Speaker 1: From The Australian. This is the weekend edition of The Front.
Speaker 1: I'm Claire Harvey my guest today.
Speaker 2: Writer Charlotte Ree has earned a loyal following for bearing
Speaker 2: all when it comes to heartbreak, fertility and all the
Speaker 2: beautiful complexity of being a single woman in her mid thirties.
Speaker 2: Exploring these topics in her columns published in the Weekend
Speaker 2: Australian magazine, Reid taps into the deeply personal and for
Speaker 2: a lot of women, the deeply relatable. There's a feminist
Speaker 2: bent to her writing that's familiar, celebrating ideas around choice
Speaker 2: and agency and some pretty new ideas too, like why
Speaker 2: your ex should foot the bill for egg freezing. Charlotte's
Speaker 2: here in just a moment. Charlotte Ree is an author
Speaker 2: and columns with The Weekend Australian and Charlotte, we've talked
Speaker 2: previously on the Front about your decision.
Speaker 1: To freeze your eggs, your big desire to become a mother.
Speaker 2: It's a big emotional conversation. I'll try not to make
Speaker 2: you cry. I know, I like i've probably last time
Speaker 2: you made Mekra. You've gone ahead and started the process
Speaker 2: of freezing your eggs, and I think I knew anecdotally
Speaker 2: that that was a really tough process from knowing women
Speaker 2: who've been through it, but reading your story, which is
Speaker 2: published in the Australian's Weekend magazine today, really opened my
Speaker 2: eyes to how tough it is. Tell me about what
Speaker 2: you had to do to harvest and then freeze some
Speaker 2: of your eggs.
Speaker 3: I honestly think it's the worst thing I've ever done.
Speaker 3: And one of my friends said to me, the best,
Speaker 3: You mean the best.
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's the worst, most hardest, most difficult
Speaker 1: thing I've ever done.
Speaker 3: Essentially, you are injecting hormones into your body every single
Speaker 3: day in order to fabricate your body thinking that it's
Speaker 3: over producing eggs as a woman. Each period you release
Speaker 3: one egg. This is design to make you release multiple
Speaker 3: dozens of eggs.
Speaker 2: Ideally, it's simultaneously incredibly expensive and also largely do it yourself.
Speaker 2: Like you'd think for the tens of thousands of dollars
Speaker 2: that you're paying, that someone would come around to your house.
Speaker 1: There's not a nurse in my home, exactly.
Speaker 2: I love that you describe yourself as having a sort
Speaker 2: of lineup of vials and powders in front of you,
Speaker 2: like you were running a small time drug operation.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it felt like that you really are doing
Speaker 3: something completely unnatural and something I really struggled with throughout
Speaker 3: every time I was hurting myself and injecting myself and
Speaker 3: bruising myself and putting these big needles into my body
Speaker 3: that felt, you know, way too big for me. You're
Speaker 3: kind of thinking, but why, like what is this process?
Speaker 3: And it felt so unloving I guess, like the complete
Speaker 3: opposite way to how I thought, you know, I would
Speaker 3: be having a baby. I thought it would be love
Speaker 3: and passion and instead its forms and paperwork, and you know,
Speaker 3: seven pm alarms going off to tell me I've got
Speaker 3: to do it all again.
Speaker 2: This is the mirror of science, of course, that is
Speaker 2: hopefully going to give you this longed for baby. Did
Speaker 2: it make you regret having chosen to step into this
Speaker 2: path at all?
Speaker 3: I think every day I did. And that's something my
Speaker 3: mum had to keep reminding me every day, and I
Speaker 3: am really grateful to her, but she just kept saying
Speaker 3: to me, you know, you're not being grateful and acknowledging
Speaker 3: what science is affording you, like the opportunities it's giving
Speaker 3: you it's giving you the chance to be a mum.
Speaker 3: And I think in the brain fog which definitely comes
Speaker 3: with hormones, I had forgotten and lost sight of that
Speaker 3: a bit.
