Speaker 1: Listeners are advised that this podcast series contains course language
Speaker 1: and adult themes. This podcast series is brought to you
Speaker 1: by me Headley Thomas and The Australian. Andy Reid sounded
Speaker 1: agitated when he called a few days before the release
Speaker 1: of this episode to talk about breaking news of a
Speaker 1: spate of murders and a purported serial killer. The banner
Speaker 1: headline on page one of the Sydney Daly Telegraph put
Speaker 1: it simply gone girl. The newspaper reported that a local
Speaker 1: politician was raising fears of a serial killer as sixty
Speaker 1: women had disappeared or met grisly ends in the state's
Speaker 1: north coast areas in the past thirty two years. A
Speaker 1: photograph of Bromwyn Winfield was included in a gallery of
Speaker 1: female victims. The report presented no evidence that Bromwyn had
Speaker 1: been abducted and murdered by a serial killer. Soon afterwards,
Speaker 1: Maddie Walsh, who has been a great help to me
Speaker 1: this past year, spoke to Sydney Drivetime radio hosts Joel
Speaker 1: Kine and Brian Fletcher, Avid listeners of the Bromwin series.
Speaker 2: We discussed dissect and dalve into crimes of the past.
Speaker 3: Season two of Bronwyn has over four million downloads and
Speaker 3: Jordi Us once again is bromwin Winfield's second cousin, the
Speaker 3: very talented young Maddi Walsh. What you've been doing is
Speaker 3: unbelievable them Maddie. What's been happening in your world?
Speaker 4: There is just still so much information to dive into
Speaker 4: and dig through, just working towards getting justice for Bromwell.
Speaker 4: Everyone in Lennox Head is talking about it. Every week
Speaker 4: more information comes out.
Speaker 3: Have most people in and around that area, to your knowledge,
Speaker 3: we've heard this podcast.
Speaker 5: Is that you're understanding.
Speaker 6: It's been the talk of the town.
Speaker 4: I think there is only one conclusion that they are
Speaker 4: all standing by, and that is her husband may have
Speaker 4: something to do with it.
Speaker 2: You would imagine that the police are listening closely to
Speaker 2: this because after the Teacher's pet we know what happened.
Speaker 2: Chris Dawson was down guilty.
Speaker 5: Casseroted. Is there any contact with the police.
Speaker 2: Do you keep them updated, do they contact you or
Speaker 2: are they just sort of standing from afar at the moment.
Speaker 4: Sometimes they ask for information and they come and ask
Speaker 4: for interviews. With Judy Singh, who came forward in the
Speaker 4: last season about witnessing a body in the back of
Speaker 4: the car, so it is looking promising from the police perspective.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you've seen the front pages of
Speaker 2: Daily Telegraph today, have you read that story saying that
Speaker 2: sixty women who were brutally murder or disappeared on the
Speaker 2: New South Wales North Coast Wow in cases where the
Speaker 2: perpetrators were never caught can be revealed for the first
Speaker 2: time in fears some of the women were victims of
Speaker 2: serial killers. This has just come to light today.
Speaker 1: Maddie started to hoset the serial killer theory down.
Speaker 2: Is there something you could investigate now?
Speaker 4: Knowing Bromwin's case and her circumstances, the chances that a
Speaker 4: serial killer was involved in her disappearance very very minuscule
Speaker 4: and just based on all the evidence I have seen
Speaker 4: and what we know to be what happened to bromwhen
Speaker 4: the night she went missing and her husband being the
Speaker 4: last person to see her alive, I don't think there
Speaker 4: is a serial killer involved in her disappearance.
Speaker 6: I'm not saying it's not possible.
Speaker 4: However, I just don't think it's really in the cars
Speaker 4: for Bronwin's.
Speaker 2: Gross John Winfield's still up there. Isn't he a bit
Speaker 2: of a recluse? I just can't fathom why he would
Speaker 2: still be there.
Speaker 4: And he stays there, he knows people talk about him.
Speaker 4: She's still surfing and still living his life.
Speaker 5: Obviously, the loss of Bromwin, that's the first and foremost thing.
Speaker 5: Has he something to do with it?
Speaker 3: That's a tragedy that he would be still ramming around
Speaker 3: in the event that he has nothing to do with it.
Speaker 3: That's a tragedy that he will be tired with that
Speaker 3: sort of things. We may never know the truth of
Speaker 3: his story. So the whole thing, Mattie, is just a
Speaker 3: complete travesty and tragedy.
Speaker 1: The fallout from the podcast and the separate linking of
Speaker 1: Bronwin's disappearance to a supposed serial killer are taking a toll.
Speaker 1: Bronwin's eldest daughter, Crystal responded by posting on Facebook.
Speaker 5: Interesting read in today's paper?
Speaker 6: Did a serial killer kill my mom?
Speaker 5: She's one of the women listed.
Speaker 7: In this article as possible victims, and it's good to
Speaker 7: see are the possibilities being explored.
Speaker 1: Sentiments like these from Crystal are difficult for Brohman's brother
Speaker 1: Andy and his wife Michelle to read.
Speaker 5: And hear.
Speaker 1: In the two subscriber episodes of eleven and twelve, you
Speaker 1: heard Crystal's perspective on the case and how Crystal lost
Speaker 1: her life savings to a self proclaimed soul doctor.
Speaker 8: She was asked to purchase a large number of gold bullion,
Speaker 8: and that gold bullion is no longer gold bullion. It
Speaker 8: is now actually a container full of cement.
Speaker 5: Well, how does that happen?
Speaker 8: Whilst they were actually sitting with her in a park,
Speaker 8: they have actually shown her a magic trick, and whilst
Speaker 8: she's been blown away by the magic trick and she's
Speaker 8: not paying attention, they have switched the container that had
Speaker 8: the gold in it and have actually replaced it with
Speaker 8: a container of the same exact likeness and it has
Speaker 8: ce mention.
Speaker 1: It is that sort of money, three hundred to three
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty thousand dollars very important and significant for Crystal. Yes,
Speaker 1: relationships are under strained. There is an elderly woman called
Speaker 1: Vapu who knew Bromman when she was a girl and
Speaker 1: Andy was just a little fella. Vapoo and the Reed
Speaker 1: family were neighbors and Vapo has strongly suspected for a
Speaker 1: long time that John killed Broman In May nineteen ninety three, John,
Speaker 1: of course, emphatically denies wrongdoing. When Crystal posted on Facebook
Speaker 1: about a purported serial killer being responsible. Instead, Vapo replied
Speaker 1: with three emojis. They were laughing emojis. Crystel's younger sister,
Speaker 1: Lauren was appalled, and as with Crystal voice, actor will
Speaker 1: read how she responded.
Speaker 5: These are Lauren's words. It's not her voice.
Speaker 9: It's all just entertainment for people like you, isn't it?
Speaker 9: Three laughing emojis? Is that one for each of Bromwin's daughters,
Speaker 9: who you know will see this. Too many gutless keyboard
Speaker 9: bullies who think they're detective heroes, and too many gullible idiots. Also,
Speaker 9: Us daughters have had enough of people like you not
Speaker 9: only disrespecting us, but you're disrespecting every single one of
Speaker 9: these sixty women and their families.
Speaker 1: Crystal recently unfriended me, having sent me a Facebook request
Speaker 1: some months.
Speaker 5: Ago, but I'm not family.
