Speaker 1: Doctor Haleley purlis welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2: Hi, thanks for having me, Thanks.
Speaker 1: For having me again.
Speaker 3: You should say I would say welcome back to the podcast,
Speaker 3: but our listeners have not experienced you before, even though
Speaker 3: I have.
Speaker 1: Interviewed you last week. And I gotta fess up that
Speaker 1: the tech.
Speaker 3: Just had a little grenlin in it after seventeen minutes.
Speaker 3: It's just there was no me and just you talking
Speaker 3: to yourself.
Speaker 2: That happens all the time, and I'm just talking to myself.
Speaker 2: But we got a dry run, we got we got
Speaker 2: simulation training.
Speaker 1: We did.
Speaker 3: We did get simulation training, which is very important in
Speaker 3: peak performance, isn't it. And that's a little nice segue.
Speaker 3: So you are a sports psychologists. Tell us first of all,
Speaker 3: what brought you into that field?
Speaker 2: A great story, if I can say so myself. I'm
Speaker 2: so lucky. I grew up as a ski racer, and
Speaker 2: a pretty good one. And when I was I peaked
Speaker 2: at twelve, so I should say I was a pretty
Speaker 2: good one at twelve.
Speaker 1: Peaked at twelve.
Speaker 2: But I was twelve years old and I was competing
Speaker 2: in the World championship for my age group, and my coach,
Speaker 2: oh wow, and my coach, right before I was about
Speaker 2: to compete, pulls out one hundred I'm Canadian. So he
Speaker 2: pulled out one hundred Canadian dollar bill, placed it in
Speaker 2: front of my face and told me that he had
Speaker 2: bet on me to win this Junior Junior Junior World championship.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 3: That's an interesting technique.
Speaker 2: I don't recommend it, but it.
Speaker 1: Worked really that Wow? So what was the motivation behind that?
Speaker 2: Well, it can go two ways. Right on one hand, yeah,
Speaker 2: handed can go to anger, frustration, worry, fear. How could
Speaker 2: a coach bet on me and tell me? What if
Speaker 2: he's wrong? What if I make a mistake and let
Speaker 2: him down? Flip side? Are you kidding me? Can you
Speaker 2: trust me? You believe in me? That's and I remember thinking, Wow,
Speaker 2: if my coach has high expectations, doesn't that mean I'm
Speaker 2: doing something right? And I went down and I did win.
Speaker 2: This is funny. My coach came down, congratulated me, kept
Speaker 2: all the money for himself, but he said something to
Speaker 2: me that carved out my life. He said, it's amazing
Speaker 2: what your performance can be like when you get your
Speaker 2: head straight. Two weeks later, he brought a sports psychologist
Speaker 2: to come and speak to my team and click click.
Speaker 2: I went home and I told my parents at twelve
Speaker 2: that I wanted to be a sports psy gal when
Speaker 2: I grew up.
Speaker 3: Oh wow, I wonder how many people have a story
Speaker 3: of what they wanted to be when they were twelve
Speaker 3: that they went on to actually do.
Speaker 1: That's really interesting.
Speaker 3: How did you so interesting at twelve years old being
Speaker 3: at the World Championships. What was the pressure like for
Speaker 3: you then? Did you feel the pressure or were you
Speaker 3: just like this twelve year old going this is really
Speaker 3: exciting and didn't really process the wit of what you
Speaker 3: were doing.
Speaker 2: Well. And remember it was the World Championships for my
Speaker 2: age group, right, so it was this big event I was,
Speaker 2: you know, I was chosen as Team Canada. There was
Speaker 2: a lot of excitement, But I don't think. I don't
Speaker 2: think I had like pressure other than the fact that
Speaker 2: I was chosen. I'm good enough to be here and
Speaker 2: to wear the Team Canada jacket, and I think I
Speaker 2: embraced it. I have great parents, great parents, and I
Speaker 2: have even though you put a pressure on me. He
Speaker 2: also I believed coached me to embrace pressure. Pressure. Pressure
Speaker 2: is a privilege. Pressure means you're doing well, and I
Speaker 2: think he ingrained that inside of me, and there was
Speaker 2: I don't think I felt a whole lot of anxiety,
Speaker 2: nervousness and excitement absolutely, anxiety not so much.
Speaker 1: Yeah, very cool.
Speaker 3: I love that pressure is a privilege, and you know,
Speaker 3: often pressure comes with mental blocks. And in your book
Speaker 3: Personal Podium, you talk a lot about overcoming mental blocks.
Speaker 3: And as a sports psychologist, I think that's kind of
Speaker 3: bread and butter, isn't it helping people to overcome mental blocks?
Speaker 3: So what are some of the biggest mental blocks that
Speaker 3: you see with people and how can we address them?
Speaker 3: And before you get into that, I think we do
Speaker 3: need to let people know not only your sports psychologist,
Speaker 3: but you also work with a lot of executives and
Speaker 3: I know a number of sports psychologists and and the
Speaker 3: techniques are very very applicable to the business world, anybody
Speaker 3: who has to our military, anyone who has to perform
Speaker 3: under pressure, Like sports psychology, that's where you want to
Speaker 3: go to, right, So talk to us about some of
Speaker 3: the biggest mental blocks you see in athletes and executives,
Speaker 3: and what are some things that people can do to
Speaker 3: overcome them and where do they come from as well?
Speaker 3: Let's just dive into the word of mental blocks.
Speaker 2: It's true, and you know and similar to you too,
Speaker 2: using the techniques for health behavior change as well, so wellness, business,
Speaker 2: and sport. Fear, fear of failure, fear of success, fear
Speaker 2: of you know, if I do it once, then I'm
Speaker 2: going to have the pressure to do it over and
Speaker 2: over and over again. You know, there's the fear of
Speaker 2: you know, living up to the reputation that I create
Speaker 2: for myself. Competitive anxiety. If people don't know how to
Speaker 2: embrace competition comes, they have a mental block around competition, injury,
Speaker 2: you know, damaging themselves, discomfort, the sacrifices that you're going
Speaker 2: to have to make. You know, with every health behavior change,
Speaker 2: with every success, there are sacrifices and so that comes
Speaker 2: with a whole lot of mental blocks as well.
Speaker 3: And so what are some things that people actually before
Speaker 3: we get into the things that people can do, do
Speaker 3: you find there is a different motivator or a different
Speaker 3: driver between fear of failure versus fear of success. Because
Speaker 3: everybody will have heard a fear of failure, but not
Speaker 3: a lot of people will probably have heard of fear
Speaker 3: of success. Although there are big mental blocks around people,
Speaker 3: you know, just don't do it because then you're going
Speaker 3: to have to live up to it.
Speaker 2: It's a big it's a big thing. And actually there
Speaker 2: are a lot of people who you know, may may
Speaker 2: be talented, may have the mental skill set, but they
Speaker 2: don't want the responsibility of needing to win and stay
Speaker 2: on top. That they won't ever let themselves get there
Speaker 2: because the chase to be first is actually, in my
Speaker 2: humble opinion, easier yeah than staying first. And so Tiger
Speaker 2: Woods said it the best. The difference between the great
Speaker 2: and just the very good is being able to do
Speaker 2: it again and again and again. And the best athletes
Speaker 2: out there, most of them that I can think of,
Speaker 2: don't win all the time because that's not possible. Winning
Speaker 2: isn't loyal to anybody, but they consistently, consistently stay ahead
Speaker 2: of the game.
Speaker 3: And so then talk to talk us through some of
Speaker 3: the things that we can do to address these various
Speaker 3: mental blocks.
