1 00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:06,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Ask Fear and Greed, where we try and 2 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: unravel the mysteries of business and politics and economics and finance. 3 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: And today radio ratings. A bit of a change. Given 4 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:19,079 Speaker 1: that Michael Thompson is the expert in radio, he is 5 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:23,080 Speaker 1: going to do the answering. Good morning, Michael, Good morning Sean. 6 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 2: It feels like you've set me up here because I 7 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 2: worked in radio now five years ago and things have 8 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 2: changed a little bit since then. 9 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 1: I ignore that listeners. He is definitely the expert in 10 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: the question today why are ratings so important in the 11 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 1: radio industry? But the little bit to that, what are 12 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 1: the ratings like? So we've got new ratings yesterday, right, 13 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 1: but how does that flow through to the bottom line? 14 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, there's a bit in this actually, And the 15 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 2: thing is that radio ratings are all important to a 16 00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 2: radio station and to the business underneath them, because it's 17 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 2: those those numbers that tell you exactly how many people 18 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 2: are listening to a radio station, and in doing so, 19 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 2: then a radio station is able to take those out 20 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:12,040 Speaker 2: to advertisers and really say this is exactly how many 21 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 2: people we have, and it breaks it right down into 22 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 2: demographics so that you know how many young people you 23 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 2: have listening under the age of eighteen, and how many 24 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:21,399 Speaker 2: people over the age of sixty five, and every demographic 25 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:25,480 Speaker 2: in between. And really that is very, very very valuable 26 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 2: information for an advertiser to know exactly who they are 27 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 2: reaching and in terms of the overall then significance to 28 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 2: the radio stations, it is really something to be able 29 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 2: to say we are number one, because that gets you 30 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 2: through the door. That really stands out when you were 31 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:44,839 Speaker 2: talking to an advertiser and say we are the number 32 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 2: one station, or we are the number one show in 33 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 2: Brisbane or in Sydney or in Melbourne or wherever you are. 34 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 2: That cuts through and advertisers want to be part of that. 35 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 1: Okay, So what was interesting yesterday was there was a 36 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 1: shift in both Sydney and Melbourne, two biggest markets in 37 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 1: terms of the number one stations. 38 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was not a good survey for talk radio 39 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 2: and particularly for the nine radio stations, which are the 40 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 2: stations that I used to work at a number of years. 41 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 1: Is there any corollary between the fact that you don't 42 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:20,079 Speaker 1: work there and they're not doing so well? 43 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:24,359 Speaker 2: A very delayed response five years later, Oh my god, 44 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 2: he's gone quick. Everyone switch off, No, I think we 45 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 2: can safely say that had absolutely nothing to do with it. 46 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 2: It was an interesting result because what we saw in Sydney, 47 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 2: right was two GB moving to second behind Smooth FM, 48 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:44,119 Speaker 2: which was a great result for Smooth, but really quite 49 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 2: a surprising one for two GB considering they're still number 50 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 2: one in the breakfast show like there is still a 51 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 2: lot of strength in the actual shows, but they did 52 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 2: have a big dip and at the same time Smooth 53 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 2: was performing very very solidly and stayed very strong and 54 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:01,239 Speaker 2: had an increase, and you just saw those two flip over. 55 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:05,359 Speaker 2: And in Melbourne, this was probably almost the bigger story 56 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 2: yesterday was that three AW was beaten into the number 57 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 2: two place by Gold FM. Gold hasn't been number one 58 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 2: since the nineties and three AW I think has been 59 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 2: number one as a radio station since I think two 60 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 2: thousand and one. So this is a very very big 61 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 2: shift for this to have happened, and there are a 62 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 2: number of reasons why it might have happened that it's 63 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 2: kind of referred to as oh, it's a bad book 64 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 2: kind of thing you might have in that industry. You 65 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 2: might go, oh, there was something that just bad luck, right, 66 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 2: But the thing is there is a lot of science 67 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 2: that goes into measuring the radio ratings. That it is 68 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 2: kind of streaming data that's taken from the radio station's websites, 69 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 2: from the apps that they're using, from the servers that 70 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 2: are actually kind of providing all of that. So there's 71 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 2: a lot of data going into it. There are surveys 72 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 2: being done where listeners are actually marking physically in a 73 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 2: survey book what they're listening to and when. Then there's 74 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 2: people wearing watches that monitors what they are listening to 75 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 2: at any particular time. So there's so much data going 76 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 2: into it. What I think might have happened potentially is 77 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 2: that what you can see in the past is a 78 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:20,280 Speaker 2: bit of a backlash to an election after an election 79 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 2: has been done, that sometimes just people just get sick 80 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 2: of talking about politics. 