WEBVTT - Paul Murray Live | 8 October 0:00:02.610 --> 0:00:08.850 This is Paul Murray Live. Thank you, Shari. Good evening, Australia. 0:00:08.910 --> 0:00:11.360 Welcome to the Man Cave. Caleb Bond in for Paul 0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:14.140 this week. Here's what's coming up tonight. The Albanese government 0:00:14.180 --> 0:00:16.520 can't seem to get its story straight about the card 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:18.980 surcharge ban and the ATO. I think they're in a 0:00:18.980 --> 0:00:21.739 little bit of trouble. Lisa Goddard and Darren Barnett are 0:00:21.780 --> 0:00:23.759 on the panel tonight. I'll see what they think of 0:00:23.860 --> 0:00:27.510 buying their groceries from the government. And Colm Flynn here, 0:00:27.570 --> 0:00:29.510 as always, on a Thursday to tell us all about 0:00:29.590 --> 0:00:32.670 Pope Leo's special visit to France. and why it's attracted 0:00:32.690 --> 0:00:36.629 the attention of so many young people. Now, last night 0:00:36.650 --> 0:00:39.810 I talked extensively about this ridiculous decision from the High 0:00:39.850 --> 0:00:42.610 Court that a coal mine in New South Wales is 0:00:42.650 --> 0:00:46.500 somehow responsible for the emissions from that coal being burnt 0:00:46.540 --> 0:00:49.280 on the other side of the world. The Mount Pleasant 0:00:49.460 --> 0:00:52.960 coal mine is near Musselbrook. It's been blocked from expanding 0:00:53.000 --> 0:00:56.139 because under New South Wales law, the planning authorities have 0:00:56.180 --> 0:00:59.800 to take into account the scope three emissions... that come 0:00:59.860 --> 0:01:03.480 from that mine. And scope three means emissions that happen elsewhere. 0:01:03.900 --> 0:01:06.800 So they're not actually emissions caused by the mine or 0:01:06.880 --> 0:01:10.120 from the mine, and they're not counted as Australian emissions, 0:01:10.640 --> 0:01:13.110 but apparently they have to be taken into account when 0:01:13.150 --> 0:01:17.290 a mine is now approved or expanded. So effectively, you 0:01:17.370 --> 0:01:20.789 are responsible for what someone else does after the product 0:01:21.190 --> 0:01:23.790 has been dug out of the ground. Now, I think 0:01:24.350 --> 0:01:27.160 that is frankly absurd. How can it be that that 0:01:27.180 --> 0:01:30.860 a coal mine in Australia is responsible for what happens 0:01:30.920 --> 0:01:33.400 to coal in India or China or some other country. 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:37.059 How are those emissions considered anything to do with us 0:01:37.540 --> 0:01:40.500 when we're not the ones burning it? I said last 0:01:40.560 --> 0:01:43.000 night that I think this will become a handbrake on 0:01:43.060 --> 0:01:46.250 mining and particularly coal mining in New South Wales. And 0:01:46.280 --> 0:01:49.070 I spoke with Stuart Bocking, who's the chief executive of 0:01:49.130 --> 0:01:52.400 Coal Australia. He agreed with me. He said, as did I, 0:01:52.790 --> 0:01:55.580 that this would result in green lawfare. that people would 0:01:55.600 --> 0:01:58.950 be running cases willy-nilly to try and prevent coal mines 0:01:59.030 --> 0:02:01.810 and prevent coal mines from expanding. And he said that 0:02:01.830 --> 0:02:04.650 the law needed to change because if it doesn't, they'll 0:02:04.670 --> 0:02:09.770 be left in a very precarious, uncertain position. Well, the 0:02:09.810 --> 0:02:12.900 New South Wales Premier, Chris Minns, today, says it's nothing 0:02:12.910 --> 0:02:14.820 to worry about and don't get excited. 0:02:14.840 --> 0:02:18.200 I don't think everyone should overreact to the decision and 0:02:18.240 --> 0:02:21.040 I also don't think that activists who are considering court 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:22.579 actions should get overexcited. 0:02:23.790 --> 0:02:27.570 Premier, I don't think anyone is overreacting here. Just look 0:02:27.610 --> 0:02:30.730 at the particulars of this case. The Planning Commission in 0:02:30.770 --> 0:02:33.500 New South Wales approved the expansion of a coal mine. 0:02:34.120 --> 0:02:37.980 Local activists in Musselbrook then successfully argued to the High 0:02:38.040 --> 0:02:41.419 Court that the approval of that expansion was wrong because 0:02:41.480 --> 0:02:43.840 the emissions caused by the coal dug out of the 0:02:43.880 --> 0:02:47.530 ground in Australia but burnt overseas would still contribute to 0:02:47.570 --> 0:02:50.990 climate change in Australia and that damage could not properly... 