Speaker 1: I'll get a team. It's Harps. Who else would it be?
Speaker 1: It's Bloody, It's me, s Tiffany and Cook. It's Samantha
Speaker 1: Wills and it's another episode of you Project. I'm just checking.
Speaker 1: I'm just NELLI. You know tip when you do something
Speaker 1: and you think is it Wills or Willis? But I
Speaker 1: did not have my glasses on because I'm an old
Speaker 1: I'm an old dickhead. Uh, it's Wills. It's definitely Samantha Wills.
Speaker 1: But before we get to Samantha, talk to and Cook.
Speaker 1: The life force of the show, the engine room, the brains,
Speaker 1: Samantha said. Samantha said, the brains, and I am a
Speaker 1: beauty now she said that, not even me, I tiff.
Speaker 2: It's a worry, isn't it if I'm the brains of
Speaker 2: the organization.
Speaker 1: Oh dear, you're right, You're not a dummy. You're not
Speaker 1: a dummy.
Speaker 2: You have spent the last decade getting my head punched
Speaker 2: in for fun.
Speaker 1: So well, that's well. You're probably not quite as smart
Speaker 1: as you were before you started doing boxing for a
Speaker 1: living and punching women in the face in a boxing ring.
Speaker 1: You probably should thought that through. Have you ever punched
Speaker 1: anyone Samantha in anger or in fun.
Speaker 2: Not like punch Buggy in the Returns is about as
Speaker 2: as violent as I've gotten.
Speaker 1: Yeah, have you ever done have you ever done any
Speaker 1: boxing training?
Speaker 3: You have done a bit of boxing training.
Speaker 1: Well, if you ever in Melbourne, we might have to
Speaker 1: put you in tip in the ring and we see
Speaker 1: what happens.
Speaker 3: Oh, that escalated very quickly.
Speaker 1: That did escalate very quickly. Hey, welcome to the You project.
Speaker 1: How are you?
Speaker 3: I'm good, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: On man, thanks for being had. Where do we find?
Speaker 1: Know where you are? But tell our listeners where you
Speaker 1: are right now and what that place is to you.
Speaker 2: It's i mean beautiful downtown Port mcquarie, my hometown. So
Speaker 2: I've just come back. I've been five months in Bali.
Speaker 2: I've been kind of setting around doing the nomadic digital
Speaker 2: nomad life.
Speaker 3: So back in Port McQuary for the minute.
Speaker 1: What's your favorite other than Australia, which of course is
Speaker 1: the hands down winner. Of course we know that obviously,
Speaker 1: But if you had to, if you had to live
Speaker 1: somewhere else for let's say two years, and the US
Speaker 1: is not an option, so no US, No Australia. If
Speaker 1: you had to live somewhere else and you needed to
Speaker 1: start next week, where would it be for two years?
Speaker 2: You know, I've just spent three months in Mexico City
Speaker 2: and I absolutely loved it. It was I think the
Speaker 2: word vibrant is overused when you're explaining trouble, but it
Speaker 2: was a city where.
Speaker 3: I got the word vibrant like. It was the creative
Speaker 3: scene there, the food scene. It was awesome. So Mexico
Speaker 3: City would be my reco It's funny.
Speaker 1: I would not have picked that, but you are not
Speaker 1: the first person. I wouldn't have picked it a year ago,
Speaker 1: but now I would be more inclined. But I reckon
Speaker 1: half a dozen people have told me that in the
Speaker 1: last year. Really Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I've never been.
Speaker 1: I've been to the States a bunch of times, but
Speaker 1: I've never been to Mexico. Tiff, have you been to Mexico?
Speaker 3: I have not. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I find it both intriguing and terrifying. Yeah, well, I
Speaker 1: just because until I don't know how it is. But
Speaker 1: for a very long time it had one of the
Speaker 1: highest crime rates in the world, so I don't know
Speaker 1: where that sits now. But at the same time, the
Speaker 1: only Mexican people that I've met have been beautiful and amazing.
Speaker 1: So my interactions and experiences have been all positive. So
Speaker 1: I might have to I might have to put that
Speaker 1: on my to do list at some stage. What were
Speaker 1: you doing in Bali?
Speaker 2: Just writing my next book, so we're kind of I
Speaker 2: had a place in New York for many years and
Speaker 2: then was like, let's just do a bit of a
Speaker 2: nomad trip. So I did three months in Basico City,
Speaker 2: three months in Argentina, and then have just done five
Speaker 2: months in Bali. So it's been here and everywhere.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, what's the what's the place that you went to?
Speaker 1: I don't want to throw you under the bus, but
Speaker 1: you know, just for you, wasn't somewhere that you might
Speaker 1: hurry back to.
Speaker 2: That's actually really easy, And I don't want to be
Speaker 2: mean to Argentina. But I did not like Juemos Aires.
Speaker 2: It was it felt very quiet. I thought it would
Speaker 2: be much more happening there, but I didn't. I didn't
Speaker 2: love it as much as I hoped I would love it.
Speaker 3: But the people were lovely, but I didn't love the
Speaker 3: city that much.
Speaker 1: I'm going to ask you a curly question straight up, Samantha.
Speaker 1: So my PhD is in a thing called metaperception, which
Speaker 1: is essentially your ability to understand the Samantha experience for
Speaker 1: other people for other people. So what do you think
Speaker 1: and this is not a loaded question, this is a
Speaker 1: curious question. What do you think the Samantha experiences like
Speaker 1: for others? And that's not to be confused with do
Speaker 1: you think they like you? But what do you think
Speaker 1: the Samantha experience is for you know, friends, strangers, colleagues, family.
