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Speaker 1: Norton just kept being herself. She just kept being the

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Speaker 1: Witch of King's Cross. A nineteen fifty six interview with

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Speaker 1: The Australasian Post, so to quote, we asked, do.

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Speaker 2: You really believe you're a witch? Amaze? She asked, are

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Speaker 2: you serious? Yes?

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Speaker 1: Do you believe you are a witch? And she answered,

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Speaker 1: of course I am. I'm a witch and that's all

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Speaker 1: there is to it.

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Speaker 3: I'm Jen Kelly from the Herald Son and this is

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Speaker 3: in Black and White, a podcast about some of Australia's

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Speaker 3: forgotten characters. Today, I'm thrilled to welcome a new guest,

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Speaker 3: Peter Coleman, to tell us a wonderfully strange story about

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Speaker 3: a fearless woman known as the Witch of King's Cross.

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Speaker 3: Her name was Rosaline Norton, and she was a Bohemian

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Speaker 3: artist who horrified Australian societ in the mid nineteen hundreds.

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Speaker 3: There were wild tales of blood sacrifices, devil worship, sex,

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Speaker 3: orgies and satanic rituals. But were they true? Pete is

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Speaker 3: here to sort the fact from the fiction for us.

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Speaker 3: He tells Rosaline's fascinating story and many others in his

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Speaker 3: new book, which is called Australia's Most Bizarre Crimes, and

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Speaker 3: he joins us. Now, welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 2: Pete, thank you so much. It's so great to be here.

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Speaker 3: Now. Your book is called Australia's Most Bizarre Crimes. When

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Speaker 3: you were looking around for ideas, you must have felt

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Speaker 3: pretty lucky when you struck upon this story, because it

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Speaker 3: certainly is bizarre.

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Speaker 1: Rosaline Norton is such a memorable and distinctive character from

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Speaker 1: Australian history.

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Speaker 2: I absolutely love her. She was a witch, she was

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Speaker 2: an artist.

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Speaker 1: She was this controversial figure living in Sydney's King's Cross

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Speaker 1: in the nineteen forties, fifties and sixties, in a very

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Speaker 1: conserved bit of time in Australian history. And she absolutely

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Speaker 1: scandalized society. And she even led to the downfall of

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Speaker 1: the career of a prominent conductor as well, so so

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Speaker 1: Eugene Goson. So it's quite a rich and varied story

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Speaker 1: of Roselene. But I love her story and I hugely

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Speaker 1: admire her, and I'm so excited to share her story

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Speaker 1: with everyone.

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Speaker 3: I can't wait to hear more. Now take us back

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Speaker 3: to the beginning of her life, because it sounds like

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Speaker 3: there were signs right from the start of her life

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Speaker 3: that Rosaline was not your average kid.

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Speaker 1: She was born in a thunderstorm at night in Dunedin

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Speaker 1: in New Zealand, on the second of October nineteen seventeen.

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Speaker 1: So she was born with some distinctive physical features, including

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Speaker 1: naturally pointed ears and two spots on her knees. So

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Speaker 1: these were the kind of physichysical characteristics that in centuries

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Speaker 1: past would have been considered witches marks, and they were

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Speaker 1: physical characteristics that Raslan was quite proud of.

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Speaker 2: Later in life, she claimed that she.

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Speaker 1: Was born a witch, but she first realized that when

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Speaker 1: she was about twelve or thirteen years old.

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Speaker 2: She claimed that nobody had to teach her how to

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Speaker 2: be a witch.

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Speaker 1: She said, in my case, it came naturally and nobody

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Speaker 1: had to teach me. She was the youngest of three

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Speaker 1: girls born to the British master mariner Albert Norton and

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Speaker 1: his New Zealand born wife. Being up so, her family

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Speaker 1: emigrated to Sydney in nineteen twenty five, for that's where

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Speaker 1: Rosalie would spend the rest of her life.

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Speaker 2: She did not enjoy her childhood overly.

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Speaker 1: To quote her, her upbringing was a generally wearisome period

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Speaker 1: of senseless shibblous, prying adults, detestable or depressing children whom

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Speaker 1: I was supposed to like, and parental repat approaches. She

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Speaker 1: apparently slept outside the house the family home in a

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Speaker 1: tent for three years and had multiple pets, including a

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Speaker 1: spider named Horatius, as well as cats, lizards, toads, dogs,

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Speaker 1: tortoises and a goat.

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Speaker 2: So she was from a very young age.

