Speaker 1: The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.
Speaker 1: Detective sy aside of life the average person is never
Speaker 1: exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop.
Speaker 1: For twenty five of those years I was catching killers.
Speaker 1: That's what I did for a living. I was a
Speaker 1: homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead,
Speaker 1: I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.
Speaker 1: The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories
Speaker 1: from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw
Speaker 1: and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some
Speaker 1: of the content and language might be confronting. That's because
Speaker 1: no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.
Speaker 1: Join me now as I take you into this world.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to part two of my chat with Nick Midgley,
Speaker 1: former heroin Addict and now program director of the Hope
Speaker 1: in Health Rehab Center.
Speaker 2: Nick, welcome back, Thank you man.
Speaker 3: Thanks having me.
Speaker 1: I'm going to hit you up with a hard one.
Speaker 1: First up, who's the positive person in your life that
Speaker 1: you've you've met to date, who's had a good influence
Speaker 1: on you.
Speaker 3: I've made lots of people have had good influences on me,
Speaker 3: But in terms of the most positive person, like his
Speaker 3: attitude being positive would be my sponsor. You know. So,
Speaker 3: like I do a twelve step program, not so much now,
Speaker 3: but like I still a lot more of it. I'm
Speaker 3: still still involved to some degree. But I've got a sponsor,
Speaker 3: and I've had a few sponsors over the time. And
Speaker 3: I've always chosen people have done a lot of jail
Speaker 3: time and stuff, people that could hold secrets really well,
Speaker 3: because I thought I need a whole yeah you space,
Speaker 3: yeah yeah yeah. But at this time around, I knew
Speaker 3: I needed something different, you know, and Matte does this
Speaker 3: guy he worked in rehabits a long time too. You know,
Speaker 3: he's a he's a psychotherapist, and he wears all op
Speaker 3: shop clothes, you know, it's a surfey and Byron. He's
Speaker 3: got like, you know, his long long white hair, walks
Speaker 3: around bed, rides his bike everywhere and then yeah, yeah, man,
Speaker 3: he's just but he is the epitome of just like
Speaker 3: fucking happiness. He's always smiling, you know, and it's never
Speaker 3: it's never a FOURD thing. He's just he's just worked
Speaker 3: out a really simplistic way to live life, man. And
Speaker 3: I chose him because like I didn't know what it was.
Speaker 3: I just look at him. I don't know what it
Speaker 3: is you've got, but I know I need more of it,
Speaker 3: you know, and yeah and say yeah, he's Any.
Speaker 2: Time I got like a crisis, like a hall do
Speaker 2: I What do I? What do I do?
Speaker 3: I've got my MoMA, my boys sneaking his girlfriend into
Speaker 3: my place and they're both on the rage, and mom,
Speaker 3: what do I do?
Speaker 1: Like, you know, you do come across people like that
Speaker 1: and they put off a different type of energy, don't
Speaker 1: you Like there's a real zen like calmness about them
Speaker 1: that yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And then then that's that's the stuff that
Speaker 3: makes spiritual you really sort of appealing for me. Yeah. So,
Speaker 3: like you know, because when I took my spiritual path,
Speaker 3: like my I had this idea because my mum and
Speaker 3: my sister quite spiritual, and I thought that was quite
Speaker 3: weird and a weird thing to do that we weird
Speaker 3: people do in weird places.
Speaker 2: And stuff like that.
Speaker 3: But man, like you know, when I saw like someone
Speaker 3: like him that practices the way he does, and after
Speaker 3: him other people as well, I thought, fuck, you know,
Speaker 3: that's that's why you do one of the because like
Speaker 3: you know, it's yeah, you actually become you can actually
Speaker 3: become a peaceful person in this world, you know, and
Speaker 3: feel good within.
Speaker 1: Yourself that that contentment, and that's something that they always
Speaker 1: seem content where you contruct space. And it's good to
Speaker 1: surround yourself with people like that for sure, because I
Speaker 1: know that that's yeah, not necessarily in my nature, but
Speaker 1: a little bit rubs off from one person or another
Speaker 1: that you hang around, Like, you don't want toxic people
Speaker 1: in your life.
Speaker 3: You definitely want that. I think it's good to have
Speaker 3: like a big spectrum of people in your life, you know.
Speaker 3: So like you know, I've got I've got quite a
Speaker 3: lot of ambitious, very successful business people in my life
Speaker 3: and like you know, and entrepreneurial quite people that you know,
Speaker 3: it was sort of like you know, and we brainstorm
Speaker 3: each other sort of stuff and we help each other
Speaker 3: sort of grow and you know, financially and stuff like that.
Speaker 3: Then I've got my people that you know that you know,
Speaker 3: my my my boys, so you know, but they're really yeah,
Speaker 3: they're they're they're not shut off typical males or they
Speaker 3: can talk through proper, proper relationships stuff.
Speaker 1: And that's something that I've got Yeah, I've got a
Speaker 1: group of mates that we do the bloke type of
Speaker 1: conversation where it's just hey, you going good mate? Yeah
Speaker 1: you could be going through ship but yeah, it's it's
Speaker 1: it's superficial. And then you've got people in your life
Speaker 1: that you and blakes and let let's talk about like
Speaker 1: masculinity because I think that's. Uh, it's a tough world
Speaker 1: being a black, I think, and we cop a lot
Speaker 1: of and a lot of it deserved. But sometimes it's
Speaker 1: good for a bloke to be able to speak to
Speaker 1: another bloke and and talk about emotions. Yeah, you've said
Speaker 1: like you've gone through a relationship breakup. I would suggest
Speaker 1: half half your mates to go. No worries, mate, There's
Speaker 1: plenty of fish in the sea, but you want the
Speaker 1: conversation with someone that can break it down. How are
Speaker 1: you feeling?
Speaker 3: Man? That's right. So you know, I'm just gone through
Speaker 3: alas of breakup and it was it was a tough
Speaker 3: one because I had to I had to walk away
Speaker 3: from a girl that I really I really did and
Speaker 3: do your love you know, but it was just it
Speaker 3: wasn't functional in my life. And so if I went
Speaker 3: to a certain demographical friends that I do have, and.
Speaker 2: You know, one of them might tell.
Speaker 3: Me that you know, all women know, and then the
Speaker 3: other one might tell me I was like, you know,
Speaker 3: we'll get you another one and yeah, yeah, you know
Speaker 3: whatever if if they just make it really you know,
Speaker 3: show un superficial, there's nothing, there's nothing when to get
Speaker 3: out of there, like I need, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I need, I need.
Speaker 3: I need men in my life also that I haven't
Speaker 3: bring to stuff too and just you know, and have
Speaker 3: someone like you know, run, you know, run the actual
Speaker 3: scenario pass me. So oh if you leave this person,
Speaker 3: these are the attributes they have and just make things.
Speaker 1: Really, I think that's where we get confused. Like blokes,
Speaker 1: you know, well we're taught or I was taught not
Speaker 1: to show your emotions and all that. You bottle it up.
Speaker 1: And there's a need for that. You need blokes to
Speaker 1: be blokes at points in time you don't want to
Speaker 1: be even if you're scared, you're not going to show
Speaker 1: it in certain situations. But to have that to be
Speaker 1: able to be vulnerable. What I've found in my path
Speaker 1: in life, it's a lot of the guys, the genuine
Speaker 1: tough guys. Like when I say tough guys in that
Speaker 1: you want them standing beside you if you're in conflict,
Speaker 1: whether it's a physical or whatever. They're the ones that
Speaker 1: can actually strip it down because there's no bravado about them. Mate,
Speaker 1: I feel really sad. You know, it could be I
Speaker 1: feel really sad because of this or whatever. This is
Speaker 1: what I'm feeling. Do you find that that there's people there.
Speaker 1: We've got this perception that masculinity you can't be vulnerable.
Speaker 1: But the real tough guys, the ones that I look
Speaker 1: up to and respect, have got that vulnerability and can
Speaker 1: talk about it because they don't have to prove themselves.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think it takes a huge amount of
Speaker 3: strength and courage to actually be vulnerable. You know. The
Speaker 3: amount of the amount of strength that a man needs
Speaker 3: to have to be able to talk about how he
Speaker 3: actually feels and how he conducts himself in the world
Speaker 3: is huge. And I look at that as huge strength.