Speaker 2: So I offer three suggestions, and we can talk about
Speaker 2: them in general terms so that everyone who's who's watching
Speaker 2: and listening can kind of relate it to them to
Speaker 2: their life. So one way is actually nothing to do
Speaker 2: with your mental and everything to do with your environment.
Speaker 2: And often we will fear, we will have anxiety, fear, frustration, worry,
Speaker 2: anger because of the environment, because the people we're keeping
Speaker 2: around us, or this situation, the physical you know, environment,
Speaker 2: our technique are sorry, not our technique, our equipment, the people,
Speaker 2: the environment. So if we can manipulate the situation, and
Speaker 2: I say that in a good way, we can manipulate
Speaker 2: what's going on outside of our minds. Sometimes that automatically
Speaker 2: relieves the mental block inside. So that's one situation. And
Speaker 2: in the business world, I've had people, you know now
Speaker 2: that many of us are working remotely, I've had people
Speaker 2: just rearrange their office and you think it's you think
Speaker 2: it's you know, maybe simple or insignificant. It can be
Speaker 2: very significant, depending on which window you're looking at, or
Speaker 2: the colors in your room, or the organization. So that
Speaker 2: overwhelm and that frustration can sometimes be taken away with
Speaker 2: just manipulating the environment. I've also had people change locations
Speaker 2: of countries, right, so it can go from small to big.
Speaker 2: If you can't manipulate the external, if you can't change
Speaker 2: your situation, or you can but you don't want to
Speaker 2: because that can bring other stressors. Then we want to
Speaker 2: reframe things, and I'll share a story if I can,
Speaker 2: and I'll use an athlete is a story that I
Speaker 2: tell often because it's I think it will relate to everyone.
Speaker 2: I had an athlete who was a junior athlete, so
Speaker 2: he was nineteen, his last year being a junior athlete,
Speaker 2: and he could practice really well, train wonderfully. He choked
Speaker 2: in competition and the mental block was one of intimidation.
Speaker 2: So in practice, right, it was all about what he's
Speaker 2: going to do to his game, present moment, and in
Speaker 2: competition he was intimidated by three specific opponents. What are
Speaker 2: they going to do to beat me? Is what he
Speaker 2: thought about. That was the mental block, how are they
Speaker 2: going to beat me? The interesting thing was that those
Speaker 2: three opponents were also his teammates. They were there in
Speaker 2: practice when he was focusing on himself. They were there
Speaker 2: in competition when he was focusing on them. So we
Speaker 2: had to we can't change the situation because those three
Speaker 2: opponents are there and everywhere he goes, they're not going
Speaker 2: to quit. He's not going to quit, so we can't
Speaker 2: change it. So I asked him to think about it differently,
Speaker 2: and I asked him a very clear question, what level
Speaker 2: of competition. Who do you want to be competing against?
Speaker 2: People much weaker than you at your level or way
Speaker 2: above you? Who do you want to be competing against?
Speaker 2: You know when it matters most, And he said, I
Speaker 2: want to be competing against my peers. I want to
Speaker 2: be competing against somewhat at my level because then when
Speaker 2: I win, it means something. I also have a chin
Speaker 2: ants of winning because they're not much better. So aren't
Speaker 2: you happy that these three opponents are there with you
Speaker 2: in competition? Aren't you choosing them? And he said yes.
Speaker 2: So instead of saying, oh no, what are they going
Speaker 2: to do to beat me? Thank you opponents for showing
Speaker 2: up today. I want you to bring your best because
Speaker 2: I'm going to use your energy to motivate me to
Speaker 2: bring my very best and beat you. And he reframed
Speaker 2: that story. But then you have to rehearse it, you
Speaker 2: have to train. So he journaled it, he visualized it,
Speaker 2: he talked about it to me, and then he went
Speaker 2: off to Sweden three months later to compete in the
Speaker 2: Junior World Championships, and not only did he beat those
Speaker 2: three opponents, he became the Junior World Champion.
Speaker 1: I'm very cold, very cool, indeed.
Speaker 3: So they we talked a little bit about stress and pressure.
Speaker 3: So what role to Let's talk about how stress the
Speaker 3: role that it plays and performance booths in the business
Speaker 3: world and in the sports world, and how can people
Speaker 3: harness it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a performance enhancer. We can harness it and
Speaker 2: use it. So you have to remember what pressure is.
Speaker 2: We feel pressure for things that we care about. We
Speaker 2: feel pressure for things that we believe we can we
Speaker 2: can have an impact on, we can do something, we
Speaker 2: can be successful. So that's that's actually a sign of
Speaker 2: self belief. And obviously we feel pressure when we're passionate
Speaker 2: about something, when we're motivated to do something, when we're
Speaker 2: in alignment. It's a value of ours. I don't feel
Speaker 2: any pressure when I'm just learning something new and have
Speaker 2: no expectations because I have no confidence. I don't feel
Speaker 2: pressure about us that I don't care about. I feel
Speaker 2: pressure about things that I do care about and that
Speaker 2: I do believe in myself. So we have to remember
Speaker 2: that pressure is a sign of desire and belief. So
Speaker 2: that's the thing. And then what physiologically pressure is is energy.
Speaker 2: Now a great example is you know those butterflies in
Speaker 2: your stomach that we all can feel no matter what
Speaker 2: you're doing. Yeah, those butterflies can be anxiety producing if
Speaker 2: they're swarming all around us taking over our bodies and
Speaker 2: our minds and taking over control. Or they can be
Speaker 2: energy when we take control of them. A great symbolic
Speaker 2: imagery technique that performers use is put those butterflies in
Speaker 2: an inverted V in your stomach, just like birds fly above,
Speaker 2: so that just like birds, we can be efficient. We
Speaker 2: can be effective, We can be fast if we need
Speaker 2: to be fast. So pressure is energy that's inside us
Speaker 2: physiologically that we can then use to go out there
Speaker 2: and make something happen with our strengths.
Speaker 1: That is.
Speaker 3: It actually reminds me of years ago with my kids
Speaker 3: and they were competing in karate and doing kumite, which
Speaker 3: is is combat, which is pretty full on right when
Speaker 3: when when you're a kid, and actually when you're a
Speaker 3: parent watching your kid do any type of sport, you know,
Speaker 3: you kind of get into it and live a bit vicuriously.
Speaker 3: But when you see your kids fight, it's completely different level.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: But I remember and talking to my kids and and
Speaker 3: Kira was at one stage talking about the how she
Speaker 3: was feeling anxious and nervous, and I was saying to her,
Speaker 3: that's just energy, that's all it is, and you need
Speaker 3: to harness that energy. And we did this little process
Speaker 3: around her creating this best self we called what she
Speaker 3: called Shaka, which is a She came up with that word,
Speaker 3: which is I think at Zulu for great warrior, right,
Speaker 3: And she actually decided when she was competing, I think
Speaker 3: was in the Victorian Championships, she said she actually said
Speaker 3: to me, Dad, I'm going to use this energy to
Speaker 3: transform me into shaka. And as soon as I step
Speaker 3: onto the tatami, that energy is going to transform me
Speaker 3: into Shaka, which I thought was really cool. So she
Speaker 3: took a couple of little techniques and molded them together
Speaker 3: and actually use that energy to actually give her that
Speaker 3: lift or to transformer.
Speaker 1: You know that.
Speaker 3: And I don't know if you ever saw the kids
Speaker 3: program the transformers where they would transform into something else.
Speaker 1: And it is really about harnessing that.