Speaker 3: That is such an interesting question.
Speaker 2: I hope that it is, you know, I I really
Speaker 2: hope that I lift other people up to see their
Speaker 2: creative potential.
Speaker 3: I very much hope that I'm a.
Speaker 2: Reflection of not just what they're doing, but the potential
Speaker 2: of what their ideas and what their vision can can
Speaker 2: possibly be. And I think a lot of you know,
Speaker 2: I work a lot one on one with people doing
Speaker 2: brand mentoring or personal brand mentoring, and it's I just
Speaker 2: I feel like I can see in others so much
Speaker 2: goodness and possibility, and I hope I think they walk
Speaker 2: away being like, Wow, I never saw that about myself.
Speaker 3: So that's what I think the smout of experience.
Speaker 1: I hope that's yeah, yeah, perfect it's a real skill,
Speaker 1: and most people are not great that kind of trying
Speaker 1: to understand because the only person in the world, you know,
Speaker 1: same with me, and that's literally my research. But the
Speaker 1: only person in the world who sees me like me
Speaker 1: is me. And so you know, when you think about
Speaker 1: right now, there's you, me and Tiff in this moment,
Speaker 1: in this conversation, but no one's having the same experience,
Speaker 1: right of course. And so yeah, trying to And you know,
Speaker 1: you're a creative and you're a writer, and you're a coach,
Speaker 1: and like, part of how good you will be is
Speaker 1: about your capacity to understand what others want to read
Speaker 1: or what others you know, what will inspire other people,
Speaker 1: what will connect with other people? You know, what kind
Speaker 1: of book can I create that they won't want to
Speaker 1: put it down?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: So that's that's a real skill to have insight into
Speaker 1: what others need and want, you know.
Speaker 2: No, definitely, like what is your experience when you put
Speaker 2: your the cre experience?
Speaker 3: What is that?
Speaker 1: So I mean, I've got pretty good insight because I've
Speaker 1: been doing this a long time, but I know that,
Speaker 1: you know, like I've done nearly seventeen hundred of these
Speaker 1: I worked in radio for a long time, so I've
Speaker 1: heard a lot of my own my own voice. I
Speaker 1: fucking hate my voice, right right. I think I sound
Speaker 1: shit and other people go, oh, you've got a really
Speaker 1: good voice for radio or whatever, Like I sound like
Speaker 1: a fucking idiot. But I realize that's just me. But
Speaker 1: I know that I can be intimidating. I don't try
Speaker 1: to be intimidating. It's the last thing I want to be.
Speaker 1: I try to be. I mean, the problem with trying
Speaker 1: to be what you think people want is the you
Speaker 1: end up not being you, and now you're not a person.
Speaker 1: You're a persona right, So you know, my values are connection,
Speaker 1: My values are service and love and kindness, and that
Speaker 1: sounds cheesy, but it's true. So I try to be
Speaker 1: a living version of all of that. And sometimes I
Speaker 1: fuck it up because I've got a big ego and
Speaker 1: I'm a dickhead, and I'm insecure and all of those
Speaker 1: human things. But you know it's I spend my life
Speaker 1: talking on stages because I'm a professional speaker, but also
Speaker 1: talking on podcasts, and so for me, it really matters
Speaker 1: that I at the very least have an insight into
Speaker 1: the Craig experience, because if I can't understand what it's
Speaker 1: like being around me, then I really I really can't
Speaker 1: create connection or rapport, trust or respect. And so you know,
Speaker 1: whether or not it's in a writing capacity or a
Speaker 1: speaking communication paradigm, being able to understand the Samantha experience
Speaker 1: for the world is it's like an interpersonal superpower. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I didn't think we'd go there straight up, but thank
Speaker 1: you for asking me.
Speaker 3: Right we're on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, it's interesting, and I think, you know, and
Speaker 2: I guess that follow up question from that, And I
Speaker 2: asked this myself sometimes, like how do people leave you,
Speaker 2: like when they walk away from you? How how do
Speaker 2: they feel? What's what's in the fingerprints that we leave,
Speaker 2: you know, on their soul? And I guess, you know,
Speaker 2: you can't control what that is. But I think that
Speaker 2: by osmosis should come across and I hope that people
Speaker 2: leave me inspired to do their own creative journey.
Speaker 1: I guess, yeah, yeah. Do you think that it's funny
Speaker 1: because my background is in or studies in my first
Speaker 1: degree was in science, my PhDs in science, But I
Speaker 1: feel like I'm actually more of a creative than a scientist, right,
Speaker 1: you know, having written books and having just a whole
Speaker 1: bunch of shit that I won't bore you with, but
Speaker 1: I'm pretty good at creating something in my head and
Speaker 1: then turning that into a real thing in the world,
Speaker 1: a tangible thing. And that's a creative process, you know.
Speaker 1: And even science in a way as a creative process,
Speaker 1: because you've got to come up with an idea, a theory,
Speaker 1: a hypothesis, and then figure out how am I going
Speaker 1: to test that?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: So that's a that's a problem solving creative kind of
Speaker 1: a journey in itself.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: One of the most interesting elements is when science and
Speaker 2: creativity come together because science is so formulive, you know,
Speaker 2: the formula base, but then putting either your own spin
Speaker 2: on it, putting it through the language that resonates with
Speaker 2: your audience. Like, I think, there's a real beauty when
Speaker 2: science and creativity overlap.