Speaker 3: They even did back when I was full of ego
Speaker 3: and insecurities and stuff. I used to look at men
Speaker 3: like that and go, fuck, that's really admirable. They can
Speaker 3: do that.
Speaker 2: But I wouldn't fuck that, you know, But like, good
Speaker 2: on them.
Speaker 1: It gets to that point where you've got the confidence
Speaker 1: to say, shit, yeah I was scared. I didn't want
Speaker 1: to go in there, but you still can do it
Speaker 1: or whatever you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, man, look like you know, and I see that
Speaker 3: with myself now. Man, I would not lay hands on
Speaker 3: anyone now unless to put hands on me first. And
Speaker 3: I've had I've had that. I've had people like aggressively
Speaker 3: fucking wanting to knock my head off right in front
Speaker 3: of me, and stuff like that too, And I don't
Speaker 3: bat I didn't now, like until I lay hands on
Speaker 3: me or or threaten my family. Like, I wouldn't do
Speaker 3: anything like that. But like you know, I know, I
Speaker 3: know that I've still got stuff in me that, you know,
Speaker 3: like if I need to, I can still fucking look
Speaker 3: after myself. But I also know that, like you know,
Speaker 3: I'm okay and comfortable enough in myself to be able
Speaker 3: to sort of, like you know, be on a podcast
Speaker 3: and tell you that I've just gone through a break
Speaker 3: up with a girl I really love. I wouldn't want
Speaker 3: to tell anyone that I loved anyone or you know,
Speaker 3: like I looked at I looked at love itself as
Speaker 3: like a weakness and a vulnerability let alone and anything else.
Speaker 3: I think I've been doing this long enough for myself.
Speaker 3: Now that I see the I see the different script,
Speaker 3: you know, like I I see uh, I see men
Speaker 3: so fucking hurting jart up and they're trying to act cool,
Speaker 3: you know, and and I hear it in their laugh
Speaker 3: like they laugh. It's a fake laugh. It's just like
Speaker 3: like now, you hear it at pubs and stuff especially,
Speaker 3: it's just like you know, and it's just this fake
Speaker 3: talk like there and it's like they put on this
Speaker 3: Yobo slang and you know, you just listen to it.
Speaker 3: I listened to that now. Just go man, fucking like
Speaker 3: how fake is it?
Speaker 1: Like I get bored with that type of class. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's in different goal.
Speaker 3: Fucking you know. Just honestly, I just can't be around it, man.
Speaker 3: You know that's not as a judgment to them. That
Speaker 3: was me all my life, you know, but I just can't.
Speaker 3: I just can't. I just I can't tolerate it now, man,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. And if I get that, like,
Speaker 3: I challenge you know, see, if if I get met
Speaker 3: with that on the top of guy now that try
Speaker 3: challenging to go a bit deeper and look a little
Speaker 3: bit deeper because I need that, you know, because I'm
Speaker 3: authentically who I am. You know, I've opened myself up
Speaker 3: to meet people the same way. And so when people
Speaker 3: can be authentic with me and give me the same
Speaker 3: we can have real good intimate conversations and like I
Speaker 3: talk for days with these people, get to know those
Speaker 3: people really well, and stuff like that. But you know,
Speaker 3: like the will challenge to people that you know that
Speaker 3: that meet me there, you know, and if they can't go,
Speaker 3: they can't go past the shallow.
Speaker 1: I struggle with the superficial conversations. And yeah, everyone's life.
Speaker 1: You get kicked in the guts, whether it's you know,
Speaker 1: you've had your heart broken or something happened, someone's died
Speaker 1: in your family, whatever. I like to when I've got
Speaker 1: situations like that, you've got people that can actually have
Speaker 1: that conversation and how do you feel, you mate, It's
Speaker 1: all right to feel this way.
Speaker 2: That's yeah.
Speaker 1: When the h fan with the cops had some really
Speaker 1: good friends that reached out because I'm standing there, no, no,
Speaker 1: it's fine. I'm sitting sitting at home just bloody doing
Speaker 1: nothing and not training, just stopped, and I was really
Speaker 1: in a down spot. But there were friends that I
Speaker 1: could actually talk to about that without being ashamed of it,
Speaker 1: talking about it, and it helped. But there were other people.
Speaker 1: How you go, mate, get the phone call, Oh good mate,
Speaker 1: no worries that type of thing, just a superficial I can't.
Speaker 1: I can't do those type of things. But when you
Speaker 1: are comfortable with And this is where I talk boxing,
Speaker 1: and so I don't get into trouble talking boxing all
Speaker 1: the time. But just police boys clubs and all that
Speaker 1: I saw when I was in the cops. A lot
Speaker 1: of kids come come through that, kids that were on
Speaker 1: the wrong track, kids that were getting in the fights,
Speaker 1: kids that were creating crime. And they'd come in there
Speaker 1: and they'd be taught to fight and then they'd stop fighting.
Speaker 1: And people can't work that out. But because they don't
Speaker 1: have to prove themselves, because we're all scared in a way,
Speaker 1: sometimes we end up in the fight because you're scared.
Speaker 3: Yeah, nearly all the times made all the all the
Speaker 3: A lot a lot of these hard asses that I've
Speaker 3: known in the past and stuff like that who was
Speaker 3: sort of proceeded the people that you don't want to
Speaker 3: mess with, mane A lot of them, A lot of
Speaker 3: that stuff comes from fear. And you know, even even
Speaker 3: this this mentor that took me through my process when
Speaker 3: I first met him, you know, uh, you know, he
Speaker 3: was trying to get a reaction out of me, you know.
Speaker 3: And and he said to me, he said, man, I'm
Speaker 3: just waiting for you to stop being full of ship.
Speaker 3: What do you mean full of ship? He said, Man,
Speaker 3: you got a shaved head, You're full of tattoos, you're
Speaker 3: full of steroids, You're full of fear, and you're full
Speaker 3: of ship. You know. I was like, fucking what. So
Speaker 3: I got reactive because back then, like you know, back then,
Speaker 3: because I was fearful, thought fucking out there you see
Speaker 3: through me, Yeah, because you saw me.
Speaker 2: I got reactors going.
Speaker 3: Mate, you're triggered like that because you know, you know
Speaker 3: I'm right, you know. And he took me through this price.
Speaker 3: He took me back to all these times when I
Speaker 3: was really fearful. I put up all this bravados and
Speaker 3: stuff like that.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: I mean, I I've plenty of times in my life
Speaker 3: where I actually thought I was going to meet death.
Speaker 3: Like I remember this one time I went to seven.
Speaker 3: You know, I was with a bunch of people just
Speaker 3: did a breaking in her, and like I was like
Speaker 3: fourteen or something. I went to seven eleven to get.
Speaker 2: A sausage roll sloopy, you know.
Speaker 3: I come back and maybe they had this fucking shitty
Speaker 3: little fucking like you know, watches that you used to
Speaker 3: go in your suit.
Speaker 2: Like the old people watch watch and the god I went.
Speaker 3: With mate he ended up backing it here and I
Speaker 3: fucking wanting to steal it. You know, I don't know
Speaker 3: if it would have been worth much of her anyway,
Speaker 3: everyone else in the room I saw it missing, you know,
Speaker 3: and I was the only one that left the apartment
Speaker 3: that just sucking all the scene. It was me and
Speaker 3: may like you know, these guys, like I said before,
Speaker 3: they're desperate. Now I'm the young teenager, I'm the most vulnerable.
Speaker 3: May you know that that time I thought, mane fuck,
Speaker 3: I'm deady and they turn on me, like they fucking
Speaker 3: really turned on me, and I thought I'm not going
Speaker 3: to make was on this guy's pulled it out of
Speaker 3: his I was, yeah, you know, they fucking saved me.
Speaker 3: But in that time I thought, fucking you know, I
Speaker 3: was dead. And the other times too, when I was
Speaker 3: at the gap week I walked down to the public
Speaker 3: bathroom downstairs, and you know, there's a guy who stabbed someone.
Speaker 3: And they both looked at me, and one of the
Speaker 3: bloat that stabbed them looked at me, is like, you
Speaker 3: better not fucking saying it. Yeah, and the guy on
Speaker 3: the ground going, man, you need to help me. They
Speaker 3: both they both looked at me in this fucking desperate way,
Speaker 3: and mate, I was just fucking I thought, fuck, I'm
Speaker 3: I'm fucking dead. They've had all these fucking like yeah,
Speaker 3: scenario is like that, and he and he took this
Speaker 3: this this mentor took me through all these places and
Speaker 3: made all these times that you've been fearful, like you've
Speaker 3: had to start the armor up. You know, you don't.
