WEBVTT - True history of Ned's mate Joe 0:00:03.840 --> 0:00:07.480 So Joe now an accomplice for the murder of these 0:00:08.000 --> 0:00:10.959 three police. Even though it's likely that he didn't kill 0:00:10.960 --> 0:00:12.840 any of them, he was still an accomplice. 0:00:12.960 --> 0:00:14.600 He was now a wanted man. 0:00:14.960 --> 0:00:19.440 And after that point you had Ned Kelly, Dan Kelly, 0:00:19.600 --> 0:00:23.200 Steve Hart and Joe Byrn as members of what is 0:00:23.360 --> 0:00:24.479 known as the Kelly Gang. 0:00:25.320 --> 0:00:27.360 I'm Jen Kelly from The Herald's Son and this is 0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:30.280 in Black and White, a podcast about some of Australia's 0:00:30.280 --> 0:00:34.400 forgotten characters. When stories of the Kelly Gang are written, 0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:38.600 it's always their charismatic leader who grabs the spotlight. But 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:43.040 Joe Burn lived his own very colorful life. Today we're 0:00:43.120 --> 0:00:46.720 chatting to Georgina Feelen, author of a new book called 0:00:47.000 --> 0:00:52.000 Joseph Byrne From Larikan to Outlaw. As the title suggests, 0:00:52.240 --> 0:00:55.280 Joe Byurn started out as a young Larrikan before he 0:00:55.360 --> 0:01:00.760 became one of Australia's most notorious bushrangers. Also a bush 0:01:00.840 --> 0:01:06.000 poet who wrote stirring ballads about the Calligang's exploits. And 0:01:06.120 --> 0:01:10.160 he was a ladies man known by the nickname Sweet Birdie. 0:01:10.440 --> 0:01:13.880 As we'll hear today, Joe Byrn was also the strategist 0:01:14.000 --> 0:01:17.800 of the Calligang, and also sent threatening letters to the 0:01:17.880 --> 0:01:23.280 Victorian police and designed mock reward posters for the apprehension 0:01:23.400 --> 0:01:27.399 of police members. Georgina joins us now with the story. 0:01:32.080 --> 0:01:35.880 Welcome to the podcast, Georgina, thank you. Now, there's been 0:01:35.920 --> 0:01:38.240 an awful lot written about the Kelly Gang and Ned 0:01:38.360 --> 0:01:40.960 Kelly over the decades, But I'm curious, is this the 0:01:40.959 --> 0:01:44.039 first time that someone has taken such a detailed look 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:46.639 specifically at the life of Joe Byrn. 0:01:47.520 --> 0:01:50.160 Yes, it is, so this is a first book that 0:01:50.280 --> 0:01:52.440 focuses solely on his life. 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:56.640 Okay, Now, of all the Kelly Gang members, why did 0:01:56.680 --> 0:01:59.240 you choose to write a book specifically about Joe Byrn? 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:04.200 Because his story had never been told in detail before. 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:08.000 He'd always been kind of just a side character in 0:02:08.080 --> 0:02:12.320 other people's stories, and so I just felt that it 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:14.640 was time to bring him out of the shadow of 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:15.400 Ned Kelly. 0:02:17.440 --> 0:02:20.760 And after all this time, one hundred and fifty years, 0:02:21.040 --> 0:02:24.360 you've actually been able to dig up new historical information 0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:26.880 to flesh out his story for the public record. 0:02:28.200 --> 0:02:32.320 Yes, yes, I have. So there's information about Joe's personal life, 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:36.760 about his health incidents that he was involved in, that 0:02:37.000 --> 0:02:39.079 have not been previously written about. 0:02:40.520 --> 0:02:43.600 Okay, now, and is it also true that Joe Byrne 0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:47.640 is supposedly the one who designed the Kelly armor. 0:02:48.840 --> 0:02:50.400 That's been a long held belief. 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:54.640 However, Joe, in his own words, was against the armor, 0:02:55.320 --> 0:02:57.600 so I don't believe that it was his idea. 0:02:57.800 --> 0:03:02.440 No, Okay, we'll hear more about that, of course later 0:03:02.520 --> 0:03:05.480 in the story. Where does Joe Byrn's story begin? 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:10.320 Joe Byrne's story begins in the mining township of Sebastopol. 0:03:10.960 --> 0:03:14.160 He was born in eighteen fifty six. He lost his 0:03:14.200 --> 0:03:17.240 father when he was only thirteen, and he was forced 0:03:17.280 --> 0:03:20.280 to become the man of the house. He was one 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:24.920 of seven children, and in order to support his family, 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:27.840 who were now fatherless, he worked a variety of jobs 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:31.639 to support and provide. 0:03:32.200 --> 0:03:34.240 Now, one of the interesting things that I didn't know 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:38.400 about Joe Byurrn is that he actually spoke his second language. 