today National editor Dennis Shanahan on the immense 11 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: task facing Matt Canavan. Dennis Shanahan is The Australian's National editor. Now, Dennis, 12 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 1: I've got to admit I'm kind of disappointed that the 13 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 1: National Party has dumped David Little Proud as their leader 14 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: because I was living for your regular savagings of David 15 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 1: Little Proud. You called him stupid back in January. What's 16 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:08,119 Speaker 1: David Little Proud ever done to you? 17 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 2: Well, nothing really, and I've got nothing against him personally, 18 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 2: but I think as a National Party leader, David Little 19 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,679 Speaker 2: Proud left a lot to be desired, and after his 20 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 2: resignation and his declaration that he was the greatest National 21 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:28,320 Speaker 2: Party leader since the famous John black Jack McEwan, I 22 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:29,039 Speaker 2: don't think there's. 23 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 3: Been a leader since Blackjack that's achieved what I've done. 24 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 3: But it takes its toll, and you just youve got 25 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 3: to say when it's time. So I've got a record 26 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 3: that I've put next to any leader. 27 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:45,399 Speaker 2: It sort of settled in my mind that I think 28 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 2: he had very high opinion of himself and one which 29 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 2: was probably undeserved. I mean, suggesting that his career had 30 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 2: been better and more influential than people like Doug Anthony, 31 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 2: John Anderson, Tim Fisher who introduced the gun laws. It 32 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 2: just seemed to me that David Little Proud was talking 33 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 2: up his book as he was departing as National Party leader. 34 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 3: But I'm buggaed, I'm buggreed. 35 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 2: I'll have enough. Well, good luck to him, but I 36 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 2: think that it was better if he had just set 37 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 2: back and allowed people to make judgments on his leadership 38 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 2: rather than making declarations which really didn't stand up. 39 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:32,360 Speaker 1: I just want to read you something you wrote about 40 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 1: him back in January. This is after he said that 41 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:36,919 Speaker 1: he couldn't work with the then Liberal leader Susan Lee. 42 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:39,800 Speaker 1: In the face of an onslaught, Little Prowd put a 43 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: gun to his political head and declared one more step 44 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:45,359 Speaker 1: and stupid gets it well. Stupid got it. 45 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 2: Well. Indeed, look it was part of David Little Proud's problem. 46 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 2: He's renowned for having a bad temper. He was also 47 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:00,920 Speaker 2: saying that he couldn't work with Susan Lee, and he 48 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 2: was trying to throw his weight around, but he didn't 49 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 2: have the weight to throw around. He was doing things 50 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 2: and the Prime Minister on Wednesday said in Parliament that 51 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 2: the Coalition had picked particular days, the day of National 52 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 2: Mourning for the Bondai victims, to announce various internal changes, 53 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 2: leadership challenges and coalition splits, so that just as the 54 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:30,640 Speaker 2: Prime Minister was under pressure, particularly on the Bondai massacre 55 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:34,640 Speaker 2: Royal Commission, the Coalition delivered, and more often than not 56 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 2: it was David Little Proud who delivered the distraction, the deflection, 57 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 2: and as a result, while the Coalition should have been 58 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 2: hammering the Prime Minister, it all became about them. Now. 59 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 2: One point here is that from October through to the 60 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 2: latest newspol survey, Anthony Albanese's personal satisfaction level as Prime 61 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 2: Minister hasped seven percentage points from forty seven to forty 62 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 2: That is a very big drop. And yet during that 63 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 2: period the coalition was imploding. We had two divorces, we 64 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:16,480 Speaker 2: had a leadership change and now another leadership change. And 65 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:20,840 Speaker 2: so could you imagine what the Labor Party's standing would 66 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 2: have been had the Liberals and the Nationals been able 67 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 2: to get their act together and put pressure on the 68 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:31,480 Speaker 2: Prime minister at a time of great economic challenge. So 69 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 2: my complaint and why I was saying that the arguments 70 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 2: and the threats David Little Proud were putting up were 71 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 2: self destructive, was because they were actually helping Anthony Alberanesi 72 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 2: get out of jail. 73 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 1: The new leader who the Nationals have elected is Matt Cadava, 74 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 1: and he's forty five years old, an economist. He previously 75 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 1: worked for KPMG, and then he really became a political 76 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:09,160 Speaker 1: protege of Barnaby Joyce, who of course has now left 77 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 1: the Nationals to go to one nation. Does that mean 78 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 1: now on the right we have the master and the 79 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 1: apprentice kind of battling it out for regional Australia. 