WEBVTT - Episode 5: Detectives, Red Flags and Failure 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:04.640 Listeners are advised that this podcast series Bronwyn contains coarse 0:00:04.800 --> 0:00:08.840 language and adult themes. This podcast series is brought to 0:00:08.880 --> 0:00:42.760 you by me Headley Thomas and The Australian. Bronwin's good 0:00:42.800 --> 0:00:47.599 friend Anise Barnard and her husbands are making plans. They 0:00:47.600 --> 0:00:50.760 are going to sell the house Denise loves and Fareweller 0:00:50.840 --> 0:00:54.880 community in which they have lived for about thirty five years. 0:00:55.320 --> 0:00:57.880 They are moving a few hundred kilometers north to be 0:00:58.000 --> 0:01:01.320 closer to their children on Queensland and Sunshine Coast. 0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:04.360 Just go and start a new life with my family. 0:01:05.400 --> 0:01:08.800 Time to move on and be with my granddaughter. 0:01:08.920 --> 0:01:13.600 And how do you feel about leaving all these memories 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:15.520 and after se many years? 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:19.400 Oh, I'm fine stoke. 0:01:21.040 --> 0:01:23.640 As we chatted at her home, I showed Denise the 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:27.520 brief snippet of video of Bromman. The bit filmed while 0:01:27.600 --> 0:01:31.440 she visited her father Philip in a Brisbane hospital. He 0:01:31.560 --> 0:01:34.800 was gravely ill after a liver transplant and would die 0:01:35.000 --> 0:01:35.720 days later. 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:40.119 Sometimes you'll blink or wink or move his head if 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:41.160 I think he's responding. 0:01:41.200 --> 0:01:43.440 It makes me feel a lot better. But all I 0:01:43.480 --> 0:01:46.440 ever telling me said he's going to get better. Wow. 0:01:48.280 --> 0:01:52.160 It's exactly how she looked. It's amazing to see her, 0:01:52.600 --> 0:01:53.360 see her talking. 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:55.320 You forget how people sound. 0:01:56.640 --> 0:01:58.840 Too much time gone by. 0:02:00.320 --> 0:02:03.360 Right after hearing and seeing Bromin on the screen of 0:02:03.360 --> 0:02:08.000 my laptop at an outdoor table, Denise disclosed something unexpected 0:02:08.800 --> 0:02:09.200 and do you. 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:13.760 Know Broman's third person of my friends that's gone missing 0:02:13.800 --> 0:02:16.799 without a trace. You would have heard of Wi Borkin 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:20.359 and Julie Jamison. Yeah, there were two of my friends 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:23.200 in Sydney that disappeared, never a trace of them ever. 0:02:23.840 --> 0:02:28.400 Both nurses then rumored I'd heard Ivan Latt. 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:32.079 They're eighteen. Whatever happened to them? 0:02:32.160 --> 0:02:37.280 How do people just disappear and you never see them again? 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:41.239 Welcome to the program. 0:02:41.440 --> 0:02:44.680 His crimes left a trail of fear and sorrow stretching 0:02:44.720 --> 0:02:48.160 all the way from Australia to Europe. Ivan Malatt remains 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:51.560 a key suspect for a spate of unsolved murders dating 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:52.640 back to nineteen eighty. 0:02:54.080 --> 0:02:58.320 In May two thousand and six, ABC News reported. 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:01.040 Serial killer Ivan Malatt has been named as a person 0:03:01.040 --> 0:03:03.600 of interest at an inquest into the deaths of two 0:03:03.720 --> 0:03:08.360 Sydney nurses. Westmead Coroner's Court has heard that Gillian Jamison 0:03:08.400 --> 0:03:11.480 and Deborah Balkan were last seen in a Western Sydney 0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:15.760 hotel in nineteen eighty. The coroner has recommended the case 0:03:15.840 --> 0:03:19.720 be referred to the Unsolved Homicide Squad for further investigation 0:03:20.639 --> 0:03:24.160 outside the court. Detective Sergeant Ian McNab said the case 0:03:24.200 --> 0:03:26.760 would indeed be referred to the Cold case Unit. 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:32.720 Detective Sergeant McNab said, it's always frustrating if you can't 0:03:32.760 --> 0:03:33.880 solve the matter. 0:03:35.000 --> 0:03:36.080 A more timely day. 0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:41.680 When Bromin disappeared, what did you believe had happened? 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:45.360 Well, I hadn't seen her for a little while. I'd 0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:48.600 gotten right into the gym. She was working at Eden's 0:03:48.600 --> 0:03:51.520 and doing other things. And I think the first call 0:03:51.560 --> 0:03:55.760 I got was from Andrew, her brother, and he said 0:03:55.800 --> 0:03:59.480 had I seen Brown? And I said no, I hadn't, 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:02.640 And then that was followed up by Debbie. Were you 0:04:02.640 --> 0:04:05.119 all started this wear issue? What's happened to her? 