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:39.440 Can you tell us about that? 0:03:40.320 --> 0:03:40.440 Ah? 0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:45.000 Yes, so Sebastopol obviously, because it was a mining town. 0:03:45.680 --> 0:03:50.680 Minus from all over the world had flocked to Sebastopol 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:54.480 to try their luck, and many of these miners were Chinese, 0:03:55.080 --> 0:03:59.800 and Joe learned how he learned to converse in Cantonese 0:03:59.840 --> 0:04:03.960 with them, and he learned many of their customs and 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:05.080 their habits as well. 0:04:05.680 --> 0:04:07.960 And that was really unusual, wasn't it. I mean, there 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:10.280 weren't many people who were going to the effort at 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:13.160 that time to learn Cantonese. It was a time when 0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:15.560 racism was pretty ripe, it was. 0:04:15.800 --> 0:04:19.159 Yes, it speaks a lot for Joe's character that he 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:23.720 would go against that racism to actually show them their 0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:27.919 respect of learning their language and you know, getting to 0:04:28.000 --> 0:04:31.680 know them and befriending them. Yeah. 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:35.320 Now, your book is called Joseph Berne from Larikan to Outlaw. 0:04:35.680 --> 0:04:39.760 We've obviously heard plenty about the outlaw side over the years. 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:42.719 Tell us more about the Alarican side of him, especially 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:43.600 in his childhood. 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:44.840 Yeah. 0:04:44.880 --> 0:04:49.760 So, Joe, even though he tried initially to work hard 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:53.479 and support his family, like many young men, he kind 0:04:53.480 --> 0:04:57.040 of drifted away, and so he began with his mate 0:04:57.040 --> 0:05:01.800 Aaron Sherrett. They would borrow horses, which means that they 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:05.640 would take them for joy rides and then put them 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:09.800 back in the owner's paddock or knocked up and exhausted. 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:14.159 But apart from this, if they came across a stray 0:05:14.839 --> 0:05:17.680 philly or a calf. They would take it up to 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:20.800 a disused yard and they would put their own brand 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:24.720 on it. And one of the news one of the 0:05:24.800 --> 0:05:28.279 newsmen at the time stated that Joe Byurn was better 0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:30.800 known to the police than to the school master. 0:05:34.080 --> 0:05:36.840 And when did he really start to get into too 0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:39.200 serious trouble with the law? I mean, when did he 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:40.839 first go to jail for example? 0:05:41.640 --> 0:05:44.599 Well, he first went to jail in June of eighteen 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:48.320 seventy six, So up to that time the crimes that 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:52.160 he was committing were fairly minor. But I suppose him 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:54.800 he was kind of testing how far he could push things. 0:05:55.800 --> 0:05:59.880 So in May of eighteen seventy six, he and Aaron 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:02.839 stole and butchered the local school cow. 0:06:04.120 --> 0:06:05.880 And while they. 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:09.279 Were in the act of butchering it, a nosy neighbor 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:12.880 spotted them and went all the way into Beechworth to 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:16.080 report it, and the next day Aaron and Joe were 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:20.599 arrested and sentenced to six months hard labor in Beechworth jail. 0:06:21.600 --> 0:06:24.480 It seems like such a harsh sentence for stealing and 0:06:24.520 --> 0:06:26.960 butchering a cow, doesn't it six months hard labor? 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:33.000 It was definitely, however, keeping in mind that this was 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:36.320 not Joe's first brush with the law. Both him and 0:06:36.400 --> 0:06:40.360 Aaron had been in trouble before, mainly for their love 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:44.600 of riding other people's horses. So the judge kind of, 0:06:44.760 --> 0:06:47.040 you know that he wanted to make an example out 0:06:47.080 --> 0:06:47.360 of them. 