81 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:29,840 Speaker 1: So this actually brings me to my next question. In 82 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:35,280 Speaker 1: both cases Sydney and Melbourne, music overtook talkback. Yeah, is 83 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: talkback normally more popular than music stations? 84 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,840 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, in terms of the share of audience, And 85 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:46,280 Speaker 2: since this is being measured in share, the actual cumulative 86 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 2: audience that the raw number of people listening music stations 87 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 2: do outperform talk but because talk stations are listened to 88 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 2: for longer periods of time, the way the share is 89 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:02,600 Speaker 2: actually calculated puts that above the music stations. So that's 90 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 2: why the talk stations are able to say we're number 91 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:07,920 Speaker 2: one above all of the music stations because they might 92 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 2: be a smaller total number of people listening, but they 93 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:13,920 Speaker 2: are listening for longer so therefore they are hearing more 94 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 2: of those advertiser messages and things across a longer period 95 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 2: of time. And so this might have just been in 96 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 2: this particular case of backlash to the end of the 97 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 2: end of the election, people just need a break and 98 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 2: so they're going to music stations for that. There's a 99 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 2: whole bunch of other reasons that it could have happened, 100 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 2: and it may just have been that that backlash. Typically, though, 101 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 2: the middle of the year is a good time for 102 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 2: talk stations because you've got the AFL in Melbourne and 103 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 2: three OW holds the rights there, NRL for Sydney with 104 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:48,159 Speaker 2: two GB holding the rights there, and typically this should 105 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 2: be a strong time for them, but this case it 106 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:51,159 Speaker 2: has not played out that way. 107 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: Before we wrap Kiss FM's Kyle and Jackie Oh shows, 108 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 1: so they're being paid two hundred million dollars over ten years. 109 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:04,159 Speaker 1: They're taking their Sydney show to Melbourne eighteen months in. 110 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: It really hasn't worked in Melbourne yet. Their ratings have 111 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 1: been low, but there were some good signs for them yesterday. 112 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, there was a slight increase in Melbourne, not a 113 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 2: huge increase, but I think in that kind of case 114 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:21,280 Speaker 2: you would take anything as a positive thing. I'm surprised. 115 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:25,039 Speaker 2: I really am surprised that it hasn't worked to this 116 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:28,919 Speaker 2: extent at all, because I thought if anyone was going 117 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:32,600 Speaker 2: to be capable of taking a show into another market, 118 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:37,840 Speaker 2: it's a big challenge because Breakfast is such a local 119 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:40,160 Speaker 2: show that you really need to be responding to what's 120 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 2: happening in your city. But I thought if anyone could 121 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 2: do it, it would be Kyle and Jackie Oh, because 122 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:46,599 Speaker 2: that is a show that has built around celebrity that 123 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:49,040 Speaker 2: actually almost seems bigger than the city in which it's 124 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 2: broadcast from. So I thought if anyone would be able 125 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:54,279 Speaker 2: to do it, those two would be able to. And 126 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 2: maybe it just goes back to that absolute truth of 127 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 2: radio that local works, particularly in Breakfast. 128 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:03,280 Speaker 1: Well, I think for an ask, fear and greed, you 129 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 1: have come through with the goods. I normally perform at 130 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:08,159 Speaker 1: six to seven out of ten. I'm giving you eleven 131 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 1: and a half out of ten. 132 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 2: Very generous, obviously, Sean. I think that's the superb questioning. 133 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 2: Thank you very much, Michael, Thank you, Sean. 134 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: You've been listening to Ask Fear and Greed if you 135 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 1: want to hear our full program, and of course you 136 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: should listen to our full program. If you don't have 137 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 1: a downloaded go to your favorite podcast player, Apple, Spotify, 138 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 1: anywhere you can find it. I'll just go to Fearangreed 139 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 1: dot com, toda you and go from there. You can 140 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 1: listen to us every morning and every afternoon. I'm Shane Elma. 141 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 1: I have a great day.