1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:03,400 Speaker 1: Gooday team, Welcome to the new project. Craig. Anthony Harper 2 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: reporting in for Judy as I always do, Tiffany and 3 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: cook over there at typ Central High. 4 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:12,879 Speaker 2: Top of the morning, Harps, how are you? I'm very good? 5 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 2: How are you? 6 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 1: You're looking very healthy and very resplendent post COVID. How 7 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: do you feel? 8 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 2: I tell you what. It just felt like an overnight 9 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:24,119 Speaker 2: recovery with that bad boy. It was very nasty for 10 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:26,759 Speaker 2: four days and then I woke up and I was like, oh, 11 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 2: is that it? Are we good? 12 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:30,479 Speaker 1: Is that it is? 13 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 3: There? 14 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:35,240 Speaker 1: No post COVID trauma, no loss of anything, no loss 15 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 1: of energy. 16 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 2: I've done some training now I've been good, no breathless nothing. 17 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:41,919 Speaker 2: I feel In fact, as I said this to you 18 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 2: last night, I feel better because of the rest that 19 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 2: it gave me, the mental rest. I feel amazing. 20 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:50,520 Speaker 1: Well, good for you. Maybe I should get it. Maybe 21 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: I should go and lick someone on the face who's 22 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 1: got cut. So if anyone's got COVID come out of 23 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 1: in my joint. I want to lick your face. That's disgusting. 24 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 1: Debbie Milman High, Hi, Craig, how are you really good? 25 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: Thanks for coming to play on the You project. Have 26 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 1: you been smashed by COVID or have you managed to 27 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:08,959 Speaker 1: avoid it? 28 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 3: I have, somehow, by the grease of all that is 29 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:14,400 Speaker 3: good in the world, been able to avoid it. 30 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 1: Well, look at you, ducking and weaving the virus like 31 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 1: like some kind of pandemic ninja. 32 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:23,199 Speaker 4: Exactly, exactly. Wow. 33 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 1: And where do we find you? Where are you there? 34 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:27,679 Speaker 1: I was going to say this morning, this morning for us, 35 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 1: but this evening for you? Whereabouts are you? 36 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 3: I am in Los Angeles, California, where it is seventy 37 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:35,400 Speaker 3: degrees and sunny. 38 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: Wow, tough gig. Oh, well, somebody's got to It's. 39 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:42,480 Speaker 4: A tough in the air, and you know, but somebody's. 40 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:44,040 Speaker 1: Got to do it in the middle of all that adversity. 41 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: You just hang in there, Okay, we'll we'll be thinking 42 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: about you. So now I had not that this is 43 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 1: not a nice thing, but I didn't know who you were. 44 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 1: And then and then I opened the Debbie Milman door 45 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 1: and you're a big deal. And a bunch of my friends, 46 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: mainly women, went, oh my god, she's fantastic. And I went, apparently, 47 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 1: how does being a big deal sit with you? Is 48 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 1: that okay with you? 49 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 3: Well, it sort of depends on your definition a big deal. 50 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 3: I'm certainly not a big deal in the realm of 51 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:25,240 Speaker 3: the sort of Oprah spectrum, but in the world of design, i'm, 52 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 3: you know, probably a fish in a small barrel kind 53 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 3: of thing. 54 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 1: I feel like you're very, very busy. I was reading 55 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: your bio. By the way, your bio. That's not a bio, 56 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: that's a book. That's a ridiculous bio. You must be 57 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 1: very tired because you do a lot of things. 58 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 4: But can you talk to all the girls like this? 59 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 5: Yeah? 60 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 1: How it's just how I roll. Yeah, that's how I roll. 61 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 1: It's compliments. I do what I can. You know, I'm 62 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 1: working with limited resources. Do you thrive in the middle 63 00:02:58,280 --> 00:02:59,079 Speaker 1: of the busyness? 64 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:01,959 Speaker 4: I think I do. 65 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:02,800 Speaker 1: I was. 66 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 3: Reading a bit today about something that's called. 67 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 4: A version to. 68 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 3: Quiet, where sometimes people, from psychological point of view, given 69 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 3: that you're studying this, sometimes avoid having a moment to 70 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 3: really think by being And I think for a long 71 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 3: time a lot of my motivation for being busy was that, 72 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 3: certainly when I was a lot younger, But these days 73 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 3: it's really more a matter of finally, after forty years 74 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 3: in the business, getting a lot of the opportunities that 75 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 3: I only dreamt of and at this point just being 76 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:49,640 Speaker 3: so grateful that those opportunities have at long last presented 77 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 3: themselves that I have a hard time turning them down 78 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 3: when I wanted them for so long. So you know, 79 00:03:56,960 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 3: I think it's just a matter of trying to do 80 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 3: as much as I can. Now that means something to me. 81 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 3: Before this mortal coil pops off. 82 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 1: Oh come on, come on, that was I reckon, you 83 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 1: got a while. I'm not bloody, I'm not a nostrodamis, 84 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: but I reckon, you got a while? 85 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 4: You do? 86 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:21,039 Speaker 1: You find it easy if you need to do? You 87 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:23,840 Speaker 1: find it easy to turn Can you switch off? Can 88 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: you turn off? Or is that Brian never stopping? 89 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 4: I tend to have. 90 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 3: Trouble with any kind of transition. So as hard as 91 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 3: it is for. 92 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 4: Me to finally turn off and go to sleep. 93 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 3: At night, it's as hard for me to turn on 94 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 3: and get up out of bed. 95 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 4: Oh wow. 96 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 3: I tend to really enjoy wherever I am in the moment. 97 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 3: You know, I live both here in LA and also 98 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:52,720 Speaker 3: in Manhattan, and so when I'm in La, I love La, 99 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 3: and I never want to go back to New York. 100 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 3: And I'm really sort of anxious. 101 00:04:56,360 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 4: And nervous and stressed out about back, and then when 102 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:02,919 Speaker 4: I'm in New York, I'm like, oh, this is great. 