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:09.840 Do you remember talking to police in nineteen ninety three, 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:13.400 immediately after Bromin vanished? 0:04:14.920 --> 0:04:16.800 No, I don't think I did speak to police. 0:04:17.560 --> 0:04:20.000 Did it take until nineteen ninety eight when you gave 0:04:20.000 --> 0:04:20.600 your statement? 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:23.279 No, I think it was nineteen ninety eight. 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:29.000 Do you know why do you know why police didn't 0:04:29.000 --> 0:04:29.599 speak to you? 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:33.760 I have no idea. Yeah, I don't remember. 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:36.479 Well, you know, it's understandable. 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:40.040 We're going back thirty one years to when Bromin disappeared. 0:04:41.200 --> 0:04:44.839 One of the things that I think people like Debbie 0:04:44.880 --> 0:04:51.200 and others have some regrets over is that the suspicions 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:56.400 they had were not acted upon by police or even 0:04:56.440 --> 0:04:58.920 by themselves at that time. 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:03.240 In ninety three. You've said that you formed the suspicion 0:05:04.120 --> 0:05:04.719 straight away. 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:10.000 Well in that time period, you know, recently after she disappeared. 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:12.640 Are we talking days, weeks, months? 0:05:12.920 --> 0:05:13.640 Probably weeks? 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:19.679 Yeah, after talking to like back then, Andrew, Debbie, obviously 0:05:19.760 --> 0:05:22.000 we're all on board talking about what was going on 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:25.560 and the night the car went down the driveway and 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:28.039 all that sort of thing. That I've never gone from 0:05:28.080 --> 0:05:31.000 the assumption that I think he did something, whether it 0:05:31.040 --> 0:05:33.080 be in the heat of the moment, that's how I 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:38.400 believe it happened. But I've never waited from that. He 0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:44.000 from memory, filed a missing person report, yes, and I 0:05:44.080 --> 0:05:47.000 believe at the time a lot of that was that 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:51.120 they believed John that she'd just gone off and disappeared. 0:05:52.960 --> 0:05:55.080 Left him yeah, and. 0:05:55.040 --> 0:05:57.720 Why would you if you loved your girls, why would 0:05:57.720 --> 0:06:00.320 you ever want to assume a your identity and even 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:03.080 go and set up again. Unless she had a plan 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:07.039 to maybe set yourself up and then come back and get. 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:10.919 Them, But no, I don't think it's pausible. 0:06:12.600 --> 0:06:16.159 In an earlier episode, you heard Denise disclosing what she 0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:19.240 told police when they came to her for a statement 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:23.599 in nineteen ninety eight, five years after Bromwin's disappearance. 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:27.000 I still recollect when she told me that he had 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:30.320 had her by the throat up against the wall and 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:31.440 that she was frightened. 0:06:33.040 --> 0:06:35.039 It's not an easy question to ask, but I have 0:06:35.120 --> 0:06:39.159 to ask. Do you think that Bromwin's friends could have 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:43.760 should have said more, done more early on to raise 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:44.520 the alarm. 0:06:44.600 --> 0:06:51.119 Yes, I'm sure we should have. I don't know even 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:52.240 now why we didn't. 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:59.640 Presuably you could have formed the group of mums you 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:01.760 were for playgroup and all gone to the police station 0:07:01.880 --> 0:07:04.200 and said, hey, we think she's met with foul play. 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:05.520 Yeah. 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:07.000 I don't know why we didn't do that. 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:09.200 Even now, I don't that would be what I would 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:12.200 do now, But back then, I don't know why we didn't. 0:07:13.480 --> 0:07:15.960 For a while did we believe that as John had said, 0:07:16.000 --> 0:07:17.880 she'd gone away for a while to have a break. 0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:19.680 But after that, why didn't we go? 0:07:19.840 --> 0:07:20.320 I don't know. 