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Speaker 1: Really connected with nature and a died in the wool nonconformist.

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Speaker 1: She was expelled from her school, Chatswood Girls Grammar, at

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Speaker 1: the age of fourteen for being a quote unquote corrupting

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Speaker 1: influence when she shared what were described as depraved drawings

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Speaker 1: of vampires and wear wolves with her classmate. So she

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Speaker 1: was creating mythological images from a young age, which then

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Speaker 1: go on to do as an artist throughout the rest

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Speaker 1: of her life. She then, after leaving school, she went

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Speaker 1: on to study art at East Sydney Technical College under

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Speaker 1: the sculptor RAINA hoff Who and he really encouraged her.

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Speaker 2: And he didn't just encourage.

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Speaker 1: Her artistic pursuits, he also encouraged an interest in paganism,

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Speaker 1: which again would go on to define her life. Roselyne,

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Speaker 1: or her friends called her ROWI worked as in multiple

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Speaker 1: jobs in Sydney. She worked as a kitchen hand, a

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Speaker 1: nightclub waite staffer. She worked as a posty. She worked

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Speaker 1: as a pavement artist and a journalist. So she worked

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Speaker 1: at the Avangar publication Pertinent, which is where she met

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Speaker 1: the Sydney bohemian and poet Gavin Greenleys, who was thirteen

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Speaker 1: years younger than Rosaline. The pair shared a passion for

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Speaker 1: the coult and they became lovers. Gavin would remain her

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Speaker 1: companion until nineteen fifty five, when he was institutionalized for

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Speaker 1: scar It's aphrenia. She was also an artist model for

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Speaker 1: the famed Australian artist Norman Lindsay and he described her

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Speaker 1: quote as a grubby little girl with great skill who

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Speaker 1: will not discipline herself.

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Speaker 3: She's obviously left her family behind by this stage, but

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Speaker 3: were they quite strict and were they appalled by her behavior?

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Speaker 1: Her family was a quite conservative Church of England family,

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Speaker 1: and I think they were very I'm not sure if

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Speaker 1: they were scandalized, but I think she was very much

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Speaker 1: the black sheep of the family and I don't think

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Speaker 1: they really appreciated.

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Speaker 2: Her very much.

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Speaker 1: It's sort of difficult to know in terms of she

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Speaker 1: doesn't tend to talk about her family much in the

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Speaker 1: interviews I read so, but I'm yes, I would say

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Speaker 1: that they were quite scandalized by her behavior. She was

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Speaker 1: openly bisexual. She had relationships with men and women. I mean,

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Speaker 1: think about it. This is you know, nineteen thirties, nineteen

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Speaker 1: forties Australia. And she was also keenly interested in various

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Speaker 1: occult and mind altering practices. So she was interested in

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Speaker 1: self hypnosis, psychedelics, pagan ritual Jungian psychoanalysis, Jewish mysticism, Western occultism,

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Speaker 1: Eastern estheterism, and quote unquote sex magic.

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Speaker 2: So she was very.

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Speaker 1: Interested in the work of the controversial occultist Alistair Crowley,

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Speaker 1: who was a really important figure in twentieth century occultism

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Speaker 1: and a very controversial figure. She was very interested in

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Speaker 1: entering altered states, both for spiritual and artistic reasons. So

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Speaker 1: she would enter trance states to receive visions from the

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Speaker 1: realm of the subconscious that she would then go on

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Speaker 1: to draw or paint. There's a great quote from her

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Speaker 1: where she says, I get a life that holds infinite

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Speaker 1: possibilities and is entirely satisfying to me in all planes

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Speaker 1: of consciousness.

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Speaker 3: And when did she first come to public attention.

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Speaker 1: She first came to public attention when she had her

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Speaker 1: first art exhibition, which was at Roodent White Library at

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Speaker 1: the University of Melbourne in August nineteen forty nine. She

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Speaker 1: apparently hitchhike from Sydney to Melbourne to attend her own exhibition,

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Speaker 1: so they were assuming.

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Speaker 3: It would be really unusual for a woman to hitchhiked

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Speaker 3: from Sydney to Melbourne in that era.

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Speaker 1: It's so funny after reading about rosaline so much, that's

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Speaker 1: one of the least surprising things that she did.

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Speaker 2: So I didn't even think about that.

