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Speaker 1: From The Australian. This is the weekend edition of the front.

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Speaker 1: I'm Claire Harvey. Easter is here and for some with

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Speaker 1: it comes a commemoration of the death and resurrection of Christ,

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Speaker 1: a four day weekend, the smell of hot cross buns

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Speaker 1: and of course eggs, chocolate, ones, painted ones, ones to

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Speaker 1: be hunted in the backyard. But for best selling author

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Speaker 1: Charlotte Ree, thirty five and freshly heartbroken, the whole concept

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Speaker 1: of eggs has become complex. In the Australian's Weekend magazine,

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Speaker 1: Charlotte writes with exquisite vulnerability about her quest to become

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Speaker 1: a mother. Charlotte is here in just a moment, Charlotte,

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Speaker 1: I'm so glad we've got you into the studio. Have

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Speaker 1: been dying to have you on the show. Thanks having me.

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Speaker 1: This is Easter, Happy East. And you've written a column

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Speaker 1: which editor of the Weekend magazine, Liz Coleman, has published

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Speaker 1: in the shape of an egg, because it's all about eggs,

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Speaker 1: as is the way at Easter. What's the coumn about?

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Speaker 2: The column is about well, yeah, my favorite thing, eggs

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Speaker 2: and how at the moment I'm looking at freezing my

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Speaker 2: eggs and about to embark on that journey.

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Speaker 1: It's a difficult, often painful process to go through. Just

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Speaker 1: like so many things in women's healthcare, you are completely

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Speaker 1: stripped of your dignity. What's a been like so far? Bizarre?

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Speaker 2: I would say it's strange to be doing it alone.

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Speaker 2: I'm single, I'm thirty five, and I've written about that

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Speaker 2: in a column before. I think it's really sort of unceremonious.

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Speaker 2: It's transactional. It's you know, getting unexpected calls from unknown numbers,

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Speaker 2: quoting names of drugs that I have no idea what

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Speaker 2: they are and handing over my credit card details, and

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Speaker 2: that in and of itself is abrupt and shocking and emotional.

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Speaker 2: Let alone, as you said, sort of being stripped bear

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Speaker 2: in a gown, you know, with your legs up in

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Speaker 2: the air, meeting different people who I must say, have

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Speaker 2: been so kind.

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Speaker 1: You, of course, are on the journey to have your

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Speaker 1: own baby, but it's been a long road to hear

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Speaker 1: for you, and the decision to do this has been

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Speaker 1: a big one for you that you've been sharing with

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Speaker 1: all of us in your columns. Why have you decided

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Speaker 1: to do this now? This year, this month? Time is

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Speaker 1: precious life?

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Speaker 2: Is short and the first in four generations not to

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Speaker 2: have a teenage pregnancy. My mum was eighteen when she

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Speaker 2: had my brother, my NaN's sixteen when she had my uncle,

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Speaker 2: my great grandma fifteen when she had her first And

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Speaker 2: for me, I've always wanted to be a mum and

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Speaker 2: I don't want to lose that opportunity. You know, for women,

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Speaker 2: the clock ticks in such a different way to men,

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Speaker 2: and this whole experience is completely different from the woman.

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Speaker 1: Than it is the man.

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Speaker 2: I had a miscarriage that was all so completely different

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Speaker 2: from me than it was my partner who was able

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Speaker 2: to go swimming and running and do all of these

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Speaker 2: physical things that I wasn't. And for me, it's about

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Speaker 2: buying myself some time. I want to have the option

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Speaker 2: to have a baby. I don't want to get to

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Speaker 2: a point where it's far too late. And already, just

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Speaker 2: in a year from doing the tests on what my

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Speaker 2: egg reserves were, they haveved. And so you can see

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Speaker 2: that as you get older and incrementally your sort of

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Speaker 2: wedge of chance becomes slimmer.

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Speaker 1: I remember when I was in my early thirties seeing

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Speaker 1: ads in the newspaper which showed a clock with the

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Speaker 1: hands at five minutes to midnight. Yeah, And the text

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Speaker 1: of the ad was something like time's running out, which,

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Speaker 1: of course every thirty something woman who saw was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's a visceral reaction to that. Yeah. What

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Speaker 1: do you think about the way the industry that assists

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Speaker 1: women to have babies has created that sense of panic

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Speaker 1: and time running out? I think it's become a lot worse.