Speaker 1: Maddie has always got along well with Crystal, and now
Speaker 1: they're not on speaking terms. Maddie's auntie Meghan, has been
Speaker 1: unhappy too, because her twenty one year old forensic science
Speaker 1: graduate niece spoke her mind about evidence which suggested that
Speaker 1: Megan had said things about Bromin to Detective Graham Diskin
Speaker 1: in the original police investigation. You heard this in the
Speaker 1: subscriber episodes eleven and twelve. Are you comfortable describing the
Speaker 1: impact on your own friendship with Crystal as a result
Speaker 1: of the work you've been doing trying to find out
Speaker 1: who possibly murdered her mother Bromwin. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Look, coming into this, I knew that it would be
Speaker 4: difficult with my situation. In my position, I wasn't alive
Speaker 4: when Bromwin was alive, so I'm able to kind of
Speaker 4: separate myself from the emotional impacts that Andy Michelle have
Speaker 4: and Crystal have and other family members have. Showing my
Speaker 4: opinion on what I think is the case and my
Speaker 4: opinion based on the evidence I'm seeing. With Crystal especially,
Speaker 4: I knew it would create distance. I'm trying to stay
Speaker 4: biased and stay true to myself and stay true to
Speaker 4: the evidence, and if that means that our relationship is
Speaker 4: a little bit skewed at the moment, then that's a
Speaker 4: sacrifice unwilling to make if it results in something worthwhile,
Speaker 4: and I know it won't be forever. I know that
Speaker 4: relationships can be mended, and this is just right now.
Speaker 10: I got a telephone call from Andy about this and
Speaker 10: he was a bit disappointed that this prospect had even
Speaker 10: been raised in relation to Bromin Well.
Speaker 4: I've spoken to Andy as well and Michelle, and they
Speaker 4: both expressed the disbelief that a serial killer could have
Speaker 4: been involved in Brownwin's disappearance. From what they were saying
Speaker 4: in this article, there are so many missing and murdered
Speaker 4: women from Newcastle all the way up to the border.
Speaker 4: They've come to this conclusion that it's a possibility that
Speaker 4: there could be a serial killer.
Speaker 6: A lot of these.
Speaker 4: Women were eighteen, nineteen up to twenty years old, and
Speaker 4: there were hitch hiking, which we know is not the
Speaker 4: case for Bromwyn. It was a bit of a reach.
Speaker 4: I don't think it has any connection to Bromwin's case.
Speaker 4: Everyone's got their viewpoint, everyone's got their opinion, and Crystal
Speaker 4: has hers.
Speaker 1: It's as if she is really embracing this proposition that
Speaker 1: a serial killer was responsible.
Speaker 4: I did see on Facebook that Crystal posted about this article,
Speaker 4: and she seemed very open to this idea that a
Speaker 4: serial killer could be responsible.
Speaker 1: Instead of her step Fowler.
Speaker 6: She has always been looking for other possibilities.
Speaker 4: It's hard to come to that kind of conclusion that
Speaker 4: someone so close to her could have possibly done something
Speaker 4: so terrible, Like she's kind of glad that this has
Speaker 4: come out and grouped with all these other missing and
Speaker 4: murdered women.
Speaker 1: Do you feel like you could talk to her about
Speaker 1: this and try to express the.
Speaker 6: Country, I mean, probably not.
Speaker 4: She's so against the possibility of John being possibly involved
Speaker 4: in Bromwin's disappearance. I don't think she wants to hear
Speaker 4: anything else about it. I mean, she says she is
Speaker 4: disconnected from the podcast. Her and sisters don't want anything
Speaker 4: to do with it. They they don't have any part
Speaker 4: in it. So for her family members to outright say
Speaker 4: to her, look, the possibility of a serial killer being
Speaker 4: involved in your mum's disappearance is very, very far fetched.
Speaker 6: It probably wouldn't go over well.
Speaker 4: She doesn't want her dad to be the only suspect
Speaker 4: in this case. That's what she believes, and that maybe
Speaker 4: brings her a bit more peace. That's where it becomes
Speaker 4: a really difficult situation, because you have most of the
Speaker 4: families really sitting by this one possibility of what happened
Speaker 4: when we have only ever had one suspect this entire time,
Speaker 4: we have really reviewed this entire case. No one else
Speaker 4: has popped up. But then you have Bromwin's kids who
Speaker 4: think completely differently and really just don't think that their
Speaker 4: father was involved in her disappearance, and bringing another factor
Speaker 4: like a serial killer with no real facts surrounding this
Speaker 4: serial killer.
Speaker 6: There's nothing, it's just a figment.
Speaker 4: So for the Telegraph to just group bromwent into this,
Speaker 4: it kind of creates this weird situation where it's, in
Speaker 4: my opinion, creating false hope. But what they're not considering
Speaker 4: other circumstances around her disappearance. It's just very far fetched,
Speaker 4: especially if we consider John's story of Bromwin said she
Speaker 4: needed a break and she walked out the door and
Speaker 4: got into a car. I doubt you get into a
Speaker 4: car with a serial killer. I just think that's a
Speaker 4: bit far fetch that the same night that John was
Speaker 4: in Lennox Head was the same night that a serial
Speaker 4: killer happened to be in Lennox Head and picked from
Speaker 4: went up and she was never seen again. It doesn't
Speaker 4: correlate with any of the stories that John has shared,
Speaker 4: but at the end of the day, that is not
Speaker 4: going to stop this investigation, and that is not going
Speaker 4: to change what the truth is. The truth will probably
Speaker 4: still come out, but.
Speaker 1: The tensions in the family are still there.
Speaker 4: I think closure will heal a lot of wounds with
Speaker 4: the family, and I think it will.
Speaker 6: Bring a lot of us back together, but unfortunately people
Speaker 6: will be caught in the crossfire.
Speaker 1: We know that Robin's cakes was very poorly investigated, and
Speaker 1: we know that only one person was found by the
Speaker 1: former deputy state coroner to have been possibly responsible. It
Speaker 1: actually reminds me of one part of the inquest that
Speaker 1: was held and Lynn Dawson as she was then known,
Speaker 1: was missing. She'd been missing by them for just over
Speaker 1: twenty years.
Speaker 5: I recall it.
Speaker 1: Chris Dawson's brother, who was also his solicitor, was suggesting
Speaker 1: that the serial killer Ivan Malatt may have been responsible
Speaker 1: for Lynn's disappearance. I dealt with some of this in
Speaker 1: the Teacher's Pet podcast series when we reconstructed evidence from
Speaker 1: the two thousand and three inquest. The detective Damian Lehne
Speaker 1: was in the witness box.
Speaker 11: Ivan Mullatt's monstrous appetite for sex and death marks him
Speaker 11: out as one of the country's most notorious serial killers.
Speaker 1: Did you investigate any of the suggestions that Ivan Malatt
Speaker 1: was in that area at the time.
Speaker 5: It's like saying, how long is a piece of string?
Speaker 5: Mister Dawson.
Speaker 1: Damien and the coroner believed that Peter Dawson was clutching
Speaker 1: at straws. Here. Malat's victims were raised nineteen to twenty two,
Speaker 1: and his killing spree occurred between nineteen eighty nine and
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three. He hunted in Sydney's west, far from
Speaker 1: Sydney's northern beaches and the central coast farther north.
Speaker 5: I have nothing to lead me in that area, and
Speaker 5: I have to discount it. There is nothing to suggest
Speaker 5: that mister Malatt was in Bayview on nine or ten January.
Speaker 5: He may be. I don't know that.
Speaker 1: No one knows that the lawyer tried to paint Damien
Speaker 1: as a cop suffering from tunnel vision, of being fixated
Speaker 1: on Chris Dawson as the probable killer without asking him
Speaker 1: for more facts. Why hadn't he made Ivan Mulatter suspect.
Speaker 1: Now let's go back to Glen Taylor's interview with John
Speaker 1: Winfield in the Ballona Police station. It's early August nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety eight. What about keys to the house. Do you
Speaker 1: know whether she took any keys?