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Speaker 1: But no, yes, absolutely, they would be incredibly unusual for

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Speaker 1: a woman to hitchhike Sydney to Melbourne. But the thing

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Speaker 1: you'll definitely get with Restling Norton is she was fearless,

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Speaker 1: so she just did whatever she wanted to do. But

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Speaker 1: the exhibition, the reason it drew public attention, was that

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Speaker 1: she showcased a series of paintings and drawings of pagan deities, demons,

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Speaker 1: supernatural entities, often depicted in sexually suggestive poses, So the

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Speaker 1: work includes such titles as Lucifer and Witch's Sabbath. This

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Speaker 1: was all extremely controversial for Mensis era Australia, which was

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Speaker 1: quite conservative of course by today's standards, so it wasn't

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Speaker 1: really a huge surprise when the cops showed arm, seized

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Speaker 1: four of the paintings and charged Norton with obscenity.

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Speaker 2: The case was dismissed.

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Speaker 1: Strangely enough, it was dismissed up she had a chance

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Speaker 1: to explain her artworking court, so the I just found

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Speaker 1: her explanation convincing, But she remains this day the only

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Speaker 1: artist to ever have had any of her art walk

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Speaker 1: destroyed by the police.

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Speaker 3: Oh really yeah, So what was her explanation in court?

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Speaker 1: She basically explained that the images, as I understand it,

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Speaker 1: were psychological, mythological. They were not intended to be obscene.

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Speaker 1: They were intended to represent particularly things like Junian archetypes

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Speaker 1: and aspects of the human mind, the human experience, drawing

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Speaker 1: from mythology. So she basically contextualized her artwork into a

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Speaker 1: larger narrative about mythology, psychology and human experience. But she

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Speaker 1: did tell the Daily could tellograph afterwards. This figly morality

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Speaker 1: expresses a very unhealthy attitude. So and even though she

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Speaker 1: was found not guilty, the controversy called the public's eye

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Speaker 1: and they weren't about to forget the witch from King's Cross.

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Speaker 1: So in nineteen fifty one, Roslyne and Gavin moved into

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Speaker 1: a house in King's Cross. It was one seven nine

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Speaker 1: Browham Street, which became an epicenter for the Sydney bohemian scene.

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Speaker 1: So people would go to the house to practice occultism,

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Speaker 1: take lsd and sexual experiment. There was apparently a placard

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Speaker 1: on the door which said welcome to the house of ghosts, goblins,

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Speaker 1: were wolves, vampires, witches, wizards and poltergeists. Norton decorated the

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Speaker 1: walls with occult murals. And this is a house where

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Speaker 1: she set up her so called sex cold so an

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Speaker 1: altar to the Greek god Pan, So anyone unfamiliar, the

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Speaker 1: Greek god Pan is a god of nature and the

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Speaker 1: wild and shepherds and music, and he basically he has

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Speaker 1: horned legs and he sort of has the appearance of

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Speaker 1: a man goat, and a lot of people equated Pan

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Speaker 1: with the image of Satan. And but just to clarify,

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Speaker 1: even though Roslan was repeatedly accused of being a Satan worshiper.

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Speaker 1: She was not a Satan worshiper. She her primary objective

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Speaker 1: devotion was the god Pan. But then things really bleue

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Speaker 1: arm in nineteen fifty two with the release of her

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Speaker 1: book The Art of Rosley Norton, which featured her aunt

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Speaker 1: work alongside poems written by her friend and companion and

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Speaker 1: lover Gavin. They basically then they start to release you

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Speaker 1: know this. The book of art work was seen as

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Speaker 1: extremely controversial. The Sunday Sun on September nineteen fifty two

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Speaker 1: ran a piece titled they wanted to Bind It in

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Speaker 1: bat Skin? Witches Demons on rampage in weird Sydney sex book.

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Speaker 1: So the article begins, sex symbolism is portrayed, which such

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Speaker 1: Stark abandoned in a strictly limited edition of an artwork

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Speaker 1: just published in Sydney, that an all male staff of

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Speaker 1: bookbinders was engaged to bind the work. The article alleges

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Speaker 1: that the book was originally going to be bound in

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Speaker 1: bats skin, until Norton nixed the idea because she objected

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Speaker 1: to the killing of bats. The report describes a scandalous

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Speaker 1: nature of the artwork which featured grotesque quote unquote grotesque

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Speaker 1: human figures with upper halves of women and lower halves

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Speaker 1: of men. The images included demons, skulls, serpents, erotic emblems,

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Speaker 1: and religious symbols, as well as pictorial lampoons of bishops

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Speaker 1: and other churchmen, including a naked priest. The imagery used

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Speaker 1: was that associated with the medieval cult of the Witch's sabbot,

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Speaker 1: so the Sunday Sun honed in one particular image titled

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Speaker 1: black Magic. This showed a naked woman embracing a panther.

