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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Property Pendulum, brought to you by Domain

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Speaker 1: and Fear and Greed, the podcast that tells you which

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Speaker 1: way the property market is going to swing and how

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Speaker 1: to make the most of it. I'm Michael Thompson and

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Speaker 1: I'm joined by Alice Staltz, national Property editor at Domain,

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Speaker 1: and I've got to say one of Australia's foremost experts

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Speaker 1: on all things real estate, known to audiences around the

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Speaker 1: country for her work on nine including The Block. Hello Alice,

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Speaker 1: Hello Michael. Alice. The property market is shifting. And I

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Speaker 1: know that's a big kind of sweeping statement to open

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Speaker 1: the podcast with today, and it might only be slightly,

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Speaker 1: but there are homes on the market. There is supply,

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Speaker 1: and so that means the chance to secure your next

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Speaker 1: home could be here. It could be now, The opportunity

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Speaker 1: could be now. So we are talking today about the

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Speaker 1: lengths that people go to to win the keys to

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Speaker 1: their dream home. Is that fair to say that supply

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Speaker 1: is there is now supply? There is more property now

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Speaker 1: on the market, or at the very least a greater

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Speaker 1: opportunity to get that next place.

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Speaker 2: It is indeed correct, Michael. Look, part of what's happened

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Speaker 2: here is that over the past couple of years, buyers

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Speaker 2: just have not had enough choice when it comes to

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Speaker 2: trying to find their dream home. And the reason behind

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Speaker 2: that is because when interest rates started to rise, many

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Speaker 2: sellers or would be sellers deferred selling. And now that

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Speaker 2: we're seeing more stability in that space and the tendency

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Speaker 2: that interest rates are unlikely to rise in the future,

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Speaker 2: at this stage, we are seeing a lot more stock

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Speaker 2: on the market, so there's that confidence coming through the market.

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Speaker 2: And also the fact that because prices have actually increased

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Speaker 2: and held up despite interest rates rising so much, has

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Speaker 2: motivated and incentivized many people to actually sell. So the

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Speaker 2: good news is that for buyers there is finally more

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Speaker 2: choice in a way that we haven't seen for a

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Speaker 2: number of years.

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Speaker 1: So there's still competition, though, isn't there. And this is

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Speaker 1: what we're kind of talking about today that if there

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Speaker 1: is a property that you have had your eye, and

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Speaker 1: I don't want to use the term kind of dream home,

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Speaker 1: because it might just be your next time. It might

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Speaker 1: just be kind of what you've been looking for. It

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Speaker 1: might have the right number of bedrooms, it might be

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Speaker 1: in the right location, it might be in the right school,

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Speaker 1: catchment something like that. If there is something that you

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Speaker 1: have your eye on, you still don't want to delay

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Speaker 1: and you want to actually make sure that you're positioning

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Speaker 1: yourself best to secure that home.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, I think what we see happen is that

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Speaker 2: buying can take a long time and many people will

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Speaker 2: have to put their heart and soul into it to

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Speaker 2: find their dream or perfect home that suits their needs.

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Speaker 2: And that's as you mentioned, right school zone, location, near

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Speaker 2: enough to the train station, but not so close you're

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Speaker 2: going to hear the train at five o'clock in the morning.

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Speaker 2: And it's also obviously that right price category as well.

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Speaker 2: So there are so many elements that make that dream

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Speaker 2: or that perfect home for someone come to fruition. And

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Speaker 2: I think that's what takes long time. And it's also

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Speaker 2: why when people find what they think is a house

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Speaker 2: that ticks all the boxes, many people will fight tooth

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Speaker 2: and nail to win the keys to it.

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Speaker 1: Tell me, Alice doesn't work sending a couple of bottles

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Speaker 1: of champagne to the real estate agent or a slab

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Speaker 1: of beer, So is it actually going to get the

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Speaker 1: other keys? I've just dived straight into the basically the

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Speaker 1: bribery side. You can tell where my mind's at. Is

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Speaker 1: there a shortcut to securing the keys?

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Speaker 2: No, look, there is no shortcut, especially on a purchase

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Speaker 2: like a property. It's usually the biggest thing people will

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Speaker 2: ever buy in their whole life, so there aren't shortcuts.