Speaker 12: Has she still got them?
Speaker 5: Whether she took the keys on that night?
Speaker 12: I look, they would have been in her handbag. I
Speaker 12: guess you know.
Speaker 5: But you've never since that, Tom, You've never located anything.
Speaker 13: No.
Speaker 12: Yeah, well she's been back to the house since then,
Speaker 12: because she brought she came back to the house sometime later,
Speaker 12: I can't remember when, and she picked up clothes, and
Speaker 12: she picked up Medicare. She dropped off a Medicare check,
Speaker 12: and she would have and she didn't break into the house,
Speaker 12: so she would have had keys to get into it.
Speaker 1: Glenn Taylor circled back to John's decision to drive the
Speaker 1: kids to Sydney.
Speaker 12: What time did I decide to go? Yes, So Graham
Speaker 12: asked me this, and I sort of said to him,
Speaker 12: I bought petrol in Balliner. Would that have been long
Speaker 12: after she left? Maybe half an hour? I don't know,
Speaker 12: maybe half an hour. But the reason why is because
Speaker 12: I think I gave my bank card stuff to Graham
Speaker 12: to show him I bought petrol in Balaner on the
Speaker 12: way through at the endpole there and it showed the
Speaker 12: date on it. I think it was the next day
Speaker 12: on the date of the bank card, like the seventeenth,
Speaker 12: you know what I mean, Like the Saturday night was
Speaker 12: the sixteenth, and so obviously I bought the petrol after
Speaker 12: midnight sometime.
Speaker 1: You know, it appears that John has momentarily forgotten that
Speaker 1: he purchased fuel at eleven oh six pm something he
Speaker 1: was at pains to highlight to Andy and Michelle back
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety three when he arrived at the house
Speaker 1: in the Shire in Sydney on the afternoon of Monday
Speaker 1: May seventeen.
Speaker 5: I think there was a docket here.
Speaker 12: Yeah, there's a bank card docket. I remember he asked
Speaker 12: me about it.
Speaker 1: John volunteered that he bought petrol again at a town
Speaker 1: called Kempsey, about a four hour drive south of Ballina.
Speaker 12: See that car ran on petrol and gas. I used
Speaker 12: to I can't remember if I had it this, but
Speaker 12: I used to fill it up with petrol and gas
Speaker 12: at once. Yes, I used to only have to stop
Speaker 12: once between here and Sydney, whenever I used to go
Speaker 12: to Sydney.
Speaker 5: You know when you left with the children, did you
Speaker 5: obviously had to carry them out to the car and
Speaker 5: put them in the vehicle.
Speaker 12: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Did you take some clothes for them?
Speaker 12: Oh? Yeah, yeah, pack clothes. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Here's Michelle's recollection about that, and her account is backed
Speaker 1: up by Bromwin's half sister Melissa.
Speaker 13: It was just really, really strange that he packed up
Speaker 13: and through clothes that weren't even appropriate for Sydney weather.
Speaker 13: And inside pillowcases were just kids cloth pillow case here,
Speaker 13: in a pillowcase there, And there might have been a
Speaker 13: smallish bag of some sort. Melissa and I went shopping
Speaker 13: so they could have something to wear, because nothing in
Speaker 13: it was appropriate to wear.
Speaker 5: Did you leave any nate or anything to say that
Speaker 5: you'd taken the children? No is here any reason you didn't.
Speaker 12: Didn't think of it. I was sort of I don't know,
Speaker 12: I just didn't think of it. Just took the kids,
Speaker 12: you know.
Speaker 5: So you drove right through night?
Speaker 12: Yeah? Yeah.
Speaker 5: Do you know what time you would have arrived at Sydney.
Speaker 7: Ah?
Speaker 12: Yeah. I was going through Sydney at peak hour traffic,
Speaker 12: so usually takes me nine or ten hours, So I
Speaker 12: was probably going through Sydney, I don't know, eight in
Speaker 12: the morning, something like that, eight or nine.
Speaker 5: Can you tell me.
Speaker 12: I know the car was unregistered too, because I once
Speaker 12: I got to Sydney, I had to go straight and
Speaker 12: get a pink slip straight away and get it registered.
Speaker 1: We know that John was very careful with money. He
Speaker 1: kept a tight grip on the family finances while he
Speaker 1: was away working in Sydney. The registration on the Ford
Speaker 1: Falcon expired. John had bought the car on May seven,
Speaker 1: the year before.
Speaker 5: It is probable that the.
Speaker 1: Annual registration ran out exactly a year later, so on
Speaker 1: Friday May seven, nine days before Bromin's disappearance. It is
Speaker 1: also likely that the subject of the expired registration came
Speaker 1: up when John went to the house on the evening
Speaker 1: of Sunday May sixteen. Perhaps John expected Bromin to pay
Speaker 1: for the registration out of her own funds as she
Speaker 1: was using the car while he was away in Sydney. Crystal,
Speaker 1: as a sixteen year old, said something in her police
Speaker 1: statement to Glenn Taylor, and it could have been directly
Speaker 1: related to the expired regio.
Speaker 14: I think at one stage they went into the bedroom
Speaker 14: and they were talking in there. I remember mom and
Speaker 14: Dad were talking about on paid bills and Mum saying
Speaker 14: something along the lines about not talking about it in
Speaker 14: front of Lauren and myself. The next thing that I
Speaker 14: remember was Mum telling myself and my sister Lauren to
Speaker 14: clean our teeth and go to bed.
Speaker 5: I think we normally went to.
Speaker 14: Bed about eight thirty pm each night. After I went
Speaker 14: to bed, I heard Mum and Dad arguing in the kitchen.
Speaker 14: I could hear Mom crying at the same time. I
Speaker 14: don't recall what was being said between Mum and Dad,
Speaker 14: but I could tell that they were arguing. I could
Speaker 14: hear them arguing until I must have fell asleep. My
Speaker 14: next recollection that night was being woken by my father.
Speaker 14: Dad told me that he was taking Lauren a night
Speaker 14: to Sydney.
Speaker 1: Crystal was recalling the events surrounding John's arrival at the
Speaker 1: house and the last time she saw her mother was
Speaker 1: one of the unpaid bills the registration for the Ford Falcon.
Speaker 1: John knew on Monday May seventeen, when he arrived in
Speaker 1: Sydney after his drive through the night, that the registration
Speaker 1: had expired because he made arrangements to pay it that day.
Speaker 1: For me, this event reinforces Glenn's suspicion about John having
Speaker 1: gone into flight mode or a panic state on the
Speaker 1: Sunday night. Driving an unregistered car for some ten hours
Speaker 1: on Australia's major highway and then on roads in the
Speaker 1: nation's biggest city is risky. If there is an accident,
Speaker 1: there are serious legal consequences, but just a traffic stop
Speaker 1: would result in a hefty fine, And in nineteen ninety three,
Speaker 1: the expiry of a car's registration was obvious to the
Speaker 1: trained eye. Back then, the registration sticker was stuck to
Speaker 1: the windscreen, the expiry date was printed on the sticker.
Speaker 1: The color of the sticker would signal whether a vehicle
Speaker 1: was on the road illegally. If Bromwin had gone as
Speaker 1: John claims, he could have stayed in the house on
Speaker 1: Sandstone Crescent, allowing his two daughters to keep sleeping, and
Speaker 1: then on Monday morning he could have gone to Balner
Speaker 1: and had the car registered. Why did he decide to
Speaker 1: up and leave so suddenly, to drive through the night
Speaker 1: with all the attendant risks. He must have been shattered
Speaker 1: from having had no sleep when he set out.