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Speaker 1: I love this story. The image scandalized Missus D. Woodward,

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Speaker 1: who was vice president of the Progressive Housewives Association, and

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Speaker 1: Missus Woodward apparently took one look at Black Magic and

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Speaker 1: asked the reporter of The Sunday Sun how much the

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Speaker 1: book costs. She was relieved when she learned that the

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Speaker 1: book cost eight guineas, which is about equivalent to modern

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Speaker 1: ossie three hundred and seventy five dollars.

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Speaker 3: Three hundred and seventy five dollars. Did you say, yeah,

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Speaker 3: it wasn't a chip. There's a lot of money.

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Speaker 1: It is a lot of money, and she is Missus

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Speaker 1: Woodward was actually really happy about that, because she responded,

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Speaker 1: Thank Heavens, price will keep it out of harm's way.

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Speaker 1: So hilarious, yes, but of course, never one to back

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Speaker 1: away from controversy, she just never was. Norton agreed to

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Speaker 1: be interviewed by The Sunday Sun and here's a direct

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Speaker 1: quay from the article. I just loved the image that

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Speaker 1: they paint in this bit. Rosalie Norton, herself sitting cross

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Speaker 1: legged on a couch in King's cross Room, sipping sherry

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Speaker 1: and smoking cigarettes, disagreed with her critics. She denied her

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Speaker 1: drawings contained any sexuality and rifled through the pages of

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Speaker 1: the book until she came to black magic. She explained

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Speaker 1: that the woman and the panther were merely two aspects

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Speaker 1: of self, the personal and the impersonal, or, for those

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Speaker 1: who preferred it, conscious and unconscious. But Norton's explanations, unlike

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Speaker 1: her cookcase, they didn't keep out of trouble this time,

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Speaker 1: so she was charged and found guilty of obscenity.

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Speaker 2: Her book was banned in New South Wales.

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Speaker 1: And could only be bored in other Australian states with

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Speaker 1: certain pages blacked out. It was also put on a

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Speaker 1: customs ban and was actually burned by customs officials in

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Speaker 1: the US.

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Speaker 3: We'll be back soon. Do you hear what happened to

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Speaker 3: Rosalie next? So stay with us. So what was the

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Speaker 3: effect of the ban, because obviously when you ban a

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Speaker 3: book that generates huge publicity, did everyone suddenly want to

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Speaker 3: get a copy of this book? Did it make it

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Speaker 3: hugely popular?

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Speaker 1: I actually don't know what happened as a consequence with

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Speaker 1: the book. I do know that she I mean, she

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Speaker 1: was fined five pounds as well, which was equivalent to

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Speaker 1: about two hundred and fifty dollars. But what it did

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Speaker 1: have the effect of doing was basically putting her at

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Speaker 1: the center of this media storm. So she was basically

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Speaker 1: at the center of her own satanic panic which and

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Speaker 1: there was much made about the occult community she was

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Speaker 1: running in King's Cross. So in the years following her

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Speaker 1: obscenity conviction, the media was a buzz with stories of

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Speaker 1: a satanic coult operating out of King's Cross. The Australasian

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Speaker 1: post around the headline are warning to Australia devil worship

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Speaker 1: here and so the report featured a photo of Norden

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Speaker 1: wearing a pagan mask, sitting beside an altar to the

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Speaker 1: god Pan just in reference to By the way, the

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Speaker 1: art of roseland Dawndon is still possible to buy copies

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Speaker 1: of it nowadays, so if you want to jump on

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Speaker 1: the internet, they're not cheap, but you can still.

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Speaker 2: Buy copies of the book. It's it's in circulation.

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Speaker 1: The Daily News published a piece titled sex worship part

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Speaker 1: of King's Cross Cult, and it claimed that hundreds of

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Speaker 1: people are clamoring to join a weird witch cult operating

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Speaker 1: at King's Cross. According to police, the cult worshiped sex

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Speaker 1: and took drugs during rituals. A reporter was told that

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Speaker 1: during rituals, a naked girl is placed before an altar

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Speaker 1: and a live rooster is slain over her as the

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Speaker 1: blood palls over the girl's body. The devotees touched the

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Speaker 1: blood and chant rights. Now, just to be clear, I'm

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Speaker 1: ninety nine point nine nine percent sure that is not true.

