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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the heart of it. We are

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Speaker 1: recording on Gadigaland with a very special episode today.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we're joined by two brothers who know a thing

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Speaker 2: or two about the power of looking back, so we

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Speaker 2: can move forward correctly.

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Speaker 1: Now you might actually know their last name. We've got

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Speaker 1: to say this correctly. We've been saying it wrong, haven't we.

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Speaker 1: It's Van Kylenberg. Their cousin, Hugh is the creator of

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Speaker 1: the Imperfect podcast, which you might know. But today we're

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Speaker 1: talking to James and Nick, who've just launched their own podcast,

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Speaker 1: You're a Good Kids. You're a good kid.

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Speaker 3: Thanks, child sometimes needs a.

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Speaker 1: Bit of a spank and oh god.

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Speaker 2: Okay. James is a clinical psychologist, Nick is an audio

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Speaker 2: creative and together they've started a powerful practice of writing

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Speaker 2: letters to your youngest self.

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Speaker 1: Now it's very simple, it's also very moving, and it's

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Speaker 1: really sparked some of the most honest conversations about family

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Speaker 1: and childhood, resilience and connection.

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Speaker 3: So okay.

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Speaker 2: In today's well, the first half of today's episode will

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Speaker 2: dive into James and Nick's own sibling story, the funny,

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Speaker 2: the messy, the meaningful memories of growing up together, and

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Speaker 2: then In the second half, we'll share something really special.

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Speaker 3: One of us will.

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Speaker 2: Read a letter to our younger selves, guided by James

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Speaker 2: and Nick's process.

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Speaker 1: Very much looking forward to this. These brothers are something special.

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Speaker 1: Please welcome James and Nick.

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Speaker 2: Thank Kylenberg. James and Nick van Kylenberg, Welcome to the

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Speaker 2: heart of it. It's great to have the brothers on.

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Speaker 4: Great to be here.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for having us, fellow podcasters. This is going to

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Speaker 1: be an easy conversation, or maybe not. That's saying there's

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Speaker 1: some stuff we might be jumping into that could be

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Speaker 1: a little tricky.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, well, no, it's great to be here. Although I'm

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Speaker 5: a little bit more comfortable on the microphone than my

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Speaker 5: brother Nick over here.

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Speaker 4: But you know, you're getting the practice. It's happening. Yeah.

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Speaker 6: Look, we've only done about what it was, twelve episodes.

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Speaker 6: Yeah so yeah, not seasoned podcasters over here, but yeah,

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Speaker 6: very excited.

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Speaker 2: You've just got the season on your podcast, so that's

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Speaker 2: little sprinkles, but twelve's pretty good.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, we've managed to finish a season that

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Speaker 5: felt like something.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that's so true. So how did you guys meet?

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Speaker 1: What's your love story?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I've known Nick his entire life.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you came first, I did.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, Yeah, No, we a lot of siblings fight. But

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Speaker 5: if I may speak on our behalf, you might tell

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Speaker 5: a different story, Nick, but.

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Speaker 6: I'll correct you if you get anything.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, no, I feel nothing but nostalgia for you. And

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Speaker 5: we were kind of best mates from the beginning. As

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Speaker 5: far as I recall, there's about well not about there's

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Speaker 5: literally four and a half years between us.

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Speaker 4: Maybe that's part of why we got along.

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Speaker 5: Well, we weren't too close in age to be overly competitive,

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Speaker 5: but yeah, we got along great.

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Speaker 4: I think.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, worth mentioning there's another sibling as well, So we've

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Speaker 6: got a sister who's eleven years older than me.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but three of us.

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Speaker 6: Were getting on really well. I think that's very true,

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Speaker 6: not very competitive, and yeah, James, as an older brother,

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Speaker 6: has been very protective, very supportive. So yeah, we're a

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Speaker 6: story of very close brothers and that's continued into adulthood

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Speaker 6: and now working together, which is ye, just a real treat.

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Speaker 1: That's really special.

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Speaker 3: And you grew up in Melbourne, we did. Yeah, we

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Speaker 3: use sports lovers.

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Speaker 4: Our dad is the sports lover.

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Speaker 5: Officially, cricket is a religion in our family, but it's

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Speaker 5: one that we didn't really get the bug. I know

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Speaker 5: that's very on Australian to say that they tried.

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Speaker 4: To pass it on.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean i'd say, you know, the interest in

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Speaker 6: AFL stuck a little bit more with you, but not anymore.

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Speaker 4: I brag for Esden, So.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, Pretzels, I'm gonna look at some sort of divorce

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Speaker 5: I think with the al anyway, that's that's a separate issue.

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Speaker 5: But no, I'm well, Nick and I are both.

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Speaker 4: Very musical, but he is very sporty. I am not.

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Speaker 4: I am very uncoordinated when it comes to anything sport.

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Speaker 5: But you actually Nick a natural and I was watching

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Speaker 5: the athletics, you know, World championships, thinking of you in

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Speaker 5: your state finals and triple jump and quite accomplished.

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Speaker 6: I had some success early on, but yeah, the interest

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Speaker 6: didn't stick for me either. So it's funny how that happens.

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Speaker 6: As a kid. Do you love love something and it

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Speaker 6: just tails off.

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Speaker 1: It's such a it's such a wild sport that.

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Speaker 2: How do you get infused? It's such an awkward event.

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Speaker 6: What's not to love about jumping into sand pits?

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Speaker 4: That?

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Speaker 3: But it's the hop skip jump that happens.

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Speaker 1: Before and how did that become a sport? Like, how

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Speaker 1: did that become an Olympic sport? Like created that one?

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Speaker 1: Rather like there's a long jump and and there's that one.

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Speaker 5: Like it's so interesting someone who did the long jump

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Speaker 5: awkwardly and created a new sport.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this works for me better. So let's make this.

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Speaker 2: I dragged my foot and I've.

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Speaker 3: Got to jump over something else before I do it.

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Speaker 5: No, if I may give Nick a compliment, he's been

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Speaker 5: a natural at most things he's tried. But it's true,

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Speaker 5: whether it's triple jump or in high school there was

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Speaker 5: a period of breakdancing and then fire twirling up that. Right,

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Speaker 5: you are someone who just tries random things and excels

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Speaker 5: at all of them.

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Speaker 4: That's what I would say about you.

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Speaker 6: That's kind. I would say. I dip my toe in

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Speaker 6: the water of lots of different things and then move

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Speaker 6: on to the next before I excel. So a little

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Speaker 6: bit of a master of nun tray everything.

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Speaker 2: So the Dado brothers grew up down on the Morning's

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Speaker 2: Peninsula on a bunch of land, like so we had

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Speaker 2: land all around this, plenty of space to do things

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Speaker 2: like we didn't actually if we thought of doing fire twirling.

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Speaker 3: We might have done it, you know.

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Speaker 2: Tied some tied some bits of material on the end

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Speaker 2: to sticks and lit them up with gasoline on the end.

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Speaker 4: It is impressive.

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Speaker 3: Did you guys.

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Speaker 2: Grow up with land on fresh air around you so

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Speaker 2: you could try all these different things?

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Speaker 6: I wouldn't describe it like that. I think we were

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Speaker 6: very suburban in terms of the location. I don't think

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Speaker 6: space was a big part of it necessarily, but we

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Speaker 6: had the freedom to try lots of things, and I

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Speaker 6: think our parents are very supportive of pushing us in

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Speaker 6: lots of different directions.