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Speaker 2: There are definitely tactics one can employ to kind of

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Speaker 2: make it a more efficient process or to give you

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Speaker 2: best shot. But we do hear the things I've heard, Michael,

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Speaker 2: you would die. I've heard of, as you said, slabs

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Speaker 2: a beer, champagne, homemade bait goods being sent to agents

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Speaker 2: being sent to sellers. I've heard of people also offering

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Speaker 2: to pay the moving costs of someone selling if that

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Speaker 2: person wins the keys. On a more sort of slip

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Speaker 2: rear slope, we've heard about people trying to really incentivize

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Speaker 2: or bribe agents. Now this of course is completely banned

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Speaker 2: and should not be encouraged at all, because agents are

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Speaker 2: legally obliged to get the best price for their vendors,

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Speaker 2: and that is for the representing, and there are actually

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Speaker 2: strict guidelines around that, so they can't accept anything, and

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Speaker 2: it's just really unhelpful to even go down that path.

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Speaker 2: But I do think about people when they're trying to

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Speaker 2: appeal to sellers and tugget those heartstrings. There are many

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Speaker 2: things that people do in that space.

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Speaker 1: I just before we finish with the negative stuff, I

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Speaker 1: am blown away that people would go to such lengths.

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Speaker 1: I can't get the sending a gift, maybe some baked

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Speaker 1: goods or something like that, But bribery, that's a whole

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Speaker 1: other level.

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Speaker 2: I think it speaks to sort of perhaps some people

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Speaker 2: are living their lives. I suppose, in fact, they would

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Speaker 2: actually think that way. Having said that, I think probably

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Speaker 2: what people are trying to do is really though, trying

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Speaker 2: to ensure that the agent represents that buyer in the

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Speaker 2: best way to the seller, to help you motivate them

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Speaker 2: or swing them round a certain way. Because at the

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Speaker 2: end of the day, if you really want the keys

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Speaker 2: that much, the most obvious and simple way to do

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Speaker 2: it is to offer the highest price.

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Speaker 1: And what about as well? Alice and I really want

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Speaker 1: to get to the things that people should be doing,

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Speaker 1: but it feels like we need to kind of rule

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Speaker 1: out all the things that you shouldn't be doing first.

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Speaker 1: You kind of hear stories about people going into an

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Speaker 1: open for inspection, not even an auction kind of thing

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Speaker 1: and that will stand near other potential buyers and just

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Speaker 1: maybe spread a few rumors about the drainage problems or

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Speaker 1: kind of how dodgy the neighbors are. All those kinds

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Speaker 1: of things. These are the length that some people will

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Speaker 1: go to and it's really not nice.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, I think people try to kind of throw

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Speaker 2: other people off, I suppose, and by doing that they're

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Speaker 2: using optics and creating illusions. So we definitely, I mean

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Speaker 2: I see this actually all the time, and open for inspections.

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Speaker 2: You'll see people walking around saying, oh, these floor boards,

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Speaker 2: this absolutely needs restumping, or they'll tap on the wall

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Speaker 2: and act like an expert about it, and they'll sort

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Speaker 2: of try to create false rooms, false news. I suppose

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Speaker 2: you might set open transpection or say or you know,

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Speaker 2: I heard they've been trying to sell this house for

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Speaker 2: five years now. I've heard the neighbor's son is in

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Speaker 2: a death metal band and plays death metal music all

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Speaker 2: night in the garage. So you certainly see and hear

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Speaker 2: people saying that. You'll also see people dressing very smartly

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Speaker 2: thinking they're trying to create an illusion that I've got

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Speaker 2: more money to spend, potentially to intimidate other would be buyers.

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Speaker 2: But I think probably the most frequent one is people

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Speaker 2: pointing out property defects to put off other buyers. Now,

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Speaker 2: these defects may or may not exist, but I think

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Speaker 2: that's also why it's really important that you basically verify

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Speaker 2: anything like that with an agent, because really all it

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Speaker 2: does is also tell an agent that someone is incredibly

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Speaker 2: keen to buy the property that they're actually then spreading

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Speaker 2: false rumors to other buyers about it. So you can

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Speaker 2: very easily fact check that yourself, and I would strongly

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Speaker 2: encourage people to do that if they hear anyone will

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Speaker 2: say anything about a property or the neighbors or the

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Speaker 2: context of the s and verify that with the agent.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and we've talked about that in a previous episode

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Speaker 1: about the steps that you need to go through, the