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Speaker 2: The response to my first column, in which I wrote

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Speaker 2: about being unceremoniously dumped and being childless and having not

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Speaker 2: frozen my eggs was overwhelming. There were other publications calling

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Speaker 2: my ex a fertility vampire, a term I.

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Speaker 1: Also had not heard of.

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Speaker 2: But there's just so much misinformation. A lot of the

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Speaker 2: comments were saying, you know, you should have just gone

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Speaker 2: and frozen your eggs without him, even though he told.

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Speaker 1: You not to do it. But it's thirteen thousand dollars.

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Speaker 2: It is something that you have to have drugs in

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Speaker 2: the fridge four you have to be injecting yourself.

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Speaker 1: How do you hide that from a partner? How do

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Speaker 1: you afford it on your own?

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Speaker 2: My doctor, my gynecologist, she basically said, what you should

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Speaker 2: be doing is getting pregnant now with a sperm donor,

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Speaker 2: and that in and of itself is a ridiculously massive

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Speaker 2: thing to be saying to someone. But things I'd didn't

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Speaker 2: know whether you can't freeze embryos in Australia unless you're

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Speaker 2: given sperm from someone that you know or someone that

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Speaker 2: has signed off. You cannot freeze eggs with a sperm

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Speaker 2: an embryo, sorry, with a sperm donor. There is very

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Speaker 2: little testing that is done in Australia in terms of

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Speaker 2: what the mental health history of that person is, what

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Speaker 2: the health history of that person is.

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Speaker 1: It's this total sort.

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Speaker 2: Of unknown and there are no guarantees. And that's something

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Speaker 2: that you know, my doctor is very pains to remind

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Speaker 2: me of, is that no matter what you do and

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Speaker 2: what sort of process you go through, you may get

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Speaker 2: limited eggs. Those eggs may not be viable, they may

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Speaker 2: not defrost brilliantly. So really, whilst I'm sitting here saying

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Speaker 2: I'm buying myself some time, it is hope that I'm

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Speaker 2: really giving myself, but the chances aren't fullless, it's no guarantee,

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Speaker 2: and that's scary.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a personal question that you don't have

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Speaker 1: to answer, but have you thought about just having a

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Speaker 1: baby now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I have, And to that I would say, I

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Speaker 2: don't want to do it alone. I think it's incredibly

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Speaker 2: hard to do alone. But in saying that, so many

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Speaker 2: emails I received from women in January after that first

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Speaker 2: column included emails from women that had chosen to do

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Speaker 2: it alone. And one woman in particular, her email has

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Speaker 2: stuck with me. And it was sent at two am

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Speaker 2: in the morning, and it was sent with a picture

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Speaker 2: of her little two year old.

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Speaker 1: On her chest.

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Speaker 2: And she said that when she had broken up with

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Speaker 2: her partner, she didn't want to sort of con someone

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Speaker 2: into a relationship knowing that she wanted a baby straight away,

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Speaker 2: so she didn't want to enter the dating scene with

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Speaker 2: that as a premise, and so she decided to do

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Speaker 2: it on her own. And she said, it's really hard,

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Speaker 2: but I want to show you that you can be

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Speaker 2: done and that you should do it. And I think

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Speaker 2: that gave me again hope. It's a word I keep

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Speaker 2: coming back to you.

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Speaker 1: That's one thing.

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Speaker 2: You know, as I was being dumped that my ex said,

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Speaker 2: you know, you can still be a mum, and I thought, hang.

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Speaker 1: On a sec So you think I'm going to.

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Speaker 2: Go out right now, meet someone, be sure of them,

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Speaker 2: and be sure that they can be a father to

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Speaker 2: my children within what three to six months, then hopefully

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Speaker 2: as a flute, get pregnant straight away and then have

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Speaker 2: a baby within you know, a year, a year and

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Speaker 2: a half. It just doesn't happen. And I think that

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Speaker 2: is a reality that women have to face that men don't,

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Speaker 2: whereas they can literally go out and get someone pregnant

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Speaker 2: the next day, you.