0:02:51.060 --> 0:02:53.720 be mitigated and that they had not in approving it 0:02:54.680 --> 0:02:57.959 sorted out any proper mitigation. So we're talking about a 0:02:58.040 --> 0:03:01.299 precedent now set by the highest court in the country 0:03:01.780 --> 0:03:04.380 that a coal mine in New South Wales can be 0:03:04.440 --> 0:03:08.510 held responsible for the emissions caused by that coal even 0:03:08.570 --> 0:03:11.390 when it is not burnt in this country. And on 0:03:11.430 --> 0:03:14.369 that basis the expansion of a coal mine has been 0:03:14.450 --> 0:03:17.829 stopped and you're telling us not to overreact to that? 0:03:18.690 --> 0:03:22.240 I mean people are reacting, sure. But they're not overreacting. 0:03:23.100 --> 0:03:27.959 The precedent that this has set is hugely alarming. This 0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:31.050 was the Chief Executive of the Minerals Council of Australia, 0:03:31.090 --> 0:03:33.730 Tanya Constable, on News 24 this morning. 0:03:34.639 --> 0:03:38.600 We are the biggest taxpayer in Australia within the mining industry. 0:03:39.400 --> 0:03:45.360 We are the biggest exporter in the country. Mining accounts 0:03:45.420 --> 0:03:50.870 for over 60% of total exports in Australia. This is 0:03:50.910 --> 0:03:56.130 a really bad precedent for investment. It's a bad decision 0:03:56.250 --> 0:04:00.150 because it will impact jobs. We're concerned that other projects 0:04:00.210 --> 0:04:02.970 in New South Wales and across Australia will be impacted, 0:04:03.230 --> 0:04:07.230 but not just for the mining industry, but any industries 0:04:07.730 --> 0:04:11.270 that have customers overseas. 0:04:12.710 --> 0:04:14.530 I mean, how can the Premier say that this is 0:04:14.570 --> 0:04:17.930 just a technical decision and it's nothing really to worry 0:04:17.950 --> 0:04:22.020 about and don't overreact? The precedent is now set. that 0:04:22.040 --> 0:04:25.080 a coal mine in New South Wales is responsible for 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:27.800 what happens on the other side of the world. And 0:04:27.820 --> 0:04:30.979 the question that he has to answer is what can 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:34.760 a mine actually do to mitigate those emissions caused on 0:04:34.779 --> 0:04:36.740 the other side of the world for which they are 0:04:36.779 --> 0:04:40.200 now responsible per the High Court without just leaving the 0:04:40.230 --> 0:04:43.830 coal in the ground? Once it's been mined, sold to 0:04:43.850 --> 0:04:46.890 someone else, what they do with it, which is obviously 0:04:46.910 --> 0:04:49.630 going to be burn it for energy, is their business. 0:04:50.500 --> 0:04:52.900 We can't interfere in the process of how they do that. 0:04:53.500 --> 0:04:55.680 We can't tell them what to do with it. We 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:58.440 can't tell them what to do to mitigate emissions in 0:04:58.500 --> 0:05:02.020 their country. And so if we are responsible for that here, 0:05:02.820 --> 0:05:06.330 what can a mine do except not mine coal? And 0:05:06.350 --> 0:05:08.670 that is clearly the message now being sent to the 0:05:08.710 --> 0:05:11.910 mining industry. They're not jumping up and down for a laugh. 0:05:12.070 --> 0:05:15.289 They're jumping up and down because this will hurt investment 0:05:15.610 --> 0:05:18.109 and it will hurt the future of coal mining in 0:05:18.150 --> 0:05:22.279 New South Wales. Why would you bother to try to 0:05:22.380 --> 0:05:25.479 open a new coal mine or expand an existing one 0:05:26.140 --> 0:05:28.760 if you could almost guarantee that you are going to 0:05:28.839 --> 0:05:32.000 end up in this position now where you'll have to 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:35.400 be trying to justify in court that the emissions created 0:05:35.500 --> 0:05:38.440 by that coal won't in some way affect the climate 0:05:38.460 --> 0:05:42.630 in Australia or that you'll have the planning body saying, well, 0:05:42.650 --> 0:05:44.630 how are we going to mitigate it? I