Speaker 1: So Joe now an accomplice for the murder of these
Speaker 1: three police. Even though it's likely that he didn't kill
Speaker 1: any of them, he was still an accomplice.
Speaker 2: He was now a wanted man.
Speaker 1: And after that point you had Ned Kelly, Dan Kelly,
Speaker 1: Steve Hart and Joe Byrn as members of what is
Speaker 1: known as the Kelly Gang.
Speaker 3: I'm Jen Kelly from The Herald's Son and this is
Speaker 3: in Black and White, a podcast about some of Australia's
Speaker 3: forgotten characters. When stories of the Kelly Gang are written,
Speaker 3: it's always their charismatic leader who grabs the spotlight. But
Speaker 3: Joe Burn lived his own very colorful life. Today we're
Speaker 3: chatting to Georgina Feelen, author of a new book called
Speaker 3: Joseph Byrne From Larikan to Outlaw. As the title suggests,
Speaker 3: Joe Byurn started out as a young Larrikan before he
Speaker 3: became one of Australia's most notorious bushrangers. Also a bush
Speaker 3: poet who wrote stirring ballads about the Calligang's exploits. And
Speaker 3: he was a ladies man known by the nickname Sweet Birdie.
Speaker 3: As we'll hear today, Joe Byrn was also the strategist
Speaker 3: of the Calligang, and also sent threatening letters to the
Speaker 3: Victorian police and designed mock reward posters for the apprehension
Speaker 3: of police members. Georgina joins us now with the story.
Speaker 3: Welcome to the podcast, Georgina, thank you. Now, there's been
Speaker 3: an awful lot written about the Kelly Gang and Ned
Speaker 3: Kelly over the decades, But I'm curious, is this the
Speaker 3: first time that someone has taken such a detailed look
Speaker 3: specifically at the life of Joe Byrn.
Speaker 1: Yes, it is, so this is a first book that
Speaker 1: focuses solely on his life.
Speaker 3: Okay, Now, of all the Kelly Gang members, why did
Speaker 3: you choose to write a book specifically about Joe Byrn?
Speaker 1: Because his story had never been told in detail before.
Speaker 1: He'd always been kind of just a side character in
Speaker 1: other people's stories, and so I just felt that it
Speaker 1: was time to bring him out of the shadow of
Speaker 1: Ned Kelly.
Speaker 3: And after all this time, one hundred and fifty years,
Speaker 3: you've actually been able to dig up new historical information
Speaker 3: to flesh out his story for the public record.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I have. So there's information about Joe's personal life,
Speaker 1: about his health incidents that he was involved in, that
Speaker 1: have not been previously written about.
Speaker 3: Okay, now, and is it also true that Joe Byrne
Speaker 3: is supposedly the one who designed the Kelly armor.
Speaker 2: That's been a long held belief.
Speaker 1: However, Joe, in his own words, was against the armor,
Speaker 1: so I don't believe that it was his idea.
Speaker 3: No, Okay, we'll hear more about that, of course later
Speaker 3: in the story. Where does Joe Byrn's story begin?
Speaker 1: Joe Byrne's story begins in the mining township of Sebastopol.
Speaker 1: He was born in eighteen fifty six. He lost his
Speaker 1: father when he was only thirteen, and he was forced
Speaker 1: to become the man of the house. He was one
Speaker 1: of seven children, and in order to support his family,
Speaker 1: who were now fatherless, he worked a variety of jobs
Speaker 1: to support and provide.
Speaker 3: Now, one of the interesting things that I didn't know
Speaker 3: about Joe Byurrn is that he actually spoke his second language.
Speaker 3: Can you tell us about that?
Speaker 2: Ah?
Speaker 1: Yes, so Sebastopol obviously, because it was a mining town.
Speaker 1: Minus from all over the world had flocked to Sebastopol
Speaker 1: to try their luck, and many of these miners were Chinese,
Speaker 1: and Joe learned how he learned to converse in Cantonese
Speaker 1: with them, and he learned many of their customs and
Speaker 1: their habits as well.
Speaker 3: And that was really unusual, wasn't it. I mean, there
Speaker 3: weren't many people who were going to the effort at
Speaker 3: that time to learn Cantonese. It was a time when
Speaker 3: racism was pretty ripe, it was.