Speaker 5: Can you tell me where you went to? First of all?
Speaker 5: First of all, did you go to a relative's house
Speaker 5: or friend's house, just trying to think. I went to.
Speaker 12: I don't know whether this is in order, but I
Speaker 12: know A called into my daughter at her work. I
Speaker 12: had the kids with me.
Speaker 5: Or think is that the hairdressing salon?
Speaker 12: Yeah? Yeah, I called into Michelle's place. I think I
Speaker 12: think it was Michelle or that afternoon I called into
Speaker 12: Michelle and Andrew. That's Bronwin's sister in law and brother.
Speaker 12: I called into their place that afternoon.
Speaker 5: But the first point, first person you think might have
Speaker 5: been Judy. Did you say it at the hairdressing salon?
Speaker 12: I can't remember. Probably, yeah, probably, I don't know. I
Speaker 12: can't remember where I first. And then I mean we
Speaker 12: had breakfast somewhere, and then I had to go. I
Speaker 12: went straight and got a pink well not straight, but
Speaker 12: sometime that day I got a pink slip from the
Speaker 12: service station in Crinulla, and then I went to the
Speaker 12: motor registry at and then no, I got a pink
Speaker 12: slip and a green slip from the same guy. And
Speaker 12: I went to Miranda Registry and registered the car all
Speaker 12: on that day the first day I got there, because
Speaker 12: the car had no REGI on it.
Speaker 1: John has failed to mention a very important stop that
Speaker 1: he made after his purported visit to the salon it
Speaker 1: which Jodie worked on that Monday morning. He has failed
Speaker 1: to disclose to the detectives in the ball and a
Speaker 1: police station that in fact, he went to the home
Speaker 1: of his former wife, Jenny Mason, but she was out
Speaker 1: shopping and John implored her mother in law, a woman
Speaker 1: whom he had never met before, to take the two
Speaker 1: girls for several hours so that he could go and
Speaker 1: do something. Michelle and Andy Reid were shocked when they
Speaker 1: discovered this stopover as a result of good detective work
Speaker 1: by Glenn Taylor.
Speaker 13: That blew me away, loom me away.
Speaker 5: But he didn't tell you that.
Speaker 13: No, these kids, they would never have met Jenny, let
Speaker 13: alone Jenny's.
Speaker 5: Mother in law.
Speaker 13: He made out that he come to Sydney, and he
Speaker 13: come to us bombshell.
Speaker 6: That was to us.
Speaker 1: The natural thing to do would have been to go
Speaker 1: to Bromwin's brother and law. Course, but he went to
Speaker 1: his ex wife's home.
Speaker 13: The mother in law was down visiting. He had no
Speaker 13: idea who this random bloke was.
Speaker 1: Here's the former detective Sergeant Glenn Taylor talking to me
Speaker 1: during the production of this episode sixteen.
Speaker 5: There was certainly a lot of things we didn't know
Speaker 5: in a lot of things he didn't reveal during the interview,
Speaker 5: the things like his movements when he first got down
Speaker 5: to Sydney, or he was extremely vague in the interview. Yes,
Speaker 5: there had been five years, but some things, I mean
Speaker 5: you just think, well, how could.
Speaker 1: You forget that?
Speaker 5: No mention of going to the ex wife's home and
Speaker 5: two kids in pajamas, I mean you think that would
Speaker 5: have to be still fresh in your mind even after
Speaker 5: five years.
Speaker 1: It was such an unusual thing for him to do,
Speaker 1: to turn up at his ex wife's place when the interview,
Speaker 1: we weren't aware of that.
Speaker 5: Would you never know that?
Speaker 1: These people alone?
Speaker 5: We had to get more information about here we'd been
Speaker 5: previously married to you, and then we had to work
Speaker 5: out how we're going to contact these people shift they'd
Speaker 5: be willing to be interviewed.
Speaker 1: And yes, I mean, why would you do that? Why
Speaker 1: would you go there? Why would you go the ex
Speaker 1: wif's place?
Speaker 5: Why wouldn't you go to the immediate family members, go
Speaker 5: to Michelle and Andrews and give them a ring and say, look,
Speaker 5: I'm in a dilama Bromin's taken off for a couple
Speaker 5: of weeks. Let me with the kids, can't your gob out.
Speaker 5: But the woman that was there, he'd never met her before.
Speaker 5: The kids point for me with her. I think it
Speaker 5: was the mother in law of the ex wife from
Speaker 5: the new partner. Lady had never let the keys or him.
Speaker 5: They're in pajamas and hardy clothes with them to change
Speaker 5: them into, and he'd not come back for quite a
Speaker 5: few hours, so we said quite a few hours in Sydney,
Speaker 5: And again we didn't want to be aggressive with in
Speaker 5: the interview. And of course he's there voluntarily as a witness,
Speaker 5: but he's not really disclosing a great deal at all
Speaker 5: that where he went to and what he did.
Speaker 1: I think he'd already been to see Jodi at that state.
Speaker 1: He said he went to see JD but we don't
Speaker 1: have any proof. So he sad several hours on his own. Someday.
Speaker 1: Have you wondered or questioned since discovering his movements why
Speaker 1: he would have omitted such an unforgettable thing as to
Speaker 1: the visit to his ex wife's house. I think he
Speaker 1: wanted to hopefully we don't discover what he did, which
Speaker 1: movements and all that day. I agree, But.
Speaker 5: Why that's probably only an answer that John Winfield knows.
Speaker 1: Why Why is he trying to distance the police from
Speaker 1: his movements on that Monday in Sydney when he's driving
Speaker 1: and he gets rid of the children at his ex
Speaker 1: wife's mother in law's place. Why does he not want
Speaker 1: you to discover this? That's what I'm curious and auspicious about.
Speaker 5: I'm curious. I think I've thought about that since nineteen
Speaker 5: ninety eight. Why did he do that?
Speaker 1: There's so many things. And you've seen him around Lennox
Speaker 1: in recent days and weeks, seending a number of times.
Speaker 1: His green station wagon he's getting in.
Speaker 5: He's good friends with a concrete He just lives around
Speaker 5: the corner from us. He's a regular visitor, both myself
Speaker 5: and my wife in her own cars, within five minutes
Speaker 5: of each other, both your one and home of the day.
Speaker 5: And he was seated in his car with his cap
Speaker 5: on and outside the concrete his house.
Speaker 1: He happened to stare at me, and then he stared
Speaker 1: at my wife. As coming to the street, Glenn Taylor
Speaker 1: arrived seeing John out driving on another very recent day, we.
Speaker 5: Just happened to come up behind his car and I said, oh,
Speaker 5: what he's doing.
Speaker 1: I'll just be interested to see where he's going.
Speaker 5: And he went left and then he just went left, left, left,
Speaker 5: and then he came right back. Commander, Well, at first scene,
Speaker 5: I mean town a couple of weeks ago, his tunne
Speaker 5: of a trailer, and I think he's sort of watching
Speaker 5: his back all the time.
Speaker 1: Do you think he was deploying samanti surveillance?
Speaker 5: For sure? It was classic Andy surbilance and then after
Speaker 5: one surbilance on suspects numerous times in my career, both
Speaker 5: as a police officer and also a private investigator, and
Speaker 5: it might be just an innocent person behind him to
Speaker 5: go in the same direction, but he'd probably pull over
Speaker 5: and think someone's falling in a registry office.
Speaker 1: Four vehicles in the Southern Shire was in Miranda, and
Speaker 1: John was asked by the detectives when he went there.
Speaker 12: It was in the afternoon. I suppose did you.
Speaker 5: Try ringing the family home at Lenox Head during the
Speaker 5: course off of state.