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Speaker 5: So the chance of you lighting something on fire with

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Speaker 5: your fire dwelling was high.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was the curtains. It wasn't necessarily a tree

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Speaker 1: after that. And James, you was a clinical psychologist. What

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Speaker 1: led you there?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah, that's an interesting story. So how do I

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Speaker 4: answer this?

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Speaker 5: Recently, I had the opportunity to go on our cousins

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Speaker 5: podcast The Imperfect, and that was my first experience of

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Speaker 5: speaking like this in terms of being a psychologist out

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Speaker 5: in the open. And I told the story of when

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Speaker 5: I was at school having gone through some bullying experiences,

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Speaker 5: and I I was reflecting on that and I've never

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Speaker 5: really spoken about it publicly, but I think it was

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Speaker 5: quite formative from sort of an early age. I would

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Speaker 5: have been around ten years old and it was happening

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Speaker 5: for a few years, and I remember at the time

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Speaker 5: thinking there's just no support, there's nothing like you know,

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Speaker 5: kids are just myself and others like me were just

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Speaker 5: a bit alone and adrift without much help. And as

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Speaker 5: I got to the end of high school, I think

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Speaker 5: I just started to think I would love to be

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Speaker 5: able to work with kids who had been, you know,

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Speaker 5: going through something like I was in those years and

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Speaker 5: help them.

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Speaker 4: That's how it started.

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Speaker 5: So I did a doctorate in child and adolescent psychology.

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Speaker 4: But actually what's happened.

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Speaker 5: I did and have got to do that, which has

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Speaker 5: been fantastic working with kids, but in more recent years

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Speaker 5: something more up your alley. I've been doing a lot

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Speaker 5: more couple's work and working in the relationship space, which

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Speaker 5: has been very interesting as well. But I think my

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Speaker 5: entry point initially was I would like to help kids.

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Speaker 1: Do you have kids yourself?

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Speaker 5: I do, Yes, I have two cheeky girls, a six

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Speaker 5: year old and an eleven year old.

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Speaker 1: Oh, so you're in the trenches like working with that

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Speaker 1: as well as having studied it so you can kind of, yeah,

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Speaker 1: bring that to them too.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I wish that made it easier.

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Speaker 2: But I was going to ask you in the theory

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Speaker 2: of psychology and then of how to parent, and then

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Speaker 2: when you're actually in the trenches doing it, it's quite

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Speaker 2: a different thing, isn't it.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes it absolutely is.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, when you're emotionally attached, it's all real and good

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Speaker 5: to try and give helpful advice and help people who

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Speaker 5: you're not emotionally attached to necessarily, But when you're in it,

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Speaker 5: very different story. I think you'd agree, Nick, I do, indeed, Yeah, Nick,

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Speaker 5: Nick's got boys, different story, Yeah, I do.

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Speaker 6: I got started really early as well. So I was

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Speaker 6: a young dad, So I was twenty two when I

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Speaker 6: have my first So my eldest is actually about to

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Speaker 6: turn seventeen, so I've got seventeen and thirteen year old

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Speaker 6: And it's yeah, it's remarkable all the different stages we've

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Speaker 6: been through, and just yeah, looking at them as grown

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Speaker 6: up teenagers, it feels like, yeah, it's just such a

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Speaker 6: different stage at every point, but it's a really special

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Speaker 6: one we're in at the moment.

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Speaker 1: Have you been able to get counsel from your older brother,

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Speaker 1: and his knowledge is.

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Speaker 6: That constantly at every stage.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, that is absolutely reciprocal. Nick is my go to guy.

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Speaker 4: I find him so full of wisdom.

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Speaker 5: And if you had ever chosen to be a psychologist, Nick,

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Speaker 5: I think you would have been a very good one.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, tell us a little bit about you know, growing

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Speaker 1: up and your parents. You know, you've clearly they instilled

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Speaker 1: in you a love of each other because of how

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Speaker 1: kind you are to each other, and you know clearly

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Speaker 1: you're curious, you're artistic in so many ways. Did you

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Speaker 1: have parents that were very engaged with you? Was it

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Speaker 1: something that really they fostered in you, that communication and

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Speaker 1: that curiosity.

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Speaker 5: We have the most beautiful parents. They are just big,

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Speaker 5: open hearts, but they're also very funny, and I don't

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Speaker 5: think they'll mind me saying this. We grew up in

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Speaker 5: a home that was religious. We were a Christian family, Anglican,

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Speaker 5: but also equally Mum, they're very, very musical, and they

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Speaker 5: are like seventies Folky's right. They played you know, folk

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Speaker 5: guitar together and sang on stage for many, many years,

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Speaker 5: and then once they had kids, we just got added

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Speaker 5: to the band one by one. So in the end, well,

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Speaker 5: we were the von Trapps. Mum was obsessed with the

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Speaker 5: sound of music. Yeah, so I had this image and

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Speaker 5: I was like, how would I describe my family, Like

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Speaker 5: if you imagine the start of the sound of music

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Speaker 5: with Julian Andrews spinning around, except it's Jesus. That's kind

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Speaker 5: of our family upbringing. Now, you know, we could go

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Speaker 5: into this or not. We're not religious anymore, nick can I.

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Speaker 5: But there's so much about that upbringing that I think

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Speaker 5: we're very nostalgic for because it was just so lovely,

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Speaker 5: Like we sang Grace at dinner in five part harmony

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Speaker 5: and we were super embarrassing, but we didn't know that.

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Speaker 6: Well, it is the thing that you just accept as

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Speaker 6: normal whatever you are surrounded with as kids. And on reflection,

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Speaker 6: it was odd, like there was a lot of strange

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Speaker 6: things that happened. Not every family is in a family band,

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Speaker 6: touring around, singing, going to rehearsals, concerts constantly.

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Speaker 4: Well, just music was at.

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Speaker 5: The heart of this family. But Mum and dad, yeah,

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Speaker 5: they are just all love.

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Speaker 4: The two of them.

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Speaker 5: They are beautiful humans and yes, they have definitely modeled

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Speaker 5: that to us. They've also worked for NGOs a lot

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Speaker 5: of their life, like Dad worked for Well Visioned for

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Speaker 5: a number of years and several other NGOs and so that. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: the values of kindness and empathy and compassion were very

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Speaker 5: very strong in our upbringing.

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Speaker 2: Just music, just music still playing a part with you guys,

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Speaker 2: within your families.

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Speaker 4: It's a core element.

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Speaker 5: I'm not actually sure Mum and Dad know how to

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Speaker 5: have a relationship without music. I think they would believe

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Speaker 5: it's probably the core component, would your greening.

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Speaker 6: Yet and still every family function just descends into music

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Speaker 6: to this day.

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Speaker 4: Dad Eric his name is.

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Speaker 5: He has a voice that's very similar to like Jean

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Speaker 5: Valjean from Lame is Erup. So it oppens his mouth,

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Speaker 5: this booming tenor comes out.

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Speaker 4: It is God.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, he knows how to hold a room with that voice,

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Speaker 5: which is why you didn't really want to upset. Like

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Speaker 5: It's not that he got upset with us very often,

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Speaker 5: but if he did, you can imagine a scene from

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Speaker 5: Lamis where that big booming voice would we learned not

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Speaker 5: to Yeah, not to upset him too.

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Speaker 2: To your any your kids now playing music, musical instruments.