Speaker 3: And that's really interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. So you've written, we'll get into your book.
Speaker 1: You've written a new book which I'm excited to talk
Speaker 1: to you about. And I've written I've written two books
Speaker 1: for kids and some grown up books as well. Now,
Speaker 1: just quickly, before we do a deep dive into the book.
Speaker 1: Was this your first time? I think was your first
Speaker 1: time writing a kid's book? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've written a memoir and this is my first
Speaker 3: kid's book.
Speaker 1: Okay, So tell me about what you had to learn
Speaker 1: and unlearn writing for you know, a completely different audience.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm an only child, so I didn't grow up
Speaker 2: around a lot of young kids. I don't have kids myself,
Speaker 2: so I had to learn pretty much everything.
Speaker 3: But really what I did was I went back.
Speaker 2: To what would I have wanted when I was a kid,
Speaker 2: and that was kind of my starting point. And you know,
Speaker 2: as a creative kid growing up, I really wanted, you know,
Speaker 2: and growing up in the nineties in small town Australia,
Speaker 2: there wasn't this window into the world of the internet
Speaker 2: and what was possible. So for me, I kind of saw,
Speaker 2: you know, hard working people and in my mind, smart
Speaker 2: people went on to you know, get go to university,
Speaker 2: get a degree, be lawyers, doctors, engineers, and then people
Speaker 2: like me got jobs and then did their creativity as
Speaker 2: a hobby. So I was like, you know, if I
Speaker 2: could say to my little self, no, you can go
Speaker 2: out there and be creative for your career. You can
Speaker 2: build a life base around creativity because I just didn't
Speaker 2: see that as an option growing up. So that was
Speaker 2: kind of my starting point for this book to say
Speaker 2: to kids, hey, your creativity is valuable, your ideas matter,
Speaker 2: and there is this avenue for you should you wish
Speaker 2: to if you don't feel smart at school, which I didn't.
Speaker 2: You know, the message in this book is you can't
Speaker 2: score smart without art. So that was kind of my
Speaker 2: starting point to get that message.
Speaker 1: You So tell me about that. Tell me about being
Speaker 1: at school and not feeling smart.
Speaker 3: What was that Like?
Speaker 2: I just it was a bit numbing, to be honest,
Speaker 2: Like I was like, I wasn't like, oh, I know,
Speaker 2: if I try harder, i'll get there. I just don't
Speaker 2: think my brain worked in the way that academic kids'
Speaker 2: brains work. And so when the teachers, you know, in
Speaker 2: the marks or in the class, if you're in the
Speaker 2: top ten percent of the class, it's usually based on academics.
Speaker 3: So, you know, I was.
Speaker 2: Doing really well in creativity and art and kind of
Speaker 2: all these creative subjects, but I.
Speaker 3: Just didn't feel smart.
Speaker 2: And I think as a kid, when you take that
Speaker 2: feeling into adulthood, it dresses itself up as imposter syndrome.
Speaker 3: So it kind of grows with you, it just changes.
Speaker 2: Outits And so even you know, in the outward facing
Speaker 2: by all accounts success I've had in my career today,
Speaker 2: it was still filled with imposter syndrome. And you know,
Speaker 2: it's kind of this whisper of you know, this is
Speaker 2: just a fluke, This is just borrow time you succeeding here,
Speaker 2: Like you know, people will realize you're not that smart,
Speaker 2: So it definitely masquerades.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that that imposter syndrome, self doubt, overthinking,
Speaker 1: fucking self sabotage. We swear on this show, by the way,
Speaker 1: good yeah, so feel free. I'll open their fuck door
Speaker 1: for you.
Speaker 3: I don't need to die.
Speaker 1: Yeah, good good. But that's I think that's everyone. You know.
Speaker 1: It's like I've been doing a version of this forever
Speaker 1: and I talk to you about one hundred or more
Speaker 1: audiences a year live, and I still get up there
Speaker 1: and think, yeah, this is the day you're going to
Speaker 1: fuck it up, because like you you know, it's like, Craig,
Speaker 1: you've done really well. You've been honestly, you've been pretty lucky, right,
Speaker 1: You've had some really generous audiences. You're not that good.
Speaker 1: You're not that good, and you know that I don't
Speaker 1: think that really. I mean, I guess for some people
Speaker 1: it goes away. And this is going to sound weird, Samantha,
Speaker 1: But for me, a bit of self doubt and a
Speaker 1: bit of imposter syndrome is good for me, not overwhelming,
Speaker 1: paralyzing fear. But it keeps me humble and I never
Speaker 1: really take it. It keeps me humble in that I
Speaker 1: don't take it for granted, and I don't think I'm great,
Speaker 1: and the fact that I don't think I'm great makes
Speaker 1: me work harder than if I thought I was great.
Speaker 1: You know, that's just me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's an interesting and I think if you can
Speaker 2: make imposter syndrome and fear work for you, and that's
Speaker 2: how you make it work for you. For me, I'm like,
Speaker 2: I'm not even going to exert my energy trying to
Speaker 2: overcome it.
Speaker 3: I'm just going to be like, hey, I see you,
Speaker 3: I acknowledge you.
Speaker 2: I'm just going to step to the side and do
Speaker 2: this speaking gig, do write this book, do whatever it is.