103 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 4: I just want to see here forever, and then don't 104 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:07,479 Speaker 4: want to go back to La. So I tend to sort. 105 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:10,039 Speaker 3: Of love it where I am and then have a 106 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:13,159 Speaker 3: hard time transition. But once they do, then I'm happy 107 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 3: here as well. 108 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:19,679 Speaker 1: Now the very brief version of Debbie's bio everyone says 109 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:23,040 Speaker 1: in front of Me Rights a designer, educator, artist, brand 110 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 1: consultant and host of the podcast The Very Big and 111 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 1: Famous and Old like one of the oldest podcasts on 112 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 1: the planet Design Matters, which I had heard of that 113 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 1: I didn't know that was you. But that's that is 114 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: a big deal in itself. Congratulations. But do you want 115 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 1: to expand? Like what is tell Tell the people that 116 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 1: don't know you in Australia here, what do you do? Like, 117 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 1: what's your I know that you're in branding and marketing 118 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 1: and design, but tell us what you do and what 119 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 1: takes most of your time and energy. 120 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 3: Okay, So for a long time, for twenty plus years, 121 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 3: I was president of a brand consultancy, a global brand 122 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 3: consultancy called Sterling Brands. And when I was there, I 123 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:12,160 Speaker 3: worked on the design of some of the world's biggest brands, 124 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 3: Lots of Pepsi products, lots of Gillette products, lots of 125 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 3: Nestling products. At one point, I think in the sort 126 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:23,599 Speaker 3: of heyday of my business, I could have walked into 127 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 3: a supermarket and about twenty percent of what was there 128 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:28,600 Speaker 3: would have been something that I had some involvement with 129 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 3: at some point over the twenty years at Sterling, I 130 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 3: sold the business to Omnicom, one of the big holding companies, 131 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 3: in two thousand and eight. 132 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 4: Stated at Sterling until twenty sixteen. 133 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 3: During that time, I also founded the world's first master's 134 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 3: program in branding at the School of Visual Arts in 135 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 3: New York City, which I still run and that's been 136 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 3: now twelve years, which I love. 137 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 4: I love doing that. 138 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:59,280 Speaker 3: I'm one of the owners of printmac dot com, which 139 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 3: is the web site for Print magazine, and my partners 140 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 3: bought that brand out of bankruptcy from FMW Media and 141 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 3: we've been running it now for two years and hope 142 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 3: to be able to actually bring back a print edition. 143 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 3: And I am a podcaster I've been running I founded 144 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 3: a podcast in two thousand and five, so it is 145 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 3: technically one of the world's longest running podcasts, the first 146 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 3: in design, and I'm about to celebrate my seventeenth year 147 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 3: in the biz and have a book coming out called 148 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 3: Why Design Matters Conversations with the World's most Creative People, 149 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 3: which will be out February twenty second and features about 150 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 3: sixty interviews, essays by the great Tim Ferris, Roxane Gay, 151 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 3: Maria Popova, Stith Heller, and Zach Pettitt, beautiful photographs by 152 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 3: some of the most famous photographers in the world, and 153 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 3: just exerpts from end quotes from other interviews as well. 154 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 3: So it's a big labor of love at weighs five pounds, 155 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 3: it's one hundred and fifty thousand words and designed by 156 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 3: Alex Kalman, who has the distinction of being the offspring 157 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 3: of the late great Teaboard Helman and Myrink Helman and 158 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 3: now as his own business and is a remarkable designer 159 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 3: in his own right. 160 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 1: Do you think that creativity congratulations, that's amizing you are 161 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:33,199 Speaker 1: an inspiration. Do you think that creativity is one in night? 162 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: Is it in a night gift or is it something 163 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 1: that can be cultivated and developed or a bit of both. 164 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 4: I think a bit of both. 165 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:46,319 Speaker 3: I mean, the one thing to look at at children 166 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:50,079 Speaker 3: is how freely they come to drawing and playing and 167 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 3: making things, whether it be building things with legos, or 168 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 3: imagining stories with their barbies, or making things with blocks. 169 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:02,679 Speaker 3: It just seems to be an innate part of who 170 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 3: we are, this notion of creating and making things. Even 171 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 3: in our early modern history, in the case of Less 172 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 3: scou for example, you know, we were beginning and trying 173 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 3: to communicate to each other through drawing symbols to record 174 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:27,200 Speaker 3: our experiences and share our wisdom or our whereabouts, and 175 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 3: we still do that to this day. I don't think 176 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 3: there's any coincidence to the notion of recording our reality 177 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 3: on the walls of caves to recording our reality on 178 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 3: the walls of Facebook. 179 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:44,959 Speaker 4: So I think. 180 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 3: That what ends up happening is also actually something that 181 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 3: happens on Instagram. Is as we get a little bit older, 182 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 3: we begin to compare ourselves to others in our attempts 183 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:58,199 Speaker 3: to draw or play with making things, and become self 184 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 3: conscious that we might not be as good as others 185 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 3: and then stop. Linda Barry talks about this quite a 186 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 3: lot in her work The MacArthur genius who works very 187 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:13,080 Speaker 3: very closely with both kids and adults to help them 188 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 3: find or refine their voice and express their voice. But 189 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 3: most people that can't that think they can't draw, just 190 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 3: don't draw. And the ability to sketch is actually something 191 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 3: that you can learn and the more you do it, 192 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 3: the better you'll get at it, just like anything else. Yeah, 193 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 3: and I think it's sad that we curtail our creative 194 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,199 Speaker 3: impulses because we don't think that we're as good as 195 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 3: someone else or as good as we want ourselves to be. 196 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 1: So interesting, my dad is an artist. It's still alive 197 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 1: henxiety too. God bless his little socks. And he's a 198 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:58,680 Speaker 1: really gifted artist, award winning artist. And I'm more, definitely 199 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 1: more creative than I am academic. And you know, when 200 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 