WEBVTT - The Media Show | 17 January 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.000 This is the Media Show with Jack. 0:00:02.800 --> 0:00:06.760 Outing, Hello and welcome to the Media Show. Tonight we'll 0:00:06.760 --> 0:00:09.840 take a look at the toxic culture inside the Guardian 0:00:09.880 --> 0:00:14.200 Australia's newsroom, a war between Anthony Albanesi and Elon Musk, 0:00:14.520 --> 0:00:15.960 and towards the end of the show, we're going to 0:00:15.960 --> 0:00:19.960 sit down with media watchdog columnist Jared Henderson to keep 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:22.840 an eye on the ABC. But first, everyone will have 0:00:22.880 --> 0:00:26.560 seen the heartbreaking footage of the bushfires in California, but 0:00:26.680 --> 0:00:29.280 not everyone will have taken the time to read about 0:00:29.280 --> 0:00:34.080 the widespread criticism of California's leadership, which some have argued 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:37.480 have made the fires more difficult to contain. Now, one 0:00:37.640 --> 0:00:40.319 marketing clip which has gone viral does a pretty good 0:00:40.360 --> 0:00:44.400 job of summarizing the obsession with identity politics which is 0:00:44.520 --> 0:00:47.440 infected leadership of critical emergency services. 0:00:48.560 --> 0:00:51.360 You want to see somebody that responds to your house, 0:00:51.479 --> 0:00:54.120 your emergency, whether it's a medical call or a fire call, 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:56.800 that looks like you. It gives that person a little 0:00:56.800 --> 0:01:00.360 bit more ease knowing that somebody might understand their situation better. 0:01:00.640 --> 0:01:03.000 Is she strong enough to do this? Or you couldn't 0:01:03.000 --> 0:01:05.640 carry my husband out of a fire, which my response 0:01:05.800 --> 0:01:07.560 is he got himself from the wrong place if I 0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:08.399 have to carry him out. 0:01:08.280 --> 0:01:08.800 Of a fire. 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:13.520 This woman is a Los Angeles Fire Department diversity chief, 0:01:13.840 --> 0:01:16.160 and she is making the argument that it is your 0:01:16.240 --> 0:01:19.080 fault if you are trapped in a burning building and 0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:22.680 a female firefighter isn't strong enough to save you. Now, 0:01:22.680 --> 0:01:27.679 that's pretty disgusting and reprehensible commentary. It isn't very inclusive either, 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:30.720 as people with disabilities can be caught in fires, and 0:01:30.800 --> 0:01:33.600 we know the fires are so fast moving in California 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:36.840 that simply anyone can get caught out. And this is 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:40.839 what their marketing team proudly published as well. It's their culture, 0:01:41.400 --> 0:01:45.880 an aggressive victim blaming culture of identity politics above all. 0:01:46.560 --> 0:01:49.160 And of course this rubbish was called out by many people, 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:53.279 including Elon Musk, which prompted media organizations like The Sydney 0:01:53.320 --> 0:01:57.720 Morning Herald to criticize him. Reporter Bianka Hall writes disinformation 0:01:57.920 --> 0:02:03.120 rains as bushfires dev state California, and speaking about Musks, 0:02:03.120 --> 0:02:07.960 she alleged diversity equity and inclusion DEI investments and hiring 0:02:08.000 --> 0:02:12.200 processes he has repeatedly said have caused deaths that could 0:02:12.240 --> 0:02:15.840 otherwise have been avoided if more white men were fighting 0:02:15.840 --> 0:02:19.400 the fires. Now, he actually never explicitly said that, and 0:02:19.440 --> 0:02:22.520 if he had, she would have quoted directly what he said. 0:02:22.960 --> 0:02:26.160 She just verbaled him. And it is false, And it's 0:02:26.200 --> 0:02:29.480 an effort to straw man a broader and legitimate argument 0:02:29.800 --> 0:02:34.240 about these insane priorities and racist hiring practices at some 0:02:34.440 --> 0:02:38.720 emergency services. In fact, the reporting was so unhinged that 0:02:38.760 --> 0:02:41.200 one of their own writers called it out in a 0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:44.840 tweet which has since been deleted SMH. Columbus Parnell McGinnis 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:50.080 took aim at her own Masterthead for basically misrepresenting Musk's position. 0:02:50.880 --> 0:02:54.679 She said that credible outlets make themselves less credible by 0:02:54.680 --> 0:02:59.639 making up misinformation about misinformation. Musks suggested that fire services 0:02:59.680 --> 0:03:03.680 should not preference DEI hires over people who could do 0:03:03.800 --> 0:03:07.760 the job, a subtle but important difference to what is 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:11.919 implied here. Now, either of these reporters such as Bianker Hall, 0:03:11.960 --> 0:03:15.200 are so stupid that they don't understand the argument, or 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:18.160 they simply don't care, And for the record, if it 0:03:18.200 --> 0:03:21.480 is the latter, then that is a real case of disinformation. 0:03:23.800 --> 0:03:23.960 Well. 