Speaker 3: And when you when you talk to athletes and go,
Speaker 3: it's exactly the same like nervousness, anxiety, it is energy
Speaker 3: and all you gotta do is harness that energy. You know,
Speaker 3: you're a kid's lion and just say it's not time yet,
Speaker 3: not yet, right.
Speaker 2: So I was going to say to say an additional
Speaker 2: tool that your daughter used, which is, I know what
Speaker 2: you teach people too, is that best self? Right? So
Speaker 2: when I the difference, one way that we can distinguish
Speaker 2: retain anxiety and arousal, nervousness and excitement is confidence. It's
Speaker 2: really hard to be anxious and confident at the same
Speaker 2: time with anxiety, trying self doubt, nervousness, like this is
Speaker 2: a challenge. I care and you know, like there's a
Speaker 2: lot of there's a lot of energy, and I can
Speaker 2: maintain confidence. So you had the best strength. With everyone
Speaker 2: that I work with, we always start with your top
Speaker 2: three fundamental strengths. And so when when you're experiencing that pressure,
Speaker 2: one way to harness it is to remind yourself that
Speaker 2: this is energy. And I'm going to now choose one
Speaker 2: of those top three fundamentalstal strengths and expose myself to
Speaker 2: that stressor with my strength. And that is how you
Speaker 2: kind of stay away from the anxiety zone and embrace
Speaker 2: the arousal zone, which is where peak performance happens.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's kind of like this Goldilocks effect isn't
Speaker 3: it really when you're talking about pressure, it can't be
Speaker 3: too much, it can't be too little. It's got to
Speaker 3: be just right, because if there's not enough, your body's
Speaker 3: not going to be aroused enough, right. So I think
Speaker 3: having that frame.
Speaker 1: About arousal under arousal, over arousal.
Speaker 3: Optimal arousal, and forgetting about anxiety and what you're talking
Speaker 3: about are those little techniques that just bring the level
Speaker 3: of arousal down into the goldilocks zone where it's really ideal.
Speaker 3: And I think that that's really key for people to understand,
Speaker 3: isn't it is that without pressure, without stress, you cannot
Speaker 3: perform at your best. I think everybody can relate to
Speaker 3: a job that they did at some stage that was
Speaker 3: as boring as batshit, and I think if they reflect
Speaker 3: their performance wasn't great because we all need a level
Speaker 3: of arizal to get ourselves interested in both our bodies
Speaker 3: and our brains right right.
Speaker 2: And I was just noticing your pen. I use the
Speaker 2: same pen. I love it. The four colors.
Speaker 1: Yes, No, it.
Speaker 2: Heightens your attentions. That's what this energy does. That's what
Speaker 2: the pressure of the stress. It heightens our attention. It
Speaker 2: again increases blood flow and a certain level of you know,
Speaker 2: chemicals flowing through your body that we need. But you're right,
Speaker 2: when we go past the point of our ideal zone
Speaker 2: of optimal functioning. When we go past that point, you
Speaker 2: know it's too much muscle tension. Our focus either gets
Speaker 2: too too narrow or sometimes it's too broad that you
Speaker 2: can't focus on anything at all. So our concentration is
Speaker 2: impacted or body is impacted. The mental blocks come flying
Speaker 2: in when it's when you go past that goldilocks, when
Speaker 2: you go past that point of your ideal zone. So
Speaker 2: we need to first identify what our individual zone of
Speaker 2: functioning is, and then you have to create I mean,
Speaker 2: I'm a big believer in just it's not just about
Speaker 2: knowing this, it's it's figuring out how to do it.
Speaker 2: You know, how to get into that zone. And we
Speaker 2: all have visual cues, attentional cues, verbal cues that we
Speaker 2: can utilize to consistently give us our best shot at
Speaker 2: getting into that ideal zone of functioning.
Speaker 3: And so to get all of this right, like how
Speaker 3: important are routines? So you will see anybody who watches
Speaker 3: sport closely will see certain athletes that have certain routines.
Speaker 3: You know, you think of a pretty famous one. Nadal
Speaker 3: the tennis place before he serves, has this little routine
Speaker 3: that he does that it involves picking his undise out
Speaker 3: of his arse as well.
Speaker 2: You actually mentioned that there first go around here. Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 3: Because it's the one that really sticks with me, right
Speaker 3: because it's so noticeable.
Speaker 1: But he does it all of the I did do
Speaker 1: it all of the time. But but talk to us about.
Speaker 3: The importance of those routines and gaining people into that
Speaker 3: mindset or that zone of optimal performance. And and how
Speaker 3: can you know, business people, moms, dads, how can they
Speaker 3: they use some of those techniques to just make sure
Speaker 3: that they're in that zone of optimal functioning because, as
Speaker 3: we said, too little that can just there's no motivation,
Speaker 3: too much and empowers everything from cognition to motor control,
Speaker 3: to reaction time, all of that stuff.
Speaker 2: It's essential, it's essential. And what it does is it's prime.
Speaker 2: It primes your mind, it primes your emotions, and it
Speaker 2: primes your body. And you know, routine, that's how we
Speaker 2: get it into our subconscious. Right. We are creatures of habit.
Speaker 2: But nothing started off as a habit. Everything started off
Speaker 2: as a ritual. Everything started off as these consistent routines,
Speaker 2: and the more we do them, the more they became
Speaker 2: ingrained and then became habit setting usself, setting ourselves up
Speaker 2: for success. And as we mentioned, yes it could be
Speaker 2: you know, picking out your wedgie, but it could be
Speaker 2: certain songs. They are athletes that hum to ourselves. There
Speaker 2: are affirmations mantras there. You know, you'll see people kind
Speaker 2: of lip maybe they're talking out loud, but on TV
Speaker 2: you'll just see their lips moving music. You see top
Speaker 2: performers listening to music all the time that is very
Speaker 2: selective music that they are using to zone in once.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not a random Spotify playlist, is it?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: No, no, no? I Oh her name escapes me. But
Speaker 2: there's this female hurdler. This she dances like you can
Speaker 2: just google the dancing hurdler. Just do an online search
Speaker 2: for the dancing hurdler. And she's got her hands on
Speaker 2: her hips and she's like swaying and happy and you
Speaker 2: go down the line and everyone else is so serious
Speaker 2: and she's just block you know, doing this to keep
Speaker 2: herself enthusiastic and energized because obviously anger does not suit her.
Speaker 2: Before it it does not cryme her. So we can
Speaker 2: do so many different types again, visual cues, physical cues,
Speaker 2: verbal cues. They're all attentional cues that we create a
Speaker 2: routine around that we do consistently that aid us to
Speaker 2: give us the best opportunity to get into that zone.
Speaker 2: And then here's the other thing that I'd like to
Speaker 2: just intervene here too, Not only just about the pre
Speaker 2: performance routine. I'm also a really big fan of the
Speaker 2: post performance routine, so that you can have closure at
Speaker 2: the end. You can put a period at that end
Speaker 2: of your performance, whether it's giving a presentation, whether it's
Speaker 2: you know, having a difficult meeting, going for a five
Speaker 2: k run, whatever it might be, having a post performance
Speaker 2: routine so that whatever happened in that performance does not
Speaker 2: automatically have to have anything to do with your next performance,
Speaker 2: good or bad.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that that's actually a really important point, and that
Speaker 3: that transfer from sports psychology to the business world. And
Speaker 3: I will actually I often talk to the leadership teams
Speaker 3: around this that when I was in the military, every
Speaker 3: every time we went on a flight, so I was
Speaker 3: military air crew, we we did a brief for the
Speaker 3: flight and always, without feel did a debrief right. And
Speaker 3: there wasn't a single flight that I ever went on
Speaker 3: that we didn't do a debrief, and and the debrief
Speaker 3: was about, you know, what went well? Did it go
Speaker 3: according to plant? Did it not go according to plan?