1: I was the first business that I owned was a 201 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 1: screen printing business and a graphic design business. When I 202 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 1: was eighteen. You didn't know that TIF, did you. I 203 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 1: did called Classic screen Printing and anyway, so I had 204 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 1: this little micro business and I was working in gyms 205 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 1: at the same time, and and I, you know, developed 206 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: a whole bunch of stuff and I've written a few 207 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:31,320 Speaker 1: books and all of that. But it was interesting. When 208 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 1: I started my doctorate a couple of years ago, I 209 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 1: was thinking how dry and how bland, and how scientific 210 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 1: and how kind of what's the word? You know, You've 211 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 1: got to operate within this, you know, this set structured 212 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:52,320 Speaker 1: DEBI and oh my god. But the more that I go, 213 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:56,439 Speaker 1: I realized that even in science and even in research, 214 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 1: there's a great deal of creativity because you problem solving 215 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: and solving problems is tapping into the creative part of 216 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 1: your brain, you know, So it's like creativity. Building a 217 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:12,680 Speaker 1: business is creative. It's a creative exercise as he is 218 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 1: making an astray out of clay, as he is figuring 219 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 1: out how to sell a product for a customer. You know, 220 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:22,200 Speaker 1: Like I think, when we think of creativity, we think 221 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:26,719 Speaker 1: of the arts. But creativity is so much bigger than that. 222 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 1: It's pervasive. It's in everything in life. Answering questions, like 223 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 1: navigating challenges, in relationships, there's a creative component to it. 224 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:40,359 Speaker 1: How do I connect with this person in this situation 225 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 1: to have a meaningful and healthy conversation is in itself 226 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:49,200 Speaker 1: like a creator because you're thinking outside the box. You know. 227 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 1: It's a big thing, right. 228 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 3: Absolutely, I realized a couple of years ago that I 229 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 3: was happy whenever I was making something. Now a lesson plan. 230 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 3: I could be a podcast, it could be a bed. 231 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:09,080 Speaker 3: A meal of making something gave me great satisfaction. 232 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:13,080 Speaker 1: I love that. When did you when? And how did 233 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:16,200 Speaker 1: you think? Debbie Milman before anyone else in the world 234 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 1: was doing it, I'm going to do a podcast. Where 235 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 1: did that come from? Was it cold a podcast then? 236 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 1: Or was it just some kind of broadcast that morphed 237 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:26,200 Speaker 1: into What tell us about that? 238 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:27,199 Speaker 4: Sure? 239 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 3: Well, in two thousand and four, I got a cold 240 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 3: call from at the time a fledgling internet radio network 241 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 3: called Voice America, and it came at a time when 242 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:43,359 Speaker 3: I was beginning to feel a bit unfulfilled creatively. Ironically, 243 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 3: I had really struggled for the first twelve or thirteen 244 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 3: years of my career in sort of finding what I 245 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:51,079 Speaker 3: wanted to do. 246 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 4: I didn't have a lot of direction. 247 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 3: I fell into branding quite by accident once I did 248 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 3: twelve years after I graduated college, so there was some 249 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 3: struggle there. I fully dedicated myself to what I was 250 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 3: doing because it was the first time in my life 251 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 3: that I actually, quite by accident, was successful at anything 252 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:15,200 Speaker 3: and gave up all of the other more creative side 253 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 3: projects that I had always done my whole life, just to. 254 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 4: Sort of feel good about living. 255 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 3: I was quite active in making textiles and sewing. 256 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 4: My mother was a seamstress, so I did a lot 257 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 4: of sewing. 258 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 3: On my own, needle point drawing, painting, I had a 259 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 3: number of art shows. I was always writing, always filling 260 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 3: up journals and writing really bad poetry. 261 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 4: When I got to Stirling and found. 262 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 3: This sort of success as a brand consultant, I abandoned 263 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 3: everything and just twenty four to seven dedicated myself to 264 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 3: the business, which was wonderful for the business, but after 265 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 3: about a decade or so, was not as good for 266 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 3: my soul, certainly not my creative soul. And just at 267 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 3: the time I was feeling this, contacted by the folks 268 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 3: at Voice America asking me if i'd be interested in 269 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 3: hosting a radio show, an internet radio show about branding, 270 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 3: and I thought they were offering me a job, and 271 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 3: I was like, oh, I might get rich doing this, 272 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 3: you know, sort of like bugs Bunny with the eyes 273 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 3: with the money side spinning, when in fact, what they 274 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 3: were really asking me to do was pay them to 275 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 3: produce a radio show, so it was really a vanity project. 276 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 3: But at the time I was so desperate for a 277 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 3: purely creative endeavor. I countered to them and said, well, 278 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:35,960 Speaker 3: can it be about design? I can certainly inject some 279 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 3: branding into it, but that would really make me happy, 280 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 3: you know, as a creative person, and I was paying them, 281 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 3: so they said yes, And so that's when February fourth, 282 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 3: two thousand and five, Design Matter was Design Matters was 283 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 3: born on Voice America and it was broadcast live. 284 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 4: It had radio, it had commercials inserted in a woll show. 285 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 3: It was repeated in the wee hours of the morning, 286 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 3: you know, on some dark and stormy night. 287 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 4: And one of my friends who. 288 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 3: Had founded the first design blog, Brandy Gomez Plasi, who 289 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 3: co founded it with her husband Armand Vitt, suggested that 290 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 3: I upload my digital file to iTunes. 291 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 4: At the time, there was no podcast section as. 292 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 3: An indie musician, just so that anybody could listen to 293 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 3: the show whenever they wanted and they weren't beholden to 294 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 3: being in front of their computer or device. 295 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 4: In two thousand and five, there was no iPhone yet 296 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 4: that they could then listen whenever they wanted. 