Speaker 1: Yes, it speaks a lot for Joe's character that he
Speaker 1: would go against that racism to actually show them their
Speaker 1: respect of learning their language and you know, getting to
Speaker 1: know them and befriending them. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Now, your book is called Joseph Berne from Larikan to Outlaw.
Speaker 3: We've obviously heard plenty about the outlaw side over the years.
Speaker 3: Tell us more about the Alarican side of him, especially
Speaker 3: in his childhood.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So, Joe, even though he tried initially to work hard
Speaker 1: and support his family, like many young men, he kind
Speaker 1: of drifted away, and so he began with his mate
Speaker 1: Aaron Sherrett. They would borrow horses, which means that they
Speaker 1: would take them for joy rides and then put them
Speaker 1: back in the owner's paddock or knocked up and exhausted.
Speaker 1: But apart from this, if they came across a stray
Speaker 1: philly or a calf. They would take it up to
Speaker 1: a disused yard and they would put their own brand
Speaker 1: on it. And one of the news one of the
Speaker 1: newsmen at the time stated that Joe Byurn was better
Speaker 1: known to the police than to the school master.
Speaker 3: And when did he really start to get into too
Speaker 3: serious trouble with the law? I mean, when did he
Speaker 3: first go to jail for example?
Speaker 1: Well, he first went to jail in June of eighteen
Speaker 1: seventy six, So up to that time the crimes that
Speaker 1: he was committing were fairly minor. But I suppose him
Speaker 1: he was kind of testing how far he could push things.
Speaker 1: So in May of eighteen seventy six, he and Aaron
Speaker 1: stole and butchered the local school cow.
Speaker 2: And while they.
Speaker 1: Were in the act of butchering it, a nosy neighbor
Speaker 1: spotted them and went all the way into Beechworth to
Speaker 1: report it, and the next day Aaron and Joe were
Speaker 1: arrested and sentenced to six months hard labor in Beechworth jail.
Speaker 3: It seems like such a harsh sentence for stealing and
Speaker 3: butchering a cow, doesn't it six months hard labor?
Speaker 1: It was definitely, however, keeping in mind that this was
Speaker 1: not Joe's first brush with the law. Both him and
Speaker 1: Aaron had been in trouble before, mainly for their love
Speaker 1: of riding other people's horses. So the judge kind of,
Speaker 1: you know that he wanted to make an example out
Speaker 1: of them.
Speaker 3: So how old was Joe when he went to jail?
Speaker 2: Joe was nineteen nineteen, Okay, so.
Speaker 3: He's released from jail. Has he met Ned Kelly yet?
Speaker 2: No, he hasn't.
Speaker 3: And how did they meet?
Speaker 1: So in eighteen seventy seven, Joe was in the beach
Speaker 1: Reord lockup waiting for his trial for grievously wounding a
Speaker 1: Chinese man.
Speaker 3: Oh, how did that happen? What was the tell us
Speaker 3: the details of that?
Speaker 1: So there was a dam next to where the Burn
Speaker 1: family lived. This was a dam that was open to use. However,
Speaker 1: there was one Chinese man named On who would claim
Speaker 1: that it was for his own use. And one hot
Speaker 1: summer day, Joe Byrne, along with Aaron Sherritt, decided that
Speaker 1: they wanted to go for a swim, and On came down.
Speaker 2: To fetch some water for his vegetable garden, and he
Speaker 2: was not happy.
Speaker 1: When he saw Aaron and Joe bathing in the dam,
Speaker 1: so he told them to get out. Words were kind
Speaker 1: of exchanged, heated words. Joe and Aaron decided, as two
Speaker 1: young Americans, that they would kind of pester these a
Speaker 1: little bit. And On and his mates took up bamboos
Speaker 1: and they chased, they chased Aaron and Joe, and Aaron
Speaker 1: picked up a stone to kind of defend himself, and
Speaker 1: he threw the rock and it kind of smashed into
Speaker 1: our n's temple, almost killing him. It was very serious,
Speaker 1: but miraculously they were discharged. So when they were in
Speaker 1: the lock up awaiting the trial, there was a young
Speaker 1: sixteen year old boy named Daniel Kelly who was in
Speaker 1: there for saddle stealing and he was the brother of
Speaker 1: Ned Kelly.