Speaker 1: What?
Speaker 3: What sort of stuff did we learn right? And that
Speaker 3: debrief came came out of really the air crew world,
Speaker 3: because it's a very dangerous game. I remember an old,
Speaker 3: crusty pilot who was was was training us called NIGHTE.
Speaker 3: Hennell told us that when he first got his wings
Speaker 3: and went out onto on his first assignment, he went
Speaker 3: on an aircraft carrier and sealed from Southampton in the
Speaker 3: UK to the Far East, and he said, by the
Speaker 3: time they got to the Far East, half of all
Speaker 3: the air crew were dead. Because operating helicopters off ships
Speaker 3: in the nineteen sixties was particularly dangerous. So they created
Speaker 3: that culture of having a debrief all of the time,
Speaker 3: and then any incidents that happened, everybody heard about those incidents.
Speaker 3: And still to this day, you're not allowed as the
Speaker 3: aircraft captain to sign out your aircraft unless you've read
Speaker 3: all of the aircraft incidents and signed off on them.
Speaker 3: And that whole idea was learning from ourselves, learning just
Speaker 3: those little things that happened consistently that you might not notice,
Speaker 3: but also learning from others.
Speaker 1: So I love that idea of that closure.
Speaker 3: As well and using it as a learning lesson because
Speaker 3: it's really important that we do that right.
Speaker 2: It's essential. And at the time of this recording, Lindsey
Speaker 2: Vaughn just she retired downhill ski racer, retired and then
Speaker 2: at forty came back into ski racing and she just
Speaker 2: earned a silver medal and a World Cup in an interview,
Speaker 2: and she's had so many crashes. She's actually has a
Speaker 2: knee replacement, and I don't know any other athletes that
Speaker 2: have come back after retirement with a knee replacement and
Speaker 2: being away from for six years in her sport. But
Speaker 2: the reason I bring her up is because I was
Speaker 2: just listening to her give an interview and she talked
Speaker 2: about all the past performances and she and I quote,
Speaker 2: learn any race because you have to have and that's
Speaker 2: that closure piece. Do you completely erase it from your memory?
Speaker 2: Not possible, maybe, and you don't not always want to
Speaker 2: do that either, But if you're going to go from
Speaker 2: one performance to the next, you have to be present,
Speaker 2: right the best performers are the ones that are in
Speaker 2: the moment present. So you debrief, you learn, and then
Speaker 2: you momentarily at least erase the performance so that you
Speaker 2: can then move on to the next present performance.
Speaker 1: Nice. I like that.
Speaker 3: And and that idea of president actually leads me into
Speaker 3: another question and around process versus outcome. So what talk
Speaker 3: us through that? I'm just going to throw that art
Speaker 3: process versus outcome.
Speaker 2: It's all I care about the process, process, process. It's
Speaker 2: all I care about. Athletes, whether you're sport, business, wellness,
Speaker 2: you'll come to me, and in my private practice, you
Speaker 2: might tell me what it is that you want to achieve.
Speaker 2: I will you know. I'm not I'm not going to
Speaker 2: actually ask that question, though. I want to know what
Speaker 2: your best strengths are, and then I want to know
Speaker 2: what your process is and see how we can improve
Speaker 2: upon it, what's working, what's not working. Eventually I'll learn
Speaker 2: what the you know, what the outcome is that you're
Speaker 2: wanting and if you come to me and tell me,
Speaker 2: and that's great too if you know it. But there
Speaker 2: are people who actually don't know what their outcome goals are.
Speaker 2: Yet there are people who don't really know what it
Speaker 2: is that they that they are doing what they're doing
Speaker 2: for and that's perfectly acceptable to me. Let's get into
Speaker 2: the process and then you're going to see what you're
Speaker 2: made of. And it's the only way to truly realize
Speaker 2: your potential is to dive into the process and be
Speaker 2: consistent with that and then let the outcome take care
Speaker 2: of itself.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and and I find I actually working with karate athletes,
Speaker 3: so I've been doing a bit of mindset coaching for
Speaker 3: the Karate Australia athletes who are wanting to get to
Speaker 3: the Olympics, the World Championships and talking to these elite
Speaker 3: guys when they are in competition and they're focused on
Speaker 3: the outcome on winning, that's when they they say that
Speaker 3: their performance goes to ratchet, right, And it's because it's
Speaker 3: it's a distraction and it also tips you out of
Speaker 3: that goldilock zone and puts that extra pressure on about
Speaker 3: winning or who's in the audience watching me that sort
Speaker 3: of stuff, and it does two things. I think One
Speaker 3: is it distracts you from being present and you talked
Speaker 3: about the importance of that. But secondly, you're then with
Speaker 3: that attention going to the outcome, it actually adds pressure, well,
Speaker 3: what if I lose, right, am I going to win this?
Speaker 3: That sort of stuff that can tip you out of
Speaker 3: that goldilock zone into over arisal that can then affect performance.
Speaker 3: So it's kind of it's a little bit twofold, isn't it.
Speaker 3: From both of those things, it.
Speaker 2: Also changes the experience of the outcome in my in
Speaker 2: my humble opinion, when you're so focused, like you said,
Speaker 2: the necessity to win whatever winning means to you, right,
Speaker 2: it doesn't necessarily have to be first place, whatever, whatever
Speaker 2: winning means to you, whatever that goal is. If you're
Speaker 2: so focused on it and not focused on the process,
Speaker 2: if if you do happen to get that win, sometimes
Speaker 2: it can be more of a relief than a celebration. Yes, yes,
Speaker 2: it's unfortunate because you've worked so hard, let's celebrate this
Speaker 2: instead of Okay, thank goodness, I did what I set
Speaker 2: out to do and listen. I do believe, obviously, I
Speaker 2: do believe in goals. I believe that they are very motivating.
Speaker 2: They when you fall down, there are a reason to
Speaker 2: get back up. They provide persistence and determination, and they
Speaker 2: help you create strategy for the process. Because this is
Speaker 2: what I want to achieve. Now, how am I going
Speaker 2: to get to it?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 2: But if that is what we're focusing on in the moment,
Speaker 2: it is a distraction, like you said, so let it
Speaker 2: motivate you and then but you have to be very
Speaker 2: aware of when it actually is hurting you to be
Speaker 2: focusing on the outcome instead of helping you with that energy.
Speaker 2: We were talking about the process is the present moment?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Absolutely, So you talked really are about You mentioned a
Speaker 3: little bit about failure or bouncing back. How do you
Speaker 3: help people to bounce back from setbacks? Because sometimes when
Speaker 3: someone has a big setback, whether it's in the corporate
Speaker 3: world or in the sports world, it can be absolutely
Speaker 3: crushing for them, and that ability to bounce back is
Speaker 3: really case.
Speaker 1: So what are some of the techniques that.
Speaker 3: You use that everyone can can use and to help
Speaker 3: them just bounce back and get back on the truck.