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:26.280 Joining me on the show this week is the Australians 0:03:26.360 --> 0:03:31.359 Darren Davidson and Sky News contributor Louise Roberts. Louise, what 0:03:31.400 --> 0:03:35.880 we saw in that clip from this very senior fire 0:03:36.000 --> 0:03:40.000 chief telling people that if they're the ones trapped in 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:42.040 the building, well they've done the wrong thing. They're the 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:44.520 ones who've got themselves in the wrong spot. I find 0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:49.320 it astonishing that journalists are somehow defending that and also 0:03:49.360 --> 0:03:52.520 trying to make the argument that it's almost immoral to 0:03:52.720 --> 0:03:55.320 point out that that's just clearly wrong. 0:03:56.160 --> 0:03:58.360 Well, I do wonder what to Christine Larson's sort of 0:03:58.400 --> 0:04:01.360 position is It is she somehow all by extension blaming 0:04:01.400 --> 0:04:03.880 the good people of Los Angeles for the current fire situation, 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:06.160 the people who've lost their homes and the businesses have 0:04:06.200 --> 0:04:09.440 burned to the ground, and the absolute devastation, the multi 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:12.400 billion dollars of damage that's been caused. I do find 0:04:12.440 --> 0:04:16.320 that when Parnell sort of called out her own paper 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:20.600 for whitewashing the issue and sort of somehow suggesting that 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:23.560 Musk had made this comment saying there should be more 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:27.800 white men being hired rather than more diverse candidates. You know, 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:31.480 people are really recognized DEI as being a major factor 0:04:31.560 --> 0:04:34.360 in why these fires are not under control and why 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:37.279 the priority has been for training firefighters and not enough 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:39.760 water in the fire hydrants. I mean, from my point 0:04:39.760 --> 0:04:42.600 of view, it's a campaign, a three year campaign within 0:04:42.640 --> 0:04:44.160 that fire department, which should. 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:44.480 Be stopped now. 0:04:44.760 --> 0:04:46.920 Yeah, And I think there's Darren, Let's bring you in here, 0:04:46.960 --> 0:04:51.000 because there's clearly a cultural element in the fire department 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:53.280 as well, which is important to talk about, because it's 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:57.520 not like journalists went sorting through archive footage and this 0:04:57.680 --> 0:05:01.760 was leaked from their internal serve internal training material. This 0:05:02.000 --> 0:05:07.600 was published by the fire servers as part of this 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:11.040 identity politics propaganda push what they do when they're all 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:16.040 trying to be pro identity politics, they've published this commentary 0:05:16.160 --> 0:05:18.400 out there. It's come back to bite them. Obviously it 0:05:18.560 --> 0:05:21.640 was an older video, but it goes to show how 0:05:21.680 --> 0:05:25.000 they think about it. 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:25.400 It does. 0:05:25.839 --> 0:05:28.360 I actually lived in the area from twenty twenty one 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:30.920 until twenty twenty two where the fires are happening right now. 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:32.560 My son was born there, so I had a very 0:05:32.560 --> 0:05:38.440 good exposure to the way that local resources are managed. 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:40.640 And I think a lot of the commentary in some 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:43.599 of the commentary referenced, it's just a clear attempt to 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:47.039 distract from the failure of state and local government to 0:05:47.080 --> 0:05:51.719 contain fires that often accompany the Santa and A fires, 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:54.640 which are part of the climate in that region. Look, 0:05:54.680 --> 0:05:59.080 no question, human activity impacts climate, but you often have 0:05:59.320 --> 0:06:02.200 dry season following wet seasons. That's very very common. That's 0:06:02.200 --> 0:06:05.280 been happening in California for hundreds of years. What's actually 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:07.800 happened here is that Gavin Newsom and the Democrats have 0:06:07.920 --> 0:06:12.320 mismanaged local resources. They've underinvested in water storage and land management. 