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:26.520 And in other cases, I've talked to people who say 0:07:26.600 --> 0:07:32.320 that the hope that someone they really loble are very 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:38.160 close to will come back prevents them from accepting that 0:07:38.240 --> 0:07:39.360 foul play has occurred. 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:41.760 There's this candle that they keep alive. 0:07:44.040 --> 0:07:45.880 I don't think at any time I thought she was 0:07:45.880 --> 0:07:47.720 going to come back after that? 0:07:50.200 --> 0:07:51.840 Why didn't I do anything? I don't know. 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:56.120 Was it my husband saying, oh no, that John's a 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:58.880 good bloke. Nothing, there wouldn't been anything like that happening. 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:02.040 Did I tend to go that way for a while? 0:08:02.640 --> 0:08:03.160 I don't know. 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:04.960 Was that Lester's view? 0:08:06.400 --> 0:08:10.520 My husband's always sat in the fence. He knows my feelings. 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:14.280 He's always set in offense about it. But where is she? 0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:14.480 Then? 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:16.080 I said to him, or where is she? If she's 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:16.600 still around? 0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:17.160 Where is she? 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:21.640 Yeah? Currently answer that, Penny. 0:08:23.800 --> 0:08:25.920 Have you understood why he's sat on the fence. 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:29.040 I just think it's just a blokey thing. 0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:34.480 As I write this, another ABC News story reports on 0:08:34.600 --> 0:08:39.000 a national summit about violence perpetrated by men against. 0:08:38.559 --> 0:08:43.280 Women at its first national round table, the Federal Circuit 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:46.360 and Family Course of Australia looks to find solutions to 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:47.599 a growing emergency. 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:50.440 It is a national disgrace and has tell me do 0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:53.680 more about it. There is no doubt it is getting worse. 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:56.400 So we do have a national crisis in this country 0:08:57.000 --> 0:08:59.360 and this Court is absolutely committed to making sure that 0:08:59.400 --> 0:09:00.560 it's playing it's part. 0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:04.520 Addressing the crowd was the Attorney General Mark Dreyfus, who 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:06.160 called on men to step up. 0:09:06.800 --> 0:09:09.040 One death of a woman at the hands of a 0:09:09.080 --> 0:09:13.360 man is one too many. One death a week is 0:09:13.360 --> 0:09:14.040 an epidemic. 0:09:14.520 --> 0:09:17.239 At least twenty four women have been killed in Australia 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:20.360 this year, ten more than this time last year. 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:21.840 In Victoria. 0:09:21.960 --> 0:09:27.079 They include Samantha Murphy, Sweza Madigani, Rebecca Young and Hannah Maguire, 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:31.480 all allegedly murdered by men, and as the community grieves, 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:35.880 outrage grows. Last week, hundreds took the streets of Balaras 0:09:36.160 --> 0:09:37.079 demanding action. 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:45.680 The ABC's journalist at the summit, Leanne Wog, reported it's rare. 0:09:45.520 --> 0:09:48.920 For judicial leaders to speak out publicly on any topic. 0:09:49.280 --> 0:09:52.160 Today's round table is a clear sign of the crisis 0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:56.199 facing Australia amid surging levels of family violence and violence 0:09:56.240 --> 0:09:56.839 against women. 0:09:57.400 --> 0:09:59.800 A call to action for a nation in mourning. 0:10:01.320 --> 0:10:05.160 My friend and colleague Claire Harvey is regularly reporting and 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:09.920 analyzing policy and cases concerning domestic violence. 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:19.040 From The Australian. Here's what's on the front coming up. 0:10:19.040 --> 0:10:22.800 Why domestic violence has suddenly rocketed to national attention. The 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:26.920 Australian spent decades leading the conversation on domestic violence, coercive 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:30.480 control and the safety of women. Domestic violence now takes 0:10:30.559 --> 0:10:33.839 up well over half police time, but there are deep 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:37.920 flaws in the systems of prosecution and protection. Sarah Eisen 0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:39.959 is a political reporter with The Australian. 