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Speaker 1: research that you need to do, and that can even

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Speaker 1: involve just hanging around in the neighborhood yourself for a

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Speaker 1: little bit and kind of getting a feel for it,

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Speaker 1: and you can very quickly tell whether this person is

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Speaker 1: just making stuff up in order to put themselves into

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Speaker 1: a better position. I do love the idea of the

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Speaker 1: people dressing up to go to an open for inspection

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Speaker 1: to make themselves kind of appear that they have plenty

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Speaker 1: of money and that they're just going to blow everyone

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Speaker 1: else out of the water whenever they when they actually

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Speaker 1: go to auction. It feels a little bit like kind

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Speaker 1: of schmoozing at the check in desk. When you're trying

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Speaker 1: to get an upgrade for a.

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Speaker 2: Fly, a business class upgrade on your fly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, you're trying to You're wearing your best clothes,

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Speaker 1: trying to look like you belong in business class. But

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Speaker 1: in the end, the only guaranteed way to do it

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Speaker 1: is to actually either pay for it or use your points,

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Speaker 1: Which gets me in a very roundabout kind of way

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Speaker 1: to the things you should be doing in order to

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Speaker 1: secure your home, Just as the only way to actually

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Speaker 1: secure a business class upgrade is to actually put those

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Speaker 1: steps in place. What are the steps you should be

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Speaker 1: putting in place to ensure that you are best place

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Speaker 1: to secure the property that you want.

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Speaker 2: Look, the only thing that's really going to guarantee you

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Speaker 2: that success really is to make sure you the last

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Speaker 2: person had an optional with your hand up and to

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Speaker 2: make sure you've got your finances buttoned up and you

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Speaker 2: know exactly how much you can spend and how much

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Speaker 2: how far you can go if you so choose to.

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Speaker 2: I do think part of it also is having more

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Speaker 2: knowledge about the context of the perhaps the person selling,

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Speaker 2: And I don't mean doing a stakeout and hanging outside

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Speaker 2: the home twenty four to seven and looking for them

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Speaker 2: on social media and understanding why they're moving house. What

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Speaker 2: I mean is understanding things like when did this last

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Speaker 2: property transact, which you can find out all this information,

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Speaker 2: you can find it when it was last sold, or

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Speaker 2: how long the property's been held for, what school zone

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Speaker 2: it's in, is an incredibly important part of it. Recently

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Speaker 2: sold property prices in the area and also attending options

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Speaker 2: in the neighborhood to understand sort of how that market

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Speaker 2: is feeling in that area area so all those insights

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Speaker 2: are available online, and also by actually just pounding the

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Speaker 2: pavement yourself a little bit. But I think also to

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Speaker 2: get that knowledge using your head as well as your heart.

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Speaker 2: So understanding that if the house hasn't hasn't transacted for

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Speaker 2: potentially twenty or thirty years, that tells you a lot

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Speaker 2: about perhaps that person living there has probably gone through

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Speaker 2: a lot in that house is a lot of emotion

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Speaker 2: in that house as opposed to a person who might

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Speaker 2: have bought the house five years ago. It's clearly been renovated,

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Speaker 2: they might be flipping it now. You can just get

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Speaker 2: a bit more sort of nuance, I suppose about the

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Speaker 2: situation of the persons selling when you have that level

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Speaker 2: of detail, all.

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Speaker 1: Right, So it's really just about making sure that you

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Speaker 1: have all the information that you need, that you know

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Speaker 1: everything that you possibly can. You've got your finances set

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Speaker 1: up and ready to go to move quickly. You did

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Speaker 1: mention before about the idea of not maximizing the personal

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Speaker 1: connection and not exploiting it, of course, but making sure

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Speaker 1: that that if you do have an emotional connection to

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Speaker 1: a property, that you you let the owner know that.

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Speaker 1: Is that something that you can do.

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Speaker 2: Look, Michael, I think a lot of sellers are very

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Speaker 2: emotionally attached to their property, and many people who have

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Speaker 2: walked that path before know how hard it can be,

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Speaker 2: particularly to sell a family home or a home that

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Speaker 2: has great sentimentality to that person's selling. So I am

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Speaker 2: always struck and I kind of love this part of

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Speaker 2: that property about people who are so emotionally connected to

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Speaker 2: their house. It actually plays out when it does come

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Speaker 2: time to selling, and I wouldn't say often, but you

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Speaker 2: know a few times each year we hear of stories

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Speaker 2: where someone has written a really heartfelt letter to a

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Speaker 2: seller and said, Wow, this is the house of my dreams.