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:15.039 If you look at the federal budget the state budget 0:06:15.040 --> 0:06:19.640 for California coming up, they've slashed resource management for Cow 0:06:19.800 --> 0:06:26.000 Fire by half, which is a huge, huge reduction, and 0:06:26.040 --> 0:06:28.719 that's why these fires are happening. It's very very sad 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:32.320 someone that lived there. It's actually devastating to see what's 0:06:32.320 --> 0:06:36.039 happening to those people's homes and those community communities which 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:39.920 actually devastated. And I really do hope and we see 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:43.160 some a change in how those local resources are managed 0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:46.039 and how the state is led by Gavin Newsom, who 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:48.719 is an absolute he's a disaster. And we've seen this 0:06:48.760 --> 0:06:51.160 around the US in recent years, and it's one of 0:06:51.200 --> 0:06:53.120 the reasons why Trump's back in the White House. Which 0:06:53.120 --> 0:06:55.520 is that a lot of these cities have been really, 0:06:55.520 --> 0:06:58.120 really grossly mismanaged at the state on local level in 0:06:58.160 --> 0:06:58.960 somes of resourcing. 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:01.359 Yeah, well said, well, let's move on, because as we 0:07:01.440 --> 0:07:03.960 go to air tonight, the world was still waiting for 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:07.839 confirmation of a ceasefire deal in Gaza which would. 0:07:07.560 --> 0:07:09.160 See the release of hostages. 0:07:09.640 --> 0:07:13.120 Now it is expected to be formalized this weekend, and 0:07:13.160 --> 0:07:15.800 the good news has led to both sides of politics 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:19.679 taking credit. Both Joe Biden and Donald Trump claimed credit 0:07:19.680 --> 0:07:23.000 for the deal because both parties were involved, and for 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:25.440 the most part, the media coverage around this was fair. 0:07:25.920 --> 0:07:28.560 The New York Times called it an extraordinary act of 0:07:28.680 --> 0:07:33.680 collaboration between outgoing and incoming presidents. Biden and Trump defy 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:37.600 the history of animosity to seal Gaza ceasefire. The two 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:41.080 presidents directed their advisors to work together to push Israel 0:07:41.120 --> 0:07:43.760 and Hamas over the line for an agreement to halt 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:47.520 the fighting that has ravaged Gaza and release hostages who 0:07:47.520 --> 0:07:50.960 have been held there for fifteen months, and Biden himself 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:53.960 explained this for reporters pretty clearly at the press conference. 0:07:54.880 --> 0:07:58.880 This deal was developed and negotiated under my administration, but 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:03.000 terms will be implemented for the most part by the 0:08:03.040 --> 0:08:07.720 next administration. In these past few days, we've been speaking 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:09.640 as one team. 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:12.920 But just one minute after those comments, Biden went to 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:15.600 turn around and he was baited by a reporter. 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:17.320 Thank you looks. 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:18.400 Credit for this, mister President? 0:08:18.440 --> 0:08:19.120 You or child? 0:08:21.560 --> 0:08:24.520 Is that a job? Oh? Thank you. 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:31.280 Media pundits and so called esque experts will continue debating 0:08:31.480 --> 0:08:33.720 who should be praised for the deal if it goes ahead. 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:38.120 But over at MSNBC, the conspiracy started to festa. It 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:42.280 could not possibly be that Trump did something good. Host 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:44.120 Joy Reid had a different theory. 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:48.520 And Prime Minister Benjamin Netsanyahu has made it no secret 0:08:48.760 --> 0:08:51.840 that he prefers Trump and wanted to deliver him a win. 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:56.520 The Washington Post reporter that Israel would gift something to Trump, 0:08:56.840 --> 0:08:59.360 but it was believed to be a deal on Lebanon. 0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:03.160 This is supposed to be a legitimate news service, and 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:06.440 Joy read is just making up theories that the entire 0:09:06.640 --> 0:09:10.440 war being halted was because of a secret deal between 0:09:10.559 --> 0:09:17.920 Israel and Trump. Well, Louise, those kind of conspiracy theories 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:20.880 get very close to the Jews are controlling the media, 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:22.480 and they're controlling the government. 0:09:23.400 --> 0:09:24.040 My problem with this. 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:29.040 There's nothing of substance that she possibly could have other 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:31.360 than reports that they've had conversations. Of course they're going 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:33.439 to have conversations. He is the incoming president of the 0:09:33.520 --> 0:09:36.240 United States. They're going to be talking. But she's actually 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:40.440 gone to air alleging that he has waited. So it's 0:09:40.480 --> 0:09:42.640 by the way that the onus is then on Israel. 