Speaker 3: So, just before we go on with what happened next,
Speaker 3: I'm curious about what the difference is in the sentence,
Speaker 3: given that Joe got six months for stealing and butchering
Speaker 3: a cow, I'm curious to know what the eventual sentence
Speaker 3: was for this terrible crime where he nearly killed this man.
Speaker 1: Well, you see, he actually it was Aaron who threw
Speaker 1: the stone, So Joe was I suppose he could have
Speaker 1: been tried as an accomplice but in actual injury are
Speaker 1: On he wasn't a part of it, so he was
Speaker 1: chased in a completely different direction to Aaron, so he
Speaker 1: didn't actually see any of what happened. But at the
Speaker 1: time people were very angry that Aaron especially had been
Speaker 1: let off because it was a serious crime. And On
Speaker 1: had actually spent quite a bit of time in hospital
Speaker 1: and he had to actually have a piece of bone
Speaker 1: removed from his cheek because the injuries that he had
Speaker 1: sustained were that bad.
Speaker 3: Just awful. And so Joe Byrne has met Dan Kelly.
Speaker 3: And is that how you suspects that Joe has ultimately
Speaker 3: metten It.
Speaker 1: Yes, so that's I suppose that's the first recorded time
Speaker 1: that Joe byrn and a Kelly were noted as being
Speaker 1: in the same place.
Speaker 3: And then Joe has become pretty tight with both the
Speaker 3: Kelly brothers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so in late eighteen seventy seven we next see Joe.
Speaker 1: He's actually living at the Kelly house and he is
Speaker 1: using an alias Billy King, and so, yeah, we have
Speaker 1: no idea how he met Ned Kelly. All we know
Speaker 1: is that they met some place, probably no doubt through
Speaker 1: Dan and Joe is now living at the Kelly house,
Speaker 1: and yeah, his life of crime escalates from there.
Speaker 3: And Georgina, can you tell it? Take us forward now
Speaker 3: to the events at Stringybuck Creek and especially Joe Burns
Speaker 3: role that day.
Speaker 2: Ah.
Speaker 1: Yes, So Joe had been with the Kelly brothers at
Speaker 1: their heart at Bullet Creek. He was helping them to
Speaker 1: procure funds for a retrial for their mother Ellen. And
Speaker 1: there was a warrant that was out for the arrest
Speaker 1: of Ned Kelly for the wounding of Constable Fitzpatrick in
Speaker 1: April eighteen seventy eight. Now Ned denied that he had
Speaker 1: anything to do with it, that he had actually been
Speaker 1: two hundred miles away. So there is a lot of
Speaker 1: speculation about whether he did wound Constable Fitzpatrick or not.
Speaker 2: No one really knows.
Speaker 1: However, Joe, being loyal, he was with the Kelly brothers.
Speaker 1: They were distilling whiskey and digging for gold because Ned
Speaker 1: was under the belief that if he procured enough funds
Speaker 1: he could get a retrial for his mother. So you
Speaker 1: had two police parties who were looking for net. He
Speaker 1: was aware of this, and they were because they were
Speaker 1: so close to where Ned and Dan Joe and Dan's
Speaker 1: mate Steve hartware Ned decided that in order to survive,
Speaker 1: he wanted to bail up the police, take their horses,
Speaker 1: their guns, and whatever food they had so he could
Speaker 1: be kind of one step ahead of them. However, as
Speaker 1: most people know, that's not how it eventuated, and three
Speaker 1: policemen lost their lives.
Speaker 3: And what happened afterwards, So.
Speaker 1: Joe now an accomplice for the murder of these three police,
Speaker 1: even though it's likely that he didn't kill any of them,
Speaker 1: he was still an accomplice. He was now a wanted man.
Speaker 1: And after that point you had Ned Kelly, Dan, Kelly,
Speaker 1: Steve Hart, and Joe Byrne as members of what is
Speaker 1: known as the Kelly Gang. So as wanted men, they
Speaker 1: were on the run. It was an exhausting few weeks
Speaker 1: of just trying to keep one step ahead of the police.