mean, how 0:05:44.650 --> 0:05:48.210 do you actually argue against that? If you accept that 0:05:48.250 --> 0:05:52.020 burning coal changes the climate, well, it doesn't particularly matter 0:05:52.100 --> 0:05:54.500 where the coal is burnt. We all live in the 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:57.979 same world. We all exist in the same atmosphere. And 0:05:58.020 --> 0:06:00.660 so if you accept that man-made climate change happens, as 0:06:00.700 --> 0:06:04.140 some say it does, then, of course, burning Australian coal 0:06:04.190 --> 0:06:07.350 in China would eventually affect the climate in Australia as well. 0:06:08.770 --> 0:06:11.010 And if that's a factor that New South Wales law 0:06:11.070 --> 0:06:14.430 says needs to be taken into consideration, and it's something 0:06:14.450 --> 0:06:17.210 that the High Court has now clearly ruled... can stop 0:06:17.240 --> 0:06:20.300 the expansion of a coal mine from going ahead, what 0:06:20.360 --> 0:06:23.460 can you actually do to argue against it? That's the 0:06:23.500 --> 0:06:27.740 problem we now have. It's not an overreaction. It's a 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:32.120 serious concern and it's a major threat to coal mining 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:34.920 in New South Wales. And as I said last night, 0:06:35.300 --> 0:06:39.350 this case applies to New South Wales law, but I'm 0:06:39.400 --> 0:06:42.490 sure activists will now be looking very closely at laws 0:06:42.529 --> 0:06:44.850 in other states and be looking to run many more 0:06:44.910 --> 0:06:47.440 cases like this And they'll be looking to run many 0:06:47.460 --> 0:06:49.750 more cases like this in New South Wales as well, 0:06:49.830 --> 0:06:53.250 where the precedent has been set. For the Premier to 0:06:53.290 --> 0:06:56.170 tell green activists not to get overly excited, I mean, 0:06:56.270 --> 0:06:59.210 come on! Of course they'll be looking at this and 0:06:59.250 --> 0:07:01.570 seeing it as the green light to challenge every coal 0:07:01.610 --> 0:07:04.250 project in the state, because they've just been handed the 0:07:04.270 --> 0:07:07.810 blueprint for how to do it. You argue against it 0:07:07.950 --> 0:07:10.230 on the basis of emissions that come from the other 0:07:10.270 --> 0:07:12.910 side of the world, something over which we have no 0:07:12.950 --> 0:07:16.070 real control... and something that's very hard for a coal 0:07:16.110 --> 0:07:18.510 mine or an energy company, as it is in this case, 0:07:19.050 --> 0:07:22.180 to argue against. It is a handbrake on coal mining, 0:07:22.440 --> 0:07:26.460 and it is the dream of these green activists. And 0:07:26.500 --> 0:07:29.980 the federal government is still dancing around it. Environment Minister 0:07:30.100 --> 0:07:33.240 Murray Watt basically said yesterday that it wasn't his problem 0:07:33.440 --> 0:07:34.780 because it doesn't relate to federal law. 0:07:36.250 --> 0:07:38.880 Now, this seems to be a novel decision from the 0:07:38.920 --> 0:07:40.460 High Court and it will take a little bit of 0:07:40.500 --> 0:07:43.800 time to understand its implications. Obviously, the New South Wales 0:07:43.820 --> 0:07:46.860 government will consider how they respond to this, but there's 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:49.840 no change that's required to the federal environmental law because 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:53.510 our laws don't require these kind of considerations at the 0:07:53.570 --> 0:07:55.910 moment anyway. It's obviously, you know, the court has found 0:07:55.930 --> 0:07:57.990 to be a different situation in New South Wales and 0:07:58.370 --> 0:08:00.070 it'll now be for the New South Wales government to 0:08:00.110 --> 0:08:01.410 determine how they respond to that. 0:08:02.450 --> 0:08:06.110 And today, Climate Change and Energy Minister Chris Bowen sidestepped 0:08:06.190 --> 0:08:06.650 it as well. 0:08:07.930 --> 0:08:09.960 You're asking me whether I agree with a court decision. 0:08:10.460 --> 0:08:13.220 A court decision is the law of the land. It's 0:08:13.260 --> 0:08:14.960 no matter whether I agree with it or not. And 0:08:14.980 --> 0:08:18.480 I'm here dealing with my colleagues on the matters before us. 0:08:18.560 --> 0:08:19.750 I have nothing further to add. 