Speaker 2: It's kind of similar to the acceptance of pressure. We
Speaker 2: have to accept that that failure is an option. I
Speaker 2: am not a big fan when I hear people say
Speaker 2: failure isn't an option. It is an option. It happens
Speaker 2: to every single person. There is not one top performer
Speaker 2: in business or sport that has you know, won every
Speaker 2: single step of the way. So failure is an option. Phew,
Speaker 2: like relief. It can happen, and so now I don't
Speaker 2: have to focus on it, and now let me focus
Speaker 2: on the process. So that's one one thing. But even
Speaker 2: in addition to that acceptance, we talk about striving for
Speaker 2: perfection demanding perfection. I think those are two different things.
Speaker 2: I personally strive for perfection. I want to be perfect
Speaker 2: every single moment of my life, but I do not
Speaker 2: demand it of myself because that is unnecessary, negative anxiety.
Speaker 2: So I strive for perfection with the understanding. This is
Speaker 2: why I'm going to bring in the acceptance of failure,
Speaker 2: with the understanding that I will at some point fail,
Speaker 2: I will fall down. So the then goal, if you will,
Speaker 2: is to not just strive for perfection, but I also
Speaker 2: have a secondary goal to be the best recover I
Speaker 2: can be. So if I make a mistake, I'm not
Speaker 2: going to harp on that mistake because I'm not done yet.
Speaker 2: The work is not done. My work is now how
Speaker 2: am I going to best recover? If I'm giving a
Speaker 2: keynote and I forget my next line, right, I'm not
Speaker 2: just going to walk off the stage. No, I'm going
Speaker 2: to be the best recoverer I can be. How am
Speaker 2: I going to immediately get myself back up? Team sports
Speaker 2: do this all the time, or athletes do this all
Speaker 2: the time. If they have a failure, they're not done yet.
Speaker 2: It's not over. They have to best recover. And often
Speaker 2: the athlete who wins at the end of the day
Speaker 2: is not the perfect athlete. It's the athlete that best recovered.
Speaker 2: So we have to change our mindset strive for perfection.
Speaker 2: But failure happens. Okay, accept that, and now my focus
Speaker 2: is when I fail, how am I going to best recover?
Speaker 2: And often that's going to lead me to the optimal success?
Speaker 3: And how important in recovery is learning from failures?
Speaker 1: Is that?
Speaker 3: Is that always an important part of the process or
Speaker 3: are there times when you can still recover really well
Speaker 3: without actually going through and going what can I actually
Speaker 3: learn from this?
Speaker 2: I think it depends on the situation. So if you're
Speaker 2: now in a meeting and you stumble, or someone you
Speaker 2: know throws a question at you that you can't answer,
Speaker 2: you don't really have a moment to go off. Take
Speaker 2: five minutes, take ten minutes and recover and then come back.
Speaker 2: You have to bounce back. A figure skater falls in
Speaker 2: their routine, they don't get to just sit and learn
Speaker 2: and recover. They need to bounce right back. So you
Speaker 2: have to really understand the situation in which you're in.
Speaker 2: Other times there is an opportunity to recover, to renew
Speaker 2: some energy, to let the emotions kind of work their
Speaker 2: way in and out. If you're doing recovery properly, the
Speaker 2: emotions will come in and then you'll let them go,
Speaker 2: and then you can bring the logical mind back in
Speaker 2: to say, okay, how could I you know, how can
Speaker 2: I then move forward from here? So it really depends.
Speaker 2: Some times you're not going to have a lot of opportunity,
Speaker 2: so you'll have to get to it when you do
Speaker 2: have the moment.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 3: Is that that you can use the learning during the
Speaker 3: debrief right when there's time to debrief when it's over.
Speaker 3: But as you say, sometimes you're in the thick of
Speaker 3: it and you've just made a mistake and you need
Speaker 3: to just get back on the horse super super quick, right.
Speaker 2: So you'll have to shelflirting from later.
Speaker 3: Yea, yes, And is that where some of these cues
Speaker 3: come in, you know, whether that's like a little mantra
Speaker 3: that you say to yourself, or what are some of
Speaker 3: the techniques that people can use in that moment right
Speaker 3: right when they're in the thick of it and they
Speaker 3: screw up and they realize they screw up hard?
Speaker 1: Do they really.
Speaker 3: Quickly get themselves back into that performance zone and not
Speaker 3: overthink or what what I just bloody did?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's a really shortened version of that post
Speaker 2: performance routine we were talking about closure, or another word
Speaker 2: is recent, you know, so it's reset. So maybe your
Speaker 2: mantra is right left, right left, you know, that's that's
Speaker 2: my mantra, right left, right left, what's next? What's next?
Speaker 2: I know that tennis players will like look at stair,
Speaker 2: at the strings of their racket, or you know, throw
Speaker 2: their if they're right handed, throw it into their left hand.
Speaker 2: Little change. I love for all industries, business, health and sport.
Speaker 2: Progressive muscular relaxation that you can do very quickly, which
Speaker 2: because when you make a mistake, you tend to get
Speaker 2: a your body tends to be tense and it's really
Speaker 2: hard to just relax. But you can go from that
Speaker 2: tense to even more tense for five seconds, and then
Speaker 2: you've got somewhere to go progressive muscular relaxation. So you
Speaker 2: can just take a body part, just tense it even
Speaker 2: more than you already are tense for five seconds and
Speaker 2: then let it out and that can be you know,
Speaker 2: a physical reset, and.
Speaker 3: That physical reset plays into the psychology. I mean, this
Speaker 3: is really important for people to understand, isn't it That
Speaker 3: there's this two way interaction that and most people get
Speaker 3: that your psychology really affects your sip of your physiology. Right,
Speaker 3: somebody who's really stressed feels it in their stomach, feels
Speaker 3: at tension, all of those things. But your physiology massively
Speaker 3: influences your psychology, doesn't. And just that little extra squeeze
Speaker 3: can not only relax your muscles, but relax your mind.
Speaker 2: It's like it's also an emotional event, so it relaxes
Speaker 2: your mind, it vents your emotions. In performance psychology, when
Speaker 2: we're talking about like techniques tool strategies, we're often either
Speaker 2: teaching mind body techniques, which means something you do to
Speaker 2: your mind helps both your mind and your body. But
Speaker 2: then there's body to mind techniques, something you do to
Speaker 2: your body helps your body.
Speaker 1: Interesting. Interesting, talk to us.
Speaker 3: A little bit more about those body mind techniques because
Speaker 3: it's not self and that a lot of people will
Speaker 3: have heard of.
Speaker 2: So the body to mind would be an example that
Speaker 2: progressive muscular relaxation, taking a body part and tensing it
Speaker 2: for ten seconds, hold and then you relax and like
Speaker 2: as you said, which you're completely right upon, that not
Speaker 2: only relaxes your body, it also then automatically calm your mind. Breathing.
Speaker 2: Breathing is a physiological technique, so that's also a body
Speaker 2: technique that goes to your mind. Tapping, not that I
Speaker 2: not that I know, I'm not an expert in tapping,
Speaker 2: but tapping is like when you literally, you.
Speaker 1: Know, you like, ah, yes, yes, yes you tap.
Speaker 3: You tap emotional free and becolor emotional freedom technique. I
Speaker 3: think it's okay, And there's there's there is a there's
Speaker 3: an emotional freedom technique that I believe involves tapping. And
Speaker 3: somebody will put me up if I'm wrong about that,
Speaker 3: but yeah, because because that's big, and it's it's mediated
Speaker 3: all of this through the nervous system, that's what it's.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, just going out there, you know, I was
Speaker 2: just actually this last week on a call with an
Speaker 2: athlete who was experiencing some she needed to reset quick,
Speaker 2: like she was triggered and the reframing the mind to
Speaker 2: body techniques that we were talking about weren't really working.