Speaker 3: You didn't do this on purpose all of a sudden.
Speaker 3: Now you're the professional boxer that's putting steroids in the
Speaker 3: going and fucking wait them, trying to make himself out
Speaker 3: to be this fucking person. But it's all come from fear.
Speaker 3: It's all come from you've been so fearful and so
Speaker 3: many times that you've had to sort of show something
Speaker 3: into the world, you know.
Speaker 2: And that that would have hurt.
Speaker 1: When he first pointed out to you, and that's why
Speaker 1: why you arek up. But then when you can take
Speaker 1: a step back and go, okay, you've got me there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, But that's how we built the relationship with me
Speaker 3: because because he knew here his small windows because I
Speaker 3: was so shut off to fucking doing his self help
Speaker 3: or whatever, but he knew he had to reach me,
Speaker 3: you know. And then that's the way he reached me.
Speaker 3: I was like, fuck, yeah, you saw me. Yeah, I
Speaker 3: just knew. I was like, I've got to.
Speaker 2: Work with you. I don't know, I don't know why.
Speaker 3: I don't know why because you've been pretty fucking rude
Speaker 3: to now.
Speaker 1: But like, credit to him, but credit to you also,
Speaker 1: because you could have said, oh, that's not the right fit.
Speaker 1: I don't want to hear your bullshit. Yeah, and stay
Speaker 1: in your own bulls.
Speaker 3: And that's that's the option I have. So I can
Speaker 3: continue living on with all my ego, all my bullshit
Speaker 3: bravados and stuff. I can continue on like that and
Speaker 3: still be that fucking insecure, fearful man and like, you know,
Speaker 3: fucking punch on if someone ever threatened my fucking you know,
Speaker 3: authentic self. You know, Oh, I can just take a
Speaker 3: really honest look at myself and just like, you know, okay,
Speaker 3: I don't want to be that person. And so when yeah,
Speaker 3: like I just where you know, like a housemaid and
Speaker 3: old roommate and a good mate in my training partner.
Speaker 3: You know, like you know, he lost his shit at me.
Speaker 3: You know, you've seen you wanted to knock my fucking
Speaker 3: head off, and I saw me in him fucking you know,
Speaker 3: at the end of the day, he's scared, he's any stuff,
Speaker 3: you know, and not one part of me wanted to
Speaker 3: hit him or hurt him. Man, you know, you know,
Speaker 3: it's like you know, I'll see what's behind it.
Speaker 1: It's a journey, like I like to think that I
Speaker 1: become a better person as I progress through life and
Speaker 1: learn from the lessons, learn more about yourself. And yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's clearly you're you're someone.
Speaker 2: That's absorbed it.
Speaker 1: And we'll get onto what you're doing with the rehab.
Speaker 1: But before we do, at what point you said you're
Speaker 1: cleaned four years?
Speaker 2: Yeah, for just four years two months? Okay?
Speaker 1: And was it a mindset or was it a gradual process?
Speaker 1: Did you you just it's.
Speaker 3: A mindset now, it's definitely a mindset. Now, so I've
Speaker 3: I've turned this into like a process. I've turned my
Speaker 3: life style into a process. You know. So, like I
Speaker 3: wake up in the mornings and I've got a way
Speaker 3: of living that I do every single day. And if
Speaker 3: I do that, then I won't use you know. So,
Speaker 3: But at the start, it just became this this this
Speaker 3: desperate need to fucking learn how to live, you know,
Speaker 3: because I had no idea, like, you know, I you know,
Speaker 3: my role models weren't good role models on how to
Speaker 3: live with like a you know, a good emotional imbalanced
Speaker 3: life and stuff like that. You know, so I looked,
Speaker 3: you know, when I got clean this time, you know,
Speaker 3: like I looked to mentors, and I did a lot
Speaker 3: of like you know, like retreats, like you know, a
Speaker 3: lot of a lot of men's groups and stuff like that.
Speaker 3: Lot you know who he taught me how to bear
Speaker 3: a father, taught me how to be a proper man,
Speaker 3: what a proper man is, and you know, how to
Speaker 3: communicate properly, like you know, what my needs were, what
Speaker 3: my values were, how to sort of like put boundaries
Speaker 3: up head just real what what for a lot of
Speaker 3: people would probably basic you know, stuff like if you're
Speaker 3: not if you're not raised that way or taught that way,
Speaker 3: like when that stuff's complex, you know. And so because
Speaker 3: I went on my own journey to sort of find
Speaker 3: that stuff out and stuff like that, you know, and
Speaker 3: then that became my passion. So well mate, like if
Speaker 3: I had to do this fucking work to find that
Speaker 3: out because it wasn't role model for me at home,
Speaker 3: Like I want to be able to give that to
Speaker 3: the other people that also liked me, didn't have that
Speaker 3: stuff role model.
Speaker 1: So you you inche or created hope and health. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and and what you've just talked there that was emotive
Speaker 1: for it. You wanted to yeah, help people.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean look, I had the initial vision of it,
Speaker 3: and then my youngest son's best friend, you know, his father,
Speaker 3: like you know, he does business startups and brand development
Speaker 3: and stuff like that, you know, for some big companies,
Speaker 3: you know. And I was just talking to him in
Speaker 3: the street, you know. And yeah, so I was I
Speaker 3: was already in the process of starting his business up
Speaker 3: and and and he helped me, you know, steer it
Speaker 3: into what it is now and and through that pros
Speaker 3: you know, like when when I started talking about my
Speaker 3: vision of like you know, recovery rehab and stuff like that,
Speaker 3: made it made the ears prick of other people in
Speaker 3: the industry that also knew they were working in the
Speaker 3: industry but also knew deep down that's that's the way
Speaker 3: to do it. Well, that's a really yeah, good, interesting
Speaker 3: way to do it, and attracted these people that left
Speaker 3: really secure jobs to come and work with us to
Speaker 3: sort of bring this this vision into into light, you know,
Speaker 3: and so now and they've had the little influences and
Speaker 3: stuff like. So my initial vision was, well, you know,
Speaker 3: I feel like it was good and still there, but
Speaker 3: it's now like something incredible.
Speaker 1: How we describe your initial vision.
Speaker 3: Uh was? My initial vision was just to sort of
Speaker 3: like you know, become more sort of like health conscious
Speaker 3: in rehab, you know, so instead of like going to
Speaker 3: rehab and just you know, having vending machines around and
Speaker 3: you know, and smoking shelters where people just you know,
Speaker 3: get cafe into the fucking eyeballs and and you know
Speaker 3: smoke cigarettes at the back and eat shit out of
Speaker 3: vending machines and stuff like that, you know, popping prescription
Speaker 3: pills for diagnoses they may not have, you know, like
Speaker 3: you know, I thought, well, let's let's you.
Speaker 2: Know, before we sort of like, you know, go through
Speaker 2: that measure.
Speaker 3: Let's take the let's take all the junk food aways,
Speaker 3: get a meeting, good food, Let's get a meeting and
Speaker 3: get them into training, get him in good physical shape
Speaker 3: and stuff like that too, and you know, let's look
Speaker 3: at the lost of factors before we start to diagnose
Speaker 3: them and stuff like that. You know, because a lot
Speaker 3: of a lot of the symptoms, you know, a lot
Speaker 3: of the symptoms that people are getting diagnosed with diagnoses
Speaker 3: with are often the same symptoms you know, that people
Speaker 3: will experience when they're not when they're not training, or
Speaker 3: they're eating ship food, or they've been drinking too much
Speaker 3: and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: So I definitely feel like there's a time and place
Speaker 3: of pharmaceutical for pharmaceutical intervention. But I do think it's
Speaker 3: there's a lot of people getting diagnosed with things they
Speaker 3: don't have because they're not willing to sort of look
Speaker 3: at themselves for you know, they're they're they're in a
Speaker 3: ship situation alive, and they want someone else to diagnose them.
Speaker 3: So they're going to have a pill an easy way
Speaker 3: out rather than fucking fixing up their life and and
Speaker 3: and eating better, getting up, training, sleeping earlier, and you know,
Speaker 3: doing doing the stuff that they need to do. So
Speaker 3: that that was that was my vision now but now
Speaker 3: it's something way bigger to know.