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Speaker 1: Know, yeah, at twenty or at fifty or at sixty.

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Speaker 2: And that's where I feel some anger, right, the injustice

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Speaker 2: of it all.

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Speaker 1: It's an interesting place that the sexual revolution has left us,

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Speaker 1: isn't it? The revolution in feminism and women's empowerment that

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Speaker 1: has made the prospect of a love marriage for everybody possible.

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Speaker 1: Nobody has to get married at twenty one anymore. You

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Speaker 1: don't have to get married to have sex. And that

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Speaker 1: means that we can, you know, in theory, choose the

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Speaker 1: right partner for us, spend some time finding the right person.

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Speaker 1: But then once you're into your thirties, it feels like

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Speaker 1: relationships become unbalanced. The woman, if she says she wants children,

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Speaker 1: sounds desperate, and kind of clingy and like a psycho,

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Speaker 1: and those aqualities that our society is deemed unattractive. How

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Speaker 1: do you think that it goes for men? They are

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Speaker 1: navigating this very difficult kind of landscape where they might

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Speaker 1: be very attracted to women in their thirties, but living

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Speaker 1: in a society where I don't know, maybe they've been

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Speaker 1: trained to find all of those qualities unappealing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a perception that commitment is confinement, and I

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Speaker 2: think it is about the right person and the right time.

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Speaker 2: I continually say to people it's okay that my ex

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Speaker 2: changed his mind.

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Speaker 1: He's allowed to do that.

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Speaker 2: It's the process in which it was done, and I

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Speaker 2: suppose the bread crumbing that went along with it, because

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Speaker 2: when you do give these false promises or this falsehood

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Speaker 2: that there is a future and there is a path

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Speaker 2: and there are those things, then of course we're going

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Speaker 2: to be going along that road thinking, you know, like

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Speaker 2: Hansel and Gretel, picking out those bread crumbs to finally

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Speaker 2: get to the you know, the house. It is then

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Speaker 2: maddening when you get to that point and you're thinking, well, what.

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Speaker 1: Do I do now?

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Speaker 2: And I guess, yes, with medical intervention, now and with

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Speaker 2: sheer luck and science, we can get pregnant later. But

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Speaker 2: there are also risks factored into later pregnancies. I mean,

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Speaker 2: you know, my friends are having babies. And I was

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Speaker 2: at a wedding recently and my cousin came to the

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Speaker 2: wedding and she's one week older than me, and I'd

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Speaker 2: always thought that she didn't want to have babies, and

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Speaker 2: she arrived and I just took one.

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Speaker 1: Look at her breast, which were plump.

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Speaker 2: And much bigger than they normally were, thought, oh, you're pregnant.

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Speaker 1: And she was.

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Speaker 2: And even now it makes me teary because I'm so

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Speaker 2: happy for her, but I'm not on that same journey,

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Speaker 2: and it feels like an ache and a longing.

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Speaker 1: I suppose. Yeah, it's so tough to be in your thirties,

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Speaker 1: and I think there's a special responsibility on men who

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Speaker 1: date women in their thirties to be aware of all

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Speaker 1: of this stuff and just not to be a jerk.

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Speaker 2: Well, just I think honesty and transparent conversations. And I

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Speaker 2: guess for me, it's about acknowledging that if that doesn't

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Speaker 2: happen for me, that perhaps, you know, my journey isn't

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Speaker 2: to be a mum, and to accept that I've on

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Speaker 2: a different path and I can have success in other

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Speaker 2: parts of my life and joy in other areas.

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Speaker 1: And the column certainly is one coming up more of

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Speaker 1: my conversation with Charlotte Ree. You've chosen to say the

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Speaker 1: quiet part out loud. That is your calling card. You know,

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Speaker 1: you got divorced, wrote a very moving book all about food,

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Speaker 1: and then began welcoming people into your home to cook

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Speaker 1: for them. Then started writing this column for the Weekend

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Speaker 1: Australian magazine, in which you've made vulnerability your thing. You

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Speaker 1: landed with an absolute bang. It was fabulous. That has

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Speaker 1: really made you on the dating scene, someone who is

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Speaker 1: very loud and clear now about what you want. You know,

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Speaker 1: how does that go? How is that today?