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:23.810 The bloke still sounds like he's asleep. But that is 0:08:23.870 --> 0:08:27.170 a complete cop-out to say that it's no matter whether 0:08:27.190 --> 0:08:30.270 he agrees with it or not. Sure. He can't change 0:08:30.330 --> 0:08:33.370 New South Wales law. And sure, you can't change the 0:08:33.410 --> 0:08:36.410 decisions of the High Court. But you're the Energy Minister, 0:08:37.010 --> 0:08:39.680 and so you are allowed... In fact, you should be 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:42.660 able to tell us your thoughts about this, because that 0:08:42.720 --> 0:08:46.420 is an issue that fundamentally affects energy and climate change. 0:08:46.540 --> 0:08:50.559 It is right in your wheelhouse, Mr Bowen. And given 0:08:50.580 --> 0:08:54.040 that the Prime Minister has previously backed the expansion of 0:08:54.070 --> 0:08:56.989 the Mount Pleasant coal mine... Why can't Murray Watt or 0:08:57.030 --> 0:09:00.150 Chris Bowen now say that the expansion should go ahead 0:09:00.170 --> 0:09:03.170 and that the precedent set by this case is alarming? 0:09:04.030 --> 0:09:06.750 Could it be that they actually think we should be 0:09:06.790 --> 0:09:10.160 held responsible for emissions on the other side of the world? 0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:13.020 The only problem with that, as I said last night, 0:09:13.620 --> 0:09:16.360 is that countries that need coal are not simply going 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:20.059 to stop finding coal because mines in Australia won't dig 0:09:20.100 --> 0:09:22.380 it up. They'll go and get the coal from somewhere 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:26.590 else because they need cheap, reliable energy. Australia happens to 0:09:26.630 --> 0:09:29.610 have some of the cleanest coal in the world. So 0:09:29.630 --> 0:09:31.990 if they're not buying coal from us, they're probably buying 0:09:32.030 --> 0:09:34.030 it from someone else who is selling them a product 0:09:34.410 --> 0:09:37.750 that will create more emissions. And if we accept that 0:09:37.820 --> 0:09:40.040 emissions caused on the other side of the world affect 0:09:40.220 --> 0:09:43.319 this country, as the court found in this case, then 0:09:43.380 --> 0:09:46.420 all you will do is encourage other countries to burn 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:49.920 dirtier coal that will make the climate even worse in Australia. 0:09:50.980 --> 0:09:53.550 None of it makes sense. But to say that it 0:09:53.610 --> 0:09:57.620 is an overreaction is just absolute rubbish. The law has 0:09:57.700 --> 0:10:03.050 to change. Now, what a mess this whole card surcharge 0:10:03.150 --> 0:10:06.500 ban has turned into. Of course, last week, the Prime 0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:08.980 Minister was claiming that this would make coffee and everything 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:09.500 else cheaper. 0:10:10.450 --> 0:10:13.570 Every time you tap, those little surcharges add up. Right now, 0:10:13.650 --> 0:10:18.470 they're costing Aussies $ 1. 6 billion each and every year. But 0:10:18.530 --> 0:10:22.270 from today, they're banned, saving you money every time you tap. 0:10:22.309 --> 0:10:25.089 So whether you're at the supermarket paying bills or buying 0:10:25.110 --> 0:10:27.210 a cup of coffee, the price you see is the 0:10:27.250 --> 0:10:27.990 price you pay. 0:10:28.990 --> 0:10:32.450 Not that that was actually ever going to happen. The 0:10:32.470 --> 0:10:34.360 whole point of this change was that when you go 0:10:34.380 --> 0:10:37.320 to pay for something, the actual cost will be reflected 0:10:37.380 --> 0:10:39.300 in the cost on the ticket or on the board. 0:10:39.890 --> 0:10:42.490 rather than it saying, you know, the coffee is $ 5. 50 0:10:42.330 --> 0:10:45.760 and then it comes up on the machine, it says $ 5. 0:10:45.630 --> 0:10:45.700 75. 0:10:45.690 --> 0:10:50.370 It should just say on the board, the coffee is $ 5. 75. 0:10:49.090 --> 0:10:51.670 So you know upfront what's happening, what it actually costs 0:10:52.200 --> 0:10:53.940 and what you're paying for it. The same as how 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:57.060 the GST is included in the price when you. 0:10:56.980 --> 0:10:57.880 Go to the supermarket. 