Speaker 2: So I told her to go and do some sprints
Speaker 2: or some pushups or some jumping jacks, high intensity, not
Speaker 2: to blow your physical energy, but very quick, just do
Speaker 2: something to get the blood circulating through your body, which
Speaker 2: automatically will change the energy in your mind, you know,
Speaker 2: because now you're kind of your heart rates up, a
Speaker 2: little bit of blood circulating, You're gonna have a different mental, psychological,
Speaker 2: and emotional experience just by going and getting your body,
Speaker 2: you know, all that blood circulating through your body through
Speaker 2: some high intensity movement.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember.
Speaker 3: I see one thing about like pinching your your thumb
Speaker 3: and your forefinger, you know those There's there's just so
Speaker 3: many things that people can do to just give them
Speaker 3: the salves that reset. And I love the idea, this
Speaker 3: this concept of reset, and it's just something that you
Speaker 3: can do super quick, whether it's a word, whether it's
Speaker 3: squeezing your thumb and your forefinger, whether it's squeezing your
Speaker 3: leg muscles or whatever.
Speaker 1: And I think our listeners should practice that, right.
Speaker 3: And and and then it's about repetition, isn't it. Because
Speaker 3: what it's doing then is it's setting up a loop
Speaker 3: of Pavlovian learning loop in your brain.
Speaker 2: I was just about to say, we're all Pavlov's dogs.
Speaker 2: So yes, absolutely, yes, But you nailed at the practice,
Speaker 2: the training. This is the best lesson we can learn
Speaker 2: from athletes. Actually, probably what you did to flying planes
Speaker 2: in the military the best lessons. There's a lot of
Speaker 2: training that goes on in military, Harry, There's a lot
Speaker 2: of training that goes on in sports. Athletes train much
Speaker 2: more than they compete. We have to train in our lives.
Speaker 2: We have to train and do these tools when we
Speaker 2: don't need them so that when we do need them
Speaker 2: they're accessible.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, not training.
Speaker 3: There is a shitload of hard work that is in
Speaker 3: behind effortless performance.
Speaker 2: I love that effortless well well, and for sure with
Speaker 2: the mind, I mean the whole the whole purpose in
Speaker 2: my mind, the whole purpose of mental training is to
Speaker 2: quiet the mind and the emotions so that our bodies
Speaker 2: can do what we've been training it to do. Yes,
Speaker 2: and that's the whole you know, so, and that would
Speaker 2: be effortless movement, right, Like, we don't have to have
Speaker 2: our bodies to do what we've been training it to do,
Speaker 2: and but our mind and our emotions get in the way,
Speaker 2: so we have to train it to kind of show
Speaker 2: it or work for us, and then it becomes so
Speaker 2: much more free, free movement, effortless.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, And let's not because you've mentioned attention a
Speaker 3: couple of times, and and attention and focus are two
Speaker 3: words that are intimately related and attentional control. I've been
Speaker 3: thinking more and more about attention. I was involved in
Speaker 3: this Dealthie study which was identifying the trainable cognitive drivers
Speaker 3: of performance under pressure. And in this Dealthi study was
Speaker 3: a whole heap of experts. There was sports psychologists, business psychologists,
Speaker 3: military psychologists. We all had to reate these trainable cognitive primaries,
Speaker 3: as they were called.
Speaker 1: But the one thing.
Speaker 3: That everybody put at the top of the list was
Speaker 3: attentional control. And I think number three was arousal control, right,
Speaker 3: I think number two was performance monitoring. I'll actually flicky
Speaker 3: the paper, you'd love the paper, right, But but that
Speaker 3: and and I've been thinking more and more about attention
Speaker 3: because whatever you pay attention to, your brand, commits sales
Speaker 3: to and your your body is oriented towards right. So
Speaker 3: give us some practical tips, because with athletes, it's all
Speaker 3: about training that focus, which is essentially training their attention.
Speaker 3: So what are some tips that you use in in
Speaker 3: sports psychology that that anybody, whether they're an amateur sports
Speaker 3: person or will have professional sports people listening to this,
Speaker 3: or business people are even just normal people.
Speaker 1: How can they train their focus? What are some practical
Speaker 1: things they can do?
Speaker 2: That's such a great question, and I actually think it
Speaker 2: is I would agree that it is the number one,
Speaker 2: because aout attention. I don't I don't I don't know
Speaker 2: how you. I don't know how you follow the right, left, right, left,
Speaker 2: because I don't know where you're going. You'll let up
Speaker 2: someplace else. Right? Who is that? Is that Yogi Berrah?
Speaker 2: Which therefore I believe in goals, but a where attention?
Speaker 2: To me? The first thing that we have to understand
Speaker 2: is what's relevant and what's irrelevant. And we have to
Speaker 2: have the awareness of what's relevant and irrelevant. So in
Speaker 2: any moment, business, sport, fitness, and any moment, you can
Speaker 2: stop and you train yourself. So take inventory three times
Speaker 2: a day. Just stop and look at what you're doing
Speaker 2: and say, you know, what is what is relevant in
Speaker 2: this moment, and what are kind of distractions that are irrelevant?
Speaker 2: So you and I are talking to each other, right,
Speaker 2: if I see, because there's a window in front of me,
Speaker 2: if I see somebody walking irrelevant, I have to assign
Speaker 2: them the irrelevant tag. You are the only relevant person
Speaker 2: in my life right now, Paul. Right, So we have
Speaker 2: to do and it's really important to have that because
Speaker 2: if you make everything a priority, then nothing is a priority.
Speaker 2: So the first way to train intention is to understand
Speaker 2: what is relevant and what is irrelevant, with also the
Speaker 2: understanding that it can change. What was once irrelevant then
Speaker 2: becomes relevant. And in sport we have this amazing ability
Speaker 2: to train, Like if you're a golfer, you you know,
Speaker 2: first things first is you have to kind of scan
Speaker 2: the environment, have a broad external focus, and then you
Speaker 2: bring it internal to strategize. So you're no longer looking
Speaker 2: out now I'm actually assessing what I just saw outside
Speaker 2: and bring it into my brain. So I'm going internal,
Speaker 2: narrowing it down, coming up with one strategy, and then
Speaker 2: you know, then I'm going to again go external but narrow.
Speaker 2: Am I focusing on the ball, or am I focusing
Speaker 2: on wearing hit the ball? Or am I just gonna
Speaker 2: keep it internal and focus on my breath to calm
Speaker 2: myself down. So you have to be able to train
Speaker 2: your ability. In performance psychology, there are four different types
Speaker 2: of concentration there, and it's not a spectrum, right, there's
Speaker 2: kind of look like like a quadrant. You have the
Speaker 2: broad and narrow, and then you have the external and internal.
Speaker 2: So you either are looking broad external scanning the environment,
Speaker 2: or you know, looking at one thing that would be
Speaker 2: broad narrow or internal broad kind of just you know,
Speaker 2: you can like scan your body for any tension. You know,
Speaker 2: you can do a broad scan but it's internal or
Speaker 2: maybe I'm just focusing on my breath. Maybe I'm just
Speaker 2: focusing on my stomach expanding and contracting. Internal narrow. So
Speaker 2: we have to practice those those things, and you ask
Speaker 2: me for tactical tools. We one exercise which I like
Speaker 2: that anybody can do any for any purpose. It's also
Speaker 2: in mindfulness technique. But just go outside and if you're
Speaker 2: on you know, a seventeenth floor, just stick your head
Speaker 2: outside and if you can't really go outside, it's okay,
Speaker 2: just look around you in house, but just for a moment,
Speaker 2: tune into your vision what do you see, and then
Speaker 2: and block out everything else, Everything else is irrelevant. Just
Speaker 2: your what you see is relevant ten seconds, and then
Speaker 2: for another moment ten seconds, only focus on what you hear,
Speaker 2: then only on what you taste, then only on what
Speaker 2: you feel can esthetically underneath you, and then only what
Speaker 2: you feel on your skin, you know, for example. So
Speaker 2: you move from one sense to another sense, and that's
Speaker 2: training you to tune into what you're deeming irrelevance. That's
Speaker 2: one way to do it. Another Oh sorry, no, I was.