Speaker 1: Well, it's the rehab program that you've got. I just
Speaker 1: read out how how it's described. Uh, No, rehababilitation program
Speaker 1: is complete without an integrated care of your physical, mental,
Speaker 1: and emotional needs. At Hope Health, therapeutic treatment occurs within
Speaker 1: a holistic framework, encompassing all aspects of your recovery needs.
Speaker 1: This rehabilitative approach is grounded in real world experience game
Speaker 1: from supporting a wide range of clients to achieve tangible
Speaker 1: and sustainable recoveries. Our evidence based support structures tested and
Speaker 1: refined over time, resulting transform lives and ongoing sobrietry. So
Speaker 1: that's your Yeah, the way that the business is described.
Speaker 1: But I bring up a couple of points there. It's
Speaker 1: a holistic approach to it. Yeah, and you've touched on
Speaker 1: the health and I hadn't really well when I say
Speaker 1: I hadn't really thought about it, You've bought the point
Speaker 1: home that Okay, you've got an addiction. Your lifestyle shipped
Speaker 1: because of the addiction which comes first, not sure. But
Speaker 1: if you start to have a healthy lifestyle, what you
Speaker 1: do a bit of training the difference that that can
Speaker 1: make and fix that aspect of your life as well
Speaker 1: as getting you off the off the drugs.
Speaker 3: Honestly, for a lot of people, it's honestly that simple. Honestly,
Speaker 3: and for a lot of people who work with like
Speaker 3: you know, once they get an experience of what life's like,
Speaker 3: you know, change those last style factors, then they they're
Speaker 3: not just enjoying life so much.
Speaker 2: I don't go back to their vices.
Speaker 3: What we do is we we look at the individual
Speaker 3: when they when they when they make contact with this
Speaker 3: is help. And so instead of we don't do this
Speaker 3: one program that everyone that you know inquires comes in,
Speaker 3: do we look at what the individual has done prior,
Speaker 3: you know, what sort of treatment are done prior what
Speaker 3: you know, things that may have worked, that haven't worked,
Speaker 3: and stuff like that, and we you know, and we
Speaker 3: look at you know, what their sort of goals are
Speaker 3: and stuff like that, and like you know, what what
Speaker 3: what what they what they may need, what may work
Speaker 3: well for them, things I want to try and stuff
Speaker 3: like that, and we and we empower them to sort
Speaker 3: of make their own decisions and what what recovery will
Speaker 3: look like for them as long as it balances out,
Speaker 3: you know, their emotional, physical, and spiritual needs. We give
Speaker 3: them modalities to try and you know, to test run
Speaker 3: while they're with us and stuff like that, and then
Speaker 3: we've got case work.
Speaker 2: Is that sort of review these these these.
Speaker 3: Treatment plans that they're clinical team like doctors, psychologists.
Speaker 1: And you've got you've got all that this, Yeah, we've
Speaker 1: got all that.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, so yeah, we employed doctors, psychologists and psychotherapist stuff.
Speaker 3: They come up with these treatment plans and stuff like that,
Speaker 3: and as they get reviewed, they make sure the client
Speaker 3: actually enjoys doing it, and they also make sure that
Speaker 3: client's getting results from it, you know. So like if
Speaker 3: you look at you know, people like myself, I've done
Speaker 3: plenty of rehab before, and I would be going to
Speaker 3: rooms just just for context. I got kicked out the
Speaker 3: buttery after five and a half months because they thought
Speaker 3: I was doing no work, you know, because they thought,
Speaker 3: you know, I'm not being vulnerable, I'm not talking about
Speaker 3: my stuff. But I came from my world where you know,
Speaker 3: like you don't fucking talk about anything, you know, Like
Speaker 3: I barely even spoke. People used to call me Mumbles
Speaker 3: because all my conversations were under my breath, like because
Speaker 3: you do then environment that I was in, you know,
Speaker 3: and and I hadn't smiled in such a long time,
Speaker 3: you know, that my facial muscles went all limp, like
Speaker 3: I didn't trust new one, and so like you know,
Speaker 3: you couldn't put me with a therapist, and a therapist
Speaker 3: couldn't get through to me, you know. But for people
Speaker 3: like me, when I found breath work, I found meditation,
Speaker 3: I found acupunctual people stuck needles in it, you know,
Speaker 3: I dry needling in me, opened up all my meridian systems,
Speaker 3: unlocked all these like you know, all these like trapped
Speaker 3: energies and trapped traumas and stuff like that my body,
Speaker 3: you know, so like I healed through somatic healing, you know,
Speaker 3: through my body, rather than you know, psychological healing through
Speaker 3: like you know, talking out with you know, therapists and
Speaker 3: stuff like that. You know, like I can do that now,
Speaker 3: like now these conversations I'm having with you now, like
Speaker 3: I can do that now as a result of healing
Speaker 3: through my body, you know, through through somatic work, you know,
Speaker 3: so instead of having one program. We go, mate, everyone's
Speaker 3: going to get this topic. We're going to get someone
Speaker 3: in to talk to you about triggers and family. And
Speaker 3: if you can sort of like you know, be vulnerable
Speaker 3: enough and absorb information like that enough and like apply
Speaker 3: that information into your life, great, you know. But if
Speaker 3: you can't and you and you won't, then then you
Speaker 3: then you're fucked. You know. You leave rehab, you'll get
Speaker 3: your clean time, but you're leaving your fucked you know.
Speaker 3: And so we want to make sure that no one
Speaker 3: suit of cracks. It's like the education system. You know,
Speaker 3: school will teach one way, and if you can't learn
Speaker 3: that way, you're fucked, you know, like you know, a
Speaker 3: good teacher will teach the student the way they learn.
Speaker 3: You know. We want to make sure that we help
Speaker 3: people recover the way that they will heal, you know.
Speaker 1: And so it makes sense the way the way you're
Speaker 1: explaining it, and that trying. It's not a one stop
Speaker 1: program fits all. You've got to cater for the individual.
Speaker 1: But you're talking breath work and meditation and all that
Speaker 1: that helps create a balance life, doesn't it.
Speaker 3: Mate?
Speaker 2: For sure?
Speaker 3: For sure, I may not look look at with their
Speaker 3: with their with their head shaves and tatoos and stuff
Speaker 3: like that, but made that that spiritual, spiritual practice is made.
Speaker 2: It's that was for me, That was my That was
Speaker 2: what got me clean. You know.
Speaker 3: It was like, you know, it was how I actually
Speaker 3: understood what was going on for me, is like to
Speaker 3: how I could actually sit in that silence and not
Speaker 3: get fucking completely tortured by it. I kept on going
Speaker 3: back there, even though I was so uncomfortable for me
Speaker 3: to sit and sit in silence. I kept on going
Speaker 3: back because stuff was getting revealed to me by doing it.
Speaker 3: You know, the discomfort I was feeling from just going
Speaker 3: somewhere fucking quiet without distractions was where all these answers were.
Speaker 2: Coming to me, you know.
Speaker 3: And and you know, look, I believe, I believe meditation
Speaker 3: is for everyone. I believe we're actually I feel like
Speaker 3: we're all meant to be doing some sort of self inquiry.
Speaker 1: Well, it's starting to become more acceptable. I've been doing
Speaker 1: it for thirty years. And when I first started doing it,
Speaker 1: what's this weirdo cop doing this meditation? And what you've
Speaker 1: just said, And I think this is a good message
Speaker 1: for people that haven't meditated, that it is so confronting
Speaker 1: to sit down and meditate. Like if I was stressed work,
Speaker 1: I'm thinking I just want to go for a run
Speaker 1: because I just run or box or do something. Because
Speaker 1: then I'd not kept in my thoughts. It took more
Speaker 1: strength and effort to sit down and meditate and just
Speaker 1: slow your mind down and just process everything. And it
Speaker 1: was so confronting sometimes, and people think, and I try
Speaker 1: to explain that in my very I'm no expert by
Speaker 1: any means, but it's like saying I'm going to run
Speaker 1: a marathon without training. You can't just go, I'm going
Speaker 1: to meditate without putting the effort in. So you would
Speaker 1: have to sit down and you would have to allow
Speaker 1: yourself to sit in that quiet that sit in that space.