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:00.400 And I don't have an issue with that. I think 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:03.939 it's more transparent. In most cases, it's not that small 0:11:03.980 --> 0:11:06.580 businesses would have to absorb the cost that the bank 0:11:06.620 --> 0:11:08.850 or the owner of the machine puts on them, It's 0:11:08.890 --> 0:11:11.550 just that you know what you're paying before you actually 0:11:11.590 --> 0:11:14.530 go in to pay for something. That cost from the 0:11:14.570 --> 0:11:17.100 bank is baked into the cost of the product. That's 0:11:17.170 --> 0:11:20.210 fine by me. But that's not how the government sold it. 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:23.740 The government was selling it as things will become cheaper 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:27.500 because the consumer won't have to pay the surcharge. And 0:11:27.559 --> 0:11:30.330 they've been caught out on that one. Because of course 0:11:30.370 --> 0:11:33.230 the ATO, which goes around collecting all the government's money 0:11:33.290 --> 0:11:36.089 for them, then decided that you couldn't pay a tax 0:11:36.110 --> 0:11:38.290 bill with a credit card because it didn't want to 0:11:38.350 --> 0:11:41.229 absorb the cost of the surcharge. So much for the 0:11:41.270 --> 0:11:45.320 government making everything cheaper. And they've just handled it so poorly. 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:49.000 I mean, just today, you had Claire O'Neill on the 0:11:49.059 --> 0:11:52.080 Today Show saying that the government had a problem with 0:11:52.100 --> 0:11:52.800 this from the ATO. 0:11:54.230 --> 0:11:56.150 We have a simple principle, and that is that you 0:11:56.190 --> 0:11:59.470 should not be charged to use your own money. And 0:11:59.510 --> 0:12:02.110 that's a good thing for Australians. We really want the 0:12:02.170 --> 0:12:05.070 ATO to go back and talk to business about what 0:12:05.110 --> 0:12:07.550 they've decided to do here and think about how they 0:12:07.570 --> 0:12:09.530 can find a solution that works. 0:12:10.510 --> 0:12:15.330 And then moments later, Andrew Charlton was on the ABC saying, actually, 0:12:15.350 --> 0:12:15.890 it's all fine. 0:12:16.760 --> 0:12:19.470 That decision is that they don't want the people who 0:12:19.630 --> 0:12:23.729 are not paying by credit card, which is 98% of taxpayers, 0:12:23.790 --> 0:12:26.770 to be subsidising those that do. And for that reason, 0:12:26.790 --> 0:12:29.790 they've said that from November, they won't be accepting credit. 0:12:29.550 --> 0:12:31.380 Cards as a way to pay tax. 0:12:31.740 --> 0:12:35.860 Yes, the government supports the ATO's decision. The ATO has 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:40.000 made that decision because of a principle of consistency between 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:42.570 the private sector and the public sector. 0:12:43.770 --> 0:12:47.240 It's rather curious, isn't it? I'm pretty sure I just 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:49.780 heard Claire O'Neill say, oh, there's an issue here. Oh, 0:12:49.800 --> 0:12:52.500 the government supports it, Mr Charlton said. And then he 0:12:52.540 --> 0:12:55.520 had to come out again later here on News 24 0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:57.460 and say that, in fact, the government has told the 0:12:57.540 --> 0:13:00.340 ATO to go back and consult further with small business. 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:03.920 It's really important for small businesses that they have flexibility, 0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:07.380 that there is flexibility there in their cash flow. One 0:13:07.420 --> 0:13:10.370 way they can get that flexibility is through payment plans, 0:13:10.510 --> 0:13:14.910 which the ATO provides. And the government has said to 0:13:14.950 --> 0:13:16.609 the ATO that we want them to work with small 0:13:16.630 --> 0:13:19.270 businesses to make sure that that flexibility is there and 0:13:19.309 --> 0:13:21.189 to continue consultation with small businesses. 