WEBVTT - Episode 16: A Family Divided 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:05.399 Listeners are advised that this podcast series contains course language 0:00:05.440 --> 0:00:09.000 and adult themes. This podcast series is brought to you 0:00:09.080 --> 0:00:42.879 by me Headley Thomas and The Australian. Andy Reid sounded 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:46.040 agitated when he called a few days before the release 0:00:46.080 --> 0:00:49.040 of this episode to talk about breaking news of a 0:00:49.120 --> 0:00:54.240 spate of murders and a purported serial killer. The banner 0:00:54.280 --> 0:00:58.120 headline on page one of the Sydney Daly Telegraph put 0:00:58.160 --> 0:01:03.320 it simply gone girl. The newspaper reported that a local 0:01:03.360 --> 0:01:07.160 politician was raising fears of a serial killer as sixty 0:01:07.200 --> 0:01:10.880 women had disappeared or met grisly ends in the state's 0:01:10.959 --> 0:01:15.039 north coast areas in the past thirty two years. A 0:01:15.120 --> 0:01:18.800 photograph of Bromwyn Winfield was included in a gallery of 0:01:18.880 --> 0:01:23.520 female victims. The report presented no evidence that Bromwyn had 0:01:23.560 --> 0:01:28.640 been abducted and murdered by a serial killer. Soon afterwards, 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:31.440 Maddie Walsh, who has been a great help to me 0:01:31.600 --> 0:01:35.520 this past year, spoke to Sydney Drivetime radio hosts Joel 0:01:35.600 --> 0:01:40.000 Kine and Brian Fletcher, Avid listeners of the Bromwin series. 0:01:42.760 --> 0:01:46.160 We discussed dissect and dalve into crimes of the past. 0:01:48.200 --> 0:01:53.680 Season two of Bronwyn has over four million downloads and 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:57.840 Jordi Us once again is bromwin Winfield's second cousin, the 0:01:58.000 --> 0:02:00.880 very talented young Maddi Walsh. What you've been doing is 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:03.400 unbelievable them Maddie. What's been happening in your world? 0:02:03.840 --> 0:02:07.440 There is just still so much information to dive into 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:11.840 and dig through, just working towards getting justice for Bromwell. 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:15.640 Everyone in Lennox Head is talking about it. Every week 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:17.840 more information comes out. 0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:20.480 Have most people in and around that area, to your knowledge, 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:21.399 we've heard this podcast. 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:22.519 Is that you're understanding. 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:24.400 It's been the talk of the town. 0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:27.640 I think there is only one conclusion that they are 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:31.680 all standing by, and that is her husband may have 0:02:31.800 --> 0:02:32.720 something to do with it. 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:36.200 You would imagine that the police are listening closely to 0:02:36.280 --> 0:02:38.800 this because after the Teacher's pet we know what happened. 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:40.680 Chris Dawson was down guilty. 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:43.960 Casseroted. Is there any contact with the police. 0:02:44.000 --> 0:02:47.520 Do you keep them updated, do they contact you or 0:02:47.560 --> 0:02:50.120 are they just sort of standing from afar at the moment. 0:02:50.760 --> 0:02:54.560 Sometimes they ask for information and they come and ask 0:02:54.600 --> 0:02:58.280 for interviews. With Judy Singh, who came forward in the 0:02:58.360 --> 0:03:01.600 last season about witnessing a body in the back of 0:03:01.639 --> 0:03:05.760 the car, so it is looking promising from the police perspective. 0:03:06.440 --> 0:03:07.720 I don't know if you've seen the front pages of 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:10.799 Daily Telegraph today, have you read that story saying that 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:13.960 sixty women who were brutally murder or disappeared on the 0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:17.519 New South Wales North Coast Wow in cases where the 0:03:17.560 --> 0:03:19.760 perpetrators were never caught can be revealed for the first 0:03:19.760 --> 0:03:22.360 time in fears some of the women were victims of 0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:25.000 serial killers. This has just come to light today. 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:29.440 Maddie started to hoset the serial killer theory down. 0:03:30.600 --> 0:03:33.600 Is there something you could investigate now? 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:39.280 Knowing Bromwin's case and her circumstances, the chances that a 0:03:39.400 --> 0:03:44.320 serial killer was involved in her disappearance very very minuscule 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:46.800 and just based on all the evidence I have seen 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:50.080 and what we know to be what happened to bromwhen 0:03:50.200 --> 0:03:52.440 the night she went missing and her husband being the 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:55.680 last person to see her alive, I don't think there 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:57.880 is a serial killer involved in her disappearance. 