0:10:40.679 --> 0:10:44.079 We've had twenty seven murders of women in the first 0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:46.640 four months of twenty twenty four. There's never been as 0:10:46.640 --> 0:10:48.400 many women killed in the first four months of. 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:49.480 Any year ever. 0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:53.000 There's a real concern that the national plant and violence 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:55.760 against women and children just isn't really working. 0:10:56.520 --> 0:10:57.360 Say it was. 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:03.480 At one of the rallies on the lawn in front 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:07.199 of Parliament House in Canberra. Prime Minister Anthony Alberanesi took 0:11:07.280 --> 0:11:14.320 the microphone. 0:11:11.160 --> 0:11:15.000 To the mind that governments of all levels must do better. 0:11:15.840 --> 0:11:20.960 The declaration was met with cheers, jeers and tears. Victims 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:24.480 can obtain apprehended violence orders, but offenders can ignore them 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:28.839 if they're determined enough. Police can arrest perpetrators, but magistrates 0:11:28.840 --> 0:11:31.839 can grant them bail, or they can serve light sentences, 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:34.439 which leaves victims doubly vulnerable. 0:11:57.360 --> 0:12:00.720 In my conversations with Madison Walsh, who was born a 0:12:00.840 --> 0:12:05.000 decade after her blood relation Bromwin disappeared, we kick around 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:06.640 ideas and angles. 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:11.880 It helps to share. So, Maddie a couple of things 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:12.640 I'd like you to do. 0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:19.440 Timelines are so important, definitely in cases like this. They 0:12:19.480 --> 0:12:23.600 help us understand what's going on, Who said, what, when, 0:12:23.679 --> 0:12:27.040 what happened. As you go through it, it'll become more 0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:27.720 and more detail. 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:32.600 Lynn's niece did a timeline years before I got involved 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:36.160 in the Teacher's pet She did this for the month 0:12:36.200 --> 0:12:38.640 of January because it was a crucial month leading up 0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:41.520 to when the disappeared. I remember talking to once to 0:12:41.559 --> 0:12:46.439 a great criminal lawyer, and he said timelines win cases. 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:51.000 Maddie has driven from the northern beaches of Sydney to 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:54.000 meet me at the home of Bromwin's brother Andy Reid 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:57.720 and his wife Michelle in the Shire near Qunella in 0:12:57.760 --> 0:13:01.439 the south. We are looking at the time John spent 0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:04.640 in the Shire after he arrived in the family sedan 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:08.440 on the morning of Monday May seventeen, nineteen ninety three, 0:13:08.600 --> 0:13:12.680 with the two children, Lauren and Crystal. They had driven 0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:16.280 through the night from Lennox. The children should have been 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:19.280 in school in Lenox, but instead they were in Sydney. 0:13:20.120 --> 0:13:24.040 According to John, Bronwin had told him on the Sunday night, 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:28.080 May sixteen that she needed a few days away, a 0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:28.880 short break. 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:32.040 They ended up staying with you for how long? 0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:38.320 Think about ten days? Yep, Because by then he kept stalling. 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:41.160 He kept stalling about going back, and we said, John, 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:42.840 the kids need to be back into school. 0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:44.760 I want you to take the kids back up. 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:49.480 By this stage, Andy knew that the authorized break in 0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:53.640 by Bromwin's neighbor Murray at the house at Sandstone Crescent 0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:57.720 had not provided clues to the whereabouts of Bromwin, and 0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:01.319 Bromwin hadn't turned up for work at Eden's takeaway on 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:06.079 Wednesday May nineteen. Where was he staying while his children 0:14:06.120 --> 0:14:06.720 were with you? 