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Speaker 6: Minor not, and I've encouraged them at every stage and

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Speaker 6: given them the opportunity, and they have gravitated towards sport,

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Speaker 6: which is totally fine. And I've always had the approach that,

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Speaker 6: you know, will support them in whatever they want to do,

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Speaker 6: give them the opportunities, see where they want to take it.

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Speaker 6: So they're not playing music, but I must say they're

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Speaker 6: obsessed with it. And I see my eldest the love

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Speaker 6: that he has for music. He doesn't go anywhere without it.

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Speaker 6: He's got his AirPods in constantly, every shower, every moment

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Speaker 6: of the day, he's got music playing. So I think

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Speaker 6: the love and the passion for music is definitely passed

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Speaker 6: on whether you.

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Speaker 4: Play it or not.

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Speaker 5: And he's recently got a record player, which I'm excited about.

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Speaker 5: So sharing the cool kids are. Yeah, I don't think

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Speaker 5: we don't share vinyl because his collection is a little

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Speaker 5: different to mine.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but even so, I appreciate that he's into it.

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Speaker 2: So and a mom and dad still pulling out the

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Speaker 2: gut string guitars and playing those at Christmas time, and.

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Speaker 4: They really do.

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Speaker 5: I'm very musical myself. Nick is too, but I do

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Speaker 5: a lot of concerts with my friends. We have a

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Speaker 5: group called Music Legends Productions, and we put on shows

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Speaker 5: around town in theaters where I play a lot of piano.

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Speaker 5: So I started off with a Billy Joel show and

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Speaker 5: we've since added Paul McCartney show, as I'm in a

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Speaker 5: Garth Funkle show at Cat Stevens show.

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Speaker 4: So it's that.

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Speaker 5: Era of music that we perform all the time, and

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Speaker 5: every single one of those is a great excuse to

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Speaker 5: get Dad and sometimes Mum up on stage to sing

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Speaker 5: with us. So there's harmony and it's wonderful. So that's

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Speaker 5: a great way to celebrate that era of music that

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Speaker 5: they kind of bestowed upon us growing up, and now

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Speaker 5: we share it with audiences and it's it's a great thrill.

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Speaker 1: That's beautiful. At what age did you guys discover oh

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Speaker 1: not every family does sing grace like, oh did you

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Speaker 1: did it ever become like oh this is I'm embarrassed

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Speaker 1: or this is weird? Did you have a friend come

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Speaker 1: over and we're you know, what are you guys doing?

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Speaker 1: Do that? What what age should that kind of kick

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Speaker 1: it be?

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Speaker 2: Honest he's going to be a funny story there.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, Oh I don't know if I can tell a

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Speaker 6: funny story. It's yeah, look, honestly, I think I felt

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Speaker 6: a sense of embarrassment creep in more than James. And

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Speaker 6: I'm not proud of that, and I feel I love it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, And I'm now in my adult he's looking back

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Speaker 6: and I'm so proud of my family and I love it.

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Speaker 6: But there was there was definitely a process of going

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Speaker 6: through as a teenager looking around going oh, this is unusual,

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Speaker 6: and that's hard I think for family kids growing up

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Speaker 6: to go oh, my family's different. Not everyone copes with

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Speaker 6: that with class, I think so. Yeah, I think I

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Speaker 6: had some embarrassment, but yeah, and you know my is

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Speaker 6: probably loving music but going into much more abstract, strange

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Speaker 6: sounding things because I couldn't embrace the upbringing in the

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Speaker 6: same way that you have James. Yeah, yeah, we process

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Speaker 6: a different ways.

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Speaker 2: Did you if you ever did have a sleepover and

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Speaker 2: one of your mates came over and stayed over, did

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Speaker 2: you ever say to Mum and dad can we not

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Speaker 2: do this tonight? Or worn or warn your buddy going Okay,

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Speaker 2: this is going to be might be strange. Do you

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Speaker 2: know the words to grace and the and this is

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Speaker 2: how the melody goes?

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Speaker 5: Yeah? Yeah, it was so infused and so normalized for us.

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Speaker 5: I don't actually remember any kind of major embarrassment bringing

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Speaker 5: people in. In fact, I think we always thought of

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Speaker 5: it as a chance to impress them without musical prowess,

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Speaker 5: with the like listen to this.

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Speaker 1: I love that we always talk about this as well.

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Speaker 1: Our kids all grew up in the Ridolf Steiner education

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Speaker 1: and it's just a very it's beautiful. It's very nature based,

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Speaker 1: and you sing, you sing everything, and you actually do

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Speaker 1: sing a grace before food, and it's so it's so lovely,

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Speaker 1: and you know, there was I asked that question before

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Speaker 1: because our all three of our kids hit a point

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Speaker 1: where they were like, this is dumb and this is

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Speaker 1: stupid and and you know all that stuff. But now

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Speaker 1: that they're young adults, all three of them go, no,

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Speaker 1: I'm totally bringing up the kids the way I was

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Speaker 1: brought up. I'm absolutely because they look back on it

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Speaker 1: now and go, no, that was actually great. It was

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Speaker 1: without screens. It was nature, it was knitting, it was

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Speaker 1: We'll tell them.

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Speaker 2: That story that you were saying to me the other

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Speaker 2: day about River going to the she went. Three of

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Speaker 2: our son went into the classroom where Ali was teaching

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Speaker 2: in a non stein Of school, and he said, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, first of all, because you know, it was all

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Speaker 1: fluorescent lights and a million trillion posters on the wall

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Speaker 1: of what to do and not what to do, and

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Speaker 1: all the fiver all that sort of stuff, And it

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Speaker 1: was such an a whelming experience for him. And then

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Speaker 1: when he came, you know, at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: he goes, Mom, I can't believe it, Like the kids

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Speaker 1: don't know how to knit. He'd never met a child

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Speaker 1: that didn't know how to knit, and it just blew

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Speaker 1: his little mind that there's others, there were kids in

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Speaker 1: the world that.

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Speaker 3: Did not.

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Speaker 1: So they would knit together at school. But I just

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Speaker 1: I love that and I love that. Yeah, you now,

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Speaker 1: as adults, you look back and go, that was a

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Speaker 1: really cool childhood. You know, this is how it's grown.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it was definitely unusual, but it was very full

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Speaker 5: of love, and so I think, yeah, that's nice that

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Speaker 5: we were very lucky to have a loving home. And yeah,

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Speaker 5: it just also happened to have really funny music.

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Speaker 1: Now, tell us about your What a Good Kid podcast?

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Speaker 1: Whose idea was it? How did it get started?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, so this was my idea. I think you'll agree, Nick, Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 5: I sort of. I mean Nick and I had been

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Speaker 5: looking for something to collaborate on for a while.

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Speaker 4: We love working with each.

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Speaker 5: Other, talking to each other, but this was, Yeah, this

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Speaker 5: idea came off the back of me having been a

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Speaker 5: guest on my cousins Hugh and Josh's podcast The Imperfect

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Speaker 5: I had never Yeah, I'd been a psychologist for about

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Speaker 5: over fifteen years at the time, but hadn't ever spoken publicly,

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Speaker 5: and there was that nervousness actually and stepping into that space,

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Speaker 5: It's like, oh, is this going to work? Am I

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Speaker 5: going to enjoy this? And am I going to be coherent?