80 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 2: Well, there's a certain sort of loop skywalker element involved, 81 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 2: but look, I think that Barnaby Joyce has moved on 82 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:32,719 Speaker 2: to One Nation. Matt Canavan previously said that essentially that 83 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 2: was the end of their relationship, and Matt Canavan has 84 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:42,719 Speaker 2: built a political career well beyond his time with Barnaby Joyce. 85 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 2: They were friends, they worked together, they even were bunk 86 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 2: buddies at one stage. So what's actually happening now is 87 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 2: that we are seeing Matt Canavan facing the real threat 88 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 2: to the National Party, the immediate threat to the National Party, 89 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 2: and that is the growth of One Nation. Matt Canavan's 90 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 2: job as the new leader of the National Party is 91 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 2: to immediately take on One Nation, to draw back all 92 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 2: of those Coalition supporters, largely Nationals, who have gone to 93 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 2: One Nation. In the polling, One Nation's outpolling the Coalition 94 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 2: on primary vote and not far short of Labor. So 95 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 2: one Nation and the people who are saying they're going 96 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 2: to support One Nation need to be drawn back to 97 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:39,480 Speaker 2: the Nationals. That is Matt Canavan's first and prime objective. 98 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 2: So I think that for the moment what we'll see 99 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 2: is more Canavan versus Barnaby Joyce than Canavan versus Anthony Alberaneesi. 100 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 4: We need to have more Australian farming, more Australian manufacturing, 101 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 4: more Australian jobs. We need to have more Australian everything. 102 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 4: We need to manifest a hyper of Australia here. We 103 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 4: need to go hyper Australia for our country. We need 104 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 4: more Astralian babies, we need we need more Australian humor, 105 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 4: more Australian jokes. We need more Austraian barbecues, sometimes often 106 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 4: fueled by fossil fuels. We need more Australian everything. 107 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 1: We're seeing country people go through a difficult time. The 108 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: Iran War means that there are massive diesel shortages, the 109 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 1: price of fuel is going up. There's a huge amount 110 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 1: of uncertainty. Of course, they're also dealing with the cost 111 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 1: of living pressures that everyone else is dealing with. Another 112 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 1: of the issues though, that's driving them to one nation 113 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 1: is immigration, Dennis. Right now, in Australia, we're all feeling 114 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 1: pretty good about ourselves because we've got six new Uranian refugees. 115 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: How does Matt Canavan turn the Nationals to be the 116 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 1: kind of party that country people can believe in on 117 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 1: an issue like immigration, which is really delicate and difficult 118 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 1: for the Coalition as a whole to step their way through. 119 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 2: Well, I think Matt Canavan's first press conference was very 120 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 2: indicative of where he intends to go. What he has 121 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 2: to do is appeal to one nation supporters or people 122 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 2: who say they are one nation supporters, not attack them, 123 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 2: as Angus Taylor has said. He doesn't intend to treat 124 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 2: these people with disrespect, and I think Matt Canavan's correct 125 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 2: in that the other thing he has to do is 126 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 2: not adopt one nation policies. And in his first press conference, 127 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:34,840 Speaker 2: Matt Canavan made the point about high immigration, saying it's 128 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:38,200 Speaker 2: too high, and that of course has been the clarion 129 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 2: call from One Nation. But in that Matt Canavan made 130 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 2: a point, and a very valid point. Given your point 131 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:51,560 Speaker 2: about the lionesses from Iran who have been granted asylum 132 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 2: in Australia, Matt Canavan said, look, I don't agree with 133 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 2: what Pauline Hansen has said about peace, people who shouldn't 134 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 2: be allowed into the country, or people who aren't good Australians. 135 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:10,560 Speaker 2: This was Matt Canavan saying, yes, immigration is too high, 136 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 2: which Angus Taylor was to and we will do something 137 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 2: about it because it's affecting housing and other things. But 138 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 2: we will not adopt the rhetoric of Pauline Hanson. And 139 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 2: given that those Lionesses are Muslims, it's quite an interesting 140 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 2: point for Matt Canavan to make on this day of asylum. 141 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:36,439 Speaker 2: Given to those soccer players. 142 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:44,560 Speaker 1: Coming up the poison chalice, Matt Canavan now has to 143 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:49,680 Speaker 1: drink while I've got to you. This weekend, the Australians 144 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:53,560 Speaker 1: throwing open the website and app for new readers. Everything 145 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 1: including our archive of groundbreaking journalism, features and podcasts, is 146 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: free for new visitors. A look at the Australian dot 147 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 1: com dot au March fourteen and fifteen. We'll be back 148 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 1: after the break. He's got a real test coming up 149 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: pretty shortly. On the ninth of May. There'll be a 150 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 1: by election in the seat of Parah, which is vacated 151 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 1: by Susan Lee leaving politics after she lost the Liberal leadership. 