0:09:42.679 --> 0:09:45.520 It's all Hermas was coming to the table, but Israel 0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:51.200 was waiting, and Nanayu was waiting to give Trump a 0:09:51.200 --> 0:09:52.800 good present for him to start. 0:09:53.000 --> 0:09:55.120 It's so absurd, it's absurd. 0:09:55.200 --> 0:09:59.200 It's actually offensive to Jewish people somehow, allowing hostages to 0:09:59.240 --> 0:10:02.360 remain in those times and suffer while a little tidy 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:04.120 deal was done to make Trump look good once he 0:10:04.120 --> 0:10:06.240 gets into the White House. And also the way that 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:09.080 Biden sort of throws that nasty comment over his shoulder, 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:11.920 you're joking, even in a situation where he's leaving the 0:10:11.960 --> 0:10:15.560 Oval office, he cannot give Trump any sort of, you know, 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:18.480 credit for pushing this deal. In fact, it was Trump's 0:10:18.760 --> 0:10:22.800 Middle East envoy who actually got Benjamin mcnawhu to actually 0:10:23.200 --> 0:10:26.040 agree to the deal, So there was no harm in 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:29.000 Biden actually saying yes, it was truly bipartisan approach and 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:30.800 thank you mister Trump for your help. But he couldn't 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:32.600 bring himself to do it, which says everything to me 0:10:32.679 --> 0:10:37.120 about his administration and leaning towards a very left conspiracy theory. 0:10:37.520 --> 0:10:40.000 Yeah, and I would have liked to see both leaders. Actually, 0:10:40.800 --> 0:10:42.440 you know, Darren, let's bring you in. I would have 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:46.480 liked to see both leaders probably praise the other person 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:50.160 because there were two parties involved in that. If it 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:52.920 does go ahead, and it will be a wholly good 0:10:52.920 --> 0:10:57.480 thing for everyone involved. The other element to this story, though, 0:10:57.559 --> 0:11:00.760 is you've got these organizations. The left is very quick 0:11:00.800 --> 0:11:05.800 to talk about misinformation and regulating against this fake news, 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:12.080 et cetera. They publish this absolute nonsense, CaAl conspiratorial. It's 0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:15.800 just conjecture about something they think Trump might have done. 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:18.320 I think it's going to get much worse as he 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:20.920 takes offers. What do you make of it in this situation. 0:11:22.960 --> 0:11:26.040 I agree Biden's touting his record on foreign policies he 0:11:26.120 --> 0:11:30.160 leaves office, but it's it's a really questionable track record 0:11:30.160 --> 0:11:32.640 over the last four years. I mean, on Israel itself. 0:11:32.800 --> 0:11:37.439 He opposed nearly every single military decision that Israel made 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:41.079 and it's really only Israel that's established de terrence against 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:44.960 Iran in that region. You know that, I think the 0:11:45.000 --> 0:11:47.840 greatest failure of Biden's foreign policy is that so many 0:11:49.240 --> 0:11:53.559 adversaries around the world have kind of moved in to. 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:54.000 Feel this vacuum. 0:11:54.240 --> 0:11:56.040 You know, we have we had so many conflicts around 0:11:56.040 --> 0:11:59.000 the world during during Biden's term. I find it really 0:11:59.040 --> 0:12:03.040 hard to buy into this attempt to kind of paint 0:12:03.040 --> 0:12:05.640 this picture of a really strong foreign policy record. I 0:12:05.679 --> 0:12:07.240 think it's quite the opposite. In fact, par securely in 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:07.800 the Middle East. 0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:09.360 Yeah, it's a really good point. 0:12:09.360 --> 0:12:11.680 And the other element to this is if it was 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:14.800 all Biden, as his supporters are suggesting, then why didn't 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:17.839 he do it six months ago? Why has it coincidentally 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:20.840 taken up until he's about to take office. 0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:23.400 Interestingly though, that the New York Post did a great 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:26.120 coverage of this, and they actually got some quotes sort 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:28.560 of off the record from Biden's admin who said that 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:32.040 Trump's influence was very important to actually securing this as well. 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:35.920 So while everyone around him acknowledges it, he still wants 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:38.839 to sort of take full credit for something, as you say, 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:40.720 he could have done six months ago. And ended the 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:42.160 suffering of many hostages. 