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Speaker 1: Always denied having any blood sacrifices, and she objected to

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Speaker 1: harming animals, and I don't think any of that is.

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Speaker 2: True, but that was what they reported.

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Speaker 1: When interviewed, she Norton didn't reveal any of the group's practices,

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Speaker 1: but told the Daily News that quote, so many people

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Speaker 1: are trying to join the cult.

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Speaker 2: We've had to fight them off.

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Speaker 1: And she admitted that the group took drugs and herbs

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Speaker 1: of stimulants, but claimed the substances were legal. So in

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Speaker 1: nineteen fifty five, Norton's flat was raided by police and

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Speaker 1: she was charged with committing an unnatural sexual act.

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Speaker 2: The evidence was a.

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Speaker 1: Series of photograms showing Gavin Greenley's dressed in ritual apparel

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Speaker 1: spanking Norton on the bottom.

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Speaker 3: But apparently ritual apparel.

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Speaker 1: Well, they would dress up in ritual costumes like robes

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Speaker 1: and masks to perform their pagan rituals, and so however,

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Speaker 1: I should clarify these photos were apparently joke photos that

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Speaker 1: were taken at Norton's birthday party, so they weren't.

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Speaker 2: Actually part of any real ritual.

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Speaker 1: Apparently, in court, Norton wore a red skirt and leopard

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Speaker 1: skin shoes. Norton and Gavin were ultimately quitted again, but

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Speaker 1: the police which han't kept going and it also extended

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Speaker 1: to fans of Norton's art work work. So the proprietor

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Speaker 1: of a King's Cost restaurant was successfully prosecuted just for

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Speaker 1: publicly displaying her paintings.

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Speaker 3: Oh that's interesting. Yeah, So was her artwork displayed anywhere else?

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Speaker 3: I mean we heard about the exhibition in Melbourne. Was

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Speaker 3: she able to have other exhibitions or were there other

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Speaker 3: places where her artwork was displayed?

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Speaker 1: To my knowledge, she didn't have many other exhibitions. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it was very difficult for her to exhibit her artwork,

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Speaker 1: particularly obviously after the book ban.

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Speaker 2: As well.

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Speaker 1: Her artwork was brought and displayed by private individuals and

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Speaker 1: apparently in some businesses, but again it was risky business

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Speaker 1: associating yourself with Rosalie Norton because her artwork was just

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Speaker 1: considered so controversial. And then in nineteen fifty six, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't stop. She was also embroiled in a scandal surrounding

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Speaker 1: so Eugene Gusens, who was the director of the New

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Speaker 1: South Wales State Conservatorium and chief conductor of the ABC's

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Speaker 1: Sydney Symphony Orchestra. Gousons became involved in Orton's sex colt

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Speaker 1: in the early nineteen fifties after reading the art of

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Speaker 1: Roslyn Norton. So obviously it was circulating in some reasonably

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Speaker 1: prestigious circles. The police learned of Guson's participation in the

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Speaker 1: cult when they came into possessions of letters he had

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Speaker 1: sent Norton. Now he had asked Roselyn to destroy the letters.

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Speaker 1: They were passionate love letters between the two, but she

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Speaker 1: had hidden them behind her so far rather than destroy them,

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Speaker 1: and then they were later stolen from her flat by

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Speaker 1: a tabloid journalists. So on the ninth of March nine

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Speaker 1: fifty six, Guson's was detained by customs official at Sydney

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Speaker 1: Airport and they discovered in his luggage a corner cope

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Speaker 1: of pornographic material including approximately one thousand illicit photographs, as

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Speaker 1: well as books, prints and a spool of film. So

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Speaker 1: then we have on the eleventh of March nine fifty

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Speaker 1: six the Sunday Telegraph for an article titled big Names

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Speaker 1: in Devil rights probe, and it reported the following police

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Speaker 1: investigations have disclosed that black masses and other devil worship

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Speaker 1: ceremonies have taken place in luxurious homes on the North Shore.

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Speaker 1: A banker, a lawyer, one or two radio artists are

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Speaker 1: said to be among those involved. Police disclosures following an

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Speaker 1: intensive Sydney wide check on practicing of Satanic rights. The

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Speaker 1: extent of devil worship in Sydney amaze police. They're expected

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Speaker 1: to make shock disclosures soon. So Gooson's played guilty to

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Speaker 1: possession of pornography and was fined one hundred pounds, which

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Speaker 1: is equivalent to modern four thousands. The media absolutely had

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Speaker 1: a field day with his relationship with Norton, and the

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Speaker 1: celebrated conductor lost his positions and returned to England in disgrace.