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:51.559 So how old was Joe when he went to jail? 0:06:52.120 --> 0:06:55.159 Joe was nineteen nineteen, Okay, so. 0:06:55.279 --> 0:06:58.320 He's released from jail. Has he met Ned Kelly yet? 0:06:58.839 --> 0:06:59.480 No, he hasn't. 0:07:00.600 --> 0:07:01.640 And how did they meet? 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:06.760 So in eighteen seventy seven, Joe was in the beach 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:12.120 Reord lockup waiting for his trial for grievously wounding a 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:12.920 Chinese man. 0:07:13.240 --> 0:07:15.280 Oh, how did that happen? What was the tell us 0:07:15.320 --> 0:07:16.040 the details of that? 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:19.720 So there was a dam next to where the Burn 0:07:19.840 --> 0:07:24.680 family lived. This was a dam that was open to use. However, 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:29.280 there was one Chinese man named On who would claim 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:32.960 that it was for his own use. And one hot 0:07:33.040 --> 0:07:36.680 summer day, Joe Byrne, along with Aaron Sherritt, decided that 0:07:36.760 --> 0:07:40.880 they wanted to go for a swim, and On came down. 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:44.520 To fetch some water for his vegetable garden, and he 0:07:44.760 --> 0:07:45.720 was not happy. 0:07:45.520 --> 0:07:47.800 When he saw Aaron and Joe bathing in the dam, 0:07:49.080 --> 0:07:52.040 so he told them to get out. Words were kind 0:07:52.080 --> 0:07:57.160 of exchanged, heated words. Joe and Aaron decided, as two 0:07:57.440 --> 0:08:00.440 young Americans, that they would kind of pester these a 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:05.400 little bit. And On and his mates took up bamboos 0:08:06.960 --> 0:08:11.560 and they chased, they chased Aaron and Joe, and Aaron 0:08:12.040 --> 0:08:14.560 picked up a stone to kind of defend himself, and 0:08:14.720 --> 0:08:17.200 he threw the rock and it kind of smashed into 0:08:17.280 --> 0:08:22.280 our n's temple, almost killing him. It was very serious, 0:08:23.080 --> 0:08:30.200 but miraculously they were discharged. So when they were in 0:08:30.360 --> 0:08:33.560 the lock up awaiting the trial, there was a young 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:36.839 sixteen year old boy named Daniel Kelly who was in 0:08:36.920 --> 0:08:40.040 there for saddle stealing and he was the brother of 0:08:40.320 --> 0:08:40.840 Ned Kelly. 0:08:41.480 --> 0:08:44.040 So, just before we go on with what happened next, 0:08:44.120 --> 0:08:46.920 I'm curious about what the difference is in the sentence, 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:50.240 given that Joe got six months for stealing and butchering 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:54.080 a cow, I'm curious to know what the eventual sentence 0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:57.320 was for this terrible crime where he nearly killed this man. 0:08:58.720 --> 0:09:01.880 Well, you see, he actually it was Aaron who threw 0:09:01.920 --> 0:09:06.839 the stone, So Joe was I suppose he could have 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:11.240 been tried as an accomplice but in actual injury are 0:09:11.320 --> 0:09:13.839 On he wasn't a part of it, so he was 0:09:14.000 --> 0:09:17.599 chased in a completely different direction to Aaron, so he 0:09:17.679 --> 0:09:21.800 didn't actually see any of what happened. But at the 0:09:21.920 --> 0:09:26.120 time people were very angry that Aaron especially had been 0:09:26.320 --> 0:09:30.319 let off because it was a serious crime. And On 0:09:30.679 --> 0:09:33.880 had actually spent quite a bit of time in hospital 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:37.400 and he had to actually have a piece of bone 0:09:37.679 --> 0:09:40.920 removed from his cheek because the injuries that he had 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:42.560 sustained were that bad. 0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:48.320 Just awful. And so Joe Byrne has met Dan Kelly. 0:09:48.840 --> 0:09:51.680 And is that how you suspects that Joe has ultimately 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:52.120 metten It. 0:09:53.000 --> 0:09:57.360 Yes, so that's I suppose that's the first recorded time 0:09:57.600 --> 0:10:01.120 that Joe byrn and a Kelly were noted as being 0:10:01.360 --> 0:10:02.160 in the same place. 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:06.400 And then Joe has become pretty tight with both the 0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:07.160 Kelly brothers. 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:12.079 Yeah, so in late eighteen seventy seven we next see Joe. 0:10:12.280 --> 0:10:15.439 He's actually living at the Kelly house and he is 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:19.800 using an alias Billy King, and so, yeah, we have 0:10:19.920 --> 0:10:23.520 no idea how he met Ned Kelly. All we know 0:10:23.720 --> 0:10:27.600 is that they met some place, probably no doubt through 0:10:27.679 --> 0:10:30.960 Dan and Joe is now living at the Kelly house, 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:35.240 and yeah, his life of crime escalates from there. 