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:45.960 Yeah, and in Biden's scripted statement, he does actually reach 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:48.640 out and say, you know, this was a team effort, 0:12:48.720 --> 0:12:51.600 so that there was a bit of bipartnersan. 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:53.640 Commentary body language when he leaves elector and I think 0:12:53.679 --> 0:12:54.199 says it all. 0:12:54.800 --> 0:12:56.880 He was told he doesn't know what he's saying, you know, 0:12:56.920 --> 0:12:58.000 it doesn't know where he is. 0:12:58.240 --> 0:13:00.880 I don't think it's authentic. He's been told be magnanimous 0:13:00.920 --> 0:13:01.760 to mister Trump. 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:04.800 But in his heart there's a script and then there's 0:13:04.840 --> 0:13:07.080 what he actually wants to say. But look, let's move on. 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:10.840 Because Mark Zuckerberg has finally dismantled the corrupt and biased 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:14.920 fact checking system which polices his platforms in the United States. 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:18.760 He spent hours explaining the decision in a podcast with 0:13:18.880 --> 0:13:19.440 Joe Rogan. 0:13:20.800 --> 0:13:23.920 We tried to put in place, you know, a system 0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:26.679 that would deal with it, you know, and early on 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:30.720 tried to basically make it so that it was really limited. 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:32.880 We're like, all right, we're just gonna have the system 0:13:32.880 --> 0:13:35.080 where the these third party fact checkers and they can 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:38.800 check the worst of the worst stuff, right, so things 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:41.520 that are very clear hoaxes that there's like it's not like, 0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:44.800 like we're not parsing speech about whether something is slightly 0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:48.640 true or slightly false, like Earth is flat, you know, 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:50.520 things like that. Right, So that was sort of the 0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:53.320 original intent we put in place the system, and it 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:56.640 just sort of veered from there. I think to some 0:13:56.679 --> 0:13:59.120 degree it's because some of the people whose job is 0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:02.160 to do fact checking, a lot of their industry is 0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:04.079 focused on political fact checking, so they're just kind of 0:14:04.120 --> 0:14:06.400 veered in that direction, and we kept on trying to 0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:09.400 basically get it to be what we had originally intended, 0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:11.800 which is just you know, it's not the point is 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:16.080 and to like judge people's opinions. It's to provide in 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:18.760 this layer to kind of help fact check some of 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:20.920 the stuff that seems the most extreme. 0:14:21.040 --> 0:14:25.040 But it just, you know, it was just. 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:27.840 Never accepted by people broadly. I think people just felt 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:32.400 like the fact checkers were too biased, not necessarily even 0:14:32.520 --> 0:14:35.680 so much and what they ruled, although sometimes I think 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:37.520 people would disagree with that, a lot of the time, 0:14:37.840 --> 0:14:39.640 it was just what types of things they chose to 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:40.720 even go in fact check in the. 0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:41.840 First time in the first place. 0:14:43.200 --> 0:14:47.040 Zuckerberg also shed light on how political censorship had become. 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:50.040 He revealed when he pushed back against Joe Biden's team, 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:52.520 his company started getting investigated. 0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:57.840 These people from the Biden administration would call up our 0:14:57.880 --> 0:15:00.840 team and like scream at them, and and it's like, 0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:03.280 these documents are it's all kind of out there. 0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:06.000 Did you record any of those phone calls? I don't know. 0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:06.480 I don't think. 