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Speaker 1: He never recovered from the scandal and passed away in

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Speaker 1: June nineteen sixty two. Meanwhile, Norton just kept being herself.

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Speaker 1: She just kept being the Witch of King's Cross. A

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Speaker 1: nineteen fifty six interview with The Australasian Post showed that

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Speaker 1: all the controversy had failed to dampen her spirit in

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Speaker 1: any way whatsoever. So to quote, we asked, do you

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Speaker 1: really believe you're a witch?

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Speaker 2: Amaze? She asked, are you serious? Yes?

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Speaker 1: Do you believe you are a witch? And she answered,

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Speaker 1: of course I am. I'm a witch and that's all

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Speaker 1: there is to it. It's worth noting, at the time

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Speaker 1: of the interview was actually illegal to practice witchcraft in

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Speaker 1: New South Wales, and the law banning witchcraft wasn't repealed

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Speaker 1: until nine teen seventy one. Another fabulous quote from Rosalie

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Speaker 1: was I have been described as eccentric, decadent, exhibitionist, crank, genius,

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Speaker 1: witch freak and so on, both in public utterances and

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Speaker 1: in private conversations. Yes, I am all of these things

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Speaker 1: and glad of it. She also clarified that she'd never

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Speaker 1: attended any ceremonies with blood sacrifices like I mentioned earlier,

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Speaker 1: and she'd never drunk bats blood eater, which is good

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Speaker 1: to know. The media attention sort of started to die

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Speaker 1: off in the nineteen sixties, and she continued to make

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Speaker 1: money by selling her paintings, and she'd also cuss spells

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Speaker 1: for people, so that was a source of income for her.

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Speaker 2: Ah.

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Speaker 3: So did she have a shop front in King's Cross?

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Speaker 1: No, I don't believe so, not so the best of

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Speaker 1: my knowledge, she I think it just ran out of

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Speaker 1: her home so people would come to her. So she

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean. She was so well known

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Speaker 1: and infamous at this point that people would just just

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Speaker 1: co to her. But then in the nineteen seventies she

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Speaker 1: retreated from public life and by and lunch became a recluse.

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Speaker 1: So she passed away from colon cancer on the fifth

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Speaker 1: of December nineteen seventy nine at the Sacred Heart Hospital

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Speaker 1: for the Dying, which was its Innea St. Vincent Hospital,

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Speaker 1: and she died surrounded by nuns, which is quite an

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Speaker 1: odd end for Island Norton, but it is. But I mean,

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Speaker 1: at the very end, and this is what I just

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Speaker 1: love about her. She just maintained her dedication to living

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Speaker 1: her life on her own terms. So her final words were,

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Speaker 1: I came into the world bravely, I'll go out bravely.

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Speaker 3: That's a great quote. She's quite a striking figure to

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Speaker 3: look at. And we'll pop some photos of her with

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Speaker 3: the story that will accompany this podcast so on the

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Speaker 3: hairld Sun website. But if you could just describe what

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Speaker 3: she looks at and the kind of clothes that she

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Speaker 3: wore would be amazing.

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Speaker 1: Yes, So she was a very very striking looking woman.

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Speaker 1: As I mentioned, she had sort of naturally pointed ears.

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Speaker 1: She had dark hair that she wore in the sort

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Speaker 1: of a quite distinctive style. She had a sort of

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Speaker 1: gap in her front tooth, and she had sort of

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Speaker 1: pixie like features. You might say she seemed to be

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Speaker 1: quite a small, slender woman, but broad huge amount of

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Speaker 1: presence with her. And again she also apparently had these

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Speaker 1: other physical features, including apparently a stretch of skin between

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Speaker 1: her arm and her side, which you know, again she

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Speaker 1: attributed to her supernatural nature as well. And in terms

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Speaker 1: of clothing, she would just wear extremely by all accounts,

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Speaker 1: very again distinctive outfits, red shoes, animal prints, a lot

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Speaker 1: of black in a lot of the photos. You know,

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00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,359
Speaker 1: some of the photos she's actually even depicted wearing a

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Speaker 1: witch's hat as well, So she really leaned in. She

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00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:24,680
Speaker 1: wasn't scared. But if you actually look at the photographs

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00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 1: that were showcased in the papers of the time, her

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00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 1: apartment was just extravagantly decorated with these these occult images

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Speaker 1: and mythological images, and you can only imagine how scandalous

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00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 1: that must have seemed at the time. You know, this

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Speaker 1: sort of conservative Mensi's era Christian culture, and you've got

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Speaker 1: this woman who's freely, unashamedly flaunting her love of witchcraft

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Speaker 1: and her love of magic and her love of entering

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Speaker 1: old states of consciousness, which she talked about a lot.