Speaker 12: I don't know if I did personally, but I probably
Speaker 12: when we went and visited Andrew and Michelle that afternoon,
Speaker 12: probably we tried to ring. Then I suppose and the
Speaker 12: phone was off the hook.
Speaker 5: Right, Okay, when you go to that night to stay,
Speaker 5: who were you staying.
Speaker 12: With with my daughter Jodie her place?
Speaker 5: Jady was living in Sydney at that stage.
Speaker 12: Yeah, I stayed in that She was at a place
Speaker 12: called I think it was Marlowe Road, a unit in
Speaker 12: Marlowe Road.
Speaker 5: Where did the children sleep?
Speaker 12: Yeah, they were sleeping on the floor.
Speaker 1: The strong recollection of Michelle and Andy Reid, however, is
Speaker 1: that the children and John stayed at their house. John
Speaker 1: didn't stay the whole time, though.
Speaker 5: So you think you tried to ring the family home
Speaker 5: at Lenox Head from Michelle Rhid's plug.
Speaker 12: Yeah, they'll be able to verify that because I know
Speaker 12: Andrew well, it was their phone. I think that Andrew
Speaker 12: was the one that rang first and the phone was engaged.
Speaker 5: You know when you took the children to Sydney. Yeah,
Speaker 5: how long was it your intention for them to stay
Speaker 5: in Sydney for? Oh?
Speaker 12: They I can't remember having any intention, really, any intention
Speaker 12: at all.
Speaker 5: That recall about the conversation with Bromwin about her having
Speaker 5: a break from the children.
Speaker 12: I know someone said that about that in the letter.
Speaker 12: I think she might have said she wanted a break.
Speaker 12: She was, Oh, I really can't remember. Honestly, I can't.
Speaker 12: I really can't remember. I can't remember what we talked about.
Speaker 1: Here John distanced himself again from what he had previously
Speaker 1: told a number of people about what Bromwin purportedly told him.
Speaker 13: We were standing on our little front Feranda just to here,
Speaker 13: you know, he said, oh, Brolin left me, and I went, oh, okay.
Speaker 6: He was like jittery and all of that.
Speaker 13: And then he said, well, actually she needed a break.
Speaker 13: She's going on a holiday. And I thought to myself,
Speaker 13: is she on a holiday or.
Speaker 5: Has she left him? Like, in my head, I'm thinking
Speaker 5: that's weird.
Speaker 13: It's just my nature to be a little bit suspicious
Speaker 13: and stuff.
Speaker 5: But to your knowledge, she had already left it.
Speaker 13: And then he switched it to she needed a break,
Speaker 13: she needs a break, and she's going to get her
Speaker 13: head together for her and so he brought the kids
Speaker 13: to sitting.
Speaker 1: It is as if John no longer wants to own
Speaker 1: responsibility for these things. Instead, I think that he wants
Speaker 1: the detective to focus on Bromwin's own written words about
Speaker 1: a break. You heard in episode ten that the break
Speaker 1: Bromwin had briefly written about was her plan to visit
Speaker 1: her mother, Barbara and her grandmother. Here's Bromwin's mother's sister,
Speaker 1: Auntie Jan talking about that. One of the things that
Speaker 1: is written down by Bromman in these papers that she
Speaker 1: wrote before she disappeared was that she was going to
Speaker 1: take a break and that she'd be coming back and
Speaker 1: should be fine.
Speaker 6: That's probably when she was going to mums to Hobart.
Speaker 13: Before she rang mum, she'd spoken to Barb a couple
Speaker 13: of times regarding what was going on, and bab was
Speaker 13: quite distressed about it.
Speaker 5: And then she rang Mum and then asked her first
Speaker 5: some money.
Speaker 6: That the plan was, according to my mum, that she
Speaker 6: was coming over to Hobart.
Speaker 5: So you didn't have any sect thing in your mind
Speaker 5: that you were going to be sitting for a week
Speaker 5: or two weeks.
Speaker 12: Or not really, no, No, I just sort of went,
Speaker 12: you know, sort of like I said, it may have
Speaker 12: been school holidays. I can't remember. I really can't remember
Speaker 12: that time.
Speaker 5: What did you do in you know, over that ten days.
Speaker 12: Or so, probably just hang about just sort of sightseeing
Speaker 12: and everything, you know.
Speaker 1: Now, according to the builder Glenn Webster, who had employed
Speaker 1: John as a bricklayer. John was back on the job
Speaker 1: doing work for Glenn at what was then a relatively
Speaker 1: isolated building site in Illawong during this period when John
Speaker 1: was back in Sydney with the girls. Here's what Glenn
Speaker 1: Webster put in his statement in September nineteen ninety eight
Speaker 1: when Detective Sergeant Glenn Taylor spoke to him.
Speaker 15: It didn't take long before John was back in Sydney.
Speaker 15: It may have only been two or three days that
Speaker 15: he'd been absent.
Speaker 12: I recall that he.
Speaker 15: Came to my home driving a white Falcon Sedan. He
Speaker 15: had with him his two girls, Crystal and Lauren. From memory,
Speaker 15: John and the girls stayed with us at our home for.
Speaker 12: One or two days.
Speaker 15: I don't recall the reasons John gave the girls with him.
Speaker 15: I probably would have asked him why he brought the
Speaker 15: children to Sydney, but at this point I don't remember
Speaker 15: what he told me. I don't have any recollection of
Speaker 15: John mentioning anything about Bronwyn After he came with the girls.
Speaker 15: I think he organized some other people to look after
Speaker 15: the girls whilst he did a bit more work on
Speaker 15: my house. I vaguely recall him telling me that he
Speaker 15: wasn't able to finish the job. I don't recall what reasons,
Speaker 15: if any, he gave for not being able to finish
Speaker 15: the job.
Speaker 1: John's failure to mention the work that he did at
Speaker 1: Glenn's house might be a coincidence. He might have forgotten
Speaker 1: in the same way that he might have forgotten the
Speaker 1: very unusual decision he made to visit his former wife's house. Alternatively,
Speaker 1: those two omissions could be deliberate avoidance, evidence of John
Speaker 1: having deliberately edited part of the reality of that day
Speaker 1: to minimize scrutiny.
Speaker 5: Why was it.
Speaker 1: Because he did not want to draw attention to his
Speaker 1: movements that day and to the house that he had
Speaker 1: been building in Illawan in the Shire where a concrete
Speaker 1: poor was imminent.
Speaker 5: Did you try to ring Bromley on occasions?
Speaker 12: Well, we found out like the phone was engaged for
Speaker 12: some reason. He was engaged for probably a couple of days, right,
Speaker 12: So I rang my next door neighbor and got him
Speaker 12: to get into the house. He broke a back window
Speaker 12: and just had to look inside the house, you know,
Speaker 12: And that's when he found out the phone was off
Speaker 12: the hook. And he was the one he told us
Speaker 12: who was that Murray Nolan.
Speaker 16: So I've got the court. He said, would you mind
Speaker 16: going up the house? Would you mind going up to
Speaker 16: the house and breaking in for me. There's a glass
Speaker 16: panel next to the back door. He said, put your
Speaker 16: hand open the door and get in. And I said
Speaker 16: that's fine.
Speaker 1: I think I'll do that.
Speaker 16: He said, yeah, because I've been trying to ring Bromlin
Speaker 16: and I want you to little see the robins there.
Speaker 16: Because I've been ringing, I'm getting all answer. John said
Speaker 16: to me, I'll ring you back in twenty minutes. So
Speaker 16: I'm Sussagan.
Speaker 5: You never left the phone off the hook after you
Speaker 5: left the house, did you?