297 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 1: On demand Dabbie Millman on demand DMOD. 298 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 4: And so that's what I did. I started to upload 299 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 4: the show. By October there was. 300 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 3: A podcast section on iTunes, so I got lucky in 301 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 3: that I was one of the first in that section. 302 00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 4: And I've been doing it ever since. I left America. 303 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:05,440 Speaker 3: After one hundred episodes, started to independently produce the show 304 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 3: and joined forces with the Ted Audio Collective last year. 305 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 3: I still own the podcast, but they helped me grow 306 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 3: the brand, so to speak, and. 307 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 4: Help me with advertising and whatnot. 308 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 3: And so it's been the gift of a lifetime and 309 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 3: truly unexpected gift of a lifetime. 310 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 1: Congratulations, it's bloody amazing. We just did the same or 311 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 1: similar here. We just joined with a big media organization 312 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 1: over here called Nova. Shout out to Nova. They've been 313 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 1: awesome to us and helping us and you know, getting 314 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:43,199 Speaker 1: us abotisers and all of that. I feel Debbie, like 315 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:48,720 Speaker 1: people say to me, because I do work a lot, right, 316 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:51,160 Speaker 1: I do a lot, you know. I have the podcast, 317 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 1: and I do corporate speaker. I do a lot of 318 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 1: other stuff, run programs and mentoring, and I'm studying full time, 319 00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 1: which is a bit crazy. But none of it feels 320 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 1: like work. So I never have that. I never had that. 321 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:06,360 Speaker 1: I never had that experience of feeling overworked. I might 322 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 1: feel a little bit tired, but I feel like, if 323 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 1: you have a podcast like you do or I do, 324 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:18,160 Speaker 1: it's one of the biggest scams ever because I get 325 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:20,160 Speaker 1: to talk to you. I'm never talking to you if 326 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 1: I don't have this podcast, I'm never even getting through 327 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 1: to the person who's three rungs below you. Right If 328 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:28,160 Speaker 1: I want to try to get to you, and I'm 329 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 1: just Craig Harp with the buff ed from Melbourne, there's 330 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 1: zero chance I get to talk to you. But because 331 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 1: of this wellout no no, no, no, that's true. Trust me. 332 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 1: No one's letting me in the front door. But you know, 333 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 1: because we have this thing, you know, we get to 334 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 1: you get to I get to talk to all these 335 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:51,959 Speaker 1: brilliant people with great minds, great stories, great experiences, great insights, 336 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:55,120 Speaker 1: and I feel like I get free coaching seven days 337 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 1: a week. 338 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:00,240 Speaker 4: Well, I feel the same way her. 339 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 3: You know, I would never be able to have Simon 340 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 3: Sinak or Malcolm Gladwell. 341 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 1: You know, I'm so jealous by the way. Malcolm Gladwell 342 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:08,400 Speaker 1: bloody hell. 343 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:12,159 Speaker 3: Yeah, he's amazing, and he's actually become a friend over 344 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:12,879 Speaker 3: the decade. 345 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:15,920 Speaker 1: All right, stop bragging, all right, stop it. 346 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 3: Were friendly, I wouldn't you know, he's not like my 347 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 3: best vote or anything. 348 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:22,160 Speaker 1: You know. I had to say to Oprah, listen, stop calling. 349 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 1: It's fucking annoying. Okay, like back off, back off, Oprah. No, 350 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:32,440 Speaker 1: it's well, you know her whole on turage's very annoying. 351 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:35,199 Speaker 1: She's super needy. I said, listen, I'll get back to 352 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:40,600 Speaker 1: you when I can. Look, I got a lot on 353 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 1: I'll see what I can do. 354 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 3: Now. 355 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 1: I don't want to take a too hard left turn, 356 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:49,400 Speaker 1: but I feel like I'm not going to do your story. 357 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 1: How what have we got about twenty five minutes justice? 358 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 1: If I don't get you to share as much or 359 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:58,200 Speaker 1: as little as you want. I read about I read 360 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:02,919 Speaker 1: this one line that I went, I have to I 361 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: have to talk about that. And the line was for 362 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 1: the first eight ten years of my life, I lived 363 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:11,880 Speaker 1: in a state of constant terror, and I compensated with art. 364 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:15,960 Speaker 1: Can you share about that for us? 365 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:16,639 Speaker 6: Well? 366 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:19,639 Speaker 3: I had a really rough as a lot of people 367 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 3: have a really rough childhood. My parents got divorced when 368 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 3: I was eight after a really turbulent marriage, and my 369 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:36,439 Speaker 3: mother ended up very quickly remarrying someone who was a 370 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 3: criminal and who was extremely abusive to me, also to 371 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:47,679 Speaker 3: his own children and my brother, but with me in 372 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 3: particular because he was also sexually abusive to me, and 373 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:57,120 Speaker 3: so that that really for four years, really impacted my psyche. 374 00:20:57,760 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 4: I lived in terror every day. 375 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 3: That he was going to attack me, and it wasn't 376 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 3: it wasn't just sexuals also physical. 377 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 4: So he beat us. 378 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 3: And he was a really bad dude, and that really 379 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 3: took a toll on who I was at the time 380 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:20,639 Speaker 3: and who I've become, But less so now in that 381 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 3: I've feel like I've worked through quite a lot of 382 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:26,720 Speaker 3: it in therapy for a very very long time now 383 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 3: as a result work to help eliminate sexual violence in 384 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:33,679 Speaker 3: our culture. I do a lot of work with an 385 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:38,920 Speaker 3: organization called the Joyful Heart Foundation, where we have sought 386 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:43,200 Speaker 3: to eradicate a real challenge that we have, certainly in 387 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 3: the United States, with what's known as a rape kit backlog. 388 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:50,120 Speaker 3: So after a person is raped, evidence is collected from 389 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:54,479 Speaker 3: their body. It's an arduous experience polease and doctors and 390 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 3: so forth, and that evidence is put into what's called 391 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 3: a rape kit, and that that can be used to. 392 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 4: Find the perpetrator through DNA evidence and so forth. 