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Speaker 3: And if you look at her artwork. I'm assuming that

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Speaker 3: today it would not be controversy.

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Speaker 1: At all, not really, not by today's standards. You'd see

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Speaker 1: a lot more controversial artwork going around. And I mean,

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Speaker 1: the thing that's disappointing, I suppose, is that she was

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Speaker 1: generally considered a very talented artist and her artwork, you know,

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Speaker 1: shows a real level of skill and talent and flair.

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Speaker 1: And I mean even Sidney Nolan, who called her a

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Speaker 1: grubby little girl, he admitted that she had great skill.

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Speaker 1: She was very talented artist. And you know, it was

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Speaker 1: such a shame because there was that obsession with you know,

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Speaker 1: the content of the art being obscene or decadence or

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Speaker 1: you know, immoral, and the art was destroyed or hidden

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Speaker 1: or people were persecuted for showcasing the art and their businesses.

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Speaker 1: But she was actually a really talented artist, and it's

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Speaker 1: sort of a real shame that her artwork fell away

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00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 1: in the public eye because because of the controversy surrounding it. Fortunately,

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Speaker 1: it's really good to know there's been a real uptick

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Speaker 1: in interest in her again Raslane Norton, so she you know,

434
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 1: there's even been a documentary that you can watch on

435
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 1: Amazon Prime called The Witch of King's Cross, which goes

436
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 1: into the story of her life. And so it's really

437
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 1: nice to know that. You know, there's gradually a resurgence

438
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 1: of interest in her.

439
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 3: And are there many of her artworks around today in

440
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 3: private collections or in galleries?

441
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, so her artwork can be found around the place. Again,

442
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 1: it's not hugely prevalent, but yes, it is around. It

443
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 1: is in private collections, it is in galleries. It's also

444
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 1: available online, you know, to buy. And it's not actually,

445
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 1: I mean, as far as artwork goes as not overly expensive.

446
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 1: Self could own a piece of her artwork if you

447
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 1: want it. So, yes, her artwork is still around and

448
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 1: it's still being appreciated. And again, you know, with the

449
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 1: uptick in interest, the rise of interest in occultism and

450
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 1: supernatural in recent years, you know, wicker has become a

451
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 1: sort of religion practiced by many Australians. Therefore, you know

452
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 1: a lot of people are very interested and drawn to

453
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 1: her artwork.

454
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 3: And how would you like Australians to remember Rosalie Norton?

455
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 1: Well, I think what I'd really like them to remember?

456
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 1: She really to me, I mean, she was born in

457
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 1: New Zealand. But I think there's something very I see

458
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 1: her as a real Australian hero because she just had

459
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 1: this again, this Alarican free spirit nature that I absolutely love.

460
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 1: Like she didn't ever back down from her controversy, She

461
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 1: never apologize for being herself. She had this real independence

462
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 1: of spirit. And you know, I think we can be

463
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 1: quite rules focused nowadays, and I think she really reminds

464
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 1: us of this real freedom and rebellious spirit that Australians

465
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 1: have always been celebrated for in the past.

466
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 3: And Pat, your new book is full of lots of

467
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 3: stories like this Australia's Most Bizarre Crimes. You've got lots

468
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 3: of other stories just like this one.

469
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely so Australia's Most Bizarre Crimes. I mean, I

470
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 1: don't necessarily focus in as much depth as I do

471
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 1: Onreslen Norton, and I really love the opportunity to talk

472
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 1: about her because she's such a distinctive figure. But absolutely,

473
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 1: my book Australia's Most Bizarre Crimes is really a celebration

474
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 1: of rebellion as well as poking fun at stupidity. Also,

475
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 1: so it's a combination of stories about different kinds of criminals,

476
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 1: but all of them did something distinctive or unusual in

477
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 1: the process of committing the crime.

478
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 2: And so I have heaps of stories I talk about.