0:03:58.160 --> 0:04:00.280 I'm not saying it's not possible. 0:04:00.320 --> 0:04:03.360 However, I just don't think it's really in the cars 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:04.440 for Bronwin's. 0:04:04.040 --> 0:04:07.520 Gross John Winfield's still up there. Isn't he a bit 0:04:07.560 --> 0:04:10.360 of a recluse? I just can't fathom why he would 0:04:10.600 --> 0:04:11.640 still be there. 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:14.960 And he stays there, he knows people talk about him. 0:04:15.840 --> 0:04:19.320 She's still surfing and still living his life. 0:04:19.800 --> 0:04:22.200 Obviously, the loss of Bromwin, that's the first and foremost thing. 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:24.320 Has he something to do with it? 0:04:24.400 --> 0:04:26.320 That's a tragedy that he would be still ramming around 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:28.240 in the event that he has nothing to do with it. 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:31.000 That's a tragedy that he will be tired with that 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:33.240 sort of things. We may never know the truth of 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:36.120 his story. So the whole thing, Mattie, is just a 0:04:36.200 --> 0:04:38.320 complete travesty and tragedy. 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:42.680 The fallout from the podcast and the separate linking of 0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:47.159 Bronwin's disappearance to a supposed serial killer are taking a toll. 0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:52.520 Bronwin's eldest daughter, Crystal responded by posting on Facebook. 0:04:53.400 --> 0:04:55.320 Interesting read in today's paper? 0:04:55.880 --> 0:04:58.039 Did a serial killer kill my mom? 0:04:58.960 --> 0:05:01.040 She's one of the women listed. 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:04.440 In this article as possible victims, and it's good to 0:05:04.520 --> 0:05:06.800 see are the possibilities being explored. 0:05:07.960 --> 0:05:11.839 Sentiments like these from Crystal are difficult for Brohman's brother 0:05:12.000 --> 0:05:14.320 Andy and his wife Michelle to read. 0:05:14.520 --> 0:05:15.000 And hear. 0:05:16.000 --> 0:05:19.640 In the two subscriber episodes of eleven and twelve, you 0:05:19.760 --> 0:05:23.560 heard Crystal's perspective on the case and how Crystal lost 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:27.320 her life savings to a self proclaimed soul doctor. 0:05:28.839 --> 0:05:33.120 She was asked to purchase a large number of gold bullion, 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:38.080 and that gold bullion is no longer gold bullion. It 0:05:38.160 --> 0:05:40.880 is now actually a container full of cement. 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:43.279 Well, how does that happen? 0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:47.080 Whilst they were actually sitting with her in a park, 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:51.560 they have actually shown her a magic trick, and whilst 0:05:51.600 --> 0:05:54.599 she's been blown away by the magic trick and she's 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:59.400 not paying attention, they have switched the container that had 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:02.240 the gold in it and have actually replaced it with 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:06.800 a container of the same exact likeness and it has 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:07.320 ce mention. 0:06:07.480 --> 0:06:10.320 It is that sort of money, three hundred to three 0:06:10.400 --> 0:06:15.640 hundred and fifty thousand dollars very important and significant for Crystal. Yes, 0:06:17.800 --> 0:06:22.400 relationships are under strained. There is an elderly woman called 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:25.600 Vapu who knew Bromman when she was a girl and 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:29.679 Andy was just a little fella. Vapoo and the Reed 0:06:29.800 --> 0:06:33.960 family were neighbors and Vapo has strongly suspected for a 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:39.120 long time that John killed Broman In May nineteen ninety three, John, 0:06:39.200 --> 0:06:44.720 of course, emphatically denies wrongdoing. When Crystal posted on Facebook 0:06:44.760 --> 0:06:50.240 about a purported serial killer being responsible. Instead, Vapo replied 0:06:50.360 --> 0:06:56.680 with three emojis. They were laughing emojis. Crystel's younger sister, 0:06:56.800 --> 0:07:01.000 Lauren was appalled, and as with Crystal voice, actor will 0:07:01.040 --> 0:07:02.480 read how she responded. 0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:05.640 These are Lauren's words. It's not her voice. 