0:13:22.350 --> 0:13:25.990 I mean, well done, chaps. You've done a great job 0:13:26.030 --> 0:13:29.430 of getting across the brief. The first mistake, of course... 0:13:29.660 --> 0:13:31.699 was to claim that this was actually going to make 0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:35.030 things cheaper. In most cases, it was never actually going 0:13:35.050 --> 0:13:38.010 to do that. And the government well knew that. And 0:13:38.050 --> 0:13:40.230 not only did they try to make the argument that 0:13:40.270 --> 0:13:42.970 this change would be making things cheaper so it was 0:13:43.010 --> 0:13:45.530 good for the cost of living, but they chose to 0:13:45.570 --> 0:13:48.410 do that last week, the same week that interest rates 0:13:48.470 --> 0:13:51.640 went up because inflation is running too high, which is 0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:54.980 largely caused by government spending. I mean, the height of 0:13:55.020 --> 0:13:58.070 the government... to claim that it's making things cheaper in 0:13:58.110 --> 0:14:01.210 a week when it actually made things more expensive for 0:14:01.250 --> 0:14:03.670 so many Australians who are just struggling to get by. 0:14:04.550 --> 0:14:08.130 And then they get caught out by themselves because not 0:14:08.170 --> 0:14:12.740 even the ATO wants to absorb the cost of the surcharge. Well, 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:15.219 I'm sorry, but what's good for the goose is good 0:14:15.260 --> 0:14:18.989 for the gander. If the government expects that businesses should 0:14:19.050 --> 0:14:21.550 absorb the cost of the surcharge in order to make 0:14:21.570 --> 0:14:25.200 things cheaper, then it must do the same itself. Who 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:27.940 am I kidding? When it comes to government, it's always 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:31.160 rules for thee and not for me. But it is 0:14:31.220 --> 0:14:35.239 just such a bad look. And I don't understand why 0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:38.590 the government can't just sort this out. I mean, why 0:14:38.890 --> 0:14:42.190 are they telling the ATO to go back and consult 0:14:42.250 --> 0:14:46.310 with small businesses? Just go tell the ATO that the 0:14:46.370 --> 0:14:49.480 government policy is that things should be cheaper and the 0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:51.660 surcharge has been banned from being passed on to the 0:14:51.700 --> 0:14:54.760 consumer and therefore they're just going to have to cop it. 0:14:55.460 --> 0:14:59.680 Reinstate the credit cards, no surcharge. That would be the 0:14:59.740 --> 0:15:02.200 fair and right thing to do because that's what the 0:15:02.240 --> 0:15:05.800 government is expecting of small business. And also to take 0:15:05.880 --> 0:15:08.910 away that ability to pay with a credit card from 0:15:08.950 --> 0:15:12.410 a small business fundamentally misunderstands how a lot of small 0:15:12.450 --> 0:15:16.690 businesses work. Money comes, money goes. A lot of small 0:15:16.710 --> 0:15:20.590 businesses are operating on pretty tight margins. They're not always 0:15:20.650 --> 0:15:23.690 flush with cash. I mean, let's say, for instance, you're 0:15:23.730 --> 0:15:26.260 a tiler. You're doing a big job. You're spending a 0:15:26.460 --> 0:15:28.160 lot of money on the products that you need to 0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:30.500 do the job and the wages of your staff, if 0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:33.300 you have any, and you don't recover that money until 0:15:33.340 --> 0:15:35.420 you've done the job, and then you give the invoice 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:38.280 to the client. So at this point in time, you 0:15:38.300 --> 0:15:40.620 have a lot of money going out, not a lot 0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:42.989 of money coming in. and then you get a big 0:15:43.050 --> 0:15:44.930 tax bill. So what do you do? You pay for 0:15:44.950 --> 0:15:46.890 it on the credit card. And then when the money 0:15:46.950 --> 0:15:49.430 comes in, you pay the credit card off. It's a 0:15:49.510 --> 0:15:52.530 line of credit. It's pretty common in business. It's a 0:15:52.570 --> 0:15:55.240 cash flow issue. And it's one that a lot of 0:15:55.270 --> 0:15:58.420 small businesses have to deal with. And now the ability 0:15:58.460 --> 0:16:00.940 to deal with it has been taken away by the 0:16:01.040 --> 0:16:05.900 ATO because it doesn't want to cop the credit card surcharge. Well, 0:16:05.940 --> 0:16:09.060 I'm sorry, but that's just not right. It's not right. 