Speaker 1: But the benefits that I got, I don't do it
Speaker 1: every day now, but I have it there as a
Speaker 1: tool if I need to. If I'm stressed out about
Speaker 1: something or out of step with something, I can sit
Speaker 1: down and meditate. So I get what you're saying, because otherwise,
Speaker 1: if you're just treating the physical addiction, the chances are
Speaker 1: you could fall fall back into it. You've got to
Speaker 1: off something else.
Speaker 3: Not just the chances like the reality is you probably will,
Speaker 3: you know, because it's you know, everything is caused and effect.
Speaker 3: So when you when you're not traveling, well you know,
Speaker 3: and then you you know, you you block it with
Speaker 3: a substance, and a substance you know, it gets you
Speaker 3: high and like you know, and then you have affairs
Speaker 3: or you go to gamble or you you know, or
Speaker 3: cost your money. You put yourself in financial troubles and
Speaker 3: it costs your business stuff, your fucking business relationships. All that,
Speaker 3: all the business stuff and the family stuff and all
Speaker 3: the relationship stuff, the problems. That's all the fucking symptoms
Speaker 3: of the cause, which is us, you know.
Speaker 2: And so what we do is.
Speaker 3: Instead of managing the drug or the type of substance
Speaker 3: that it is and like how often they use it,
Speaker 3: like you know, in whatever way, it's like maybe we
Speaker 3: don't even look at that stuff so much. It's so
Speaker 3: you know, we go, well, why do you need to
Speaker 3: have a substance?
Speaker 2: So what what what is it?
Speaker 3: What is it in you that you know that that
Speaker 3: you need to like you know, block out, like you know,
Speaker 3: and what is you need to struct from?
Speaker 1: So you're treating the cause, but why they're why they're
Speaker 1: using the drug.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're treating the person. The person is the cause.
Speaker 3: And when people come in, you know, like, we don't
Speaker 3: do fucking you know, we don't well, we don't just it.
Speaker 3: We do do psychotherapy, sessions, groups and stuff like that.
Speaker 3: It's important, but that's not all we do. Like that,
Speaker 3: that's that's that's dealing with the effects of like us,
Speaker 3: you know, but we actually go to heal the person
Speaker 3: in there too. Everything that we experience on the outside,
Speaker 3: well is just a direct reflection of what's happening for
Speaker 3: us internally. So instead of trying to fucking work everything
Speaker 3: out on the outside, like you know, if we want to,
Speaker 3: we want a better life on the outside, we're just
Speaker 3: going to create a better internal world for us inside.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: Okay, how many people have you got working? It's been
Speaker 1: up and running now for what three four years?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we've got about thirty eight staff, I think.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And what do they include? You've got medical, Yeah.
Speaker 3: We've got We've got doctors, nurses, psychologists, psychotherapists, carriers, chefs,
Speaker 3: you know, cleaners, yoga instructors, breath work constructors, case.
Speaker 1: Managers and how many people do you have coming through?
Speaker 3: So we've got we've got two venues now we've got
Speaker 3: one that were just open. So we've got one in Podsville,
Speaker 3: which is northern New South Wales. Let's got a capacity
Speaker 3: of five, and then we've got a capacity of nine
Speaker 3: up on gold Case. Okay, yeah, So we do ours
Speaker 3: quite intimate a couple of reasons. A because you know,
Speaker 3: we want to make sure that people don't feel a
Speaker 3: crossophobic in there. You know, that people got a bit
Speaker 3: of space where they're living and stuff like that and
Speaker 3: not stepping on each other's toes and stuff. But also
Speaker 3: like you know, when people are working with the real
Speaker 3: deep rooted trauma, which is what we really want to
Speaker 3: focus on. So when I said what we healed the person,
Speaker 3: you know, we go we go into their staff, you know,
Speaker 3: into the you know what's actually what's actually causing that
Speaker 3: real fucking you know, the discord in them, the real
Speaker 3: disturbance in them. You know, once you start to uncover that,
Speaker 3: you know, unless they feel comfortable to bring that out,
Speaker 3: they won't, you know. And so it has to be
Speaker 3: like a quite safe intimate environment and stuff like that.
Speaker 3: So which means not too many people and also the
Speaker 3: people that we do bring in they're there for the
Speaker 3: right reasons, you know, So when we do our phone
Speaker 3: assessments and stuff that there's people getting pushed into go
Speaker 3: by their wives or their partners and stuff, we don't
Speaker 3: we don't let them come in. You know, we're telling
Speaker 3: they're welcome, they come in when they're ready, but we
Speaker 3: won't take them in unless they're and unless they're open,
Speaker 3: willing and ready to do the work that's that's in there.
Speaker 3: Then it becomes not you know, it becomes not safe
Speaker 3: for the people that are already in there doing the work.
Speaker 3: So it's got to be like a and we've got
Speaker 3: we've got to take ownership of that, you know.
Speaker 2: That's to get the right people in, the right pa,
Speaker 2: the right people in. Yeah, we're going to make sure.
Speaker 1: That because I would imagine in that environment, if you
Speaker 1: brought the wrong person in, he or she could corrupt
Speaker 1: the other other people.
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure, which is a big, a big probable
Speaker 3: I was saying about too, because we're working with a
Speaker 3: lot of first responders too, you know, you know, we
Speaker 3: work with copies. The coppers can't share the same space
Speaker 3: as like a fucking cream because neither of them will
Speaker 3: feel comfortable, you know, what I mean, neither of them
Speaker 3: feel comfortable opening up about what they've what they've experienced.
Speaker 3: You know, if they pushed themselves to that, they realize
Speaker 3: they're both the same, They're they're both the same on
Speaker 3: different speces.
Speaker 1: Well, what what what I've learned since I've I've left
Speaker 1: the cops and sitting down talking to all sorts of
Speaker 1: people here, we're not that not that different.
Speaker 3: It's just like that's definitely my that's definitely been my
Speaker 3: experience since doing this work too. But just to give
Speaker 3: you know, like you know, when people got a short
Speaker 3: period of time to do this sort of work, you know,
Speaker 3: it just it just makes sense not to mix them
Speaker 3: into the same.
Speaker 1: And so do you get I think I read on
Speaker 1: your website you get military people coming through is it
Speaker 1: post traumatic stress and addiction coming from that.
Speaker 3: Or well generally, I mean generally generally drug and alcohol
Speaker 3: they're not the problem. They're they're they're the solution to
Speaker 3: the problem often, you know, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: So people have used.
Speaker 3: Them as a solution to whatever, you know, whatever, you know,
Speaker 3: what what whatever they've gone through throughout the life, whatever
Speaker 3: has affected them through life. You know, it later becomes
Speaker 3: a problem because they use it dysfunctionally and stuff like that,
Speaker 3: you know, but then they believe, you know, that that's
Speaker 3: the problem, you know, Like I did too, like because
Speaker 3: when when I went to rehab the first few times,
Speaker 3: you know, I thought it was you know, I thought
Speaker 3: I had a drug problem.
Speaker 2: What I really had is a life living problem.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: That's that's I think that's a valuable point to make
Speaker 1: that when you break it down that simply because I'm thinking,
Speaker 1: you get the rehab because you're a heroin addict, but
Speaker 1: now you go in the rehab because you've got all
Speaker 1: these issues within in your own life, and the heroines
Speaker 1: the end of it.
Speaker 3: And that's that's the difference between our programming, that cause
Speaker 3: and effect program. We love the cause, like the heroines
Speaker 3: under the effect. That's that's a that's a byproduct of
Speaker 3: the fucking cause, the traumas that's in the person.
Speaker 2: You know, Like, but what healthy person is.
Speaker 3: Going to just go sticking needles in his arm random,
Speaker 3: no one, you know, Like, there's something in that person
Speaker 3: that is so fucking in a in so much fucking pain, despair,
Speaker 3: and you know that they need an outlet like like
Speaker 3: that they're willing to risk their life for every shot
Speaker 3: just to not feel the way they're feeling. Like, man, like,
Speaker 3: you can't you can't take that stuff lightly, you know
Speaker 3: what I mean. You can't just go, oh, he's just
Speaker 3: gotta got a heroin problem and we'll put him on
Speaker 3: some methadone. Like, no, he's got a fucking he's got
Speaker 3: a life living problem. And there's part of me feels
Speaker 3: so disconnected from this world and who he is and
Speaker 3: stuff like that. Let's try to fucking instead of masking
Speaker 3: it with like, you know, another drug, which is only
Speaker 3: going to further suppress what he's actually trying to fucking
Speaker 3: you know, we're trying to come up, you know, let's
Speaker 3: let's actually let's hear him, you know, and part of
Speaker 3: the individual treatment plans so people actually get hurt. Let's
Speaker 3: listen to the individual client, you know, and what what
Speaker 3: they actually need from us, and let's help them get
Speaker 3: those results. You know, Otherwise you just you don't get heard,
Speaker 3: you know, you just come in. It's like this is
Speaker 3: our program, Come do this. I hope it works for you.