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Speaker 5: But it actually ended up being a really positive experience

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Speaker 5: and going really well. And a big part of what

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Speaker 5: I spoke about on that episode was around the importance

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Speaker 5: of our developmental journey, and it's a core part of

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Speaker 5: what I believe in as a psychologist is tapping into

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Speaker 5: our child stories and thinking of our life in context

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Speaker 5: and the building blocks that lead to us becoming the

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Speaker 5: adults that we are. And I think it's a really

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Speaker 5: helped lens, not just in therapy but in life to

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Speaker 5: think about a person in their full context. You can

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Speaker 5: think about that in terms of the nature of our

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Speaker 5: conversations or how we talk to ourselves or how we operate.

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Speaker 4: In the world and our emotions.

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Speaker 5: If we draw on well where does this come from

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Speaker 5: and what's the genesis of these feelings and ideas, I

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Speaker 5: think it's really helpful in so many ways. So the

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Speaker 5: core concept of our podcast is, well, let's get great

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Speaker 5: storytellers on and explore their childhoods and think about how

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Speaker 5: they've become the people they've become. Sometimes, of course, people

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Speaker 5: come on and talk.

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Speaker 4: About great childhoods that we're really.

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Speaker 5: Loving and supportive and safe, and other times they come

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Speaker 5: on and talk to us about very troubled, traumatic childhoods,

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Speaker 5: And regardless, it's really interesting I think you'll agree ning

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Speaker 5: to hear the kind of trajectory of how people cope

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Speaker 5: with that, manage that, and become the people they are

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Speaker 5: as adults. So that's our core idea. And yeah, in

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Speaker 5: so many ways we're hoping that that just helps people

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Speaker 5: reflect on their own stories more and maybe a little

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Speaker 5: bit of a kind of view of themselves when they

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Speaker 5: put themselves in context.

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Speaker 2: Really interesting, Nick, you know you're more into audio and

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Speaker 2: fine arts and philosophy. How was it that or how

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Speaker 2: did did James have to talk you into this. This

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00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:22,160
Speaker 2: is not really your behind your actually turning the knobs

427
00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:23,960
Speaker 2: more than being behind the microphone.

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Speaker 6: That's right, And it was a soft pitch. So when

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Speaker 6: I got involved originally I thought, yeah, I can help

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Speaker 6: you with your podcast. I've got the microphones that can

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Speaker 6: produce it. I'll say a few words here and there.

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Speaker 6: So it was a slow entry for me to get

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Speaker 6: behind the mic. I must say, though, we've always had

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Speaker 6: these chats. So James and I have always been talking

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Speaker 6: about grand ideas, small ideas casually together. So it was

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Speaker 6: it was more a matter of taking that and just

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Speaker 6: making it more official and doing a creative project that

438
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Speaker 6: involved those conversations. But I'm a real believer in his

439
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:56,560
Speaker 6: insights and what he does. So it's an opportunity to

440
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Speaker 6: support James in coming out as a public psychologist, and

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Speaker 6: it's been illuminating for me. This first season has been

442
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:06,280
Speaker 6: so wonderful learning along with our guests I suppose, and

443
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,520
Speaker 6: our audience, but just the insights that have come, the

444
00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:13,439
Speaker 6: vulnerability that people share. But then just the insights you

445
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:17,600
Speaker 6: get and the sense of putting people in context gives

446
00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:20,560
Speaker 6: you such great empathy and compassion for people and yourself.

447
00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:23,399
Speaker 6: So I think it's a really worthwhile project, and we're

448
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:24,960
Speaker 6: just getting started, so I'm excited for more.

449
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:26,760
Speaker 5: You've touched on something there I think is core to

450
00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:28,760
Speaker 5: our kind of mission in a way, like we think

451
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,680
Speaker 5: that there's a kind of epidemic, I would say in

452
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:33,720
Speaker 5: the counseling, and there's an epidemic of people being very

453
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:34,400
Speaker 5: self critical.

454
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:34,680
Speaker 4: Right.

455
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:38,399
Speaker 5: Our inner voice can be incredibly harsh on ourselves. People

456
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:42,439
Speaker 5: listening will probably be nodding to themselves yes, and trying

457
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:45,359
Speaker 5: to find a way to soften that inner voice is

458
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:47,919
Speaker 5: core to what we're trying to do in psychology, but

459
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:50,280
Speaker 5: just in general, in the way we have conversations, just

460
00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:52,200
Speaker 5: a kind of view of each other or a view

461
00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:54,640
Speaker 5: that adds context. I think is really helpful to kind

462
00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,240
Speaker 5: of really see the heart of the person and see

463
00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:00,840
Speaker 5: where their ideas and emotions might be coming from, so

464
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,000
Speaker 5: that we can care for each other better.

465
00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:04,600
Speaker 4: Is really what we're trying to do.

466
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:09,840
Speaker 1: Have you noticed that there's sort of a common theme.

467
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,359
Speaker 1: I know that I know you're only twelve episodes in,

468
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:14,600
Speaker 1: and I'm sure there will be a lot more to calm,

469
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:18,840
Speaker 1: but there is there an overarching common three theme with everyone.

470
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:22,840
Speaker 5: I think we're really interested in a really broad canvas

471
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:27,480
Speaker 5: of stories, and so we get an interesting cross section

472
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:30,560
Speaker 5: of humanity that hopefully by the time whenever this project

473
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:32,960
Speaker 5: is finished, we look back and go, well, that's incredible,

474
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,199
Speaker 5: Like just how many different kinds of humans we've spoken to.

475
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:36,640
Speaker 4: But the common threat I.

476
00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:39,159
Speaker 5: Would say so far is just the incredible resilience of people.

477
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:45,160
Speaker 5: Sure that regardless of like some stories we've heard I'll

478
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:48,800
Speaker 5: name the episode we spoke to author and comedian Rosie

479
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:54,760
Speaker 5: Wordland and podcaster She's a wonderful, beautiful human but her

480
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:58,160
Speaker 5: story is up there with the most tragic, traumatic stories

481
00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 5: you'd ever hear. Yeah, every risk factor a person could have,

482
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:07,600
Speaker 5: she had it. And yet now she's a thriving, compassionate, connected,

483
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,080
Speaker 5: social person. How do you get from A to B?

484
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:13,240
Speaker 4: You know? I find that incredibly fascinating.

485
00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:16,080
Speaker 5: So almost every story that we've spoken to people, there's

486
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:17,880
Speaker 5: a point of vulnerability that they've been happy to share,

487
00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,720
Speaker 5: which has been great, But then we hear where their

488
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:24,119
Speaker 5: resilience comes from, and I find it, ultimately, even though

489
00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 5: they're going to dark places, a really encouraging process.

490
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:29,639
Speaker 6: I might add as well. Another thing that I've found

491
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,040
Speaker 6: incredibly moving has been speaking to people who are now

492
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:35,240
Speaker 6: parents and who get to reflect on how they were parented,

493
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:37,399
Speaker 6: what they went through as kids, and just looking at

494
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:39,720
Speaker 6: the ways that informs how they go about it. That

495
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:42,200
Speaker 6: might be modeling and copying the things that worked really

496
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 6: well for them, or trying to break the cycle of

497
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:47,119
Speaker 6: things that didn't go so well. Sure, that's special hearing

498
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 6: people talk about what they've been through and how they're

499
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:50,920
Speaker 6: changing the course for their family.

500
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,359
Speaker 5: Yeah, and it's sometimes a turning point, isn't It's like

501
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 5: they can kind of hang in there with their own

502
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,760
Speaker 5: wounds or things that they suffered through as children until

503
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 5: they have children themselves, and then it comes time for

504
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:04,399
Speaker 5: the work to be done to sort of reflect on

505
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:05,879
Speaker 5: themselves and what's going on.