Speaker 3: I'll come back to you in a sec. And I
Speaker 3: find acknowledging it rather than trying to.
Speaker 2: Overcome it for me, just silences it for enough time
Speaker 2: for me to do the thing and be like, oh hey,
Speaker 2: old pal, well that together again.
Speaker 3: So it is a bit of a cycle. But to
Speaker 3: your point, I think.
Speaker 2: Everyone deals with it in a way that finding how
Speaker 2: it works for you.
Speaker 3: I think is the trick.
Speaker 1: Yes, And I think also what you're speaking about, I
Speaker 1: say kind of the same thing in a different way,
Speaker 1: which is I know that my self doubt, which is
Speaker 1: a fear based thing today, you'll fuck it up, You're
Speaker 1: not good enough, they won't like you. That's all fear.
Speaker 1: That's emotion, right, it's all fear. So but but I
Speaker 1: have data, I have evidence. I have a track record
Speaker 1: that said as well, Craig, you know you can do
Speaker 1: this because you've done this a lot and this company
Speaker 1: is paying you to come back, so you can't do
Speaker 1: that shit. So I think there's this paradigm, there's this place,
Speaker 1: Samantha where the self doubt and the fear and that
Speaker 1: all that bullshit can coexist with the knowledge I can
Speaker 1: actually do it, you know.
Speaker 2: So I don't know that does your self fither come from?
Speaker 3: Like do you have a degree in what you're going
Speaker 3: to talk about?
Speaker 2: Like did someone externally validate you and be like, Okay,
Speaker 2: you pass the test, here's your certificate. Because I feel
Speaker 2: like my self data that I never went to university.
Speaker 2: I'm completely self taught. So I'm like, I don't know,
Speaker 2: adult gave me the permission slip, and you know there's
Speaker 2: I have this thing room like you've got to sign
Speaker 2: your own permission slip. But I'm always like and I'm
Speaker 2: just waiting for the adult to come in. I'm like, no, no,
Speaker 2: you're the adult in the room, like you need to
Speaker 2: get this together. So, yes, that was my question. Is
Speaker 2: your self doubt based on something that someone else has
Speaker 2: validated for you?
Speaker 1: That's so clever, that's so good. I want to speak
Speaker 1: to your lack of degree in the moment because I
Speaker 1: have some advice that you may or may not want. Right, Okay,
Speaker 1: if I start coaching TIF, just tell me to shout
Speaker 1: the fuck up.
Speaker 3: Right, s me an invoice? So coaching session, no, not
Speaker 3: at all, not at all.
Speaker 1: So my self doubt probably is without trying to sound
Speaker 1: weird or deep like, it's not. It's just it's like
Speaker 1: a small voice, right, It's not this overwhelming scream and
Speaker 1: it doesn't paralyze me. But I mean, you know, at
Speaker 1: the risk of boring my audience. So I was like
Speaker 1: a pretty mediocre kid. I was morbidly obese in school
Speaker 1: and all this stuff, right, pick last for teams. Not
Speaker 1: a great academic, not a brilliant creative, not like literally
Speaker 1: not amazing at anything, like so fucking average it pretty
Speaker 1: much everything. And I think for me, because I knew
Speaker 1: that I wasn't brilliant, I'm still not still know that,
Speaker 1: still okay with that, right, But I knew that I
Speaker 1: knew that I wasn't outstanding in anything. But so that
Speaker 1: kind of lingers a bit that I think. But it's
Speaker 1: almost just like, I don't know, it's like you had
Speaker 1: something cut off when you were fourteen, off your forearm
Speaker 1: or something, and the scar is still there and the thing,
Speaker 1: the thing's not there anymore, but the scar is and
Speaker 1: you're aware of it. Right, So it's almost for me
Speaker 1: like a psychological, sociological and or emotional scar that I
Speaker 1: have a bit of an awareness of, but it doesn't
Speaker 1: fuck me over. But just quickly back to you. I
Speaker 1: was talking to a lady yesterday. Her name is I
Speaker 1: can't pronounce her surname well, but it Sarah Rushbatch. Is
Speaker 1: that her name, Tiff, you know, the Gray Area drinking lady.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yep, yeah.
Speaker 1: So I was talking to her, and I don't think
Speaker 1: she'd mind me talking about this. So she specializes this.
Speaker 1: You're going to go, what the fuck is he talking about.
Speaker 1: I'll come back to you, right. She specializes in this
Speaker 1: area called Gray Area drinking, where you know, people they're
Speaker 1: not our coolics, but they're problem drinkers. So they might
Speaker 1: not drink for four or five days, which is not
Speaker 1: typical of an alcoholic, but then they'll get devastated every
Speaker 1: weekend and then they're no good till Tuesday, but they'll
Speaker 1: only drink two days and all of that. And she
Speaker 1: started to work with companies and you know, she started
Speaker 1: to go in this space and she's like, I feel
Speaker 1: in some ways unqualified to talk about mind stuff, for
Speaker 1: brain stuff, for psychology or human behavior because i'm you know,
Speaker 1: and I said, well, here's the thing, and this is
Speaker 1: and I've said this to Tiff, because TIFF's also a
Speaker 1: corporate speaker and coaches people, and you know, I say,
Speaker 1: you're not one. You're not pretending to be an expert
Speaker 1: in human behavior and you're not claiming to be too
Speaker 1: you're not pretending you're a psychologist. Right, It's like, you
Speaker 1: don't need to be a dietitian to tell someone that
Speaker 1: McDonald's is probably not your best choice. You don't need
Speaker 1: to be a fucking genius to go, hey, Coco pops
Speaker 1: are probably not optimal nutrition for Brecky. Right. You don't
Speaker 1: need a degree, and neither do you need a degree
Speaker 1: to go, Hey, everyone, I'm Samantha. This is what I've learned,
Speaker 1: this is these are my experiences, this is my journey,
Speaker 1: this is what worked for me, this is what I've
Speaker 1: come to understand, this is what I think and believe,
Speaker 1: and these are the reasons why I'm going to share
Speaker 1: with you my philosophy, my ideas, my experiences, and then
Speaker 1: you take out of that what you think is relevant
Speaker 1: and if you want, apply it. Right.