Speaker 12: No, no, no, no. I only made those two calls earlier,
Speaker 12: like what Graham said, after I had left with the
Speaker 12: kids at what eleven o'clockish. Apparently she had come back
Speaker 12: to the house and made that zero zero five five number.
Speaker 12: That's what that's where Graham had established anyway, because it
Speaker 12: was the same number as she'd been ringing on her
Speaker 12: phone bill at forty two Byron Street, and that from
Speaker 12: my memory, that zero zero five five number was made
Speaker 12: in the early hours of the next morning. But that's
Speaker 12: only what Graham told me. I don't know, okay, I
Speaker 12: never even saw the phone bill.
Speaker 5: At a certain point in time, did you decide to
Speaker 5: come back to Lennox Head with.
Speaker 12: The kids, Yeah, we came back and tell me when
Speaker 12: that gate was ge well, it would be in there
Speaker 12: and whatever it was, that's the day.
Speaker 5: I think it was around about approximately two weeks.
Speaker 12: Okay, well that's what it was. Yeah.
Speaker 5: Did you drive direct reach here the family home?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 12: Yeah, I think so. No one was there. The back
Speaker 12: window had a piece of ply over it, you know,
Speaker 12: because it had been broken. There's glass all through the
Speaker 12: house because Murray he broke the window, but he had
Speaker 12: a bad back of the time, so he didn't bother
Speaker 12: cleaning up. There was a medicare check on the front,
Speaker 12: not the front, the kitchen bench, on the island bench
Speaker 12: right a medicare check sitting there, signed and it was
Speaker 12: a check.
Speaker 5: Signed by who her? And you believe that chick was
Speaker 5: definitely not at the house at time when you left.
Speaker 12: Definitely not. I know it wasn't there when I left.
Speaker 12: No way, have you any idea when it was dated?
Speaker 5: The check?
Speaker 12: Well, it's in it's in Graham stuff. There are you
Speaker 12: willing to give us that check? Again, Sure, I'll give
Speaker 12: it back to you. Well, I don't know if I'll
Speaker 12: give it back to you, but I'll give you a
Speaker 12: photostat copy, you know.
Speaker 1: John then described dealing with the furniture and the other
Speaker 1: contents of the house. He estimated that ninety percent of
Speaker 1: what Bromin had taken away when she left Sandstone Crescent
Speaker 1: had been brought back when she returned to the house
Speaker 1: and started moving back in on Friday, May fourteen.
Speaker 12: And she left the rest down there, you know, and
Speaker 12: the landlord put it in the storage place in one
Speaker 12: of her garages out the back, you know, and eventually
Speaker 12: she gave it back to me. Right, So I got
Speaker 12: it all. There was a few pots and pans, There
Speaker 12: was bags of clothes. There was just a lot of
Speaker 12: crap that she left there, you know. So over a
Speaker 12: period of time, I carted that stuff up and just
Speaker 12: put it in a pile inside the garage, right, And
Speaker 12: then I took the kids to Sydney. Right. So I
Speaker 12: went to Sydney twice, you know. I took the kids
Speaker 12: to Sydney and we came back, right, and then we
Speaker 12: went again.
Speaker 5: The first time you come back, did you report her
Speaker 5: missing to the police?
Speaker 12: I took the kids to Sydney, Yes, came back with
Speaker 12: by was it two weeks later, Yes, and then reported
Speaker 12: her missing downstairs to the lady policewoman.
Speaker 5: Yes.
Speaker 1: Devan Murray Nolan have told me how they recalled the
Speaker 1: lead up to this.
Speaker 7: There are certain things I do remember exactly what I
Speaker 7: said and what it was said. And he stood on
Speaker 7: the back Brandy here and we're chatting, and I said, John,
Speaker 7: I am really concerned about Bromin.
Speaker 6: We need to report her missing. No, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 6: I'm not going to do that sip for John. No
Speaker 6: one's hurt from us. I'm really concerned about it. You
Speaker 6: need to report her missing.
Speaker 7: Him being the next akin, I thought, well, he asked
Speaker 7: to door anyway, so no, he was not going to
Speaker 7: do it.
Speaker 5: He was just.
Speaker 6: Artamently no no, no, no, no.
Speaker 7: No, no, it's all good, it's all lood Ya should
Speaker 7: come back and all this, And I'm like thinking, he doesn't.
Speaker 5: Want her report. Did this scene composed?
Speaker 1: Yeah, not at all concerned.
Speaker 7: And I thought, I'm free to hear about this woman
Speaker 7: because as I said, no mobile phone's back then, so
Speaker 7: you couldn't find anybody.
Speaker 6: I thought, where is she?
Speaker 7: I thought, maybe she's done something to herself. I said,
Speaker 7: all right, John, it's like this. If you don't report
Speaker 7: the missing, I will, and he's gone, no, No, if
Speaker 7: anyone's going to do it, it'll be me. I said, right,
Speaker 7: And we were at home here and you can correct
Speaker 7: me if I'm wrong here.
Speaker 6: But he either came down or irraineus came now.
Speaker 5: He came downhall.
Speaker 7: He said, I'm going into report problem missing, and why
Speaker 7: do you come up and watch the kids? And I said, yeah, sure, yeah,
Speaker 7: all right, okay, and I think you went up because
Speaker 7: I say here with our kids, and you ended up
Speaker 7: going up there watching.
Speaker 1: The two girls.
Speaker 5: They were in a bit, weren't they.
Speaker 7: He did say something like I want to report this
Speaker 7: well as fresh in my mind.
Speaker 6: I'm thinking he's had time to contrupt some story.
Speaker 1: So he went in and.
Speaker 7: He reported and missing that night, and I think you
Speaker 7: said him, why don't you go in the morning, John,
Speaker 7: And that's when he said, now, I want to do
Speaker 7: it now, wants fresh in my mind, which was odd
Speaker 7: in himself, but he'd probably been near full well as
Speaker 7: Nur Detective Sarah, and I don't know it would have
Speaker 7: been just the constable on the desk which was Julie
Speaker 7: Donovan at the time.
Speaker 1: In episode six, you heard about some of the details
Speaker 1: which were written down by the then Constable Julie Donovan
Speaker 1: in the missing person report which she filled in that
Speaker 1: night with information coming from John Winfield. I've been studying
Speaker 1: a one page document typed in Ballener police station at
Speaker 1: the time John Winfield reported his wife as missing. It
Speaker 1: is an account of the purported facts and circumstances as
Speaker 1: John explained them to the police officer who was on duty,
Speaker 1: Julie Donovan. Officer Donovan's name and badge number are on
Speaker 1: this document. Each relevant section has been filled with black type,
Speaker 1: as you would expect. It's dated May twenty seven.
Speaker 11: Person of interest was last seen at nine thirty pm
Speaker 11: on sixteen May nineteen ninety three, after making several phone
Speaker 11: calls from the above address after husband Jonathan was in Sydney.
Speaker 11: Apparently the jew had been officially separated since twenty two
Speaker 11: March nineteen ninety three. On the night of sixteen May,
Speaker 11: the person of interest had a conversation with her ex
Speaker 11: husband and informed him that she was leaving. She stated
Speaker 11: that she was leaving and going for a couple of
Speaker 11: weeks holiday.
Speaker 1: In the first notification to police. John has asserted that
Speaker 1: bromwin had said she was having a break of a fortnight,
Speaker 1: whereas he told Broman's brother Andy and sister in law Michelle,
Speaker 1: as well as Debbie and Murray that she was going
Speaker 1: for a break of a few days.