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:10.240 It's all just entertainment for people like you, isn't it? 0:07:10.400 --> 0:07:14.360 Three laughing emojis? Is that one for each of Bromwin's daughters, 0:07:14.680 --> 0:07:18.680 who you know will see this. Too many gutless keyboard 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:24.080 bullies who think they're detective heroes, and too many gullible idiots. Also, 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:28.080 Us daughters have had enough of people like you not 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:32.320 only disrespecting us, but you're disrespecting every single one of 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:34.400 these sixty women and their families. 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:40.160 Crystal recently unfriended me, having sent me a Facebook request 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:41.080 some months. 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:42.640 Ago, but I'm not family. 0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:46.480 Maddie has always got along well with Crystal, and now 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:51.000 they're not on speaking terms. Maddie's auntie Meghan, has been 0:07:51.120 --> 0:07:54.920 unhappy too, because her twenty one year old forensic science 0:07:55.000 --> 0:07:58.600 graduate niece spoke her mind about evidence which suggested that 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:03.000 Megan had said things about Bromin to Detective Graham Diskin 0:08:03.200 --> 0:08:07.360 in the original police investigation. You heard this in the 0:08:07.480 --> 0:08:12.320 subscriber episodes eleven and twelve. Are you comfortable describing the 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:17.400 impact on your own friendship with Crystal as a result 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:20.520 of the work you've been doing trying to find out 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:25.120 who possibly murdered her mother Bromwin. Yeah. 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:27.720 Look, coming into this, I knew that it would be 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:32.400 difficult with my situation. In my position, I wasn't alive 0:08:32.440 --> 0:08:35.400 when Bromwin was alive, so I'm able to kind of 0:08:35.440 --> 0:08:40.439 separate myself from the emotional impacts that Andy Michelle have 0:08:40.679 --> 0:08:44.160 and Crystal have and other family members have. Showing my 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:46.680 opinion on what I think is the case and my 0:08:46.760 --> 0:08:51.160 opinion based on the evidence I'm seeing. With Crystal especially, 0:08:51.320 --> 0:08:55.360 I knew it would create distance. I'm trying to stay 0:08:55.520 --> 0:08:57.760 biased and stay true to myself and stay true to 0:08:57.800 --> 0:09:01.599 the evidence, and if that means that our relationship is 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:03.839 a little bit skewed at the moment, then that's a 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:09.480 sacrifice unwilling to make if it results in something worthwhile, 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:12.400 and I know it won't be forever. I know that 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:16.439 relationships can be mended, and this is just right now. 0:09:17.360 --> 0:09:20.480 I got a telephone call from Andy about this and 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:26.440 he was a bit disappointed that this prospect had even 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:29.160 been raised in relation to Bromin Well. 0:09:29.240 --> 0:09:33.000 I've spoken to Andy as well and Michelle, and they 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:37.560 both expressed the disbelief that a serial killer could have 0:09:37.559 --> 0:09:41.360 been involved in Brownwin's disappearance. From what they were saying 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:46.400 in this article, there are so many missing and murdered 0:09:46.400 --> 0:09:49.800 women from Newcastle all the way up to the border. 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:53.480 They've come to this conclusion that it's a possibility that 0:09:53.520 --> 0:09:54.800 there could be a serial killer. 0:09:55.240 --> 0:09:56.079 A lot of these. 0:09:55.880 --> 0:10:00.760 Women were eighteen, nineteen up to twenty years old, and 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:03.040 there were hitch hiking, which we know is not the 0:10:03.040 --> 0:10:05.200 case for Bromwyn. It was a bit of a reach. 0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:08.240 I don't think it has any connection to Bromwin's case. 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:11.760 Everyone's got their viewpoint, everyone's got their opinion, and Crystal 0:10:11.840 --> 0:10:12.400 has hers. 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:18.040 It's as if she is really embracing this proposition that 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:20.520 a serial killer was responsible. 