Speaker 1: You went through this ordeal of the injections at home
Speaker 1: and then the retrieval in a hospital setting, and then
Speaker 1: you got the results. So how did it go?
Speaker 3: So I sort of came out in a complete haze
Speaker 3: of an atheesure and I was told I had that
Speaker 3: they'd gotten sixteen eggs, which is a really great result,
Speaker 3: and I just remember being complete shock. I think I
Speaker 3: went in just saying to myself, you just need one.
Speaker 1: All it takes is one.
Speaker 3: I kind of had seven in my head because I
Speaker 3: love that number, and then when they said sixteen, I
Speaker 3: just couldn't believe it. And I remember the nurse wrote
Speaker 3: it on my hand. I think there's a way to
Speaker 3: sort of say, like, hey, you're I was saying, can
Speaker 3: I have my phone to text my mom? She's like,
Speaker 3: you're absolutely not allowed to have your phone.
Speaker 1: Yet I was thinking, why can't I have my phone?
Speaker 3: And then my female gynecologist came out and I said
Speaker 3: to her, you're such a beautiful man, and I thought,
Speaker 3: that's why that phone cut change. But I, you know,
Speaker 3: my best friend sort of picked me up and she
Speaker 3: was waiting for me when I came out, and and
Speaker 3: I just held my hand up to her and I think,
Speaker 3: you know, I still can't believe it, and we both
Speaker 3: couldn't believe it. And then later that afternoon they call
Speaker 3: and they say, you know, you had surgery this morning,
Speaker 3: and we got sixteen eggs and twelve had made it
Speaker 3: to the freezer. But I guess it sort of came
Speaker 3: crashing down to reality when I had the follow up call.
Speaker 1: And even with twelve, because they're eggs.
Speaker 3: And they're not embryos which are fertilized with sperm, they
Speaker 3: have less likelihood of defrosting in a viable manner. And
Speaker 3: so my stats are even with twelve, I have a
Speaker 3: sixty seven percent chance of one baby, and I think
Speaker 3: it's like a twenty nine percent chance of two. So
Speaker 3: you need to sort of have thirty or forty if
Speaker 3: you want to have the sort of more comfort, I
Speaker 3: think in actually having a viable pregnancy so you.
Speaker 1: Could go through this experience all over again. How does
Speaker 1: that feel?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think, I mean I've spoken to my doctor
Speaker 3: about it, and I know I likely need to. I
Speaker 3: think at this point in time, I can't fathom doing it.
Speaker 3: It really threw everything up in the air for me.
Speaker 3: It just totally dysregulated me. I think, you know, I've
Speaker 3: worked so hard in the past six months to sort
Speaker 3: of be in control and feel like I was doing
Speaker 3: all of these right, amazing things for myself. And as
Speaker 3: my mum said, she said, yeah, but you chose to
Speaker 3: freeze your eggsit this time. You know you could have waited.
Speaker 3: But when all of the science and all of the
Speaker 3: appointments are saying you've lost, You've got no time, You've
Speaker 3: got a hurry. You're thirty five, You're going to be
Speaker 3: in first. The longer you wait, the less eggs you're
Speaker 3: going to get. What else are you going to do?
Speaker 3: But sort of go in guns blazing. But the idea
Speaker 3: of doing it again and doing it alone is really scary.
Speaker 2: I've got to admit the alone part is very significant,
Speaker 2: isn't it. Something else I learned from you is that
Speaker 2: you can't freeze an embryo unless you have this sort
Speaker 2: of partner there with you volunteering for that as well.
Speaker 3: Or it's having donor sperm from someone that has done
Speaker 3: counseling and psychology appointments to say that they approve their
Speaker 3: sperm being used. They've signed off on a form to
Speaker 3: say that they did so. The only way that you
Speaker 3: can freeze embryos is with a known person, so not
Speaker 3: just a partner, but if you had a friend that
Speaker 3: was willing to donate sperm, there's a whole process they
Speaker 3: have to go through to be basically allowed to do it,
Speaker 3: and you both have to do sort of counseling to
Speaker 3: get to that point. You cannot freeze embryos with donor
Speaker 3: sperm in Australia, which is something I learned, and also
Speaker 3: there's a sperm shortage in Australia. In there I say this.