Speaker 7: I got a phone call from Julie Donovan asking me
Speaker 7: to come in and have a chat because John give
Speaker 7: him my name as somebody to talk to Janise Barnard
Speaker 7: and I winning on the Saturday the following Saturday and
Speaker 7: met with Julie Donovan, who was just a death comnstable.
Speaker 7: And then when we started to give our version of
Speaker 7: what we've been told from him, she went on says
Speaker 7: nothing what is told me? This is going to have
Speaker 7: to go upstairs. So it went up to the detectis.
Speaker 1: Julie Donovan's name is featured in a number of the
Speaker 1: entries in the police running sheets in nineteen ninety three
Speaker 1: because of some of the early inquiries she made with
Speaker 1: detectives Discan and Wayne Temby. Then, now let's return to
Speaker 1: the police interview between Glen Taylor and John Winfield.
Speaker 12: All right, and then I ran up all her stuff
Speaker 12: that she left down at forty two Byron Street, and
Speaker 12: I put it all in the garage and then maybe
Speaker 12: maybe that was the next school holidays or something, or
Speaker 12: so we went to Sydney again for two weeks, and
Speaker 12: it was during that two weeks that she came back,
Speaker 12: took clothes and left a Medicare check.
Speaker 5: This is the second occasion. Yeah, it wasn't the first
Speaker 5: time you come back that you saw the Medicare chip.
Speaker 12: No, No, it's the second time. It's all in. It's
Speaker 12: all in the report there.
Speaker 5: Well, I'll certainly have a look at that.
Speaker 1: It's hard to know now what report John Winfield is
Speaker 1: referring to. If it is a reference to a comprehensive
Speaker 1: report by the detective Graham Diskin in nineteen ninety three,
Speaker 1: we have not seen it. Glenn Taylor doesn't recall such
Speaker 1: a document, but you have heard several references to a
Speaker 1: Medicare check. Andy and Michelle Reid and Andy's sister Kim
Speaker 1: Marshall are confident that the evidence around this Medicare check
Speaker 1: is very important. John relies on this check to claim
Speaker 1: that Bromman has come back to the house. It's another
Speaker 1: claim of proof of life. Like the purported call to
Speaker 1: the hairdressing salon. We're going to look at this as
Speaker 1: well as accusations that someone has forged Bromwin's signature on
Speaker 1: that check. You'll hear about it in the next episode.
Speaker 1: John told the detective in nineteen ninety eight that after
Speaker 1: putting the girls back into school, on his return to
Speaker 1: Lenox in late May nineteen ninety three, he.
Speaker 12: Went around to a few of her girlfriends, spoke to
Speaker 12: them to find out as much as I could find out.
Speaker 12: Reported her missing down here to the lady policewoman.
Speaker 5: At that time when you reported her missing, Yeah, was
Speaker 5: there any clothes of hers missing at that stage that
Speaker 5: you noticed?
Speaker 12: Not that I noticed, Not that I noticed. And during
Speaker 12: that time, I don't know what period of time, it
Speaker 12: might have been three or four weeks, I don't know,
Speaker 12: but this Shirley Taylor eventually gave me back everything that
Speaker 12: was left down in the wrenched premises, right, you know,
Speaker 12: there was you know, there was bags of clothes, and
Speaker 12: there was pots and pans everything. She eventually gave them
Speaker 12: to me, you know, and I put them all in
Speaker 12: the garage, put them in a big pile. And then
Speaker 12: shortly after, probably a couple of weeks later, I don't know.
Speaker 12: I went to Sydney again for two weeks and it
Speaker 12: was during that time that she came back. Left the
Speaker 12: check on the kitchen island. It took a couple of
Speaker 12: bags of clothes.
Speaker 5: How did you know it was her?
Speaker 12: Well, I don't That's what I said to Graham. I said,
Speaker 12: I don't know it's her, But I mean, no one
Speaker 12: knows it's her because no one saw her. All I
Speaker 12: know is that the house wasn't broken into.
Speaker 5: But the indication is the check was dated after the
Speaker 5: sixteenth to May.
Speaker 1: John didn't confirm the date of the check. He said
Speaker 1: that the check was originally posted to Bromwin's temporary address
Speaker 1: at the flat in Byron Street. That flat had lockable
Speaker 1: mailboxes or the tenants before she disappeared, Bromwin hadn't returned
Speaker 1: her keys to Shirley Taylor. John's suggestion to Detective Glenn
Speaker 1: Taylor and They're no relation was that after disappearing, Bromwin
Speaker 1: had gone back to her old flat, opened the mailbox,
Speaker 1: seen the check, signed it, and brought it to the
Speaker 1: house on Sandstone Crescent and left it on the table there.
Speaker 1: According to John's version, she did all of this without
Speaker 1: being seen by anyone and without leaving any note to
Speaker 1: explain what was going on.
Speaker 5: Did you feel it's strange act she hadn't made any
Speaker 5: attempt to contact the children.
Speaker 12: Oh, sure, you know, I mean it doesn't. I mean
Speaker 12: I used to think about it all the time, But
Speaker 12: I mean it's sort of like I said, I've sort
Speaker 12: of moved on in life and I don't think about
Speaker 12: it anymore.
Speaker 5: To tell you the truth, you mea just some photo
Speaker 5: aggress that might have been wishing.
Speaker 12: Yeah, family photos? Were they in frames or well? See,
Speaker 12: we've got in the Loundes room. There's a big buffet right,
Speaker 12: drawers on one side and three doors on the other
Speaker 12: and four drawers, and that's where all the photos are kept,
Speaker 12: you know.
Speaker 5: And some of those were missing.
Speaker 12: Yeah, I couldn't tell you which photos.
Speaker 5: Are you aware of a phone call allegedly made by
Speaker 5: Bronwin to Jerdy's hairdressing seller.
Speaker 12: Yeah, I heard about that.
Speaker 5: What did Jeredy have to say about that?
Speaker 12: Well, Jodie didn't take the call. Some other girl took it.
Speaker 12: Oh I can't. I can't remember her name. I never
Speaker 12: spoke to the girl personally, Jody told me. I told Andrew.
Speaker 12: And Andrew drove down to the hairdressing shop and spoke
Speaker 12: to this girl personally, that's Andrew her brother Glenn Taylor.
Speaker 1: Asked whether any other things from the house had gone missing.
Speaker 5: No, you have never had any contact with your wife. No, No,
Speaker 5: to your knowledge about it. Count that's your operator to
Speaker 5: the bank where there was about one thousand or two
Speaker 5: thousand of the bank has never been operated.
Speaker 12: Well, last time I spoke to Graham, which was quite
Speaker 12: a number of years ago, he said it hadn't been so,
Speaker 12: but I haven't checked up. I've got authority to check
Speaker 12: up on that, so they wouldn't tell me anyway, you know.
Speaker 12: But well I spoke to Graham probably, I don't know
Speaker 12: when it was. It was a few years ago now,
Speaker 12: and he said it hadn't been touched.
Speaker 1: John was then asked about something he had raised with
Speaker 1: the detectives before the police interview had started. Before the
Speaker 1: tape was rolling about a woman called Diane in Sydney.
Speaker 12: Well, she rang me. I remember when it was because
Speaker 12: I just got ross River fever, That's how I remember.
Speaker 12: And it was January of ninety six and it was
Speaker 12: in the mid afternoon and she rang me and I
Speaker 12: was just she took me by surprise, you know, and
Speaker 12: virtually said that she reckons that she saw her in Cronulla,
Speaker 12: but she ignored her this.
Speaker 5: Diane has alleged that she saw Brawman in Cronella in
Speaker 5: around early nineteen ninety six.