0:10:21.280 --> 0:10:25.040 I did see on Facebook that Crystal posted about this article, 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:30.320 and she seemed very open to this idea that a 0:10:30.400 --> 0:10:32.599 serial killer could be responsible. 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:34.880 Instead of her step Fowler. 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:38.800 She has always been looking for other possibilities. 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:42.640 It's hard to come to that kind of conclusion that 0:10:42.760 --> 0:10:46.120 someone so close to her could have possibly done something 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:50.000 so terrible, Like she's kind of glad that this has 0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:52.280 come out and grouped with all these other missing and 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:52.959 murdered women. 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:56.480 Do you feel like you could talk to her about 0:10:56.480 --> 0:10:59.199 this and try to express the. 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:02.920 Country, I mean, probably not. 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:10.000 She's so against the possibility of John being possibly involved 0:11:10.040 --> 0:11:14.640 in Bromwin's disappearance. I don't think she wants to hear 0:11:15.600 --> 0:11:18.720 anything else about it. I mean, she says she is 0:11:19.080 --> 0:11:22.040 disconnected from the podcast. Her and sisters don't want anything 0:11:22.040 --> 0:11:24.720 to do with it. They they don't have any part 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:30.240 in it. So for her family members to outright say 0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:33.640 to her, look, the possibility of a serial killer being 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:37.720 involved in your mum's disappearance is very, very far fetched. 0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:40.400 It probably wouldn't go over well. 0:11:41.000 --> 0:11:44.439 She doesn't want her dad to be the only suspect 0:11:44.520 --> 0:11:48.400 in this case. That's what she believes, and that maybe 0:11:48.440 --> 0:11:51.720 brings her a bit more peace. That's where it becomes 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:56.120 a really difficult situation, because you have most of the 0:11:56.200 --> 0:11:59.679 families really sitting by this one possibility of what happened 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:04.480 when we have only ever had one suspect this entire time, 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:09.000 we have really reviewed this entire case. No one else 0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:13.040 has popped up. But then you have Bromwin's kids who 0:12:14.000 --> 0:12:17.959 think completely differently and really just don't think that their 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:23.120 father was involved in her disappearance, and bringing another factor 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:26.839 like a serial killer with no real facts surrounding this 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:27.640 serial killer. 0:12:28.200 --> 0:12:30.320 There's nothing, it's just a figment. 0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:35.200 So for the Telegraph to just group bromwent into this, 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:40.800 it kind of creates this weird situation where it's, in 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:44.599 my opinion, creating false hope. But what they're not considering 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:49.760 other circumstances around her disappearance. It's just very far fetched, 0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:53.400 especially if we consider John's story of Bromwin said she 0:12:53.520 --> 0:12:57.040 needed a break and she walked out the door and 0:12:57.080 --> 0:12:59.280 got into a car. I doubt you get into a 0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:03.199 car with a serial killer. I just think that's a 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:05.560 bit far fetch that the same night that John was 0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:07.959 in Lennox Head was the same night that a serial 0:13:08.040 --> 0:13:11.320 killer happened to be in Lennox Head and picked from 0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:13.920 went up and she was never seen again. It doesn't 0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:17.120 correlate with any of the stories that John has shared, 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:19.400 but at the end of the day, that is not 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:22.320 going to stop this investigation, and that is not going 0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:25.800 to change what the truth is. The truth will probably 0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:27.680 still come out, but. 0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:30.000 The tensions in the family are still there. 0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:33.680 I think closure will heal a lot of wounds with 0:13:33.880 --> 0:13:35.440 the family, and I think it will. 0:13:35.240 --> 0:13:39.240 Bring a lot of us back together, but unfortunately people 0:13:39.280 --> 0:13:40.679 will be caught in the crossfire. 