506
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:07,439
Speaker 4: So, yeah, that's been quite interesting.

507
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:10,200
Speaker 1: It's always Oh sorry, I was going to say, I'm

508
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:14,760
Speaker 1: always fascinated to be It'd be interesting to have you know,

509
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:19,399
Speaker 1: siblings on as well, because it always fascinates me. You know,

510
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 1: you might have alcoholic parents and of the three kids,

511
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:27,159
Speaker 1: one is sober for life, one also, one's an alcoholic,

512
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 1: and one is you know something else. It just growing

513
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,399
Speaker 1: up in the same family. And as you were saying,

514
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 1: who takes it as I will never be like my

515
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 1: dad or yeah, I'm like just exactly like my dad.

516
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 1: Just what decides that in amongst you know, the growing

517
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:44,600
Speaker 1: up plays.

518
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:49,200
Speaker 2: And then sometimes you can run so far away from.

519
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,400
Speaker 3: What that that issue.

520
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 2: Is with the parent that I will never do that,

521
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,440
Speaker 2: and you run so far away that you can possibly

522
00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:59,120
Speaker 2: create a problem.

523
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 4: Distance almost overcorrecting.

524
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, the pendulum swung too far.

525
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 4: You're absolutely right.

526
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,399
Speaker 5: And we talk about something called generational trauma. You know

527
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,920
Speaker 5: that the trauma can sort of get passed down one

528
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,880
Speaker 5: child to the next parent to the child. And it's

529
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 5: so exciting I would say in counseling to see the

530
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:23,439
Speaker 5: person who comes in for therapy who says I'm going

531
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,160
Speaker 5: to be the end of that path and I don't

532
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:27,160
Speaker 5: want to pass that on.

533
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 4: To my child. I'm going to do the work.

534
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,719
Speaker 5: That's almost the best thing I would say about being

535
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:36,120
Speaker 5: a psychologist is seeing someone do that, because you're thinking

536
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 5: you're not just helping your child, you're possibly helping generations

537
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,399
Speaker 5: ahead of them as well, because you've done the hard work.

538
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,879
Speaker 2: James A question then, and this is more in the

539
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 2: psychology realm, is this like I can't I know that

540
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 2: I've spoken to my mum and dad.

541
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 3: Nelly and I have done a lot.

542
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:58,159
Speaker 2: Of work in therapy over the years, and both of

543
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 2: our parents questioned us at various times, going do you

544
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 2: need to do this?

545
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:03,920
Speaker 3: Why do you have to go and look back? What's

546
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:07,959
Speaker 3: that all about? Is this? In your opinion? Is this?

547
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,719
Speaker 2: Are we the first sort of generations to be doing

548
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 2: this kind of work?

549
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 3: Yeah?

550
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,199
Speaker 5: It's definitely far more acceptable now, isn't it. And I

551
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 5: think that the mission would be, let's make it even

552
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 5: more right. Let's just normalize conversations about around our shared

553
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,159
Speaker 5: humanity and the things that make us tick and our

554
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 5: emotions and our experiences. I'm encouraging people to be all

555
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 5: the more transparent. And yes, I know that, of course

556
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 5: there's a generational shift.

557
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 2: Yeah.

558
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:36,199
Speaker 5: Even when we were kids, as I was saying, like

559
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 5: my experience of, you know, struggling with friends at school

560
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 5: was that there was nothing silence. There was like stiff

561
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 5: upper lip and you know, come on, just tough en

562
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 5: up and get on with it. Whereas now we're like, okay,

563
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 5: let's talk about what's going on here and try and understand.

564
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,200
Speaker 5: I think it's that's one area that I would say

565
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:54,160
Speaker 5: that we're really improving.

566
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:58,680
Speaker 1: Okay, and Nick you've said that you have two boys,

567
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 1: you know, I think notoriously, we could say often the

568
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 1: boys are less likely to talk about how they're feeling

569
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 1: than girls. How are your boys with conversation and talking

570
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 1: about who they are, what they're feeling, those deep sense

571
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 1: of themselves.

572
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 6: I think that they are more expressive than some of

573
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 6: their peers, but it's still not always easy. And sometimes

574
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 6: sometimes it's about doing activities alongside each other and you

575
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 6: just get little moments and little glimpses. So it's not

576
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:36,399
Speaker 6: probably the sitting down having a heart directly opposite, but

577
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 6: you might be engaged in activities together and you just

578
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:43,400
Speaker 6: get snippets and they're important, they're impactful, So I wouldn't

579
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:49,400
Speaker 6: say it's incredibly expressive, but they're emotionally intelligent. And when

580
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 6: you get those snippets and you win and you get

581
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 6: those moments where they open up and they share, it's

582
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:54,439
Speaker 6: gold and you hold into it.

583
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:56,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, and you've made a big effort nick to live

584
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 5: in their world, I think. I mean, I know you

585
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,200
Speaker 5: share their interest of basketball, you love it, but I've

586
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 5: seen you invest heavily in being a coach and a

587
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,119
Speaker 5: mentor and showing up. You know, you are present and

588
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 5: available in their world in the things that matter to them,

589
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 5: and I think that creates opportunity for connection.

590
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 6: Yeah well, well it's I mean, it's the most important

591
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 6: thing in my world. So yeah, I'll take that. Yeah, yeah,

592
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 6: But not forcing it, I think with teenage boys is

593
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:19,879
Speaker 6: probably all I would say at the moment, is not

594
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,360
Speaker 6: forcing it, being there when they're ready, and just knowing

595
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:25,479
Speaker 6: that communication is available if they want it, but not

596
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 6: being judgmental so that they have a place to open up.

597
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:32,440
Speaker 1: And I guess it wouldn't be a conversation about children

598
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 1: these days if I didn't ask how much of an

599
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: impact do you think screens are having on them? What's

600
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 1: what's your take both of you from that?

601
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 4: What a huge challenge.

602
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 5: This is a generational challenge and one we've never seen

603
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 5: the likes of, have we It's pretty new and evolving quickly.

604
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 5: It's really hard to keep up with. All I can

605
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 5: say is it's really difficult. But the thing that I

606
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 5: pitch to families that ask me this question when you

607
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 5: know kids might be quite a dig to screens or

608
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 5: gaming or something like that, is we want to strive

609
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 5: for balance. There's no chance that we're going tech free

610
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 5: in a modern life. So looking for balance where we

611
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 5: can find it, to try and have a rich meal

612
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 5: of different ingredients.

613
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 4: West. Screens are just one part, not the dominant.

614
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, advice it's going to say when the kids are addicted,

615
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 2: what about what parents are addicted to the screens too?

616
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 6: And yeah, and being honest about that, trying to model

617
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 6: and but just being transparent about your own struggles with

618
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 6: it as parents, I think, involving them in the conversation,

619
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 6: because like James said, it's not going anywhere, No, it's

620
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 6: all right. Yeah, So awareness and just little strategies to

621
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 6: overcome those addictions and ways to control it. There's something

622
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 6: we will have to do together.

623
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 5: Certain things feel like they're starting to tip in the

624
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 5: right direction. I think there's a general appreciation now that

625
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 5: social media is not great, and AI creeping in is

626
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 5: making it worse, like the believability of the information out

627
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 5: there or the things that are you know, just ugly

628
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 5: about it to be more obvious. Maybe that's just my opinion,

629
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 5: but I feel like that's I mean, there's about to

630
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 5: be laws and stated right to protect young people from

631
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 5: social media, and so I'm glad we're taking it seriously

632
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 5: as a challenge as a society because yeah, too much

633
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 5: of that stuff, I would say, is bad for all

634
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 5: of us, and as addictive as it is, we need

635
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 5: to be careful and try and create balance where we can.