Speaker 2: But I think that's even your voice changed in how
Speaker 2: you're saying that, Like, I think it's very different to
Speaker 2: be like, here's my experience, my lived experience, rather than
Speaker 2: here's some hard data or you know, McDonald's dad, or
Speaker 2: whatever the hard data is. And I think that's a
Speaker 2: really empowering lens to approach it with you, like, this
Speaker 2: is my experience this is my lived experience, and I
Speaker 2: want to share up with you rather than I'm an
Speaker 2: expert on this topic and let me tell you why
Speaker 2: I'm right and you're wrong.
Speaker 3: So absolutely, yes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And you know, like even the experts, it's
Speaker 1: like I would people might call me an expert in
Speaker 1: terms of exercise science because that's been my background. I'm
Speaker 1: an exercise scientist and blah blah blah, and I've done
Speaker 1: a lot in this field. But even when I prescribe
Speaker 1: someone a program, for example, it's still an educated guess.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I still don't know what the fucking outcome
Speaker 1: is going to be because everybody's body responds individually, like
Speaker 1: everyone's physiology is different, just like everybody's brain is different.
Speaker 1: Nobody's got the same mind as anyone else, you know.
Speaker 3: But in your.
Speaker 2: Case, you're like, here's the data that I have to
Speaker 2: back up what I think is going to happen. So
Speaker 2: it's I totally understand it and agree with what you're saying.
Speaker 2: And I think in any any time you're speaking, though,
Speaker 2: whether you're giving advice, whether you're just telling your story,
Speaker 2: it's a place of vulnerability and you have to arrive
Speaker 2: at with a place of vulnerability.
Speaker 3: Otherwise it's just arrogance.
Speaker 2: And I think, and to your point before, like, if
Speaker 2: you're not feeling a bit uneasy when you've been vulnerable,
Speaker 2: you're probably not doing it right.
Speaker 1: Yes, definitely, But I also think I agree with you.
Speaker 1: But when you are in front of an audience and
Speaker 1: you you kind of have this vibe of hey, everyone,
Speaker 1: by the way, I'm not a guru, just letting you know,
Speaker 1: not a guru, not an expert. I'm just going to
Speaker 1: share my journey and story. Some of you will resonate,
Speaker 1: some of you won't. That's cool, you know. And I
Speaker 1: think like the data that you have, the evidence that
Speaker 1: you have, the science in inverted commas, that you have
Speaker 1: your results, like everything that you've been doing until now
Speaker 1: in your business, with your creative journey, with your books,
Speaker 1: with your writing, with your business development, with your online
Speaker 1: with your offline. You could call all of that research.
Speaker 1: You could call that the Samantha project and equals one
Speaker 1: like you're the you know, it's you in the middle
Speaker 1: of this experiment, and so people can't argue with your
Speaker 1: own research or your own outcomes, and you're not telling
Speaker 1: people what to do.
Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean, no, definitely, And I
Speaker 2: think that's that's the realization that I think through the
Speaker 2: journey you get to you you're like, Okay, the way
Speaker 2: that I explain things, or my methodology or my you know,
Speaker 2: however I look through that lens. That's why people resonate
Speaker 2: with you. And then someone could be saying a very
Speaker 2: similar experience but explain it a different way, and that's
Speaker 2: that's how people resonate with them. So that's you know,
Speaker 2: when I say about the imposter syndrome, it's probably more
Speaker 2: beer based around you're just not good enough, not so much, you.
Speaker 3: Haven't done the time, you don't know what you're doing.
Speaker 2: So it's that continual dance with it, which to your point,
Speaker 2: I think sometimes that you know, and the retaliator in
Speaker 2: me is like, well, I'll show you imposter syndrome.
Speaker 3: So in a way I do make it work.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it comes around. So everyone, well not everyone,
Speaker 1: but a lot of people that I have on who've
Speaker 1: written a book. Actually someone who's recently published Congratulations. By
Speaker 1: the way, as we record this, it's the thirtieth of October.
Speaker 1: This will be up in the next day or two.
Speaker 1: Samantha's new book got released yesterday the twenty ninth Am
Speaker 1: I correct in saying.
Speaker 3: That that is correct. Yep.
Speaker 1: And the book is called Marigold's Magic Stars. Before we
Speaker 1: talk specifically about the book, I want to know about
Speaker 1: your writing process. Is it instinctive? Intuitive? Is it learned
Speaker 1: as have you? How do you do it? Like? What's
Speaker 1: your protocol? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean obviously very different from this kid's book
Speaker 2: versus the memoir. The memoir I found quite difficult. I
Speaker 2: think going back to, you know, the darkest, most vulnerable
Speaker 2: parts of your life, revisiting them, pulling them out and
Speaker 2: putting them on a page to be consumed, you know,
Speaker 2: within a chapter. Definitely was a longer and more arduous process.