Speaker 3: Just going to say, I actually think people should rewind
Speaker 3: and re listen to this little section, listen to it
Speaker 3: over and over again, and get it into their heads,
Speaker 3: because I think that the big problem today is is
Speaker 3: just our loss of attentional control and the attention thieves
Speaker 3: around us, from mobile phones to emails to you know,
Speaker 3: people double screening as well, and they're just their attention
Speaker 3: goes all over the place. So that attentional control the
Speaker 3: stuff that you just talked about using the different senses
Speaker 3: or you know, another meditation technique is bring your attention
Speaker 3: inside your body. Now bring it outside your body to
Speaker 3: the art of world, and then bring it inside. And
Speaker 3: that ability to control or to be in control of
Speaker 3: your attention. I think it's just so critical. But you
Speaker 3: we're about to just give another technique.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's it's actually a fun game. I do it
Speaker 2: with At'll say, so whoever is watching listening. If you
Speaker 2: have kids, you can do it with your kids. It's
Speaker 2: called the concentration grid, and you can just go online
Speaker 2: and type in concentration grid, and it gives you a
Speaker 2: grid of numbers scattered. The ones that I use has
Speaker 2: start at zero zero, so maybe the one that you
Speaker 2: find will start at zero one and it goes to
Speaker 2: either nine to nine or one hundred. And you time
Speaker 2: yourself for a minute, let's say, and you have to
Speaker 2: go and find zero one, then zero two, then zero
Speaker 2: three and zero four, and you go as fast as
Speaker 2: you can and see how many numbers you get, how
Speaker 2: high you can get in order in that minute. So
Speaker 2: that kind of is your baseline, and then through that
Speaker 2: you ought normally you kind of find a strategy that
Speaker 2: you'd like. Maybe is just going you know, horizontal up
Speaker 2: and down, or you just I don't know if you're
Speaker 2: just going to kind of steer at it and see
Speaker 2: if the number pops out at you. But you come
Speaker 2: up with a strategy, and then the second time you
Speaker 2: do it, your intention your process is to see if
Speaker 2: you can beat or match. So there's a game, there's competition,
Speaker 2: see if you can beat or match the numbers. But
Speaker 2: here's the catch. You have to stay with the strategy
Speaker 2: that you chose. That is you training your brain and
Speaker 2: you know to be to stay, to have focus, to
Speaker 2: have that attention and commit to a strategy, and that
Speaker 2: is also training your attention. You can also start to
Speaker 2: play music or have people try to distract you while
Speaker 2: you're then focusingers. That's also fun too, right, so that
Speaker 2: also trains your attention. But I'll tell you what the
Speaker 2: coolest thing is. So I've done this training for myself,
Speaker 2: there's always room for improvement that I have done this
Speaker 2: training for myself, and I will tell you what's super cool.
Speaker 2: In my business, I can be working on an email,
Speaker 2: for example, and then I get a text message or
Speaker 2: my phone rings, and I have the ability, I have
Speaker 2: the skill set to stop in the moment or not
Speaker 2: stop if I've deemed everything like right now, everything's off,
Speaker 2: so I don't have to focus on anything but you.
Speaker 2: But in other times of my life there are going
Speaker 2: to be distractions. But I have the skill set now
Speaker 2: to stop, look at that text briefly, and then I
Speaker 2: have the discernment to say irrelevant, relevant, and then I
Speaker 2: can go back because I also have the muscle of
Speaker 2: concentration to just shut it out it goes on mute,
Speaker 2: and go back to what I was doing. And I
Speaker 2: think people don't have that skill. We get lost, we
Speaker 2: get distracted, and it's really hard to get back into
Speaker 2: the project that we were working on.
Speaker 3: That that's a super part being able to just go
Speaker 3: irrelevant and then get back on task really quickly, because
Speaker 3: the research shows that it often takes people a minute
Speaker 3: are more to get back on task. And actually I
Speaker 3: present research in my talks. There's a famous study called
Speaker 3: Brian dream Whether. They actually showed that if your mobile
Speaker 3: phone is sitting on the table upside down on silence,
Speaker 3: it actually reduces your working memory capacity and your fluid
Speaker 3: intelligence by about ten percent. And those people that's the average,
Speaker 3: but those people who are more addicted to their smartphones,
Speaker 3: it actually has a bigger impact on their working memory
Speaker 3: and their fluid intelligence, and it's just there's just these
Speaker 3: things are attention thieves, right, and they.
Speaker 1: Are productivity killers.
Speaker 3: I can tell you how many meetings that I have
Speaker 3: witnessed or or talks where people are just on their
Speaker 3: mobile phones and thinking that they're listening, and you just
Speaker 3: know that they're not listening. What we do is we chunk, right,
Speaker 3: so we fill in the gaps. And people think you
Speaker 3: can multitask, that's bullshit. What we do is we very
Speaker 3: quickly shift our attention and we're actually filling in the
Speaker 3: gaps right, And actually says if you could just make
Speaker 3: people really understand one thing in terms of their productivity,
Speaker 3: and I think they're overall well being, it would be
Speaker 3: to just minimize these bloody distractions because they're they're just
Speaker 3: a productivity killer and a concentration killer. And then it
Speaker 3: just goes on to then having scattered attentional control.
Speaker 2: So obviously that's the first step to remove. I mean, listen,
Speaker 2: if we're really going to get the easiest way to
Speaker 2: improve your attention is to get rid of distractions, like.
Speaker 3: To real but actually, heally, I think with your attention,
Speaker 3: you're training it in one way or another, so you're
Speaker 3: either through your daily behaviors. You're either training your attention
Speaker 3: to be focused on in your control, or you're training
Speaker 3: your attention like if you're not doing something.
Speaker 1: Deliberate, that world is.
Speaker 3: Actually training your attention to be completely scattered.
Speaker 2: I love that. So you're yeah, I mean you're training
Speaker 2: either way. You're either training yourself to.
Speaker 3: Be con There is no not training there. Yeah, there
Speaker 3: is no not training, right, It's just kind of come
Speaker 3: to me. You are training one way or another.
Speaker 1: Whether you like it or not. So choose the way
Speaker 1: you bloody well trained.
Speaker 2: Right. No, I love that too. Yeah, thanks for sharing that.
Speaker 2: That is It's true. You're either it's like motivation. I
Speaker 2: don't believe in being not motivated. You're either just motivated
Speaker 2: to get off the couch. You're motivated to stay on
Speaker 2: the couch. So and I know you're a big can
Speaker 2: of getting off the couch.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but but that but that that is to people say,
Speaker 3: I'm I'm I'm not motive.
Speaker 1: Yeah you are. You're motivated to do fuck all?
Speaker 2: No, you're right, it is is it is training and
Speaker 2: uh and so we get to choose and it's super cool.
Speaker 2: I actually really like when I have the ability to
Speaker 2: just tune things out even though they don't need to go.