0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:08.840 I don't think we were, but I think, oh, listen, 0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:11.320 I mean there are emails, the emails are published, it's 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:15.000 all it's all kind of out there, and they're like 0:15:16.200 --> 0:15:17.840 and basically it just got to this point where we 0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:20.320 were like, no, we're not gonna We're not gonna take 0:15:20.360 --> 0:15:21.560 down things that are true. 0:15:21.880 --> 0:15:22.880 That's ridiculous. 0:15:24.160 --> 0:15:25.960 Now, it is all very well for Zuckerberg to say 0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:28.840 that his fact checking system is corrupt and biased, so 0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:31.360 he is fixing it in America, But what about for 0:15:31.440 --> 0:15:34.720 us here in Australia. We've been locked in very public 0:15:34.760 --> 0:15:37.920 disagreements with activist fact checkers here in Australia which have 0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:42.200 been paid astonishing amounts of money by Zuckerberg to sensor journalism. 0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:45.880 And these activists will still have the power to censor 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:48.400 your thoughts at the upcoming election in a few months, 0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:52.920 we asked Meta about how it could possibly justify keeping 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:56.880 the Australian industry going and allowing r MI t back 0:15:56.920 --> 0:15:59.280 onto Facebook's payroll, and they gave. 0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:00.280 Us this statement. 0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:04.080 No changes to Meta's third party fact checking program in 0:16:04.080 --> 0:16:08.800 Australia will happen before the federal election. We are beginning 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:11.480 with rolling out community notes in the US. Building this 0:16:11.560 --> 0:16:14.440 type of community takes time and we will continue to 0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:17.600 improve it over the course of the year before considering 0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:21.920 expansion to other countries. In addition, before rolling out any 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:25.000 changes to our fact checking program outside the US, we 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:29.880 will carefully consider our legal and regulatory obligations in each country, 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:35.080 including Australia. R MIT's Lookout is a Meta third party 0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:38.760 fact checker in Australia. R MIT have undergone some changes, 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:45.160 including management, and their renewal application has been approved by 0:16:45.360 --> 0:16:48.560 the IFCN. On the new website they detail a code 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:52.040 of practice which includes commitment to impartiality and fairness, etc. 0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:52.520 Etc. 0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:54.960 We all know that they never did that. Let's bring 0:16:55.040 --> 0:16:57.520 the panel back in. They did have a code of 0:16:57.520 --> 0:17:00.440 conduct r MIT, they didn't adhere to it, which is 0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:04.000 why basically we got them shut down and Russell Skelton 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:06.800 was sacked. That's the change of management we're talking about, 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:09.560 but it's still the same core team that's running it 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:13.520 that've been allowed back there into Facebook. They're going to 0:17:13.520 --> 0:17:17.480 be able to censor content during the federal election. So, Louise, 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:21.040 my problem with this it's how can these two things 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:23.719 be true. You've got the CEO of a company saying 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:27.399 this system's flawed. It's so flawed that we lost control 0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:30.760 of it. It's become political. In that podcast and other 0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:34.879 sections we didn't play, they discussed it being paramount to 0:17:35.040 --> 0:17:38.800 election interference as well, and the example given was, you 0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:42.320 know the Hunter Biden laptop, which they obviously took off Facebook. 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:45.840 How many more votes would that have impacted during the referendum. 0:17:46.400 --> 0:17:48.280 We were prevented from reporting about the length of the 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:49.680 ULARU document. 0:17:49.720 --> 0:17:50.560 By this group. 0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:55.280 Now this impacts how people vote because one there is 0:17:55.320 --> 0:17:56.760 an argument that it's misinformation. 0:17:57.000 --> 0:17:58.440 Wasn't misinformation. They were wrong. 