Speaker 2: But you know, it metaphorically felt lighter with every page
Speaker 2: that I wrote to get it, to get it out
Speaker 2: and onto the page. This spook actually Marigo's Magic says.
Speaker 2: I wrote it in one of the lockdowns, and it's
Speaker 2: been that long in process to get it out here today.
Speaker 2: But it actually arrived to me almost fully formed. And
Speaker 2: I talk about creativity like this kind of bubbles that
Speaker 2: are always floating around us and just waiting. You know,
Speaker 2: Elizabeth Gilbert talks about there trying to find a human collaborator.
Speaker 2: And I just feel like Marigo kind of landed on
Speaker 2: me one day and it was a middle beginning end
Speaker 2: and I sat down at my desk. I didn't get
Speaker 2: up to you know, check the fridge, I didn't get
Speaker 2: up to p and I was like, this needs to
Speaker 2: come out as it's coming into my mind and wrote
Speaker 2: kind of the first draft in one sit down go.
Speaker 3: And felt it felt like a story that needed to
Speaker 3: be told.
Speaker 2: But it's you know, that feels like an idyllic case
Speaker 2: as a writer, because most writers, myself included, love having written.
Speaker 3: But hate writing.
Speaker 2: So it definitely felt like a unique story that downloaded
Speaker 2: to me.
Speaker 3: So it's been three years in.
Speaker 2: The making though from that point, but I'm excited to
Speaker 2: have her out there.
Speaker 1: And it's like I think sometimes with creatives, it's like
Speaker 1: that you know, Marigold was there, you just needed to
Speaker 1: get her out. It's like, you know, just percolating away.
Speaker 1: I think tip was it Michaelangelo that sculpted the David
Speaker 1: and Bob Bobby always talks about when somebody asked Michelangelo
Speaker 1: how we sculpted the David, which is arguably the most
Speaker 1: famous sculpture in the history of art. He said, Well,
Speaker 1: the David was always there. I just needed to I
Speaker 1: just needed to get all the bits, the non David bits,
Speaker 1: out of the way.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I think that's the most powerful way to look
Speaker 2: at creativity and not just as you know paint and pottery.
Speaker 3: Will's creativity like. Creativity is life like.
Speaker 2: What we're what we're destined to do is there if
Speaker 2: we are brave enough to take inspired action to meet it,
Speaker 2: if we're brave enough to take the feared and remove
Speaker 2: you know, the unknown and walk towards it, it's there
Speaker 2: waiting for us. But I just don't think, you know,
Speaker 2: that's a lot easier said than done. But it's very
Speaker 2: similar to be our process.
Speaker 1: Hey, I don't know if you heard about this tip.
Speaker 1: I don't know if we've spoken about this either. We
Speaker 1: might have, But so recently, do you know who banks
Speaker 1: he is, Samantha, I do, yes, yeah, so tif do
Speaker 1: you know this Banksy story that was circulating recently? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: So Banksy gave this this man I think it was
Speaker 1: eight original Banksy Samantha and to go to a market
Speaker 1: in New York. I don't know this story here.
Speaker 3: It's brilliant and.
Speaker 1: So for our listeners. So he went to this stall
Speaker 1: he set up, and I think there was like eight
Speaker 1: or ten. So a banks is worth whatever one hundred
Speaker 1: and two hundred US thousand dollars that he does in
Speaker 1: fucking twelve minutes. And then you know, But it was
Speaker 1: funny because then it had on the stall, it had
Speaker 1: original Bankses and they were like sixty or eighty bucks
Speaker 1: and they didn't even sell. I think they sold four
Speaker 1: or five of them or something, but not all of them,
Speaker 1: and people were haggling. People wanted it for forty, not sixty.
Speaker 1: But it's funny, how like, I'm fascinated. I don't know,
Speaker 1: we're digressing, but we'll come back. I'm fascinated with the
Speaker 1: psychology of value related to art. It's like because if
Speaker 1: you think, like, let's say I drew something that was
Speaker 1: identical to a Banksy and everyone thought Banksy did it,
Speaker 1: what's worth two hundergrand? But if it's the exact same thing,
Speaker 1: I mean, identical, same canvas, same paint, same everything. But
Speaker 1: fred Smith did it or Craig Harber did, it's worth
Speaker 1: a dollar thirty five? You know what do you think
Speaker 1: about that? The psychology and the value are I.
Speaker 2: Mean, it makes absolutely no sense. I appreciate it. I
Speaker 2: think art is valuable. I think artists should be paid
Speaker 2: at top dollar. But to your point, like it makes
Speaker 2: no sense when you do it that it's a very
Speaker 2: fickle world to live and revolve in that said having
Speaker 2: and more so now in the same age when digital
Speaker 2: is so easy to replicate, all things are so easy
Speaker 2: to imitate.
Speaker 3: So I don't know, I'm not throwing my.
Speaker 2: Money at art, but I do appreciate the process and
Speaker 2: I admire it from a distance. In that echelon of
Speaker 2: when we're talking about that type of money in art, you.