393 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 3: Over the decades, there's been a real backlog to these 394 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 3: kits where they're not used to find perpetrators based on 395 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:18,359 Speaker 3: the whole slew of reasons, whether the police feel that 396 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:22,719 Speaker 3: somebody is a good enough victim, and a whole slew 397 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:24,440 Speaker 3: of reasons. So we've been working to do that in 398 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:28,719 Speaker 3: the United States and have been very, very successful in 399 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:31,119 Speaker 3: doing this, and I hope that we'll be able to 400 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:34,399 Speaker 3: eradicate the rape kit backlog by the end of this decade, 401 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 3: if not sooner. So in many ways, while I would 402 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:43,959 Speaker 3: not wish my background on anyone, I think that working 403 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 3: through that background in the way that I have has 404 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 3: really helped me take a lot of that energy and 405 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:52,919 Speaker 3: try to use it to make the world a better place. 406 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:58,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, it gives you, you know, sadly, but I guess 407 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:01,159 Speaker 1: maybe for the benefit of others, it gives you a 408 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:06,080 Speaker 1: perspective and an understanding of what happens that isn't spoken 409 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:10,680 Speaker 1: about enough and isn't addressed enough, And you know, good 410 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,240 Speaker 1: for you, I'm so sorry to hear that, But at 411 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 1: the same time, good for you for what you've been 412 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,920 Speaker 1: able to do proactively and positively Off the back of that, 413 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 1: do you consciously step into lean into things that are hard, Like, 414 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 1: do you choose to step into discomfort? I feel like 415 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 1: maybe you just maybe you do or do you avoid it? 416 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 4: As a matter of fact, I think the opposite. 417 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:41,639 Speaker 7: Really, Yes, Yes, I am a person that lose discomfort, 418 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 7: and I'm talking about both sort of tangible discomfort like 419 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:48,640 Speaker 7: labels on shirts. 420 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:50,680 Speaker 4: The person I had to do before anything. 421 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:54,399 Speaker 3: Is cut off all the labels because I don't like 422 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:55,400 Speaker 3: the way it feels. 423 00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:58,360 Speaker 4: I only like to wear really comfortable shoes. 424 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:04,359 Speaker 3: You know. I'm a for clean and I really don't 425 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 3: like to be in any kind of. 426 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,320 Speaker 4: Discomfort at all. Maybe that comes from my upbringing. 427 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 3: And sort of what I experienced in my body physically 428 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:13,159 Speaker 3: when I'm younger. 429 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:14,800 Speaker 4: I really don't like discomfort. 430 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 3: And then the other part is, and I've studied this 431 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 3: quite a bit, the way that the human body responds 432 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 3: to trauma and fear with you know, in the reptilian brain, 433 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 3: which is the oldest part of the brain, which is 434 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:30,439 Speaker 3: a part of the brain that you can't control it. 435 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:35,720 Speaker 3: Everything that happens that's motivated in the reptilian brain is involuntary, 436 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,439 Speaker 3: and so a lot of the responses that we have 437 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 3: to fear are involuntary. 438 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,199 Speaker 4: If we were walking across the street nearly hit by 439 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:43,439 Speaker 4: a bicyclist. 440 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 3: We wouldn't demand our bodies manufacture adrenaline. 441 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 4: It would happen involuntarily. 442 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 3: And so I think that most people that are saying 443 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,040 Speaker 3: things like oh, I'll do that when I feel better 444 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,359 Speaker 3: about X. So when I feel more confident about why, 445 00:24:57,720 --> 00:24:59,880 Speaker 3: you know, those things don't happen. You have to intention 446 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 3: only sort of lean into the discomfort and Craig, I 447 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 3: do almost everything I can to avoid that until I 448 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:06,200 Speaker 3: have no other. 449 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:06,879 Speaker 4: Choice, but do it. 450 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 1: I don't know, I feel like you've done it. I 451 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 1: feel yeah, you say that, but you've done a lot 452 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 1: of hard stuff, right, You've built this brand and business, 453 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 1: and you yeah, I don't know. I don't know. 454 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:20,360 Speaker 2: I might. 455 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:20,879 Speaker 4: You know. 456 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:25,119 Speaker 3: It wasn't like I was intending to start a podcast. 457 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 3: It was an offer. It wasn't an aspiration. I didn't 458 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 3: grow up thinking I want to be a podcast coach 459 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 3: to day or I want to be a brand consultant. 460 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 4: That wasn't it. 461 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 3: A lot of these experiences happened quite by accident, and 462 00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 3: because I wasn't as invested in them being as successful 463 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:42,679 Speaker 3: as they could be. 464 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:47,400 Speaker 4: There was not a sense of, well. 465 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,879 Speaker 3: If I don't do this, well I'm a failure. It 466 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 3: was more I'm being given this opportunity. It's not what 467 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 3: I chose, but I'm going to try it because it 468 00:25:55,640 --> 00:26:00,040 Speaker 3: sounds really interesting, and then ended up really enjoying do 469 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,639 Speaker 3: them and then working to build them. So there was 470 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,199 Speaker 3: a little bit less at stake in terms of my 471 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,440 Speaker 3: entry point into these things. It wasn't like I decided 472 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:15,000 Speaker 3: when I was little, I want to be Madonna. 473 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:18,359 Speaker 4: And then went and tried to become Madonna. You know. 474 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:20,960 Speaker 4: It wasn't like that type of driven. 475 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:26,160 Speaker 1: What what are the things that you are naturally good at? 476 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 1: Like just gifts that like, I'm naturally good at this, 477 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,760 Speaker 1: and what are the things that you've worked to get 478 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:32,359 Speaker 1: good at. 479 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 4: I'm naturally good at. 480 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 3: Looking at a person and saying that person kind of 481 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 3: looks like that person, don't they? Now it might not 482 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,400 Speaker 3: be somebody famous like Craig, you look like an old 483 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:48,680 Speaker 3: neighbor I named Alan Silverman. 484 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 1: Shout out to Al, just just saying. 