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:09.400 The first night he slept in our place. 0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:12.520 But on the Wednesday, when Bromin obviously didn't turn up 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:16.080 to the takeaway shop, he wasn't comfortable enough. He was 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:18.600 seeing the kids at our place, might have dinner with us, 0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:19.840 but then he go and sleep. 0:14:19.640 --> 0:14:20.280 At his parents. 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:24.560 And by very early in that next week, I'd made 0:14:24.600 --> 0:14:27.840 the decision that and I'd confronted him and said, either 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:30.520 I'm going to cradle a police station to report brom 0:14:30.520 --> 0:14:33.040 And missing now, or you pack the kids up, you 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:35.120 take them back home, and you report a missing. 0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:37.240 So which one is it? 0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:42.480 He opted said, I'll get the kids back up there, 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:44.520 get them back into school, and I'll go. 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:45.360 And report a missing. 0:14:45.600 --> 0:14:49.040 He went back to Ballina and he did report brom 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:51.240 And missing in late May. 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:54.680 Yes, in hindsight, there's no way in the world that 0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:57.440 I would have let John report her missing if I 0:14:57.560 --> 0:15:00.640 knew the ramifications that would lead me too. 0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:05.760 As Bromwin's next of kin, John Winfield was at a 0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:08.119 distinct advantage. 0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:09.800 The police policy. 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:12.600 At the time meant they dealt first and foremost with 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:16.480 next of kin of a missing person. In circumstances where 0:15:16.520 --> 0:15:19.920 the next of kin, for example, the husband should have 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:24.400 been a number one person of interest. When Lynne disappeared 0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:27.520 in nineteen eighty two from her house at Bayview on 0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:30.840 the Northern Beaches and from her two children. Her husband 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:35.360 Chris Dawson, was next of kin. Chris had reported Lynn 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:39.000 missing some five and a half weeks after she disappeared, 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:42.760 and even though Lynn's brother, Greg Simms was a police 0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:47.040 officer at the time, he was effectively excluded by police 0:15:47.200 --> 0:15:52.080 in the early years they deferred to Chris. The Northern 0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:55.880 Beaches cops told Greg that as his sister's husband was 0:15:55.920 --> 0:15:59.760 the next of kin, they would deal with him try 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:03.760 number of occasions sting out missing persons, and because I 0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:07.640 wasn't the next to king Chris Dawson was, they wouldn't. 0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:07.920 Tell me anything. 0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:11.880 Pass hands were tired, as well as Griggs, as well 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:15.200 as everybody's because she was classed as a missing person 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:16.600 and we were not next to kin. 0:16:18.000 --> 0:16:21.600 In this way, Lynn's killer got preferential treatment. 0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:25.160 Because at that stage I had to jump through that 0:16:25.240 --> 0:16:30.359 many hoops to be the person that was doing Bromwin's 0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:35.240 official next of kin on police records, it was just stonewalled, stonewalled, 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:37.240 stonewalled by John Winfield. 0:16:37.520 --> 0:16:39.960 I know you can't, we can't put Bromin's. 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:43.120 Picture on a milk carton because that'll upset the kids. 0:16:43.360 --> 0:16:45.480 Can't do this, that'll upset the kids. 0:16:46.320 --> 0:16:49.600 What do you recall about your contact with Detective discu It. 0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:59.960 I had several conversations with Detective chrome Discin, but knowing. 