Speaker 1: Now that you've been running for a couple of years,
Speaker 1: you've had a success and people that you look back
Speaker 1: and your employees with the results that the programs getting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely absolutely, we're collecting data as well. So well,
Speaker 3: at some point, at some point, you know, we're gonna
Speaker 3: you know, we're going to challenge the system a little bit,
Speaker 3: you know what we already are, but like you know,
Speaker 3: but you know, we want to We want to show
Speaker 3: people that, you know, this isn't an ego thing at all,
Speaker 3: you know, this is just like we just want to
Speaker 3: make sure that the other people know that there is
Speaker 3: another option, you know, So if other people, particularly the
Speaker 3: ones I love to work with that are the ones
Speaker 3: that have been through a lot of rehab before and
Speaker 3: through the cracks, you know, And I just want to
Speaker 3: make sure that that people know.
Speaker 2: It's like mane, We're not.
Speaker 3: Necessarily everyone's best option, but we're a option that's out
Speaker 3: there for people that have tried other ones, you know.
Speaker 3: And so like you know, when people are you know,
Speaker 3: fucking they're in despair. Families are in despare because they
Speaker 3: feel like they tried everything.
Speaker 1: It's well, try us, And is there a government support?
Speaker 1: Is the government funding?
Speaker 3: Has it not yet? Look, I hope to get there.
Speaker 3: There isn't There isn't yet. I mean look there, you know,
Speaker 3: there's the private and public sector and stuff like that.
Speaker 3: You know, so like you know, when when you when
Speaker 3: you go private, you've got the flexibility to do what
Speaker 3: you want, what you feel, and that's what we're doing now.
Speaker 3: But like I said before, we're measuring up. So we're
Speaker 3: collecting data and stuff and like that, and we will
Speaker 3: not eventually, like you know, be able to present that too,
Speaker 3: you know, to the governments and stuff like that, go well,
Speaker 3: look this is these are our results. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, when you get all that data and the results base,
Speaker 1: but how are you finding it personally? It's a business,
Speaker 1: it's obviously a passion.
Speaker 3: It's a business, but it's a calling. It's more than
Speaker 3: a businessman, you know. It's like I've run a lot,
Speaker 3: I've started, run and sold quite a few businesses over
Speaker 3: my time, and they've all seemed like worked to a degree,
Speaker 3: you know, like this is this is a calling out bounds,
Speaker 3: out of bed. It's cost me a couple of relationships,
Speaker 3: and I know that right now. It's I'm obsessed with it,
Speaker 3: like I was. I've got time for nothing else, man,
Speaker 3: and I love doing what I'm doing, you know, because
Speaker 3: I honestly feel like I'm doing something really fucking special
Speaker 3: in this space. I'm not saying that as an ego thing.
Speaker 3: Man Like, I don't, I don't need recognition for it.
Speaker 3: I feel like we're really revolutionizing this industry, not because
Speaker 3: we're doing anything fucking that. We came up with everything
Speaker 3: that I'm doing in this rehab space. This information is
Speaker 3: already out, that is already it's already proven that this
Speaker 3: stuff works right. But to actually get into a business
Speaker 3: model is quite tricky because when you're doing individualized treatment plans,
Speaker 3: and when you've got a capacity of like you know,
Speaker 3: fourteen fourteen people in total, and they're all doing their
Speaker 3: own program, and you've got cares and employees, like you know,
Speaker 3: in case managers take clients to all these different appointments
Speaker 3: because they're not all just getting shipped on one minibus
Speaker 3: to one area. You know. Yeah, it's not all you know,
Speaker 3: thirty people doing yoga. You might have wanted to doing
Speaker 3: yoga while the other's getting macupuncture, you know, but we're
Speaker 3: giving the individuals what they actually need. So operationally, logistically,
Speaker 3: it's it's it's a it's a trickier business. It's certainly
Speaker 3: a far more expensive business to run, and where we're
Speaker 3: at the cheaper end of private re still expensive. Fortunate
Speaker 3: when when you when you're employing doctors and nurses and
Speaker 3: psycho therapists and psychologists, made the overheads go through the roofs.
Speaker 3: So we're conscious of that. So we make it as
Speaker 3: cheap as possible to open up the market to as
Speaker 3: many people as you can while also keeping the business
Speaker 3: to float.
Speaker 1: You know, how how long is someone in the program?
Speaker 1: For general?
Speaker 3: It depends man generally, anywhere between a month and three
Speaker 3: months is generally what we get. But the old people
Speaker 3: stay longer. But we don't take anyone less than a month. Now,
Speaker 3: you know, like seeing a lot of a lot of
Speaker 3: probably rehabs do people a week or two, we just
Speaker 3: stopped offering that, you know, we we we we did
Speaker 3: a couple of people for two weeks, and we stopped
Speaker 3: doing that because I just think.
Speaker 2: You think you need a little bit more.
Speaker 3: It just seems like a bit of a money grab
Speaker 3: thing for me now, like I feel like it's going
Speaker 3: to tarnish my brand if I do that, like it
Speaker 3: may it opens your market right up. And if you
Speaker 3: if you don't get people for two weeks and sell
Speaker 3: people on the idea that they're going to get clean
Speaker 3: and their whole lives could be fixed in two weeks.
Speaker 3: You'll make a shipload of money, you know. But like, yeah,
Speaker 3: you're selling false streams. And when you when you when
Speaker 3: you're on the phone to these vulnerable people, their anxious families.
Speaker 3: If if you can honestly you can honestly do that, yeah,
Speaker 3: good on you con advantage people like that. And even
Speaker 3: the ones that we got in, they pressured me into that,
Speaker 3: you know. And and when when when I actually decided
Speaker 3: to give it a go, you know, I made them
Speaker 3: know really that I don't feel like it's a good idea.
Speaker 3: I highly recommend the extend these days, they didn't, and
Speaker 3: we haven't had success with two weeks, you know, and
Speaker 3: so like you know, I'd rather just not do it,
Speaker 3: rather just go maybe let someone else take the shitty data,
Speaker 3: you know, Like you know, we want to.
Speaker 2: Make sure that makes sense.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we want to make sure that that people get
Speaker 3: a they get they get an experience with us, you know,
Speaker 3: Like I feel like it takes at least four weeks
Speaker 3: to get that first bit of experience where where like
Speaker 3: the nutritious food and the exercise and the they're the mindful.
Speaker 2: Technique and stuff that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it takes, you know, like it takes about like,
Speaker 3: you know, a month before the neural chemistry even starts
Speaker 3: to take a bit of a shift and like you know,
Speaker 3: sell sell your sistance that you know, replenish itself to
Speaker 3: sleep cycle start to sort of you know, like you know,
Speaker 3: level themselves out. Takes about before you even realize, oh fuck,
Speaker 3: you know, maybe I'm maybe I haven't completely done a
Speaker 3: number of myself. Maybe I can come back to something
Speaker 3: fucking better, you know, like as we want to make
Speaker 3: sure everyone at least gets that experience, you know, it's
Speaker 3: what we call ourselves hope and health to like you know,
Speaker 3: I hope. We want to make sure that everyone gets
Speaker 3: the experience of hope where they where they go. Okay,
Speaker 3: well you know.
Speaker 2: Now I could do.
Speaker 3: Better, you know, And I love this. I love this
Speaker 3: experiment I did on hope. You know, whether they had
Speaker 3: rats and water, you know, where they swim for three
Speaker 3: minutes and they all drowned, you know, and they put
Speaker 3: more rats in water, and when they started to struggle,
Speaker 3: they took them out, they warmed them up, and then
Speaker 3: they put them back in and I swim for like
Speaker 3: twenty thirty minutes. Seriously, that was that was a real experiment.