0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:38.120 And Georgina, can you tell it? Take us forward now 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:41.240 to the events at Stringybuck Creek and especially Joe Burns 0:10:41.440 --> 0:10:42.120 role that day. 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:43.160 Ah. 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:47.040 Yes, So Joe had been with the Kelly brothers at 0:10:47.080 --> 0:10:50.959 their heart at Bullet Creek. He was helping them to 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:55.760 procure funds for a retrial for their mother Ellen. And 0:10:56.320 --> 0:10:58.480 there was a warrant that was out for the arrest 0:10:58.520 --> 0:11:01.800 of Ned Kelly for the wounding of Constable Fitzpatrick in 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:07.160 April eighteen seventy eight. Now Ned denied that he had 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:09.959 anything to do with it, that he had actually been 0:11:10.440 --> 0:11:14.040 two hundred miles away. So there is a lot of 0:11:14.440 --> 0:11:18.839 speculation about whether he did wound Constable Fitzpatrick or not. 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:20.200 No one really knows. 0:11:21.679 --> 0:11:25.880 However, Joe, being loyal, he was with the Kelly brothers. 0:11:26.040 --> 0:11:31.240 They were distilling whiskey and digging for gold because Ned 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:34.800 was under the belief that if he procured enough funds 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:38.920 he could get a retrial for his mother. So you 0:11:39.120 --> 0:11:44.280 had two police parties who were looking for net. He 0:11:44.520 --> 0:11:47.200 was aware of this, and they were because they were 0:11:47.280 --> 0:11:52.880 so close to where Ned and Dan Joe and Dan's 0:11:52.960 --> 0:11:57.360 mate Steve hartware Ned decided that in order to survive, 0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:02.440 he wanted to bail up the police, take their horses, 0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:07.440 their guns, and whatever food they had so he could 0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:11.400 be kind of one step ahead of them. However, as 0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:16.920 most people know, that's not how it eventuated, and three 0:12:17.000 --> 0:12:19.240 policemen lost their lives. 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:22.720 And what happened afterwards, So. 0:12:22.960 --> 0:12:27.440 Joe now an accomplice for the murder of these three police, 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:30.319 even though it's likely that he didn't kill any of them, 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:34.000 he was still an accomplice. He was now a wanted man. 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:39.319 And after that point you had Ned Kelly, Dan, Kelly, 0:12:39.559 --> 0:12:43.120 Steve Hart, and Joe Byrne as members of what is 0:12:43.320 --> 0:12:48.199 known as the Kelly Gang. So as wanted men, they 0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:52.520 were on the run. It was an exhausting few weeks 0:12:52.600 --> 0:12:56.040 of just trying to keep one step ahead of the police. 0:12:56.880 --> 0:12:59.720 So was Joe Byrn able to go around in public 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:02.240 at that point or was he very much on the 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:02.839 run as well? 0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:06.920 So he was very much on the run, but because 0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:10.720 he was not identified, that gave him a little bit 0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:16.600 more freedom to continue to get supplies, and he actually 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:21.520 was seen in several hotels, but there was still that 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:25.080 element that you know, he could be shot and captured. 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:29.480 But because he hadn't been officially identified, he had that 0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:33.319 freedom to move around more than what Ned and Dan 0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:33.959 Kelly had. 0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:37.640 Okay, So Ned and Dan had been identified, but Joe 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:42.079 and Steve Hart had not. Yeah, that's right, Okay, So 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:44.480 those two were able to go and get supplies, and 0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:47.280 they were also able to go and gather information. What 0:13:47.360 --> 0:13:49.000 sort of information were they trying to gather? 