0:16:59.720 --> 0:17:03.080 What we know now, none of what they did earlier. 0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:04.720 The piece was very thorough. 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:07.040 John's the husband. 0:17:07.880 --> 0:17:12.119 He was having all the stay seven hundred kilometers away. 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:16.240 We're down here with two little kids. He's up there. 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:19.000 He had an answer for everything. 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:22.639 Did you say to Detective discon or any of the 0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:28.840 other officers in the weeks or even months after Browin disappeared. Look, 0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:32.240 I think that this could be foul play. 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:36.520 Yeah, I'd said to him straight out. I don't think 0:17:36.520 --> 0:17:40.400 this is right. I do not think this is right. 0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:43.840 This is so out of character of my sister. You 0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:44.919 need to investigate that. 0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:50.199 I have been reading the original police running sheets, a 0:17:50.200 --> 0:17:54.880 contemporaneous record kept by police which shows who was contacted, 0:17:54.880 --> 0:17:57.560 with a date and a brief summary for each entry. 0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:01.760 The running sheet shows that on May twenty eighth, nineteen 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:06.440 ninety three, the day after John Winfield reported Brodman missing, 0:18:06.920 --> 0:18:09.520 a police officer, Julie Donovan. 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:13.120 Spoke with doctor Chris Mitchell, who stated Winfield last saw 0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:17.119 him on May fourteenth, nineteen ninety three. Was aware of 0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:20.920 marriage problems, however, did not find Winfield to be depressed. 0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:25.359 Spoke with manager Peter Jacobson at Commonwealth Bank. Stated that 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:27.800 there was an account in the name of Bronwin Winfield 0:18:27.840 --> 0:18:31.879 in San Suzi that was receiving a family supplement. However, 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:34.199 up to date money had gone in from supplement but 0:18:34.520 --> 0:18:35.640 none taken out. 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:39.919 There is another entry for eleven am. On May thirty, 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:44.320 Denise Barnard and Deborah Hall attended the police station. 0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:48.520 Both girls stated very much out of character for Winfield 0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:53.359 to leave children. Hall informs that on May fourteen, Winfield 0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:56.359 started to move back into house at Sandstone Crescent. 0:18:57.640 --> 0:19:01.040 The entry shows that deb Hall discovered those two police 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:05.440 what John had told deb that John and Romlan had 0:19:05.480 --> 0:19:09.920 an altercation on the Sunday evening May sixteenth, when John 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:13.960 arrived at the house. That's the word in the police 0:19:14.000 --> 0:19:20.240 document from nineteen ninety three, altercation. The Collins Dictionary defines 0:19:20.280 --> 0:19:25.960 an altercation as a noisy argument or disagreement. According to 0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:29.320 the running Sheets, police officer Julie Donovan spoke to the 0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:33.120 clairvoyant and tarot card reader who had been receiving visits 0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:36.920 from Bromlin, but he said he had not seen Bromlin 0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:41.960 since early May. On June one, Detective Graham Diskin's name 0:19:42.080 --> 0:19:44.400 features prominently in the running sheets. 0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:50.400 Two pm, visited Sandstone Crescent, spoke to husband Jonathan Winfield, 0:19:51.000 --> 0:19:55.680 inspected house and obtained letters written by missing woman. Questioned 0:19:55.760 --> 0:19:58.080 husband further and delved into past. 0:19:59.359 --> 0:20:03.280 It must have been a relatively brief inspection and conversation 0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:06.520 with the person who had a noisy disagreement with his 0:20:06.640 --> 0:20:09.600 wife and was the last person to see her alive, 0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:13.399 because at three pm Detective Discan was at the Rental 0:20:13.400 --> 0:20:16.800 Accommodation in Byron Street, where he talked to the owner, 0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:21.320 Shirley Taylor. Half an hour later, Detective Sergeant Discan went 0:20:21.400 --> 0:20:24.560 to the Ballina Taxi Service depot to see if Broman 0:20:24.640 --> 0:20:28.560 had possibly traveled out of town in a cab. The 0:20:28.600 --> 0:20:32.800 next day, June two, he contacted Australian Federal Police, who 0:20:32.840 --> 0:20:35.800 told him Broman had not held an Australian or New 0:20:35.920 --> 0:20:39.760 Zealand passport since nineteen eighty and he was advised that 0:20:39.800 --> 0:20:44.640 Broman had not applied to travel overseas. Graham Diskin then 0:20:44.760 --> 0:20:49.360 contacted Telecom, which was the name then for the telecommunications 0:20:49.400 --> 0:20:51.680 company now known as Telstra. 