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Speaker 2: Oh? It is an interesting path to navigate. And I

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Speaker 2: have had a couple of instances recently where I have thought, oh,

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Speaker 2: my goodness, you have put yourself out there. And one

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Speaker 2: was that I had recently sort of helped an elderly

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Speaker 2: woman that had fallen and I had lunch with her

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Speaker 2: and her son and they wanted to thank me, and

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Speaker 2: they gave me a gift and when I unwrapped it,

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Speaker 2: it was the perfume that I've always worn and only

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Speaker 2: ever worn, and I went wow.

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Speaker 1: And then I.

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Speaker 2: Said, oh, you know, you know that I wear this

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Speaker 2: perfume and he said, yeah, well I read it in

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Speaker 2: this article.

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Speaker 1: That you did where you said that you wear this perfume.

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Speaker 2: Or I had dinner with a friend and it was

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Speaker 2: the first time they were coming over, and I said

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Speaker 2: to him, oh, I'll make you Bolina's and he said, no, no, no,

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Speaker 2: You're not cooking for me. I'm going to bring pizza.

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Speaker 2: And he was so adamant about me not cooking, and

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Speaker 2: I thought, oh, it's because you wrote a book about

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Speaker 2: how you would cook for men and how you don't

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Speaker 2: want to cook for men, And so I suppose it's

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Speaker 2: an alarm bell. But then in other ways it's like, no,

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Speaker 2: it's great, I've given these people this shortcut to me.

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Speaker 2: But for me, my whole sort of north star about

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Speaker 2: why I am vulnerable, about why I'm writing what I'm

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Speaker 2: writing is that if I can help one person somewhere

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Speaker 2: to feel less alone, then I've done what I needed

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Speaker 2: to do. It makes some people uncomfortable, but my God

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Speaker 2: doesn't make other people feel seen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, thank you for writing all about that. I mean,

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Speaker 1: feminism kind of arrives for you as this kind of

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Speaker 1: feeling of rage. I think sometimes through circumstance. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's not like we in our twenties, in your generation especially,

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Speaker 1: you were brought up with the girls can do anything. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, age and that they can. But then through

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Speaker 1: biology and relationships and circumstance, you go, oh, actually this

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Speaker 1: has kind of hard. Yeah, it's hard being a woman.

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Speaker 2: It is. I remember the scan that I had when

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Speaker 2: I found out I was having a miscarriage, and the

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Speaker 2: scanner grabbed my hand and said, you're not alone. And

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Speaker 2: it is those moments when you do, as a woman,

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Speaker 2: feel at your most alone. I mean, I feel like

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Speaker 2: it's only women that can possibly relate to that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think women are strong enough to bear it.

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Speaker 1: That's kind of what we have to be.

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Speaker 2: We do.

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Speaker 1: We grin and bear it.

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Speaker 2: And anyone that has sort of been through these experiences,

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Speaker 2: whether it be for egg freezing or miscarriage, you know, you.

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Speaker 1: Are part of a club. But it's a big club.

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Speaker 2: And I think the more that we do talk about it,

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Speaker 2: the more that someone will feel less alone.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think your columns are a huge part of

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Speaker 1: a change in the way we all have that conversation.

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Speaker 1: So thank you for what you're right and thanks for

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Speaker 1: being with us. Thank you so much. Charlotte Ree is

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Speaker 1: a writer for The Australian's Weekend magazine. Check out her

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Speaker 1: work anytime in the weekend edition of The Australian or

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Speaker 1: just Search Weekend Australian Magazine. This episode of The Front

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Speaker 1: was hosted by me Claire Harvey and produced by Jasper League.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us on the Front this week. Our

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Speaker 1: team also includes Kristin amiot, Leat, Tamaglue, Tiffany Dimac and

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Speaker 1: Joshua Burton.

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Speaker 2: Yes