152 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:32,200 Speaker 1: The Nationals are running in that seat, Dennis, even though 153 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 1: over the years traditionally there have been lots of occasions 154 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 1: when the Liberals and Nationals don't run against each other 155 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:40,319 Speaker 1: for fear of splitting the vote. One Nation, of course 156 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 1: is also running and so are the Teals. Is the 157 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:46,079 Speaker 1: risk here that the right wing vote essentially is completely 158 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 1: split and this seat goes to the Teals. 159 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 2: The polling has been appalling for the Nationals. They are 160 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:58,080 Speaker 2: facing at this moment the humiliation of finishing not only 161 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 2: behind the Teals, One Nation and the Liberals and only 162 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 2: just above the Greens at the very bottom of the 163 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 2: Pharaoh pole. Now, I think what we have seen with 164 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:17,680 Speaker 2: Matt Canavan's ascension to the leader of the Nationals is 165 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 2: a big chance for the Nationals to demonstrate that they 166 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 2: are back in the field. They'll have to compete and 167 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 2: compete seriously, but hope that the exchange of preferences between 168 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 2: the Liberals and the Nationals will actually help both of 169 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 2: them finish ahead of One Nation. If Matt Canavan can 170 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 2: take over the campaign in Pharah, and he's demonstrated already 171 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 2: he has an ability to cut through concisely with common 172 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 2: sense and saying the sort of things that appeal to 173 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 2: people who support the One Nation, then he will lift, 174 00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 2: certainly lift the level of National support from what it 175 00:11:59,880 --> 00:12:02,320 Speaker 2: is at the moment. It may still be a big 176 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 2: challenge for him, but it was clear though, of finishing 177 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:12,080 Speaker 2: on a hiding to nothing. So anything at all that 178 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:15,319 Speaker 2: Matt Canavan can do will be seen as a bonus 179 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:19,559 Speaker 2: for the Nationals and a first step back in this 180 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:23,560 Speaker 2: fight against One Nation, because it's also a test for 181 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 2: one Nation. They are talking up their book big time 182 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:30,000 Speaker 2: in Pharah. This is where they hope to get more 183 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 2: than one MP in the lower House, Barnaby Joyce, who 184 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 2: was elected as a National So this is a big 185 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 2: test for one Nation and if Matt Canavan can just 186 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:45,319 Speaker 2: clip their wings a little, even if the Teals win 187 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 2: and the Liberals lose what is a Liberal seat, then 188 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:53,840 Speaker 2: he will have achieved a bit of a breakthrough from 189 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:57,679 Speaker 2: his early days as leader of the Nationals. It's a 190 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:03,200 Speaker 2: poison chalice that Susan Lee left Angus Taylor, It's a 191 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 2: poison chalice that David Little Proud has left Matt Canavan. 192 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 2: But they have no choice but to put it to 193 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 2: the lips and hope for the best. 194 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: You're a famously hard marker of all sides, Dennis. Do 195 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 1: you feel something more optimistic about politics with someone like 196 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 1: Matt Canavan in charge of the Nationals regardless of who 197 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 1: people support. That we might have an opposition who can 198 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 1: actually bring it to labor and be a proper opposition. 199 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 2: Now, well, this has been my hope all along, and 200 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:35,840 Speaker 2: that I was critical of Susan Lee. I've been critical 201 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:38,679 Speaker 2: of Antony Albanesi, but I was critical of Susan Lee 202 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:43,079 Speaker 2: because I felt she was in a parliamentary fashion letting 203 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:48,080 Speaker 2: down democracy and the supporters of the coalition. She was 204 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:52,200 Speaker 2: not doing her best to call Anthony Alberanesi and Jim Chalmers, 205 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 2: who really should be, you know, have their feet put 206 00:13:56,120 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 2: to the fire. There is one problem for Matt can 207 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:06,199 Speaker 2: He's in the Senate, so that Matt Canavan, unlike Angus Taylor, 208 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:11,520 Speaker 2: can't come face to face with Antony Albernasi, with Jim 209 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 2: Chalmers and Chris Bowen his great antithesis. So this is 210 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 2: a structural problem for the National Party for Matt Canavan, 211 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 2: and one which if they start to decide that they 212 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 2: might have a chance of winning the next election, will 213 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 2: have to be solved by him coming to the lower House. 214 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 2: It's unconventional but acceptable to have a leader in the Senate. 215 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 2: It's not workable to have a deputy Prime Minister, which 216 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 2: is what the National Party leader is in coalition in government. 217 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 2: This is a structural problem Matt Canavan will have to address, 218 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 2: but it's one that's well down the track and he's 219 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 2: got a few more hurdles before he gets to that point. 220 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 1: I'll say, Dennis, thank you very much, Thank you, Claire. 221 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 1: Dennis Shanahan is The Australian's National editor and his work 222 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 1: is always unmissable. Check it out at the Australian dot 223 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 1: com dot au.