0:16:10.140 --> 0:16:13.260 You've got the federal government giving small businesses the double 0:16:13.300 --> 0:16:17.090 whammy of saying you should absorb the card surcharges and 0:16:17.230 --> 0:16:19.670 not pass the cost on to the consumer, but at 0:16:19.690 --> 0:16:22.890 the same time, we're not willing to do it. So 0:16:22.910 --> 0:16:25.990 you have to pay more to run your business, and 0:16:26.010 --> 0:16:28.450 then when we come knocking to take our tax money, 0:16:28.850 --> 0:16:31.520 we won't give you any flexibility about how you pay it. 0:16:32.290 --> 0:16:36.060 That's pretty damn rude. And the government just can't seem 0:16:36.100 --> 0:16:38.630 to get the messaging right on this, sir. I don't 0:16:38.650 --> 0:16:40.770 know about you, but it looks a bit to me 0:16:40.830 --> 0:16:43.490 like the wheels are coming off this government. You know, 0:16:43.510 --> 0:16:47.470 they won 94 seats at the election last year. Labor 0:16:47.510 --> 0:16:52.070 was riding high. Anthony Albanese was riding high. But things 0:16:52.110 --> 0:16:55.130 have taken a big turn. They're down in the polls. 0:16:55.770 --> 0:16:58.670 The government spending issue is cutting through. High interest rates 0:16:58.730 --> 0:17:02.330 are cutting through. Cost of living is cutting through. It 0:17:02.370 --> 0:17:05.300 just really seems like the government is struggling to sell 0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:08.530 its message at the moment. which is a pretty quick turnaround. 0:17:09.290 --> 0:17:12.580 It is in trouble, and they just can't get anything 0:17:12.619 --> 0:17:16.640 to land. They look a bit panicked. Clearly, they're not 0:17:16.800 --> 0:17:20.780 across the detail, and they can't get their message together 0:17:20.840 --> 0:17:23.180 as one coherent message, as we saw. Clare O'Neill says 0:17:23.260 --> 0:17:26.780 one thing, and Andrew Charlton says another. I have to say, though, 0:17:26.820 --> 0:17:30.260 it is about time they felt the heat. Now, I 0:17:30.300 --> 0:17:32.260 don't know if you've seen what's going on in France 0:17:32.420 --> 0:17:34.859 with the student protests. They've been going on for a 0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:37.389 couple of weeks now, but if you haven't seen it, 0:17:37.859 --> 0:17:38.800 this is what's going on. 0:17:39.460 --> 0:17:41.600 There's been fire and fury on the streets of France 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:45.290 as thousands of students protest over school conditions. The riot 0:17:45.310 --> 0:17:48.270 squad use tear gas while clashing with demonstrators on the 0:17:48.290 --> 0:17:52.640 streets of Paris, Toulouse and Strasbourg. More than 500 schools 0:17:52.700 --> 0:17:56.840 were forced to close, while 2,000 people, mostly teenagers, have 0:17:56.859 --> 0:18:00.900 been arrested since the demonstrations began. More protests are planned 0:18:01.140 --> 0:18:01.780 next week. 0:18:02.859 --> 0:18:06.340 So that started as protests against problems that students have 0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:09.540 with the school system. But it's since turned into a big, 0:18:09.619 --> 0:18:13.040 violent movement that seems to have grown a lot larger 0:18:13.380 --> 0:18:16.080 than it was originally intended to be. You've got far 0:18:16.119 --> 0:18:19.060 more groups... than just the school kids involved now. You've 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:21.960 got different racial and ethnic groups getting involved. It's on 0:18:22.030 --> 0:18:25.870 for young and old. Big riots in France. But now 0:18:25.950 --> 0:18:29.990 high school students in Australia are taking inspiration from that 0:18:30.490 --> 0:18:32.370 and saying that they need to get out and fight. 