Speaker 3: And so so when we give people the experience of hope,
Speaker 3: you know, and they realized, fuck it, because I've gone
Speaker 3: the rehabs when I already thought I was fucked. I
Speaker 3: thought I was done. I already thought my mind was cooked.
Speaker 3: I thought my fucking I thought my body was thrashy,
Speaker 3: you know, I thought I'll do were we had to
Speaker 3: get a couple of people off my back. And you know,
Speaker 3: when you had that experience, it's like, you know, all
Speaker 3: of suddens, like you've eaten a meal that you've actually
Speaker 3: digested and then you've just automatically you just use all
Speaker 3: of a sudden, just slept four hours, you know, all
Speaker 3: of a sudden, like maybe not in severe body aches
Speaker 3: and pains and you know, the cold sweats are stopped
Speaker 3: and like you know, and you're like, you know, yeah,
Speaker 3: your nervous and started to regulate, you know, and you're like, oh, fuck,
Speaker 3: you know this is what Yeah, it's actually maybe I
Speaker 3: can make it, you know, maybe can make it, you know,
Speaker 3: and just that the energy and the power of that hope,
Speaker 3: you know, it can catapult you. You know, like I said,
Speaker 3: if you can make rat swim another twenty five minutes,
Speaker 3: imagine I can do a fucking human makes sense, Like,
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 1: What, what about your yourself, Nick, Like what structures have
Speaker 1: you got in place? Because there's always hurdles around the corner,
Speaker 1: all different things. But I read that you get up
Speaker 1: at one thirty.
Speaker 2: In the morning, Yeah, thirty every morning, Yeah, and do your.
Speaker 1: Training and talk us through that, because I think there's
Speaker 1: a lot to be said for early rises.
Speaker 2: Yeah for sure.
Speaker 3: So Like the reason I start getting up at one
Speaker 3: thirty is because my mentor taught me how to meditate.
Speaker 3: He said to me, if you get up between one
Speaker 3: thirty and three, it's the quietest time. It's when they
Speaker 3: when they're there, when they're conflicting, disturbance of energies of
Speaker 3: people and all that piece, because they're all asleep, you know.
Speaker 3: So if you can medical everything catches rhythms, you know,
Speaker 3: like when women hang around together, the cycle together and
Speaker 3: stuff like you know, if I yawn, you catch my
Speaker 3: yawn and stuff that, you know, So rhythms catch each other,
Speaker 3: you know. And and when you meditate between one and three,
Speaker 3: like you meditate into the most pure rhythm you know,
Speaker 3: and so like you know, you know, you're going to
Speaker 3: be the most grounded throughout your day if you get
Speaker 3: up at that time, you know, and meditate that time.
Speaker 3: Because I got so used to meditating at that time.
Speaker 3: I was already up at that time, so I thought
Speaker 3: I'd just start kicking on my day then, you know,
Speaker 3: so I do my training, I do my walking, and
Speaker 3: and there's no disturbance. Man, there's no disturbance. And because
Speaker 3: like you know, just I had to sort of switch
Speaker 3: on a little bit spiritually as well, you know, like
Speaker 3: it just affected everything else I was doing so well,
Speaker 3: you know, so like you know, when I'm at the
Speaker 3: gym and I get on my phone, I don't do
Speaker 3: anything else, Like you know, when I'm between one thirty
Speaker 3: and seven am, hardly anyone's around, and it's just I've
Speaker 3: just got that time with just myself, you know, so
Speaker 3: like I get really I'm really clear on who I
Speaker 3: am today because I spent so much time on my own,
Speaker 3: you know. Like you know, like I said, I've just
Speaker 3: gone through a relationship breakup with like the you know,
Speaker 3: with the girl of my dreams, Like I've fucking adore her,
Speaker 3: you know, but I'm also completely okay with my own now,
Speaker 3: you know, Like, yeah, I miss her, but like I'm
Speaker 3: so okay in my own space that like I don't
Speaker 3: fucking have to, like you know, run back to something.
Speaker 3: I know it's not going to assume me because of that,
Speaker 3: you know, because I've spent all this time my own now,
Speaker 3: like you know, being so okay in you know, And.
Speaker 1: What do you put that down to the structure and
Speaker 1: the processes you having a lot of times, you know,
Speaker 1: people are defined by their relationships or whatever, and you know,
Speaker 1: if there's a breakup, people people feel destroyed.
Speaker 3: What are you.
Speaker 1: Saying that, Yeah, because you've talked about the lady and
Speaker 1: you loved it and then it's over for whatever reason.
Speaker 1: But you're you're fine with what you're Yeah.
Speaker 2: Oh, I mean I'm still processing.
Speaker 3: I'm still grieving and still still but I'm fine because
Speaker 3: like I know, I know that I've got a process
Speaker 3: in my life that if I follow this process, I
Speaker 3: wake up, I do my breath work, I do my visualization,
Speaker 3: I do my light therapy. I'll put these intentions into
Speaker 3: a light and absorb that in my cell systems and.
Speaker 2: Stuff like that.
Speaker 3: I have my cold showers, I get up and meditate,
Speaker 3: and I train, then I do my walking and stuff
Speaker 3: like that, you know, and then I eat my nutritious.
Speaker 2: Food and stuff.
Speaker 3: And you know, so if I got this process that
Speaker 3: I live by, you know, and it doesn't matter what
Speaker 3: happens in my life, I was going to make or
Speaker 3: do this process, so it doesn't matter how I feel.
Speaker 3: Because there's process driven people and there's emotional driven people.
Speaker 3: And so the emotional driven person will wake up and go, fuck,
Speaker 3: I don't feel like doing that today, so I won't.
Speaker 3: The process driven people will wake up and go, this
Speaker 3: is what I do, This is how I live, and
Speaker 3: so regardless of anything, this is what I'm going to do,
Speaker 3: you know. And so when you've got a process, like
Speaker 3: life still happens, like life will still throw you all
Speaker 3: sorts of curveballs, but like the process that you've developed
Speaker 3: just makes it all manageable. You know, if your emotional
Speaker 3: driven person, like you could be going really fucking good,
Speaker 3: you motivated at the gym, and everything's going really good,
Speaker 3: you go through a breakup. All of a sudden, you're
Speaker 3: in a fucking heartbreak, and you fucking throw your whole
Speaker 3: life out the window. So I'm experiencing heartbreak. I'm experiencing grief,
Speaker 3: but I'm also doing that, you know, while I'm doing
Speaker 3: my process. So the process keeps me good, keeps me stable,
Speaker 3: and so that's what I do. I try to I
Speaker 3: try to help people develop a process of their life,
Speaker 3: you know, where they realize what they actually want, who
Speaker 3: they actually want to be, get really clear on who
Speaker 3: they want to be, and then I help them develop
Speaker 3: habits they get there. It takes all the guests work
Speaker 3: out of out out of achieving what they want in life.
Speaker 3: You know, because if you know, if you wake up
Speaker 3: in the morning, go fuck, I hope I have a
Speaker 3: good day today. I hope some opportunities come to me today.
Speaker 3: It's like maybe you're you're fucking you know, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: you're hoping for a miracle. Whereas in like, if you've
Speaker 3: got habits in your life that will take you there,
Speaker 3: and every day you're just doing the things that take
Speaker 3: you there, you'll get there.
Speaker 1: Regardless I get where you're coming from. I'm an early
Speaker 1: riser and I love I'm not one thirty, but at
Speaker 1: four o'clock most mornings, and regardless of what time I
Speaker 1: get to bed of four o'clock get out, and I
Speaker 1: feel like I've cheated the world in that I've got
Speaker 1: so much, so much done. I've done my training, I've
Speaker 1: had a sauna, I've had a cold shower, I've even
Speaker 1: done some work, and I've had had a nice breakfast.
Speaker 1: And at seven o'clock on the rest of the world,
Speaker 1: the alarms are going off and people are getting up,
Speaker 1: and I feel like I've got an advantage over Yeah.
Speaker 3: Because I actually believe that you have. I believe you
Speaker 3: have cheated the world. I believe there's a there's an
Speaker 3: there's an energy, and there's a level of productivity that
Speaker 3: can be that like every every.
Speaker 2: Minute like it quates like an hour, what you can get.