636
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 2: Interesting we're talking about just touched on before about your

637
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 2: letters in You're a Good Kid podcast and what you're

638
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 2: asking your guests to do. Just can you talk about

639
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 2: the healing that comes from revisiting childhood?

640
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 4: Yeah?

641
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 5: So this writing a letter to your child self is

642
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 5: borrowed directly from the counseling room, and it's an exercise

643
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 5: sometimes I'll get people to do. In fact, quite often

644
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 5: there's a lot of adults I work with that I

645
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 5: will invite to think about their child's self and penal

646
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 5: letter to or think about how they would talk to

647
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 5: them differently. At first, I think you've struggled with this

648
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 5: a little bit, just the idea of it, Like, how

649
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 5: do you access this? It sounds I don't know, a

650
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 5: bit strange.

651
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 6: Or almost performative, right, you know, I don't believe in

652
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 6: time travel. It's a bit change separation. What do you

653
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 6: mean writing to my younger self?

654
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 1: Yeah?

655
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, so, And I'm very appreciative that there'll be some

656
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 5: people listening, who would feel exactly like that? But where

657
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 5: I think it's value lies. There's a few things. If

658
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 5: we think just even neurochemically, how our brain processes information

659
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 5: and thinks about things, we create associations. And when we're younger,

660
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 5: those associations are stronger because we have less ability to

661
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,959
Speaker 5: think through the things that imprint on us. We're not

662
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:49,480
Speaker 5: you know, rationally going well, is that a good idea

663
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 5: or not? It's just stamping. And so those ideas that

664
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 5: take hold when we're younger are quite profound on our brain,

665
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 5: and the associations that are created, the emotional attachments perhaps

666
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 5: to certain ideas of where we feel safe, where we

667
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 5: feel confident, where we feel insecure, vulnerable, They express themselves

668
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 5: and then we tend to just stack further, you know,

669
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 5: experiences on top of those early experiences. Those early experiences

670
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 5: don't disappear, they're not overwritten. They become the foundation of

671
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 5: everything that we experience after. So in the brain, you know,

672
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 5: those associations are still there.

673
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 4: Are they're getting.

674
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 5: Stronger and stronger and stronger the more they're reinforced. So

675
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 5: you know, for example, if you're someone who grows up

676
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 5: in a loving home and experiences positive social experiences at school,

677
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:39,479
Speaker 5: you're likely to believe that the world is a safe

678
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 5: and happy place where taking risks is worth it, where

679
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 5: people will like you. So you're more likely to be

680
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:47,719
Speaker 5: open to experience and you can see how the positive

681
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 5: experiences will grow vice versa. If you have negative attachment

682
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 5: to your primary caregivers or negative experiences in your youth,

683
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 5: you might believe that the world is not safe. It's

684
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 5: not for me, I'm not worthy, I need to compensate

685
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 5: in order to be loved, et cetera. And we build

686
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 5: on top of that, so the building blocks naturally get

687
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 5: to wherever we are now. So asking people to check

688
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 5: in with their child's self, it's like going, Okay, I

689
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 5: need to kind of think back to the foundation blocks

690
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 5: that go all the way back to childhood and where.

691
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 4: This comes from.

692
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 5: Because my brain is literally built a kind of tapestry

693
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 5: around this idea or this emotional connection. So there's something

694
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 5: very real going on there when we're doing it. It's

695
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 5: not an airy fairy concept. It's anchored in how our

696
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 5: development actually takes shape. So there's that aspect, but I

697
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 5: think there's also there's a natural kindness that we have

698
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 5: when we talk to children, most of us. Most of

699
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 5: us are when a child is struggling, we're going to

700
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 5: say something nice to them. We're going to be encouraging,

701
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 5: and we're going to be gentle, whereas that's something we

702
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 5: don't often afford our adult selves. So thinking about where

703
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 5: does this emotion come from, what's the genesis of it,

704
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 5: where's really the heart of what I'm feeling. I'm triggered

705
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 5: by this thing that's happening now, but actually, probably it's

706
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 5: genesis is when I was ten or when I was five.

707
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 5: I'm going to go back and think about that kid

708
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 5: and kind of evoke him, write a letter to him

709
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 5: and say, hey, here's another way you could look at that.

710
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:13,399
Speaker 5: Here's a different way you can tell that story. He's

711
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 5: a he's a calm and encouraging way, a gentle way

712
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,359
Speaker 5: you can think about it. And what that's doing in

713
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 5: our brain is it's if you think of your your

714
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 5: association I mentioned earlier, like the connection between a fear

715
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,839
Speaker 5: or a you know, I can't do that thing because

716
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 5: I'm not good enough.

717
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 4: That's like an information super highway that's built over the years.

718
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 5: When we say, actually, no, you can think about that

719
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 5: a different way you can associate it with that's okay,

720
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:40,880
Speaker 5: try again. You don't have to you don't have to

721
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 5: do that thing. It's like creating a little off ramp.

722
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,280
Speaker 5: And now we want to strengthen that one and change

723
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 5: the association. So when we think of taking that risk

724
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:52,760
Speaker 5: or getting on a microphone, my brother, it becomes stronger

725
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 5: the more you do it. And now that becomes the

726
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 5: default association that this is safe and I can do this,

727
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,400
Speaker 5: and I am worthy of this, and that builds up

728
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 5: over time. It's a very long winded way of saying

729
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 5: I think the letter is very useful.

730
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:06,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, well I always remember that. You know, people often

731
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,919
Speaker 1: use that example, don't they. You know, when a kid

732
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 1: is a little one is learning to walk and they

733
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 1: fall down ten times, you know you're never going to

734
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 1: say you're an idiot, do not try to walk again?

735
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 1: What are you thinking? Like, no one, I've never known

736
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:26,240
Speaker 1: anyone to say that. I would shudder to think. But yeah,

737
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 1: it we're so encouraging of that. And yet when we

738
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:33,240
Speaker 1: fall down now as adults, we can be horrendously cruel

739
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 1: to ourselves.

740
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, for some reason, we don't afford ourselves the same generosity.

741
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 4: We tend to give others. Yeah, yeah, so it's a

742
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,359
Speaker 4: great focal point I think in just yeah. So that's

743
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 4: why we invite our guests to do that.

744
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 5: And it's also a poignant way generally to end our

745
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:52,880
Speaker 5: episodes where we've talked about childhood and then get someone

746
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:55,280
Speaker 5: to directly address their child's self and we don't comment

747
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 5: on it. It just finishes our episodes with that. And

748
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 5: so sometimes that can be poetic and funny or thought provoking,

749
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 5: but yeah, it's always interesting.

750
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:08,720
Speaker 1: What's the biggest thing that you hope listeners take away

751
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:10,279
Speaker 1: from your podcast?

752
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,320
Speaker 6: I think there's two things going on for us. One

753
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 6: is that we hope, as we've said, people reflect on

754
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 6: their own stories, treat themselves with more kindness, learn a

755
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 6: bit about the different ways that childhood can affect us,

756
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 6: and get to know yourself better, be kinder to yourself.