0:18:33.450 --> 0:18:36.930 All over France, we've seen the eruption of student strikes 0:18:37.010 --> 0:18:41.960 and blockades at over 400 schools. Students are fighting back 0:18:42.060 --> 0:18:46.139 against their horrible learning conditions that leave their schools underfunded 0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:51.160 and their teachers continuing to suffer. Despite high schoolers being arrested, 0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:54.640 students have continued to come out and protest against these 0:18:54.700 --> 0:18:58.600 horrible conditions for themselves and for their teachers. These strikes 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:01.690 are inspirational and are something we want to do here. 0:19:01.790 --> 0:19:06.070 We've had two student strikes against Pauline Hanson nationwide and we. 0:19:06.010 --> 0:19:06.750 Want to do it again. 0:19:06.950 --> 0:19:10.109 So you should join High School Anti-Capitals to protest against 0:19:10.170 --> 0:19:10.970 Pauline Hanson. 0:19:14.100 --> 0:19:17.770 So they've looked at violent riots in France and gone, yep, 0:19:18.470 --> 0:19:21.490 let's do that. And of all the days to do it, 0:19:21.970 --> 0:19:27.190 have a guess. They've chosen November 11, Remembrance Day. Now, 0:19:27.700 --> 0:19:31.780 that's not a coincidence. They know what November 11 is, 0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:35.639 and yet they've chosen to politicise that day so they 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:38.350 can make a broad point about how they hate Australia. 0:19:39.020 --> 0:19:41.460 I mean, you look at all that material. They call 0:19:41.480 --> 0:19:44.730 themselves High School and Anti-Capitalist Victoria. You look at the 0:19:44.830 --> 0:19:47.030 flyer for this protest that they're going to have on 0:19:47.070 --> 0:19:50.220 Remembrance Day. It says, no to Hanson, fight the right, 0:19:50.240 --> 0:19:54.379 abolish capitalism. To me, it seems they've chosen to do 0:19:54.440 --> 0:19:58.640 it on Remembrance Day because they don't believe Australia is legitimate. 0:19:59.160 --> 0:20:02.320 They consider Remembrance Day a remembrance of something that should 0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:05.570 never have happened or something that shouldn't exist, more accurately. 0:20:06.330 --> 0:20:08.950 And so they've chosen what should be a solemn day 0:20:09.590 --> 0:20:13.770 to run their silly protest. In fact, that is probably 0:20:13.830 --> 0:20:16.110 minimising it too much to call it a silly protest, 0:20:16.750 --> 0:20:19.810 because if they're taking inspiration from what's happening in France, 0:20:20.510 --> 0:20:22.830 they are indicating that they want to go out and riot. 0:20:22.850 --> 0:20:25.520 I mean, what else are you meant to take from it? 0:20:26.080 --> 0:20:29.639 That video that I played to you before, imploring people 0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:32.620 to go out and protest, was posted two days ago. 0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:35.300 So it was done in the full knowledge of the 0:20:35.359 --> 0:20:37.960 violence and the rioting that is going on in France 0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:40.520 at the moment. And that is what they're pointing to 0:20:40.980 --> 0:20:43.470 and saying is their inspiration to go out and protest 0:20:43.630 --> 0:20:47.689 again on Remembrance Day. When people tell you who they are, 0:20:48.130 --> 0:20:51.650 believe them. You know, I thought it was pretty repugnant 0:20:51.670 --> 0:20:55.760 yesterday when people went out and held protests that called... 0:20:55.520 --> 0:20:59.600 They called them vigils, of course, for Gaza on October 7. 0:20:59.600 --> 0:21:02.040 On the day of the worst slaughter of Jews since 0:21:02.060 --> 0:21:05.060 the Holocaust, they chose not to commemorate that loss of 0:21:05.119 --> 0:21:08.050 life but to claim... that it was a day that 0:21:08.090 --> 0:21:12.480 the genocide of Palestinians started. And as I said last night, 0:21:13.180 --> 0:21:16.540 you absolutely have the right to protest, but have a 0:21:16.560 --> 0:21:22.400 bit of decency. Protesting on Remembrance Day is just thoroughly wrong. 0:21:23.380 --> 0:21:27.470 Protesting about anything on Remembrance Day is wrong. It is 0:21:27.510 --> 0:21:30.929 a day to remember those who sacrificed their lives for 0:21:30.950 --> 0:21:34.949