Speaker 1: Think about think about the psychology of money and value
Speaker 1: and perceived value. It's like, there are I was going
Speaker 1: to do a gig. I was booked to do an
Speaker 1: event with Now this might what I'm telling you is true,
Speaker 1: but the number might be flawed. But I was booked
Speaker 1: to do an event about a decade ago, and there
Speaker 1: was like five speakers, and one of the speakers was
Speaker 1: Lance Armstrong. Now this is before the shit hit the
Speaker 1: fan with his right, But I was told he was
Speaker 1: being paid quarter of a million dollars for a forty
Speaker 1: five minute note, right, And I you know, let's just
Speaker 1: say I wasn't getting anywhere near that, obviously, but at
Speaker 1: the time I'm thinking what could somebody do? Like what
Speaker 1: could how on earth? And I was just so blunt.
Speaker 1: Even if it was fifty grand, which it wasn't. It
Speaker 1: was way more than that. But even if it was
Speaker 1: fifty grand, right, And I looked, I look at that
Speaker 1: in the marketplace, and I think, you know, it's like
Speaker 1: people who would spend a million dollars on a car,
Speaker 1: or people who would spend Even where I live there's
Speaker 1: a whole lot of guys and a few girls. It's
Speaker 1: a very very cycling focused area.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: So if you have a bike, if you're out on
Speaker 1: Beach Road near where I live, and your bike's not
Speaker 1: worth ten grand, you've got a shit bike, right, you know,
Speaker 1: it's like, who the fuck would want to spend ten
Speaker 1: or fifteen thousand dollars on a push? Well, a lot
Speaker 1: of people, you know.
Speaker 3: It's interesting.
Speaker 2: I think with the speaker one is interesting because that
Speaker 2: makes more sense to me because I'm like, if Lance
Speaker 2: Armstrong is going to draw a lot of people to
Speaker 2: spend money on ticketing, that makes more sense in the
Speaker 2: creative world to me. The bike thing, whether it's you know,
Speaker 2: an identity a visual statement, like same as what you
Speaker 2: choose to wear, things like that. But when you talk
Speaker 2: about art on a canvas, that's where I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: that's that's a harder one to explain to me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, all right, So give us the snapshot of Marigold.
Speaker 1: Tell us about or as much or as little as
Speaker 1: you want to tell us about them.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: No, it's you know, it's an eighty page book, so
Speaker 2: children's literature, you know, I say it's in a children's format,
Speaker 2: but it very much is for any creative adult that
Speaker 2: feels like they've kind of drifted from their creativity. I
Speaker 2: think as kids, we are so innately in tune with
Speaker 2: our intuition and our creativity. And in the book, Marigold's
Speaker 2: intuition is represented by stars, so when she's inspired, you know,
Speaker 2: they dance her hands and through our minds, and you know,
Speaker 2: she has this experience where she's kind of not everything's
Speaker 2: about creativity and get your head out of the cloud
Speaker 2: and stop daydreaming, which I think every creative person has
Speaker 2: been told.
Speaker 3: And you know, you talk about the scar that you
Speaker 3: said has.
Speaker 2: Healed over when you're fourteen, but the DNA is still there,
Speaker 2: And I think very much when we're told those things
Speaker 2: as kids, we hold on to them as truth. So,
Speaker 2: you know, if we're a creative kid and we're now
Speaker 2: a creative adult, but we've suppressed that creativity, it's going
Speaker 2: to kind of sit as a rub on us where
Speaker 2: we might not feel like we're doing what we're, you know,
Speaker 2: what we meant to be doing in this life. We're
Speaker 2: doing what we've been told we should be doing. So
Speaker 2: that's what I hope the story resonates with people, bit kids,
Speaker 2: be it adults, that it's you know, we have been
Speaker 2: guided by our creativity to align with I say, our
Speaker 2: higher self and our higher purpose, and it's our responsibility
Speaker 2: to follow that. So I hope it encourages people to
Speaker 2: get back to their creativity and really follow that passion within.
Speaker 1: And what kind of age group do you think, Samantha, Like,
Speaker 1: I mean, you said adults, but did you write it
Speaker 1: with an age group in mind? Particularly?
Speaker 2: I wanted it to feel I would say the age
Speaker 2: group is about six to ten. It's a hardcover book
Speaker 2: that comes in a first edition collector's box, and I
Speaker 2: really wanted it to feel like, if you say it,
Speaker 2: you know a seven or eight year old. You can
Speaker 2: read the book entirely by yourself and it feels like
Speaker 2: you've read a grown up novel. I wanted them to
Speaker 2: feel that sense of achievement at the end of it.
Speaker 2: If it's a younger kid, you're probably reading it to
Speaker 2: them over two or three nights. And we've collaborated with
Speaker 2: Emma Leonard was an incredible Victorian illustrator, and she has
Speaker 2: bought the world of Marigold to life so beautifully through
Speaker 2: these watercolor and digital illustrations, and it's an illustration on
Speaker 2: every page.
Speaker 3: It's a beautiful art book as well.
Speaker 1: And who did you, if anyone well other than the
Speaker 1: adults that read it to give you bloody you know,
Speaker 1: technical feedback or robmatic you know, did you test drive
Speaker 1: it on any kids?
Speaker 3: I sent it to my god kids. I've got a
Speaker 3: few early readers that.
Speaker 2: Read it and the most heartwarming feedback and when I
Speaker 2: knew I was on the right track with it, where
Speaker 2: they said, oh my gosh, Marigold is me.
Speaker 3: I see myself in Marigold.