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Speaker 2: You know, I've got X number of children, or I've

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Speaker 2: always wanted my children to grow up in a house

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Speaker 2: with that beautiful, big oak tree in the back garden,

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Speaker 2: and this is actually one that ticks those boxes, or

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Speaker 2: you know, like this reminds me that the house from

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Speaker 2: my childhood. Or I've gone through an incredibly hard time

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Speaker 2: and marriage break up and this is the house I

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Speaker 2: need to help me land and get back into my

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Speaker 2: next chapter of life. All this to say that every

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Speaker 2: now and then those letters do work, and particularly if

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Speaker 2: you've got an emotional seller. And that's why I talk

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Speaker 2: a lot a bit about understanding why the seller is

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Speaker 2: moving on from that property. And an agent might say, well,

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Speaker 2: the couple's divorcing, for example, and you can only find

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Speaker 2: out so much, but it just gives you a bit

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Speaker 2: of an insight into where their headspace might be. But

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Speaker 2: also I think when particularly if people are downsizing, if

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Speaker 2: the seller is downsizing and they're an older couple who

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Speaker 2: have lived in that house potentially for decades and decades,

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Speaker 2: and you write that letter and you get that tone rash.

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Speaker 2: People often are swayed by that idea if someone's going

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Speaker 2: to come in and love that house and create memories

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Speaker 2: in that house, just like that seller perhaps has done.

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Speaker 1: Guaranteed, absolutely guaranteed that if I was selling and somebody

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Speaker 1: wrote me a letter like that, I would just I

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Speaker 1: have a great attachment to everything. I would just I

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Speaker 1: would feel so much better knowing that it was going

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Speaker 1: to some one who was going to love the house

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Speaker 1: as much as we did.

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Speaker 2: But Michael, what about that? Then, I hear you. I'll

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Speaker 2: raise it though, And what if that next person comes

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Speaker 2: in and offers another fifty thousand dollars?

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Speaker 1: Can they write me a nice letter as well?

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Speaker 2: All they're going to do is write your biger check.

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Speaker 1: Oh you know what I've just I've just realized that

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Speaker 1: emotional attachments have a price, and I think I think

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Speaker 1: that's a fifty k price tag that I'm willing to

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Speaker 1: sell for that. Guys, you really you really proved me

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Speaker 1: to not be the big softy that I thought I was,

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Speaker 1: and you showed me up very very quickly. It only

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Speaker 1: took about what twenty seconds to see that I am

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Speaker 1: a sellout.

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Speaker 2: But I think also if money or a letter isn't

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Speaker 2: sort of in your way of thinking, another thing you

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Speaker 2: can do is look look around for flexibility. Now, it's

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Speaker 2: because it's not always about money or that heartstring. Basically,

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Speaker 2: people might say the money is sort of neither here

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Speaker 2: nor there as long as we're in the right ballpark.

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Speaker 2: But it might be around the settlement period. Like the

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Speaker 2: seller might say I want to long settlement, like I

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Speaker 2: want a twelve month settlement because I'm building a new

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Speaker 2: house that I want to wait to be able to

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Speaker 2: move into that. And the buyer might say, oh, but

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Speaker 2: I actually, you know, want to have a three month

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Speaker 2: traditional settlement, and then they might negotiate on that because

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Speaker 2: it's like it's not about the money, but it's about

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Speaker 2: the time left in the house. Or sometimes it's about

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Speaker 2: sort of the features that come with the house, like

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Speaker 2: the fixtures and the fittings. And someone might say, if

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Speaker 2: I can leave that dining table there, that just I

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Speaker 2: never want to see again because it's where my children

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Speaker 2: used to fight it every night, and I want to

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Speaker 2: get rid of it. You know, that person wins the

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Speaker 2: keys or something, or alternately they might say there's an

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Speaker 2: exception here. I want to be able to take that

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Speaker 2: light fitting that I bought on a trip to Venice

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Speaker 2: back in nine and sixty five with me when I sell,

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Speaker 2: which of course normally that wouldn't happen, but people will

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Speaker 2: sort of negotiate other things like fixtures, fittings and settlement times, okay.