Speaker 3: I saw this hilarious ivy of Australia out of a
Speaker 3: guy with a megaphone speaking to guys growing saying donate today,
Speaker 3: and I was thinking, God, that's one marketing campaign and
Speaker 3: one way to do it.
Speaker 2: Price I do the thing that you do best, because
Speaker 2: never has Australia needed a hand as much as it
Speaker 2: does now.
Speaker 3: But it is it's like you are already in this
Speaker 3: like limited pool of pain, and then you just get
Speaker 3: smaller and smaller and smaller. As you realize how sort
Speaker 3: of limited your options become as a woman doing it
Speaker 3: on your own.
Speaker 2: It's a very common experience for women to kind of
Speaker 2: step into feminism or discover feminism as.
Speaker 1: They get older.
Speaker 2: Yeah, has this experience kind of enhanced your understanding of
Speaker 2: what feminism is about?
Speaker 1: I feel enraged.
Speaker 3: I keep getting in the algorithm these men on their
Speaker 3: Instagram accounts, which are mainly aimed at men. In this
Speaker 3: one in particular, is this guy in California with a
Speaker 3: receding hairline who starts every video by going, I a thirty.
Speaker 1: Six year old, single income, no kids, man, and this
Speaker 1: is a day in my life. And I just think, oh,
Speaker 1: you prick.
Speaker 3: You really are marketing why men should just be unattached
Speaker 3: and avoidant. And I feel like doing these other ones,
Speaker 3: like I'm a thirty five year old woman, single income,
Speaker 3: no kids, and this is also equally how great my
Speaker 3: life is. But it's hard to see that when my
Speaker 3: ex hasn't had to do any of this. And you know,
Speaker 3: I've got friends that are having babies and are married
Speaker 3: and coupled, and it has felt so isolating, and I
Speaker 3: suppose it has made me feel more vocal and I
Speaker 3: guess wanting to speak up about these things that do
Speaker 3: feel like an injustice in some ways, like yet again
Speaker 3: women are getting this sort of raw end of the deal.
Speaker 3: But it really is like there's no sugarcoating it. If
Speaker 3: you even are in a couple, most of the man
Speaker 3: has to do is get his sperm tested by you know,
Speaker 3: ejaculating into a cup, and the female has to go
Speaker 3: through all of these blood tests. Internal just sounds and
Speaker 3: I just think of men sometimes that are just like
Speaker 3: on this even keel and we're kind of doing this
Speaker 3: the whole way along as we're navigating the bumpy roade.
Speaker 2: It's been a couple of decades now that egg freezing
Speaker 2: has been marketed to women over the age of you know,
Speaker 2: twenty seven as the ultimate insurance policy. You know, get
Speaker 2: to the other side of the egg freezing and then
Speaker 2: you can take a breath and then you'll be able
Speaker 2: to step into relationships with a bit less pressure. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you're there now.
Speaker 1: How does it feel to be completely relaxed?
Speaker 3: And on the other side, part of me is like
Speaker 3: I just want to put that behind me now and
Speaker 3: just go on with my life. I don't want to
Speaker 3: be that woman that got dumped and just desperately wants
Speaker 3: a kid, and that's going to form the rest of
Speaker 3: my interactions. I'm just having this real pivot my thinking
Speaker 3: where I'm just understanding that I've done what I can now,
Speaker 3: I've done every option available to me. Yes, the option
Speaker 3: is there to have a second round and have more,
Speaker 3: and do I want that to be the defining factor
Speaker 3: in my life and how I relate to people, And
Speaker 3: I don't. I want to be open minded, I want
Speaker 3: to be thirty five. I want to have fun again.
Speaker 3: You know, I've been feeling so sad and so serious
Speaker 3: and so unlike.
Speaker 1: Myself, and I just want to be myself again.
Speaker 2: It's the separation of love equals marriage and a baby.