Speaker 2: And I think with any type of storytelling that is
Speaker 2: the goal, right We want to see ourselves reflected back
Speaker 2: in a character and their experiences so all the early
Speaker 2: readers that have had it in the last week or
Speaker 2: so have said similar things, so it's very very encouraging.
Speaker 1: That's amazing. Well, congratulations. Hey have you have you ever
Speaker 1: heard of a guy called sir Ken Robinson?
Speaker 3: Of course, yes, yeah.
Speaker 1: Do you remember did you see his Ted talk where
Speaker 1: he spoke about you know, do you remember this tip
Speaker 1: where sir Ken Robinson spoke about the young girl who
Speaker 1: couldn't focus in class and they thought she had some
Speaker 1: intellectual disability and blah blah blah, And the assessor came
Speaker 1: and said, oh, she's not she's not handicapped. She's an artist.
Speaker 1: She's a creative and of course her name was Gillian
Speaker 1: Lynn and she went on to choreograph Cats and some
Speaker 1: of the best shows in the world. It's like, the
Speaker 1: really interesting thing about intelligence is that it's a spectrum.
Speaker 1: It's not a thing. It's lots of things, you know.
Speaker 2: It is that I think for so long, I know
Speaker 2: myself growing up and I'm not sure what the school
Speaker 2: system is like now, but for so long it was
Speaker 2: greater just on one thing. So you kind of grow
Speaker 2: up not thinking that that you're that, and I think,
Speaker 2: you know, looking at what creative people have gone on
Speaker 2: to do that might not have had that encouragement as
Speaker 2: a kid. It's just wildly it's so intelligence all of
Speaker 2: its own, and it's quite mesmerizing.
Speaker 1: Wow, yeah, I'm with you, and it's look, I think
Speaker 1: there on now you know they're you know, there's a
Speaker 1: bunch of different you know, Joseph Steiner and Jiff what's
Speaker 1: the other one, the other model of education. That's a
Speaker 1: lot of people, Monsorry, yeah, Monsouri. There's quite a lot
Speaker 1: of new kind of academic models coming out, and I
Speaker 1: think also in mainstream schooling they're catching on. But I'm
Speaker 1: with you, Samantha, Like when I grew up and I'm
Speaker 1: fucking one hundred years older than you, but when I
Speaker 1: grew up, I was I mean, I wasn't a dummy,
Speaker 1: but yeah, you were all it was pretty much all
Speaker 1: about academic intelligence. And I think now we're starting to
Speaker 1: open the door and understand a little bit more broadly
Speaker 1: what that can mean. But hopefully meet kids where they're
Speaker 1: at in terms of their unique intelligence and ability. Just
Speaker 1: quickly before we let you go, super good to meet you,
Speaker 1: by the way, Great chatty, what's your next book about?
Speaker 3: I've got two kind of on the go. I she
Speaker 3: had got three on the go. I was in film.
Speaker 2: School in New York a few years ago, and it
Speaker 2: was when Roe V. Wade was overturned, and I took
Speaker 2: it as inspiration to kind of plot out this dystopian
Speaker 2: world of what that might look like twenty years from
Speaker 2: now if that continues on.
Speaker 3: So I'm working on that very dark and heavy material.
Speaker 2: So it's my internet search history is quite grim on
Speaker 2: that one. And I've already worked on the second book
Speaker 2: of Marigold. And yeah, I just got a few little
Speaker 2: projects on the go, and I keep jumping between between
Speaker 2: them all because I feel, you know, creatively, when I'm
Speaker 2: kind of in a project and get writer's block, I
Speaker 2: don't want to step away and stop being creative. I
Speaker 2: kind of want to just pivot or creative rulette I
Speaker 2: call it, and kind of move to the next project
Speaker 2: and allow the creativity to flow through that way.
Speaker 3: So it still being creative, but just on a different channel.
Speaker 1: Perfect. Now, what's this split between reading a hard copy
Speaker 1: book and listening to books? What are you? Are you
Speaker 1: all books or are you audible? Are you old?
Speaker 3: I prefer old school.
Speaker 2: I definitely prefer to have a book in my hands
Speaker 2: because I travel so much. I definitely am a kindle girl,
Speaker 2: but I do love an audiobook. If I'm on a
Speaker 2: road trip, I cometing to focus unless I'm in the car,
Speaker 2: but that's definitely an audiobook.
Speaker 1: Time great, Now, before we let you go, what do
Speaker 1: you want to plug? Where do you want to tell
Speaker 1: our listeners to go and look at? Obviously? The book
Speaker 1: everyone is called Marigold's Magic Stars by Samantha Wills, illustrated
Speaker 1: by What's your Friend's Name? Emma Leonard.
Speaker 2: Emma Leonard illustrated it, and it is available exclusively at
Speaker 2: briobooks dot com dot.
Speaker 1: Au perfect perfect, Hey, well, we appreciate you. Congratulations the book.
Speaker 1: The book looks beautiful. I've got an e copy and
Speaker 1: I'm not just saying this everyone, it looks fucking amazing.
Speaker 1: So well done you, good for you, Good for you,
Speaker 1: and good luck. We'll say goodbye off air, but for
Speaker 1: the minute. God luck with the next books as well,
Speaker 1: good luck with this. I hope you sell a squillion
Speaker 1: and keep doing what you do because you're really good
Speaker 1: at it.
Speaker 3: I appreciate that. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Thanks Amantha,