485 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 4: Tiffany looks like one of my former students named Kelsey. Wow, 486 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 4: I got to do that instantly, instantly, I can't help it. 487 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 4: And I'll say that to friends like does and so 488 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:03,440 Speaker 4: and so look like so and so and they're. 489 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 3: Like, oh my god, now that you say that they do. 490 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 3: That's inherent talent that I have. I think it comes 491 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:13,160 Speaker 3: from pattern recognition. I also have an incredibly good ear, 492 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 3: so when I hear a song, I'll be able to say, Oh, 493 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:18,919 Speaker 3: that's going to be a big hit. I just have 494 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:21,360 Speaker 3: that ability. I'll also be able to say that's not 495 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 3: going to be a big hit, and I generally am 496 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:27,400 Speaker 3: right about that too. What else am I good at? 497 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:31,200 Speaker 3: I can write perfectly mirror backwards, so you can tell 498 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 3: me anything and I could write it mirror backwards, show 499 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,119 Speaker 3: it to you, and I can do it instantly as 500 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:38,120 Speaker 3: if I were writing frontwards. 501 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 1: You're good at turning four words into an acronym in 502 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,399 Speaker 1: less than one second, like Debbie Milman on Demand DMD. 503 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,000 Speaker 1: I'm like, that came out of your ma. That came 504 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,399 Speaker 1: out of your mouth before I even finished. I'm like, 505 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,679 Speaker 1: that is a very quick brain. I don't know if 506 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 1: anyone else picked that up, but you said that so quickly. 507 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 1: That is data process at its fondest. 508 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you, I think again it comes from 509 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:08,159 Speaker 3: pattern recognition that that is probably one of my biggest gifts. 510 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:10,800 Speaker 3: And that would also give you a long list of 511 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 3: things that I'm not good at. 512 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:14,960 Speaker 1: What about the things that you've had to that you 513 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 1: for for your journey, you needed to get good at 514 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:20,720 Speaker 1: that you had to work on that perhaps weren't natural 515 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:22,320 Speaker 1: you know, talents. 516 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 3: Well, certainly podcasting. If you listen to my early shows, 517 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:31,360 Speaker 3: they're unlistenable. I'm with you, may too, It's I think 518 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,359 Speaker 3: it takes a long time to get really good at 519 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:35,680 Speaker 3: anything unless you're a prodigy. 520 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 4: I mean, if you think about how. 521 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 3: We grow and develop when we're born, you know, we 522 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 3: can't walk on our own, we can't eat on our own, 523 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:46,800 Speaker 3: we can't manage our bathroom facilities on our own. 524 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 4: You know, we have to learn all of these things, 525 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,239 Speaker 4: and some of the things take some time. Like you know, 526 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 4: there are young kids. 527 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 3: You know, my nephew, for example, took him until he 528 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 3: was five to be fully potty trained. 529 00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 4: It doesn't even seem. 530 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 3: Possible that it would take some time like that, Like 531 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 3: it seems so natural for us and so unthinkable to 532 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,800 Speaker 3: have any other way of relieving ourselves now. But it 533 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 3: really takes quite a long time to do those things. 534 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:11,640 Speaker 3: And if we can do them well, you know, then 535 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 3: we'll have if we are able, walking confidence or talking confidence. 536 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 3: But we live in it in a time where I think, 537 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 3: because of this speed of technology, there is this sense 538 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,720 Speaker 3: that we should be able to do anything and everything 539 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 3: really really well out of the gate, just by this 540 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,400 Speaker 3: year of virtue of wanting to And you know, I 541 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:35,360 Speaker 3: tell my students that almost anything worthwhile takes a long time. 542 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:39,320 Speaker 3: And again, unless you're a prodigy, why would we expect 543 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 3: that we could be a great designer or a great podcaster, 544 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,960 Speaker 3: or a great market researcher, or great trend forecaster, or 545 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 3: great anything without. 546 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 4: Spending the time to master that. 547 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:54,360 Speaker 3: Discipline, which takes a really long time most of the time. 548 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:57,480 Speaker 1: I always say, you can't get good at what you 549 00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 1: want to do, and you can't master what you avoid. 550 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,960 Speaker 1: You know, Oh I want to steal that, Yeah, steal it, 551 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 1: feel free. Can't get good at what you won't do 552 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:09,200 Speaker 1: or what you don't do. And I mean even with us, 553 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:13,240 Speaker 1: you know, we're nearly seven hundred episodes deep, and for 554 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,920 Speaker 1: the first three hundred episodes, we made a dollar thirty 555 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 1: seven a show, and you know, I was my mum 556 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,680 Speaker 1: and three of her friends listening, and you know, it's 557 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 1: it's like, this is this is the training, this is 558 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:27,560 Speaker 1: the apprenticeship. You know. With everything that I've done, I'm 559 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 1: not naturally very talented or gifted, but I've done really 560 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 1: well at some things. But it's only because I've persevered, 561 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,400 Speaker 1: you know, and learning to run a business, learning to lead, 562 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 1: learning to create teams, learning to keep clients, customers happy. 563 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 1: All of those things were just when I started. I 564 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 1: had no idea I had, you know, even as in 565 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 1: corporate speaking, I've been standing in front of audiences for 566 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 1: thirty years, but I never did a speaking course. I've 567 00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,120 Speaker 1: never done a podcasting course. I've you know, I talk 568 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 1: about human be maybe my whole life with people, but 569 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,520 Speaker 1: it's only now I'm actually listen researching it officially, you know. 570 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 1: And I just think there's that people learn differently. Even 571 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:15,680 Speaker 1: though I'm doing my doctorate, I'm very I'm more of 572 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,920 Speaker 1: an experiential learner. That's how I learn best, is that 573 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,040 Speaker 1: the call face is doing stuff and interacting with humans 574 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:26,400 Speaker 1: and kind of learning that way. Is that similar for you? 575 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 4: Very much? Very much. I tend to really struggle at 576 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:38,400 Speaker 4: the beginning of anything because I've grown to. 577 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 3: A point where I get very impatient with myself for 578 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,080 Speaker 3: not being good at something when I try it, and 579 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:44,880 Speaker 3: when I'm not good at something, I then don't want 580 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:46,320 Speaker 3: to do it because I don't like the feeling of 581 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 3: not being good at something. But I have to work 582 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 3: through that, and that's a learned a learned way of living, 583 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 3: because otherwise I won't be able to end up being 584 00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 3: good at. 585 00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,000 Speaker 4: Anything if I don't put in the time and the effort. 