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:53.600 So they would have been trying to gather information about 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:57.440 the police parties and where they were and just yeah, 0:13:57.559 --> 0:13:59.760 just so they could keep one step ahead of the police. 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:04.360 And how long did the gang lie low for before 0:14:04.400 --> 0:14:06.320 they risked committing crimes again? 0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:11.400 So the events at stringer Back qreak occurred in October, 0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:15.400 late October eighteen seventy eight, and they robbed the bank 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:17.880 at Euroa on the tenth of December, so. 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:18.760 Not long at all. 0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:23.040 Ned and Joe, Joe being the strategist, knew that in 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:28.000 order for their continued survival, they needed money for themselves 0:14:28.080 --> 0:14:32.760 to survive, but also to pay sympathizers and you know, 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:36.200 to kind of keep people on side. So even though 0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:39.600 not a short time at all, but they had to 0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:43.320 you know, strike and procure funds. 0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:48.320 Now, Joe Burn's childhood friend, Aaron Sherrick comes back into 0:14:48.360 --> 0:14:50.360 the story at this point in a big way, doesn't he. 0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:55.880 Yes, So, after it was surmised or believed by the 0:14:55.960 --> 0:14:59.680 police that Joe Burn was one of the four members 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:04.080 of the g the police had approached Aaron to give 0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:06.760 information or you know, to give him up, and so 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:13.360 Aaron he agreed only if Joe's life could be spared. Now, 0:15:13.920 --> 0:15:20.360 after that interview or meeting with Commissioner Standish, he went 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:22.760 back to Joe and he told him of what the 0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:27.200 police had offered him and told him and the gang 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:31.200 realized that they could use this to their advantage because 0:15:31.280 --> 0:15:34.720 they could have Aaron pretending to work with the police 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:37.800 and to kind of lead them off on wild goose chasers, 0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:41.280 and the gang would be, you know, many miles away 0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:41.920 somewhere else. 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:47.280 Now, there's some you mentioned before that Joe Burn was 0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:50.040 the strategist of the gang. There's some good examples at 0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:52.440 this point of how he did that. Can you tell 0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:53.120 us more about that? 0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:58.360 Yes, So, Joe he's been described as the brains of 0:15:58.440 --> 0:16:02.720 the gang, so he would often be the person to 0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:07.440 go over the plans with Ned and to make sure 0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:11.920 that everything went as smoothly as possible. He also kept 0:16:12.520 --> 0:16:17.400 a diary where he would write down their ideas and 0:16:17.600 --> 0:16:19.800 where you know, he could plan every detail. 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:25.000 So as well as planning for the raids. 0:16:24.960 --> 0:16:29.880 Joe was also a prolific letter writer and he wrote 0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:33.560 many threatening letters to members of the Victoria Police who 0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:40.920 he disliked. One notable person was Detective Michael Ward, who 0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:45.040 had been the arresting officer on many occasions during Joe's youth, 0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:50.160 and as well as threatening letters, he would also write 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:55.120 out mock reward posters. So wherever there was reward posters 0:16:55.600 --> 0:16:59.400 placed up the gang, Joe would get one of his 0:16:59.640 --> 0:17:04.720 friends to place one of his own mock reward posters 0:17:04.960 --> 0:17:08.720 for the you know, the apprehension and delivery up into 0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:12.359 the ranges of certain members of the police, and these 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:16.719 he would place near or beside where an official reward 0:17:16.800 --> 0:17:22.400 poster was. As well as mock reward posters, Joe would 0:17:22.440 --> 0:17:28.359 also draw caricatures and send those the police. These included 0:17:28.840 --> 0:17:32.720 caricatures of the gang shooting the police, as well as 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:37.720 on one notable occasion, he sent Detective Word and illustration 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:41.159 of a coffin, and he also included a piece of 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:41.919 black crape. 