0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:44.680 We know that Robin's cakes was very poorly investigated, and 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:49.280 we know that only one person was found by the 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:54.200 former deputy state coroner to have been possibly responsible. It 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:59.200 actually reminds me of one part of the inquest that 0:13:59.360 --> 0:14:03.040 was held and Lynn Dawson as she was then known, 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:06.600 was missing. She'd been missing by them for just over 0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:07.400 twenty years. 0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:08.880 I recall it. 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:14.479 Chris Dawson's brother, who was also his solicitor, was suggesting 0:14:14.559 --> 0:14:18.960 that the serial killer Ivan Malatt may have been responsible 0:14:19.520 --> 0:14:24.280 for Lynn's disappearance. I dealt with some of this in 0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:28.560 the Teacher's Pet podcast series when we reconstructed evidence from 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:32.960 the two thousand and three inquest. The detective Damian Lehne 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:34.200 was in the witness box. 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:41.880 Ivan Mullatt's monstrous appetite for sex and death marks him 0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:45.000 out as one of the country's most notorious serial killers. 0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:50.080 Did you investigate any of the suggestions that Ivan Malatt 0:14:50.200 --> 0:14:51.480 was in that area at the time. 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:54.520 It's like saying, how long is a piece of string? 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:55.400 Mister Dawson. 0:14:56.480 --> 0:14:59.800 Damien and the coroner believed that Peter Dawson was clutching 0:14:59.840 --> 0:15:04.440 at straws. Here. Malat's victims were raised nineteen to twenty two, 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:08.120 and his killing spree occurred between nineteen eighty nine and 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:12.840 nineteen ninety three. He hunted in Sydney's west, far from 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:16.400 Sydney's northern beaches and the central coast farther north. 0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:19.600 I have nothing to lead me in that area, and 0:15:19.640 --> 0:15:22.240 I have to discount it. There is nothing to suggest 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:25.320 that mister Malatt was in Bayview on nine or ten January. 0:15:25.720 --> 0:15:27.160 He may be. I don't know that. 0:15:27.520 --> 0:15:31.280 No one knows that the lawyer tried to paint Damien 0:15:31.320 --> 0:15:34.880 as a cop suffering from tunnel vision, of being fixated 0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:38.200 on Chris Dawson as the probable killer without asking him 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:42.120 for more facts. Why hadn't he made Ivan Mulatter suspect. 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:09.480 Now let's go back to Glen Taylor's interview with John 0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:14.240 Winfield in the Ballona Police station. It's early August nineteen 0:16:14.400 --> 0:16:18.160 ninety eight. What about keys to the house. Do you 0:16:18.200 --> 0:16:19.960 know whether she took any keys? 0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:21.360 Has she still got them? 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:24.080 Whether she took the keys on that night? 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:27.400 I look, they would have been in her handbag. I 0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:28.040 guess you know. 0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:31.720 But you've never since that, Tom, You've never located anything. 0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:32.400 No. 0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:36.160 Yeah, well she's been back to the house since then, 0:16:36.240 --> 0:16:39.920 because she brought she came back to the house sometime later, 0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:44.360 I can't remember when, and she picked up clothes, and 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:48.040 she picked up Medicare. She dropped off a Medicare check, 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:52.200 and she would have and she didn't break into the house, 0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:55.000 so she would have had keys to get into it. 0:16:56.200 --> 0:16:59.520 Glenn Taylor circled back to John's decision to drive the 0:16:59.600 --> 0:17:00.400 kids to Sydney. 