Speaker 3: So was Joe Byrn able to go around in public
Speaker 3: at that point or was he very much on the
Speaker 3: run as well?
Speaker 1: So he was very much on the run, but because
Speaker 1: he was not identified, that gave him a little bit
Speaker 1: more freedom to continue to get supplies, and he actually
Speaker 1: was seen in several hotels, but there was still that
Speaker 1: element that you know, he could be shot and captured.
Speaker 1: But because he hadn't been officially identified, he had that
Speaker 1: freedom to move around more than what Ned and Dan
Speaker 1: Kelly had.
Speaker 3: Okay, So Ned and Dan had been identified, but Joe
Speaker 3: and Steve Hart had not. Yeah, that's right, Okay, So
Speaker 3: those two were able to go and get supplies, and
Speaker 3: they were also able to go and gather information. What
Speaker 3: sort of information were they trying to gather?
Speaker 1: So they would have been trying to gather information about
Speaker 1: the police parties and where they were and just yeah,
Speaker 1: just so they could keep one step ahead of the police.
Speaker 3: And how long did the gang lie low for before
Speaker 3: they risked committing crimes again?
Speaker 1: So the events at stringer Back qreak occurred in October,
Speaker 1: late October eighteen seventy eight, and they robbed the bank
Speaker 1: at Euroa on the tenth of December, so.
Speaker 2: Not long at all.
Speaker 1: Ned and Joe, Joe being the strategist, knew that in
Speaker 1: order for their continued survival, they needed money for themselves
Speaker 1: to survive, but also to pay sympathizers and you know,
Speaker 1: to kind of keep people on side. So even though
Speaker 1: not a short time at all, but they had to
Speaker 1: you know, strike and procure funds.
Speaker 3: Now, Joe Burn's childhood friend, Aaron Sherrick comes back into
Speaker 3: the story at this point in a big way, doesn't he.
Speaker 1: Yes, So, after it was surmised or believed by the
Speaker 1: police that Joe Burn was one of the four members
Speaker 1: of the g the police had approached Aaron to give
Speaker 1: information or you know, to give him up, and so
Speaker 1: Aaron he agreed only if Joe's life could be spared. Now,
Speaker 1: after that interview or meeting with Commissioner Standish, he went
Speaker 1: back to Joe and he told him of what the
Speaker 1: police had offered him and told him and the gang
Speaker 1: realized that they could use this to their advantage because
Speaker 1: they could have Aaron pretending to work with the police
Speaker 1: and to kind of lead them off on wild goose chasers,
Speaker 1: and the gang would be, you know, many miles away
Speaker 1: somewhere else.
Speaker 3: Now, there's some you mentioned before that Joe Burn was
Speaker 3: the strategist of the gang. There's some good examples at
Speaker 3: this point of how he did that. Can you tell
Speaker 3: us more about that?
Speaker 1: Yes, So, Joe he's been described as the brains of
Speaker 1: the gang, so he would often be the person to
Speaker 1: go over the plans with Ned and to make sure
Speaker 1: that everything went as smoothly as possible. He also kept
Speaker 1: a diary where he would write down their ideas and
Speaker 1: where you know, he could plan every detail.
Speaker 2: So as well as planning for the raids.
Speaker 1: Joe was also a prolific letter writer and he wrote
Speaker 1: many threatening letters to members of the Victoria Police who
Speaker 1: he disliked. One notable person was Detective Michael Ward, who
Speaker 1: had been the arresting officer on many occasions during Joe's youth,
Speaker 1: and as well as threatening letters, he would also write
Speaker 1: out mock reward posters. So wherever there was reward posters
Speaker 1: placed up the gang, Joe would get one of his
Speaker 1: friends to place one of his own mock reward posters
Speaker 1: for the you know, the apprehension and delivery up into
Speaker 1: the ranges of certain members of the police, and these
Speaker 1: he would place near or beside where an official reward
Speaker 1: poster was. As well as mock reward posters, Joe would
Speaker 1: also draw caricatures and send those the police. These included
Speaker 1: caricatures of the gang shooting the police, as well as
Speaker 1: on one notable occasion, he sent Detective Word and illustration
Speaker 1: of a coffin, and he also included a piece of
Speaker 1: black crape.