757
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:29,400
Speaker 6: But even more than that, there's a little bit of

758
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 6: something else going on here, which is a change as saying,

759
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 6: we're trying to get a great variety of people. So

760
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 6: if we get someone who's on the different end of

761
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:38,840
Speaker 6: the political spectrum to you, or someone that's engaged in

762
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:42,320
Speaker 6: someone that you don't quite understand hearing their childhood story.

763
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 6: Putting them in context helps us have greater empathy and

764
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 6: understanding for other people. So I think as well as

765
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:50,839
Speaker 6: being kinder to yourselves, I'm hopeful that it actually might

766
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 6: help us be kinder to people who are different from

767
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:56,319
Speaker 6: us as well. So greater understanding, context, empathy, and just

768
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 6: slower to judgment all around.

769
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: Boy, beautiful And don't we need that right now?

770
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:01,880
Speaker 3: Lord? A judgment?

771
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:05,360
Speaker 6: Yeahs in our little way, in a little humble podcast.

772
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 6: It's just one episode at a time, but I think

773
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:08,840
Speaker 6: it's it's really healthy.

774
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:10,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's the ripple in the pond, isn't it?

775
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:12,440
Speaker 1: That is beautiful exactly.

776
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, And it's a great equalizer. I feel like, you know,

777
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:16,799
Speaker 5: we all have childhoods. Right to state the obvious. So

778
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 5: if we think that we've all come from somewhere humble

779
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:23,279
Speaker 5: beginnings and built our ideas and you know, developed their

780
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,240
Speaker 5: emotional attachments, if we just all remember at some level

781
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:28,280
Speaker 5: we were all innocent, little naive kids.

782
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 4: It's just a yeah, it's a great equalizer.

783
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 2: So then let's turn the tables on you guys. If

784
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:38,799
Speaker 2: your if your youngest self could meet you today, what

785
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 2: do you think you'd be most proud of or they'd

786
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 2: be most proud of.

787
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,919
Speaker 4: Rather you you going to make me emotional? Now? Shall

788
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 4: I go first? Oh? Please?

789
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 6: That's a big question. We get to ask it to

790
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:51,359
Speaker 6: other people. Have it turned on us?

791
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:54,319
Speaker 5: This is one area because I ask my clients to

792
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:56,360
Speaker 5: do this all the time, and we're doing a podcast

793
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:58,319
Speaker 5: about it. I do try and practice what I preach,

794
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 5: and I invoke and think about myself quite a bit.

795
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 4: Take him with me.

796
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:06,840
Speaker 5: He was a sensitive kid and you know, a deep feeling,

797
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 5: deep thinking creative who was pretty naive but also lovely.

798
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:15,319
Speaker 5: So I think about him a lot, and in his

799
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 5: vulnerability and as I said, the kind of response to

800
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 5: the bullying, there was time there where I was quite sad.

801
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,840
Speaker 4: So when with all of this stuff.

802
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,799
Speaker 5: We're doing now and working with Nick and you know,

803
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 5: just trying to help put a few good ideas out there,

804
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 5: I think it's in service of what he was learning

805
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 5: at the time. There's actually a very clear through line

806
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:41,319
Speaker 5: from you know, those difficulties in the playground to then

807
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 5: building towards where I am now. So I feel a

808
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:46,840
Speaker 5: strong connection to him, and I hope that he would

809
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:50,360
Speaker 5: be happy with that outcome, that it was in service

810
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:50,800
Speaker 5: of something.

811
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 4: What would you say Nick.

812
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:57,399
Speaker 6: How about you, Nick, that's beautifully said. I've done less time.

813
00:38:57,600 --> 00:38:59,400
Speaker 6: I've spent less time thinking about this, so it's a

814
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 6: little bit harder for me. I struggle with self criticism

815
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 6: and touching on what we were talking about before. So

816
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:08,840
Speaker 6: I think I think back to my younger self, and

817
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 6: I was sensitive and I was happy, but as I grew,

818
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 6: I was slowly withdrawing, going into a more introverted place.

819
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:20,719
Speaker 6: So I've I've dealt with negative self feelings. But I

820
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 6: always wanted to be a dad. I can always remember

821
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:25,439
Speaker 6: wanting to be a dad and the fact that I've

822
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 6: done that and I've thrown everything into that. I'm very

823
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:31,359
Speaker 6: proud of that, and I think that my child self

824
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:32,960
Speaker 6: would be proud of that as well. So would look

825
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:36,840
Speaker 6: at my beautiful family and my boys and would be

826
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 6: very pleased with who I've become, despite the fact that

827
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:41,759
Speaker 6: I've withdrawn and had some issues along the way.

828
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 4: To hear you give yourself a compliment, it's so rare

829
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 4: for me to hear you do that. Sure.

830
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:48,320
Speaker 6: Yeah, oh well it's not hard with the family.

831
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:49,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, Yeah, that's good.

832
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:53,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, beautiful, we did both right, but I did it.

833
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 4: Oh, this is great.

834
00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 1: I've done it if you have time for both. Ye

835
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:00,800
Speaker 1: maybe do you want to do you do yours?

836
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:07,120
Speaker 5: Can you tell me, like, because we haven't talked to

837
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 5: you about this yet, how did you find this process

838
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 5: and was it something you found strange or did it

839
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:11,839
Speaker 5: make sense to you?

840
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 2: Well, for me, in honesty, I've actually done this for

841
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 2: a book. So someone asked me to write a letter

842
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:24,640
Speaker 2: to myself. And because I've been to so time Pau

843
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:28,360
Speaker 2: the last week or so since we had your request,

844
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 2: I was like, well, go find the book and I'll

845
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,799
Speaker 2: just get I'll just read that out, you know. But

846
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 2: I didn't. I couldn't find the book. So I was

847
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 2: left to go, Okay, now what would I write today?

848
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 4: Yeah?

849
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I wrote a couple of ideas down Okay,

850
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 2: Ali cliche?

851
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:49,239
Speaker 1: Well for me, I was really really I still am

852
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:53,320
Speaker 1: really reticent. I am comfortable in a lot of vulnerable places.

853
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 1: But I was like, oh, how much do I want to?

854
00:40:56,560 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 4: I mean, it's o to say like it.

855
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:02,760
Speaker 5: It takes a lot to go into that space, especially

856
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 5: if there's trauma there, and it certainly shouldn't be something

857
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 5: you know, you do if you don't feel completely comfortable.

858
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:09,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I did a kind of I

859
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,160
Speaker 1: did sort of a little different version in a way.

860
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:15,799
Speaker 1: I just sort of I wrote questions that I wish

861
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:18,320
Speaker 1: I had have been asked as a kid. That's how

862
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 1: I wrote mine.

863
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:21,919
Speaker 3: Now can you do because that sounds great?

864
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 4: You want me to do if you feel comfortable to

865
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:25,799
Speaker 4: do it? Because it sounds like there's a bit there.

866
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:30,759
Speaker 1: Let's see. Okay, Yeah, I think I did questions and

867
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 1: just some things I wish I had heard that. That

868
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:37,919
Speaker 1: was what I what I wrote. So I would love

869
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 1: to sit near you because I love you and I

870
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:43,879
Speaker 1: want to be around you. How are you feeling? How

871
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 1: is school? Tell me more about your day. I'm so

872
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:50,720
Speaker 1: interested to know. What are you drawing? You're so clever.