0:17:44.080 --> 0:17:47.119 And again it really shows that Larkin side to his personality, 0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:47.520 doesn't it. 0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:48.680 Oh? It does. 0:17:49.000 --> 0:17:52.359 And because Joe was such a lover of writing and 0:17:52.520 --> 0:17:55.560 of words, this is kind of what set him apart 0:17:55.800 --> 0:17:59.280 from people like net because Joe he was a little 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:03.240 bit more creative in the way that he thought. And 0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:06.760 the fact that yeah, he was, you know, writing to 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:10.840 the police and sending in drawings. It's just yet it's 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:12.800 very unlike anyone else. 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:15.800 We'll be back soon to hear more about Joe Burns, 0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:27.000 so stay with us. Now you've written about how he 0:18:27.119 --> 0:18:30.560 wrote ballads of the gang's exploits. Do you do you 0:18:30.600 --> 0:18:32.840 have copies of any of those? Have you got any 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:34.719 of those lyrics that you could read to us? 0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:39.960 So one of Joe's well known ballads is the Ballad 0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:42.760 of the Kelly Gang, which was sung to the tune 0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:46.680 of the Bold Soldier Boy, which was a Civil War song. 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:48.800 Oh there's not a. 0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:52.400 Dodge worth knowing or showing that's going. But you'll learn 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:55.680 this isn't blowing from the Bold Kelly Gang. We have 0:18:55.880 --> 0:18:59.320 mates wherever we go that somehow let us know the 0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:02.960 approach of every foe to the Bold Kelly Gang. There's 0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:06.000 not appeal of writing one bat ranger's heel or sighting, 0:19:06.320 --> 0:19:08.520 but would rather be for hiding though. I'd like to 0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:12.520 see us hang within their ranks. We rub their banks 0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:15.000 and say no thanks for what we do. Oh, the 0:19:15.119 --> 0:19:18.080 terror of the camp is the Bold Kelly Gang. Then 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:20.480 if you want to spree, come with me and you'll 0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:22.640 see how grand it is to be in the Bold 0:19:22.720 --> 0:19:23.280 Kelly Gang. 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:28.040 Okay? And did he send off these ballads to be 0:19:28.119 --> 0:19:30.400 published in any of the newspapers for example? 0:19:31.600 --> 0:19:32.359 He didn't do that. 0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:36.440 However, he did want to have them published, but this 0:19:36.720 --> 0:19:41.359 was never kind of eventuated. But they were because they 0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:44.520 were so well known. If you're walking past a hotel 0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:49.480 or a pub, you would often hear people singing Joe's ballads. 0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:54.719 So I wonder so that the words were just passed 0:19:54.760 --> 0:19:58.280 on from person to person. They weren't published anywhere. No 0:19:58.680 --> 0:20:00.399 people would sing them to each other, and that's how 0:20:00.440 --> 0:20:01.960 they learned the words. That's fascinating. 0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:06.400 Yeah, just like many of the folk songs from that time. 0:20:07.119 --> 0:20:07.600 Amazing. 