Speaker 3: And again it really shows that Larkin side to his personality,
Speaker 3: doesn't it.
Speaker 2: Oh? It does.
Speaker 1: And because Joe was such a lover of writing and
Speaker 1: of words, this is kind of what set him apart
Speaker 1: from people like net because Joe he was a little
Speaker 1: bit more creative in the way that he thought. And
Speaker 1: the fact that yeah, he was, you know, writing to
Speaker 1: the police and sending in drawings. It's just yet it's
Speaker 1: very unlike anyone else.
Speaker 3: We'll be back soon to hear more about Joe Burns,
Speaker 3: so stay with us. Now you've written about how he
Speaker 3: wrote ballads of the gang's exploits. Do you do you
Speaker 3: have copies of any of those? Have you got any
Speaker 3: of those lyrics that you could read to us?
Speaker 1: So one of Joe's well known ballads is the Ballad
Speaker 1: of the Kelly Gang, which was sung to the tune
Speaker 1: of the Bold Soldier Boy, which was a Civil War song.
Speaker 2: Oh there's not a.
Speaker 1: Dodge worth knowing or showing that's going. But you'll learn
Speaker 1: this isn't blowing from the Bold Kelly Gang. We have
Speaker 1: mates wherever we go that somehow let us know the
Speaker 1: approach of every foe to the Bold Kelly Gang. There's
Speaker 1: not appeal of writing one bat ranger's heel or sighting,
Speaker 1: but would rather be for hiding though. I'd like to
Speaker 1: see us hang within their ranks. We rub their banks
Speaker 1: and say no thanks for what we do. Oh, the
Speaker 1: terror of the camp is the Bold Kelly Gang. Then
Speaker 1: if you want to spree, come with me and you'll
Speaker 1: see how grand it is to be in the Bold
Speaker 1: Kelly Gang.
Speaker 3: Okay? And did he send off these ballads to be
Speaker 3: published in any of the newspapers for example?
Speaker 2: He didn't do that.
Speaker 1: However, he did want to have them published, but this
Speaker 1: was never kind of eventuated. But they were because they
Speaker 1: were so well known. If you're walking past a hotel
Speaker 1: or a pub, you would often hear people singing Joe's ballads.
Speaker 3: So I wonder so that the words were just passed
Speaker 3: on from person to person. They weren't published anywhere. No
Speaker 3: people would sing them to each other, and that's how
Speaker 3: they learned the words. That's fascinating.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just like many of the folk songs from that time.
Speaker 3: Amazing.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 3: One of the other interesting sides to Joe Burn's personality
Speaker 3: is that he was a real ladies man. Can you
Speaker 3: tell us about that side to him.
Speaker 1: Yes, So one of the more interesting facets of Joe's
Speaker 1: personality was exactly right that he was a ladies man.
Speaker 1: Many of the bar maids that he flirted with would
Speaker 1: call him either sweet Birdie or Sugar, which they said
Speaker 1: was because he was so sweet, and it was also
Speaker 1: reported in the newspapers that he was the idol of
Speaker 1: the girls of the district.
Speaker 3: I wonder if it was just the bar maids that
Speaker 3: were calling him sweet Birdie and sugar, because I'm just
Speaker 3: imagining Ned Kelly and Dan Kelly calling him sweet Birdie
Speaker 3: and Sugar. I love the idea, but I find it
Speaker 3: hard to believe.
Speaker 1: I'm sure if they knew, they probably would have teased
Speaker 1: him about it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he did have various girlfriends, didn't he.
Speaker 2: Yes, he did so.
Speaker 1: Being so sweet Joe had He had a girlfriend called
Speaker 1: Maggie who lived in beach who worked in Beachworth, and
Speaker 1: despite the price on his head and the danger, every
Speaker 1: Saturday night, Joe would ride into Beechworth to spend time
Speaker 1: with her. As well as this, he also had an
Speaker 1: old sweetheart called Ellen Barron who lived near Chiltern, and
Speaker 1: he would see her often as well, where she would
Speaker 1: provide him with a home cooked meal and provisions and intelligence,
Speaker 1: which is just yeah, it's pretty remarkable that despite the
Speaker 1: danger that it brought, Joe was still going off to
Speaker 1: see these women who meant so much to him.