Speaker 12: Well, that's why I rang, like when you rang me,
Speaker 12: yes today, I rang Diane to sort of clarify it,
Speaker 12: you know. I said, listen, there's probably going to be
Speaker 12: a guy called Glen Taylor give you a ring. And
Speaker 12: I said to her, do you remember when it was?
Speaker 12: And she said she thought it was in the winter.
Speaker 12: And I said, why do you say that? And she said,
Speaker 12: because I remember she was wearing warm sort of clothes.
Speaker 12: I said, I'll tell Glen Taylor and you can sort
Speaker 12: it out with him, you know.
Speaker 5: Okay, to your knowledge, besides this possible signing by Diane,
Speaker 5: has it ever been any other?
Speaker 12: No, not that, not that I can remember. I mean,
Speaker 12: there's been sort of Oh I can't remember. Every time
Speaker 12: I heard a story. I used to ring Graham up
Speaker 12: and tell him. But you know there's stories going around everywhere,
Speaker 12: left right and center.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 5: Have you fallen an opinion of what's happened to your boy? No?
Speaker 12: I don't think about it. I think about it. I
Speaker 12: just say that one day I hope she'll pop up
Speaker 12: because her mother did the same thing and her mother
Speaker 12: can you.
Speaker 5: Tell us about that? I know you mentioned that her
Speaker 5: mother suffered from schizophrenia, still does.
Speaker 1: Yeah, apparently there.
Speaker 5: Was a circumstance many years ago when Bromwin's mother went
Speaker 5: missing as well.
Speaker 12: Yeah, we're missing at now. This is from Bromwin, and
Speaker 12: I have clarified it with her brother. She's my mother
Speaker 12: in law really, but I only met the woman once
Speaker 12: in my life. You know, Bronwin and her didn't really
Speaker 12: have a very close relationship. You know, they sort of
Speaker 12: because I think of her mother's illness, you know, they
Speaker 12: sort of didn't have much to do with each other.
Speaker 12: So consequently, I've only met this woman once in my life,
Speaker 12: and my two daughters, Crystal and Lauren, have never met
Speaker 12: their grandmother, you know, because of that reason. I think
Speaker 12: she sort of tried to sort of keep her away
Speaker 12: from the kids, you know. But yeah, apparently when Andrew
Speaker 12: Andrew was two and Brown was seven, she just left
Speaker 12: the family home and ended up going to England. Came
Speaker 12: back twelve years later with another child.
Speaker 5: Do you know any information about a clearvoyant.
Speaker 12: Yeah, that's you know. Apparently she was seeing a clairvoyant Kriikey.
Speaker 12: I can't remember the name, some guy that lives at
Speaker 12: Sunrise Place at Lennox Head. She'd been seeing him for
Speaker 12: quite a while, apparently, and at one stage she said
Speaker 12: to one of her girlfriends that she thought this clairvoyan
Speaker 12: was her father, you know, sort of like I said,
Speaker 12: her father's already passed away years ago.
Speaker 5: Were you aware she was seeing a clear voyant at
Speaker 5: the time? What did you find out?
Speaker 12: Sorry? No, I only found out later on from her girlfriends.
Speaker 12: You know. Apparently she used to pay this bloke thirty
Speaker 12: dollars a pop.
Speaker 1: The detective asked about the whereabouts of Jacko too. You
Speaker 1: will recall that after Bromwin and John separated, she told
Speaker 1: Gary Jackson that she was interested in him. He spoke
Speaker 1: in episode five, we kiss and that's all we did.
Speaker 14: We did.
Speaker 8: I loved her and it was awesome sexual because we
Speaker 8: didn't have sex.
Speaker 5: Who was bore them?
Speaker 1: Friendship?
Speaker 5: You know?
Speaker 1: But John was always ran Bush. We couldn't gold anywhere.
Speaker 5: John was out there sitting in his watching us. John Kilga.
Speaker 5: But they can't pour in the body.
Speaker 1: The police didn't do their job.
Speaker 12: No, never saw him again, never heard from him again.
Speaker 12: And the clairvoyant I went around it his place. I
Speaker 12: don't think I ever met him actually, and then I
Speaker 12: know Graham saw him a couple of times.
Speaker 5: I think, if necessary, would you give the police authority
Speaker 5: to examine your bank accounts in relation to your bank cards,
Speaker 5: just in relation to transaction reports?
Speaker 12: Yeah, yeah, no problem.
Speaker 5: Have you got any other information that you can provide
Speaker 5: us with at this point in time? No, no, okay.
Speaker 5: You mentioned earlier in the interview that you were very
Speaker 5: concerned about the police approaching the media.
Speaker 12: Yeah, yeah, yeah, very concerned.
Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, it's an opportunity.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 5: You said that you don't want the police to provide
Speaker 5: details to the media about the disappearance of your wart.
Speaker 12: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Can you tell us now again about that?
Speaker 12: Well, like I said before, from my recollection, there's been
Speaker 12: probably five or six media attempts and they range from
Speaker 12: newspaper and photo and the Brisbane paper, radio casts in Sydney,
Speaker 12: newspaper article here locally, television here locally, and radio here locally.
Speaker 12: And when all that was going on, my kids went
Speaker 12: through a bad time at school, and I mean over
Speaker 12: the past five years, they've adjusted quite well, and I
Speaker 12: just want to keep it that way.
Speaker 5: You understand that the media is available too in trying
Speaker 5: to locate missing people.
Speaker 12: I realized that, but I mean, I guess after all
Speaker 12: avenues were exhausted and all of the investigations, I might
Speaker 12: reconsider it. But at this stage, Okay, do you agree
Speaker 12: I told you that I gave you a verbal assurance
Speaker 12: that there won't be be a new decision media outlets
Speaker 12: until we exhaust our current inquiries, and that entail speaking
Speaker 12: to all family members and anyone else. Yeah, and then
Speaker 12: before I'm making you further decision, I would consult you
Speaker 12: your legal advisor. Yeah, you did say that, Yes, But
Speaker 12: like I said, it's I'm really dead, dead against any
Speaker 12: more media because of what the kids, you know, because
Speaker 12: the fact that there's been plenty of media I feel,
Speaker 12: and there's been no it hasn't been successful that. I mean,
Speaker 12: maybe she doesn't want to maybe she doesn't want to
Speaker 12: come back.
Speaker 5: You know, do you think your wife might be deceased?
Speaker 12: No, No, no reason for me to think that way.
Speaker 5: So you think she's somewhere in this country under another identity.
Speaker 12: Well, well, I mean I'll tell you the truth. I
Speaker 12: reckon I could go anywhere I like and assume another identity.
Speaker 12: I don't see why anyone else can. I mean, it
Speaker 12: wouldn't be hard.
Speaker 1: Bronwyn is written and investigated by me Headley Thomas as
Speaker 1: a podcast production for The Australian. If anyone has information
Speaker 1: which may help solve this cold case, please contact me
Speaker 1: confidentially by emailing Bronwyn at the Australian dot com dot au.
Speaker 1: You can read more about this case and see a
Speaker 1: range of photographs and other artwork at the website Bronwyn
Speaker 1: podcast dot com. Our subscribers and registered users here episodes first.
Speaker 1: The production and editorial team for Bromwin includes Claire Harvey,
Speaker 1: Kristin Amiot, Joshua Burton, Bridget, Ryan Bianca, far Marcus, Katie Burns,
Speaker 1: Liam Mendez, Sean Callen, Matthew Condon and David Murray. Audio
Speaker 1: production for this podcast series is by Wasabi Wo and
Speaker 1: original theme music by Slade Gibson. We have been assisted
Speaker 1: by Madison Walsh, a relation of Bromwin Winfield. We can
Speaker 1: only do this kind of journalism with the support of
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