586 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 4: And I resist doing things that I. 587 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 3: Don't feel like i'm good at because I don't want 588 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 3: to be embarrassed or humiliate myself. But that's really necessary. 589 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 3: Although I do have to say that when I was 590 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 3: first starting the podcast, I didn't really have this sense 591 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:16,280 Speaker 3: that I. 592 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:17,560 Speaker 4: Was as bad as I was. 593 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 3: Well, you know, because I might not have continued. I 594 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 3: actually put my heart and soul into doing it. 595 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:26,240 Speaker 4: It's only looking. 596 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 3: Back, you know, years and years and years later and 597 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 3: listening to these unlistenable episodes that I thought, oh my god, 598 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:32,680 Speaker 3: what was they doing? 599 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:37,280 Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, but for the time, with the skill 600 00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 1: you had, the understanding, the experience, the resources, you know, 601 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:43,480 Speaker 1: it was for where you were at. It was probably 602 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,160 Speaker 1: as good as you could do and be. And absolutely 603 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:48,720 Speaker 1: I look back at my stuff to it. I literally 604 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 1: say to my listeners, don't listen to the first time 605 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 1: if you've just joined us and knew that in new 606 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 1: pro new to this podcast, don't start at number one, Definitely, 607 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:00,680 Speaker 1: don't start just start In the last hundred or so, 608 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:10,440 Speaker 1: it dawns on me that branding in a way intersex 609 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 1: with psychology. 610 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:13,240 Speaker 4: Oh my god. 611 00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:17,520 Speaker 1: I mean it's essentially psych understanding what's going to make people, 612 00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:20,800 Speaker 1: what's going to attract Correct me if I'm wrong, But like, 613 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:22,640 Speaker 1: it's how do we attract people, how do we get 614 00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:24,920 Speaker 1: people's attention, how do we get them to want to 615 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,880 Speaker 1: buy or at least consider this product or this service 616 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:31,440 Speaker 1: or this brand. There's a huge amount of psychology in 617 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:33,280 Speaker 1: branding and marketing, right. 618 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,960 Speaker 3: Absolutely, economic psychology, behavioral psychology. 619 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:39,880 Speaker 4: Absolutely, that's the part I find most fascinating. 620 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:46,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, even with I had three podcasts before this which 621 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 1: were all very niche, and one of them was the 622 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:54,000 Speaker 1: Australian Fitness Podcast right, and it was a good show. 623 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:57,480 Speaker 1: But it's just for what I wanted, which was broad connection. 624 00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:01,920 Speaker 1: The problem in inverted Comma's that as a concept and 625 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,840 Speaker 1: shout out to Uss, my friend who now has that podcast. 626 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,080 Speaker 1: I gave him. I handed over the reins and he's 627 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 1: doing a great job. But the problem is that ninety 628 00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:11,680 Speaker 1: percent of Australians are going to go you know, that 629 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:13,560 Speaker 1: doesn't interest me. It's just I want to listen to 630 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,800 Speaker 1: something more global or broad or you know, so even 631 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:20,239 Speaker 1: trying to come up with like I remember thinking, how 632 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:24,600 Speaker 1: do I build something where I can not pigeonhole myself 633 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:27,160 Speaker 1: but I can talk about whatever I want, as long 634 00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:29,759 Speaker 1: as it's about the human experience, whether or not it's 635 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:34,000 Speaker 1: finance or business, or relationships or dealing with grief or 636 00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 1: mental health staff or childhood trauma, or how to build 637 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,160 Speaker 1: a business or grow a brand, or how to laugh 638 00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:43,719 Speaker 1: your ass off. It's silly shit, you know, It's like, 639 00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:47,239 Speaker 1: there's no And it took me quite a while to 640 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:49,799 Speaker 1: figure out how to build something big enough that had 641 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:53,399 Speaker 1: a broad appeal. But even that is a psychological kind 642 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:55,160 Speaker 1: of a process of getting there. 643 00:34:55,920 --> 00:35:01,040 Speaker 3: Absolutely, and I actually feel very similarly in the evolution 644 00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:03,960 Speaker 3: of Design Matters. Initially, when I launched the show, it 645 00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:07,560 Speaker 3: was designers talking about design very inside. 646 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:08,320 Speaker 4: Baseball, as they'd say. 647 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:12,319 Speaker 3: And what I began to realize is that I was 648 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:16,000 Speaker 3: interested in not just talking to designers, but really any 649 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:20,319 Speaker 3: type of creative thinker, and that includes scientists, to really 650 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:24,320 Speaker 3: understand how they went about designing their lives and their careers. 651 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:28,279 Speaker 3: And that was as important to me as what they 652 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:30,600 Speaker 3: were making, you know, how they were making it, how 653 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,120 Speaker 3: they approached what they were making was as important as 654 00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:34,000 Speaker 3: what they made. 655 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,840 Speaker 1: Now I have a weird request. So one of my friends, 656 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:41,359 Speaker 1: So a friend of mine got blown up a few 657 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,600 Speaker 1: years ago in an industrial accident. His names John, and 658 00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,680 Speaker 1: I've been training him for four years, rehabbing him, and 659 00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:49,760 Speaker 1: they said he'd never walk in all that stuff anyway. 660 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:53,440 Speaker 1: Good news is his but his wife, her name's Jenny 661 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:58,759 Speaker 1: Shembry Portelli, we call a JSP. She loves you. When 662 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:01,200 Speaker 1: she heard you were come up on the podcast, she 663 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:05,399 Speaker 1: was like a fucking kid at Christmas. She's like, how 664 00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:09,680 Speaker 1: did you get her? Oh my god? I'm like, well, 665 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:14,000 Speaker 1: tifted that it's not I don't do that. So one 666 00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:16,640 Speaker 1: could you say hello to JSP for me? It will 667 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:17,640 Speaker 1: make her life. 668 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:22,799 Speaker 6: Hey, JSP, it's so so so nice to meet you. 669 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:25,880 Speaker 6: And guess what I'm going to be in Melbourne in March, 670 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:30,880 Speaker 6: so if you want to meet, I would. 671 00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:32,799 Speaker 4: Be very very happy to do that. 672 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:36,840 Speaker 3: I'm coming for a couple of speaking events and would 673 00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,960 Speaker 3: love to be able to say high in person. 