Speaker 3: Now, I'd love you to take us forward to February
Speaker 3: eighteen seventy nine when the Kelli gang raided the New
Speaker 3: South Wales River in a town of Jerildery. Because Joe
Speaker 3: Byurn was a key player in those in stable events,
Speaker 3: wasn't he.
Speaker 1: Yes, So, as well as the meticulous planning that went
Speaker 1: into the raid, Joe was also like a key figure
Speaker 1: in the robbery and the events that occurred. There'd been
Speaker 1: a newspaper report saying that, you know, there needed to
Speaker 1: be more police sent to Jiudary in case the gang
Speaker 1: happened to make a raid on the town. Now we
Speaker 1: don't know whether Ned read this and thought, oh, this
Speaker 1: is my chance. But when the gang when they arrived
Speaker 1: into town, they locked the two policemen in the cells,
Speaker 1: they took their uniform their uniforms and they kind of
Speaker 1: paraded around town as the new police officers and the
Speaker 1: same journalists who had written about the lack of policemen
Speaker 1: in Girruldary. When he saw these four uniforms men, he
Speaker 1: commented that they were the kind to catch the Kellies.
Speaker 1: So when Ned and Joe first, when they arrived first
Speaker 1: into Derudary, they went to the Wallpack Inn, which was
Speaker 1: just on the outskirts of the town.
Speaker 2: Now Here there was.
Speaker 1: A lady who were a barmaid who worked and her
Speaker 1: name was Mary the Alarakin.
Speaker 3: Oh, Mary the alarikin so a perfect match for Joe exactly.
Speaker 2: So her real name was Mary Jordan.
Speaker 1: However, she'd earned the nickname Mary the Alarakin apparently because
Speaker 1: she was just such a lover of jokes and you know,
Speaker 1: just such alarican. Now Ned remembered her, so he'd obviously
Speaker 1: made a visit previously and got to know Mary.
Speaker 2: Joe. However, you know, he was just absolutely taken with
Speaker 2: her instantly.
Speaker 1: In fact, during the night when Ned was there with him,
Speaker 1: Ned had to kind of pay Mary to stop serving
Speaker 1: alcohol simply because one he was getting so drunk, but
Speaker 1: two he was just so besotted with Mary's personality. So
Speaker 1: the next night, against Ned's orders, Joe rides back to
Speaker 1: the wall back in alone to spend an evening with Mary.
Speaker 1: Now we don't know what occurred. All that is known
Speaker 1: is that when Joe left at midnight, he had to
Speaker 1: be helped onto his horse because he was just so drunk. Now,
Speaker 1: when he rode back to the police station where the
Speaker 1: gang were and Ned apparently flew into quite a rage
Speaker 1: and he told Joe, you know you're going to ruin
Speaker 1: all our plans. And in fact, the next morning when
Speaker 1: the gang robbed the bank, Joe had a mighty hangover,
Speaker 1: and he had actually gone across the road to the
Speaker 1: Royal Male Hotel.
Speaker 2: To have a little hair of the dog.
Speaker 1: And in fact, when Joe bailed up the bank teller
Speaker 1: mister living he described Joe as looking drunk, but.
Speaker 3: He was still able to help rob the bank. Yes,
Speaker 3: despite his terrible hangover. Yeah, oh my goodness. So even
Speaker 3: while Joe Byrne was riding around with the Kelly Gang
Speaker 3: as an outlaw, he was still returning home to visit
Speaker 3: his mum pretty regularly, wasn't he.
Speaker 2: Yes, he was.