0:20:51.960 --> 0:20:56.120 To obtain phone usage at home. Since sixteen May nineteen ninety. 0:20:55.840 --> 0:21:00.560 Three, he reported that there were three relevant long distance 0:21:00.680 --> 0:21:05.520 or meeted telephone calls. His records do not indicate any 0:21:05.680 --> 0:21:10.199 reference to local calls. The first long distance call was 0:21:10.240 --> 0:21:13.480 made at six point fifty three pm on the Sunday 0:21:13.560 --> 0:21:17.000 and it was to John's daughter Jody Winfield in Sydney. 0:21:17.680 --> 0:21:21.000 The second was just thirteen minutes later, at seven oh 0:21:21.040 --> 0:21:24.199 six pm, and it was to John's brother Peter Winfield 0:21:24.280 --> 0:21:28.160 in Sydney. It seems that John was letting family members 0:21:28.200 --> 0:21:31.440 know that he had arrived safely after the flight from Sydney. 0:21:32.400 --> 0:21:36.639 The third number, however, is a curious one. In the 0:21:36.680 --> 0:21:40.879 official police running sheet, Detective Sergeant Graham Diskin has reported 0:21:40.920 --> 0:21:44.320 that this number was called at two thirteen in the morning, 0:21:44.880 --> 0:21:48.080 and that was the morning of May seventeen, a Monday. 0:21:49.000 --> 0:21:51.840 It is a strange time for someone to be making 0:21:51.920 --> 0:21:56.160 a telephone call. Remember, neither John nor Broman was using 0:21:56.200 --> 0:22:00.640 mobile telephones then. All these calls were made from fixed 0:22:00.840 --> 0:22:05.720 home phones or landlines. Now John Winfield must have been 0:22:05.840 --> 0:22:08.479 well on the way to Sydney in the early hours 0:22:08.520 --> 0:22:12.600 of Monday morning. But the actual number which police claimed 0:22:12.800 --> 0:22:16.240 was called from the house at Sandstone Crescent at two 0:22:16.320 --> 0:22:21.800 thirteen am was also unusual. It started with zero zero 0:22:22.040 --> 0:22:25.040 five five, and that meant it wasn't a normal long 0:22:25.080 --> 0:22:29.920 distance call, it was some kind of service. Graham Diskin 0:22:30.040 --> 0:22:33.920 compared the number with other numbers he saw on uncollected 0:22:34.000 --> 0:22:38.440 mail enclosing Roman's telephone bill for the separate Byron Street 0:22:38.560 --> 0:22:42.800 rental accommodation and here's what the detective reported in the 0:22:42.880 --> 0:22:46.000 running sheet for June two, nineteen ninety three. 0:22:47.119 --> 0:22:49.800 Account shows that missing person had called the double zero 0:22:49.880 --> 0:22:52.719 double five numbers on a number of occasions prior to 0:22:52.800 --> 0:22:56.560 moving back to the family home. Unusual that the husband 0:22:56.560 --> 0:22:59.160 stated that he left the family home at eleven pm 0:22:59.320 --> 0:23:02.600 on May sixth, nineteen ninety three, and a double zero 0:23:02.680 --> 0:23:05.960 double five number was called at two thirteen am on 0:23:06.040 --> 0:23:10.359 May seventeen, nineteen ninety three. It may well be that 0:23:10.359 --> 0:23:12.879 the missing person has returned to the family home after 0:23:12.920 --> 0:23:16.680 the husband left allegedly at eleven pm, But. 0:23:16.720 --> 0:23:22.680 Detective Sergeant Diskan had misunderstood something very fundamental. He made 0:23:22.680 --> 0:23:27.719 an error with significant ramifications. Contrary to what he wrote 0:23:27.760 --> 0:23:31.640 down in the police running sheet. The information obtained from 0:23:31.680 --> 0:23:35.359 the telephone company by the detective does not show that 0:23:35.440 --> 0:23:38.840 a call from the home phone at Sandstone Crescent was 0:23:38.880 --> 0:23:44.480 made at two thirteen am on Monday May seventeen. In fact, 0:23:44.880 --> 0:23:48.440 it shows that the call was made at two thirteen 0:23:48.720 --> 0:23:53.399 pm in the afternoon of Sunday the day before, and 0:23:53.440 --> 0:23:57.359 there was no mystery about it. Bromwin or someone else 0:23:57.440 --> 0:23:59.800 it could have been Crystal had called the number to 0:23:59.840 --> 0:24:04.480 get the results for the weekly lotto draw. Here's Michelle 0:24:04.520 --> 0:24:06.520 Reid with her husband Andy. 0:24:07.640 --> 0:24:10.200 They told us that they checked the phone records and 0:24:10.680 --> 0:24:13.240 someone had been at the house after John had left. 0:24:13.880 --> 0:24:17.720 They'd been making phone calls to some doub double five 0:24:17.840 --> 0:24:21.239 number which ended up the police couldn't check it up 0:24:21.320 --> 0:24:24.040 because those numbers were banned from. 0:24:23.920 --> 0:24:24.560 The police station. 0:24:24.640 --> 0:24:27.080 Because someone at the police station had been ringing sex 0:24:27.160 --> 0:24:30.720