Speaker 2: They don't need to go anywhere. I'm at that level now,
Speaker 2: but I get paged in the training where I can
Speaker 2: just look and Nope, that's not relevant, and then get
Speaker 2: back to what is.
Speaker 3: And so you and your brik you talk about pressing
Speaker 3: mute on distractions. Is that what you mean about pressing mute?
Speaker 3: Talk to us through that a little bit, because obviously
Speaker 3: I think what you have now is a bit of
Speaker 3: a super par and it's come through training. It's not genetics.
Speaker 3: But talk to us about this idea of pressing mute.
Speaker 2: You know. A great example that I've had to teach
Speaker 2: myself is so I've always been some type of teacher
Speaker 2: where I was teaching at the university or being a
Speaker 2: group fitness instructor and then keynote speaker, and inevitably there
Speaker 2: are people who are going to come in late, leave early,
Speaker 2: get on their phones. You know, very seldom, maybe you
Speaker 2: know go top, but I do believe I've probably seen
Speaker 2: that once or twice in my day. People closer to
Speaker 2: me very irrelevant. But I had to train myself. I
Speaker 2: had to remind myself they are not the ones that
Speaker 2: I'm talking to right now, maybe once they get sit
Speaker 2: and settled and they like, Am I really going to
Speaker 2: devote my attention to them and focus on them, which
Speaker 2: is going to hurt me and to the people who
Speaker 2: are listening? Or Am I going to focus on the
Speaker 2: people who are who showed up on time, who's with me,
Speaker 2: who's asking questions? And so that is a great for
Speaker 2: me example of training that I have had to endure
Speaker 2: in addition to when I was a you know, well,
Speaker 2: I continue to be an athlete in addition to going
Speaker 2: you know, I'm a mountain biker. It's a new sport
Speaker 2: for me. I'll just go to sports. It's I'm four
Speaker 2: years into this thing. It is by far my most
Speaker 2: feared sport. Am I going to focus on the just yesterday?
Speaker 2: Am I going to focus on the fact that I
Speaker 2: could fall down this cliff and roll? Or Am I
Speaker 2: going to focus on getting my butt back hand and
Speaker 2: lay on my handlebars? Have to train myself but butt
Speaker 2: back light up on my handle on my handlebars.
Speaker 3: And I tell you what I think, mountain biking, especially
Speaker 3: going down hill, is one of the best intentional focus
Speaker 3: exercises that you can do because you cannot ride down
Speaker 3: a mountain distracted about ship and thinking about.
Speaker 1: And the party tomorrow.
Speaker 2: It is oh my goodness, Yes, the intensity.
Speaker 1: Of it is mindful. This personify, Yes.
Speaker 2: But listen, when you use it, right, it heightens your
Speaker 2: attention on It heightens your intention again, and what's relevant.
Speaker 2: You have to be able to decide for yourself what
Speaker 2: it is that's going to help you and what it
Speaker 2: is that's going to hurt you if you focus on it,
Speaker 2: and then have the skill set to go and focus
Speaker 2: on what you've deemed relevant.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: That the example you gave about how doing a keynote talk,
Speaker 3: I can really resonate with that.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: So you're doing a keynote talk and you see somebody
Speaker 3: putting a mobile phone out or a few people having
Speaker 3: a conversation while you're giving a talk, and there's a
Speaker 3: part of my brain that just wants to go.
Speaker 1: Okay, sorry, you two over there.
Speaker 3: I'll just wait until you finished and then I'll continue
Speaker 3: with the talk. Right, But you have to Well you
Speaker 3: can either you could do that or it's about shutting
Speaker 3: it art.
Speaker 1: Isn't it that that? Really?
Speaker 3: Because it can it can start to eat away at
Speaker 3: you and then you lose track.
Speaker 1: Of words and all of that sort of stuff, And yeah,
Speaker 1: I totally resonate with that one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's distraction. I used to when I used to
Speaker 2: teach like group fitness into recycle classes and there was like,
Speaker 2: you know, maybe there's two people chatting. I just would
Speaker 2: actually get off my bike and go stand right beside them.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't talk to them, I would just stand right
Speaker 2: beside them.
Speaker 3: I've actually done that, where I'll sort of walk over
Speaker 3: and linger the table and sometimes just kind of look
Speaker 3: at them while I'm talking.
Speaker 2: But that's even a strategy. But to me, that's a
Speaker 2: strategy to still stay on purpose, right it is for
Speaker 2: me to stay yeah, but almost use them as as
Speaker 2: a tool to help me and also tell them to
Speaker 2: you know, zip it at the same time without Yeah, that's.
Speaker 3: Right, that's right, implied intimidation, that's what it is.
Speaker 1: So that we we we do have to wrap up
Speaker 1: in a minute. But but you you talk about.
Speaker 3: A mental toolbox and for for people, and I love
Speaker 3: that concept.
Speaker 1: So, so what sort of.
Speaker 3: Things tools do you include or shoot people think about
Speaker 3: including in their mental toolbox.
Speaker 2: So in the book Personal Podium, what I really what
Speaker 2: I really pride myself on is strategies. So if you
Speaker 2: want tools, if you want techniques, if you want you know,
Speaker 2: the screwdriver, the wrench, the hammer for your for your
Speaker 2: set and performance, this is where you go to get it.
Speaker 2: And I talk about well, even though we briefly mentioned,
Speaker 2: you know, outcome, I don't necessarily think outcome is just goals.
Speaker 2: But I look at goals and I look at just
Speaker 2: the three goals that you need visualization. This is the
Speaker 2: way to visualize recovery. This is the way to recover performance, preparation.
Speaker 2: These are the tools that you need. Do you need
Speaker 2: them all the time, every day, all day, No, But
Speaker 2: you want to have them accessible. You want to train
Speaker 2: them when you don't need them, and then stick them
Speaker 2: in your mental toolbox so that when you do need them,
Speaker 2: your mental toolbox is there and you can pull out
Speaker 2: the hammer of productive self talk, the wrench of symbolic imagery,
Speaker 2: the you know, the screwdriver of music for reset. So
Speaker 2: that's what I mean, I say, mental toolbox.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that idea.
Speaker 3: Okay, so people, if you if you would like to
Speaker 3: have a mental toolbox, get yourself on Amazon and google
Speaker 3: Personal Podium by Hailey Perlis. So where can we send people, Haley,
Speaker 3: if they want to want to know more.
Speaker 1: About you, get the book.
Speaker 3: Or any other courses, because I know you've got some
Speaker 3: courses and and do you also do coaching distance learning?
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, and yes I do have master classes on
Speaker 2: my website how to beat defeat self belief you are injured,
Speaker 2: the injury mindset. Definitely coaching in person and virtual keynote.
Speaker 2: I am on social media Instagram, LinkedIn, YouTube, but the
Speaker 2: best place to really connect with me is my website
Speaker 2: at doctor just Dr haileypurlis dot com. You can opt
Speaker 2: in and get weekly mental toughness moments, a video of
Speaker 2: me talking about these tools that we have in our
Speaker 2: mental toolbox. And if you have a question and you
Speaker 2: write me a note, I'm the one that gets it,
Speaker 2: so I will respond.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, very cool, excellent, good stuff. Taaley.
Speaker 3: Thank you for your time and your wisdom and and
Speaker 3: helping to translate the techniques from sports performance for everyday people,
Speaker 3: because I think there's so much excuse me, in sports
Speaker 3: performance psychology that that everybody can use just to improve
Speaker 3: their lives and.
Speaker 1: Get up that podium, the personal podium.
Speaker 2: All that you do