Speaker 1: This is something that I believe kind of sets you
Speaker 1: apart from some others is the fact that despite that
Speaker 1: there was a party of police that were watching his
Speaker 1: mother's house at Sebastopol. Now Aaron, who was working with
Speaker 1: the police but also not working with them, told them
Speaker 1: to watch the house from the back. So Joe he
Speaker 1: would utilize a mining race where he would creep along
Speaker 1: and he wouldn't be seen from where the police were,
Speaker 1: So this enabled him to continue his visits. However, one night,
Speaker 1: possibly he might have been drunk, I don't know, Joe
Speaker 1: had decided that he was going to visit his mother's
Speaker 1: from the side where the police were watching, and he
Speaker 1: actually stepped over a superintendent Hair. Now at the time,
Speaker 1: Head didn't do anything because he believed that if it
Speaker 1: was Joe Byrn, Aaron would tell them. But of course
Speaker 1: Aaron didn't tell them. But I just, yeah, I find
Speaker 1: it very funny that, you know, he is Joe Byurn
Speaker 1: with you know, such a high price on his head
Speaker 1: and he steps over the superintendent.
Speaker 3: Now let's go back to the Kelly Gang armor. So
Speaker 3: what was his role with the armor?
Speaker 1: As far as you believe, well, Ned had a plan
Speaker 1: that he wanted to derail a train full of police,
Speaker 1: either kill them or use them as hostages for the
Speaker 1: release of his mother, who at that time was serving
Speaker 1: a sentence of three years hard labor in Melbourne Jail,
Speaker 1: and from there he was going to, in full armor,
Speaker 1: take possession of one of the Banilla banks. Now, Ned
Speaker 1: believed that wearing the armor would mean that, you know,
Speaker 1: there wouldn't be any risk of them being shot. Joe, however,
Speaker 1: he wasn't a fan of this plan, and in fact
Speaker 1: he had devised his own plan, which was to rob
Speaker 1: one of the Beachworth banks. However, Ned, being the leader,
Speaker 1: he wasn't going to listen to Joe's idea. So Joe
Speaker 1: had told Ned probably many times that he believed that
Speaker 1: the armor would bring them to grief, despite Joe's like
Speaker 1: a faith in the armor. Ironically, his was the best
Speaker 1: mate suit, which probably just speaks more about you know,
Speaker 1: just in Joe than anything else. But some people have
Speaker 1: argued that it was Japanese samurai Ama that Joe had
Speaker 1: seen in one of the Chinese parades in Beachworth that
Speaker 1: inspired him to make the armor, But given that Joe
Speaker 1: had such little faith in it, I find this very
Speaker 1: unlikely and kind of hard to believe.
Speaker 3: Now, by eighteen eighty, what was going on with Joe
Speaker 3: and Aaron's friendship.
Speaker 1: So by eighteen eighty, the friendship between Joe and Aaron
Speaker 1: was very strained due to Aaron working with the police,
Speaker 1: even though he wasn't giving the police any true information
Speaker 1: about the gang, many sympathizers began to question his true motives,
Speaker 1: and there was a lot of kind of miscommunication and
Speaker 1: uncertainty around what Aaron was doing, and this kind of
Speaker 1: began to feed more into Joe's paranoia, I suppose, of
Speaker 1: starting to question whether he could actually trust his mate.
Speaker 1: And this was made even worse by the fact that
Speaker 1: a police party had been installed in Aaron's hut, which
Speaker 1: was observed by Joe's own brothers and possibly Joe himself.
Speaker 1: And yeah, because there was so much miscommunication and uncertainty,
Speaker 1: things just became very fractured, and Joe began to kind
Speaker 1: of believe what he was being told by the sympathizers
Speaker 1: and maybe even Ned or Daniel, Steve and Georgina.
Speaker 3: This obviously all led to a terrible climax to the story.
Speaker 3: Can you tell us what happened?
Speaker 1: Yes, So, on the twenty sixth of June eighteen eighty, Joe,
Speaker 1: believing now that Aaron was a trader, shot and killed
Speaker 1: Aaron in front horrifically in front of his wife and
Speaker 1: mother in law. After this tragic event which would have
Speaker 1: just traumatized all involved, Joe Byrn and Dan Kelly rode
Speaker 1: on to Glenrowan where Steve Hart and Ed Kelly had
Speaker 1: the town of glenro And bailed up and the train
Speaker 1: line torn up in preparation for the special train heading
Speaker 1: up to Beechworth after Aaron's murder. There was a long
Speaker 1: wait for the train and when the police arrived, the
Speaker 1: gang were kind of taken unawares, mainly because at that
Speaker 1: stage there had been a lot of alcohol consumed and
Speaker 1: the famous siege took place with the police. Joe Byrne
Speaker 1: was badly worned dead in their calf and later on
Speaker 1: he was killed when a stray bullet ripped into his groin,
Speaker 1: severing his femoral artery.