0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:06.479 What time did I decide to go? Yes, So Graham 0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:09.200 asked me this, and I sort of said to him, 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:12.600 I bought petrol in Balliner. Would that have been long 0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:16.760 after she left? Maybe half an hour? I don't know, 0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:20.240 maybe half an hour. But the reason why is because 0:17:20.280 --> 0:17:23.080 I think I gave my bank card stuff to Graham 0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:25.399 to show him I bought petrol in Balaner on the 0:17:25.440 --> 0:17:29.320 way through at the endpole there and it showed the 0:17:29.440 --> 0:17:32.120 date on it. I think it was the next day 0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:36.320 on the date of the bank card, like the seventeenth, 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:39.800 you know what I mean, Like the Saturday night was 0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:44.359 the sixteenth, and so obviously I bought the petrol after 0:17:44.440 --> 0:17:45.440 midnight sometime. 0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:50.199 You know, it appears that John has momentarily forgotten that 0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:53.840 he purchased fuel at eleven oh six pm something he 0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:57.200 was at pains to highlight to Andy and Michelle back 0:17:57.200 --> 0:18:00.399 in nineteen ninety three when he arrived at the house 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:03.040 in the Shire in Sydney on the afternoon of Monday 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:03.960 May seventeen. 0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:06.320 I think there was a docket here. 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:09.760 Yeah, there's a bank card docket. I remember he asked 0:18:09.760 --> 0:18:10.359 me about it. 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:14.880 John volunteered that he bought petrol again at a town 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:18.280 called Kempsey, about a four hour drive south of Ballina. 0:18:18.960 --> 0:18:22.000 See that car ran on petrol and gas. I used 0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:25.600 to I can't remember if I had it this, but 0:18:26.240 --> 0:18:28.600 I used to fill it up with petrol and gas 0:18:28.640 --> 0:18:31.600 at once. Yes, I used to only have to stop 0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:34.520 once between here and Sydney, whenever I used to go 0:18:34.560 --> 0:18:35.120 to Sydney. 0:18:35.160 --> 0:18:38.080 You know when you left with the children, did you 0:18:38.680 --> 0:18:41.119 obviously had to carry them out to the car and 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:42.119 put them in the vehicle. 0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:42.919 Yeah. 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:45.960 Yeah, Did you take some clothes for them? 0:18:46.520 --> 0:18:49.520 Oh? Yeah, yeah, pack clothes. Yeah. 0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:53.879 Here's Michelle's recollection about that, and her account is backed 0:18:53.960 --> 0:18:56.600 up by Bromwin's half sister Melissa. 0:18:57.680 --> 0:19:02.600 It was just really, really strange that he packed up 0:19:02.800 --> 0:19:07.399 and through clothes that weren't even appropriate for Sydney weather. 0:19:08.320 --> 0:19:13.120 And inside pillowcases were just kids cloth pillow case here, 0:19:13.119 --> 0:19:15.960 in a pillowcase there, And there might have been a 0:19:16.280 --> 0:19:20.480 smallish bag of some sort. Melissa and I went shopping 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:22.960 so they could have something to wear, because nothing in 0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:24.760 it was appropriate to wear. 0:19:26.040 --> 0:19:28.439 Did you leave any nate or anything to say that 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:33.320 you'd taken the children? No is here any reason you didn't. 0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:36.120 Didn't think of it. I was sort of I don't know, 0:19:36.600 --> 0:19:38.720 I just didn't think of it. Just took the kids, 0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:38.959 you know. 0:19:39.520 --> 0:19:41.600 So you drove right through night? 0:19:42.200 --> 0:19:43.080 Yeah? Yeah. 0:19:43.800 --> 0:19:46.240 Do you know what time you would have arrived at Sydney. 0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:47.240 Ah? 0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:50.280 Yeah. I was going through Sydney at peak hour traffic, 0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:53.919 so usually takes me nine or ten hours, So I 0:19:53.960 --> 0:19:56.919 was probably going through Sydney, I don't know, eight in 0:19:57.000 --> 0:19:59.680 the morning, something like that, eight or nine. 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:00.800 Can you tell me. 0:20:00.960 --> 0:20:04.480 I know the car was unregistered too, because I once 0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:06.720 I got to Sydney, I had to go straight and 0:20:06.760 --> 0:20:09.720 get a pink slip straight away and get it registered. 