0:20:08.160 --> 0:20:08.280 Now. 0:20:08.359 --> 0:20:11.439 One of the other interesting sides to Joe Burn's personality 0:20:11.560 --> 0:20:13.560 is that he was a real ladies man. Can you 0:20:13.600 --> 0:20:14.960 tell us about that side to him. 0:20:15.760 --> 0:20:18.919 Yes, So one of the more interesting facets of Joe's 0:20:18.920 --> 0:20:22.000 personality was exactly right that he was a ladies man. 0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:26.359 Many of the bar maids that he flirted with would 0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:30.880 call him either sweet Birdie or Sugar, which they said 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:33.680 was because he was so sweet, and it was also 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:36.840 reported in the newspapers that he was the idol of 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:38.640 the girls of the district. 0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:41.080 I wonder if it was just the bar maids that 0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:43.879 were calling him sweet Birdie and sugar, because I'm just 0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:47.359 imagining Ned Kelly and Dan Kelly calling him sweet Birdie 0:20:47.359 --> 0:20:49.480 and Sugar. I love the idea, but I find it 0:20:49.520 --> 0:20:50.159 hard to believe. 0:20:51.200 --> 0:20:53.440 I'm sure if they knew, they probably would have teased 0:20:53.480 --> 0:20:53.920 him about it. 0:20:54.080 --> 0:20:58.520 Yeah, and he did have various girlfriends, didn't he. 0:20:59.359 --> 0:21:00.280 Yes, he did so. 0:21:00.880 --> 0:21:05.000 Being so sweet Joe had He had a girlfriend called 0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:08.200 Maggie who lived in beach who worked in Beachworth, and 0:21:08.880 --> 0:21:12.840 despite the price on his head and the danger, every 0:21:12.960 --> 0:21:16.800 Saturday night, Joe would ride into Beechworth to spend time 0:21:16.880 --> 0:21:20.840 with her. As well as this, he also had an 0:21:20.960 --> 0:21:25.399 old sweetheart called Ellen Barron who lived near Chiltern, and 0:21:25.720 --> 0:21:29.359 he would see her often as well, where she would 0:21:29.840 --> 0:21:34.200 provide him with a home cooked meal and provisions and intelligence, 0:21:35.880 --> 0:21:39.879 which is just yeah, it's pretty remarkable that despite the 0:21:40.080 --> 0:21:43.280 danger that it brought, Joe was still going off to 0:21:43.359 --> 0:21:46.800 see these women who meant so much to him. 0:21:48.600 --> 0:21:51.159 Now, I'd love you to take us forward to February 0:21:51.480 --> 0:21:54.159 eighteen seventy nine when the Kelli gang raided the New 0:21:54.200 --> 0:21:57.600 South Wales River in a town of Jerildery. Because Joe 0:21:57.680 --> 0:22:00.639 Byurn was a key player in those in stable events, 0:22:00.760 --> 0:22:01.080 wasn't he. 0:22:02.080 --> 0:22:06.440 Yes, So, as well as the meticulous planning that went 0:22:06.520 --> 0:22:11.240 into the raid, Joe was also like a key figure 0:22:11.440 --> 0:22:16.120 in the robbery and the events that occurred. There'd been 0:22:16.480 --> 0:22:21.560 a newspaper report saying that, you know, there needed to 0:22:21.600 --> 0:22:25.520 be more police sent to Jiudary in case the gang 0:22:26.320 --> 0:22:30.240 happened to make a raid on the town. Now we 0:22:30.359 --> 0:22:32.760 don't know whether Ned read this and thought, oh, this 0:22:32.920 --> 0:22:36.800 is my chance. But when the gang when they arrived 0:22:36.920 --> 0:22:41.679 into town, they locked the two policemen in the cells, 0:22:42.240 --> 0:22:46.720 they took their uniform their uniforms and they kind of 0:22:46.800 --> 0:22:51.320 paraded around town as the new police officers and the 0:22:51.440 --> 0:22:56.040 same journalists who had written about the lack of policemen 0:22:56.119 --> 0:23:01.280 in Girruldary. When he saw these four uniforms men, he 0:23:01.640 --> 0:23:04.240 commented that they were the kind to catch the Kellies. 0:23:05.560 --> 0:23:11.080 So when Ned and Joe first, when they arrived first 0:23:11.240 --> 0:23:15.200 into Derudary, they went to the Wallpack Inn, which was 0:23:15.400 --> 0:23:17.080 just on the outskirts of the town. 0:23:18.200 --> 0:23:19.600 Now Here there was. 0:23:19.600 --> 0:23:22.040 A lady who were a barmaid who worked and her 0:23:22.119 --> 0:23:23.560 name was Mary the Alarakin. 0:23:24.200 --> 0:23:28.440 Oh, Mary the alarikin so a perfect match for Joe exactly. 0:23:29.600 --> 0:23:31.320 So her real name was Mary Jordan. 0:23:31.520 --> 0:23:36.240 However, she'd earned the nickname Mary the Alarakin apparently because 0:23:36.280 --> 0:23:38.560 she was just such a lover of jokes and you know, 0:23:38.840 --> 0:23:43.840 just such alarican. Now Ned remembered her, so he'd obviously 0:23:45.160 --> 0:23:47.560 made a visit previously and got to know Mary. 0:23:47.920 --> 0:23:51.320 Joe. However, you know, he was just absolutely taken with 0:23:51.440 --> 0:23:52.160 her instantly. 0:23:52.760 --> 0:23:56.000 In fact, during the night when Ned was there with him, 0:23:56.160 --> 0:23:59.720 Ned had to kind of pay Mary to stop serving 0:24:00.080 --> 0:24:03.840 alcohol simply because one he was getting so drunk, but 0:24:03.920 --> 0:24:09.240 two he was just so besotted with Mary's personality. So 0:24:09.920 --> 0:24:15.639 the next night, against Ned's orders, Joe rides back to 0:24:15.840 --> 0:24:19.920