873
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:53,799
Speaker 1: I'm sticking this picture on the fridge. Let's do some

874
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 1: drawing together. You seem a little sad. Tell me what's

875
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:00,400
Speaker 1: going on. Come and sit on my lap. Choose a

876
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 1: book and I'll read it to you. I have something

877
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:06,839
Speaker 1: fun planned for you. Who else shall we ask to

878
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:09,760
Speaker 1: come with us? Come cook with me in the kitchen.

879
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 1: I love it when we spend time together. Tell me

880
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:15,960
Speaker 1: what you think about this. Your opinion is so important.

881
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:19,239
Speaker 1: You will see me at school for your play, Your

882
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 1: dance concerts, your athletics carnival, your school fate. I'll be

883
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:27,360
Speaker 1: there because I love you. That sounds like you're really hurt.

884
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 1: What can I do and how can I help you?

885
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:32,080
Speaker 1: Right now? Let's go have some fun.

886
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 5: Wow, that's really moving. Yeah, thank you for sharing that.

887
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 1: Thank you.

888
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 5: It's quite telling and yeah, really evocative and yeah, absolutely

889
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:48,240
Speaker 5: it paints a really vivid picture.

890
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 4: Thanks for sharing that.

891
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, my pleasure. Thank you for holding space as beautifully

892
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:53,359
Speaker 1: as you both did.

893
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 3: Wow, that's amazing.

894
00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:59,840
Speaker 2: Would you go through the letter with someone after this?

895
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 5: We don't do the analysis part. We really want to

896
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 5: leave that for just to be a personal thing between

897
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:06,319
Speaker 5: the guests and their child self.

898
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:09,319
Speaker 4: We do a debrief before it where we.

899
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 5: Reflect on themes in the chat and we think about

900
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:14,759
Speaker 5: the conversation that we've just had, and then we really

901
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:18,360
Speaker 5: do want to just leave that poignant part just for

902
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:18,840
Speaker 5: the guest.

903
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:21,320
Speaker 3: I think that's fantastic.

904
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 1: So we can find your podcast Apple, where do we.

905
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:28,279
Speaker 4: Find on all good platforms?

906
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 1: I love it?

907
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:32,360
Speaker 5: And yeah, we're twelve episodes in. We're currently in production

908
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:36,239
Speaker 5: on season two, so we're interviewing some wonderful people right now,

909
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:38,480
Speaker 5: but working towards putting them all out at once in

910
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 5: weekly successions, so it'll be a little while yet.

911
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 4: While we get out of it.

912
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:43,279
Speaker 1: We love it. I love it.

913
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 3: Gratulations you too, It's beautiful.

914
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 2: We do a thing called the rapid heartbeat where we

915
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 2: both want you to where we ask you both to

916
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 2: answer the question. I seem to mess that up every time. Xander,

917
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 2: our producers, sitting there nodding his head, going, can you

918
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 2: cannot set this up without screwing it up?

919
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:04,480
Speaker 3: You get the idea that.

920
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:06,719
Speaker 6: Gives us permission screw up the answers.

921
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 1: We just want you to keep answer.

922
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 3: Just keep him short, That's all all right.

923
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 2: First question, What the world needs now?

924
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:16,359
Speaker 4: Is love? Sweet love?

925
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 3: Trap sing?

926
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:24,439
Speaker 4: Yeah?

927
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 5: Okay, no, not this time. What does the world need?

928
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:30,319
Speaker 5: We need to be kinder to ourselves and.

929
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 4: To each other? Yeah, patience okay, and we also need

930
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:36,759
Speaker 4: Jimmy Kimmel back.

931
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:39,320
Speaker 2: Telly agreed, so true?

932
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 1: What the wild wild? Uh? This won't be This would

933
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 1: be interesting, but maybe hard to choose. What's your favorite

934
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:48,719
Speaker 1: memory together?

935
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:49,720
Speaker 4: Mmm?

936
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 5: I would say instantly our holiday house at Peterborough down

937
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:56,520
Speaker 5: the Great Oshan Road. We used to go to stay

938
00:44:56,560 --> 00:45:00,279
Speaker 5: in a shack until our uncle of means SA and

939
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:02,319
Speaker 5: built a lovely holiday house next door to it. But

940
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:05,280
Speaker 5: until then we just stayed in this shack every September holidays.

941
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:06,960
Speaker 5: They were the most special two weeks of the year.

942
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 5: And I think of playing backyard or front yard cricket

943
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:14,880
Speaker 5: with Dad and Nick and Mum and Lisa the most special.

944
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:16,759
Speaker 1: How about you, Nick?

945
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 6: My mind goes immediately to the backyard. I think we're

946
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 6: just a lot of hours playing there again, backyard cricket,

947
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 6: not that we were any good.

948
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:26,440
Speaker 3: Who is who is warm?

949
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 6: Sunny? Sunny memories in the backyard?

950
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:29,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, lovely.

951
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:32,879
Speaker 2: One word to describe each other.

952
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 6: Why I thought it less encourage.

953
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 5: I'm going to go you're a genius. I'm going to say, yeah, no,

954
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:42,920
Speaker 5: it is true. And I know you're going to throw

955
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:45,080
Speaker 5: that back at me. But Nick is such a natural

956
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 5: at whatever he does. He has one way James.

957
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 3: Genius.

958
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 2: James and Nick, thank you so much for your time. James,

959
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 2: I'd love to talk about the bombers and my psychology.

960
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:02,719
Speaker 1: Of all that they need you. I think it's that

961
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:03,360
Speaker 1: they need.

962
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:07,480
Speaker 2: But all the best they need, all the best with

963
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:10,799
Speaker 2: your good kid, and I'd love to come on and

964
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:11,359
Speaker 2: talk with you.

965
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 3: I'm sure Charlie would.

966
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:15,120
Speaker 4: To guys, I mean, are you guys in Melbourne? Do

967
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 4: you come and down.

968
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 1: This Additionally, our daughter lives down there. Yeah, so always

969
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 1: happy to get down.

970
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 4: There if you're open to it. We would be thrilled

971
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 4: to have.

972
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:28,320
Speaker 1: You absolutely well, honestly, it's been such a joy. Actually

973
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 1: I actually got teary well before reading my letter because

974
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:35,960
Speaker 1: it's the way you both talk to each other that

975
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 1: I actually find so incredibly beautiful and it is unfortunately

976
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 1: a bit rare these days, it is, And just just

977
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:49,400
Speaker 1: the way you speak of each other is so beautiful,

978
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:51,800
Speaker 1: and the fact that you're doing something from the heart

979
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 1: and giving out to the world a really special gift

980
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:58,920
Speaker 1: is incredibly important. So thank you both for giving us

981
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:00,400
Speaker 1: your podcast.

982
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:01,520
Speaker 4: Thanks to the opportunity.

983
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:04,000
Speaker 5: It's actually been really lovely to talk to you both,

984
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:06,080
Speaker 5: and you've been really generous.

985
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:07,719
Speaker 6: And we and we really admire what you're doing as well.

986
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:10,880
Speaker 6: We had a chance to say that yeah, yeah, shows

987
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:11,640
Speaker 6: like yours are.

988
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 5: So important, and well we haven't and what we haven't

989
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:16,759
Speaker 5: talked about, ironically, is relationships. And as I said, I

990
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:19,279
Speaker 5: do a lot of couple's therapy. So if you wanted

991
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:21,040
Speaker 5: to chat again sometime I'd be happy to come back

992
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:21,920
Speaker 5: and we can talk about that.

993
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 1: Sounds great, absolutely, all right,