Speaker 1: Yeah too. Love is one thing and a baby is
Speaker 1: another thing. Really, isn't it. That's supposed to be the freedom?
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's something that in the history of humanity
Speaker 2: we haven't had. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Really, well, no, I feel like it's the first sort
Speaker 3: of generation that you have a choice about what you
Speaker 3: do and whether you do. Become a mum and you know,
Speaker 3: I rang my mum recently and I was a bit
Speaker 3: emotional because I said to us, you know, someone just
Speaker 3: told me that they were pregnant and had to put
Speaker 3: on this brave face.
Speaker 1: And then I was in the car and my mom said,
Speaker 1: but you could be. You could be.
Speaker 3: You've got the eggs on ice. You could be having
Speaker 3: a baby, but you're choosing not to. And she's just
Speaker 3: she's taking the tough love approach.
Speaker 1: Yeah, mom is stepping up to you.
Speaker 3: Is just taking the tough love approach with me and
Speaker 3: my emotions lately. And I think I could be and
Speaker 3: I'm choosing not to be. And I suppose that's the thing.
Speaker 3: I do have options. That's the beauty of being in Australia.
Speaker 3: It's the beauty of being able to afford it, and
Speaker 3: it's the beauty of feeling like I have choices again.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and feminism is supposed to all be about choice, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3: The one thing I do mentioned in the column is
Speaker 3: that I want people to feel like they can ask
Speaker 3: for that in a breakup, they need to ask for
Speaker 3: some financial support if they need it. People talk about
Speaker 3: divorce settlements all of the time. Perhaps egg freezing should
Speaker 3: be a part of that, particularly if you're of a
Speaker 3: certain age, because I do wonder how women do afford
Speaker 3: it if they are on their own. It ends up
Speaker 3: being nearly twenty grand in the end, and that's an
Speaker 3: enormous amount of money. Even after my surgery, I got
Speaker 3: an invoice that was unexpected. That said, because I'd retrieved
Speaker 3: between eleven and twenty eggs, I got twelve that I
Speaker 3: needed to pay an additional thousand dollars And it's just like,
Speaker 3: are you kidding me? So? Because I've been so successful,
Speaker 3: now I'm going to be charged for that. So I
Speaker 3: do want people to feel empowered.
Speaker 1: When they read this.
Speaker 3: I want people to feel like they have agency, because
Speaker 3: I think a lot of people when I had written
Speaker 3: about this for the magazine previously, strangers either on Instagram
Speaker 3: or on the Australian Comments, had said how privileged I
Speaker 3: was and that I was remiss in not acknowledging that.
Speaker 3: And I think that's the word that I kept coming
Speaker 3: back to as I was doing this, because I kept thinking,
Speaker 3: there is nothing privileged about this position, and to see
Speaker 3: it that way feels like completely off.
Speaker 2: Well, I think generally women are too busy to comment,
Speaker 2: and I know that all the women I know and
Speaker 2: all your followers are wishing you all the best and
Speaker 2: whatever this turns out to be, and You're already there.
Speaker 1: You've already achieved something incredible.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think that's sort of what I have
Speaker 3: to sit back and realize is that I did it,
Speaker 3: you know, against all odds. I've sort of done this
Speaker 3: thing that felt like it was this sort of shawl
Speaker 3: that I wasn't reaching. It felt like I was kept
Speaker 3: swimming and the water was lapping, but I wasn't getting
Speaker 3: any closer.
Speaker 1: And now I'm at that shoreline. Thanks Charlotte, Thanks Claire.
Speaker 2: Charlotte Ree is a columnist for the Weekend Australian magazine.
Speaker 2: Pick up a copy of the Weekend Australian or search
Speaker 2: for The Australian's Weekend magazine Anytime. This episode of the
Speaker 2: Front was hosted by me Claire Harvey and produced by
Speaker 2: Jasper League. Our team also includes Kristin Amiot, Lee At Sammerglue,
Speaker 2: Tiffany Dimack and Joshua Burton.