Speaker 3: Done in that time is supernatural, like you know, because
Speaker 3: there's just no disturbances, you know, you know when when
Speaker 3: when you when you're sort of like if you're a
Speaker 3: nine to five guy, you wake up at nine and
Speaker 3: you finish at five. Mate.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, You've just got.
Speaker 3: So many disturbances and so much.
Speaker 2: Like you know, frantic ship around you.
Speaker 3: It's hard to make like it's hard to make good
Speaker 3: clear decisions, it's hard to be focused, it's hard to
Speaker 3: sort of be regulated, so you know, you're reacting to
Speaker 3: a world rather than sort.
Speaker 1: Of you wake up to the chaos if you get
Speaker 1: up later. I know what you're saying. And I feel
Speaker 1: like I got a little smile on my face every
Speaker 1: time I'm walking out and past all the neighbors, all
Speaker 1: the apartment I'm in, and everyone's asleep, and I'm thinking,
Speaker 1: I'm rocking this already, I've done some work. I'm about
Speaker 1: the train beautiful.
Speaker 3: And then and the other thing is that you will
Speaker 3: finish your day the way you start it. They're saying,
Speaker 3: like when the morning, when the night day or something?
Speaker 3: You know, but you know that actually good, there's science
Speaker 3: behind it. Like you finished your day is the way
Speaker 3: you start. So if you start your day with all
Speaker 3: these winds stuck in, all these wins, man like you,
Speaker 3: you you go to sleep feeling so accomplished. You know.
Speaker 1: I find it also nourishes you in that. Especially when
Speaker 1: I was in the cops, like I'd like the train
Speaker 1: early in the morning, a job could come in and
Speaker 1: that means I'm not going to be able to train,
Speaker 1: I'm going to be working through the night. But I
Speaker 1: was happy, and a couple of people I worked with
Speaker 1: that I would train with we're happy if we got
Speaker 1: our training done and it didn't matter what happenediable because
Speaker 1: we've done something. I felt like it was doing something
Speaker 1: something for yourself. Look, they're simple, what you've described, and
Speaker 1: when you when you break it down, it seems so
Speaker 1: simple in the way that you describe it. But it's
Speaker 1: something that we've forgotten in life, isn't it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's just it. It's so simple. It's just
Speaker 3: not easy. Yeah, it's just like, you know, the actual
Speaker 3: formulae is so fucking simple. Like it's just like it's
Speaker 3: understanding what you want, you know, creating a structure of
Speaker 3: process to get it, you know, and then the only
Speaker 3: hard part is just committing yourself every day to do
Speaker 3: it in regardless of how you feel. You know, people's feelings,
Speaker 3: you know, are so fucking that they're controlling their lives,
Speaker 3: you know, and they're they're they're sabotage in their life
Speaker 3: because of their feelings. I listen to their feelings rather
Speaker 3: than sort of like, you know, you know that they're
Speaker 3: getting suck into the instant gratification of a sleeping or
Speaker 3: a cheap meal or like a fucking you know, or
Speaker 3: something quick, rather than sort of like you know, prolonging
Speaker 3: their gratification to their fucking their goal, to the to
Speaker 3: the purpose the promises that are made to themselves.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, look you're you're living, breathing proof that you
Speaker 1: can turn your life around like that.
Speaker 2: The path that you're on.
Speaker 1: And look at now when you're talking, I haven't interrupted
Speaker 1: much because I can see you're just the passion is
Speaker 1: coming out and the excitement of what you're doing and
Speaker 1: what you're what you're achieving. Where do you You've got
Speaker 1: plans future? Where do you where do you see yourself? Yeah?
Speaker 3: I mean right now, like i'man you know, I'm a
Speaker 3: full dial in mode with hope, with hope and health
Speaker 3: and stuff like that too. I would like to get
Speaker 3: myself to the stage where you know, I'll probably slow
Speaker 3: down a little bit more and stuff too, and then
Speaker 3: I may be in that space I can actually have
Speaker 3: a proper relationship and sort of meet meet my partner's
Speaker 3: needs and stuff like that, and.
Speaker 2: Like you know, and give them what that is.
Speaker 1: I share, share your pain my Like I've been passionate
Speaker 1: with my work and doing stuff and the relationships have
Speaker 1: been up and down and all that, so I know
Speaker 1: what you're saying. And when it's all said and done,
Speaker 1: when you've got everything your t tick tick, you're feeling
Speaker 1: good about yourself, that the next thing is is find
Speaker 1: your self someone that you're you're happy to spend time with.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, for sure.
Speaker 3: And you know, like I don't believe that, you know,
Speaker 3: you need to have it all all the time. You know,
Speaker 3: I believe there's times and places for things and and
Speaker 3: right now, like you know, getting you know, getting this
Speaker 3: vision where I want to get it to is just
Speaker 3: that's that's where, that's where I want to put my focus,
Speaker 3: what I want to put my energy on and stuff
Speaker 3: like that too. So I go, right now, I'm giving
Speaker 3: that time. But yeah, you know, long long term, long term,
Speaker 3: I want to be able to.
Speaker 2: Do more of my coaching stuff.
Speaker 3: I want this re ad to go out on big scale,
Speaker 3: you know, I want this to be you know, I
Speaker 3: wanted to be all over the country. I want everyone
Speaker 3: to be able to have access to it all over
Speaker 3: the place, you know, because I think it's I think
Speaker 3: it's that I think it's such an important option to
Speaker 3: have for anyone, you know. But like you know, when
Speaker 3: when you're when you're getting you know, funding from like
Speaker 3: you know, government bodies like d v A or workover
Speaker 3: or whatever. You know, you've got to do things a
Speaker 3: certain way, to conform, to perform a certain way too,
Speaker 3: like you know, even though, like you know, even though
Speaker 3: we have a specific way of doing it, and they're like,
Speaker 3: you know, it's great, you know, but I love doing
Speaker 3: coaching stuff too, which is the stuff I do on
Speaker 3: the you know, on the side, you know, because I
Speaker 3: feel like I can do so intimately. I do it
Speaker 3: one on one. I don't do these group zoom calls.
Speaker 3: I do one on one coaching with my clients. It's
Speaker 3: the way I do it, you know, Like and like
Speaker 3: I just love doing that, you know. It's like I
Speaker 3: can I feel like I get to know my client
Speaker 3: really really well, and I can sort of shift his
Speaker 3: program to suit him better. And I just love it,
Speaker 3: you know, And like.
Speaker 1: It's good for the soul if you're helping helping people,
Speaker 1: and yeah, find a business and what you're doing and
Speaker 1: the passion for what you're doing and helping helping people.
Speaker 1: So if people want to find out about Hope in Health,
Speaker 1: where can they find you?
Speaker 3: Our website is ww dot Hope Inhealth dot com, dot
Speaker 3: au uh and then like an inquiry email there which
Speaker 3: will we'll get email to you myself an intake manager,
Speaker 3: and we'll get back on.
Speaker 1: Oh look good good stuff. And I like the fact.
Speaker 1: Also what you're saying is that it's an option. Yeah,
Speaker 1: consider it. You're not saying this doesn't work or this
Speaker 1: one's better than that.
Speaker 2: This is an option. Have a look at it for sure.
Speaker 3: For sure. Yeah, you know, not about that, not in
Speaker 3: competition with anyone, So it's not about competition. We want
Speaker 3: to make sure that you know, we refer other people
Speaker 3: onto other realps, you know, if we feel like, yeah,
Speaker 3: if we feel like we're actually not the best option,
Speaker 3: but particularly we'll fare them on.
Speaker 2: But we are.
Speaker 3: You know, we believe we are a really good option
Speaker 3: for you know, a huge for a huge percentage of
Speaker 3: people with addiction. You know, because of our individualized approach,
Speaker 3: we feel like we can we can, we can nearly
Speaker 3: reach everyone.
Speaker 1: Well, you got that lived experience, and I think that
Speaker 1: carries carries a lot too. But look, full credit to
Speaker 1: what you're doing. And I like your take on take
Speaker 1: on life. You've taken a little way to get there,
Speaker 1: a few few up ups and downs, but yeah, it's
Speaker 1: made you the person you are now and you're doing
Speaker 1: some good work, so full credit to you. And let's
Speaker 1: thank our mate ron Isherwood for putting us in touch
Speaker 1: the EPET.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what a legend.
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, class class person. So thanks very much.
Speaker 2: Good on, Gary, Thank you so much. Matte really appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Cheers