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Speaker 1: And really all of this comes about through research and

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Speaker 1: through talking to the agent and finding out what is

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Speaker 1: important to the seller and what are your potential angles

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Speaker 1: that you can use to swing it in your direction exactly.

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Speaker 2: And I think you know, if the agent knows that

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Speaker 2: you're serious and knows that you're capped by a certain

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Speaker 2: level in price, but you're incredibly motivated, they might be

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Speaker 2: more inclined to help you find ways to get a

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Speaker 2: deal done, especially if there aren't other buyers, or that

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Speaker 2: you can actually potentially pay a little bit more.

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Speaker 1: Okay. So look, I started out here. I was looking

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Speaker 1: for a shortcut, Alice. I was looking for kind of

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Speaker 1: whether it is just sending some wine, sending some baked goods,

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Speaker 1: all those kinds of things, and it's really not. It

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Speaker 1: does come back to legwork. It comes back to doing

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Speaker 1: your research. It comes back to building a good relationship

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Speaker 1: with an agent so that you can talk to them,

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Speaker 1: ask these questions, find out what matters to the seller,

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Speaker 1: what's going to be important to them, and what are

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Speaker 1: your potential avenues of negotiation in order to secure the

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Speaker 1: house because and there's no set of rules. That's the

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Speaker 1: other thing that I realize here, that every property is

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Speaker 1: going to be different, just as every seller is going

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Speaker 1: to have a different set of priorities, right completely.

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Speaker 2: And I think that letter rating skills should never be

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Speaker 2: forgotten and you never know if you can should.

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Speaker 1: Give it a dry golly. I just even when you

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Speaker 1: were saying those those examples, it tugs at the heart strings,

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Speaker 1: doesn't it. If it's like it's a place to heal,

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Speaker 1: or it's a place that you want your family to

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Speaker 1: grow up in and things like that, it's worth a

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Speaker 1: crack as long as you're honest as well, you're not

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Speaker 1: kind of it's not a work of fiction.

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Speaker 2: No, And we had a lovely story last year actually

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Speaker 2: who it was the first home buy who'd spent five

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Speaker 2: years saving for her deposit and her family had lived

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Speaker 2: in this neighboring house during COVID, and she wanted she'd

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Speaker 2: broken up out of a relationship, and she wanted a

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Speaker 2: place that was safe, that felt familiar to her and

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Speaker 2: was near her family. And this person won the keys,

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Speaker 2: and she wrote all of this to the seller and

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Speaker 2: said the security of the place. You know, she was

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Speaker 2: a young female. It's near my family. Reminds me of

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Speaker 2: that during COVID. What they were the ones that got

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Speaker 2: me through through that period. And these sellers were like

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Speaker 2: sald you know, it just touched on everything. And I

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Speaker 2: think particularly in this world we're in at the moment

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Speaker 2: where there is a lot of development taking place, A

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Speaker 2: lot of places are being knocked down for people who

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Speaker 2: have put their heart and soul and all their love

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Speaker 2: into those houses. No matter how long or how short

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Speaker 2: a period, that really is resonating with people.

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Speaker 1: Oh I think we're a pair of softyas I just

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Speaker 1: it's going to work on me for sure. But plenty

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Speaker 1: there to consider, and because there is there is supply

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Speaker 1: at the moment, and because there are properties on the

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Speaker 1: market now, this could be the time to strike. And

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Speaker 1: so there's a shopping list. There are things that you

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Speaker 1: can try in order to make that connection with the

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Speaker 1: seller to build that relationship with an agent, do your

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Speaker 1: research and hopefully you will be the person that walks

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Speaker 1: away with the keys.

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Speaker 2: And come and tell us all about it. I'll look

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Speaker 2: forward to hearing the results.

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Speaker 1: I want to hear what you put into your letter.

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Speaker 1: Thank you very much, Alice.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Michael.

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Speaker 1: That was real estate expert Alice so El's national property

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Speaker 1: editor at Domain, and I'm Michael Thompson. Make sure you're

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Speaker 1: following the podcast and we'll be back next week with

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Speaker 1: another episode of The Property Pendulum, brought to you by

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Speaker 1: Domain and Fear and Greed, the podcast that tells you

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Speaker 1: which way the property market is going to swing and

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00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:14,199
Speaker 1: how to make the most of it.