479
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 1: And I know you've written about this in the past,

480
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 1: the Crutchy Push, so the gang of amputees the terrorized

481
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 1: North Melbourne in the late nineteenth early twentieth century. I

482
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 1: write about all kinds of different crimes. From a woman

483
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 1: stockpiling weapons to protect herself from Yowie's to train it

484
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 1: sounds fascinating.

485
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 3: Tell me more about that one.

486
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 1: So in October twenty twenty forty six or old woman

487
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 1: appeared before the Gimpi magistrates called in Queensland so Helen.

488
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 1: I won't say her last name. She pleaded guilty to

489
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 1: charges of producing marijuana and possessing illegal weapons, and on

490
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 1: a search of a home police found at knuckle dusters knives,

491
00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 1: tases and an illegal laser pointer. According to reports, they

492
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 1: also discovered thirty three marijuana plants and a glass pipe

493
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 1: used for smoking meth. Anyway, when asked about the arsenal

494
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:13,960
Speaker 1: of weapons she had stocked, she claimed that it was

495
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 1: to protect her from Yowi attacks. So, for those listeners

496
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 1: who are not familiar with Yowie's, they're basically Australia's equivalent

497
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 1: to the yeti or abominable snowman. So they're these upright

498
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 1: ape like creatures that apparently wander the country, and there's

499
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:38,959
Speaker 1: been myths about them for millennia, potentially in indigenous culture,

500
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 1: but also there were reports about them in early Australian culture.

501
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 1: The naturalist Henry James mccooney in eighteen eighty two reported

502
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 1: spotting a yowi on the coast between Bateman's Bay and Aladullah.

503
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 1: He said he wrote, I should think that if it

504
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 1: were standing perfectly upright, it would be nearly five feet high.

505
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 1: It was tailorless and covered with very long black hair.

506
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 1: Its eyes, which were small and restless, were partly hidden

507
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 1: by matted hair that covered its head. The length of

508
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 1: the foe legs or arms seemed to be strikingly out

509
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,959
Speaker 1: of proportion with the rest of its body. On the whole,

510
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 1: it was a most uncouth and repulsive looking creature, evidently

511
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 1: possessed a prodigious strength, and one which I should not

512
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,399
Speaker 1: care to come to close quarters with. So one hundred

513
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:30,839
Speaker 1: and thirty eight years after McCooey wrote that Helen was

514
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 1: also concerned about yawis.

515
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:34,719
Speaker 2: So she'd procured both.

516
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 1: A button a butterfly knife for herself and a credit

517
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 1: card knife. The magistrate asked what I consider a pretty

518
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,840
Speaker 1: reasonable question, which is what would a credit card knife

519
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 1: do against a yowie? But she argued that she needed

520
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:52,840
Speaker 1: the knife for protection when camping in the bush. The

521
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 1: magistrate pointed out that their mythical characters and that she

522
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 1: would need a more reliant ball reason for stockpiling weapons.

523
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 1: But however, he wasn't entirely unsympathetic, and she got off

524
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 1: with a fine of eight hundred dollars, which is Fortunately

525
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:12,799
Speaker 1: her weapons were removed, which is probably a good thing

526
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 1: for both her and the yaowie that she might have

527
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 1: potentially attacked.

528
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, so true. That book must have been so much

529
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 3: fun to write. I'm just a little bit envious. Well,

530
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 3: thank you, Pete. Thank you so much for sharing the story.

531
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 3: It's been a lot of fun. Thanks your time today.

532
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 2: You're so welcome. Thanks so much, Jen.

533
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening. This has been in Black and White,

534
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 3: a podcast about some of Australia's forgotten characters, written and

535
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:45,920
Speaker 3: hosted by me Jen Kelly, edited by Harry Hughes and

536
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,759
Speaker 3: produced by John ty Burton. You can find all the

537
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 3: stories and photos associated with our episodes at Heroldsun dot

538
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 3: com dot au slash ibaw. If you've enjoyed this podcast,

539
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 3: we'd love you to leave a five star rage on

540
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 3: Apple podcasts. Even better, leave a review. It's one simple

541
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:06,840
Speaker 3: way you can help us get the word out to

542
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 3: more listeners. Any comments or questions please email me at

543
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 3: in black and white at Heraldsun dot com dot au.

544
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 3: Any clarifications or updates will appear in the show notes

545
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:22,879
Speaker 3: for each episode, and to get notified when each new

546
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 3: episode comes out, make sure you subscribe to the podcast

547
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