674 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,480 Speaker 1: Well, now I'm jealous, and what about me? Though? The 675 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:48,000 Speaker 1: only child reaches out puts up, what about me as well? 676 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:49,719 Speaker 4: Be in Sydney and in Melbourne and. 677 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 3: Meet there from March eleventh through the sixteen. 678 00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:01,480 Speaker 1: Now I well, we're definitely going to catch up. I'm 679 00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:05,359 Speaker 1: going to buy you a skinny cappuccino or something. What 680 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:07,480 Speaker 1: do you drink? What's your preferred beverage? 681 00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:09,360 Speaker 4: Prosecco? 682 00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:12,480 Speaker 1: I don't even know what that is. That's way too 683 00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:13,879 Speaker 1: fancy for me. What is that? 684 00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:19,120 Speaker 3: It's Italian champagne. Essentially, you can't see this. It comes 685 00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:19,680 Speaker 3: from France. 686 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,319 Speaker 1: We're talking to the man who's never had alcohol, so 687 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:23,880 Speaker 1: that's just okay. 688 00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,520 Speaker 4: Well, then in alt No. 689 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:29,120 Speaker 1: I'll buy you a prosecco if I can find that. 690 00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,920 Speaker 1: So I said, Jenny could ask you one question, and 691 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:41,000 Speaker 1: her question was okay. She wrote, as a woman in 692 00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:46,279 Speaker 1: my sixties, I'm really interested to hear what Debbie is 693 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:51,680 Speaker 1: looking forward to doing in her sixties. By the way, 694 00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:54,279 Speaker 1: and I'm not even being nice sometimes I say this 695 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,239 Speaker 1: to people because I'm trying to be nice. Are you 696 00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:00,560 Speaker 1: fifty eight or nine or something? Did I read sixty? 697 00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:04,960 Speaker 1: You look so stupidly young. Now, I know I say 698 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:11,000 Speaker 1: this a lot, folks. I mean, you look like a tiff. Really? 699 00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:13,960 Speaker 1: How old does she look? Forty? I know I shouldn't 700 00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:17,240 Speaker 1: say she. How old does Debbie look like? You look forty? 701 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:19,400 Speaker 4: Thank you? Thank you. 702 00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:21,920 Speaker 1: I look twenty six years older than you. 703 00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:28,080 Speaker 3: My mother really looked quite young until she hit seventy, 704 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:29,759 Speaker 3: and then it was all downhill from there. 705 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:31,479 Speaker 1: Yeah, well you've got a good ten years, dude. 706 00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:33,200 Speaker 4: So just yeah, that's what I'm hoping. 707 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:37,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, just strap in. What are you looking forward to 708 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:41,480 Speaker 1: in your sixties? That was the question from Jenny. 709 00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:45,320 Speaker 3: Well, I know this is going to sound super lame, Jenny, 710 00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:51,239 Speaker 3: but I'm really hoping to just stay healthy because I 711 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:53,680 Speaker 3: love the place that I am in my life, and 712 00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:56,360 Speaker 3: I want to keep being able to do all the things. 713 00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:56,800 Speaker 4: That I'm doing. 714 00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:00,239 Speaker 3: And with everything that's happened with COVID and I had 715 00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:04,160 Speaker 3: ended up having an emergency at indectomy last year, it 716 00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:08,680 Speaker 3: really gave me a sense of First of all, I 717 00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:12,319 Speaker 3: had never stayed overnight in a hospital for myself since 718 00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:14,799 Speaker 3: I was four years old. I had a hernia out 719 00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,160 Speaker 3: operation when I was four years old, so that's fifty 720 00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:20,400 Speaker 3: six years ago. I was born with it and it 721 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:23,000 Speaker 3: was discovered when I was four. Other than that, the 722 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,000 Speaker 3: only times I've ever stayed overnight in the hospital were 723 00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:29,279 Speaker 3: to be there for other people and help my. 724 00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:30,480 Speaker 4: Family members or my friends. 725 00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:33,920 Speaker 3: To be in a hospital ben and have that sense 726 00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:39,919 Speaker 3: of helplessness and lack of freedom and fear, especially during 727 00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:43,759 Speaker 3: COVID times, was really really scary, and it gave me 728 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:48,680 Speaker 3: a perspective of feeling like health is wealth, and that's 729 00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:52,919 Speaker 3: what I'm looking to try to maintain as far as 730 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,880 Speaker 3: my sixties, I'd actually like to have a sense of 731 00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:58,560 Speaker 3: having less fs to give. 732 00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:03,480 Speaker 1: You can use the whole word, but I appreciate your 733 00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:05,319 Speaker 1: decora it. 734 00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:07,879 Speaker 3: I feel like I have less fucks to give, and 735 00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:10,640 Speaker 3: every year I feel like I have less tolerance for 736 00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:15,680 Speaker 3: more fucks, and so I am really looking forward to 737 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:18,919 Speaker 3: more of that, more freedom to say what I think 738 00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:21,640 Speaker 3: and not be as much of a people pleaser as 739 00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:24,040 Speaker 3: I've been. I've spent my whole life just trying to 740 00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:27,000 Speaker 3: get everybody to be happy, and I don't want to 741 00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:28,960 Speaker 3: feel like I have to do that anymore, and I'm 742 00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:32,719 Speaker 3: feeling less and less committed to having to do that. 743 00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:36,000 Speaker 1: Well, good for you, because that is a that is 744 00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:40,760 Speaker 1: an exhausting paradigm to live in, the people pleasing paradigm, 745 00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:45,640 Speaker 1: your ice, We love you. Thank you for answering gsp 746 00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:50,759 Speaker 1: slash Jenny's question. Where can people find you? Follow you 747 00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:54,000 Speaker 1: by your books, connect with you, send you, abstain amounts 748 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:55,960 Speaker 1: of money for no reason? Where can I do that? 749 00:40:57,200 --> 00:40:58,920 Speaker 4: On Instagram and Twitter? 750 00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:01,680 Speaker 3: I'm just at Debbie Melman d E B B I 751 00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:03,440 Speaker 3: E M I L L M A N. 752 00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:05,239 Speaker 4: Also my website Debbie. 753 00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:11,480 Speaker 5: Melman dot com on the podcast, so I have a 754 00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:13,879 Speaker 5: lot of different ways you can reach out and love 755 00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:16,000 Speaker 5: to hear from people and do my very very best 756 00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:18,440 Speaker 5: to answer people perfect. 757 00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:21,399 Speaker 1: Stay there, we'll say goodbye off air. Thank you so much, 758 00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:26,200 Speaker 1: Debbie Milman. The podcast is Design Matters. Check that out. 759 00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:30,440 Speaker 1: It's it's almost as good as this podcast, but so 760 00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:34,840 Speaker 1: make it your second. Make it your second favorite podcast 761 00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:37,399 Speaker 1: and tune into. Debbie. Thank you so much for being 762 00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:38,280 Speaker 1: on the project. 763 00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:41,000 Speaker 4: Thank you, Craig, Thank you, Tiffany, Thanks 764 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:44,680 Speaker 2: Tiff Thank you Thanks guys, Thanks Debbie, thanks everyone.