0:20:10.920 --> 0:20:13.600 We know that John was very careful with money. He 0:20:13.720 --> 0:20:17.720 kept a tight grip on the family finances while he 0:20:17.920 --> 0:20:21.000 was away working in Sydney. The registration on the Ford 0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:25.520 Falcon expired. John had bought the car on May seven, 0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:26.440 the year before. 0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:28.440 It is probable that the. 0:20:28.400 --> 0:20:31.959 Annual registration ran out exactly a year later, so on 0:20:32.040 --> 0:20:37.439 Friday May seven, nine days before Bromin's disappearance. It is 0:20:37.480 --> 0:20:41.680 also likely that the subject of the expired registration came 0:20:41.760 --> 0:20:44.240 up when John went to the house on the evening 0:20:44.280 --> 0:20:49.120 of Sunday May sixteen. Perhaps John expected Bromin to pay 0:20:49.119 --> 0:20:51.960 for the registration out of her own funds as she 0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:55.840 was using the car while he was away in Sydney. Crystal, 0:20:55.880 --> 0:20:58.560 as a sixteen year old, said something in her police 0:20:58.600 --> 0:21:01.720 statement to Glenn Taylor, and it could have been directly 0:21:01.760 --> 0:21:05.240 related to the expired regio. 0:21:05.320 --> 0:21:07.680 I think at one stage they went into the bedroom 0:21:07.720 --> 0:21:10.520 and they were talking in there. I remember mom and 0:21:10.640 --> 0:21:13.560 Dad were talking about on paid bills and Mum saying 0:21:13.600 --> 0:21:16.359 something along the lines about not talking about it in 0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:19.600 front of Lauren and myself. The next thing that I 0:21:19.640 --> 0:21:22.840 remember was Mum telling myself and my sister Lauren to 0:21:22.880 --> 0:21:24.280 clean our teeth and go to bed. 0:21:25.240 --> 0:21:26.440 I think we normally went to. 0:21:26.400 --> 0:21:30.360 Bed about eight thirty pm each night. After I went 0:21:30.359 --> 0:21:32.919 to bed, I heard Mum and Dad arguing in the kitchen. 0:21:33.960 --> 0:21:37.080 I could hear Mom crying at the same time. I 0:21:37.080 --> 0:21:39.480 don't recall what was being said between Mum and Dad, 0:21:39.920 --> 0:21:42.920 but I could tell that they were arguing. I could 0:21:42.960 --> 0:21:46.520 hear them arguing until I must have fell asleep. My 0:21:46.640 --> 0:21:49.879 next recollection that night was being woken by my father. 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:53.040 Dad told me that he was taking Lauren a night 0:21:53.080 --> 0:21:53.560 to Sydney. 0:21:55.480 --> 0:21:59.280 Crystal was recalling the events surrounding John's arrival at the 0:21:59.359 --> 0:22:03.159 house and the last time she saw her mother was 0:22:03.240 --> 0:22:07.080 one of the unpaid bills the registration for the Ford Falcon. 0:22:08.119 --> 0:22:11.639 John knew on Monday May seventeen, when he arrived in 0:22:11.680 --> 0:22:14.520 Sydney after his drive through the night, that the registration 0:22:14.680 --> 0:22:18.400 had expired because he made arrangements to pay it that day. 0:22:19.560 --> 0:22:24.160 For me, this event reinforces Glenn's suspicion about John having 0:22:24.240 --> 0:22:27.639 gone into flight mode or a panic state on the 0:22:27.720 --> 0:22:33.040 Sunday night. Driving an unregistered car for some ten hours 0:22:33.040 --> 0:22:36.520 on Australia's major highway and then on roads in the 0:22:36.600 --> 0:22:40.760 nation's biggest city is risky. If there is an accident, 0:22:40.960 --> 0:22:45.159 there are serious legal consequences, but just a traffic stop 0:22:45.200 --> 0:22:49.280 would result in a hefty fine, And in nineteen ninety three, 0:22:49.520 --> 0:22:53.000 the expiry of a car's registration was obvious to the 0:22:53.040 --> 0:22:57.320 trained eye. Back then, the registration sticker was stuck to 0:22:57.359 --> 0:23:01.680 the windscreen, the expiry date was printed on the sticker. 0:23:02.640 --> 0:23:05.879 The color of the sticker would signal whether a vehicle 0:23:06.000 --> 0:23:09.960 was on the road illegally. If Bromwin had gone as 0:23:10.040 --> 0:23:13.399 John claims, he could have stayed in the house on 0:23:13.560 --> 0:23:18.080 Sandstone Crescent, allowing his two daughters to keep sleeping, and 0:23:18.119 --> 0:23:20.640 then on Monday morning he could have gone to Balner 0:23:20.720 --> 0:23:24.359 and had the car registered. Why did he decide to 0:23:24.480 --> 0:23:27.600 up and leave so suddenly, to drive through the night 0:23:27.840 --> 0:23:31.520 with all the attendant risks. He must have been shattered 0:23:31.520 --> 0:23:33.840 from having had no sleep when he set out. 0:23:34.920 --> 0:23:37.920 Can you tell me where you went to? First of all? 0:23:39.080 --> 0:23:41.920 First of all, did you go to a relative's house 0:23:42.119 --> 0:23:46.040 or friend's house, just trying to think. I went to. 0:23:47.600 --> 0:23:50.080 I don't know whether this is in order, but I 0:23:50.119 --> 0:23:52.679 know A called into my daughter at her work. I 0:23:52.720 --> 0:23:53.520 had the kids with me. 0:23:53.640 --> 0:23:56.200