0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:01.440 They were too uneducated to understand the argument that there 0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:04.040 was a bundle of documents. It just was what it was, 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:08.520 whether they like it or not. These people, how could 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:12.480 on one hand. 0:18:11.040 --> 0:18:13.480 This scheme not be fit for practice in the US. 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:16.399 But don't worry about those people in backwater Australia and 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:18.160 their elections. 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:20.879 It's offensive, isn't it, Because you would think that with 0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:23.840 an election coming up and the fact they've mentioned electoral 0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:25.960 interference before and it's been an issue for them in 0:18:26.000 --> 0:18:28.480 their fact checkers. I don't see why they can't just 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:31.080 stop the service right now. I mean, it's a digital platform, 0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:33.520 so why does it take so long to roll it 0:18:33.560 --> 0:18:36.200 out and test it an America and see about how 0:18:36.240 --> 0:18:37.360 that works and figure it. 0:18:37.400 --> 0:18:40.399 I think he is very scared of Trump because I 0:18:40.440 --> 0:18:44.240 think that if he can get hauled before some congressional 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:47.760 inquiry and all these emails, you know, it's all very 0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:49.880 well for him to say, oh, the Biden administration made 0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:50.399 us do it. 0:18:50.960 --> 0:18:51.719 Well, you did it. 0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:52.719 Well, they did it. 0:18:52.720 --> 0:18:54.760 You know you're not you're complaining about it. Now that 0:18:54.760 --> 0:18:58.520 there's a new administration, right, it would be very easy 0:18:58.600 --> 0:19:01.120 for them to get hauled over the coals. 0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:01.520 Yeah. 0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:03.560 I'm think you're right there as well. But I think 0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:05.639 it's bad news for young voters, perhaps young people who 0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:07.639 are voting for the first time in a federal election 0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:11.280 and are going to platforms like Facebook and Instagram to 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:14.199 get their election coverage and to work out what the 0:19:14.200 --> 0:19:18.320 candidates stand for, that's going to be corrupted and skewed. 0:19:18.440 --> 0:19:20.600 And you know, Darren, let's bring you in. 0:19:21.400 --> 0:19:24.560 What do you make of Mark Zuckerberg's just more broadly 0:19:24.600 --> 0:19:26.240 the moves to get rid of it in the US, 0:19:26.600 --> 0:19:29.199 but the inconsistency that we still have to deal with 0:19:29.240 --> 0:19:31.879 this scheme that he says is bad. 0:19:34.040 --> 0:19:37.280 Yeah, unfortunately, And it's consistent with Facebook's behavior and actions 0:19:37.320 --> 0:19:39.640 in Australia over many, many years now. They just show 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:45.480 a complete disregard for values and Australian law and we've 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:49.600 seen that with the Bargaining Enterprise Code that was introduced 0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:52.400 a couple of years ago and their actions over that, 0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:54.879 which is still yet to be resolved. I find it 0:19:54.960 --> 0:19:58.400 really amusing that Mark Zuckerberg goes on the Rogan podcast 0:19:58.480 --> 0:20:03.639 and seems astonished and outrage that a politician or his 0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:06.760 staff would call up and complain and scream at them. 0:20:06.960 --> 0:20:10.959 And you know, this is a daily occupational hazard for journalists, 0:20:11.000 --> 0:20:13.000 as you know, Jack, we get that all day long 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:19.040 from politicians and contacts and other stakeholders in the publishing 0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:21.400 business and we just get on with it. And that's 0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:23.080 part of the job. And it's just another example of 0:20:23.119 --> 0:20:26.320 why you know, Facebook is a publishing platform, is the 0:20:26.320 --> 0:20:30.520 world's largest publish publishing platform, but it's not fit for purpose. 0:20:30.720 --> 0:20:32.840 I mean, we're one of the most heavily regulated media 0:20:32.960 --> 0:20:36.720 environments in the world where Akmo oversees us from a 0:20:36.720 --> 0:20:39.440 broadcasting point of view. If we ever make a mistake, 0:20:39.640 --> 0:20:42.080 we've got corrections, policies and everything. I don't need some 0:20:42.119 --> 0:20:45.040 twenty two year old indigenous rights activists who's wormed their 0:20:45.080 --> 0:20:47.800 way into a university to tell me and my team 0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:50.919 whether a document is six pages or one page. But 0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:53.239 that's what was happening, and that's the flaw with this 0:20:53.280 --> 0:20:57.040