Speaker 3: Now his body was actually rescued from the glen row
Speaker 3: wan in, wasn't it ah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, So before the fire could fully take hold, Joe's
Speaker 1: body was dragged out. Then later that day it was
Speaker 1: taken to Banella and the next day it was put
Speaker 1: on display outside the Banella lock up for the purpose
Speaker 1: of photos to be taken.
Speaker 3: And that was for the press, wasn't it yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And is it true that that photo of Joe Burn's
Speaker 3: body propped against the wall of the police station is
Speaker 3: recognized as Australia's first ever press photograph.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes it is.
Speaker 3: It's amazing. And then where was Joe Byurn buried?
Speaker 1: So Joe Burn after the post mortem and and wax
Speaker 1: cast taken of his face in his hands for the
Speaker 1: purpose of a figure in the Chamber of Horrors in the.
Speaker 2: Melbourne wax Works.
Speaker 1: Joe was buried in a paupoise grave in Banilla Cemetery.
Speaker 1: The only people in attendance were the undertaker and a
Speaker 1: police officer, who made it very clear that he was
Speaker 1: only there because he had to be Oh my goodness, yeah,
Speaker 1: very sad. We mentioned at the start of the interview
Speaker 1: that you've been able to find quite a lot of
Speaker 1: new information about Joe Burn. Is there something in particular
Speaker 1: that you found of interest, Georgina. Yes. So the biggest
Speaker 1: thing that I found is just how wide spread the
Speaker 1: support was for Joe from the Chinese community. I'd kind
Speaker 1: of always known that he had support among the Chinese
Speaker 1: in Sebastopol, where he'd grown up, but you know, he
Speaker 1: was kind of he had so much support in the
Speaker 1: wider Chinese cammunity in the in the different towns, and
Speaker 1: they were some of his strongest and most loyal sympathizers.
Speaker 1: In fact, Superintendent Nicholson he was just blindsided by the
Speaker 1: amount of support that Joe received from the Chinese, and
Speaker 1: he believed foolishly that the only reason Joe garnered so
Speaker 1: much support was because the Chinese there was no reward
Speaker 1: posters in their language, so he had Chinese reward like
Speaker 1: reward posters written up in Chinese and placed around different towns,
Speaker 1: which is fairly ignorant. Really, you know, the reason why
Speaker 1: Joe had so much Chinese support was because he was
Speaker 1: respectful and he had many friends that in that community
Speaker 1: and that served him really well as an outlaw.
Speaker 3: And just finally, how would you sum up the story
Speaker 3: of Joe Burn.
Speaker 1: It's one of great complexity. You've got a young man
Speaker 1: who was Alarican, but he's also a bush poet. He's
Speaker 1: a you know, he's one of Australia's most notorious outlaws,
Speaker 1: but he's also someone who could be very you know,
Speaker 1: sweet and mild mannered. Yeah, he's a he's just so complex.
Speaker 3: Well, thank you so much for sharing the story. With
Speaker 3: us today. Georgina, thank you.
Speaker 1: So much for having me and allowing me to talk
Speaker 1: about Joe.
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening. This has been In Black and White,
Speaker 3: a podcast about some of Australia's forgotten characters, written and
Speaker 3: hosted by me Jen Kelly, edited by Nina Young and
Speaker 3: produced by John ty Burton. You can find all the
Speaker 3: stories and photos associated with our episodes at Heraldsun dot
Speaker 3: com dot au, slash iv a w. If you've enjoyed
Speaker 3: this podcast, we'd love you to leave a five star
Speaker 3: rating on Apple Podcasts. Even better, leave a review. Any
Speaker 3: comments or questions please email me at In Black and
Speaker 3: White at Heroldsun dot com dot au. Any clarifications or
Speaker 3: updates will appear in the show notes for each episode,
Speaker 3: and to get notified when each new episode comes out,
Speaker 3: make sure you subscribe to the podcast feed